I have installed CB sub-panels many a times with no problem because I
can disconnect the live wires at the main panel. In the old house I
am fixing, I need to replace the all-fuse MAIN panel with a new CB
panel. Do I need to contact the power company to disconnect the
juice, or is there another way of doing it? I do not want to mess
with the 240 volt supply because it may hurt a bit (i.e., kill me).
BTW: how do certified electricians go about disconnecting the live
wires before doing a similar job? Thanks

On May 9, 9:47*pm, Hat wrote:
I have installed CB sub-panels many a times with no problem because I
can disconnect the live wires at the main panel. *In the old house I
am fixing, I need to replace the all-fuse MAIN panel with a new CB
panel. *Do I need to contact the power company to disconnect the
juice, or is there another way of doing it? *I do not want to mess
with the 240 volt supply because it may hurt a bit (i.e., kill me).
BTW: how do certified electricians go about disconnecting *the live
wires before doing a similar job? *Thanks

You contract the power company to come and remove the electric meter.
That disconnects the entire house so you better have battery operated
tool to do your job. THe power company may let you reinstall the
meter if you act competent enough to do it without killing yourself.
It just pulls straight out after you remove the metal band that holds
the meter in place and which has a metal tag/seal holding it in place
so you cannot bypass the meter without them knowing the seal was
broken.

On Sun, 09 May 2010 23:40:21 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 9 May 2010 19:47:00 -0700 (PDT), Hat wrote:

I have installed CB sub-panels many a times with no problem because I
can disconnect the live wires at the main panel. In the old house I
am fixing, I need to replace the all-fuse MAIN panel with a new CB
panel. Do I need to contact the power company to disconnect the
juice, or is there another way of doing it? I do not want to mess
with the 240 volt supply because it may hurt a bit (i.e., kill me).
BTW: how do certified electricians go about disconnecting the live
wires before doing a similar job? Thanks

Each power company has it's own rules. If you don't have a permit, a
common dodge is to say you are replacing a defective main breaker and
you need to cut the seal. and pull the meter.
They may just say OK and come seal it later. Other POCOs want to read
the meter before you cut the seal and they may want to take it with
them. It really depend a lot on their local fraud experience.
It is a lot better to just pull the permit and have it inspected if
your building department will let you do it yourself.
Then you will have a record for your insurance company and selling the
house might go easier down the road.

Worst case, cut the seal, pull the meter, do the work and put the
meter back in. Call them and say some vandal cut your meter seal. I
doubt they would buy that.

I guess not too many vandals vandalize seals.

Once, when I didn't get around to paying my bill, my power was
disconnected. I rushed out and paid the bill, but then I wondered
when they would actually reconnect me. So there must have been a seal
that I cut; and I pulled out the meter, removed the plastic prong
covers, and put back the meter. And then made dinner. The guy came
an hour later and I told him someone else had come already. Later I
realized -- at least I think so -- that he was the only one doing my
area, and he knew no one else had come. But he hadn't said anything.
I suppose to himself he just smiled, or cursed me for being a liar.

Of course he probably knew I'd been disconnected for failure to pay,
and he had no reason to think I'd been messing with the breaker box,
but would he have cared if he'd thought that?

On 5/9/2010 9:47 PM, Hat wrote:
I have installed CB sub-panels many a times with no problem because I
can disconnect the live wires at the main panel. In the old house I
am fixing, I need to replace the all-fuse MAIN panel with a new CB
panel. Do I need to contact the power company to disconnect the
juice, or is there another way of doing it? I do not want to mess
with the 240 volt supply because it may hurt a bit (i.e., kill me).
BTW: how do certified electricians go about disconnecting the live
wires before doing a similar job? Thanks

pop the seal, remove the meter from the can, then when you get it all
back together, put the meter back in, and hang the broken seal on it.
Chances are, they never come out to read the meter anyway, and if they
do, they'll just put a new seal on it.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

Steve Barker wrote:
On 5/9/2010 9:47 PM, Hat wrote:
I have installed CB sub-panels many a times with no problem because I
can disconnect the live wires at the main panel. In the old house I
am fixing, I need to replace the all-fuse MAIN panel with a new CB
panel. Do I need to contact the power company to disconnect the
juice, or is there another way of doing it? I do not want to mess
with the 240 volt supply because it may hurt a bit (i.e., kill me).
BTW: how do certified electricians go about disconnecting the live
wires before doing a similar job? Thanks

pop the seal, remove the meter from the can, then when you get it all
back together, put the meter back in, and hang the broken seal on it.
Chances are, they never come out to read the meter anyway, and if they
do, they'll just put a new seal on it.\

Or, if you want to be real radical, you could call the power company and ask
them how they prefer to handle it. They want to make it happen. They don't want
to block these updates. They may just tell you to cut the seal, and remove the
meter as you need.

When I did it, they removed the seal. I did the work, got it inspected, and they
came back, installed new wires to the new head, removed the old wires, and
connected up the meter and seal.

IIRC, I disconnected the old bex from the wall, pulled it out of the way,
installed the new head, conduit, meter box, wires to the head, and breaker box.
I wired jumpers from the old box mains to the new box. Then I transfered wires
for each circuit from the old box to the new when I had the time. Power was down
for a minimal time. When they installed the new power, I removed the jumpers and
the old box.

"Hat" wrote in message
...
I have installed CB sub-panels many a times with no problem because I
can disconnect the live wires at the main panel. In the old house I
am fixing, I need to replace the all-fuse MAIN panel with a new CB
panel. Do I need to contact the power company to disconnect the
juice, or is there another way of doing it? I do not want to mess
with the 240 volt supply because it may hurt a bit (i.e., kill me).
BTW: how do certified electricians go about disconnecting the live
wires before doing a similar job? Thanks

As others have said, you can pull the meter, if the particular utility
company you're dealing with doesn't have a lock on it. This will work
provided you are not going to increase the amperage of the current service.
If your new main is going to be of higher amperage then what's existing,
you'll probably have to replace the meter box and standpipe as well. In some
areas, I suppose, the utility company kills power for you. In NY, where I
am, the electricians cut and rebug the service connections.

On May 10, 6:55*am, "RBM" wrote:
"Hat" wrote in message

...

I have installed CB sub-panels many a times with no problem because I
can disconnect the live wires at the main panel. *In the old house I
am fixing, I need to replace the all-fuse MAIN panel with a new CB
panel. *Do I need to contact the power company to disconnect the
juice, or is there another way of doing it? *I do not want to mess
with the 240 volt supply because it may hurt a bit (i.e., kill me).
BTW: how do certified electricians go about disconnecting *the live
wires before doing a similar job? *Thanks

As others have said, you can pull the meter, if the particular utility
company you're dealing with doesn't have a lock on it. This will work
provided you are not going to increase the amperage of the current service.
If your new main is going to be of higher amperage then what's existing,
you'll probably have to replace the meter box and standpipe as well. In some
areas, I suppose, the utility company kills power for you. In NY, where I
am, the electricians cut and rebug the service connections.

I had my main breaker crap out on me. I cut the seal, pulled the
meter, replaced the main, and then plugged the meter back in. I
called the poco aftewards and told them why I had to do it. They sent
a guy out to put a new seal on. No prob. The type of neighborhood
your old house is in may affect your results though.

Hat wrote:
I have installed CB sub-panels many a times with no problem because I
can disconnect the live wires at the main panel. In the old house I
am fixing, I need to replace the all-fuse MAIN panel with a new CB
panel. Do I need to contact the power company to disconnect the
juice, or is there another way of doing it? I do not want to mess
with the 240 volt supply because it may hurt a bit (i.e., kill me).
BTW: how do certified electricians go about disconnecting the live
wires before doing a similar job? Thanks

"Disconnecting the juice" is accomplished, as others have said, by simply
unplugging the meter.

