My friend and I were discussing building adobe home in areas where
adobe would not normally be used, Like here in North Carolina. We are
aware of its shortcomings for doing this but was trying to come up
with practical ways of overcoming them. Basically it gets down to are
their ways to make adobe hold up in wet climates short of mixing
concrete and calling it adobe.

Jimmie

On 3/4/2010 9:30 AM JIMMIE spake thus:

My friend and I were discussing building adobe home in areas where
adobe would not normally be used, Like here in North Carolina. We are
aware of its shortcomings for doing this but was trying to come up
with practical ways of overcoming them. Basically it gets down to are
their ways to make adobe hold up in wet climates short of mixing
concrete and calling it adobe.

Big subject. Interesting one, too. I flirted awhile with adobes back in
my 20s in Arizona, which of course is much more amenable to that kind of
construction.

Couple of things:

Adobe should be possible to build almost anywhere, even in places like
NC. The key, no matter where you build, is a good roof to shed water
away from the walls. If you do that, adobes can last centuries. (If you
don't, they can melt away faster than a snow fort.)

One thing adobe isn't particularly well suited for is anything over one
story in height.


--
You were wrong, and I'm man enough to admit it.

- a Usenet "apology"

On Mar 4, 12:30*pm, JIMMIE wrote:
My friend and I were discussing building adobe home in areas where
adobe would not normally be used, Like here in North Carolina. We are
aware of its shortcomings for doing this but was trying to come up
with practical ways of overcoming them. Basically it gets down to are
their ways to make adobe hold up in wet climates short of mixing
concrete and calling it adobe.

Jimmie


It may not be an acceptable building practice, design method
or construction material in your state so you should look into
it and research this and see if anyone has ever proposed
building a habitable adobe structure in North Carolina...

If they have, that is great for you, as you will have some sort
of standard or precedence to follow which applies to any Adobe
structures in North Carolina... If not, you might face an lengthy
uphill battle with the state building code people where you would
have to provide suitable engineering studies at your own costs by
structural engineers licensed to practice in North Carolina proving
that such building materials and methods are safe and suitable
for use in your state...

At the very least if there are not clearly defined standards for
using your desired materials or building methods you would
be seeking to build an "experimental structure" which would
require jumping through extra hoops... Until a new or previously
unused construction material or design method in your
jurisdiction is approved by those in authority you are looking
at what is considered an "experimental" test case scenario
which usually implies extra inspections and added costs...

~~ Evan

On Mar 4, 9:01*pm, David Nebenzahl wrote:
On 3/4/2010 9:30 AM JIMMIE spake thus:

My friend and I were discussing building adobe home in areas where
adobe would not normally be used, Like here in North Carolina. We are
aware of its shortcomings for doing this but was trying to come up
with practical ways of overcoming them. Basically it gets down to are
their ways to make adobe hold up in wet climates short of mixing
concrete and calling it adobe.

Big subject. Interesting one, too. I flirted awhile with adobes back in
my 20s in Arizona, which of course is much more amenable to that kind of
construction.

Couple of things:

Adobe should be possible to build almost anywhere, even in places like
NC. The key, no matter where you build, is a good roof to shed water
away from the walls. If you do that, adobes can last centuries. (If you
don't, they can melt away faster than a snow fort.)

One thing adobe isn't particularly well suited for is anything over one
story in height.

--
You were wrong, and I'm man enough to admit it.

- a Usenet "apology"

One of the things we were considering was applying stucco to protect
it. Are there any additives besides Portland cement that would make it
more weather resistant.

Jimmie

JIMMIE wrote:
My friend and I were discussing building adobe home in areas where
adobe would not normally be used, Like here in North Carolina. We are
aware of its shortcomings for doing this but was trying to come up
with practical ways of overcoming them. Basically it gets down to are
their ways to make adobe hold up in wet climates short of mixing
concrete and calling it adobe.

Jimmie

I wonder what people use on the straw bale houses. Maybe the same
stuff would help on the adobe buildings.

On Mar 5, 6:38*am, Dean Hoffman wrote:
JIMMIE wrote:
My friend and I were discussing building adobe home in areas where
adobe would not normally be used, Like here in North Carolina. We are
aware of its shortcomings for doing this but was trying to come up
with practical ways of overcoming them. Basically it gets down to are
their ways to make adobe hold up in wet climates short of mixing
concrete and calling it adobe.

Jimmie

* * I wonder what people use on the straw bale houses. * Maybe the same
stuff would help on the adobe buildings.

The straw house are usually sheathed with siding like a conventional
house. That has been given consideration too.


