OK, so a new client has a very puzzling problem. Their doorbell stopped
working. I went underneath the house to find the transformer and wiring:
found *nothing*. Nothing in that crawlspace but phone wiring and some
(new, Romex) power cabling. Oh, and some old thermostat wiring, but
that's it.

The house is wood-framed stucco, built somewhere in the 1920s-30s, very
standard construction, mostly one story but with several levels (on a
hillslope). It's a quality-built home with nice architectural features.

I looked inside the one crawlspace opening into the attic, which is at
the back of the house: it goes basically nowhere. There's a wall
directly in front of the opening that prevents me from getting into the
section of roof where the doorbell wiring might be. The rest of the
crawlspace is too small to even get into, unless one is a midget.

Which leads me to believe that, since I cannot see *any* wiring below
the house, everything associated with the doorbell--transformer and
wiring--must be above the ceiling of the living room, which is where the
front door and the doorbell are. But there is absolutely no access into
this space, either inside our outside the house. The closet right behind
the doorbell has nothing in it, except the alarm system which was added
a long time after the house was built. The doorbell itself is original,
so I'm assuming the doorbell wiring was installed when the house was built.

I always thought that doorbell transformers needed to be accessible,
both for safety reasons and for possible replacement. But if this is
true, this one can never be replaced, at least without tearing open the
ceiling.

I'm advising the client to just get a wireless doorbell for now. But
this bugs me. Has anyone else here run into a similar situation?


--
The fashion in killing has an insouciant, flirty style this spring,
with the flaunting of well-defined muscle, wrapped in flags.

- Comment from an article on Antiwar.com (http://antiwar.com)

David Nebenzahl wrote:
....
Which leads me to believe that, since I cannot see *any* wiring below
the house, everything associated with the doorbell--transformer and
wiring--must be above the ceiling of the living room, which is where the
front door and the doorbell are. But there is absolutely no access into
this space, either inside our outside the house. The closet right behind
the doorbell has nothing in it, except the alarm system which was added
a long time after the house was built. The doorbell itself is original,
so I'm assuming the doorbell wiring was installed when the house was built.

I always thought that doorbell transformers needed to be accessible,
both for safety reasons and for possible replacement. But if this is
true, this one can never be replaced, at least without tearing open the
ceiling.

I'm advising the client to just get a wireless doorbell for now. But
this bugs me. Has anyone else here run into a similar situation?

I've run into them being in a cavity in the wall behind the interior
box. It's also quite possible somebody closed up an access point over
the years, of course.

A) Did you verify it isn't just the push-button failed?

B) Did you verify there isn't power?

C) Did you look to see where the wires go behind the unit (assuming that
doesn't show you the xfr in the wall behind it?

D) Whatever would occur onsite that doesn't in front of crt...

--

On 9/22/2010 12:42 PM A. Baum spake thus:

On Wed, 22 Sep 2010 12:19:01 -0700, David Nebenzahl wrote:

OK, so a new client has a very puzzling problem. Their doorbell stopped
working. I went underneath the house to find the transformer and wiring:
found *nothing*. Nothing in that crawlspace but phone wiring and some
(new, Romex) power cabling. Oh, and some old thermostat wiring, but
that's it.

[snip]

I always thought that doorbell transformers needed to be accessible,
both for safety reasons and for possible replacement. But if this is
true, this one can never be replaced, at least without tearing open the
ceiling.

I'm advising the client to just get a wireless doorbell for now. But
this bugs me. Has anyone else here run into a similar situation?

I would assume the electrical code wasn't too stringent back in the 20's
- 30's. Not a surprise to me that the transformer could have been
entrapped forever where it couldn't be located, possibly unintentionally.
Should be a snap for the average handyman to redo it with an accessible
power source.

Please explain; what do you mean by "accessible power source"?

Sure, I have easy access to power underneath the house; that isn't the
problem. The problem is gaining access to the doorbell button (and the
doorbell, which the client likes and would like to keep). I don't see
any way of accessing either of these two existing devices without
opening up walls, which the client would rather not do. Hard to fish
wires when you can't get inside the walls ...


--
The fashion in killing has an insouciant, flirty style this spring,
with the flaunting of well-defined muscle, wrapped in flags.

- Comment from an article on Antiwar.com (http://antiwar.com)

David Nebenzahl wrote the following:
OK, so a new client has a very puzzling problem. Their doorbell
stopped working. I went underneath the house to find the transformer
and wiring: found *nothing*. Nothing in that crawlspace but phone
wiring and some (new, Romex) power cabling. Oh, and some old
thermostat wiring, but that's it.

The house is wood-framed stucco, built somewhere in the 1920s-30s,
very standard construction, mostly one story but with several levels
(on a hillslope). It's a quality-built home with nice architectural
features.

