Here's the application. I have a solar pool controller located
outside a single family house that puts out 24V which will go to a
relay located in the attic. The controller is about 6 feet away from
the house, so the circuit will go from the relay in the attic, down
the outside of the house behind a pipe, but then needs to go
underground for the last 6 feet to the pool controller. Besides the
relay circuit, there will also be 4 other wires for sensors. So, I
need a 20 gauge cable with 6 or 7 conductors.

I've searched high and low online and can't find any wire that will
meet code. Everything that is CL2 or CL2X rated, eg thermostat cable
is NOT rated for direct burial. And anything that is rated for
direct burial, eg irrigation/sprinkler cable, is NOT rated CL2.
Anyone know of any such cable that is 20 or 18 gauge? And am I right,
per NEC 725 that I can't just use the sprinkler cable for the whole
run?

What are my other options? I'm thinking I could mount a small
weatherproof box on the side of the house near ground level and
transition from CL2 to sprinkler wire for the last 6 feet
underground. Or can I use the CL2 thermostat type wire and then put
it inside PVC conduit for the underground run avoiding the splice?
Is there a flexible PVC I could run, like is flextight allowed
underground for low voltage?

This has to pass electrical inspection as other work is being done
too.

And this got me thinking. All the irrigation installs I've seen just
use irrigation cable that is not CL rated and yet they bring it inside
garages, basements, etc. That would seem to be a technical violation
of NEC 725, no? Do they just get away with it because it's a short
run and/or there is no electrical inspection done?

In ,
typed:
Here's the application. I have a solar pool controller
located outside a single family house that puts out 24V
which will go to a relay located in the attic. The
controller is about 6 feet away from the house, so the
circuit will go from the relay in the attic, down the
outside of the house behind a pipe, but then needs to go
underground for the last 6 feet to the pool controller.
Besides the relay circuit, there will also be 4 other wires
for sensors. So, I need a 20 gauge cable with 6 or 7
conductors.

I've searched high and low online and can't find any wire
that will meet code. Everything that is CL2 or CL2X
rated, eg thermostat cable is NOT rated for direct burial.
And anything that is rated for direct burial, eg
irrigation/sprinkler cable, is NOT rated CL2. Anyone know
of any such cable that is 20 or 18 gauge? And am I right,
per NEC 725 that I can't just use the sprinkler cable for
the whole run?

What are my other options? I'm thinking I could mount a
small weatherproof box on the side of the house near ground
level and transition from CL2 to sprinkler wire for the
last 6 feet underground. Or can I use the CL2 thermostat
type wire and then put it inside PVC conduit for the
underground run avoiding the splice?
Is there a flexible PVC I could run, like is flextight
allowed underground for low voltage?

This has to pass electrical inspection as other work is
being done too.

And this got me thinking. All the irrigation installs
I've seen just use irrigation cable that is not CL rated
and yet they bring it inside garages, basements, etc.
That would seem to be a technical violation of NEC 725, no?
Do they just get away with it because it's a short run
and/or there is no electrical inspection done?

Look into phone wiring; I don't know what it's called but they do have 24
Ga weather cable; not sure about buried for a cable with that few pairs, but
might be something useful. Smallest I've noticed, IIRC, is 12 pair 24ga
twisted for underground use.

HTH,

Twayne`

On Jun 14, 10:39*am, "Twaynes" wrote:
,
typed:





Here's the application. *I have a solar pool controller
located outside a single family house that puts out 24V
which will go to a relay located in the attic. * The
controller is about 6 feet away from the house, so the
circuit will go from the relay in the attic, down the
outside of the house behind a pipe, but then needs to go
underground for the last 6 feet to the pool controller.
Besides the relay circuit, there will also be 4 other wires
for sensors. * So, I need a 20 gauge cable with 6 or 7
conductors.

I've searched high and low online and can't find any wire
that will meet code. * Everything that is CL2 or CL2X
rated, eg thermostat cable is NOT rated for direct burial.
And anything that is rated for direct burial, eg
irrigation/sprinkler cable, is NOT rated CL2. Anyone know
of any such cable that is 20 or 18 gauge? *And am I right,
per NEC 725 that I can't just use the sprinkler cable for
the whole run?

What are my other options? * I'm thinking I could mount a
small weatherproof box on the side of the house near ground
level and transition from CL2 to sprinkler wire for the
last 6 feet underground. * *Or can I use the CL2 thermostat
type wire and then put it inside PVC conduit for the
underground run avoiding the splice?
Is there a flexible PVC I could run, like is flextight
allowed underground for low voltage?

