Hi,

I have what may or may not be an issue with frost in my attic.

First a little background....

I have a bungalo built in the 50's that has a gable style roof.
The home has plasterboard walls with what appears to be kraft paper for a
vapor barrier.
Original insulation is in the rafters (sawdust) as well as fiberglass bats
on top (R12).
2 x 4 construction, as well as 2 x 4 for the rafters.
The roof has 10 inch by 30 inch vents on the gables, as well as a few vents
about 2 feet from the peak. The peak vents appear to be added at a later
date. All vents have screening on them to keep out bugs and critters.

I'm currently doing a bathroom reno, gutted to the studs, replaced the
sawdust with R12 fiberglass, installed vapor barrier with acoustic sealant
around the top plates of the walls.

Three walls are drywalled as well as the roof. The bathroom vent has rigid
metal pipe, insulated and sealed with tuck tape. The vent housing was also
sealed with tuck tape and gaps around the housing have been sealed with
expanding foam.

The lone wall without drywall is the tub alcove. That will be covered with
durock, but I had to install the tub before I could do that.

Here is where my problem begins....

I was installing the supply pipes for the tub and I noticed a wet spot
between the studs on the open wall. At first, I thought a pipe may be
leaking, but on further inspection, I saw a leak working it's way through
the acoustic sealant where the vapor barrier was starting to lift.

I thought to myself, holy crap, my roof is leaking.... So I went to where my
attic hatch is (not in the bathroom), popped it open and noticed that the
underside of the roof had a light layer of frost which was melting and
falling onto the insulation.

The weather has warmed up here considerably for January and recently rose
from a -25 C high to around 0 C. There was no wind on the day that this
happened and the leak has now dried up on it's own. The time frame for all
of this was about 5 days.

I checked the attic last night and there is still frost on the underside of
the roof, but the melting has stopped, and no new frost has formed.

I suspect that this may be normal for this type of house and I probably
wouldn't have a leak if the wall covering was in place, and I don't see any
signs of roof leakage anywhere else in the home. I've been in the house for
9 years.

I'm thinking I may need to upgrade the venting in the attic. The front of
the house has a oversize eave that is stucco'd. This is common on all the
houses of my style in this neighborhood. This eave does not have venting and
I suspect the gable vents and newer roof aren't doing the job.

Any opinions on how to handle this? Perhaps I'm being paranoid and I should
just leave things for now.

On Jan 20, 12:52*pm, "Iowna Uass" wrote:
Hi,

I have what may or may not be an issue with frost in my attic.

First a little background....

I have a bungalo built in the 50's that has a gable style roof.
The home has plasterboard walls with what appears to be kraft paper for a
vapor barrier.
Original insulation is in the rafters (sawdust) as well as fiberglass bats
on top (R12).
2 x 4 construction, as well as 2 x 4 for the rafters.
The roof has 10 inch by 30 inch vents on the gables, as well as a few vents
about 2 feet from the peak. The peak vents appear to be added at a later
date. All vents have screening on them to keep out bugs and critters.

I'm currently doing a bathroom reno, gutted to the studs, replaced the
sawdust with R12 fiberglass, installed vapor barrier with acoustic sealant
around the top plates of the walls.

Three walls are drywalled as well as the roof. The bathroom vent has rigid
metal pipe, insulated and sealed with tuck tape. The vent housing was also
sealed with tuck tape and gaps around the housing have been sealed with
expanding foam.

The lone wall without drywall is the tub alcove. That will be covered with
durock, but I had to install the tub before I could do that.

Here is where my problem begins....

I was installing the supply pipes for the tub and I noticed a wet spot
between the studs on the open wall. At first, I thought a pipe may be
leaking, but on further inspection, I saw a leak working it's way through
the acoustic sealant where the vapor barrier was starting to lift.

I thought to myself, holy crap, my roof is leaking.... So I went to where my
attic hatch is (not in the bathroom), popped it open and noticed that the
underside of the roof had a light layer of frost which was melting and
falling onto the insulation.