Jimmie

On 3/4/2010 11:30 AM, JIMMIE wrote:
My friend and I were discussing building adobe home in areas where
adobe would not normally be used, Like here in North Carolina. We are
aware of its shortcomings for doing this but was trying to come up
with practical ways of overcoming them. Basically it gets down to are
their ways to make adobe hold up in wet climates short of mixing
concrete and calling it adobe.

Jimmie


Whether adobe brick or rammed earth the structural walls could be
covered with a waterproof membrane like house wrap to keep moisture
out but allow vapor to escape. The house wrap could be covered with
any sort of material you care for. I've seen an acrylic stucco finish
that could easily be made to look like adobe. With modern materials
and a little imagination just about any traditional building can be
duplicated without sacrificing the aesthetic qualities of the structure.

You could dig a basement then the use the dirt to build your house.
There's got to be lots of green points in a concept like that

LdB

On 3/5/2010 3:38 AM Dean Hoffman spake thus:

JIMMIE wrote:

My friend and I were discussing building adobe home in areas where
adobe would not normally be used, Like here in North Carolina. We are
aware of its shortcomings for doing this but was trying to come up
with practical ways of overcoming them. Basically it gets down to are
their ways to make adobe hold up in wet climates short of mixing
concrete and calling it adobe.

I wonder what people use on the straw bale houses. Maybe the same
stuff would help on the adobe buildings.

Straw bale construction, while also very interesting, is a different
concept from adobe, at least thermally speaking. Straw acts as an
insulator. Adobe, on the other hand, is not a very good insulator,
contrary to popular conception; it's actually better at storing heat
than keeping it in or out. So an adobe building acts like a giant
thermal flywheel, storing heat at night and keeping the inside warmer,
while keeping the inside cooler during the day during hot weather, or
keeping the inside warmer than it normally would be during winter. In
that sense, it's the ideal building material for any climate, hot or cold.


--
You were wrong, and I'm man enough to admit it.

- a Usenet "apology"

On Mar 5, 2:17*pm, David Nebenzahl wrote:
On 3/5/2010 3:38 AM Dean Hoffman spake thus:



JIMMIE wrote:

My friend and I were discussing building adobe home in areas where
adobe would not normally be used, Like here in North Carolina. We are
aware of its shortcomings for doing this but was trying to come up
with practical ways of overcoming them. Basically it gets down to are
their ways to make adobe hold up in wet climates short of mixing
concrete and calling it adobe.

I wonder what people use on the straw bale houses. * Maybe the same
stuff would help on the adobe buildings.

Straw bale construction, while also very interesting, is a different
concept from adobe, at least thermally speaking. Straw acts as an
insulator. Adobe, on the other hand, is not a very good insulator,
contrary to popular conception; it's actually better at storing heat
than keeping it in or out. So an adobe building acts like a giant
thermal flywheel, storing heat at night and keeping the inside warmer,
while keeping the inside cooler during the day during hot weather, or
keeping the inside warmer than it normally would be during winter. In
that sense, it's the ideal building material for any climate, hot or cold..

Yeah. My concrete block veneered with granite house stores heat
and cold like a bitch. I have to keep the humidity low in the winter
to prevent water from condensing on the inside of the perimeter
walls.
In the summer, I have to run the central air day and night. If I try
to let
the house warm up a little during the day while I'm at work, it takes
hours to get it cool again.

Cindy Hamilton

On Mar 4, 12:30*pm, JIMMIE wrote:
My friend and I were discussing building adobe home in areas where
adobe would not normally be used, Like here in North Carolina. We are
aware of its shortcomings for doing this but was trying to come up
with practical ways of overcoming them. Basically it gets down to are
their ways to make adobe hold up in wet climates short of mixing
concrete and calling it adobe.

Jimmie

We are thinking of trying rammed earth bricks, Very large building
blocks made of local clay soil and about 10% Portland cement. We also
found that the building code does have standards for rammed earth.
They require test samples much like concrete. Beer and work permitting
we plan to have so samples made in the next couple of weeks, maybe the
next couple of days.

Jimmie

Jimmie

On 3/5/2010 2:02 PM JIMMIE spake thus:

On Mar 4, 12:30 pm, JIMMIE wrote:

My friend and I were discussing building adobe home in areas where
adobe would not normally be used, Like here in North Carolina. We
are aware of its shortcomings for doing this but was trying to come
up with practical ways of overcoming them. Basically it gets down
to are their ways to make adobe hold up in wet climates short of
mixing concrete and calling it adobe.

We are thinking of trying rammed earth bricks, Very large building
blocks made of local clay soil and about 10% Portland cement. We also
found that the building code does have standards for rammed earth.
They require test samples much like concrete. Beer and work
permitting we plan to have so samples made in the next couple of
weeks, maybe the next couple of days.