Whether you have to contact the power company, get a permit, have the work
done by a licensed electriction, make sure the work is inspected, submit
drawings and plans to the appropriate city office, or use only UL-approved
devices is a matter determined by your local rules.

In my case, a call to the power company was all that was required. They came
out within six hours (their standard), cut the seal, and read the meter.
When my work was completed, another call and they returned to re-seal the
meter (within twelve hours).

Hint: Label all the wires with numbered tags, noting the amperage of the
existing fuse serving the wires. Take several digital pictures. Do not have
the celebratory beer for a job well done until after the final "smoke test."

On May 10, 8:58�am, "HeyBub" wrote:
Hat wrote:
I have installed CB sub-panels many a times with no problem because I
can disconnect the live wires at the main panel. �In the old house I
am fixing, I need to replace the all-fuse MAIN panel with a new CB
panel. �Do I need to contact the power company to disconnect the
juice, or is there another way of doing it? �I do not want to mess
with the 240 volt supply because it may hurt a bit (i.e., kill me).
BTW: how do certified electricians go about disconnecting �the live
wires before doing a similar job? �Thanks

"Disconnecting the juice" is accomplished, as others have said, by simply
unplugging the meter.

Whether you have to contact the power company, get a permit, have the work
done by a licensed electriction, make sure the work is inspected, submit
drawings and plans to the appropriate city office, or use only UL-approved
devices is a matter determined by your local rules.

In my case, a call to the power company was all that was required. They came
out within six hours (their standard), cut the seal, and read the meter.
When my work was completed, another call and they returned to re-seal the
meter (within twelve hours).

Hint: Label all the wires with numbered tags, noting the amperage of the
existing fuse serving the wires. Take several digital pictures. Do not have
the celebratory beer for a job well done until after the final "smoke test."

I certinally hope your replacing not just the main panel but also the
main service line and meter can. upgrade to 200 amps too this future
proofs your install......

pick a manel panel thats locally popular, for easy access to
replacement breakers.

and dont forget proper grounding

If you are asking this question, then I can only presume that you should not be
doing
the work. Hire a qualified electrician to "side job" it for you.

Some utility companies will do one free dis/reconnect without questions, or a
permit.

If you must do the work yourself there are insulated, mechanical terminals that
may
be used to facilitate the easy dis/reconnection of the pre-meter conductors.
They
are manufactured by Polaris. If you have not done a live splice before, forget
about
it. Is your life worth a shortcut?

They make a cheaper product than this one, but this gives the general idea:

http://www.polarisconnectors.com/pdf...ctors/SSWB.pdf

Again, if you don't know what you are doing and need someone to hold your hand,
don't
do this. After the work is complete you may leave them on or have the utility
company
come out and "properly" connect the service. That's your call.

As for removing the meter and working on the post meter wiring, some of the
seals may be
cut in a fashion that will allow repeated removal and installation of the seal,
thus providing
the same ability for the meter itself. Do the work and play dumb if questioned.
Though,
as someone else suggested, it would be a good idea to upgrade your meter main to
a
larger service, but this makes me ask, "does the meter not have a disconnect?"

I have not been doing a thorough read of this topic and might have missed some
information
that you have presented. So, forgive me if I am a bit presumptuous or seem to
be speaking
without all of the facts.

Number One: Be safe and do it right. It would suck to survive the install only
to die in a fire.

On May 10, 10:24*pm, "MIB" wrote:
If you are asking this question, then I can only presume that you should not be
doing
the work. *Hire a qualified electrician to "side job" it for you.

Some utility companies will do one free dis/reconnect without questions, or a
permit.

If you must do the work yourself there are insulated, mechanical terminals that
may
be used to facilitate the easy dis/reconnection of the pre-meter conductors.
They
are manufactured by Polaris. *If you have not done a live splice before, forget
about
it. *Is your life worth a shortcut?

They make a cheaper product than this one, but this gives the general idea:

http://www.polarisconnectors.com/pdf...ghting_Connect...

Again, if you don't know what you are doing and need someone to hold your hand,
don't
do this. *After the work is complete you may leave them on or have the utility
company
come out and "properly" connect the service. *That's your call.

As for removing the meter and working on the post meter wiring, some of the
seals may be
cut in a fashion that will allow repeated removal and installation of the seal,
thus providing
the same ability for the meter itself. *Do the work and play dumb if questioned.
Though,
as someone else suggested, it would be a good idea to upgrade your meter main to
a
larger service, but this makes me ask, "does the meter not have a disconnect?"

I have not been doing a thorough read of this topic and might have missed some
information
that you have presented. *So, forgive me if I am a bit presumptuous or seem to
be speaking
without all of the facts.

Number One: *Be safe and do it right. *It would suck to survive the install only
to die in a fire.

You clearly don't know what you are talking about. Home service
meters do not have a disconnect. Seals are not "reusable". You are
presumptuous to advice the OP he's not capable of handling this task
and then go one to give misinformed information.

Hat wrote:
I have installed CB sub-panels many a times with no problem because I
can disconnect the live wires at the main panel. In the old house I
am fixing, I need to replace the all-fuse MAIN panel with a new CB
panel. Do I need to contact the power company to disconnect the
juice, or is there another way of doing it? I do not want to mess
with the 240 volt supply because it may hurt a bit (i.e., kill me).
BTW: how do certified electricians go about disconnecting the live
wires before doing a similar job? Thanks

If you are installing the same amperage panel, the old wires may not be
long enough. Replacing the wires from a meter socket with a hot supply
side is hazardous, particularly in the old sockets that did not shield
the meter jaws. The hazard is not only electrocution, but the high
currents that you can get if there is an inadvertent short - somewhere
like 5,000-10,000 amps with not a lot of protection from the utility.
Tools can vaporize.

If doing the same amp rating and the wires are long enough, pulling the
meter should be OK. Else, an electrician might cut the service wires at
the utility connection and reconnect them, or have the utility cut and
reconnect. The way it is done varies with location.

There are a number of requirements for service panels that you do not
have with subpanels.

--
bud--

On May 9, 10:47*pm, Hat wrote:
I have installed CB sub-panels many a times with no problem because I
can disconnect the live wires at the main panel. *In the old house I
am fixing, I need to replace the all-fuse MAIN panel with a new CB
panel. *Do I need to contact the power company to disconnect the
juice, or is there another way of doing it? *I do not want to mess
with the 240 volt supply because it may hurt a bit (i.e., kill me).
BTW: how do certified electricians go about disconnecting *the live
wires before doing a similar job? *Thanks


Is it your old house ? If yes then if you can safely do the work
(which isn't recommended because you would have to kill the
power by undoing or cutting the feeder cables near the service
entry head to make even the meter socket enclosure totally
safe to work in) go nuts... If you are NOT the homeowner and
you are doing work on this "old house" for its owner, then you
can't do that type of project for them without an electrical
license...

Replacing an electrical panel is not "handyman work"...

Upgrading an old fuse panel to a new circuit breaker panel
is not as easy as it seems and might require replacement
of the main feeder wiring all the way up to the service drop
from the utility pole where you make the connections to
the wires for the meter socket at the service head... This
could include installation of a new metering socket if the
old service was not 200 amps as well as having the power
company having to install larger gauge drop wires to feed
your property...

But if you think its simple, go nuts... Its only someone's
home that will burn down if you don't do every aspect of
the project correctly...

