Home |
Search |
Today's Posts |
|
Home Repair (alt.home.repair) For all homeowners and DIYers with many experienced tradesmen. Solve your toughest home fix-it problems. |
Reply |
|
LinkBack | Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#1
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Home circuit reading 40V all of a sudden?
Hi,
I plugged our vacuum in to the GFI in the kitchen, and when I turned it on, I heard a "pop" and assumed it was the GFI that needed to be reset for some reason. Well, the GFI plug was acting completely dead. I pulled it out of the wall, pulled off the line wires and tested them bare. 40V?!?!?! This circuit was fine this morning and has been installed for years. We recently remodeled and moved a couple plugs around, but they've been working fine for months (all on the GFI). The breaker goes both directions with a positive click just like the rest. This all started with the vac switch. I turned around and used the vac on a different circuit with no problem. Any chance someone's seen this before? Thanks! |
#2
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Home circuit reading 40V all of a sudden?
"Mike Reed" wrote in message ... Hi, I plugged our vacuum in to the GFI in the kitchen, and when I turned it on, I heard a "pop" and assumed it was the GFI that needed to be reset for some reason. Well, the GFI plug was acting completely dead. I pulled it out of the wall, pulled off the line wires and tested them bare. 40V?!?!?! This circuit was fine this morning and has been installed for years. We recently remodeled and moved a couple plugs around, but they've been working fine for months (all on the GFI). The breaker goes both directions with a positive click just like the rest. This all started with the vac switch. I turned around and used the vac on a different circuit with no problem. Any chance someone's seen this before? Thanks! The circuit to that outlet is most likely coming from another nearby kitchen outlet. Either it was wired through the "load" of the other outlets ground fault protection, or you have a loose connection at the location prior to the one with the dead outlet. The 40 volt reading means nothing |
#3
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Home circuit reading 40V all of a sudden?
On Sat, 6 Mar 2010 12:47:52 -0800 (PST), Mike Reed
wrote: Hi, I plugged our vacuum in to the GFI in the kitchen, and when I turned it on, I heard a "pop" and assumed it was the GFI that needed to be reset for some reason. Well, the GFI plug was acting completely dead. I pulled it out of the wall, pulled off the line wires and tested them bare. 40V?!?!?! This circuit was fine this morning and has been installed for years. We recently remodeled and moved a couple plugs around, but they've been working fine for months (all on the GFI). The breaker goes both directions with a positive click just like the rest. This all started with the vac switch. I turned around and used the vac on a different circuit with no problem. Any chance someone's seen this before? Plug a lamp into the outlet when you read the meter. If it really is 40V the neutral on your house has likely opened. The other leg of the 240V service will have 200V on it! This is obviously a very dangerous situation. Get it fixed FAST. Shut everything off in the meantime. |
#4
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Home circuit reading 40V all of a sudden?
Mike Reed wrote:
Hi, I plugged our vacuum in to the GFI in the kitchen, and when I turned it on, I heard a "pop" and assumed it was the GFI that needed to be reset for some reason. Well, the GFI plug was acting completely dead. I pulled it out of the wall, pulled off the line wires and tested them bare. 40V?!?!?! This circuit was fine this morning and has been installed for years. We recently remodeled and moved a couple plugs around, but they've been working fine for months (all on the GFI). The breaker goes both directions with a positive click just like the rest. This all started with the vac switch. I turned around and used the vac on a different circuit with no problem. Any chance someone's seen this before? Thanks! Check from the neutral wire at the outlet to the equipment ground. You should have near zero volts there. If not, the neutral is probably opened as someone else mentioned. The breaker might be bad even if it switches off and on like normal. |
#5
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Home circuit reading 40V all of a sudden?
When one wire is close to another AC wire, there is some
power that is transferred by magnetic waves. Your VOM is probably reading this "ghost voltage". There is probably not enough amperage to do anything useful. But, your VOM is very sensetive. -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. "Mike Reed" wrote in message ... Hi, I plugged our vacuum in to the GFI in the kitchen, and when I turned it on, I heard a "pop" and assumed it was the GFI that needed to be reset for some reason. Well, the GFI plug was acting completely dead. I pulled it out of the wall, pulled off the line wires and tested them bare. 40V?!?!?! This circuit was fine this morning and has been installed for years. We recently remodeled and moved a couple plugs around, but they've been working fine for months (all on the GFI). The breaker goes both directions with a positive click just like the rest. This all started with the vac switch. I turned around and used the vac on a different circuit with no problem. Any chance someone's seen this before? Thanks! |
#6
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Home circuit reading 40V all of a sudden?
On Sat, 6 Mar 2010 12:47:52 -0800 (PST), Mike Reed
wrote: Hi, I plugged our vacuum in to the GFI in the kitchen, and when I turned it on, I heard a "pop" and assumed it was the GFI that needed to be reset for some reason. Well, the GFI plug was acting completely dead. I pulled it out of the wall, pulled off the line wires and tested them bare. 40V?!?!?! If you are seeing an induced voltage, you are probably using a digital meter, which are high impedeance, mabye 11MegOhms per volt. You mght want to measure the same place with an analog meter. They are iirc 20KOhms or maybe 50KOhms per volt, either way must lower, so they put a load on the voltage that dissipates the 40 volts but very low maximum current that you may have, and the voltage will read correctly, probalby very near zero. Analog meters are those with needles that move. Except for FET-VOMs which are analog and use a needle, but have very high impedance. I'm not recommending one of those, but I think there have been none of those for sale for 25 years. And they probably say FET-VOM on them. At the bottom of the needle area, it says the impedance of the meter in ohms per volt. For most things, I still like digital meters, which are auto-polarity for one thing. This circuit was fine this morning and has been installed for years. We recently remodeled and moved a couple plugs around, but they've been working fine for months (all on the GFI). The breaker goes both directions with a positive click just like the rest. This all started with the vac switch. I turned around and used the vac on a different circuit with no problem. Any chance someone's seen this before? Thanks! |
#7
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Home circuit reading 40V all of a sudden?
