Latest proposals. He! Heh!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_mj3QknoPk
Beezebub, you'll love this one.
Who says Americans have no sense of humour?

harry wrote:

It's not a mosque. It's not at ground zero. What's the problem?

"harry" wrote in message
...
Latest proposals. He! Heh!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_mj3QknoPk
Beezebub, you'll love this one.
Who says Americans have no sense of humour?

GB is a retarded white piece of feces.

BTW: That joke was ripped off from "The Bob and Tom Show". Leave it to that
piece of **** GB not to come up with any fresh material.

On Aug 20, 4:24*am, "Bob F" wrote:
harry wrote:

It's not a mosque. It's not at ground zero. What's the problem?

Seems to be a problem for lots of Yanks.

harry wrote in news:a057cfc4-7d09-4d61-93a2-
:

On Aug 20, 4:24*am, "Bob F" wrote:
harry wrote:

It's not a mosque. It's not at ground zero. What's the problem?

Seems to be a problem for lots of Yanks.

I'm against organized religion (for myself), but archbishop Dolan of New
York said that it was similar to a catholic proposal to build a nunnery
next to Auschwitz. That was insensitive too, and was moved quite a
distance away, if it got built at all. So Dolan proposed also to move this
quite nice community center some disance further from GZ.

For the record - I think that all those who said this was a freedom of
religion issue, if all ordinances were followed, are right. I also think,
as many do, that it is a bit insensitive to stick your nose that close.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

"Han" wrote in message
...
snip

I'm against organized religion (for myself), but archbishop Dolan of New
York said that it was similar to a catholic proposal to build a nunnery
next to Auschwitz. That was insensitive too, and was moved quite a
distance away, if it got built at all. So Dolan proposed also to move
this
quite nice community center some disance further from GZ.


My thoughts on the subject are almost identical to Dolan's.

For the record - I think that all those who said this was a freedom of
religion issue, if all ordinances were followed, are right. I also think,
as many do, that it is a bit insensitive to stick your nose that close.
snip

The 106th congress removed all doubt as to whether or not it is a freedom of
religion issue:

http://www.rluipa.com/index.php/article/398.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Establi...irst_Amendment

Legally the opponents of the mosque don't have a chance.

Jim

"JimT" wrote in
net:


"Han" wrote in message
...
snip

I'm against organized religion (for myself), but archbishop Dolan of
New York said that it was similar to a catholic proposal to build a
nunnery next to Auschwitz. That was insensitive too, and was moved
quite a distance away, if it got built at all. So Dolan proposed
also to move this
quite nice community center some disance further from GZ.


My thoughts on the subject are almost identical to Dolan's.

For the record - I think that all those who said this was a freedom
of religion issue, if all ordinances were followed, are right. I
also think, as many do, that it is a bit insensitive to stick your
nose that close. snip

The 106th congress removed all doubt as to whether or not it is a
freedom of religion issue:

http://www.rluipa.com/index.php/article/398.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Establi...First_Amendmen
t

Legally the opponents of the mosque don't have a chance.

Jim

I also think that legally the opponents of the cultural center don't have
a chance. But this is a sensitivity issue, and the proponents have not
been cultivating the appropriate people properly, at least according to
what I read. They should have had dialog with groups possibly against
their plan, rather than ignoring them. Probably too late now to start
that dialog. It's a pity that muslims could not have been included in
the GZ plans better. After all, muslims died in the disaster just like
atheists, hindus and christians (note lower case).

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

Han wrote:
"JimT" wrote in
net:

"Han" wrote in message
...
snip

I'm against organized religion (for myself), but archbishop Dolan of
New York said that it was similar to a catholic proposal to build a
nunnery next to Auschwitz. That was insensitive too, and was moved
quite a distance away, if it got built at all. So Dolan proposed
also to move this
quite nice community center some disance further from GZ.

My thoughts on the subject are almost identical to Dolan's.

For the record - I think that all those who said this was a freedom
of religion issue, if all ordinances were followed, are right. I
also think, as many do, that it is a bit insensitive to stick your
nose that close. snip
The 106th congress removed all doubt as to whether or not it is a
freedom of religion issue:

http://www.rluipa.com/index.php/article/398.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Establi...First_Amendmen
t

Legally the opponents of the mosque don't have a chance.

Jim

I also think that legally the opponents of the cultural center don't have
a chance. But this is a sensitivity issue, and the proponents have not
been cultivating the appropriate people properly, at least according to
what I read. They should have had dialog with groups possibly against
their plan, rather than ignoring them. Probably too late now to start
that dialog. It's a pity that muslims could not have been included in
the GZ plans better. After all, muslims died in the disaster just like
atheists, hindus and christians (note lower case).