~~ Evan

On Tue, 11 May 2010 09:16:22 -0700 (PDT), Evan
wrote:

On May 9, 10:47Â*pm, Hat wrote:
I have installed CB sub-panels many a times with no problem because I
can disconnect the live wires at the main panel. Â*In the old house I
am fixing, I need to replace the all-fuse MAIN panel with a new CB
panel. Â*Do I need to contact the power company to disconnect the
juice, or is there another way of doing it? Â*I do not want to mess
with the 240 volt supply because it may hurt a bit (i.e., kill me).
BTW: how do certified electricians go about disconnecting Â*the live
wires before doing a similar job? Â*Thanks


Is it your old house ? If yes then if you can safely do the work
(which isn't recommended because you would have to kill the
power by undoing or cutting the feeder cables near the service
entry head to make even the meter socket enclosure totally
safe to work in) go nuts... If you are NOT the homeowner and
you are doing work on this "old house" for its owner, then you
can't do that type of project for them without an electrical
license...

Replacing an electrical panel is not "handyman work"...

Upgrading an old fuse panel to a new circuit breaker panel
is not as easy as it seems and might require replacement
of the main feeder wiring all the way up to the service drop
from the utility pole where you make the connections to
the wires for the meter socket at the service head... This
could include installation of a new metering socket if the
old service was not 200 amps as well as having the power
company having to install larger gauge drop wires to feed
your property...

But if you think its simple, go nuts... Its only someone's
home that will burn down if you don't do every aspect of
the project correctly...

~~ Evan
If he is replacing "like with like" there is no issue with the service
drop or any cabling. IF he is capable of removing the main fuse holder
and taping up the ends of the wire, it IS possible to change the panel
with it live.
I've done it severalt times - but you DO need to bw carefull, and you
DO need to know how to work safely with live circuits. You DO need to
have a lot of respect for electrons!.

When the cables are disconnected and taped, remove the old panel -
then feen the taped cables into the new panel and connect to the main
breaker - and securely fasten the panel to the service board. Then
re-enter all the branch circuits.

It IS safer to have the meter pulled and work on it "dead" if at all
possible.
I have seen meter seals popped off and re-installed ( if they are the
plastic type they often break on their own from weathering) and some
utilities use a "generic" seal, while others use "personalized" seals
with their name on them so they can easily identify tampering.

On May 11, 12:27�pm, wrote:
On Tue, 11 May 2010 09:16:22 -0700 (PDT), Evan





wrote:
On May 9, 10:47�pm, Hat wrote:
I have installed CB sub-panels many a times with no problem because I
can disconnect the live wires at the main panel. �In the old house I
am fixing, I need to replace the all-fuse MAIN panel with a new CB
panel. �Do I need to contact the power company to disconnect the
juice, or is there another way of doing it? �I do not want to mess
with the 240 volt supply because it may hurt a bit (i.e., kill me).
BTW: how do certified electricians go about disconnecting �the live
wires before doing a similar job? �Thanks

Is it your old house ? �If yes then if you can safely do the work
(which isn't recommended because you would have to kill the
power by undoing or cutting the feeder cables near the service
entry head to make even the meter socket enclosure totally
safe to work in) go nuts... �If you are NOT the homeowner and
you are doing work on this "old house" for its owner, then you
can't do that type of project for them without an electrical
license...

Replacing an electrical panel is not "handyman work"...

Upgrading an old fuse panel to a new circuit breaker panel
is not as easy as it seems and might require replacement
of the main feeder wiring all the way up to the service drop
from the utility pole where you make the connections to
the wires for the meter socket at the service head... �This
could include installation of a new metering socket if the
old service was not 200 amps as well as having the power
company having to install larger gauge drop wires to feed
your property...

But if you think its simple, go nuts... �Its only someone's
home that will burn down if you don't do every aspect of
the project correctly...

~~ Evan

If he is replacing "like with like" there is no issue with the service
drop or any cabling. IF he is capable of removing the main fuse holder
and taping up the ends of the wire, it IS possible to change the panel
with it live.
I've done it severalt times - but you DO need to bw carefull, and you
DO need to know how to work safely with live circuits. You DO need to
have a lot of respect for electrons!.

When the cables are disconnected and taped, remove the old panel -
then feen the taped cables into the new panel and connect to the main
breaker - and securely fasten the panel to the service board. Then
re-enter all the branch circuits.

It IS safer to have the meter pulled and work on it "dead" if at all
possible.
I have seen meter seals popped off and re-installed ( if they are the
plastic type they often break on their own from weathering) �and some
utilities use a "generic" seal, while others use "personalized" seals
with their name on them so they can easily identify tampering.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I have pulled meters its no biggie and far safer than working live!!!

Duquesne light didnt care as long as I informed them the next day.

A fuse broke off in its holder the glass seperated from the base.

around here they no longer look at meters to read them just drive up
the street

"jamesgangnc" wrote in message
...

You clearly don't know what you are talking about. Home service
meters do not have a disconnect.

Really? Mine does. It is called a "Meter Main", moron.

Here is a two for one picture, you completely ignorant ****:

http://www.cdc.gov/NCEH/publications...igure11.15.jpg

Notice the breaker on the right. There are many different types of "Meter
Mains", and this
is an example of only one style.

Notice the blue "seal" on the meter. Yes, that flat piece of plastic with a
hard, wire loop
going through the meter socket retainer ring? Gee, there is absolutely zero
chance of
figuring out how to clip that bugger so that it may be taken off and put back
on, is there?
Hell, some are even clear and are much easier to figure out.


Seals are not "reusable".

I never stated that they were. I only stated that some may be clipped in a
certain
fashion to give the obvious appearance of not being tampered with.

You are
presumptuous to advice the OP he's not capable of handling this task
and then go one to give misinformed information.

You are a retard that doesn't know squat about electrical systems, residential,
or not. Furthermore, your reading and comprehension skills are even worse.
How is that for presumptuousness? I clarified my remarks to him. Is there a
specific need that caused you to add your useless two cents, or are you truly a
useless twit?

wrote in message
...

I have seen a guy slip a crochet hook in there, depress the spring end
of the wire and pull them right out.
It did mar the inside of the seal a little but if you were not sure
what you were looking at it would be very easy to overlook. The seal
could be snapped back together and be very secure.

I've done something similar, myself. Though, for repeated meter removal
such an approach makes obvious damage to the seal housing. Clipping
one leg of the seal and gently sliding it off(on) of the meter ring will allow
you to pull the meter multiple times if the situation calls for it. If someone
inspected the seal they would know it had been clipped, but most meter
readers only look for the obvious, if at all.

I yanked the seal off of my meter, once, and chucked it. I did not see
another seal on that meter for a couple of years and did not hear one word
of grief from PG&E. Hell, I disconnected my service at the weather head
and put a new roof over the top of it and never told PG&E about it until a
snow storm added enough weight to the drop to snap the messenger
(pinhole current leak through one hot leg melted the messenger part way
through at some point in time). The Lineman that came out for the repair
liked my "temporary connection".

MIB wrote:
"jamesgangnc" wrote in message
...

You clearly don't know what you are talking about. Home service
meters do not have a disconnect.

Really? Mine does. It is called a "Meter Main", moron.

Here is a two for one picture, you completely ignorant ****:

http://www.cdc.gov/NCEH/publications...igure11.15.jpg

Notice the breaker on the right. There are many different types of
"Meter Mains", and this
is an example of only one style.

I think the thing you're calling a "Meter Main" is actually an on-off switch
for the winch used to deploy and retrieve shrimp nets on medium sized shrimp
boats.

On May 10, 9:24*pm, "MIB" wrote:
If you are asking this question, then I can only presume that you should not be
doing
the work. *Hire a qualified electrician to "side job" it for you.

Some utility companies will do one free dis/reconnect without questions, or a
permit.