On Mar 6, 7:29*pm, mm wrote:
On Sat, 6 Mar 2010 12:47:52 -0800 (PST), Mike Reed wrote: Hi, I plugged our vacuum in to the GFI in the kitchen, and when I turned it on, I heard a "pop" and assumed it was the GFI that needed to be reset for some reason. Well, the GFI plug was acting completely dead. I pulled it out of the wall, pulled off the line wires and tested them bare. 40V?!?!?! If you are seeing an induced voltage, you are probably using a digital meter, which are high impedeance, mabye 11MegOhms per volt. * You mght want to measure the same place with an analog meter. They are iirc 20KOhms or maybe 50KOhms per volt, either way must lower, so they put a load on the voltage that dissipates the 40 volts but very low maximum current that you may have, and the voltage will read correctly, probalby very near zero. Analog meters are those with needles that move. * Except for FET-VOMs which are analog and use a needle, but have very high impedance. I'm not recommending one of those, but I think there have been none of those for sale for 25 years. *And they probably say FET-VOM on them. * At the bottom of the needle area, it says the impedance of the meter in ohms per volt. For most things, I still like digital meters, which are auto-polarity for one thing. This circuit was fine this morning and has been installed for years. We recently remodeled and moved a couple plugs around, but they've been working fine for months (all on the GFI). The breaker goes both directions with a positive click just like the rest. This all started with the vac switch. I turned around and used the vac on a different circuit with no problem. Any chance someone's seen this before? Thanks! I agree with the induced voltage concept. I have encountered this many times. Put a power strip onto your outlet, then put your voltmeter into the power strip. If you get 40 V, then plug some appliance into another receptacle in the power strip. Your voltage will go to 0. The most likely thing to be wrong here is that your GFI failed (a common occurrence). You can pull the GFI out of the box and measure the voltage going to the GFI. If you have proper voltage entering the GFI, then your GFI is dead. If you don't have voltage, then your breaker is probably bad. Either is fairly easy to replace. |
#8
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Home circuit reading 40V all of a sudden?
On Mar 6, 4:50*pm, Dean Hoffman wrote:
Mike Reed wrote: Hi, I plugged our vacuum in to the GFI in the kitchen, and when I turned it on, I heard a "pop" and assumed it was the GFI that needed to be reset for some reason. Well, the GFI plug was acting completely dead. I pulled it out of the wall, pulled off the line wires and tested them bare. 40V?!?!?! This circuit was fine this morning and has been installed for years. We recently remodeled and moved a couple plugs around, but they've been working fine for months (all on the GFI). The breaker goes both directions with a positive click just like the rest. This all started with the vac switch. I turned around and used the vac on a different circuit with no problem. Any chance someone's seen this before? Thanks! * * Check from the neutral wire at the outlet to the equipment ground.. You should have near zero volts there. * If not, the neutral is probably opened as someone else mentioned. * * The breaker might be bad even if it switches off and on like normal. Thanks to everyone for the comments. Ok, I pulled out the receptacle and disconnected the line wires to test them the hot/neutral voltage is ~11V, probably the close-wire effect (mentioned elswhere) there. Neutral/ground is zero, and hot/ground is 124V, just like working receptacles. So now I guess I check to see if the breaker is bad? Obviously the breaker box poles would be ok since all the other circuits on that side are working fine, right? |
#9
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Home circuit reading 40V all of a sudden?
On Mar 7, 8:30*am, Mike Reed wrote:
On Mar 6, 4:50*pm, Dean Hoffman wrote: Mike Reed wrote: Hi, I plugged our vacuum in to the GFI in the kitchen, and when I turned it on, I heard a "pop" and assumed it was the GFI that needed to be reset for some reason. Well, the GFI plug was acting completely dead. I pulled it out of the wall, pulled off the line wires and tested them bare. 40V?!?!?! This circuit was fine this morning and has been installed for years. We recently remodeled and moved a couple plugs around, but they've been working fine for months (all on the GFI). The breaker goes both directions with a positive click just like the rest. This all started with the vac switch. I turned around and used the vac on a different circuit with no problem. Any chance someone's seen this before? Thanks! * * Check from the neutral wire at the outlet to the equipment ground. You should have near zero volts there. * If not, the neutral is probably opened as someone else mentioned. * * The breaker might be bad even if it switches off and on like normal. Thanks to everyone for the comments. Ok, I pulled out the receptacle and disconnected the line wires to test them the hot/neutral voltage is ~11V, probably the close-wire effect (mentioned elswhere) there. Neutral/ground is zero, and hot/ground is 124V, just like working receptacles. So now I guess I check to see if the breaker is bad? Obviously the breaker box poles would be ok since all the other circuits on that side are working fine, right? Well, I guess it can't be a bad breaker if the hot is hot working... So I have an open neutral probably? I'm starting to suspect a modification made about two montsh ago to accommodate our new double ovens. We had 240 going into the box for the oven, with one hot 240. The new oven required a 4-wire connection with two 120V hots. The electrician used the oven circuit's ground for the neutral, the neutral for the 2nd 120, and borrowed ground from an adjacent 120V GFI receptacle. I think something's hokey with that arrangement or its implementation. Strange this all started when I turned on the vac (which had worked fine on that circuit since the oven went in). |
#10
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Home circuit reading 40V all of a sudden?
"Mike Reed" wrote in message ... Ok, I pulled out the receptacle and disconnected the line wires to test them the hot/neutral voltage is ~11V, probably the close-wire effect (mentioned elswhere) there. Neutral/ground is zero, and hot/ground is 124V, just like working receptacles. So now I guess I check to see if the breaker is bad? Obviously the breaker box poles would be ok since all the other circuits on that side are working fine, right? If you have a very low voltage from the hot to neutral and 124 volts form the hot to ground, I would look for an open neutral. If you cut the breaker off and check the resistance between the neutral and ground you may find that open. There should be a very low (almost zero) resistance between the two. One guess is there are several recepticals on that circuit and atleast one is between that one and the breaker box. Try finding all of them and plugging a lamp into both sockets, one at a time. Chances are you will find power on one socket and not the other. A jumper between the screws can burn out between the two. |
#11
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Home circuit reading 40V all of a sudden?