Sensitivity? BS! All of the idiots with islamaphobia should get an rx
to treat paranoia. Sensitivity in NYC is a freaking oxymoron. Grief
and loss are to be respected, at all times. Where is the community
center allowed to be to comply with "sensitivity", and who decides? The
US got hit, and hit hard, but it has happened before and will happen
again in some regard. Two billion Muslims in the world, and 19 are
allowed to change how we think about the rest? That is nonsense, and
the sensitivity bull crap is just another expression of prejudice, just
like the "Obama is a Muslim" and "Obama was born in Kenya" nonsense.
Folks who vote on the basis of nonsense are what really scare me to
death, just as when Bill Clinton's sex life was an urgent national
issue. There are a lot of TV preachers, of all stripes...I think it
would be a big hit to have TV psychiatrists treating political paranoia,
along with some Prozac in the water supply )

" wrote in
m:

Han wrote:
"JimT" wrote in
net:

"Han" wrote in message
...
snip

I'm against organized religion (for myself), but archbishop Dolan
of New York said that it was similar to a catholic proposal to
build a nunnery next to Auschwitz. That was insensitive too, and
was moved quite a distance away, if it got built at all. So Dolan
proposed also to move this
quite nice community center some disance further from GZ.

My thoughts on the subject are almost identical to Dolan's.

For the record - I think that all those who said this was a freedom
of religion issue, if all ordinances were followed, are right. I
also think, as many do, that it is a bit insensitive to stick your
nose that close. snip
The 106th congress removed all doubt as to whether or not it is a
freedom of religion issue:

http://www.rluipa.com/index.php/article/398.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Establi...e_First_Amendm
en t

Legally the opponents of the mosque don't have a chance.

Jim

I also think that legally the opponents of the cultural center don't
have a chance. But this is a sensitivity issue, and the proponents
have not been cultivating the appropriate people properly, at least
according to what I read. They should have had dialog with groups
possibly against their plan, rather than ignoring them. Probably too
late now to start that dialog. It's a pity that muslims could not
have been included in the GZ plans better. After all, muslims died
in the disaster just like atheists, hindus and christians (note lower
case).


Sensitivity? BS! All of the idiots with islamaphobia should get an
rx to treat paranoia. Sensitivity in NYC is a freaking oxymoron.
Grief and loss are to be respected, at all times. Where is the
community center allowed to be to comply with "sensitivity", and who
decides? The US got hit, and hit hard, but it has happened before and
will happen again in some regard. Two billion Muslims in the world,
and 19 are allowed to change how we think about the rest? That is
nonsense, and the sensitivity bull crap is just another expression of
prejudice, just like the "Obama is a Muslim" and "Obama was born in
Kenya" nonsense. Folks who vote on the basis of nonsense are what
really scare me to death, just as when Bill Clinton's sex life was an
urgent national issue. There are a lot of TV preachers, of all
stripes...I think it would be a big hit to have TV psychiatrists
treating political paranoia, along with some Prozac in the water
supply )

I'm really with you, but also didn't find it tasteful when there were
plans to have a nunnery built right next to Auschwitz. That idea was
relocated or abandoned, and I'm happy with that too. So paranoia or
insensitivity, it is indeed all BS, but we do have to deal with
perceptions as well as reality. And I did see the towers come down from
a safe distance (13th floor at 23rd and First Ave). And accompanied a
muslim colleague back to New Jersey that afternoon, where we needed to
take a shower in Hoboken, clothes and all, because we could have been
contaminated with asbestos (NOT from where we were!).
--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

wrote in message
m...
Han wrote:
"JimT" wrote in
net:
"Han" wrote in message
...
snip

I'm against organized religion (for myself), but archbishop Dolan of
New York said that it was similar to a catholic proposal to build a
nunnery next to Auschwitz. That was insensitive too, and was moved
quite a distance away, if it got built at all. So Dolan proposed
also to move this
quite nice community center some disance further from GZ.

My thoughts on the subject are almost identical to Dolan's.

For the record - I think that all those who said this was a freedom
of religion issue, if all ordinances were followed, are right. I
also think, as many do, that it is a bit insensitive to stick your
nose that close. snip
The 106th congress removed all doubt as to whether or not it is a
freedom of religion issue:

http://www.rluipa.com/index.php/article/398.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Establi...First_Amendmen
t
Legally the opponents of the mosque don't have a chance.

Jim

I also think that legally the opponents of the cultural center don't have
a chance. But this is a sensitivity issue, and the proponents have not
been cultivating the appropriate people properly, at least according to
what I read. They should have had dialog with groups possibly against
their plan, rather than ignoring them. Probably too late now to start
that dialog. It's a pity that muslims could not have been included in
the GZ plans better. After all, muslims died in the disaster just like
atheists, hindus and christians (note lower case).


Sensitivity? BS! All of the idiots with islamaphobia should get an rx to
treat paranoia. Sensitivity in NYC is a freaking oxymoron.

That's a GROSS generalization.