If you must do the work yourself there are insulated, mechanical terminals that
may
be used to facilitate the easy dis/reconnection of the pre-meter conductors.
They
are manufactured by Polaris. *If you have not done a live splice before, forget
about
it. *Is your life worth a shortcut?

They make a cheaper product than this one, but this gives the general idea:

http://www.polarisconnectors.com/pdf...ghting_Connect...

Again, if you don't know what you are doing and need someone to hold your hand,
don't
do this. *After the work is complete you may leave them on or have the utility
company
come out and "properly" connect the service. *That's your call.

As for removing the meter and working on the post meter wiring, some of the
seals may be
cut in a fashion that will allow repeated removal and installation of the seal,
thus providing
the same ability for the meter itself. *Do the work and play dumb if questioned.
Though,
as someone else suggested, it would be a good idea to upgrade your meter main to
a
larger service, but this makes me ask, "does the meter not have a disconnect?"

I have not been doing a thorough read of this topic and might have missed some
information
that you have presented. *So, forgive me if I am a bit presumptuous or seem to
be speaking
without all of the facts.

Number One: *Be safe and do it right. *It would suck to survive the install only
to die in a fire.

=====================
I get the idea now. This is not for the faint of heart. I'll hire a
professional to do the job. Thanks very much.

Hat wrote:

-snip-
I get the idea now. This is not for the faint of heart. I'll hire a
professional to do the job. Thanks very much.

This might be the most intelligent post in this thread.g Chances
are you can find something else to do while a pro pops this out.

You can also sleep better nights knowing your insurance company isn't
going to give you a hard time if the worst case happens.

Jim

On May 11, 7:18*pm, "MIB" wrote:
"jamesgangnc" wrote in message

...

You clearly don't know what you are talking about. *Home service
meters do not have a disconnect.

Really? *Mine does. *It is called a "Meter Main", moron.

Here is a two for one picture, you completely ignorant ****:

http://www.cdc.gov/NCEH/publications...hics/chapter_1...

Notice the breaker on the right. *There are many different types of "Meter
Mains", and this
is an example of only one style.

Notice the blue "seal" on the meter. *Yes, that flat piece of plastic with a
hard, wire loop
going through the meter socket retainer ring? *Gee, there is absolutely zero
chance of
figuring out how to clip that bugger so that it may be taken off and put back
on, is there?
Hell, some are even clear and are much easier to figure out.

*Seals are not "reusable".

I never stated that they were. *I only stated that some may be clipped in a
certain
fashion to give the obvious appearance of not being tampered with.

You are
presumptuous to advice the OP he's not capable of handling this task
and then go one to give misinformed information.

You are a retard that doesn't know squat about electrical systems, residential,
*or not. *Furthermore, your reading and comprehension skills are even worse.
*How is that for presumptuousness? *I clarified my remarks to him. *Is there a
specific need that caused you to add your useless two cents, or are you truly a
useless twit?

Line from the poco is wired to the meter. Line from the meter goes
into the main service panel. That's the set up on 99% of residential
installs. If you have to replace the whole panel you need to kill
power to it. The way you do is pull the meter. Obviously the guy
didn't have a second panel between meter and the panel he was
replacing or he wouldn't have been here asking advice, would he? And
the poco won't have an issue with him calling for a replacement seal.
Happens all the time because it's the only way to cut power to the
main panel.

Hat wrote:

=====================
I get the idea now. This is not for the faint of heart. I'll hire a
professional to do the job. Thanks very much.

Your choice, but the job's really not that hard.

It's like changing a ti
1. Jack up the car (remove power)
2. Remove old tire (scrap existing distribution facility)
3. Install new tire (apply new distribution panel)
4. Lower jack (reapply power)

If you do things in the common sense order, the result will be as expected.
If you scramble the sequence, such as removing the tire before you jack up
the car, you can expect damage, death, and no free flashlight.

"HeyBub" wrote:

Hat wrote:

=====================
I get the idea now. This is not for the faint of heart. I'll hire a
professional to do the job. Thanks very much.

Your choice, but the job's really not that hard.

It's like changing a ti

Except a little different. With a minimum of common sense caution, a
tire change in unlikely to cause you any damage. A slip of a
screwdriver, or a sharp piece of metal could fry you in place, flash
and blind you, or start your house on fire. And it could do it 3
years from now while you're sleeping.

1. Jack up the car (remove power)

Being careful not to cause a short in the process-- and by bypassing a
seal that the power company put there to keep you from touching
things. By breaking the seal you likely lose your fire insurance
coverage if your bean-counting insurance company can blame the
electric lines for the fire.

2. Remove old tire (scrap existing distribution facility)

That part is similar-- but be sure to inspect, with your
non-professional eye, every wire that you remove.-- and don't pull any
insulation off under a staple or though a cable connector with your
clumsy, inexperienced fingers.

3. Install new tire (apply new distribution panel)

Here's where it gets fun-- rerouting all those wires so they fit
isn't likely. You will probably have to make some junction boxes. In
the time you spend scratching your head and trying to decide how best
to do this-- the pro who has been here 100 times before has the job
done and is picking up his tools. [and if he screwed something up-- he
gets a call and comes back to fix it]

4. Lower jack (reapply power)

If you do things in the common sense order, the result will be as expected.
If you scramble the sequence, such as removing the tire before you jack up
the car, you can expect damage, death, and no free flashlight.

I'm all for DIY- and have done stuff that everyone said to leave to
the pros. But the risk/reward on replacing an entrance panel doesn't
make it sound like a good idea to me.

Jim

On May 12, 9:05*am, Jim Elbrecht wrote:
"HeyBub" wrote:
Hat wrote:

=====================
I get the idea now. *This is not for the faint of heart. *I'll hire a
professional to do the job. *Thanks very much.

Your choice, but the job's really not that hard.

It's like changing a ti

Except a little different. *With a minimum of common sense caution, a
tire change in unlikely to cause you any damage. * A slip of a
screwdriver, or a sharp piece of metal could fry you in place, flash
and blind you, or start your house on fire. * And it could do it 3
years from now while you're sleeping.

1. Jack up the car (remove power)

Being careful not to cause a short in the process-- and by bypassing a
seal that the power company put there to keep you from touching
things. * By breaking the seal you likely lose your fire insurance
coverage if your bean-counting insurance company can blame the
electric lines for the fire.

2. Remove old tire (scrap existing distribution facility)

That part is similar-- but be sure to inspect, with your
non-professional eye, every wire that you remove.-- and don't pull any
insulation off under a staple or though a cable connector with your
clumsy, inexperienced fingers.

3. Install new tire (apply new distribution panel)

Here's where it gets fun-- * rerouting all those wires so they fit
isn't likely. *You will probably have to make some junction boxes. In
the time you spend scratching your head and trying to decide how best
to do this-- the pro who has been here 100 times before has the job
done and is picking up his tools. [and if he screwed something up-- he
gets a call and comes back to fix it]

4. Lower jack (reapply power)

If you do things in the common sense order, the result will be as expected.
If you scramble the sequence, such as removing the tire before you jack up
the car, you can expect damage, death, and no free flashlight.

I'm all for DIY- and have done stuff that everyone said to leave to
the pros. *But the risk/reward on replacing an entrance panel doesn't
make it sound like a good idea to me.

Jim

Say that after you get an $800 quote to for it. The general sense I
get is that most people asking questions on this group have already
considered calling "the guy". We don't know their capabilities. Once
they get answers that explain the task then it's up to them to decide
if it's within their abilities. Isn't that sort of a given?
Everyone, even "the guy" has to do something the first time. Which
brings up the other advantage of doing it yourself, you'll learn
something. So even if it takes you all day to do it the first time,
next time you have to do it you'll have a lot better ideas of what to
watch for. As another poster put it, if you haven't ****ed up some
stuff occasionally then you haven't done much.