The weather has warmed up here considerably for January and recently rose
from a -25 C high to around 0 C. There was no wind on the day that this
happened and the leak has now dried up on it's own. The time frame for all
of this was about 5 days.

I checked the attic last night and there is still frost on the underside of
the roof, but the melting has stopped, and no new frost has formed.

I suspect that this may be normal for this type of house and I probably
wouldn't have a leak if the wall covering was in place, and I don't see any
signs of roof leakage anywhere else in the home. I've been in the house for
9 years.

I'm thinking I may need to upgrade the venting in the attic. The front of
the house has a oversize eave that is stucco'd. This is common on all the
houses of my style in this neighborhood. This eave does not have venting and
I suspect the gable vents and newer roof aren't doing the job.

Any opinions on how to handle this? Perhaps I'm being paranoid and I should
just leave things for now.

It sounds as though there is moisture bulding up in the attic and that
it is not adequately vented to the outside. Is there a vapor barrier
under the insulation in the attic to keep the moisture from the house
from getting into the attic? If not, some sort of moisture barrier
paint (someone else may know if this exists) on all the ceilings may
reduce moisture getting into the attic. Otherwise, you will need to
increase the ventilation in the attic. By the way, what you call Tuck
tape is commonly called DUCT Tape as it is used (supposedly) to seal
seams in heating/cooling air ducts. You sound as though you are
located somewhat north of the Mason-Dixon line, maybe in Canada. If
you don't do anything, htere is a chance that mold will form, altho if
that hasn't happened in 50 years, you may be just fine.

On Jan 20, 2:13*pm, "hr(bob) "
wrote:
On Jan 20, 12:52*pm, "Iowna Uass" wrote:





Hi,

I have what may or may not be an issue with frost in my attic.

First a little background....

I have a bungalo built in the 50's that has a gable style roof.
The home has plasterboard walls with what appears to be kraft paper for a
vapor barrier.
Original insulation is in the rafters (sawdust) as well as fiberglass bats
on top (R12).
2 x 4 construction, as well as 2 x 4 for the rafters.
The roof has 10 inch by 30 inch vents on the gables, as well as a few vents
about 2 feet from the peak. The peak vents appear to be added at a later
date. All vents have screening on them to keep out bugs and critters.

I'm currently doing a bathroom reno, gutted to the studs, replaced the
sawdust with R12 fiberglass, installed vapor barrier with acoustic sealant
around the top plates of the walls.

Three walls are drywalled as well as the roof. The bathroom vent has rigid
metal pipe, insulated and sealed with tuck tape. The vent housing was also
sealed with tuck tape and gaps around the housing have been sealed with
expanding foam.

The lone wall without drywall is the tub alcove. That will be covered with
durock, but I had to install the tub before I could do that.

Here is where my problem begins....

I was installing the supply pipes for the tub and I noticed a wet spot
between the studs on the open wall. At first, I thought a pipe may be
leaking, but on further inspection, I saw a leak working it's way through
the acoustic sealant where the vapor barrier was starting to lift.

I thought to myself, holy crap, my roof is leaking.... So I went to where my
attic hatch is (not in the bathroom), popped it open and noticed that the
underside of the roof had a light layer of frost which was melting and
falling onto the insulation.

The weather has warmed up here considerably for January and recently rose
from a -25 C high to around 0 C. There was no wind on the day that this
happened and the leak has now dried up on it's own. The time frame for all
of this was about 5 days.

I checked the attic last night and there is still frost on the underside of
the roof, but the melting has stopped, and no new frost has formed.

I suspect that this may be normal for this type of house and I probably
wouldn't have a leak if the wall covering was in place, and I don't see any
signs of roof leakage anywhere else in the home. I've been in the house for
9 years.