On Mar 7, 8:15*am, Mike Reed wrote:
On Mar 7, 8:30*am, Mike Reed wrote: On Mar 6, 4:50*pm, Dean Hoffman wrote: Mike Reed wrote: Hi, I plugged our vacuum in to the GFI in the kitchen, and when I turned it on, I heard a "pop" and assumed it was the GFI that needed to be reset for some reason. Well, the GFI plug was acting completely dead. I pulled it out of the wall, pulled off the line wires and tested them bare. 40V?!?!?! This circuit was fine this morning and has been installed for years.. We recently remodeled and moved a couple plugs around, but they've been working fine for months (all on the GFI). The breaker goes both directions with a positive click just like the rest. This all started with the vac switch. I turned around and used the vac on a different circuit with no problem. Any chance someone's seen this before? Thanks! * * Check from the neutral wire at the outlet to the equipment ground. You should have near zero volts there. * If not, the neutral is probably opened as someone else mentioned. * * The breaker might be bad even if it switches off and on like normal. Thanks to everyone for the comments. Ok, I pulled out the receptacle and disconnected the line wires to test them the hot/neutral voltage is ~11V, probably the close-wire effect (mentioned elswhere) there. Neutral/ground is zero, and hot/ground is 124V, just like working receptacles. So now I guess I check to see if the breaker is bad? Obviously the breaker box poles would be ok since all the other circuits on that side are working fine, right? Well, I guess it can't be a bad breaker if the hot is hot working... So I have an open neutral probably? I'm starting to suspect a modification made about two montsh ago to accommodate our new double ovens. We had 240 going into the box for the oven, *with one hot 240. The new oven required a 4-wire connection with two 120V hots. The electrician used the oven circuit's ground for the neutral, the neutral for the 2nd 120, and borrowed ground from an adjacent 120V GFI receptacle. I think something's hokey with that arrangement or its implementation. Strange this all started when I turned on the vac (which had worked fine on that circuit since the oven went in). == Get a qualified electrician before you kill yourself. Failing that, get some code books and read. == |
#12
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Home circuit reading 40V all of a sudden?
"Mike Reed" wrote in message ... On Mar 7, 8:30 am, Mike Reed wrote: On Mar 6, 4:50 pm, Dean Hoffman wrote: Well, I guess it can't be a bad breaker if the hot is hot working... So I have an open neutral probably? I'm starting to suspect a modification made about two montsh ago to accommodate our new double ovens. We had 240 going into the box for the oven, with one hot 240. The new oven required a 4-wire connection with two 120V hots. The electrician used the oven circuit's ground for the neutral, the neutral for the 2nd 120, and borrowed ground from an adjacent 120V GFI receptacle. I think something's hokey with that arrangement or its implementation. Strange this all started when I turned on the vac (which had worked fine on that circuit since the oven went in). The new oven could have been wired the same as the old one. Just use 3 wires. While it will work ok electrically, the 'borrowed' ground wire may not be heavy enough to carry a short circuit current, especially if the short is not a 100% short, but a low to medium resistance short. That could result in the 'borrowed' ground wire getting too hot over a long period of time. Probably the borrowed ground wire is 14 gauge and the wires going to the stove are much larger. |
#13
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Home circuit reading 40V all of a sudden?
Mike Reed wrote:
On Mar 6, 4:50 pm, Dean Hoffman wrote: Mike Reed wrote: Hi, I plugged our vacuum in to the GFI in the kitchen, and when I turned it on, I heard a "pop" and assumed it was the GFI that needed to be reset for some reason. Well, the GFI plug was acting completely dead. I pulled it out of the wall, pulled off the line wires and tested them bare. 40V?!?!?! This circuit was fine this morning and has been installed for years. We recently remodeled and moved a couple plugs around, but they've been working fine for months (all on the GFI). The breaker goes both directions with a positive click just like the rest. This all started with the vac switch. I turned around and used the vac on a different circuit with no problem. Any chance someone's seen this before? Thanks! Check from the neutral wire at the outlet to the equipment ground. You should have near zero volts there. If not, the neutral is probably opened as someone else mentioned. The breaker might be bad even if it switches off and on like normal. Thanks to everyone for the comments. Ok, I pulled out the receptacle and disconnected the line wires to test them the hot/neutral voltage is ~11V, probably the close-wire effect (mentioned elswhere) there. Neutral/ground is zero, and hot/ground is 124V, just like working receptacles. Voltages sound like an open neutral, best covered by RBM. I might test with something like a light bulb in a pigtail socket. If the neutral was open just H-G would light up. So now I guess I check to see if the breaker is bad? Obviously the breaker box poles would be ok since all the other circuits on that side are working fine, right? Very slight chance a breaker is tripped and has to be turned off hard to reset. Do you know which breaker is for that receptacle? (H-G voltage should disappear when turned off.) Are any other receptacles dead? (Could be where neutral is open, or also downstream.) Do you know of other receptacles on that breaker that are working? (They would also be candidates for where the neutral is open.) -- bud-- |
#14
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Home circuit reading 40V all of a sudden?
Ralph Mowery wrote:
"Mike Reed" wrote in message ... On Mar 7, 8:30 am, Mike Reed wrote: On Mar 6, 4:50 pm, Dean Hoffman wrote: Well, I guess it can't be a bad breaker if the hot is hot working... So I have an open neutral probably? I'm starting to suspect a modification made about two montsh ago to accommodate our new double ovens. We had 240 going into the box for the oven, with one hot 240. The new oven required a 4-wire connection with two 120V hots. The electrician used the oven circuit's ground for the neutral, the neutral for the 2nd 120, and borrowed ground from an adjacent 120V GFI receptacle. I think something's hokey with that arrangement or its implementation. Strange this all started when I turned on the vac (which had worked fine on that circuit since the oven went in). The new oven could have been wired the same as the old one. Just use 3 wires. While it will work ok electrically, the 'borrowed' ground wire may not be heavy enough to carry a short circuit current, especially if the short is not a 100% short, but a low to medium resistance short. That could result in the 'borrowed' ground wire getting too hot over a long period of time. Probably the borrowed ground wire is 14 gauge and the wires going to the stove are much larger. I agree. Some range circuits used to be just hot-hot-neutral and the neutral was also used for the ground. New circuits need a ground, but the old connections are still explicitly grandfathered in the code. Picking up the ground elsewhere is not appropriate (and is a code violation). Also at least one wire size too small. I doubt it is the direct cause of the problem now. (But digging around in the box may have loosened a different connection.) -- bud-- |
#15
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Home circuit reading 40V all of a sudden?
