On 9/13/2010 1:47 PM, millinghill wrote:
Dear Readers,
I'm getting contractors' quotes on replacing my existing main
electrical panel (The subpanel for the house distribution is circuit
breakers, but the main panel is old 100amp fuse block, not circuit
breakers.). Some of them are saying that replacement of the line from
the power company to my main box must be done with such a replacement,
and that I should upgrade to 200AMP service while I'm at it.
I've been just fine with 100AMP service. My house is 1500sqft. I ran
calcs (following guidelines in an electrical load design book) that
showed even if I "finished" my basement and had window air
conditioners in most rooms, and the electric stove blaring, I would
not exceed 100AMPS. I can't imagine I will ever install central air,
and my property can't fit a pool. So, my opinion is I have no big
electric loads in the foreseeable future.

Question #1: to replace main panel, is it standard procedure to
replace service line drop?
Question #2: If #1 is NOT true, should I upgrade to 200AMP service now
just because they're doing the work right there? Is there a realistic
benefit other than looking good on a real estate listing when I sell
in 20years?

I was looking at this when I was considering adding solar. I have a 100
AMP drop that is really maxed out because of the pool pump and the A/C
both of which were added by previous owners after the house was built.

The problem with 200 AMPS is that the panel is much larger and would not
fit into the existing opening. However there were 150 AMP panels that
would work and that would be sufficient. I've done nothing so far, but
I'd probably go the 150 AMP route as it would be less disruptive and for
a 2000 square foot house with a gas dryer, gas furnace, and gas water
heater, 150 amps is sufficient.

SMS wrote:
On 9/13/2010 1:47 PM, millinghill wrote:
Dear Readers,
I'm getting contractors' quotes on replacing my existing main
electrical panel (The subpanel for the house distribution is circuit
breakers, but the main panel is old 100amp fuse block, not circuit
breakers.). Some of them are saying that replacement of the line
from the power company to my main box must be done with such a
replacement, and that I should upgrade to 200AMP service while I'm
at it. I've been just fine with 100AMP service. My house is 1500sqft. I
ran calcs (following guidelines in an electrical load design book)
that showed even if I "finished" my basement and had window air
conditioners in most rooms, and the electric stove blaring, I would
not exceed 100AMPS. I can't imagine I will ever install central air,
and my property can't fit a pool. So, my opinion is I have no big
electric loads in the foreseeable future.

Question #1: to replace main panel, is it standard procedure to
replace service line drop?
Question #2: If #1 is NOT true, should I upgrade to 200AMP service
now just because they're doing the work right there? Is there a
realistic benefit other than looking good on a real estate listing
when I sell in 20years?

I was looking at this when I was considering adding solar. I have a
100 AMP drop that is really maxed out because of the pool pump and
the A/C both of which were added by previous owners after the house
was built.
The problem with 200 AMPS is that the panel is much larger and would
not fit into the existing opening. However there were 150 AMP panels
that would work and that would be sufficient. I've done nothing so
far, but I'd probably go the 150 AMP route as it would be less
disruptive and for a 2000 square foot house with a gas dryer, gas
furnace, and gas water heater, 150 amps is sufficient.

for you. for someone else? maybe not. i have 200a service and all gas
appliances along with a solar system, and wish i had 300a and a larger box
(it's full and has 40 slots). i have 2 pottery kilns at 50a each that i
can't run at the same time, a large compressor for sandblasting, and i'd
like to upgrade to a 100a kiln.

I was looking at this when I was considering adding solar. I have a 100
AMP drop that is really maxed out because of the pool pump and the A/C
both of which were added by previous owners after the house was built.

The problem with 200 AMPS is that the panel is much larger and would not
fit into the existing opening. However there were 150 AMP panels that
would work and that would be sufficient. I've done nothing so far, but I'd
probably go the 150 AMP route as it would be less disruptive and for a
2000 square foot house with a gas dryer, gas furnace, and gas water
heater, 150 amps is sufficient.


I did the same thing. We are replacing our 100 amp fuse panel with 16
circuits to a 100 amp 32/64 panel. We are converting the 40 amp stove to a
gas stove/oven that draws 5 amps for the convection motor and we are
converting the 20 amp electric dryer to a gas dryer that draw 5 amps for the
motor. We are adding in a 15 amp dishwasher but that leaves us with a gain
of 35 amps.

