I'm in the market for a 21" or 22" self-propelled, front drive,
walk-behind mower. The most commons engines are B&S and Honda, but
models with the Honda engine (like some in the Craftsman lineup) cost
about $60 more ($470 vs $410). I know this is a subjective question, but
is a Honda engine that much better?

Tecumseh seem to be out of favor. That's what's in my 3-year-old Toro.
Major complaint about the engine is the flimsy plastic tabs that hold
the fuel tank, and it seems noisy.

Reason I'm going for a new mower is a bad gear in the axle transmission
assembly. Nothing to do with the engine. Cost to replace the assembly is
$70, but I might also have problems right at both front drive wheels, so
I'm going with a new one.

Thanks,

Ray

On Fri, 27 Aug 2010 15:45:30 -0400, Ray K wrote:

I'm in the market for a 21" or 22" self-propelled, front drive,
walk-behind mower. The most commons engines are B&S and Honda, but
models with the Honda engine (like some in the Craftsman lineup) cost
about $60 more ($470 vs $410). I know this is a subjective question, but
is a Honda engine that much better?

Tecumseh seem to be out of favor. That's what's in my 3-year-old Toro.
Major complaint about the engine is the flimsy plastic tabs that hold
the fuel tank, and it seems noisy.

Reason I'm going for a new mower is a bad gear in the axle transmission
assembly. Nothing to do with the engine. Cost to replace the assembly is
$70, but I might also have problems right at both front drive wheels, so
I'm going with a new one.

Thanks,

Ray

The Honda motor is worth the extra cost as long as the rest of the mower
is up to snuff.

"Jeff The Drunk" wrote in message
news
The Honda motor is worth the extra cost as long as the rest of the mower
is up to snuff.

Agreed. The Toro-branded self-drive mower with Honda
engine has serious design flaws in the mower mechanism,
but the Honda motor reliability tends to make up for that
(or would, if only the manual showed users how to adjust
motor speed.)

--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

On Aug 27, 1:45*pm, Ray K wrote:
I'm in the market for a 21" or 22" self-propelled, front drive,
walk-behind mower. The most commons engines are B&S and Honda, but
models with the Honda engine (like some in the Craftsman lineup) cost
about $60 more ($470 vs $410). I know this is a subjective question, but
is a Honda engine that much better?

Tecumseh seem to be out of favor. That's what's in my 3-year-old Toro.
Major complaint about the engine is the flimsy plastic tabs that hold
the fuel tank, and it seems noisy.

Reason I'm going for a new mower is a bad gear in the axle transmission
assembly. Nothing to do with the engine. Cost to replace the assembly is
$70, but I might also have problems right at both front drive wheels, so
I'm going with a new one.

Thanks,

Ray

==
Don't know about Honda, but the B & D motors will usually last about
as long as it takes to save enough money for a replacement. Are there
any good motors out there? I am so tired of the crap that is
produced...do these people even test their products before dumping
them on the market? I am having trouble with my B & D 21 HP
horizontally opposed twin and am ready for another mower as well.
==

On Aug 27, 2:45*pm, Ray K wrote:
I'm in the market for a 21" or 22" self-propelled, front drive,
walk-behind mower. The most commons engines are B&S and Honda, but
models with the Honda engine (like some in the Craftsman lineup) cost
about $60 more ($470 vs $410). I know this is a subjective question, but
is a Honda engine that much better?

Tecumseh seem to be out of favor. That's what's in my 3-year-old Toro.
Major complaint about the engine is the flimsy plastic tabs that hold
the fuel tank, and it seems noisy.

Reason I'm going for a new mower is a bad gear in the axle transmission
assembly. Nothing to do with the engine. Cost to replace the assembly is
$70, but I might also have problems right at both front drive wheels, so
I'm going with a new one.

Thanks,

Ray

Honda motors will last longer, you can get one for 399 at HD online. I
think its a great deal.

