Alan Blinder, a Princeton professor and former Federal Reserve vice
chairman, says it won't be surprising years from now if a carpenter in the
U.S. earns more than a college-educated computer operator. In fact, the data
suggest that education bears little relationship to jobs that are vulnerable
to offshoring, he says.

On balance, Blinder says, "there's little doubt a college education is a
good investment for most students."

But he offers this advice: "Don't train yourself or your children [in work]
that a computer can do or a smart kid in China or India can do. Because
that's ferocious competition."

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...021,full.story

Robert Green wrote:
Alan Blinder, a Princeton professor and former Federal Reserve vice
chairman, says it won't be surprising years from now if a carpenter in the
U.S. earns more than a college-educated computer operator. In fact, the data
suggest that education bears little relationship to jobs that are vulnerable
to offshoring, he says.

On balance, Blinder says, "there's little doubt a college education is a
good investment for most students."

But he offers this advice: "Don't train yourself or your children [in work]
that a computer can do or a smart kid in China or India can do. Because
that's ferocious competition."

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...021,full.story



Gee, let's send all our addicts and convicts on probation to India for
rehab and retraining...full scholarships.

On 06/14/10 04:16 pm, Robert Green wrote:

Alan Blinder, a Princeton professor and former Federal Reserve vice
chairman, says it won't be surprising years from now if a carpenter in the
U.S. earns more than a college-educated computer operator. In fact, the data
suggest that education bears little relationship to jobs that are vulnerable
to offshoring, he says.

On balance, Blinder says, "there's little doubt a college education is a
good investment for most students."

But he offers this advice: "Don't train yourself or your children [in work]
that a computer can do or a smart kid in China or India can do. Because
that's ferocious competition."

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...021,full.story

It's not even China or India we have to worry about now. Some of the
Taiwanese companies that set up factories in China because wages were
rising in Taiwan are now moving production to Vietnam, where wages are
lower still and the exchange rate to the US$ is more favorable. E.g.,
FoxConn (which I understand makes the iPad for Apple) now has factories
in Vietnam.

Employment, like water, flows downhill -- to the place that has the
lowest-paid sufficiently qualified workers.

Perce

Robert Green wrote:
Alan Blinder, a Princeton professor and former Federal Reserve vice
chairman, says it won't be surprising years from now if a carpenter in the
U.S. earns more than a college-educated computer operator. In fact, the data
suggest that education bears little relationship to jobs that are vulnerable
to offshoring, he says.

On balance, Blinder says, "there's little doubt a college education is a
good investment for most students."

But he offers this advice: "Don't train yourself or your children [in work]
that a computer can do or a smart kid in China or India can do. Because
that's ferocious competition."

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...021,full.story



Hi,
No doube blue color trade people has jobs all the time no matter what.
comp. operators are dying breed.

On 2010-06-14, Robert Green wrote:
Alan Blinder, a Princeton professor and former Federal Reserve vice
chairman, says it won't be surprising years from now if a carpenter in the
U.S. earns more than a college-educated computer operator. In fact, the data
suggest that education bears little relationship to jobs that are vulnerable
to offshoring, he says.

But he offers this advice: "Don't train yourself or your children [in work]
that a computer can do or a smart kid in China or India can do. Because
that's ferocious competition."

Lying dirtbag piece of pond scum!

Just like politicians and big business have allowed exportation or
H1-B visa displacement of high tech jobs, there is intentionally no
control of illegals flooding across our borders to replace blue collar
workers. Carpenters and most construction workers are still making
under $15 an hour, the same as they did 30 yrs ago. Semi-skilled
workers are being replaced just as quickly as skilled and high-tech
workers.

Has India or China created any new technologies? Is there really any
creative innovation happening in those mono-cultural countries? Hell
no. No ipads, no hybrid cars, no green revolution. No Apple or GM.
No biotech or medical breakthroughs.