On Mar 7, 9:31*am, "Ralph Mowery" wrote:
"Mike Reed" wrote in message ... On Mar 7, 8:30 am, Mike Reed wrote: On Mar 6, 4:50 pm, Dean Hoffman wrote: Well, I guess it can't be a bad breaker if the hot is hot working... So I have an open neutral probably? I'm starting to suspect a modification made about two montsh ago to accommodate our new double ovens. We had 240 going into the box for the oven, *with one hot 240. The new oven required a 4-wire connection with two 120V hots. The electrician used the oven circuit's ground for the neutral, the neutral for the 2nd 120, and borrowed ground from an adjacent 120V GFI receptacle. I think something's hokey with that arrangement or its implementation. Strange this all started when I turned on the vac (which had worked fine on that circuit since the oven went in). The new oven could have been wired the same as the old one. *Just use 3 wires. *While it will work ok electrically, the 'borrowed' ground wire may not be heavy enough to carry a short circuit current, especially if the short is not a 100% short, but a low to medium resistance short. *That could result in the 'borrowed' ground wire getting too hot over a long period of time. *Probably the borrowed ground wire is 14 gauge and the wires going to the stove are much larger. The ground is borrowed from a 14g cluster (same nut), but is a much larger stranded wire going to the oven box. The ground that was converted to neutral is much larger than 14g and stranded as well. So this should be ok then? |
#16
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Home circuit reading 40V all of a sudden?
On Mar 7, 9:37*am, bud-- wrote:
Mike Reed wrote: On Mar 6, 4:50 pm, Dean Hoffman wrote: Mike Reed wrote: Hi, I plugged our vacuum in to the GFI in the kitchen, and when I turned it on, I heard a "pop" and assumed it was the GFI that needed to be reset for some reason. Well, the GFI plug was acting completely dead. I pulled it out of the wall, pulled off the line wires and tested them bare. 40V?!?!?! This circuit was fine this morning and has been installed for years. We recently remodeled and moved a couple plugs around, but they've been working fine for months (all on the GFI). The breaker goes both directions with a positive click just like the rest. This all started with the vac switch. I turned around and used the vac on a different circuit with no problem. Any chance someone's seen this before? Thanks! * * Check from the neutral wire at the outlet to the equipment ground. You should have near zero volts there. * If not, the neutral is probably opened as someone else mentioned. * * The breaker might be bad even if it switches off and on like normal. Thanks to everyone for the comments. Ok, I pulled out the receptacle and disconnected the line wires to test them the hot/neutral voltage is ~11V, probably the close-wire effect (mentioned elswhere) there. Neutral/ground is zero, and hot/ground is 124V, just like working receptacles. Voltages sound like an open neutral, best covered by RBM. I might test with something like a light bulb in a pigtail socket. If the neutral was open just H-G would light up. So now I guess I check to see if the breaker is bad? Obviously the breaker box poles would be ok since all the other circuits on that side are working fine, right? Very slight chance a breaker is tripped and has to be turned off hard to reset. Do you know which breaker is for that receptacle? (H-G voltage should disappear when turned off.) Are any other receptacles dead? (Could be where neutral is open, or also downstream.) Do you know of other receptacles on that breaker that are working? (They would also be candidates for where the neutral is open.) -- bud-- Yep, I've ID'd the breaker, and some of the receptacles on that circuit are indeed working. I'll roll around and figure out if I can identify where the open neutral lies. |
#17
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Home circuit reading 40V all of a sudden?
On Mar 7, 9:23*am, "Ralph Mowery" wrote:
"Mike Reed" wrote in message ... Ok, I pulled out the receptacle and disconnected the line wires to test them the hot/neutral voltage is ~11V, probably the close-wire effect (mentioned elswhere) there. Neutral/ground is zero, and hot/ground is 124V, just like working receptacles. So now I guess I check to see if the breaker is bad? Obviously the breaker box poles would be ok since all the other circuits on that side are working fine, right? If you have a very low voltage from the hot to neutral and 124 volts form the hot to ground, I would look for an open neutral. *If you cut the breaker off and check the resistance between the neutral and ground you may find that open. *There should be a very low (almost zero) resistance between the two. *One guess is there are several recepticals on that circuit and atleast one is between that one and the breaker box. *Try finding all of them and plugging a lamp into both sockets, one at a time. *Chances are you will find power on one socket and not the other. *A jumper between the screws can burn out between the two. I like the lamp idea. On it. |
#18
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Home circuit reading 40V all of a sudden?
Mike,
I plugged our vacuum in to the GFI in the kitchen, and when I turned it on, I heard a "pop" and assumed it was the GFI that needed to be reset for some reason. Well, the GFI plug was acting completely dead. I pulled it out of the wall, pulled off the line wires and tested them bare. 40V?!?!?! This circuit was fine this morning and has been installed for years. We recently remodeled and moved a couple plugs around, but they've been working fine for months (all on the GFI). The breaker goes both directions with a positive click just like the rest. This all started with the vac switch. I turned around and used the vac on a different circuit with no problem. Start at the source and work your way back. Remove the breaker panel and measure the voltage right on the breaker when it's on. If you don't get 110/120 volts there, the breaker is probably faulty. Replace it before moving on. If you know the order the outlets are wired in, work your way along the circuit, testing at each outlet until you reach the end. Most likely you will read full voltage till you get past a certain outlet. Go back to the previous outlet, pull it out, and inspect it (with the power off, of course). I'm betting a connection has arced, come loose, or otherwise failed in one of the outlets. If you don't know the wiring order, pull every outlet out one by one and inspect the wiring. If it were me, I would go ahead and replace every outlet in the room. Unless it's a very large room or multiple rooms are on the circuit, it shouldn't cost more than $20 to replace all the outlets. Cheap peace of mind, and you'll know you have good outlets for the coming years. Also, if the outlets are wired "daisy chain" (incoming cable is wired to one side of the outlet, outgoing cable is wired to the other side), I recommend rewiring so the cables connect directly with a short pigtail running to the outlet in that box. That way, power runs directly from one box to the other, and not through an electrical outlet. Oh, if any outlets have the spring loaded "stab" connections on the back, replace the outlet and make the connection on the screw terminals. Finally, inspect the wiring where it enters and exits the box. I've never had a problem with plastic boxes, but metal boxes can cut into the cable or can be damaged if the clamp was overtightened. Good luck, Anthony |
#19
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Home circuit reading 40V all of a sudden?