On May 12, 7:44*am, jamesgangnc wrote:
On May 11, 7:18*pm, "MIB" wrote:



"jamesgangnc" wrote in message

....

You clearly don't know what you are talking about. *Home service
meters do not have a disconnect.

Really? *Mine does. *It is called a "Meter Main", moron.

Here is a two for one picture, you completely ignorant ****:

http://www.cdc.gov/NCEH/publications...hics/chapter_1...

Notice the breaker on the right. *There are many different types of "Meter
Mains", and this
is an example of only one style.

Notice the blue "seal" on the meter. *Yes, that flat piece of plastic with a
hard, wire loop
going through the meter socket retainer ring? *Gee, there is absolutely zero
chance of
figuring out how to clip that bugger so that it may be taken off and put back
on, is there?
Hell, some are even clear and are much easier to figure out.

*Seals are not "reusable".

I never stated that they were. *I only stated that some may be clipped in a
certain
fashion to give the obvious appearance of not being tampered with.

You are
presumptuous to advice the OP he's not capable of handling this task
and then go one to give misinformed information.

You are a retard that doesn't know squat about electrical systems, residential,
*or not. *Furthermore, your reading and comprehension skills are even worse.
*How is that for presumptuousness? *I clarified my remarks to him. *Is there a
specific need that caused you to add your useless two cents, or are you truly a
useless twit?

Line from the poco is wired to the meter. *Line from the meter goes
into the main service panel. *That's the set up on 99% of residential
installs. *If you have to replace the *whole panel you need to kill
power to it. *The way you do is pull the meter. *Obviously the guy
didn't have a second panel between meter and the panel he was
replacing or he wouldn't have been here asking advice, would he? *And
the poco won't have an issue with him calling for a replacement seal.
Happens all the time because it's the only way to cut power to the
main panel.


UMM... No, removing the meter from the socket is NOT the only
way to kill the power... Doing it that way requires doing your
project
according to when the power company is willing to have technicians
come out to pull it and what time period that same day they would
have people available during business hours to restore your service
by putting the meter back in...

Licensed electricians will kill power to replace a power panel by
undoing the connections from the service drop wire coming from the
utility pole to the wires going into the service weather head...

If there is no connection there the electrician can cut the wires
at that point and reconnect when the work is done using metal
butt splice connectors with set screws to remake the circuit...
The connectors are then wrapped with many layers of electrical
tape (the good expensive stuff with a high dielectric rating like
Scotch brand) and your power is restored...

~~ Evan

On May 12, 2:02*pm, Evan wrote:
On May 12, 7:44*am, jamesgangnc wrote:





On May 11, 7:18*pm, "MIB" wrote:

"jamesgangnc" wrote in message

....

You clearly don't know what you are talking about. *Home service
meters do not have a disconnect.

Really? *Mine does. *It is called a "Meter Main", moron.

Here is a two for one picture, you completely ignorant ****:

http://www.cdc.gov/NCEH/publications...hics/chapter_1....

Notice the breaker on the right. *There are many different types of "Meter
Mains", and this
is an example of only one style.

Notice the blue "seal" on the meter. *Yes, that flat piece of plastic with a
hard, wire loop
going through the meter socket retainer ring? *Gee, there is absolutely zero
chance of
figuring out how to clip that bugger so that it may be taken off and put back
on, is there?
Hell, some are even clear and are much easier to figure out.

*Seals are not "reusable".

I never stated that they were. *I only stated that some may be clipped in a
certain
fashion to give the obvious appearance of not being tampered with.

You are
presumptuous to advice the OP he's not capable of handling this task
and then go one to give misinformed information.

You are a retard that doesn't know squat about electrical systems, residential,
*or not. *Furthermore, your reading and comprehension skills are even worse.
*How is that for presumptuousness? *I clarified my remarks to him.. *Is there a
specific need that caused you to add your useless two cents, or are you truly a
useless twit?

Line from the poco is wired to the meter. *Line from the meter goes
into the main service panel. *That's the set up on 99% of residential
installs. *If you have to replace the *whole panel you need to kill
power to it. *The way you do is pull the meter. *Obviously the guy
didn't have a second panel between meter and the panel he was
replacing or he wouldn't have been here asking advice, would he? *And
the poco won't have an issue with him calling for a replacement seal.
Happens all the time because it's the only way to cut power to the
main panel.

UMM... *No, removing the meter from the socket is NOT the only
way to kill the power... *Doing it that way requires doing your
project
according to when the power company is willing to have technicians
come out to pull it and what time period that same day they would
have people available during business hours to restore your service
by putting the meter back in...

Licensed electricians will kill power to replace a power panel by
undoing the connections from the service drop wire coming from the
utility pole to the wires going into the service weather head...

If there is no connection there the electrician can cut the wires
at that point and reconnect when the work is done using metal
butt splice connectors with set screws to remake the circuit...
The connectors are then wrapped with many layers of electrical
tape (the good expensive stuff with a high dielectric rating like
Scotch brand) and your power is restored...

~~ Evan- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Why the hell would you do any of that when you can just pull the
meter? You have a licensed contractor do this and he's gonna pull
the meter. Who the heck would mess around up on the service head or
the pole when you can just pull the meter? The op could have fricking
underground service for all we know. What you gonna do then, dig it
up?

Jim Elbrecht wrote:

If you do things in the common sense order, the result will be as
expected. If you scramble the sequence, such as removing the tire
before you jack up the car, you can expect damage, death, and no
free flashlight.

I'm all for DIY- and have done stuff that everyone said to leave to
the pros. But the risk/reward on replacing an entrance panel doesn't
make it sound like a good idea to me.


Yeah, but things can go terribly, terribly wrong in replacing a tire, too
(like not tightening the lug nuts).

Two years ago we got a bid to replace a 200-Amp distribution panel.
$1250.00!

After buying all the parts (retail, at Home Depot), my son and I spent a
leisurely Saturday afternoon on the case. Admittedly, we had to make two
additional trips to HD for overlooked gizmos to finish the task, but the
out-of-pocket expense came to $320.

We saved $900 (not counting the beer).

Aside from the smoke, the thing's been working swell ever since.

Once, when I didn't get around to paying my bill, my power was
disconnected. I rushed out and paid the bill, but then I wondered
when they would actually reconnect me. So there must have been a seal
that I cut; and I pulled out the meter, removed the plastic prong
covers, and put back the meter. And then made dinner. The guy came
an hour later and I told him someone else had come already. Later I
realized -- at least I think so -- that he was the only one doing my
area, and he knew no one else had come. But he hadn't said anything.
I suppose to himself he just smiled, or cursed me for being a liar.

I am a friend who is "in the business" (electrician.)

He told me he NEVER coordinates with the power company ahead of time.

When he needs to, he pulls the meter and does the job. When it's safe to
put the meter back he calls the power company with a song and dance about it
being an "emergency." They put the meter back with the seal, etc.

On "This Old House" an electrician taped the power line BEFORE the meter
box and used it to power up a outlet box to supply essential loads. The
guy actually does the hot wiring while standing on a fiberglass ladder. He
touched only one wire at a time but his body was 120 volts! (I guess it's
a local thing.)

My friend often replaces panels with CB boxes without pulling the meter.
He NEVER (at least deliberately) touches a hot wire. If he needs, say, an
insulated allen wrench, he will wrap the part he will hold with LOTS of
electrical tape. Once he has disconnected a service wire he wraps the
exposed end with lots and lots of tape.