Grief and loss are to be respected, at all times. Where is the community
center allowed to be to comply with "sensitivity", and who decides? The US
got hit, and hit hard, but it has happened before and will happen again in
some regard. Two billion Muslims in the world, and 19....

Just because 19 actually flew in the planes doesn't mean there were not more
involved. There are literally millions of radical Muslims that want you
dead. It's part of their faith. "Kill the infidels."

are allowed to change how we think about the rest? That is nonsense, and
the sensitivity bull crap is just another expression of prejudice, just
like the "Obama is a Muslim" and "Obama was born in Kenya" nonsense.

Another generalization.

Folks who vote on the basis of nonsense are what really scare me to death,
just as when Bill Clinton's sex life was an urgent national issue. There
are a lot of TV preachers, of all stripes...I think it would be a big hit
to have TV psychiatrists treating political paranoia, along with some
Prozac in the water supply )

Clinton's personality really came out with the BJ incident. Some American's,
myself included, hold their officials to a high standard of morality.
Republican, Democrat or whatever. I voted for Clinton twice. I was very
disappointed with his behavior and his efforts to lie about it. He was
responsible for the media circus and the ensuing political fallout.

I'm not sure what you mean with the Prozac comment.

Jim

"JimT" wrote

Clinton's personality really came out with the BJ incident. Some
American's, myself included, hold their officials to a high standard of
morality. Republican, Democrat or whatever.

If we got rid of every politician that ever got an illicit BJ, it would be
mighty empty down there in Washington and every State capitol and town hall
around the country.

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...

"JimT" wrote

Clinton's personality really came out with the BJ incident. Some
American's, myself included, hold their officials to a high standard of
morality. Republican, Democrat or whatever.

If we got rid of every politician that ever got an illicit BJ, it would be
mighty empty down there in Washington and every State capitol and town
hall around the country.

I don't know about you but I was offended when Clinton used the Oval office
as place to relieve himself and then get on national TV and lie about it.
There maybe some that have done something similar but not to this extent. It
was shameful and he'll never live it down. It's his legacy and a warning to
anyone who takes that office. Keep it zipped! And before you bring up
Kennedy: IT DOESN"T MAKE IT RIGHT.

Jim

On Aug 20, 8:21*pm, "JimT" wrote:
"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message

...



"JimT" wrote

Clinton's personality really came out with the BJ incident. Some
American's, myself included, hold their officials to a high standard of
morality. Republican, Democrat or whatever.

If we got rid of every politician that ever got an illicit BJ, it would be
mighty empty down there in Washington and every State capitol and town
hall around the country.

I don't know about you but I was offended when Clinton used the Oval office
as place to relieve himself and then get on national TV and lie about it.
There maybe some that have done something similar but not to this extent. It
was shameful and he'll never live it down. It's his legacy and a warning to
anyone who takes that office. Keep it zipped! And before you bring up
Kennedy: IT DOESN"T MAKE IT RIGHT.

Jim

I'm a Brit and I see your point. We have similar issues with
politicians over here too.

wrote:

Sensitivity? BS! All of the idiots with islamaphobia should get an
rx to treat paranoia. Sensitivity in NYC is a freaking oxymoron. Grief
and loss are to be respected, at all times. Where is the
community center allowed to be to comply with "sensitivity", and who
decides? The US got hit, and hit hard, but it has happened before
and will happen again in some regard. Two billion Muslims in the
world, and 19 are allowed to change how we think about the rest? That is
nonsense, and the sensitivity bull crap is just another
expression of prejudice, just like the "Obama is a Muslim" and "Obama
was born in Kenya" nonsense. Folks who vote on the basis of nonsense
are what really scare me to death, just as when Bill Clinton's sex
life was an urgent national issue. There are a lot of TV preachers,
of all stripes...I think it would be a big hit to have TV
psychiatrists treating political paranoia, along with some Prozac in
the water supply )

"Sensitivity" should cast SOME weight, but rubbing-their-face-in-it has got
to count for something too.

You raise some good points. But the issue won't go away. This controversy
has stepped on the president's message about the economy and such for a
whole week now.

Then, too, there's the small Greek Orthodox Church - built in 1832 - that
was destroyed when the towers fell. The Deacons of the church STILL have not
gotten permission to rebuild nine years later. Some should ask why the mayor
of New York and the president of the United States can so eagerly defend the
right of an Islamic center but say nary a word to help a small church get a
building permit.

And, as to your question whether we should let 19 Muslims alter our view of
the remaining two billion, I think we can as long as there are fewer than 19
among the 2 billion stepping up to condemn the actions of the first group.

-----

OT Story:
Not long ago I got picked out of line at the Sky Harbor Airport in Phoenix
for "additional RANDOM screening." The TSA selected me, a senior white male,
a senior black male, a young Oriental woman, and a young Hispanic male with
a goatee.