I looked inside the one crawlspace opening into the attic, which is at
the back of the house: it goes basically nowhere. There's a wall
directly in front of the opening that prevents me from getting into
the section of roof where the doorbell wiring might be. The rest of
the crawlspace is too small to even get into, unless one is a midget.

Which leads me to believe that, since I cannot see *any* wiring below
the house, everything associated with the doorbell--transformer and
wiring--must be above the ceiling of the living room, which is where
the front door and the doorbell are. But there is absolutely no access
into this space, either inside our outside the house. The closet right
behind the doorbell has nothing in it, except the alarm system which
was added a long time after the house was built. The doorbell itself
is original, so I'm assuming the doorbell wiring was installed when
the house was built.

I always thought that doorbell transformers needed to be accessible,
both for safety reasons and for possible replacement. But if this is
true, this one can never be replaced, at least without tearing open
the ceiling.

I'm advising the client to just get a wireless doorbell for now. But
this bugs me. Has anyone else here run into a similar situation?


My doorbell transformer is mounted below the main breaker box in the
basement, but my house is 50-60 years younger.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

On 9/22/2010 12:57 PM willshak spake thus:

David Nebenzahl wrote the following:

I always thought that doorbell transformers needed to be
accessible, both for safety reasons and for possible replacement.
But if this is true, this one can never be replaced, at least
without tearing open the ceiling.

I'm advising the client to just get a wireless doorbell for now.
But this bugs me. Has anyone else here run into a similar
situation?

My doorbell transformer is mounted below the main breaker box in the
basement, but my house is 50-60 years younger.

Well, that's where I would expect to find it.

My experience with houses of this age is that the transformer is usually
under the house (or possibly inside the house), either near where the
doorbell and chime are, or near the fusebox/breaker panel with the wires
from those devices brought out to it.


--
The fashion in killing has an insouciant, flirty style this spring,
with the flaunting of well-defined muscle, wrapped in flags.

- Comment from an article on Antiwar.com (http://antiwar.com)

"David Nebenzahl" wrote in message
OK, so a new client has a very puzzling problem. Their doorbell stopped
working. I went underneath the house to find the transformer and wiring:
found *nothing*.

Look in every closet all around.

Look in kitchen cabinets.

Look around fuse boxes.

Pull out doorbell. It could even be a 120v doorbell, so turn off electricity
first to be safe. See where the wires are heading if you can.

Also they sell inductive wire tracing tools like these...
(Trace where wires in wall/ceiling go)
http://www.professionalequipment.com...r/?source=pegs

On 9/22/2010 1:35 PM Bill spake thus:

"David Nebenzahl" wrote in message ...

OK, so a new client has a very puzzling problem. Their doorbell
stopped working. I went underneath the house to find the
transformer and wiring: found *nothing*.

Look in every closet all around.

Did that. Nothing.

Look in kitchen cabinets.

Did that. Nothing.

Look around fuse boxes.

Did that. Nothing.

Pull out doorbell. It could even be a 120v doorbell, so turn off electricity
first to be safe. See where the wires are heading if you can.

Nope; it's a standard 18-24 v. doorbell. I've never even *seen* a 120 v.
doorbell chime. They may exist, but they ain't common.


--
The fashion in killing has an insouciant, flirty style this spring,
with the flaunting of well-defined muscle, wrapped in flags.

- Comment from an article on Antiwar.com (http://antiwar.com)

David Nebenzahl wrote:
On 9/22/2010 1:35 PM Bill spake thus:
....

Pull out doorbell. It could even be a 120v doorbell, so turn off
electricity first to be safe. See where the wires are heading if you can.

Nope; it's a standard 18-24 v. doorbell. I've never even *seen* a 120 v.
doorbell chime. They may exist, but they ain't common.
....

What about other question which has been asked several times; no
response??? What's the chimes box on this set like, etc., ...

Any place in any of the previously mentioned cubbyholes/closets/etc. w/
wallpaper over void or other similar hiding hole?

Nothing on the diagnostic test results, either...does it chime given
external supply voltage?

--

David Nebenzahl wrote the following:
On 9/22/2010 12:57 PM willshak spake thus:

David Nebenzahl wrote the following:

I always thought that doorbell transformers needed to be
accessible, both for safety reasons and for possible replacement.
But if this is true, this one can never be replaced, at least
without tearing open the ceiling.

I'm advising the client to just get a wireless doorbell for now.
But this bugs me. Has anyone else here run into a similar
situation?

My doorbell transformer is mounted below the main breaker box in the
basement, but my house is 50-60 years younger.

Well, that's where I would expect to find it.