Be sure to let us know how this project progresses. And some of us would
love to see pictures too.


--
You were wrong, and I'm man enough to admit it.

- a Usenet "apology"

On Mar 4, 12:30*pm, JIMMIE wrote:
My friend and I were discussing building adobe home in areas where
adobe would not normally be used, Like here in North Carolina. We are
aware of its shortcomings for doing this but was trying to come up
with practical ways of overcoming them. Basically it gets down to are
their ways to make adobe hold up in wet climates short of mixing
concrete and calling it adobe.

Jimmie

Found out this AM that digging up local soil to make adobe or rammed
earth may not be very practical. In this case cutting blocks from the
ground would be the best way to make adobe bricks. It seems the soil
in my friends backyard is as hard as mine.

Jimmie

On 3/6/2010 6:40 AM JIMMIE spake thus:

On Mar 4, 12:30 pm, JIMMIE wrote:

My friend and I were discussing building adobe home in areas where
adobe would not normally be used, Like here in North Carolina. We are
aware of its shortcomings for doing this but was trying to come up
with practical ways of overcoming them. Basically it gets down to are
their ways to make adobe hold up in wet climates short of mixing
concrete and calling it adobe.

Found out this AM that digging up local soil to make adobe or rammed
earth may not be very practical. In this case cutting blocks from the
ground would be the best way to make adobe bricks. It seems the soil
in my friends backyard is as hard as mine.

Sounds like you have caliche, no?


--
You were wrong, and I'm man enough to admit it.

- a Usenet "apology"

On Mar 5, 3:38*pm, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On Mar 5, 2:17*pm, David Nebenzahl wrote:



On 3/5/2010 3:38 AM Dean Hoffman spake thus:

JIMMIE wrote:

My friend and I were discussing building adobe home in areas where
adobe would not normally be used, Like here in North Carolina. We are
aware of its shortcomings for doing this but was trying to come up
with practical ways of overcoming them. Basically it gets down to are
their ways to make adobe hold up in wet climates short of mixing
concrete and calling it adobe.

I wonder what people use on the straw bale houses. * Maybe the same
stuff would help on the adobe buildings.

Straw bale construction, while also very interesting, is a different
concept from adobe, at least thermally speaking. Straw acts as an
insulator. Adobe, on the other hand, is not a very good insulator,
contrary to popular conception; it's actually better at storing heat
than keeping it in or out. So an adobe building acts like a giant
thermal flywheel, storing heat at night and keeping the inside warmer,
while keeping the inside cooler during the day during hot weather, or
keeping the inside warmer than it normally would be during winter. In
that sense, it's the ideal building material for any climate, hot or cold.

Yeah. *My concrete block veneered with granite house stores heat
and cold like a bitch. *I have to keep the humidity low in the winter
to prevent water from condensing on the inside of the perimeter
walls.
In the summer, I have to run the central air day and night. *If I try
to let
the house warm up a little during the day while I'm at work, it takes
hours to get it cool again.

Cindy Hamilton


Cindy:

What sort of interior wall construction or insulation do you have on
the inside of your concrete block exterior walls ???

Also, have you looked into using a programmable thermostat which
you could use to activate the air conditioning in the early afternoon
before you come home -- then you would only have that problem
of taking hours to cool off when you come home early for whatever
reason...

~~ Evan

David Nebenzahl wrote:
On 3/6/2010 6:40 AM JIMMIE spake thus:

On Mar 4, 12:30 pm, JIMMIE wrote:

My friend and I were discussing building adobe home in areas where
adobe would not normally be used, Like here in North Carolina. We are
aware of its shortcomings for doing this but was trying to come up
with practical ways of overcoming them. Basically it gets down to are
their ways to make adobe hold up in wet climates short of mixing
concrete and calling it adobe.

Found out this AM that digging up local soil to make adobe or rammed
earth may not be very practical. In this case cutting blocks from the
ground would be the best way to make adobe bricks. It seems the soil
in my friends backyard is as hard as mine.

Sounds like you have caliche, no?


What is your time worth? Concrete block is pretty cheap, locally
produced from mostly local ingredients, and is a lot 'greener' than most
building materials. You can skim-coat the outside to get whatever look
you want, and you won't have to fight/educate the local code officials
about it. With modern insulation materials and vapor barriers, it will
be as dry and warm inside as any other method of construction, and
properly laid and reinforced, it lasts A Real Long Time. People in US
scoff, but concrete and clay block are still routinely used for
residential construction in many parts of the world, especially those
that have used up their cheap trees. I've had visitors from Europe visit
a US construction site and ask why we build our houses out of twigs.