While one of the TSA agentettes is prowling through the Hispanic guy's
computer (looking for bomb-making recipes?) I said to him (soto voice) "You
know, you look more like a terrorist than the rest of us, so ix-nay on any
funny business."

The agent looks up at me and says, somewhat indignantly, "There's no such
thing as what a 'terrorist looks like!' "

"There damn sure is," I respond. "They're young middle-eastern males with
names like Achmed al-BoomBoom. Didn't you get the memo?"

That got me a talking-to.

But I knew I could get away with it; you see, that airport has a, er,
"reputation."

In February of 2002, right after 9-11 when the National Guard was on the
case, a man tried to carry a "Ninja Star" weapon aboard an aircraft. He was
summarily pulled aside and the authorities talked strong to him. Come to
find out, this do-bad was responsible for bringing down 34 aircraft with the
loss of life of everybody aboard!

His name was Joe Foss.

Foss was the former governor of South Dakota, brigadier general in the
National Guard, commissioner of the American Football League, president of
the National Rifle Association, and, for 24 years, the host of the TV
program "The American Sportsman."

He had just left a Board of Director's meeting of the NRA and was enroute to
the U.S. Military Academy at West Point to deliver a guest lecture on
"Patriotism."

And the "Ninja Star" that got everybody so exercised? It was the Medal of
Honor given him by Franklin Roosevelt for downing 23 Japanese aircraft
during the battle of Guadacanal.

When told he could board his flight if he discarded this potential
destructive device ("In the pot, pops") Joe is reported to have said:
"You've done ****ed with the wrong Marine, sonny!"

The only thing that could have made this story more ironic (or pathetic) was
if it had happened a Joe's home airport in Sioux Falls. The name of that
airport is "Joe Foss Field."

---
Citation

"For outstanding heroism and courage above and beyond the call of duty as
executive officer of Marine Fighting Squadron 121, 1st Marine Aircraft Wing,
at Guadalcanal...."

http://www.homeofheroes.com/moh/cita...i_mc_foss.html

harry wrote in news:aca109ad-afa1-4d89-b5bc-
:

I'm a Brit and I see your point. We have similar issues with
politicians over here too.


Going back many, many years ... Profumo, or something like that?

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

"HeyBub" wrote in message
m...
wrote:

Sensitivity? BS! All of the idiots with islamaphobia should get an
rx to treat paranoia. Sensitivity in NYC is a freaking oxymoron. Grief
and loss are to be respected, at all times. Where is the
community center allowed to be to comply with "sensitivity", and who
decides? The US got hit, and hit hard, but it has happened before
and will happen again in some regard. Two billion Muslims in the
world, and 19 are allowed to change how we think about the rest? That is
nonsense, and the sensitivity bull crap is just another
expression of prejudice, just like the "Obama is a Muslim" and "Obama
was born in Kenya" nonsense. Folks who vote on the basis of nonsense
are what really scare me to death, just as when Bill Clinton's sex
life was an urgent national issue. There are a lot of TV preachers,
of all stripes...I think it would be a big hit to have TV
psychiatrists treating political paranoia, along with some Prozac in
the water supply )

"Sensitivity" should cast SOME weight, but rubbing-their-face-in-it has
got to count for something too.

You raise some good points. But the issue won't go away. This controversy
has stepped on the president's message about the economy and such for a
whole week now.

Then, too, there's the small Greek Orthodox Church - built in 1832 - that
was destroyed when the towers fell. The Deacons of the church STILL have
not gotten permission to rebuild nine years later. Some should ask why the
mayor of New York and the president of the United States can so eagerly
defend the right of an Islamic center but say nary a word to help a small
church get a building permit.

And, as to your question whether we should let 19 Muslims alter our view
of the remaining two billion, I think we can as long as there are fewer
than 19 among the 2 billion stepping up to condemn the actions of the
first group.

-----
snip

Great post. I hadn't heard about the Greek Orthodox Church. Excellent
point. Does someone need their 1st Amendment rights protected?

Jim

On Fri, 20 Aug 2010 14:21:53 -0500, "JimT" wrote:


"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
m...

"JimT" wrote

Clinton's personality really came out with the BJ incident. Some
American's, myself included, hold their officials to a high standard of
morality. Republican, Democrat or whatever.

If we got rid of every politician that ever got an illicit BJ, it would be
mighty empty down there in Washington and every State capitol and town
hall around the country.

Our Mayor travels the country with Vegas Show Girls. Says he's the
happiest mayor in the universe.

He has never spoken about "fringe benefits".


I don't know about you but I was offended when Clinton used the Oval office
as place to relieve himself and then get on national TV and lie about it.
There maybe some that have done something similar but not to this extent. It
was shameful and he'll never live it down. It's his legacy and a warning to
anyone who takes that office. Keep it zipped! And before you bring up
Kennedy: IT DOESN"T MAKE IT RIGHT.