Note we have gas heat and gas hot water.

For many years this house was running near max with no issues. Now we'll be
at 75% on a hectic day:

Maybe you guys can tell me if I'm correct in my assumption: Worst case
scenario now: gas dryer (5A) + gas oven (5A) + washing machine (9A) +
dishwasher (15 A) + a/c (20 A) + pool motor (7.5 A) + microwave and range
hood together(15 A) would equal 75 amp draw. That leaves 25 amps for lights,
tevee, computer, or toaster etc.

Worst case scenario with previous owners: Elect Dryer (20A) + Electric
oven/stove (40 A) + a/c (20A) + pool motor (7.5) = 87.5 Amp draw on a 42
year old cartigage fuse box. Turn on a microwave and one other motor
appliance and you're exceeding 100 amps without factoring in lights etc.

For us the cost of upgrading to 200A was $600. We have a 1700 sq ft home
but no kids yet. When our kids become teenagers we'll have to upgrade then
I would think.

Since we are new homeowners money is thin so $600 is pretty dear to us. My
main concern was the ability to add more circuits. I had three electricians
quote me on the panel change and they all agreed with my reasoning to save
the $600 and stay with 100 Amp service.


Hope I made the right decision.

The Henchman wrote:
I was looking at this when I was considering adding solar. I have a
100 AMP drop that is really maxed out because of the pool pump and
the A/C both of which were added by previous owners after the house
was built. The problem with 200 AMPS is that the panel is much larger and
would
not fit into the existing opening. However there were 150 AMP panels
that would work and that would be sufficient. I've done nothing so
far, but I'd probably go the 150 AMP route as it would be less
disruptive and for a 2000 square foot house with a gas dryer, gas
furnace, and gas water heater, 150 amps is sufficient.


I did the same thing. We are replacing our 100 amp fuse panel with
16 circuits to a 100 amp 32/64 panel. We are converting the 40 amp
stove to a gas stove/oven that draws 5 amps for the convection motor
and we are converting the 20 amp electric dryer to a gas dryer that
draw 5 amps for the motor. We are adding in a 15 amp dishwasher but
that leaves us with a gain of 35 amps.

Note we have gas heat and gas hot water.

For many years this house was running near max with no issues. Now
we'll be at 75% on a hectic day:

Maybe you guys can tell me if I'm correct in my assumption: Worst
case scenario now: gas dryer (5A) + gas oven (5A) + washing machine
(9A) + dishwasher (15 A) + a/c (20 A) + pool motor (7.5 A) +
microwave and range hood together(15 A) would equal 75 amp draw. That
leaves 25 amps for lights, tevee, computer, or toaster etc.

Worst case scenario with previous owners: Elect Dryer (20A) + Electric
oven/stove (40 A) + a/c (20A) + pool motor (7.5) = 87.5 Amp draw on a
42 year old cartigage fuse box. Turn on a microwave and one other
motor appliance and you're exceeding 100 amps without factoring in
lights etc.
For us the cost of upgrading to 200A was $600. We have a 1700 sq ft
home but no kids yet. When our kids become teenagers we'll have to
upgrade then I would think.

Since we are new homeowners money is thin so $600 is pretty dear to
us. My main concern was the ability to add more circuits. I had
three electricians quote me on the panel change and they all agreed
with my reasoning to save the $600 and stay with 100 Amp service.


Hope I made the right decision.

Why was the cost to upgrade to 200 Amps $600?

The difference in price between a 100 Amp circuit breaker box and one that
can handle 200 Amps is at most $30.00.

"The Henchman" wrote


I did the same thing. We are replacing our 100 amp fuse panel with 16
circuits to a 100 amp 32/64 panel. We are converting the 40 amp stove to
a gas stove/oven that draws 5 amps for the convection motor and we are
converting the 20 amp electric dryer to a gas dryer that draw 5 amps for
the motor. We are adding in a 15 amp dishwasher but that leaves us with a
gain of 35 amps.

Note we have gas heat and gas hot water.