Anyone who thinks the power elite in this country isn't doing
everything it can to keep the masses ignorant is living in a fools
paradise. Our only recourse is education. Other countries are still
sending their kids to this country to be educated, yet our own leaders
are trying to discourage us from seeking higher education. That
treasonous ******* ought to be flogged around the fleet!

nb

Robert Green wrote:
Alan Blinder, a Princeton professor and former Federal Reserve vice
chairman, says it won't be surprising years from now if a carpenter in the
U.S. earns more than a college-educated computer operator. In fact, the data
suggest that education bears little relationship to jobs that are vulnerable
to offshoring, he says.

On balance, Blinder says, "there's little doubt a college education is a
good investment for most students."

But he offers this advice: "Don't train yourself or your children [in work]
that a computer can do or a smart kid in China or India can do. Because
that's ferocious competition."

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...021,full.story



Guess what? Carpenters will also have to BE computer operators at some
point. Especially free-lance 'jack of all trades' guys doing remodels
from plans provided on disk or e-mail. (Go to any boutique kitchen shop,
and see how they do designs and takeoffs.) Production wood-working
machines, like at a mill, already are sort of like cad-cam machines.
Jobsite tools will likely be that way soon. Some basic level of computer
literacy will soon become a basic requirement of ALL jobs, just like
reading, writing, and basic math did a century ago, when many
blue-collar jobs were held by functional illiterates.

--
aem sends...

Just like politicians and big business have allowed exportation or
H1-B visa displacement of high tech jobs, there is intentionally no
control of illegals flooding across our borders to replace blue collar
workers. Carpenters and most construction workers are still making
under $15 an hour, the same as they did 30 yrs ago. Semi-skilled
workers are being replaced just as quickly as skilled and high-tech
workers.

I suspect "carpenter" was mentioned because that's the trade most "white
collar" types think about.

The "money" trades a electrician, HVAC tech, and plumber.

Mechanic is close up there.

Painters, dry wall workers, rough and finish carpenters, and roofers are a
step above the grounds keepers and common laborers.


Anyone who thinks the power elite in this country isn't doing
everything it can to keep the masses ignorant is living in a fools
paradise. Our only recourse is education. Other countries are still
sending their kids to this country to be educated, yet our own leaders
are trying to discourage us from seeking higher education. That
treasonous ******* ought to be flogged around the fleet!

Actually, a very high portion of the foreigners "educated" in the US try
very hard to get employment here.

The key is whether you (or your kid) is "college matrial."

If the kid is literally, "Mensa Smart," he is college material even if he is
a tad on the lazy side.

If the kid is willing to work hard and got very good grades in HS, then he
is college material.

The rest really should look at careers that don't require college and try to
get a running start on life ahead of their peers. (Insurance and real
estate don't require college, for example.)

Kids who are reasonably bright but don't like school and CAN work hard
should look into going into business for themselves. Most of the
"tradesmen" mentioned above can, if they have the ambition, become
independent contractors.



nb

aemeijers wrote:
Robert Green wrote:
Alan Blinder, a Princeton professor and former Federal Reserve vice
chairman, says it won't be surprising years from now if a carpenter in
the
U.S. earns more than a college-educated computer operator. In fact,
the data
suggest that education bears little relationship to jobs that are
vulnerable
to offshoring, he says.

On balance, Blinder says, "there's little doubt a college education is a
good investment for most students."

But he offers this advice: "Don't train yourself or your children [in
work]
that a computer can do or a smart kid in China or India can do. Because
that's ferocious competition."

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...021,full.story




Guess what? Carpenters will also have to BE computer operators at some
point. Especially free-lance 'jack of all trades' guys doing remodels
from plans provided on disk or e-mail. (Go to any boutique kitchen shop,
and see how they do designs and takeoffs.) Production wood-working
machines, like at a mill, already are sort of like cad-cam machines.
Jobsite tools will likely be that way soon. Some basic level of computer
literacy will soon become a basic requirement of ALL jobs, just like
reading, writing, and basic math did a century ago, when many
blue-collar jobs were held by functional illiterates.