Jim

I believe Willie Nelson smoked pot on top of the White House?, during
the Clinton administration. There was another infamous sex on the
Capitol steps...years ago.......

In article ,
"Ed Pawlowski" wrote:

"JimT" wrote

Clinton's personality really came out with the BJ incident. Some
American's, myself included, hold their officials to a high standard of
morality. Republican, Democrat or whatever.

If we got rid of every politician that ever got an illicit BJ, it would be
mighty empty down there in Washington and every State capitol and town hall
around the country.

Of course the legal hooha wasn't because of the BJ, but rather lying
about it under oath, numerous times. Of course if we got rid of every
politician who lied, the results would be about the same.

--
I want to find a voracious, small-minded predator
and name it after the IRS.
Robert Bakker, paleontologist

In article ,
"HeyBub" wrote:


In February of 2002, right after 9-11 when the National Guard was on the
case, a man tried to carry a "Ninja Star" weapon aboard an aircraft. He was
summarily pulled aside and the authorities talked strong to him. Come to
find out, this do-bad was responsible for bringing down 34 aircraft with the
loss of life of everybody aboard!

And the "Ninja Star" that got everybody so exercised? It was the Medal of
Honor given him by Franklin Roosevelt for downing 23 Japanese aircraft
during the battle of Guadacanal.

Had a bunch of problems with the local Sheriff's over the last few
years. The badges in wallets and purses look like throwing stars, too.
Had one show the badge, and then immediately get pulled over the side to
make sure he wasn't trying to carry his service pistol on board. He
wasn't.





--
I want to find a voracious, small-minded predator
and name it after the IRS.
Robert Bakker, paleontologist

In article ,
Han wrote:

harry wrote in news:aca109ad-afa1-4d89-b5bc-
:

I'm a Brit and I see your point. We have similar issues with
politicians over here too.


Going back many, many years ... Profumo, or something like that?

Profumo was nailed for sharing his mistress with a Russian spy. A
couple orders of magnitude worse than even Clinton in the Little Head
Does The Thinking category .

--
I want to find a voracious, small-minded predator
and name it after the IRS.
Robert Bakker, paleontologist

"HeyBub" wrote in message
m...

Then, too, there's the small Greek Orthodox Church - built in 1832 - that
was destroyed when the towers fell. The Deacons of the church STILL have
not gotten permission to rebuild nine years later. Some should ask why
the mayor of New York and the president of the United States can so
eagerly defend the right of an Islamic center but say nary a word to help
a small church get a building permit.

Actually, your half truths are worse than lies. You should follow the story
of the church more closely.

How you want to hold the present POTUS responsible for nothing being done
b/4 2009, is beyond any sane person's imagination. You probably want to
educate youself on exactly what year action started being taken on this
church. Then ask why nothing was done B/4 that year.

Maybe you'd like to rephrase your twisted opinion once you get a straight
story. And, I'm not here to educate your dumb ass, look it up for yourself.

"HeyBub" wrote:
-snip-

"Sensitivity" should cast SOME weight, but rubbing-their-face-in-it has got
to count for something too.

I don't see how building a center on a block with strip clubs, retail
businesses, and falafel stands is 'rubbing anyone's face' in anything.


You raise some good points. But the issue won't go away. This controversy
has stepped on the president's message about the economy and such for a
whole week now.

Then, too, there's the small Greek Orthodox Church - built in 1832 - that
was destroyed when the towers fell. The Deacons of the church STILL have not
gotten permission to rebuild nine years later.

Not exactly. They *could* rebuild the same church where it was---
but they are negotiating with the city to get a bigger piece of land
for a bigger church.

Part of that long story was told in the NY Times last year-
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/19/ny.../19church.html

[and also note that the Islamic center has not even begun the process
of getting permits to build- I don't think they even have the
architectural drawings done-- Actual building is years down the road.]

Some should ask why the mayor
of New York and the president of the United States can so eagerly defend the
right of an Islamic center but say nary a word to help a small church get a
building permit.

Both have defended the religious rights of Muslims in general. The
President has not weighed in on this particular site. The Gov. has
offered to try to find an alternate piece of land for the Islamic
center. Frankly, I think they should both STFU - it is a *local*
concern.


And, as to your question whether we should let 19 Muslims alter our view of
the remaining two billion, I think we can as long as there are fewer than 19
among the 2 billion stepping up to condemn the actions of the first group.

Then we shouldn't because at last count there 1.86789325 billion who
are peace seeking folks. There were probably a couple hundred
Muslims killed in the towers. I'll bet 20 of their friends and
family condemn the hijackers.

Jim

In article ,
"Cojoes" wrote:


How you want to hold the present POTUS responsible for nothing being done
b/4 2009, is beyond any sane person's imagination. You probably want to
educate youself on exactly what year action started being taken on this
church. Then ask why nothing was done B/4 that year.