Remember, way back when. people used mud brick and straw to build with,
because that was all they had. We have better stuff now. 50 years, we
may be back to building from bricks of ultra-compressed garbage, and
have little Wall-e droids running all over the job sites.

--
aem sends...

On 3/6/2010 3:19 PM aemeijers spake thus:

David Nebenzahl wrote:

On 3/6/2010 6:40 AM JIMMIE spake thus:

On Mar 4, 12:30 pm, JIMMIE wrote:

My friend and I were discussing building adobe home in areas where
adobe would not normally be used, Like here in North Carolina. We are
aware of its shortcomings for doing this but was trying to come up
with practical ways of overcoming them. Basically it gets down to are
their ways to make adobe hold up in wet climates short of mixing
concrete and calling it adobe.

Found out this AM that digging up local soil to make adobe or rammed
earth may not be very practical. In this case cutting blocks from the
ground would be the best way to make adobe bricks. It seems the soil
in my friends backyard is as hard as mine.

Sounds like you have caliche, no?

What is your time worth? Concrete block is pretty cheap, locally
produced from mostly local ingredients, and is a lot 'greener' than most
building materials. You can skim-coat the outside to get whatever look
you want, and you won't have to fight/educate the local code officials
about it. With modern insulation materials and vapor barriers, it will
be as dry and warm inside as any other method of construction, and
properly laid and reinforced, it lasts A Real Long Time. People in US
scoff, but concrete and clay block are still routinely used for
residential construction in many parts of the world, especially those
that have used up their cheap trees. I've had visitors from Europe visit
a US construction site and ask why we build our houses out of twigs.

Remember, way back when. people used mud brick and straw to build with,
because that was all they had. We have better stuff now. 50 years, we
may be back to building from bricks of ultra-compressed garbage, and
have little Wall-e droids running all over the job sites.

Well, we have better stuff now, yes and no. Of course, nobody builds
adobes because it's technologically superior, although in many ways it
really is.

And one is probably not going to easily get away with building an adobe
house anywhere in the urban grid, at least not without a lot of hassle
and jumping through bureaucratic hoops, educating building inspection
departments about this primitive building material, mollifying
suspicious neighbors, etc., etc. It's really a building material for
homes in the outlying areas. At least that's where I've seen all the
adobes I knew about (mostly in northern Arizona). There are a few
exceptions: in Santa Fe, New Mexico, the city authorities are
enlightened enough to deal with adobe as just another choice of material.

Where adobe really shines, apart from its esthetic appeal, is in its
ability to temper the living space with minimal energy input. In this
sense it's really a "green" building material (how I hate that term!) in
the truest sense. It takes much less energy overall, apart from human
labor primarily (and some fuel to mix mud and transport materials) to
build an adobe than practically any other kind of dwelling which uses
manufactured materials. It's low-tech and very forgiving; you can
literally sculpt your walls using garden tools.

When I was back in my idealistic youth I attended an adobe workshop in
northern Arizona, where we got hands-on experience building two houses.
One thing we did that would be valuable to anyone interested in this
material was to build an horno, a traditional Mexican outdoor
bread-baking oven, out of adobe block. It's a small enough project that
you can get your hands dirty, experiment, get a feel (literally) for the
materials, and see if it's really for you. Plus you'll have a free
outdoor adobe oven you can use to cook all kinds of stuff in.


--
You were wrong, and I'm man enough to admit it.

- a Usenet "apology"

On Mar 6, 8:41*pm, David Nebenzahl wrote:
On 3/6/2010 3:19 PM aemeijers spake thus:





David Nebenzahl wrote:

On 3/6/2010 6:40 AM JIMMIE spake thus:

On Mar 4, 12:30 pm, JIMMIE wrote:

My friend and I were discussing building adobe home in areas where
adobe would not normally be used, Like here in North Carolina. We are
aware of its shortcomings for doing this but was trying to come up
with practical ways of overcoming them. Basically it gets down to are
their ways to make adobe hold up in wet climates short of mixing
concrete and calling it adobe.

Found out this AM that digging up local soil to make adobe or rammed
earth may not be very practical. In this case cutting blocks from the
ground would be the best way to make adobe bricks. It seems the soil
in my friends backyard is as hard as mine.

Sounds like you have caliche, no?