My experience with houses of this age is that the transformer is
usually under the house (or possibly inside the house), either near
where the doorbell and chime are, or near the fusebox/breaker panel
with the wires from those devices brought out to it.


Stuck in a wall next to an outside light switch or nearby outlet?


--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

"dpb" wrote in message
...
David Nebenzahl wrote:
...
Which leads me to believe that, since I cannot see *any* wiring below the
house, everything associated with the doorbell--transformer and
wiring--must be above the ceiling of the living room, which is where the
front door and the doorbell are. But there is absolutely no access into
this space, either inside our outside the house. The closet right behind
the doorbell has nothing in it, except the alarm system which was added a
long time after the house was built. The doorbell itself is original, so
I'm assuming the doorbell wiring was installed when the house was built.

I always thought that doorbell transformers needed to be accessible, both
for safety reasons and for possible replacement. But if this is true,
this one can never be replaced, at least without tearing open the
ceiling.

I'm advising the client to just get a wireless doorbell for now. But this
bugs me. Has anyone else here run into a similar situation?

I've run into them being in a cavity in the wall behind the interior box.
It's also quite possible somebody closed up an access point over the
years, of course.

A) Did you verify it isn't just the push-button failed?

B) Did you verify there isn't power?

C) Did you look to see where the wires go behind the unit (assuming that
doesn't show you the xfr in the wall behind it?

D) Whatever would occur onsite that doesn't in front of crt...

--And after doing all of the above to determine that you actually have a
transformer problem. I would start by looking for it, attached to the
circuit breaker panel. That's the most likely place to find it, sometimes
it's inside the box, although it shouldn't be, but if it's not attached to
the outside, it's worth a look

On Wed, 22 Sep 2010 13:47:08 -0700, David Nebenzahl
wrote:

On 9/22/2010 1:35 PM Bill spake thus:

"David Nebenzahl" wrote in message ...

OK, so a new client has a very puzzling problem. Their doorbell
stopped working. I went underneath the house to find the
transformer and wiring: found *nothing*.

Look in every closet all around.

Did that. Nothing.

Look in kitchen cabinets.

Did that. Nothing.

Look around fuse boxes.

Did that. Nothing.

Pull out doorbell. It could even be a 120v doorbell, so turn off electricity
first to be safe. See where the wires are heading if you can.

Nope; it's a standard 18-24 v. doorbell. I've never even *seen* a 120 v.
doorbell chime. They may exist, but they ain't common.
I've seen plent of that approxemate age where the transformer is on
the back of the chime - 120 volts to the chime (xformer) and 16-24 to
the button

On 9/22/2010 4:47 PM, David Nebenzahl wrote:
On 9/22/2010 1:35 PM Bill spake thus:

"David Nebenzahl" wrote in message ...

OK, so a new client has a very puzzling problem. Their doorbell
stopped working. I went underneath the house to find the
transformer and wiring: found *nothing*.

Look in every closet all around.

Did that. Nothing.

Look in kitchen cabinets.

Did that. Nothing.

Look around fuse boxes.

Did that. Nothing.

Pull out doorbell. It could even be a 120v doorbell, so turn off
electricity first to be safe. See where the wires are heading if you can.

Nope; it's a standard 18-24 v. doorbell. I've never even *seen* a 120 v.
doorbell chime. They may exist, but they ain't common.


In this house, I found the doorbell transformer hung off the side of a
junction box in attic, buried under loose-fill insulation.

Just sayin'

--
aem sends...

In article ,
dpb wrote:

David Nebenzahl wrote:
On 9/22/2010 1:35 PM Bill spake thus:
...

Pull out doorbell. It could even be a 120v doorbell, so turn off
electricity first to be safe. See where the wires are heading if you can.

Nope; it's a standard 18-24 v. doorbell. I've never even *seen* a 120 v.
doorbell chime. They may exist, but they ain't common.
...

What about other question which has been asked several times; no
response??? What's the chimes box on this set like, etc., ...

Any place in any of the previously mentioned cubbyholes/closets/etc. w/
wallpaper over void or other similar hiding hole?

Nothing on the diagnostic test results, either...does it chime given
external supply voltage?

--

In my c 1927 house, the doorbell transformer is actually within the fuse
box... you have to remove the inner cover to gain access. The furnace
transformer is in there as well.

A neighbor has the same setup, only someone drilled a hole through the
exposed edge of her fuse box, and installed a toggle switch controlling
the transformers 120VAC 'hot' wire. I'm going to do mine like that...
it's on my short list. (Both of our fuse boxes are located in the house.)