Computer operator is an archaic term...my grandkids operated computers
at age one: turn it on, navigate to their games or insert CD )

wrote in message

stuff snipped

But he offers this advice: "Don't train yourself or your children [in
work]
that a computer can do or a smart kid in China or India can do. Because
that's ferocious competition."


http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...0,5466021,full.
story



Computer "operator"? That is not a particularly skilled job. Was he
thinking "programmer". Even so, I agree, there is a guy in India that
will do that for $40 a day. The internet has made it such that it
doesn't matter whether your cubicle is down the hall or half way
around the world. Halfway around the world is cheaper.

The point is that skilled trades are the last thing to get exported because
it's not practical to have someone in New Delhi fix your plugged up sink.
Not until they develop cheap teleportation like Star Trek. In the current
market, having a BA in English is likely to get you a job slinging burgers.

The worst part of all this is kids are starting their careers $50 to $100K
in debt for a college education from a named school. Unless they go to Wall
Street, there's no way they can pay that loan off in this economy. It's
just another in the row of dominoes that is falling over that used to be a
vibrant national economy.

--
Bobby G.

On Jun 14, 5:33*pm, notbob wrote:

Lying dirtbag piece of pond scum!

Just like politicians and big business have allowed exportation or
H1-B visa displacement of high tech jobs, there is intentionally no
control of illegals flooding across our borders to replace blue collar
workers. *Carpenters and most construction workers are still making
under $15 an hour, the same as they did 30 yrs ago. *Semi-skilled
workers are being replaced just as quickly as skilled and high-tech
workers.

Has India or China created any new technologies? *Is there really any
creative innovation happening in those mono-cultural countries? *Hell
no. *No ipads, no hybrid cars, no green revolution. *No Apple or GM.
No biotech or medical breakthroughs. * * *

Anyone who thinks the power elite in this country isn't doing
everything it can to keep the masses ignorant is living in a fools
paradise. *Our only recourse is education. *Other countries are still
sending their kids to this country to be educated, yet our own leaders
are trying to discourage us from seeking higher education. *That
treasonous ******* ought to be flogged around the fleet!

nb *




Okay, now that we heard from the paranoid section.

wrote:

These days a journeyman Electrician card can get you a job cutting
lawns. In case you haven't noticed, the building business is dead in
most places.

I don't know. I retired as a computer programmer about 5 years ago. I got an
apprentice electrician card so I could volunteer for Habitat for Humanity. I
get lots of cold call job offers based on that card.. Not as much money, but I
could certainly stay busy.

-- Doug

On Jun 14, 7:03*pm, "Robert Green" wrote:
wrote in message

stuff snipped





But he offers this advice: "Don't train yourself or your children [in
work]
that a computer can do or a smart kid in China or India can do. Because
that's ferocious competition."

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...0612,0,5466021.....
story

Computer "operator"? That is not a particularly skilled job. Was he
thinking "programmer". Even so, I agree, there is a guy in India that
will do that for $40 a day. The internet has made it such that it
doesn't matter whether your cubicle is down the hall or half way
around the world. Halfway around the world is cheaper.

The point is that skilled trades are the last thing to get exported because
it's not practical to have someone in New Delhi fix your plugged up sink.
Not until they develop cheap teleportation like Star Trek. *In the current
market, having a BA in English is likely to get you a job slinging burgers.

The worst part of all this is kids are starting their careers $50 to $100K
in debt for a college education from a named school. *Unless they go to Wall
Street, there's no way they can pay that loan off in this economy. *It's
just another in the row of dominoes that is falling over that used to be a
vibrant national economy.

--
Bobby G.