What is your time worth? Concrete block is pretty cheap, locally
produced from mostly local ingredients, and is a lot 'greener' than most
building materials. You can skim-coat the outside to get whatever look
you want, and you won't have to fight/educate the local code officials
about it. *With modern insulation materials and vapor barriers, it will
be as dry and warm inside as any other method of construction, and
properly laid and reinforced, it lasts A Real Long Time. People in US
scoff, but concrete and clay block are still routinely used for
residential construction in many parts of the world, especially those
that have used up their cheap trees. I've had visitors from Europe visit
a US construction site and ask why we build our houses out of twigs.

Remember, way back when. people used mud brick and straw to build with,
because that was all they had. We have better stuff now. 50 years, we
may be back to building from bricks of ultra-compressed garbage, and
have little Wall-e droids running all over the job sites.

Well, we have better stuff now, yes and no. Of course, nobody builds
adobes because it's technologically superior, although in many ways it
really is.

And one is probably not going to easily get away with building an adobe
house anywhere in the urban grid, at least not without a lot of hassle
and jumping through bureaucratic hoops, educating building inspection
departments about this primitive building material, mollifying
suspicious neighbors, etc., etc. It's really a building material for
homes in the outlying areas. At least that's where I've seen all the
adobes I knew about (mostly in northern Arizona). There are a few
exceptions: in Santa Fe, New Mexico, the city authorities are
enlightened enough to deal with adobe as just another choice of material.

Where adobe really shines, apart from its esthetic appeal, is in its
ability to temper the living space with minimal energy input. In this
sense it's really a "green" building material (how I hate that term!) in
the truest sense. It takes much less energy overall, apart from human
labor primarily (and some fuel to mix mud and transport materials) to
build an adobe than practically any other kind of dwelling which uses
manufactured materials. It's low-tech and very forgiving; you can
literally sculpt your walls using garden tools.

When I was back in my idealistic youth I attended an adobe workshop in
northern Arizona, where we got hands-on experience building two houses.
One thing we did that would be valuable to anyone interested in this
material was to build an horno, a traditional Mexican outdoor
bread-baking oven, out of adobe block. It's a small enough project that
you can get your hands dirty, experiment, get a feel (literally) for the
materials, and see if it's really for you. Plus you'll have a free
outdoor adobe oven you can use to cook all kinds of stuff in.

--
You were wrong, and I'm man enough to admit it.

- a Usenet "apology"

great idea on the horno, Im thinking wood fired pizza oven

Jimmie

On Mar 6, 5:13*pm, Evan wrote:
On Mar 5, 3:38*pm, Cindy Hamilton wrote:


Yeah. *My concrete block veneered with granite house stores heat
and cold like a bitch. *I have to keep the humidity low in the winter
to prevent water from condensing on the inside of the perimeter
walls.
In the summer, I have to run the central air day and night. *If I try
to let
the house warm up a little during the day while I'm at work, it takes
hours to get it cool again.

Cindy Hamilton

Cindy:

What sort of interior wall construction or insulation do you have on
the inside of your concrete block exterior walls ???

1948-vintage drywall, skim-coated with plaster. Affixed to the block
with furring strips. No insulation.

Yes, I could take that down and fur out the walls with 2x4 or 2x6,
thus destroying the cove ceiling in my living room. Not gonna do it.

Also, have you looked into using a programmable thermostat which
you could use to activate the air conditioning in the early afternoon
before you come home -- then you would only have that problem
of taking hours to cool off when you come home early for whatever
reason...

I have a programmable thermostat. It's useful in the heating season.

I'd have to start cooling around lunchtime to get it cooled down by
the time I come home from work. Hardly seems worthwhile, plus
I usually come home for lunch, so I'd have to start cooling around the
time I leave for work. In effect, just what I do now.

Frankly, I could save a ton of money by murdering my asthmatic
husband, so that I could keep the windows open on mild nights. But
that just doesn't seem like a good idea in the long run. He earns
a whale of a lot more than we spend on electricity. Plus, I like him.

Cindy Hamilton

Cindy Hamilton wrote:
(snip)
Frankly, I could save a ton of money by murdering my asthmatic
husband, so that I could keep the windows open on mild nights. But
that just doesn't seem like a good idea in the long run. He earns
a whale of a lot more than we spend on electricity. Plus, I like him.

Cindy Hamilton

Chortle. Cindy, please never leave this group!
--
aem sends...

On Mon, 08 Mar 2010 19:50:12 -0500, aemeijers wrote:

Cindy Hamilton wrote:
(snip)
Frankly, I could save a ton of money by murdering my asthmatic
husband, so that I could keep the windows open on mild nights. But
that just doesn't seem like a good idea in the long run. He earns
a whale of a lot more than we spend on electricity. Plus, I like him.

Cindy Hamilton

Chortle. Cindy, please never leave this group!

Someone should teach her about insurance. ;-)