When it's time to reconnect he cuts off the tape with an knive which which
has been "helped" with more tape.

Of course he probably knew I'd been disconnected for failure to pay,
and he had no reason to think I'd been messing with the breaker box,
but would he have cared if he'd thought that?

Beyond a point, they have nothing to gain by making a fuss. They can't
claim "theft of services" because you are paying. It's at most a technical
violation of their service teriffs. Since they are in the business of
selling electricity, it's silly to disconnect a paying customer just for
spite.

On Wed, 12 May 2010 11:02:44 -0700 (PDT), Evan
wrote:


UMM... No, removing the meter from the socket is NOT the only
way to kill the power... Doing it that way requires doing your
project
according to when the power company is willing to have technicians
come out to pull it and what time period that same day they would
have people available during business hours to restore your service
by putting the meter back in...

Licensed electricians will kill power to replace a power panel by
undoing the connections from the service drop wire coming from the
utility pole to the wires going into the service weather head...

No L.icenced electricians will NOT generally disconnect the LIVE power
drop from the post to the meter. That makes less sense than replacing
the panel live. They WILL pull the meter. And usually they WILL also
put the meter back on and call the power utility to replace the seal -
quite often done at the same time as the "inspection" which is
required - often along with a "permit"

If there is no connection there the electrician can cut the wires
at that point and reconnect when the work is done using metal
butt splice connectors with set screws to remake the circuit...
The connectors are then wrapped with many layers of electrical
tape (the good expensive stuff with a high dielectric rating like
Scotch brand) and your power is restored...


Except all that has to be done LIVE.

You are not an electricaian, obviously.
I'm not a LICENCED electrician either, but my dad was, and I worked
for him a lot as a kid.
~~ Evan

On May 12, 8:01*pm, "John Gilmer" wrote:


Beyond a point, they have nothing to gain by making a fuss. * They can't
claim "theft of services" because you are paying. * It's at most a technical
violation of their service teriffs. *Since they are in the business of
selling electricity, it's silly to disconnect a paying customer just for
spite.


They won't make a fuss with the customer, other than assessing
any fees authorized by the public utility overseers in your state...

However, they can and will go after the professional with the
electrical license with the public utility people or the state
electrical board and have his "ticket" punched... That is not
out of spite... It is out of a desire to protect the integrity of
their metering equipment and distribution of services...

Not "wanting" to call ahead to have power company employees
come out and pull the meter and making a bogus claim of
"it was an emergency" won't fly after the second time...

~~ Evan

On May 13, 9:40�am, Evan wrote:
On May 12, 8:01�pm, "John Gilmer" wrote:



Beyond a point, they have nothing to gain by making a fuss. � They can't
claim "theft of services" because you are paying. � It's at most a technical
violation of their service teriffs. �Since they are in the business of
selling electricity, it's silly to disconnect a paying customer just for
spite.

They won't make a fuss with the customer, other than assessing
any fees authorized by the public utility overseers in your state...

However, they can and will go after the professional with the
electrical license with the public utility people or the state
electrical board and have his "ticket" punched... �That is not
out of spite... �It is out of a desire to protect the integrity of
their metering equipment and distribution of services...

Not "wanting" to call ahead to have power company employees
come out and pull the meter and making a bogus claim of
"it was an emergency" won't fly after the second time...

~~ Evan

Most often replacing the main panel REQUIRES replacing the service
drop, cables age, conductors too short, espically since new main
panels MUST be mouted to a wood panel, to minimize rusting, and its
generally best to go to 200 amps, and a new meter can, costs little
more and future proofs the install.


ALL this REQUIRES disconnecting the main before the meter, which can
be safely done by a electrician.

Or have the power company do it.

Evan wrote:
On May 12, 8:01 pm, "John Gilmer" wrote:

Beyond a point, they have nothing to gain by making a fuss. They can't
claim "theft of services" because you are paying. It's at most a technical
violation of their service teriffs. Since they are in the business of
selling electricity, it's silly to disconnect a paying customer just for
spite.


They won't make a fuss with the customer, other than assessing
any fees authorized by the public utility overseers in your state...

However, they can and will go after the professional with the
electrical license with the public utility people or the state
electrical board and have his "ticket" punched... That is not
out of spite... It is out of a desire to protect the integrity of
their metering equipment and distribution of services...

Not "wanting" to call ahead to have power company employees
come out and pull the meter and making a bogus claim of
"it was an emergency" won't fly after the second time...

~~ Evan

You are generalizing from what may (or may not) be the practice where
you are.

I cut seals when needed and called the utility metering department
within a day or two. The utility had no problem with that.

I doubt utilities would have problems with licensed electricians cutting
seals and then telling them. A licensed electrician is going to be
involved in a fraud?

--
bud--

Jim Elbrecht wrote:

Being careful not to cause a short in the process-- and by bypassing a
seal that the power company put there to keep you from touching
things. By breaking the seal you likely lose your fire insurance
coverage if your bean-counting insurance company can blame the
electric lines for the fire.

Exactly what clause in your fire insurance policy permits them to do that? I
can't find any such in mine and I've looked very carefully (Texas HO-1B). The
only thing that is close would be if they decided I did it deliberately with the
intent to burn the building down. Stupidity doesn't count. -- Doug

"Evan" wrote in message
...
On May 12, 8:01 pm, "John Gilmer" wrote:


Beyond a point, they have nothing to gain by making a fuss. They can't
claim "theft of services" because you are paying. It's at most a technical
violation of their service teriffs. Since they are in the business of
selling electricity, it's silly to disconnect a paying customer just for
spite.


They won't make a fuss with the customer, other than assessing
any fees authorized by the public utility overseers in your state...

However, they can and will go after the professional with the
electrical license with the public utility people or the state
electrical board and have his "ticket" punched... That is not
out of spite... It is out of a desire to protect the integrity of
their metering equipment and distribution of services...

Not "wanting" to call ahead to have power company employees
come out and pull the meter and making a bogus claim of
"it was an emergency" won't fly after the second time...

~~ Evan

I agree with Bud, you can't generalize these things. Where I work, there are
three electric utility companies within 20 miles of me. Each has specific
requirements for disconnecting and reconnecting service equipment. The most
lax of the three, similar to Bud, only requires me to notify them after I've
cut a meter seal, the most stringent utility company, requires verbal and
written notification, using specific forms before they send someone to the
job and remove their case hardened hydraulic lock from their customer's
meter box.

On May 12, 1:02*pm, Evan wrote:
On May 12, 7:44*am, jamesgangnc wrote:





On May 11, 7:18*pm, "MIB" wrote:

"jamesgangnc" wrote in message

....

You clearly don't know what you are talking about. *Home service
meters do not have a disconnect.

Really? *Mine does. *It is called a "Meter Main", moron.

Here is a two for one picture, you completely ignorant ****:

http://www.cdc.gov/NCEH/publications...hics/chapter_1....

Notice the breaker on the right. *There are many different types of "Meter
Mains", and this
is an example of only one style.

Notice the blue "seal" on the meter. *Yes, that flat piece of plastic with a
hard, wire loop
going through the meter socket retainer ring? *Gee, there is absolutely zero
chance of
figuring out how to clip that bugger so that it may be taken off and put back
on, is there?
Hell, some are even clear and are much easier to figure out.

*Seals are not "reusable".

I never stated that they were. *I only stated that some may be clipped in a
certain
fashion to give the obvious appearance of not being tampered with.

You are
presumptuous to advice the OP he's not capable of handling this task
and then go one to give misinformed information.