The point was if he was gonna stick his nose into this local issue,
why shouldn't he also stick his into the other one? If he is going to
bring the weight of the office to bear on this building issue, why not
another?



--
I want to find a voracious, small-minded predator
and name it after the IRS.
Robert Bakker, paleontologist

"Jim Elbrecht" wrote in message
...
"HeyBub" wrote:
-snip-

"Sensitivity" should cast SOME weight, but rubbing-their-face-in-it has
got
to count for something too.

I don't see how building a center on a block with strip clubs, retail
businesses, and falafel stands is 'rubbing anyone's face' in anything.


You raise some good points. But the issue won't go away. This controversy
has stepped on the president's message about the economy and such for a
whole week now.

Then, too, there's the small Greek Orthodox Church - built in 1832 - that
was destroyed when the towers fell. The Deacons of the church STILL have
not
gotten permission to rebuild nine years later.

Not exactly. They *could* rebuild the same church where it was---
but they are negotiating with the city to get a bigger piece of land
for a bigger church.

Part of that long story was told in the NY Times last year-
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/19/ny.../19church.html

[and also note that the Islamic center has not even begun the process
of getting permits to build- I don't think they even have the
architectural drawings done-- Actual building is years down the road.]

Some should ask why the mayor
of New York and the president of the United States can so eagerly defend
the
right of an Islamic center but say nary a word to help a small church get
a
building permit.

Both have defended the religious rights of Muslims in general. The
President has not weighed in on this particular site. The Gov. has
offered to try to find an alternate piece of land for the Islamic
center. Frankly, I think they should both STFU - it is a *local*
concern.


And, as to your question whether we should let 19 Muslims alter our view
of
the remaining two billion, I think we can as long as there are fewer than
19
among the 2 billion stepping up to condemn the actions of the first group.

Then we shouldn't because at last count there 1.86789325 billion who
are peace seeking folks. There were probably a couple hundred
Muslims killed in the towers. I'll bet 20 of their friends and
family condemn the hijackers.

Jim

Wasn't it more like 60?

Unfortunately, legally it is a national issue that effects us all. 1st
Amendment et al.

Jim

"Kurt Ullman" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Cojoes" wrote:


How you want to hold the present POTUS responsible for nothing being
done
b/4 2009, is beyond any sane person's imagination. You probably want to
educate youself on exactly what year action started being taken on this
church. Then ask why nothing was done B/4 that year.


The point was if he was gonna stick his nose into this local issue,
why shouldn't he also stick his into the other one? If he is going to
bring the weight of the office to bear on this building issue, why not
another?

The constitution, which contains freedom of religion, is NOT just a local
issue. Try again, this time go by facts of what was said.

Trashing the constitution, because you don't like a certain religion, is
Un-American.

On 08/19/2010 10:24 PM, Bob F wrote:
harry wrote:

It's not a mosque. It's not at ground zero. What's the problem?


Close enough!!!!!!!!!!

--
"An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last."
~Winston Churchill

“Islam is the crack cocaine of religion” ~John Bodart

On 08/20/2010 02:39 AM, harry wrote:
On Aug 20, 4:24 am, "Bob wrote:
harry wrote:

It's not a mosque. It's not at ground zero. What's the problem?

Seems to be a problem for lots of Yanks.
What would your queen look like wearing a burqa? By the time you
figure out you've lost your freedom, it'll be to late.

--
"An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last."
~Winston Churchill

“Islam is the crack cocaine of religion” ~John Bodart

Mysterious Traveler wrote in
:

On 08/19/2010 10:24 PM, Bob F wrote:
harry wrote:

It's not a mosque. It's not at ground zero. What's the problem?


Close enough!!!!!!!!!!

Yes, as the crow flies it is fairly close. However it is out of sight from
GZ, certainly at street level. Just do a google maps for 51 Park Pl, New
York, NY.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

harry wrote:
Latest proposals. He! Heh!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_mj3QknoPk
Beezebub, you'll love this one.
Who says Americans have no sense of humour?

It don't make a **** to me. I don't do churches.

--
LSMFT

I look outside this morning and everything was in 3D!

In article ,
"Cojoes" wrote:

"

The constitution, which contains freedom of religion, is NOT just a local
issue. Try again, this time go by facts of what was said.
I did. The main ways they are trying to stop the Mosque are not
freedom of religion issues. They are trying to stop it using local
zoning and other methods. It is whether or not the building should be a
historically preserved building and, now that the building commissioners
say it ain't, whether they followed their own procedures. They don't
want them in, but they are using the local bureaucracy in a time-honored
manner that has been implemented to keep out strip joints, subsidized
housing or other kinds of NIMBY things for years.

Trashing the constitution, because you don't like a certain religion, is
Un-American.
But using the constitution, the part about equal protection, isn't.