This has to pass electrical inspection as other work is
being done too.

And this got me thinking. * All the irrigation installs
I've seen just use irrigation cable that is not CL rated
and yet they bring it inside garages, basements, etc.
That would seem to be a technical violation of NEC 725, no?
Do they just get away with it because it's a short run
and/or there is no electrical inspection done?

Look into phone wiring; I don't know what it's called but they do have *24
Ga weather cable; not sure about buried for a cable with that few pairs, but
might be something useful. Smallest I've noticed, IIRC, is 12 pair 24ga
twisted for underground use.

HTH,

Twayne`- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

24 is a bit light for any distance/current.

wrote:
Here's the application. I have a solar pool controller located
outside a single family house that puts out 24V which will go to a
relay located in the attic. The controller is about 6 feet away from
the house, so the circuit will go from the relay in the attic, down
the outside of the house behind a pipe, but then needs to go
underground for the last 6 feet to the pool controller. Besides the
relay circuit, there will also be 4 other wires for sensors. So, I
need a 20 gauge cable with 6 or 7 conductors.

I've searched high and low online and can't find any wire that will
meet code. Everything that is CL2 or CL2X rated, eg thermostat cable
is NOT rated for direct burial. And anything that is rated for
direct burial, eg irrigation/sprinkler cable, is NOT rated CL2.
Anyone know of any such cable that is 20 or 18 gauge? And am I right,
per NEC 725 that I can't just use the sprinkler cable for the whole
run?

What are my other options? I'm thinking I could mount a small
weatherproof box on the side of the house near ground level and
transition from CL2 to sprinkler wire for the last 6 feet
underground. Or can I use the CL2 thermostat type wire and then put
it inside PVC conduit for the underground run avoiding the splice?

I would want direct burial to be a lot tougher than any CL2 I have seen.
Buried conduit should have wire that is wet rated. CL2 can be marked WET
- don't know if it actually exists. I would prefer something like #14
THHN/THWN in buried conduit and splice at the house.

CL cables are tested for flame spread and maybe smoke and fuel
contribution to a fire. Didn't see where non-CL2 is allowed, but it
doesn't make sense that conventional wiring is not allowed. The class 2
source limits the voltage, current and power (except in Twayne's world).

Is there a flexible PVC I could run, like is flextight allowed
underground for low voltage?

This has to pass electrical inspection as other work is being done
too.

And this got me thinking. All the irrigation installs I've seen just
use irrigation cable that is not CL rated and yet they bring it inside
garages, basements, etc. That would seem to be a technical violation
of NEC 725, no? Do they just get away with it because it's a short
run and/or there is no electrical inspection done?

Never had anything to do with irrigation (lawn sprinklers?). Would think
there wouldn't be much fire of smoke hazard from small amounts of the wire.

Sounds like the classical "ask the inspector". Their answers would be
interesting.

--
bud--

In article , writes:

| I've searched high and low online and can't find any wire that will
| meet code. Everything that is CL2 or CL2X rated, eg thermostat cable
| is NOT rated for direct burial. And anything that is rated for
| direct burial, eg irrigation/sprinkler cable, is NOT rated CL2.

Google Cable Substitution Chart. You can almost always use a variety of
CM cable where you can use CL2, and CM cable is available with a wider
range of characteristics.

Dan Lanciani
ddl@danlan.*com

On Jun 14, 4:34*pm, ddl@danlan.*com (Dan Lanciani) wrote:
In article , writes:

| I've searched high and low online and can't find any wire that will
| meet code. * Everything that is CL2 or CL2X rated, eg thermostat cable
| is NOT rated for direct burial. * And anything that is rated for
| direct burial, eg irrigation/sprinkler cable, is NOT rated CL2.

Google Cable Substitution Chart. *You can almost always use a variety of
CM cable where you can use CL2, and CM cable is available with a wider
range of characteristics.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Dan Lanciani
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ddl@danlan.*com



Thanks for all the input guys. I think I've figured out what to
do. I'm going to use CL rated thermostat type cable in the attic
from the relay over to a new small junction box located inside the
attic by the eaves. Inside the box I'll transition from that CL
cable to sprinkler cable that is underground rated. From there it
will go directly outside, secured with cable ties to the back of a
2"PVC pipe, down to the ground, where it will get buried for the last
7 feet to the pool controller.

AFAIK from reading the codes, that should meet all the requirements.
It turned out better from cable availability in reasonable lengths/
prices and also ultimately a single cable would have to go to 2
different locatons, so I can just split it off at the attic box.