On Mar 7, 10:19*am, Mike Reed wrote:
On Mar 7, 9:23*am, "Ralph Mowery" wrote: "Mike Reed" wrote in message ... Ok, I pulled out the receptacle and disconnected the line wires to test them the hot/neutral voltage is ~11V, probably the close-wire effect (mentioned elswhere) there. Neutral/ground is zero, and hot/ground is 124V, just like working receptacles. So now I guess I check to see if the breaker is bad? Obviously the breaker box poles would be ok since all the other circuits on that side are working fine, right? If you have a very low voltage from the hot to neutral and 124 volts form the hot to ground, I would look for an open neutral. *If you cut the breaker off and check the resistance between the neutral and ground you may find that open. *There should be a very low (almost zero) resistance between the two. *One guess is there are several recepticals on that circuit and atleast one is between that one and the breaker box. *Try finding all of them and plugging a lamp into both sockets, one at a time. *Chances are you will find power on one socket and not the other. *A jumper between the screws can burn out between the two. I like the lamp idea. On it. So, going from the GFI outlet closest to the breaker (next room), it was the only one working. I pulled the receptacle from the next one and examined it. Loose wire in there with some black from a flash/ burn. I tightened it up, restored power, and everything works. I'm replacing the receptacle right now (same 20A type). Thanks for the help everyone. |
#20
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Home circuit reading 40V all of a sudden?
"Mike Reed" wrote in message ... I like the lamp idea. On it. So, going from the GFI outlet closest to the breaker (next room), it was the only one working. I pulled the receptacle from the next one and examined it. Loose wire in there with some black from a flash/ burn. I tightened it up, restored power, and everything works. I'm replacing the receptacle right now (same 20A type). Thanks for the help everyone. Glad you found it, Simple wasn't it ? I am an electrician at a large plant, but I did not stay at a Holiday Inn. I had something similar like that happen to me about 15 years ago. It took out the hot wire instead of the neutral. Vacuum cleaner did that to me also. Guess that motor starting up draws lots of current and will take out any marginal receptacle. As far as the wiring question with the stove, I would not like to guess at that without seeing it. I don't think you will have any problems with it, but still do not like the idea of borrowing a ground with a wire of a much lesser gauge than the main wires. I don't know the code for the grounding, but bet it would not pass. As mentioned the old 3 wiring should be grandfathered in and would be ok. Most stoves will use the two 240 volt wires for the elements and very little current will be on the neutral wire, just whatever the stove uses for the 120 volts. Probably only the lights and clock/oven control circuits. |
#21
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Home circuit reading 40V all of a sudden?
I would suggest two things. You have a bad neutral. Very bad
and very dangerous, or you are using a sensitive digital meter that is picking up ghost voltage. As soon as you put a load on that kind of circuit, it will dorp to zero volts again. The first one you call the pro in. It might be in your home or it might be a problem out side. If it is the second issue, it is nothing of substance. |
#22
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Home circuit reading 40V all of a sudden?
On Mar 7, 9:05*am, Mike Reed wrote:
On Mar 7, 10:19*am, Mike Reed wrote: On Mar 7, 9:23*am, "Ralph Mowery" wrote: "Mike Reed" wrote in message .... Ok, I pulled out the receptacle and disconnected the line wires to test them the hot/neutral voltage is ~11V, probably the close-wire effect (mentioned elswhere) there. Neutral/ground is zero, and hot/ground is 124V, just like working receptacles. So now I guess I check to see if the breaker is bad? Obviously the breaker box poles would be ok since all the other circuits on that side are working fine, right? If you have a very low voltage from the hot to neutral and 124 volts form the hot to ground, I would look for an open neutral. *If you cut the breaker off and check the resistance between the neutral and ground you may find that open. *There should be a very low (almost zero) resistance between the two. *One guess is there are several recepticals on that circuit and atleast one is between that one and the breaker box. *Try finding all of them and plugging a lamp into both sockets, one at a time. *Chances are you will find power on one socket and not the other. *A jumper between the screws can burn out between the two. I like the lamp idea. On it. So, going from the GFI outlet closest to the breaker (next room), it was the only one working. I pulled the receptacle from the next one and examined it. Loose wire in there with some black from a flash/ burn. I tightened it up, restored power, and everything works. I'm replacing the receptacle right now (same 20A type). Thanks for the help everyone. Mike- When you replace the receptacle, wire it up using the pigtail method. The black from the "supply" and the black to downstream loads should be wire nutted together along with a short (pigtail) black wire that supplies the local receptacle. Do the same with the neutrals. Wiring up a receptacle in this manner will keep the rest of the circuit working even if a "local" device fails. cheers Bob |
#23
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Home circuit reading 40V all of a sudden?
Mike Reed wrote:
On Mar 7, 9:31 am, "Ralph Mowery" wrote: "Mike Reed" wrote in message ... On Mar 7, 8:30 am, Mike Reed wrote: On Mar 6, 4:50 pm, Dean Hoffman wrote: Well, I guess it can't be a bad breaker if the hot is hot working... So I have an open neutral probably? I'm starting to suspect a modification made about two montsh ago to accommodate our new double ovens. We had 240 going into the box for the oven, with one hot 240. The new oven required a 4-wire connection with two 120V hots. The electrician used the oven circuit's ground for the neutral, the neutral for the 2nd 120, and borrowed ground from an adjacent 120V GFI receptacle. I think something's hokey with that arrangement or its implementation. Strange this all started when I turned on the vac (which had worked fine on that circuit since the oven went in). The new oven could have been wired the same as the old one. Just use 3 wires. While it will work ok electrically, the 'borrowed' ground wire may not be heavy enough to carry a short circuit current, especially if the short is not a 100% short, but a low to medium resistance short. That could result in the 'borrowed' ground wire getting too hot over a long period of time. Probably the borrowed ground wire is 14 gauge and the wires going to the stove are much larger. The ground is borrowed from a 14g cluster (same nut), but is a much larger stranded wire going to the oven box. The ground that was converted to neutral is much larger than 14g and stranded as well. So this should be ok then? The conductor in the oven supply circuit should be a neutral (not ground). The main question is the size of the ground wire from the kitchen receptacle to the panel. It is also not appropriate (and is a code violation) to run the ground through another circuit. If it was my house I would remove the ground wire to the kitchen receptacles and use the supply neutral as the oven neutral and ground (NEC 350.140-exception). Finding installation instructions for the oven would be a good idea (hopefully would cover a supply circuit with a neutral and no ground). There may have been a bonding clip at the oven. Connecting it right is a safety issue - if you are not clear how to reconnect the oven it is better as is. Might be worth a call to the electrical inspector for advice on what to do. Unless your area has rather odd practices the electrician should not have wired the oven as he did. -- bud-- |
#24
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Home circuit reading 40V all of a sudden?