--
I want to find a voracious, small-minded predator
and name it after the IRS.
Robert Bakker, paleontologist

"Kurt Ullman" wrote in message
m...
In article ,
"Cojoes" wrote:

"

The constitution, which contains freedom of religion, is NOT just a
local
issue. Try again, this time go by facts of what was said.
I did. The main ways they are trying to stop the Mosque are not
freedom of religion issues. They are trying to stop it using local
zoning and other methods. It is whether or not the building should be a
historically preserved building and, now that the building commissioners
say it ain't, whether they followed their own procedures. They don't
want them in, but they are using the local bureaucracy in a time-honored
manner that has been implemented to keep out strip joints, subsidized
housing or other kinds of NIMBY things for years.

Trashing the constitution, because you don't like a certain religion, is
Un-American.
But using the constitution, the part about equal protection, isn't.

Your answer had nothing to do with Obama's comments about freedom of
religion. It appears you're attempting to skirt the issue, instead of
addressing your response of

"Kurt Ullman" wrote in message " The point was
if he was gonna stick his nose into this local issue, why shouldn't he
also stick his into the other one? If he is going to bring the weight of
the office to bear on this building issue, why not another? "

The POTUS better defend the constitution, no matter how many feelings are
hurt. If he doesn't, it's time for him to go.

Han wrote:
Mysterious Traveler wrote in
:

On 08/19/2010 10:24 PM, Bob F wrote:
harry wrote:

It's not a mosque. It's not at ground zero. What's the problem?


Close enough!!!!!!!!!!

Yes, as the crow flies it is fairly close. However it is out of
sight from GZ, certainly at street level. Just do a google maps for
51 Park Pl, New York, NY.

And it's more like a YMCA than a mosque.

On Aug 20, 9:09*pm, Han wrote:
harry wrote in news:aca109ad-afa1-4d89-b5bc-
:

I'm a Brit and I see your point. We have similar issues with
politicians over here too.

Going back many, many years ... *Profumo, or something like that?

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

Profumo (Secretary of state for war) was the one that was shagging a
prostitute that was also being shagged by a Russian Naval attache.)
For crooked politicians, we haven't looked back since. They've just
got worse.
Or maybe he was just the first we found out about. F***g scumbags.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Profumo_Affair

On Aug 20, 9:54*pm, Kurt Ullman wrote:
In article ,

*"HeyBub" wrote:

In February of 2002, right after 9-11 when the National Guard was on the
case, a man tried to carry a "Ninja Star" weapon aboard an aircraft. *He was
summarily pulled aside and the authorities talked strong to him. Come to
find out, this do-bad was responsible for bringing down 34 aircraft with the
loss of life of everybody aboard!

And the "Ninja Star" that got everybody so exercised? It was the Medal of
Honor given him by Franklin Roosevelt for downing 23 Japanese aircraft
during the battle of Guadacanal.

* * Had a bunch of problems with the local Sheriff's over the last few
years. The badges in wallets and purses look like throwing stars, too.
Had one show the badge, and then immediately get pulled over the side to
make sure he wasn't trying to carry his service pistol on board. He
wasn't.



--
* I want to find a voracious, small-minded predator
and name it after the IRS.
Robert Bakker, paleontologist

My wife got stopped for a nail clipper. They took it off her.

On Aug 20, 10:38*pm, "Cojoes" wrote:
"HeyBub" wrote in message

m...

Then, too, there's the small Greek Orthodox Church - built in 1832 - that
was destroyed when the towers fell. The Deacons of the church STILL have
not gotten permission to rebuild nine years later. Some should ask why
the mayor of New York and the president of the United States can so
eagerly defend the right of an Islamic center but say nary a word to help
a small church get a building permit.

Actually, your half truths are worse than lies. You should follow the story
of the church more closely.

How you want to hold the present POTUS responsible for nothing being done
b/4 2009, is beyond any sane person's imagination. You probably want to
educate youself on exactly what year action started being taken on this
church. Then ask why nothing was done B/4 that year.

Maybe you'd like to rephrase your twisted opinion once you get a straight
story. And, I'm not here to educate your dumb ass, look it up for yourself.

He always does this with all issues over Israel/islaam/Middle East.
I am following all this with great interest.

On Aug 20, 11:35*pm, Mysterious Traveler
wrote:
On 08/20/2010 02:39 AM, harry wrote: On Aug 20, 4:24 am, "Bob *wrote:
harry wrote:

It's not a mosque. It's not at ground zero. What's the problem?

Seems to be a problem for lots of Yanks.

What would your queen look like wearing a burqa? By the time you
figure out you've lost your freedom, it'll be to late.

--
"An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last."
~Winston Churchill

“Islam is the crack cocaine of religion” ~John Bodart

You're quite right. I would ship all our Paki colonists out of the
country.

On Aug 21, 12:17*am, Kurt Ullman wrote:
In article ,

*"Cojoes" wrote:
"

The constitution, which contains freedom of religion, is NOT just a local
issue. Try again, this time go by facts of what was said.