I'm thinking I may need to upgrade the venting in the attic. The front of
the house has a oversize eave that is stucco'd. This is common on all the
houses of my style in this neighborhood. This eave does not have venting and
I suspect the gable vents and newer roof aren't doing the job.

Any opinions on how to handle this? Perhaps I'm being paranoid and I should
just leave things for now.

It sounds as though there is moisture bulding up in the attic and that
it is not adequately vented to the outside. *Is there a vapor barrier
under the insulation in the attic to keep the moisture from the house
from getting into the attic? *If not, some sort of moisture barrier
paint (someone else may know if this exists) on all the ceilings may
reduce moisture getting into the attic. *Otherwise, you will need to
increase the ventilation in the attic. *By the way, what you call Tuck
tape is commonly called DUCT Tape as it is used (supposedly) to seal
seams in heating/cooling air ducts. *You sound as though you are
located somewhat north of the Mason-Dixon line, maybe in Canada. *If
you don't do anything, htere is a chance that mold will form, altho if
that hasn't happened in 50 years, you may be just fine.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Sounds like my parent's home. Solution was to replace the plywood
soffit with perforated vynil and adding a ridge vent.

JImmie

Iowna Uass wrote:
Hi,

I have what may or may not be an issue with frost in my attic.

First a little background....

I have a bungalo built in the 50's that has a gable style roof.
The home has plasterboard walls with what appears to be kraft paper
for a vapor barrier.
Original insulation is in the rafters (sawdust) as well as fiberglass
bats on top (R12).
2 x 4 construction, as well as 2 x 4 for the rafters.
The roof has 10 inch by 30 inch vents on the gables, as well as a few
vents about 2 feet from the peak. The peak vents appear to be added
at a later date. All vents have screening on them to keep out bugs
and critters.
I'm currently doing a bathroom reno, gutted to the studs, replaced the
sawdust with R12 fiberglass, installed vapor barrier with acoustic
sealant around the top plates of the walls.

Three walls are drywalled as well as the roof. The bathroom vent has
rigid metal pipe, insulated and sealed with tuck tape. The vent
housing was also sealed with tuck tape and gaps around the housing
have been sealed with expanding foam.

The lone wall without drywall is the tub alcove. That will be covered
with durock, but I had to install the tub before I could do that.

Here is where my problem begins....

I was installing the supply pipes for the tub and I noticed a wet spot
between the studs on the open wall. At first, I thought a pipe may be
leaking, but on further inspection, I saw a leak working it's way
through the acoustic sealant where the vapor barrier was starting to
lift.
I thought to myself, holy crap, my roof is leaking.... So I went to
where my attic hatch is (not in the bathroom), popped it open and
noticed that the underside of the roof had a light layer of frost
which was melting and falling onto the insulation.

The weather has warmed up here considerably for January and recently
rose from a -25 C high to around 0 C. There was no wind on the day
that this happened and the leak has now dried up on it's own. The
time frame for all of this was about 5 days.

I checked the attic last night and there is still frost on the
underside of the roof, but the melting has stopped, and no new frost
has formed.
I suspect that this may be normal for this type of house and I
probably wouldn't have a leak if the wall covering was in place, and
I don't see any signs of roof leakage anywhere else in the home. I've
been in the house for 9 years.

I'm thinking I may need to upgrade the venting in the attic. The
front of the house has a oversize eave that is stucco'd. This is
common on all the houses of my style in this neighborhood. This eave
does not have venting and I suspect the gable vents and newer roof
aren't doing the job.
Any opinions on how to handle this? Perhaps I'm being paranoid and I
should just leave things for now.

Yup. Insufficient attic ventilation would be my guess.

Rule of thumb: You can't have too much soffit venting.

"Iowna Uass" wrote in message
...
Hi,

I have what may or may not be an issue with frost in my attic.

IT IS A BIG ISSUE. MOLD. ROT. DETERIORATION OF THE LOAD BEARING MEMBERS.


First a little background....

stuff snipped ......