The only remaining thing I'm left wondering about is how deep does it
have to be underground? There is nothing in NEC 725 about it
specific to Class 2 power limited circuits that I could find. Since
it's only 7 ft, I guess I'll just make it 2ft and then I'll be OK for
sure, but clearly they route similar sprinkler cable from controllers
inside houses to underground and only bury them 6" or even less.

In ,
jamesgangnc typed:
On Jun 14, 10:39 am, "Twaynes"
wrote:
,
typed:





Here's the application. I have a solar pool controller
located outside a single family house that puts out 24V
which will go to a relay located in the attic. The
controller is about 6 feet away from the house, so the
circuit will go from the relay in the attic, down the
outside of the house behind a pipe, but then needs to go
underground for the last 6 feet to the pool controller.
Besides the relay circuit, there will also be 4 other
wires for sensors. So, I need a 20 gauge cable with 6
or 7 conductors.

I've searched high and low online and can't find any wire
that will meet code. Everything that is CL2 or CL2X
rated, eg thermostat cable is NOT rated for direct burial.
And anything that is rated for direct burial, eg
irrigation/sprinkler cable, is NOT rated CL2. Anyone know
of any such cable that is 20 or 18 gauge? And am I right,
per NEC 725 that I can't just use the sprinkler cable for
the whole run?

What are my other options? I'm thinking I could mount a
small weatherproof box on the side of the house near
ground level and transition from CL2 to sprinkler wire
for the last 6 feet underground. Or can I use the CL2
thermostat type wire and then put it inside PVC conduit
for the underground run avoiding the splice?
Is there a flexible PVC I could run, like is flextight
allowed underground for low voltage?

This has to pass electrical inspection as other work is
being done too.

And this got me thinking. All the irrigation installs
I've seen just use irrigation cable that is not CL rated
and yet they bring it inside garages, basements, etc.
That would seem to be a technical violation of NEC 725,
no? Do they just get away with it because it's a short run
and/or there is no electrical inspection done?

Look into phone wiring; I don't know what it's called but
they do have 24 Ga weather cable; not sure about buried
for a cable with that few pairs, but might be something
useful. Smallest I've noticed, IIRC, is 12 pair 24ga
twisted for underground use.

HTH,

Twayne`- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

24 is a bit light for any distance/current.

Duhh, it meets or exceeds what the OP said he wanted.

In article ,
"Twaynes" wrote:

In ,
jamesgangnc typed:


24 is a bit light for any distance/current.

Duhh, it meets or exceeds what the OP said he wanted.

Duh, OP said 20 AWG. Twice.

wrote:
On Jun 14, 4:34 pm, ddl@danlan.*com (Dan Lanciani) wrote:
In article , writes:

| I've searched high and low online and can't find any wire that will
| meet code. Everything that is CL2 or CL2X rated, eg thermostat cable
| is NOT rated for direct burial. And anything that is rated for
| direct burial, eg irrigation/sprinkler cable, is NOT rated CL2.

Google Cable Substitution Chart. You can almost always use a variety of
CM cable where you can use CL2, and CM cable is available with a wider
range of characteristics.

Dan Lanciani
ddl@danlan.*com



Thanks for all the input guys. I think I've figured out what to
do. I'm going to use CL rated thermostat type cable in the attic
from the relay over to a new small junction box located inside the
attic by the eaves. Inside the box I'll transition from that CL
cable to sprinkler cable that is underground rated. From there it
will go directly outside, secured with cable ties to the back of a
2"PVC pipe, down to the ground, where it will get buried for the last
7 feet to the pool controller.

My reading of 725 is that it wants conventional wiring or CL or CM or
maybe PTLC. Don't think sprinkler cable is one of them. But it seems
entirely reasonable with the circuit having class 2 protection. (If the
inspector doesn't agree, sprinkler cable would, of course, be entirely
unreasonable.)

About 25 years ago, before the code came up with CL wiring, the class 2
source was considered to protect about anything (except in Twayne's
world). Seems excessively restrictive now.


AFAIK from reading the codes, that should meet all the requirements.
It turned out better from cable availability in reasonable lengths/
prices and also ultimately a single cable would have to go to 2
different locatons, so I can just split it off at the attic box.

The only remaining thing I'm left wondering about is how deep does it
have to be underground? There is nothing in NEC 725 about it
specific to Class 2 power limited circuits that I could find. Since
it's only 7 ft, I guess I'll just make it 2ft and then I'll be OK for
sure, but clearly they route similar sprinkler cable from controllers
inside houses to underground and only bury them 6" or even less.

IMHO the consideration is system reliability.

--
bud--