* * I did. The main ways they are trying to stop the Mosque are not
freedom of religion issues. They are trying to stop it using local
zoning and other methods. It is whether or not the building should be a
historically preserved building and, now that the building commissioners
say it ain't, whether they followed their own procedures. *They don't
want them in, but they are using the local bureaucracy in a time-honored
manner that has been implemented to keep out strip joints, subsidized
housing or other kinds of NIMBY things for years.

Trashing the constitution, because you don't like a certain religion, is
Un-American.

* *But using the constitution, the part about equal protection, isn't..

--
* I want to find a voracious, small-minded predator
and name it after the IRS.
Robert Bakker, paleontologist

There was a tour of the inside of the building on "Aljazeera"
satellite TV the other day. It is already used as a mosque, meeting
place, library, etc and apparently has bee for some time. (Not
specified how much)

"Mysterious Traveler" wrote in message
...
On 08/20/2010 02:39 AM, harry wrote:
On Aug 20, 4:24 am, "Bob wrote:
harry wrote:

It's not a mosque. It's not at ground zero. What's the problem?

Seems to be a problem for lots of Yanks.
What would your queen look like wearing a burqa? By the time you
figure out you've lost your freedom, it'll be to late.

--
"An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last."
~Winston Churchill

“Islam is the crack cocaine of religion” ~John Bodart


"Religion is the opiate of the people" - Karl Marx

Jim

Jim Elbrecht wrote:

"HeyBub" wrote:
-snip-

Some should ask why the mayor
of New York and the president of the United States can so eagerly defend the
right of an Islamic center but say nary a word to help a small church get a
building permit.

Both have defended the religious rights of Muslims in general. The
President has not weighed in on this particular site. The Gov. has
offered to try to find an alternate piece of land for the Islamic
center. Frankly, I think they should both STFU - it is a *local*
concern.


Sorry about that-- Another brain fart, apparently. [I might need to
tune it up or something]

I saw 'Mayor' and thought 'Gov'.
The Mayor has made his position on freedom of religion clear-- and has
bent over backwards to accommodate the folks at St. Nicholas who start
to sound like Rod Blagojevich with their ever increasing expectations
of what the city should do for them.

Jim

In article ,
"Cojoes" wrote:

"Kurt Ullman" wrote in message
m...
In article ,
"Cojoes" wrote:

"

The constitution, which contains freedom of religion, is NOT just a
local
issue. Try again, this time go by facts of what was said.
I did. The main ways they are trying to stop the Mosque are not
freedom of religion issues. They are trying to stop it using local
zoning and other methods. It is whether or not the building should be a
historically preserved building and, now that the building commissioners
say it ain't, whether they followed their own procedures. They don't
want them in, but they are using the local bureaucracy in a time-honored
manner that has been implemented to keep out strip joints, subsidized
housing or other kinds of NIMBY things for years.

Trashing the constitution, because you don't like a certain religion, is
Un-American.
But using the constitution, the part about equal protection, isn't.

Your answer had nothing to do with Obama's comments about freedom of
religion. It appears you're attempting to skirt the issue, instead of
addressing your response of

"Kurt Ullman" wrote in message " The point was
if he was gonna stick his nose into this local issue, why shouldn't he
also stick his into the other one? If he is going to bring the weight of
the office to bear on this building issue, why not another? "

The POTUS better defend the constitution, no matter how many feelings are
hurt. If he doesn't, it's time for him to go.

Actually I am right on the constitutional question. I am more
interested in the 14th (especially the Due Process Cause and the Equal
Protection Clause requires each state to provide equal protection under
the law to all people within its jurisdiction).
While I am not suggesting the motives are remotely pure, the fact
remains that at this time they are going through the legal means to try
and stop it. So, we are going to deprive people of their right for equal
protection and toss out their legal challenges merely because we don't
agree with them.
It seems a touch hypocritical to wrap ones self in the
Constitutional banner while working REAL hard to ignore the parts that
are inconvenient to your view.
If he is to defend the constitution, then he has to defend ALL of
it.
BTW: If one would want to go Strict Constructionist on somebody's
ass, he should also defend the 10th Amendment providing that powers not
granted to the federal government nor prohibited to the states by the
Constitution of the United States are reserved to the states or the
people.
Zoning, local building codes, etc are among the quintessential
powers delegated to the states. Yet another reason he should have kept
his nose out of it. Actually his second day statement about how they
shouldn't be doing this was the best thing to do from the get go.

So, to sort all this out, while I think it probably one of the dumber
moves of the Century, they still have every right to do what they are
doing. If you want to defend the constitution it is probably even more
important that you defend the rights of those who don't get the good
press.

--
I want to find a voracious, small-minded predator
and name it after the IRS.
Robert Bakker, paleontologist