The trades may be the last thing to get exported, but who's to say
they won't be exported? Modular home construction, in huge warehouses
in cheap areas of the US, is already taking off. It's not a huge leap
to imagine that happening in China. Sure, it will take a few weeks
for your home to arrive, but if you can get it for half price?

On 6/15/2010 7:41 AM cubby spake thus:

On Jun 14, 7:03 pm, "Robert Green" wrote:

wrote in message

stuff snipped

But he offers this advice: "Don't train yourself or your
children [in work] that a computer can do or a smart kid in
China or India can do. Because that's ferocious competition."

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...0612,0,5466021....

Computer "operator"? That is not a particularly skilled job. Was he
thinking "programmer". Even so, I agree, there is a guy in India that
will do that for $40 a day. The internet has made it such that it
doesn't matter whether your cubicle is down the hall or half way
around the world. Halfway around the world is cheaper.

The point is that skilled trades are the last thing to get exported because
it's not practical to have someone in New Delhi fix your plugged up sink.
Not until they develop cheap teleportation like Star Trek. In the current
market, having a BA in English is likely to get you a job slinging burgers.

The worst part of all this is kids are starting their careers $50 to $100K
in debt for a college education from a named school. Unless they go to Wall
Street, there's no way they can pay that loan off in this economy. It's
just another in the row of dominoes that is falling over that used to be a
vibrant national economy.

The trades may be the last thing to get exported, but who's to say
they won't be exported? Modular home construction, in huge warehouses
in cheap areas of the US, is already taking off. It's not a huge leap
to imagine that happening in China. Sure, it will take a few weeks
for your home to arrive, but if you can get it for half price?

Even so, houses still can't be plugged into their foundations as if they
were giant Lego pieces. You still need skilled trades to pour
foundations and slabs, run electric service, plumbing, etc.

Unless you're suggesting that all these tradespeople will somehow come
in a package with the house from China or India. Maybe compressed into
one of those gigantic plastic bags that you hook your vacuum cleaner up
to. Presto! instant crew.


--
The fashion in killing has an insouciant, flirty style this spring,
with the flaunting of well-defined muscle, wrapped in flags.

- Comment from an article on Antiwar.com (http://antiwar.com)

wrote:

The HOA here pays a guy $45 to mow a 1/4 acre lot. It takes him about
20 minutes on a lawn tractor. Are you getting more than that?

Nah. I don't make anything. I was just mentioning I got lots of offers. I
don't take any of them.

Ironically, the local Habitat decided to contract out their electrical work
instead of using volunteers with apprentice licenses supervised by a real
electrician. Times is hard when you get laid off from an unpaid job.

-- Doug

On 06/14/2010 04:48 PM, wrote:
Robert Green wrote:
Alan Blinder, a Princeton professor and former Federal Reserve vice
chairman, says it won't be surprising years from now if a carpenter in
the
U.S. earns more than a college-educated computer operator. In fact,
the data
suggest that education bears little relationship to jobs that are
vulnerable
to offshoring, he says.

On balance, Blinder says, "there's little doubt a college education is a
good investment for most students."

But he offers this advice: "Don't train yourself or your children [in
work]
that a computer can do or a smart kid in China or India can do. Because
that's ferocious competition."

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...021,full.story




Gee, let's send all our addicts and convicts on probation to India for
rehab and retraining...full scholarships.
Lets send all criminals to China to do prison time and re-education
and see if they want to re-offend. It's bound to be cheaper than what
it cost in the U.S. and I'll bet we get better results.

Douglas Johnson wrote:

Ironically, the local Habitat decided to contract out their electrical work
instead of using volunteers with apprentice licenses supervised by a real
electrician. Times is hard when you get laid off from an unpaid job.

-- Doug

Liability issues?

On 2010-06-15, wrote:

problem tho. It turns out Americans will do those jobs.

Which makes all them scumsucking politicians a buncha lying dirtbags.
"Illegals only do the jobs Americans are unwilling to do." What
horsecrap!