In ,
Mike Reed typed: Hi, I plugged our vacuum in to the GFI in the kitchen, and when I turned it on, I heard a "pop" and assumed it was the GFI that needed to be reset for some reason. Well, the GFI plug was acting completely dead. I pulled it out of the wall, pulled off the line wires and tested them bare. 40V?!?!?! This circuit was fine this morning and has been installed for years. We recently remodeled and moved a couple plugs around, but they've been working fine for months (all on the GFI). The breaker goes both directions with a positive click just like the rest. This all started with the vac switch. I turned around and used the vac on a different circuit with no problem. Any chance someone's seen this before? Thanks! What you have is an open circuit in the Hot lead somewhere back to the breaker box, almost certain. The 40 Vac will often be a simply "phantom volage" caused by all kinds of things in the air and the high impedance of the meter can see it. Plug a nightlight or anything with a bulb into the ckt and the voltage will almost surely go away. It's sort of like static voltage, but comes from a different source by way of an analogy. 40Vac is a rather typical voltage for such things. If the 40V ac does not go away when a bulb is plugged in, there there is a serious wiring problem somewhere but 99.999% of the time it's going to be an open ckt in the wiring. Probably at an outlet or a switch. In fact, even properly wired ckts will often show the 40Vac if there is a switch to the outlet and it's turned off; same situation an an open ckt. But when the switch goes on, it should jump to a solid 120Vac level, whatever voltage is normal for your area. It's may or may not be dangerous; it depends on where and how the open ckt has occurred. You should get it checked out soon, or open that breaker until someone does get there to look at it. -- Regards, Tom1 -- -- Newsgroups are great places to get assistance. But always verify important information with other sources to be certain you have a clear understanding of it and that it is accurate. |
#25
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Home circuit reading 40V all of a sudden?
In ,
RBM typed: "Mike Reed" wrote in message ... Hi, I plugged our vacuum in to the GFI in the kitchen, and when I turned it on, I heard a "pop" and assumed it was the GFI that needed to be reset for some reason. Well, the GFI plug was acting completely dead. I pulled it out of the wall, pulled off the line wires and tested them bare. 40V?!?!?! This circuit was fine this morning and has been installed for years. We recently remodeled and moved a couple plugs around, but they've been working fine for months (all on the GFI). The breaker goes both directions with a positive click just like the rest. This all started with the vac switch. I turned around and used the vac on a different circuit with no problem. Any chance someone's seen this before? Thanks! The circuit to that outlet is most likely coming from another nearby kitchen outlet. Either it was wired through the "load" of the other outlets ground fault protection, or you have a loose connection at the location prior to the one with the dead outlet. The 40 volt reading means nothing Well, the open will be somewhere between that line and the breaker/fuse box, not just at the adjacent fixture. The 40V reading is very likely just a phantom voltage. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phantom_voltage HTH, Twayne` -- Newsgroups are great places to get assistance. But always verify important information with other sources to be certain you have a clear understanding of it and that it is accurate. |
#26
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Home circuit reading 40V all of a sudden?
|
#27
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Home circuit reading 40V all of a sudden?
In ,
Mike Reed typed: On Mar 7, 8:30 am, Mike Reed wrote: On Mar 6, 4:50 pm, Dean Hoffman wrote: Mike Reed wrote: Hi, I plugged our vacuum in to the GFI in the kitchen, and when I turned it on, I heard a "pop" and assumed it was the GFI that needed to be reset for some reason. Well, the GFI plug was acting completely dead. I pulled it out of the wall, pulled off the line wires and tested them bare. 40V?!?!?! This circuit was fine this morning and has been installed for years. We recently remodeled and moved a couple plugs around, but they've been working fine for months (all on the GFI). The breaker goes both directions with a positive click just like the rest. This all started with the vac switch. I turned around and used the vac on a different circuit with no problem. Any chance someone's seen this before? Thanks! Check from the neutral wire at the outlet to the equipment ground. You should have near zero volts there. If not, the neutral is probably opened as someone else mentioned. The breaker might be bad even if it switches off and on like normal. Thanks to everyone for the comments. Ok, I pulled out the receptacle and disconnected the line wires to test them the hot/neutral voltage is ~11V, probably the close-wire effect (mentioned elswhere) there. Neutral/ground is zero, and hot/ground is 124V, just like working receptacles. So now I guess I check to see if the breaker is bad? Obviously the breaker box poles would be ok since all the other circuits on that side are working fine, right? Well, I guess it can't be a bad breaker if the hot is hot working... So I have an open neutral probably? I'm starting to suspect a modification made about two montsh ago to accommodate our new double ovens. We had 240 going into the box for the oven, with one hot 240. The new oven required a 4-wire connection with two 120V hots. The electrician used the oven circuit's ground for the neutral, the neutral for the 2nd 120, and borrowed ground from an adjacent 120V GFI receptacle. I think something's hokey with that arrangement or its implementation. I don't understand your description, but it's far from meeting code so you really do have something to be looked into. I still think you have an open ckt somewhere, either hot or neutral, depending on where you're seeing the 40Vac measurement. If one shows the 40V and not the other, that's going to be the one that is open ckted. Remember though if it's a switched outlet, the switch must be ON for the ac measurement. Another way to check the wires is to ohm them out. Kill the main power breakers and open the relevant breaker. and tie the hot to the neutral at one end or the other, and measure the ohms of the wires from the other end. It shouldn't be more than an ohm or two, often closer to a half ohm or so. Don't forget to disconnect hot from neutral when you're done. 120Vac hot to gnd = OK 0.0V neutral to gnd = OK assuming there IS a gnd wire connected. 120 Vac hot to neutral = OK. Radio Shack sells handly little testers you just plug in and read the LEDs for this kind of thing too; handy to have. Strange this all started when I turned on the vac (which had worked fine on that circuit since the oven went in). Sounds like the vac just tripped whatever had to happen to push the ckt to an open ckt. Not unusual for loose wires in a fixture/outlet/switch/etc. They start with a surge that would create an arc if there were a poor connection and eventually the carbon from the arc would open the ckt. Happens all the time with loose connections. HTH, Twayne` -- -- Newsgroups are great places to get assistance. But always verify important information with other sources to be certain you have a clear understanding of it and that it is accurate. |
#28
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Home circuit reading 40V all of a sudden?