For many years this house was running near max with no issues. Now we'll
be at 75% on a hectic day:

Since we are new homeowners money is thin so $600 is pretty dear to us.
My main concern was the ability to add more circuits. I had three
electricians quote me on the panel change and they all agreed with my
reasoning to save the $600 and stay with 100 Amp service.


Hope I made the right decision.

I have a gas cooking, oil heat, but an electric dryer. I've been living
comfortably with 100A service for 30 years. That includes running up to
four room ACs in the summer time. I see no need to rush to 200A at all.

On 9/14/2010 7:57 PM, The Henchman wrote:


I was looking at this when I was considering adding solar. I have a
100 AMP drop that is really maxed out because of the pool pump and the
A/C both of which were added by previous owners after the house was
built.

The problem with 200 AMPS is that the panel is much larger and would
not fit into the existing opening. However there were 150 AMP panels
that would work and that would be sufficient. I've done nothing so
far, but I'd probably go the 150 AMP route as it would be less
disruptive and for a 2000 square foot house with a gas dryer, gas
furnace, and gas water heater, 150 amps is sufficient.


I did the same thing. We are replacing our 100 amp fuse panel with 16
circuits to a 100 amp 32/64 panel. We are converting the 40 amp stove to
a gas stove/oven that draws 5 amps for the convection motor and we are
converting the 20 amp electric dryer to a gas dryer that draw 5 amps for
the motor. We are adding in a 15 amp dishwasher but that leaves us with
a gain of 35 amps.

Note we have gas heat and gas hot water.

For many years this house was running near max with no issues. Now we'll
be at 75% on a hectic day:

Maybe you guys can tell me if I'm correct in my assumption: Worst case
scenario now: gas dryer (5A) + gas oven (5A) + washing machine (9A) +
dishwasher (15 A) + a/c (20 A) + pool motor (7.5 A) + microwave and
range hood together(15 A) would equal 75 amp draw. That leaves 25 amps
for lights, tevee, computer, or toaster etc.

Worst case scenario with previous owners: Elect Dryer (20A) + Electric
oven/stove (40 A) + a/c (20A) + pool motor (7.5) = 87.5 Amp draw on a 42
year old cartigage fuse box. Turn on a microwave and one other motor
appliance and you're exceeding 100 amps without factoring in lights etc.

For us the cost of upgrading to 200A was $600. We have a 1700 sq ft home
but no kids yet. When our kids become teenagers we'll have to upgrade
then I would think.

Since we are new homeowners money is thin so $600 is pretty dear to us.
My main concern was the ability to add more circuits. I had three
electricians quote me on the panel change and they all agreed with my
reasoning to save the $600 and stay with 100 Amp service.


Hope I made the right decision.

none of those things you detailed out pull as much as you estimated.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

wrote:
On Tue, 14 Sep 2010 20:39:48 -0500, "HeyBub"
wrote:

Why was the cost to upgrade to 200 Amps $600?

The difference in price between a 100 Amp circuit breaker box and
one that can handle 200 Amps is at most $30.00.

It's not just the box. If the OP was just changing the box, it would
only be $30 difference. He can put in a 100A breaker box using the
existing drop and cables from the head to the panel, because he
already has 100A service. If he was doing this job himself, his only
costs would be the box, breakers, and some connectors, clamps, and
misc odds and ends.

However if he upgrades to 200A, the entire service entrance stack
(conduit and cable) needs to be replaced, and likely the meter box
too. Plus the service drop from the pole needs heavier wire, and this
stuff is at least $3 a foot. These materials add up fast. Then
consider he is having the work done, not a DIY. An electrician who
charges $50 or more per hour can replace the box in 3 or 4 hours if
it's just a replacement breaker panel. But if they have to change the
service entrance and the power company has to change the drop, the
labor alone will take a full day if not more. 8 hours @ $50 is $400
alone.

You make several good points. Still, why not a 200 Amp box with a 100 Amp
drop?

When (and if) a future upgrade to an actual 200 Amp service takes place,
it's $30 now vs. $250 to swap out the box at the same time as the upgrade.

On Sep 14, 8:56*pm, "Ed Pawlowski" wrote:
"The Henchman" wrote





I did the same thing. * We are replacing our 100 amp fuse panel with 16
circuits to a 100 amp 32/64 panel. *We are converting the 40 amp stove to
a gas stove/oven that draws 5 amps for the convection motor and we are
converting the 20 amp electric dryer to a gas dryer that draw 5 amps for
the motor. *We are adding in a 15 amp dishwasher but that leaves us with a
gain of 35 amps.