I'm thinking I may need to upgrade the venting in the attic. The front of
the house has a oversize eave that is stucco'd. This is common on all the
houses of my style in this neighborhood. This eave does not have venting
and I suspect the gable vents and newer roof aren't doing the job.

Any opinions on how to handle this? Perhaps I'm being paranoid and I
should just leave things for now.

I'd say vent the eaves. And have a pro come and look at it and give you a
free estimate and pick his brain to see if it is a DIY thing or a major job.
This is not a small item that I would personally leave to molder.

Steve

hr(bob) wrote:
By the way, what you call Tuck
tape is commonly called DUCT Tape as it is used (supposedly) to seal
seams in heating/cooling air ducts.

Where I live, standard "Duct Tape" is NOT approved for ducts. It just doesn't
last.

"hr(bob) " wrote in message
...
On Jan 20, 12:52 pm, "Iowna Uass" wrote:
Hi,

I have what may or may not be an issue with frost in my attic.

First a little background....

I have a bungalo built in the 50's that has a gable style roof.
The home has plasterboard walls with what appears to be kraft paper for a
vapor barrier.
Original insulation is in the rafters (sawdust) as well as fiberglass bats
on top (R12).
2 x 4 construction, as well as 2 x 4 for the rafters.
The roof has 10 inch by 30 inch vents on the gables, as well as a few
vents
about 2 feet from the peak. The peak vents appear to be added at a later
date. All vents have screening on them to keep out bugs and critters.

I'm currently doing a bathroom reno, gutted to the studs, replaced the
sawdust with R12 fiberglass, installed vapor barrier with acoustic sealant
around the top plates of the walls.

Three walls are drywalled as well as the roof. The bathroom vent has rigid
metal pipe, insulated and sealed with tuck tape. The vent housing was also
sealed with tuck tape and gaps around the housing have been sealed with
expanding foam.

The lone wall without drywall is the tub alcove. That will be covered with
durock, but I had to install the tub before I could do that.

Here is where my problem begins....

I was installing the supply pipes for the tub and I noticed a wet spot
between the studs on the open wall. At first, I thought a pipe may be
leaking, but on further inspection, I saw a leak working it's way through
the acoustic sealant where the vapor barrier was starting to lift.

I thought to myself, holy crap, my roof is leaking.... So I went to where
my
attic hatch is (not in the bathroom), popped it open and noticed that the
underside of the roof had a light layer of frost which was melting and
falling onto the insulation.

The weather has warmed up here considerably for January and recently rose
from a -25 C high to around 0 C. There was no wind on the day that this
happened and the leak has now dried up on it's own. The time frame for all
of this was about 5 days.

I checked the attic last night and there is still frost on the underside
of
the roof, but the melting has stopped, and no new frost has formed.

I suspect that this may be normal for this type of house and I probably
wouldn't have a leak if the wall covering was in place, and I don't see
any
signs of roof leakage anywhere else in the home. I've been in the house
for
9 years.

I'm thinking I may need to upgrade the venting in the attic. The front of
the house has a oversize eave that is stucco'd. This is common on all the
houses of my style in this neighborhood. This eave does not have venting
and
I suspect the gable vents and newer roof aren't doing the job.

Any opinions on how to handle this? Perhaps I'm being paranoid and I
should
just leave things for now.

It sounds as though there is moisture bulding up in the attic and that
it is not adequately vented to the outside. Is there a vapor barrier
under the insulation in the attic to keep the moisture from the house
from getting into the attic? If not, some sort of moisture barrier
paint (someone else may know if this exists) on all the ceilings may
reduce moisture getting into the attic. Otherwise, you will need to
increase the ventilation in the attic. By the way, what you call Tuck
tape is commonly called DUCT Tape as it is used (supposedly) to seal
seams in heating/cooling air ducts. You sound as though you are
located somewhat north of the Mason-Dixon line, maybe in Canada. If
you don't do anything, htere is a chance that mold will form, altho if
that hasn't happened in 50 years, you may be just fine.