In m,
Ralph Mowery typed: "Mike Reed" wrote in message ... On Mar 7, 8:30 am, Mike Reed wrote: On Mar 6, 4:50 pm, Dean Hoffman wrote: Well, I guess it can't be a bad breaker if the hot is hot working... So I have an open neutral probably? I'm starting to suspect a modification made about two montsh ago to accommodate our new double ovens. We had 240 going into the box for the oven, with one hot 240. The new oven required a 4-wire connection with two 120V hots. The electrician used the oven circuit's ground for the neutral, the neutral for the 2nd 120, and borrowed ground from an adjacent 120V GFI receptacle. I think something's hokey with that arrangement or its implementation. Strange this all started when I turned on the vac (which had worked fine on that circuit since the oven went in). The new oven could have been wired the same as the old one. Just use 3 wires. While it will work ok electrically, the 'borrowed' ground wire may not be heavy enough to carry a short circuit current, especially if the short is not a 100% short, but a low to medium resistance short. That could result in the 'borrowed' ground wire getting too hot over a long period of time. Probably the borrowed ground wire is 14 gauge and the wires going to the stove are much larger. That setup sounds fishy; not to code and not smart to have, IMO. Needs to be checked out by someone with experience IMO, preferably licensed electrician. In a N.A. 240Vac ckt, there should be NO current in the Neutral; it's all in the two 120 lines. The earth of course needs to always be there with a 4-wire connected stove. A "borrowed" ground isn't right any way you look at it, assuming it means earth ground. They should never be of different breakers until they get all the way back to the breaker box. This is for dryers, but it might help understand things: http://repair2000.com/cord.html Lots of info online if one looks. HTH, Twayne` - -- Newsgroups are great places to get assistance. But always verify important information with other sources to be certain you have a clear understanding of it and that it is accurate. |
#29
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Home circuit reading 40V all of a sudden?
In ,
Mike Reed typed: On Mar 7, 9:31 am, "Ralph Mowery" wrote: "Mike Reed" wrote in message ... On Mar 7, 8:30 am, Mike Reed wrote: On Mar 6, 4:50 pm, Dean Hoffman wrote: Well, I guess it can't be a bad breaker if the hot is hot working... So I have an open neutral probably? I'm starting to suspect a modification made about two montsh ago to accommodate our new double ovens. We had 240 going into the box for the oven, with one hot 240. The new oven required a 4-wire connection with two 120V hots. The electrician used the oven circuit's ground for the neutral, the neutral for the 2nd 120, and borrowed ground from an adjacent 120V GFI receptacle. I think something's hokey with that arrangement or its implementation. Strange this all started when I turned on the vac (which had worked fine on that circuit since the oven went in). The new oven could have been wired the same as the old one. Just use 3 wires. While it will work ok electrically, the 'borrowed' ground wire may not be heavy enough to carry a short circuit current, especially if the short is not a 100% short, but a low to medium resistance short. That could result in the 'borrowed' ground wire getting too hot over a long period of time. Probably the borrowed ground wire is 14 gauge and the wires going to the stove are much larger. The ground is borrowed from a 14g cluster (same nut), but is a much larger stranded wire going to the oven box. The ground that was converted to neutral is much larger than 14g and stranded as well. So this should be ok then? No. Ground and Neutral can NEVER be connected together anywhere but back at the breaker box! You have to work to code since you're doing it now, not back in the days of Edison; soon's you touch it, grandathering is out the window for that part of the ckt, if it ever was actually grandfathered, which I'm not so sure of. HTH, Twayne` -- Newsgroups are great places to get assistance. But always verify important information with other sources to be certain you have a clear understanding of it and that it is accurate. |
#30
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Home circuit reading 40V all of a sudden?
In ,
bud-- typed: Mike Reed wrote: On Mar 7, 9:31 am, "Ralph Mowery" wrote: "Mike Reed" wrote in message ... On Mar 7, 8:30 am, Mike Reed wrote: On Mar 6, 4:50 pm, Dean Hoffman wrote: Well, I guess it can't be a bad breaker if the hot is hot working... So I have an open neutral probably? I'm starting to suspect a modification made about two montsh ago to accommodate our new double ovens. We had 240 going into the box for the oven, with one hot 240. The new oven required a 4-wire connection with two 120V hots. The electrician used the oven circuit's ground for the neutral, the neutral for the 2nd 120, and borrowed ground from an adjacent 120V GFI receptacle. I think something's hokey with that arrangement or its implementation. Strange this all started when I turned on the vac (which had worked fine on that circuit since the oven went in). The new oven could have been wired the same as the old one. Just use 3 wires. While it will work ok electrically, the 'borrowed' ground wire may not be heavy enough to carry a short circuit current, especially if the short is not a 100% short, but a low to medium resistance short. That could result in the 'borrowed' ground wire getting too hot over a long period of time. Probably the borrowed ground wire is 14 gauge and the wires going to the stove are much larger. The ground is borrowed from a 14g cluster (same nut), but is a much larger stranded wire going to the oven box. The ground that was converted to neutral is much larger than 14g and stranded as well. So this should be ok then? The conductor in the oven supply circuit should be a neutral (not ground). The main question is the size of the ground wire from the kitchen receptacle to the panel. It is also not appropriate (and is a code violation) to run the ground through another circuit. If it was my house I would remove the ground wire to the kitchen receptacles and use the supply neutral as the oven neutral and ground (NEC 350.140-exception). Finding installation instructions for the oven would be a good idea (hopefully would cover a supply circuit with a neutral and no ground). There may have been a bonding clip at the oven. Connecting it right is a safety issue - if you are not clear how to reconnect the oven it is better as is. Might be worth a call to the electrical inspector for advice on what to do. Actually, since a stove is going to have exposed metal, the ground connection is going to be the required connection. If it has a clock or anything else that runs on 120Vac, then a 4th wire, Neutral must be added to the mix. A pure 240Vac ckt does not require Neutral to operate. This looks like a good explanation of it all: if one is missing, it's going to be the Neutral, not the ground. http://www.nojolt.com/basic-220-circuits.shtml Unless your area has rather odd practices the electrician should not have wired the oven as he did. I doubt that was done by an electrician; sounds more like a good samaritan who only obeys code when it makes sense to HIM. HTH, Twayne` -- Newsgroups are great places to get assistance. But always verify important information with other sources to be certain you have a clear understanding of it and that it is accurate. |
#31
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Home circuit reading 40V all of a sudden?