Note we have gas heat and gas hot water.

For many years this house was running near max with no issues. *Now we'll
be at 75% on a hectic day:
Since we are new homeowners money is thin so $600 is pretty dear to us.
My main concern was the ability to add more circuits. *I had three
electricians quote me on the panel change and they all agreed with my
reasoning to save the $600 and stay with 100 Amp service.

Hope I made the right decision.

I have a gas cooking, oil heat, but an electric dryer. I've been living
comfortably with 100A service for 30 years. *That includes running up to
four room ACs in the summer time. I see no need to rush to 200A at all.

The question isn't "rushing out" to replace the panel, rather, the
panel *is* going to be replaced, what to replace it with? Often a
150A service can use the same drop as an existing 100A, so the cost
difference *is* the box. I'd certainly want the quotes both ways so
an informed decision can be made.

"Steve Barker" wrote in message
...
On 9/15/2010 7:58 PM, The Henchman wrote:


none of those things you detailed out pull as much as you estimated.

Exactly my thinking.

If a dishwasher is rated for 15 amps it doesn't use 15 amps through the
whole cycle. There are time where the motor turns then there are times
where the heating element heats so the amp pull is different and never
maxed out. Electric dryer is the same. The heating element cycles on and
off never drawing the full 20 amps for a sustained period of time.



MAYBE during heated dry it MIGHT, JUST MAYBE get to 8A or so on a
dishwasher.


But the code where I live still requests that new dishwasher installations
must be on a dedicated. Most 110 or 120 must be on dedicated lines
according to local code here. Fridges uses very little power except the
startup but boy the startup uses some power. New homes here put the fridge
on a separate circuit for that reason.

But back to the dishwasher I agree withy ou. it never hits 15 amps despite
what the label says.

On Sep 16, 9:08*pm, "The Henchman" wrote:
"Steve Barker" wrote in message

...



On 9/15/2010 7:58 PM, The Henchman wrote:

none of those things you detailed out pull as much as you estimated.

Exactly my thinking.

If a dishwasher is rated for 15 amps it doesn't use 15 amps through the
whole cycle. There are time where the motor turns then there are times
where the heating element heats so the amp pull is different and never
maxed out. Electric dryer is the same. The heating element cycles on and
off never drawing the full 20 amps for a sustained period of time.

MAYBE during heated dry it MIGHT, JUST MAYBE get to 8A or so on a
dishwasher.

But the code where I live still requests that new dishwasher installations
must be on a dedicated.

*Most 110 or 120 must be on dedicated lines according to local code here.. *

Huh? I don't understand the above sentence. "110 or 120"? "...on
dedicated lines"?

Fridges uses very little power except the
startup but boy the startup uses some power. *New homes here put the fridge
on a separate circuit for that reason.

No, the reason you put a 'fridge on a separate circuit is so you don't
lose refrigeration if there is a nuisance trip cause by something else
on the circuit.

But back to the dishwasher I agree withy ou. *it never hits 15 amps despite
what the label says.

Some can easily get close (within 30%), if there is a heating/drying
element.

"scghome" wrote
We have 100 Amp service and an old push panel breaker system. Electrician
# 1 said we are taxing the system and gave us an estimate of about $2100
to upgrade to 150Amp and including replacing the large wire that runs into
the house. We asked about 200 Amp and he felt we didn't need it.

Electrican # 2 just gave us an estimate for $6300 to upgrade to 200Amp
including replacing the outside wire. ( $6800 if we add an optional power
surge protecter at the box. I had heard there was not that much
difference ( ie a few hundred more) between upgrading to 150 versus 200
amp.

Now I'm questioning both estimates and whether we should go with 200 - it
sounds like we should but is $6300 reasonable?


I'd go with 200A and Electrician #1. The labor cost is about the same but
the wire for 200A is going to be heavier and more expensive. The 6800
sounds very high to me, but I've not seen the job either. The load you
potentially have warrants some additional service. Central AC with the dryer
and range going puts a good load. Toss in the dishwasher and water heater
and I can see you'd have problems.