The DUCT tape you refer to is not what I'm using.

It is referred to as building wrap tape.
It uses the brand names such as "Tuck" tape or "Tyvek"

See example with this link...

http://www.can-save.ca/Building-Enve...tuck-tape.html

And yes, I am north of the 49th parallel.
Winnipeg, Manitoba.
Unusually warm for January this year.

"Steve B" wrote in message
...

"Iowna Uass" wrote in message
...
Hi,

I have what may or may not be an issue with frost in my attic.

IT IS A BIG ISSUE. MOLD. ROT. DETERIORATION OF THE LOAD BEARING
MEMBERS.


First a little background....

stuff snipped ......

I'm thinking I may need to upgrade the venting in the attic. The front of
the house has a oversize eave that is stucco'd. This is common on all the
houses of my style in this neighborhood. This eave does not have venting
and I suspect the gable vents and newer roof aren't doing the job.

Any opinions on how to handle this? Perhaps I'm being paranoid and I
should just leave things for now.

I'd say vent the eaves. And have a pro come and look at it and give you a
free estimate and pick his brain to see if it is a DIY thing or a major
job. This is not a small item that I would personally leave to molder.

Steve


You have to keep in mind that all the houses in the neighborhood of the same
style have this type of eave.
When I was demolishing the old bathroom, there was no mould on the backside
of the plasterboard, the old insulation showed no signs of rot, the rafters
are well aged fir and rot\mould\mildew free.

I'm not ripping off my eaves just yet, but I may consider adding a whirly
bird to my roof to promote ventilation.

Iowna Uass wrote:

I'm not ripping off my eaves just yet, but I may consider adding a
whirly bird to my roof to promote ventilation.

Are the eaves not accessible from the attic? If they are, it should not be a big
job to add vents. I just cut retangular holes into my eaves and snapped metal
vents into them.

If eave vents are not possible, adding additional end vents as low down in the
corners as you can will help get the convection airflow moving.

On Wed, 20 Jan 2010 15:22:16 -0600, Iowna Uass wrote:

"hr(bob) " wrote in message
...
On Jan 20, 12:52 pm, "Iowna Uass" wrote:
Hi,

I have what may or may not be an issue with frost in my attic.

First a little background....

I have a bungalo built in the 50's that has a gable style roof.
The home has plasterboard walls with what appears to be kraft paper for a
vapor barrier.
Original insulation is in the rafters (sawdust) as well as fiberglass bats
on top (R12).
2 x 4 construction, as well as 2 x 4 for the rafters.
The roof has 10 inch by 30 inch vents on the gables, as well as a few
vents
about 2 feet from the peak. The peak vents appear to be added at a later
date. All vents have screening on them to keep out bugs and critters.

I'm currently doing a bathroom reno, gutted to the studs, replaced the
sawdust with R12 fiberglass, installed vapor barrier with acoustic sealant
around the top plates of the walls.

Three walls are drywalled as well as the roof. The bathroom vent has rigid
metal pipe, insulated and sealed with tuck tape. The vent housing was also
sealed with tuck tape and gaps around the housing have been sealed with
expanding foam.

The lone wall without drywall is the tub alcove. That will be covered with
durock, but I had to install the tub before I could do that.

Here is where my problem begins....

I was installing the supply pipes for the tub and I noticed a wet spot
between the studs on the open wall. At first, I thought a pipe may be
leaking, but on further inspection, I saw a leak working it's way through
the acoustic sealant where the vapor barrier was starting to lift.

I thought to myself, holy crap, my roof is leaking.... So I went to where
my
attic hatch is (not in the bathroom), popped it open and noticed that the
underside of the roof had a light layer of frost which was melting and
falling onto the insulation.