You are a retard that doesn't know squat about electrical systems, residential,
*or not. *Furthermore, your reading and comprehension skills are even worse.
*How is that for presumptuousness? *I clarified my remarks to him.. *Is there a
specific need that caused you to add your useless two cents, or are you truly a
useless twit?

Line from the poco is wired to the meter. *Line from the meter goes
into the main service panel. *That's the set up on 99% of residential
installs. *If you have to replace the *whole panel you need to kill
power to it. *The way you do is pull the meter. *Obviously the guy
didn't have a second panel between meter and the panel he was
replacing or he wouldn't have been here asking advice, would he? *And
the poco won't have an issue with him calling for a replacement seal.
Happens all the time because it's the only way to cut power to the
main panel.

UMM... *No, removing the meter from the socket is NOT the only
way to kill the power... *Doing it that way requires doing your
project
according to when the power company is willing to have technicians
come out to pull it and what time period that same day they would
have people available during business hours to restore your service
by putting the meter back in...

Licensed electricians will kill power to replace a power panel by
undoing the connections from the service drop wire coming from the
utility pole to the wires going into the service weather head...

If there is no connection there the electrician can cut the wires
at that point and reconnect when the work is done using metal
butt splice connectors with set screws to remake the circuit...
The connectors are then wrapped with many layers of electrical
tape (the good expensive stuff with a high dielectric rating like
Scotch brand) and your power is restored...

~~ Evan- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

BS - Everyone including electricians cut the seal, remove the band
holding the meter into the meter housing, and then pull the meter.
Call the power cimpany when job completed to tell them they need to
put a new seal on the holding band.

hr(bob) wrote:
On May 12, 1:02 pm, Evan wrote:
On May 12, 7:44 am, jamesgangnc wrote:





On May 11, 7:18 pm, "MIB" wrote:
"jamesgangnc" wrote in message
...
You clearly don't know what you are talking about. Home service
meters do not have a disconnect.
Really? Mine does. It is called a "Meter Main", moron.
Here is a two for one picture, you completely ignorant ****:
http://www.cdc.gov/NCEH/publications...hics/chapter_1...
Notice the breaker on the right. There are many different types of "Meter
Mains", and this
is an example of only one style.
Notice the blue "seal" on the meter. Yes, that flat piece of plastic with a
hard, wire loop
going through the meter socket retainer ring? Gee, there is absolutely zero
chance of
figuring out how to clip that bugger so that it may be taken off and put back
on, is there?
Hell, some are even clear and are much easier to figure out.
Seals are not "reusable".
I never stated that they were. I only stated that some may be clipped in a
certain
fashion to give the obvious appearance of not being tampered with.
You are
presumptuous to advice the OP he's not capable of handling this task
and then go one to give misinformed information.
You are a retard that doesn't know squat about electrical systems, residential,
or not. Furthermore, your reading and comprehension skills are even worse.
How is that for presumptuousness? I clarified my remarks to him. Is there a
specific need that caused you to add your useless two cents, or are you truly a
useless twit?
Line from the poco is wired to the meter. Line from the meter goes
into the main service panel. That's the set up on 99% of residential
installs. If you have to replace the whole panel you need to kill
power to it. The way you do is pull the meter. Obviously the guy
didn't have a second panel between meter and the panel he was
replacing or he wouldn't have been here asking advice, would he? And
the poco won't have an issue with him calling for a replacement seal.
Happens all the time because it's the only way to cut power to the
main panel.
UMM... No, removing the meter from the socket is NOT the only
way to kill the power... Doing it that way requires doing your
project
according to when the power company is willing to have technicians
come out to pull it and what time period that same day they would
have people available during business hours to restore your service
by putting the meter back in...

Licensed electricians will kill power to replace a power panel by
undoing the connections from the service drop wire coming from the
utility pole to the wires going into the service weather head...

If there is no connection there the electrician can cut the wires
at that point and reconnect when the work is done using metal
butt splice connectors with set screws to remake the circuit...
The connectors are then wrapped with many layers of electrical
tape (the good expensive stuff with a high dielectric rating like
Scotch brand) and your power is restored...

~~ Evan- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

BS - Everyone including electricians cut the seal, remove the band
holding the meter into the meter housing, and then pull the meter.
Call the power cimpany when job completed to tell them they need to
put a new seal on the holding band.

Around here, we call the power company and say something like,
"This is Joe The Plumber with XXX construction, we had to cut
into the wall at Mr. Jones house and we pulled the meter for
safety reasons, we reinstalled the meter and there is no damage
to the wiring, could you send someone out to replace the seal."
We never have any problems and the customer stays out of trouble
with the power company.

TDD

On May 13, 10:58*am, bud-- wrote:
Evan wrote:
On May 12, 8:01 pm, "John Gilmer" wrote:

Beyond a point, they have nothing to gain by making a fuss. * They can't
claim "theft of services" because you are paying. * It's at most a technical
violation of their service teriffs. *Since they are in the business of
selling electricity, it's silly to disconnect a paying customer just for
spite.

They won't make a fuss with the customer, other than assessing
any fees authorized by the public utility overseers in your state...

However, they can and will go after the professional with the
electrical license with the public utility people or the state
electrical board and have his "ticket" punched... *That is not
out of spite... *It is out of a desire to protect the integrity of
their metering equipment and distribution of services...

Not "wanting" to call ahead to have power company employees
come out and pull the meter and making a bogus claim of
"it was an emergency" won't fly after the second time...

~~ Evan

You are generalizing from what may (or may not) be the practice where
you are.

I cut seals when needed and called the utility metering department
within a day or two. The utility had no problem with that.

I doubt utilities would have problems with licensed electricians cutting
seals and then telling them. A licensed electrician is going to be
involved in a fraud?

--
bud--


It is trespassing, not fraud, the customer whose house the electric
meter is installed in does not own or control the meter cabinet once
the meter is installed... It is sealed with a tamper evident seal and
once closed you need to call and obtain permission from the power
company to access what is inside of the meter cabinet...

Just because your local utility company has made a practice of
not making a major case out of it in the past has no bearing on
whether they can if they wanted to...

Why do you think some of the utility companies out there use
those high security metal bands and medeco locks on their
meter enclosures ? It is to keep everybody but the power
company out... Electricians have the ability to cut into the
service drop lines if they need to kill the power where they
can reconnect them without trespassing in power company
enclosures...

Just because the power company has not resorted to using
the metal bands around the meter and the medeco high security
pin locks on the cabinet box doesn't mean you should cut the
meter seal off and do whatever you want -- your customer does
not have the right to give you permission to open that locked
enclosure while the power company seal is in place and intact...

~~ Evan

Evan wrote:
On May 13, 10:58 am, bud-- wrote:
Evan wrote:
On May 12, 8:01 pm, "John Gilmer" wrote:
Beyond a point, they have nothing to gain by making a fuss. They can't
claim "theft of services" because you are paying. It's at most a technical
violation of their service teriffs. Since they are in the business of
selling electricity, it's silly to disconnect a paying customer just for
spite.
They won't make a fuss with the customer, other than assessing
any fees authorized by the public utility overseers in your state...
However, they can and will go after the professional with the
electrical license with the public utility people or the state
electrical board and have his "ticket" punched... That is not
out of spite... It is out of a desire to protect the integrity of
their metering equipment and distribution of services...
Not "wanting" to call ahead to have power company employees
come out and pull the meter and making a bogus claim of
"it was an emergency" won't fly after the second time...
~~ Evan
You are generalizing from what may (or may not) be the practice where
you are.

I cut seals when needed and called the utility metering department
within a day or two. The utility had no problem with that.

I doubt utilities would have problems with licensed electricians cutting
seals and then telling them. A licensed electrician is going to be
involved in a fraud?