On Aug 27, 3:45*pm, Ray K wrote:
I'm in the market for a 21" or 22" self-propelled, front drive,
walk-behind mower. The most commons engines are B&S and Honda, but
models with the Honda engine (like some in the Craftsman lineup) cost
about $60 more ($470 vs $410). I know this is a subjective question, but
is a Honda engine that much better?

Tecumseh seem to be out of favor. That's what's in my 3-year-old Toro.
Major complaint about the engine is the flimsy plastic tabs that hold
the fuel tank, and it seems noisy.

Reason I'm going for a new mower is a bad gear in the axle transmission
assembly. Nothing to do with the engine. Cost to replace the assembly is
$70, but I might also have problems right at both front drive wheels, so
I'm going with a new one.

Thanks,

Ray

The life of either engine will depend greatly on the maintenance you
do.

Hank ~~~likes them both

Ray K wrote:
I'm in the market for a 21" or 22" self-propelled, front drive,
walk-behind mower. The most commons engines are B&S and Honda, but
models with the Honda engine (like some in the Craftsman lineup) cost
about $60 more ($470 vs $410). I know this is a subjective question, but
is a Honda engine that much better?

Tecumseh seem to be out of favor. That's what's in my 3-year-old Toro.
Major complaint about the engine is the flimsy plastic tabs that hold
the fuel tank, and it seems noisy.

Reason I'm going for a new mower is a bad gear in the axle transmission
assembly. Nothing to do with the engine. Cost to replace the assembly is
$70, but I might also have problems right at both front drive wheels, so
I'm going with a new one.

Thanks,

Ray

Toro has the Recycler walk behind real wheel drive with a GTS B&S
engine. Then there is Ariens, MTD, Lawn Boy, Snapper, Poulan, McLane
rotary, Epic cordless, Some with B&S, some with Honda.


--
LSMFT

I look outside this morning and everything was in 3D!

On Fri, 27 Aug 2010 15:45:30 -0400, Ray K
wrote:

I'm in the market for a 21" or 22" self-propelled, front drive,
walk-behind mower. The most commons engines are B&S and Honda, but
models with the Honda engine (like some in the Craftsman lineup) cost
about $60 more ($470 vs $410). I know this is a subjective question, but
is a Honda engine that much better?

Tecumseh seem to be out of favor. That's what's in my 3-year-old Toro.
Major complaint about the engine is the flimsy plastic tabs that hold
the fuel tank, and it seems noisy.

Reason I'm going for a new mower is a bad gear in the axle transmission
assembly. Nothing to do with the engine. Cost to replace the assembly is
$70, but I might also have problems right at both front drive wheels, so
I'm going with a new one.

Thanks,

Ray

Tecumseh has gotten out of the small engine business.

Kohler and Kawasaki make good engines in addition to Honda.

All the manufacturers make different grades of engines, but I'd put
any one of the above ahead of most B&S. YMMV.

Having said that, for intermittent, faily light duty use, any brand
will hold up pretty well if you change the oil frequently, keep the
oil level right, and don't let it sit over winter without running it
out of gas first so the carb doesn't get gummed up.

One more tip for longevity. If you're frequently using the tool
(lawnmower, tractor, whatever) on a slope of more than 10 degrees or
so, pay what you have to to get an engine with pressurized oil system.
You can identify these because they usually have an oil filter.

HTH,

Paul F.

On Fri, 27 Aug 2010 14:18:40 -0700 (PDT), Hank
wrote:

The life of either engine will depend greatly on the maintenance you
do.

I spent twenty years trying to kill a lawn mower. I gave it the first
oil change and then spent many years trying to kill it.

I'd ruther be fishing.

I went as far as trying to cut the grass off at ground level.

Oh, Briggs & Stratton engines are the cat's meow. I have post diaper
experience.

Paul Franklin wrote:

One more tip for longevity. If you're frequently using the tool
(lawnmower, tractor, whatever) on a slope of more than 10 degrees or
so, pay what you have to to get an engine with pressurized oil system.
You can identify these because they usually have an oil filter.