The weather has warmed up here considerably for January and recently rose
from a -25 C high to around 0 C. There was no wind on the day that this
happened and the leak has now dried up on it's own. The time frame for all
of this was about 5 days.

I checked the attic last night and there is still frost on the underside
of
the roof, but the melting has stopped, and no new frost has formed.

I suspect that this may be normal for this type of house and I probably
wouldn't have a leak if the wall covering was in place, and I don't see
any
signs of roof leakage anywhere else in the home. I've been in the house
for
9 years.

I'm thinking I may need to upgrade the venting in the attic. The front of
the house has a oversize eave that is stucco'd. This is common on all the
houses of my style in this neighborhood. This eave does not have venting
and
I suspect the gable vents and newer roof aren't doing the job.

Any opinions on how to handle this? Perhaps I'm being paranoid and I
should
just leave things for now.

It sounds as though there is moisture bulding up in the attic and that
it is not adequately vented to the outside. Is there a vapor barrier
under the insulation in the attic to keep the moisture from the house
from getting into the attic? If not, some sort of moisture barrier
paint (someone else may know if this exists) on all the ceilings may
reduce moisture getting into the attic. Otherwise, you will need to
increase the ventilation in the attic. By the way, what you call Tuck
tape is commonly called DUCT Tape as it is used (supposedly) to seal
seams in heating/cooling air ducts. You sound as though you are
located somewhat north of the Mason-Dixon line, maybe in Canada. If
you don't do anything, htere is a chance that mold will form, altho if
that hasn't happened in 50 years, you may be just fine.

In super insulated homes you do NOT put a vapor barrier in the ceiling. The
moisture needs an outlet and that is through the ceiling. If you do put a
vapor barrier in the ceiling you will get moldy ceilings. You need to
increase the ventilation in the attic.

On Jan 20, 12:52*pm, "Iowna Uass" wrote:
Hi,

I have what may or may not be an issue with frost in my attic.

First a little background....

I have a bungalo built in the 50's that has a gable style roof.
The home has plasterboard walls with what appears to be kraft paper for a
vapor barrier.
Original insulation is in the rafters (sawdust) as well as fiberglass bats
on top (R12).
2 x 4 construction, as well as 2 x 4 for the rafters.
The roof has 10 inch by 30 inch vents on the gables, as well as a few vents
about 2 feet from the peak. The peak vents appear to be added at a later
date. All vents have screening on them to keep out bugs and critters.

I'm currently doing a bathroom reno, gutted to the studs, replaced the
sawdust with R12 fiberglass, installed vapor barrier with acoustic sealant
around the top plates of the walls.

Three walls are drywalled as well as the roof. The bathroom vent has rigid
metal pipe, insulated and sealed with tuck tape. The vent housing was also
sealed with tuck tape and gaps around the housing have been sealed with
expanding foam.

The lone wall without drywall is the tub alcove. That will be covered with
durock, but I had to install the tub before I could do that.

Here is where my problem begins....

I was installing the supply pipes for the tub and I noticed a wet spot
between the studs on the open wall. At first, I thought a pipe may be
leaking, but on further inspection, I saw a leak working it's way through
the acoustic sealant where the vapor barrier was starting to lift.

I thought to myself, holy crap, my roof is leaking.... So I went to where my
attic hatch is (not in the bathroom), popped it open and noticed that the
underside of the roof had a light layer of frost which was melting and
falling onto the insulation.

The weather has warmed up here considerably for January and recently rose
from a -25 C high to around 0 C. There was no wind on the day that this
happened and the leak has now dried up on it's own. The time frame for all
of this was about 5 days.

I checked the attic last night and there is still frost on the underside of
the roof, but the melting has stopped, and no new frost has formed.

I suspect that this may be normal for this type of house and I probably
wouldn't have a leak if the wall covering was in place, and I don't see any
signs of roof leakage anywhere else in the home. I've been in the house for
9 years.