Also going to install a second switch to chop the furnace transformer.
It's huge; haven't looked, but judging by how warm it gets, I bet it
draws on the order 15W. I figure why should I continuously energize it
when it's only intermittently needed 2 to 3 months a year. (It has it's
own fuse, and for the last 25 years I've only screwed it in for cold
weather, but's it's kind of a nuisance to do)

On Wed, 22 Sep 2010 19:06:50 -0400, aemeijers wrote:

[snip]

In this house, I found the doorbell transformer hung off the side of a
junction box in attic, buried under loose-fill insulation.

Just sayin'

Mine is in the furnace room.

I know a neighbor who gave up trying to find his, and installed a new one.

--
94 days until The winter celebration (Saturday December 25, 2010
12:00:00 AM).

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us

"DISCLAIMER: If you find a posting or message from me offensive,
inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it. If you don't know how to
ignore a posting, complain to me and I will demonstrate."

"David Nebenzahl" wrote in message
.com...
OK, so a new client has a very puzzling problem. Their doorbell stopped
working. I went underneath the house to find the transformer and wiring:
found *nothing*. Nothing in that crawlspace but phone wiring and some
(new, Romex) power cabling. Oh, and some old thermostat wiring, but that's
it.
SNIP

David.. Get access to the push button. Use AC voltmeter. Read across the
button terminals. Should show voltage because you are reading through the
complete circuit. If there is voltage, shorting the wires together will
operate the bell. If voltage is there and bell won't work, bell is bad. If
bell will work, button is bad. If no voltage then Bell or transformer or
wiring is bad. WW

On Sep 22, 3:19*pm, David Nebenzahl wrote:
OK, so a new client has a very puzzling problem. Their doorbell stopped
working. I went underneath the house to find the transformer and wiring:
found *nothing*. Nothing in that crawlspace but phone wiring and some
(new, Romex) power cabling. Oh, and some old thermostat wiring, but
that's it.

The house is wood-framed stucco, built somewhere in the 1920s-30s, very
standard construction, mostly one story but with several levels (on a
hillslope). It's a quality-built home with nice architectural features.

I looked inside the one crawlspace opening into the attic, which is at
the back of the house: it goes basically nowhere. There's a wall
directly in front of the opening that prevents me from getting into the
section of roof where the doorbell wiring might be. The rest of the
crawlspace is too small to even get into, unless one is a midget.

Which leads me to believe that, since I cannot see *any* wiring below
the house, everything associated with the doorbell--transformer and
wiring--must be above the ceiling of the living room, which is where the
front door and the doorbell are. But there is absolutely no access into
this space, either inside our outside the house. The closet right behind
the doorbell has nothing in it, except the alarm system which was added
a long time after the house was built. The doorbell itself is original,
so I'm assuming the doorbell wiring was installed when the house was built.

"Mark Lloyd" wrote in message
om...
On Wed, 22 Sep 2010 19:06:50 -0400, aemeijers wrote:

[snip]

In this house, I found the doorbell transformer hung off the side of a
junction box in attic, buried under loose-fill insulation.

Just sayin'

Mine is in the furnace room.

I know a neighbor who gave up trying to find his, and installed a new one.

I have a house a just few years newer. My doorbell transformer was attached
to a junction box of a pull chain light in the basement between the chime
box (above the door to the basement stairs) and the doorbell button. I'll
bet yours is similarly located - the first available junction box between
the chime and button where a transformer could be hung. I realize you have
no basement, but I'd still concentrate my efforts in the zone between the
button and the chime. I'd also use the fox and hound set Salty and others
mentioned. I use it at least once a year in this old house, sometimes quite
a bit more.

--
Bobby G.

On Thu, 23 Sep 2010 07:29:31 -0400, "Robert Green"
wrote:

"Mark Lloyd" wrote in message
. com...
On Wed, 22 Sep 2010 19:06:50 -0400, aemeijers wrote:

[snip]

In this house, I found the doorbell transformer hung off the side of a
junction box in attic, buried under loose-fill insulation.

Just sayin'

Mine is in the furnace room.

I know a neighbor who gave up trying to find his, and installed a new one.

I have a house a just few years newer. My doorbell transformer was attached
to a junction box of a pull chain light in the basement between the chime
box (above the door to the basement stairs) and the doorbell button. I'll
bet yours is similarly located - the first available junction box between
the chime and button where a transformer could be hung. I realize you have
no basement, but I'd still concentrate my efforts in the zone between the
button and the chime. I'd also use the fox and hound set Salty and others
mentioned. I use it at least once a year in this old house, sometimes quite
a bit more.

Just a couple of thoughts. I have seen the whole top of small closets
push up to access the attic. Usually tongue and groove siding was used
around here so it is easy to spot..
Also look inside the electric panel. It is not proper to have the
transformer in the panel but it was done.
--
Mr.E