HTH,

Paul F.

My 12,000 sq ft lawn takes an hour to mow. Of that time, 10-15 minutes
is spent on a 17-degree slope, 100 feet wide, 30 feet along the slope.
Everything else is a very gentle slope. For the three years I've used
the Toro mower, and the 7 years before that with another, I haven't had
an oil problem.

My immediate problem is the front axle transmission, which has a gear
with some teeth broken.

Ray

wrote:


Lowes should be a lot cheaper than that. I just bought a 21 Troy
Bilt/Honda RWD for $350.
The FWD was cheaper but they don't do well climbing hills.

About 1/4 of my 12,000-sq-ft lawn is on a 17-degree slope. Even with my
FWD, I don't have a problem. Maybe it because of the large rear wheels;
maybe it's because I push slightly upward on the handles, which forces
more weight onto the front driving wheels.

My concern with rear drive is making an abrupt u-turn at the edges of
the lawn. With my FWD, all I do is press down on the handle to lift the
front wheels off the lawn, and then I make an abrupt u-turn. Seems to me
that a RWD would fight me.

Ray

On Aug 28, 8:33*am, Ray K wrote:
wrote:

Lowes should be a lot cheaper than that. I just bought a 21 Troy
Bilt/Honda RWD for $350.
The FWD was cheaper but they don't do well climbing hills.

About 1/4 of my 12,000-sq-ft lawn is on a 17-degree slope. Even with my
FWD, I don't have a problem. Maybe it because of the large rear wheels;
maybe it's because I push slightly upward on the handles, which forces
more weight onto the front driving wheels.

My concern with rear drive is making an abrupt u-turn at the edges of
the lawn. With my FWD, all I do is press down on the handle to lift the
front wheels off the lawn, and then I make an abrupt u-turn. Seems to me
that a RWD would fight me.

Ray

I have a Honda Harmony torn apart, sitting in the garage with the same
problem, failed tranny. The engine runs great though, but the tranny
shows you that Honda ain't all many think it is. The tranny failed
after about 7 years use on a 10,000 sq ft lawn. The pros to the
Honda were it's less noisey and the mulching cut was the best I've
seen. I bought a Craftsman for $160 on Ebay 2 years ago. I'ts a
quarter the price of a new Honda. Pros are that it has significantly
more power and so far is running great. Cons are that it doesn't
leave as nice a cut and it's a bit noisier. Recently the drive went
out on it too. But, it just a broken spring that so far I managed to
mend and will replace when I have to. That's an advantage too. It
uses the variable speed belt/pulley type drive system instead of the
tranny. New tranny for the Honda would have been $130 and having
taken it apart, it's a very complex re-assembly. Likely I would get
it back together and working correctly, but decided given the choices
and costs, it wasn't worth the risk. Figured I might come across one
on Ebay on the cheap one day, but so far, no luck.

On Aug 28, 7:52*am, wrote:

" But, it just a broken spring that so far I managed to
mend and will replace when I have to." *

Women mend...men fix! ; P

On Sat, 28 Aug 2010 08:33:38 -0400, Ray K
wrote:

wrote:


Lowes should be a lot cheaper than that. I just bought a 21 Troy
Bilt/Honda RWD for $350.
The FWD was cheaper but they don't do well climbing hills.

About 1/4 of my 12,000-sq-ft lawn is on a 17-degree slope. Even with my
FWD, I don't have a problem. Maybe it because of the large rear wheels;
maybe it's because I push slightly upward on the handles, which forces
more weight onto the front driving wheels.

My concern with rear drive is making an abrupt u-turn at the edges of
the lawn. With my FWD, all I do is press down on the handle to lift the
front wheels off the lawn, and then I make an abrupt u-turn. Seems to me
that a RWD would fight me.

Ray
Not with a differential.