--
bud--


It is trespassing, not fraud, the customer whose house the electric
meter is installed in does not own or control the meter cabinet once
the meter is installed... It is sealed with a tamper evident seal and
once closed you need to call and obtain permission from the power
company to access what is inside of the meter cabinet...

Just because your local utility company has made a practice of
not making a major case out of it in the past has no bearing on
whether they can if they wanted to...

Why do you think some of the utility companies out there use
those high security metal bands and medeco locks on their
meter enclosures ? It is to keep everybody but the power
company out... Electricians have the ability to cut into the
service drop lines if they need to kill the power where they
can reconnect them without trespassing in power company
enclosures...

Just because the power company has not resorted to using
the metal bands around the meter and the medeco high security
pin locks on the cabinet box doesn't mean you should cut the
meter seal off and do whatever you want -- your customer does
not have the right to give you permission to open that locked
enclosure while the power company seal is in place and intact...

~~ Evan

This 'does too- does not' argument is pointless. It obviously varies by
area. IANAL, but I do not think the term 'trespass' applies- more like
'violating terms of service'. My recommendation to anyone, home owner or
licensed electrician, would be to pick up the phone and CALL the power
company. A local tradesman is likely known to them from previous jobs,
so they will say 'okay, got it', and move on. A homeowner, on the other
hand, they may want to send a truck out to pull the meter, since they
have no way of knowing if the homeowner knows what he is doing, even if
he uses all the right words on the phone. And in my limited experience,
some of those meters are surprisingly heavy, and the prongs can grab
awful hard sometimes. If you don't pull it out or put it back squarely
and firmly, some scary noises are possible. (I used to set up and take
down temporary poles on the job sites as a kid. They didn't always have
a working or unlocked kill switch on the pole. Somebody breaks the feed
from temporary pole to house, sometimes pulling the meter was the only
way to kill power before stepping into the mud puddle to recover the
loose wire.)

--
aem sends...

On May 15, 9:42�pm, aemeijers wrote:
Evan wrote:
On May 13, 10:58 am, bud-- wrote:
Evan wrote:
On May 12, 8:01 pm, "John Gilmer" wrote:
Beyond a point, they have nothing to gain by making a fuss. � They can't
claim "theft of services" because you are paying. � It's at most a technical
violation of their service teriffs. �Since they are in the business of
selling electricity, it's silly to disconnect a paying customer just for
spite.
They won't make a fuss with the customer, other than assessing
any fees authorized by the public utility overseers in your state...
However, they can and will go after the professional with the
electrical license with the public utility people or the state
electrical board and have his "ticket" punched... �That is not
out of spite... �It is out of a desire to protect the integrity of
their metering equipment and distribution of services...
Not "wanting" to call ahead to have power company employees
come out and pull the meter and making a bogus claim of
"it was an emergency" won't fly after the second time...
~~ Evan
You are generalizing from what may (or may not) be the practice where
you are.

I cut seals when needed and called the utility metering department
within a day or two. The utility had no problem with that.

I doubt utilities would have problems with licensed electricians cutting
seals and then telling them. A licensed electrician is going to be
involved in a fraud?

--
bud--

It is trespassing, not fraud, the customer whose house the electric
meter is installed in does not own or control the meter cabinet once
the meter is installed... �It is sealed with a tamper evident seal and
once closed you need to call and obtain permission from the power
company to access what is inside of the meter cabinet...

Just because your local utility company has made a practice of
not making a major case out of it in the past has no bearing on
whether they can if they wanted to...

Why do you think some of the utility companies out there use
those high security metal bands and medeco locks on their
meter enclosures ? �It is to keep everybody but the power
company out... �Electricians have the ability to cut into the
service drop lines if they need to kill the power where they
can reconnect them without trespassing in power company
enclosures...

Just because the power company has not resorted to using
the metal bands around the meter and the medeco high security
pin locks on the cabinet box doesn't mean you should cut the
meter seal off and do whatever you want -- your customer does
not have the right to give you permission to open that locked
enclosure while the power company seal is in place and intact...

~~ Evan

This 'does too- does not' argument is pointless. It obviously varies by
area. IANAL, but I do not think the term 'trespass' applies- more like
'violating terms of service'. My recommendation to anyone, home owner or
licensed electrician, would be to pick up the phone and CALL the power
company. A local tradesman is likely known to them from previous jobs,
so they will say 'okay, got it', and move on. A homeowner, on the other
hand, they may want to send a truck out to pull the meter, since they
have no way of knowing if the homeowner knows what he is doing, even if
he uses all the right words on the phone. And in my limited experience,
some of those meters are surprisingly heavy, and the prongs can grab
awful hard sometimes. If you don't pull it out or put it back squarely
and firmly, some scary noises are possible. (I used to set up and take
down temporary poles on the job sites as a kid. They didn't always have
a working or unlocked kill switch on the pole. Somebody breaks the feed
from temporary pole to house, sometimes pulling the meter was the only
way to kill power before stepping into the mud puddle to recover the
loose wire.)

--
aem sends...- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

if replacing the main panel most likely you will need to upgrade the
amp capacity and or replace the service drop and meter can.

these all require disconnecting at the service head something only
electricians or power company workers should do!!

Evan wrote:
On May 13, 10:58 am, bud-- wrote:
Evan wrote:
On May 12, 8:01 pm, "John Gilmer" wrote:
Beyond a point, they have nothing to gain by making a fuss. They can't
claim "theft of services" because you are paying. It's at most a technical
violation of their service teriffs. Since they are in the business of
selling electricity, it's silly to disconnect a paying customer just for
spite.
They won't make a fuss with the customer, other than assessing
any fees authorized by the public utility overseers in your state...
However, they can and will go after the professional with the
electrical license with the public utility people or the state
electrical board and have his "ticket" punched... That is not
out of spite... It is out of a desire to protect the integrity of
their metering equipment and distribution of services...
Not "wanting" to call ahead to have power company employees
come out and pull the meter and making a bogus claim of
"it was an emergency" won't fly after the second time...
~~ Evan
You are generalizing from what may (or may not) be the practice where
you are.

I cut seals when needed and called the utility metering department
within a day or two. The utility had no problem with that.

I doubt utilities would have problems with licensed electricians cutting
seals and then telling them. A licensed electrician is going to be
involved in a fraud?

--
bud--


It is trespassing, not fraud, the customer whose house the electric
meter is installed in does not own or control the meter cabinet once
the meter is installed... It is sealed with a tamper evident seal and
once closed you need to call and obtain permission from the power
company to access what is inside of the meter cabinet...

Just because your local utility company has made a practice of
not making a major case out of it in the past has no bearing on
whether they can if they wanted to...

You're so full of **** saying the (alleged) practices where you are (and
(alleged) code enforcement where you are) applies everywhere.

The utility here has no problems with my cutting seals and telling them.
Roy says that applies for one of his utilities. A number of people have
said they have no problems with their utilities. Your rant doesn't
change reality.

Why do you think some of the utility companies out there use
those high security metal bands and medeco locks on their
meter enclosures ? It is to keep everybody but the power
company out...

Around here extraordinary sealing is only done where the utility has
evidence of tampering.

Electricians have the ability to cut into the
service drop lines if they need to kill the power where they
can reconnect them without trespassing in power company
enclosures...

This is even stupider. I don't really think the utility wants me to
remake *their* connection from their drop to the customer wires. And I
sure as hell don't want to make the connection unless I really have to
(like a service change). Service wires are dangerous - maybe 10,000A
available current (residential) and minimal protection from the utility.
OSHA has strong opinions about working on such wires.

You have multiple people telling you the same thing.
Another case of everyone-is-wrong-but-Evan.

--
bud--