Americans only quit doing many jobs cuz they were once making twice as
much money doing them and they couldn't afford to live their current
lifestyle at the 50% cut in wages/pay illegals forced. Now that a
large portion of Americans have lost their homes, cars, retirement,
etc, and are reduced to working multiple jobs just to get by, yes,
they can and will do them rather than live in the street. Americans
have learned they don't really need that $40K new car every 3 yrs or
cathedral ceiling'd homes or all that other consumer bull**** that tv
would have us believe.

Where I now live the cost of living is low enough that honkey
Americans gladly do the jobs other higher std-of-living places make
impractical. Yes, young white kids DO work in food service and
construction, just like the old days. Consequently, there are few
illegals hereabouts, there being little work for them. Besides, I've
discovered the high living lifestyle I used to have before greed
destroyed our economy wasn't all that great, after all. Life is now
heaven compared to the nightmare is was formerly convinced I was happy
in.

Oooh.... there go two white-water rafters down the river I overlook
from my front window.

nb

"David Nebenzahl" wrote in message
.com...

Unless you're suggesting that all these tradespeople will somehow come in
a package with the house from China or India. Maybe compressed into one
of those gigantic plastic bags that you hook your vacuum cleaner up to.
Presto! instant crew.

There's an outfit around here, which offers imported lawn fertilizing.

They have this van loaded with illegal Mexicans. They feed them a few
burritos, the Mexicans hop out & **** all people's yards.

Supposing we get EMP bombed. A farmer with a donkey is worth more than
a programmer who knows three languages. The farmer's ass continues to
be useful. The computer programmer might get a job sitting on his
donkey all day.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Robert Green" wrote in message
...
Alan Blinder, a Princeton professor and former Federal Reserve vice
chairman, says it won't be surprising years from now if a carpenter in
the
U.S. earns more than a college-educated computer operator. In fact,
the data
suggest that education bears little relationship to jobs that are
vulnerable
to offshoring, he says.

On balance, Blinder says, "there's little doubt a college education is
a
good investment for most students."

But he offers this advice: "Don't train yourself or your children [in
work]
that a computer can do or a smart kid in China or India can do.
Because
that's ferocious competition."

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...021,full.story

"cubby" wrote in message
...
On Jun 14, 7:03 pm, "Robert Green" wrote:
wrote in message

stuff snipped





But he offers this advice: "Don't train yourself or your children [in
work]
that a computer can do or a smart kid in China or India can do. Because
that's ferocious competition."

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...0612,0,5466021....
story

Computer "operator"? That is not a particularly skilled job. Was he
thinking "programmer". Even so, I agree, there is a guy in India that
will do that for $40 a day. The internet has made it such that it
doesn't matter whether your cubicle is down the hall or half way
around the world. Halfway around the world is cheaper.

The point is that skilled trades are the last thing to get exported
because
it's not practical to have someone in New Delhi fix your plugged up sink.
Not until they develop cheap teleportation like Star Trek. In the current
market, having a BA in English is likely to get you a job slinging
burgers.

The worst part of all this is kids are starting their careers $50 to $100K
in debt for a college education from a named school. Unless they go to
Wall
Street, there's no way they can pay that loan off in this economy. It's
just another in the row of dominoes that is falling over that used to be a
vibrant national economy.

--
Bobby G.

The trades may be the last thing to get exported, but who's to say
they won't be exported? Modular home construction, in huge warehouses
in cheap areas of the US, is already taking off. It's not a huge leap
to imagine that happening in China. Sure, it will take a few weeks
for your home to arrive, but if you can get it for half price?

At the rate I have to patch things around the house (largely because of
cheap manufacturing techniques or bad design or someother inherent vice)
there will always be work for handymen in this country. Just today the fax
machine failed. I'll probably be able to figure it out myself. Sadly, it's
cheaper to buy a new one than to pay someone to look at it.

--
Bobby G.