On Mon, 8 Mar 2010 17:55:55 -0500, "Twayne" wrote:
In , typed: On Sat, 6 Mar 2010 12:47:52 -0800 (PST), Mike Reed wrote: Hi, I plugged our vacuum in to the GFI in the kitchen, and when I turned it on, I heard a "pop" and assumed it was the GFI that needed to be reset for some reason. Well, the GFI plug was acting completely dead. I pulled it out of the wall, pulled off the line wires and tested them bare. 40V?!?!?! This circuit was fine this morning and has been installed for years. We recently remodeled and moved a couple plugs around, but they've been working fine for months (all on the GFI). The breaker goes both directions with a positive click just like the rest. This all started with the vac switch. I turned around and used the vac on a different circuit with no problem. Any chance someone's seen this before? Plug a lamp into the outlet when you read the meter. If it really is 40V the neutral on your house has likely opened. The other leg of the 240V service will have 200V on it! This is obviously a very dangerous situation. Get it fixed FAST. Shut everything off in the meantime. That's a kneejerk reaction. An open neutral on the "house" would affect everything in the house, not just that ckt, and the vac wouldn't have run on another ckt. I described, in the paragraph you quoted, how to figure out if it was a real reading and whether it was an open neutral. If it was, I said to fix it fast. Please read. As for 200V I assume you're thinking 120 + 120 = 240 but it doesn't work that way unless the EARTH GND were missing, in which case there would be many other symptoms, but none very dangerous or requiring shutting off anything but the relevant breaker. Under no current circumstances, 120 of opposing ac polarities, guess what it equals in between them? Somewhere between 0 and usually 120Vac. Wrong. *EXACTLY* that will happen if you lose the neutral connection off the house. The 240V will divide somehow, and depending on the load on either side, it could easily be 200/40. BTDT. First one should always assume and check for it being a phantom voltage and nothing more. Jeez! Before attempting to correct those who really know something about electricity[*], with your twaddle, READ. Jeez! [*] BTW, I am an EE. |
#32
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Home circuit reading 40V all of a sudden?
Twayne wrote:
In , bud-- typed: Mike Reed wrote: On Mar 7, 9:31 am, "Ralph Mowery" wrote: "Mike Reed" wrote in message ... On Mar 7, 8:30 am, Mike Reed wrote: On Mar 6, 4:50 pm, Dean Hoffman wrote: Well, I guess it can't be a bad breaker if the hot is hot working... So I have an open neutral probably? I'm starting to suspect a modification made about two montsh ago to accommodate our new double ovens. We had 240 going into the box for the oven, with one hot 240. The new oven required a 4-wire connection with two 120V hots. The electrician used the oven circuit's ground for the neutral, the neutral for the 2nd 120, and borrowed ground from an adjacent 120V GFI receptacle. I think something's hokey with that arrangement or its implementation. Strange this all started when I turned on the vac (which had worked fine on that circuit since the oven went in). The new oven could have been wired the same as the old one. Just use 3 wires. While it will work ok electrically, the 'borrowed' ground wire may not be heavy enough to carry a short circuit current, especially if the short is not a 100% short, but a low to medium resistance short. That could result in the 'borrowed' ground wire getting too hot over a long period of time. Probably the borrowed ground wire is 14 gauge and the wires going to the stove are much larger. The ground is borrowed from a 14g cluster (same nut), but is a much larger stranded wire going to the oven box. The ground that was converted to neutral is much larger than 14g and stranded as well. So this should be ok then? The conductor in the oven supply circuit should be a neutral (not ground). The main question is the size of the ground wire from the kitchen receptacle to the panel. It is also not appropriate (and is a code violation) to run the ground through another circuit. If it was my house I would remove the ground wire to the kitchen receptacles and use the supply neutral as the oven neutral and ground (NEC 350.140-exception). Finding installation instructions for the oven would be a good idea (hopefully would cover a supply circuit with a neutral and no ground). There may have been a bonding clip at the oven. Connecting it right is a safety issue - if you are not clear how to reconnect the oven it is better as is. Might be worth a call to the electrical inspector for advice on what to do. Actually, since a stove is going to have exposed metal, the ground connection is going to be the required connection. If it has a clock or anything else that runs on 120Vac, then a 4th wire, Neutral must be added to the mix. A pure 240Vac ckt does not require Neutral to operate. This looks like a good explanation of it all: if one is missing, it's going to be the Neutral, not the ground. http://www.nojolt.com/basic-220-circuits.shtml A mere 2 months ago you told HeyBub "next time I'll be a lot more careful." Obviously not. From world war 2 until the 1996 NEC, oven (and dryer) circuits were allowed to be run in a H-H-N cable (with restrictions) and the oven/dryer ground connection was allowed to be made to the supply neutral. Since the 1996 NEC the continued use of these circuits has been "grandfathered", as I previously wrote. If you were "careful" you could have read the citation I provided - NEC 350.140-exception. Many people here know all this, including Ralph Mowery. But you have to spread your ignorance. If you read *your* source in another of your posts http://repair2000.com/cord.html you would see a 3-wire dryer connection where the neutral wire is connected to the dryer ground by a "bonding clip" I referred to in my post above. And in a different post you said "What you have is an open circuit in the Hot lead somewhere...." You posted this not only after the OP provided voltage readings that indicated the open was in the neutral, but after the OP stated that he found the problem and it was an open neutral. Unless your area has rather odd practices the electrician should not have wired the oven as he did. I doubt that was done by an electrician; sounds more like a good samaritan who only obeys code when it makes sense to HIM. The OP stated it was an electrician. "A lot more careful"? When pigs fly. -- bud-- |
#33
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Home circuit reading 40V all of a sudden?
"bud--" wrote in message .. . Unless your area has rather odd practices the electrician should not have wired the oven as he did. I doubt that was done by an electrician; sounds more like a good samaritan who only obeys code when it makes sense to HIM. The OP stated it was an electrician. While it was stated an electrician did the work , if it was done by atleast one electrician I know, the work could be very substandard. I would not let this guy change the battery in a one cell flashlight. Sounds like the OP may have hired someone like this. |
Reply |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Forum | |||
OT - 'My Sudden Acceleration Nightmare' -- Reading the mind of Akio Toyoda as he faces Washington's grand inquistors | Metalworking | |||
Home electrical circuit dead | Home Repair | |||
Home Electrical Circuit (partial) Failure | Home Repair | |||
Home circuit breaker box question | Electronics Repair |