On Sat, 28 Aug 2010 08:27:45 -0400, Ray K wrote:
My immediate problem is the front axle transmission, which has a gear
with some teeth broken.

Can you just buy the replacement gear (rather than the whole assembly) -
or source an identical* broken mower from freecycle etc. to take parts
from?

* or "identical-enough" - check the part number as it might be common to
all sorts of different equipment.

re. B+S engines, I'm happy with them in our mid-80s lawn tractor. Very
easy to work on if/when something does go wrong. We've got about 90,000
sq ft of lawn, so it sees a fair few hours of run-time. The original
engine finally died earlier in the year with a trashed* cylinder wall,
but I merged the best parts from it with a slightly-larger engine sourced
from a friend (that one had sat outside for a good 15 years, but needed
little more than a good strip-down and clean). Problem is, of course,
that I can't say that modern B+S engines don't have any quality issues...

* B+S did an "industrial" version with a lined cylinder, and I wish I
could find one of those - if I could, it'd probably run for more or less
forever...

From limited experience, I really don't like self-propelled mowers; all
the ones I've used have been too heavy, and I'd much rather push a
lighter, unpropelled one around. Best darn "small" mower I ever had was a
1970s Flymo hover one (did they ever sell those in the US?) - no fighting
with it on the turns, and you could push it along with one finger. Just
watch your feet! ;-)

cheers

Jules

On 8/28/2010 8:33 AM, Ray K wrote:
wrote:


Lowes should be a lot cheaper than that. I just bought a 21 Troy
Bilt/Honda RWD for $350.
The FWD was cheaper but they don't do well climbing hills.

About 1/4 of my 12,000-sq-ft lawn is on a 17-degree slope. Even with my
FWD, I don't have a problem. Maybe it because of the large rear wheels;
maybe it's because I push slightly upward on the handles, which forces
more weight onto the front driving wheels.

My concern with rear drive is making an abrupt u-turn at the edges of
the lawn. With my FWD, all I do is press down on the handle to lift the
front wheels off the lawn, and then I make an abrupt u-turn. Seems to me
that a RWD would fight me.

Ray


On my RWD the rear wheels free wheel. To make a turn I loosen up on the
*drive* handle handle to stop it, push down to raise the front wheels
then turn it. The inside wheel on the turn doesn't go backwards, but
the outside wheel does turn forward. So there it is with the one rear
wheel exactly where it was except heading the other direction, and the
other wheel turning into uncut grass. It turns easier than one that is
not self propelled. Where ever you are shopping just tell them you want
to test drive it, even if it's only in the parking lot.

In article ,
Tony wrote:

Where ever you are shopping just tell them you want
to test drive it, even if it's only in the parking lot.

Yeah, most stores I know would fill a brand new lawn mower with gas and
oil and let a prospective customer go outside and launch stones at cars
and children.

On 9/7/2010 11:04 AM, Smitty Two wrote:
In ,
wrote:

Where ever you are shopping just tell them you want
to test drive it, even if it's only in the parking lot.

Yeah, most stores I know would fill a brand new lawn mower with gas and
oil and let a prospective customer go outside and launch stones at cars
and children.

Big Box stores won't, but many traditional equipment dealers do have a
demonstrator for the more popular models. Of course, there is usually a
price tradeoff.

--
aem sends...

On Sep 7, 9:38*pm, aemeijers wrote:
On 9/7/2010 11:04 AM, Smitty Two wrote:

In ,
* *wrote:

* Where ever you are shopping just tell them you want
to test drive it, even if it's only in the parking lot.

Yeah, most stores I know would fill a brand new lawn mower with gas and
oil and let a prospective customer go outside and launch stones at cars
and children.

Big Box stores won't, but many traditional equipment dealers do have a
demonstrator for the more popular models. Of course, there is usually a
price tradeoff.

--
aem sends...

Our local HD will let you take a spin in the parking lot, for whatever
good that tells someone. I'd rather test one cutting 12" tall bahia.