I'm thinking I may need to upgrade the venting in the attic. The front of
the house has a oversize eave that is stucco'd. This is common on all the
houses of my style in this neighborhood. This eave does not have venting and
I suspect the gable vents and newer roof aren't doing the job.

Any opinions on how to handle this? Perhaps I'm being paranoid and I should
just leave things for now.

What is happening has been happening awhile so before panicking look
at the color and condition of all the wood, if venting is bad it will
be black and even areas of mold and maybe rot, if its brown venting is
probably fine since it goes black fast with inadequate venting. Frost
can happen it certain weather conditions, its normal. Maybe venting is
fine but somewhere alot of warm air is escaping into the attic. How
thick it total insulation, do you have R12 on top of 4" so its maybe
R27 total? R 40 would be a minimum. Fiberglass batts loose
effectiveness as its get real cold and the R12 you put in is
compressing to less, measure what you have now total and figure R
3.75" for what you have and add more unfaced insulation, the vapor
barrier should only be above the ceiling on the attic floor.

"Iowna Uass" wrote in message
...

"Steve B" wrote in message
...

"Iowna Uass" wrote in message
...
Hi,

I have what may or may not be an issue with frost in my attic.

IT IS A BIG ISSUE. MOLD. ROT. DETERIORATION OF THE LOAD BEARING
MEMBERS.


First a little background....

stuff snipped ......

I'm thinking I may need to upgrade the venting in the attic. The front
of the house has a oversize eave that is stucco'd. This is common on all
the houses of my style in this neighborhood. This eave does not have
venting and I suspect the gable vents and newer roof aren't doing the
job.

Any opinions on how to handle this? Perhaps I'm being paranoid and I
should just leave things for now.

I'd say vent the eaves. And have a pro come and look at it and give you
a free estimate and pick his brain to see if it is a DIY thing or a major
job. This is not a small item that I would personally leave to molder.

Steve


You have to keep in mind that all the houses in the neighborhood of the
same style have this type of eave.
When I was demolishing the old bathroom, there was no mould on the
backside of the plasterboard, the old insulation showed no signs of rot,
the rafters are well aged fir and rot\mould\mildew free.

I'm not ripping off my eaves just yet, but I may consider adding a whirly
bird to my roof to promote ventilation.

You have a house that is more than half a century old. In the fifties, they
did lots of things differently. And many of those things were done poorly,
with the available materials and technology, but we didn't know it back
then. How does redoing the bath wall have anything to do with the situation
in the attic? And what do all the other houses in the neighborhood have to
do with the situation in your house? Maybe they're all festering mold bags.
Have a pro look at it, or just keep putting band aids on it. Do not spend
any more money on it until you have the utility company or a pro evaluate it
so that you end up getting it fixed and fixed right.

Steve

Michael Dobony wrote:

In super insulated homes you do NOT put a vapor barrier in the
ceiling. The moisture needs an outlet and that is through the
ceiling. If you do put a vapor barrier in the ceiling you will get
moldy ceilings. You need to increase the ventilation in the attic.

I thought they used air-air heat exchangers for this.

"Bob F" wrote in message
...
hr(bob) wrote:
By the way, what you call Tuck
tape is commonly called DUCT Tape as it is used (supposedly) to seal
seams in heating/cooling air ducts.

Where I live, standard "Duct Tape" is NOT approved for ducts. It just
doesn't last.


TUCK tape - red tape used to seal holes, etc in vapour barrier, etc. Feels
like packing tape... very thin plastic.

DUCT tape - this is FOIL tape, made of METAL that is used on ducts to seal
leaks and joints.

DUCK tape - grey cloth tape, used in wet applications like sealing a hole in
a tarp.

On Jan 20, 5:26*pm, "HeyBub" wrote:
Iowna Uass wrote:
Hi,

I have what may or may not be an issue with frost in my attic.

First a little background....

I have a bungalow built in the 50's that has a gable style roof.
The home has plasterboard walls with what appears to be kraft paper
for a vapor barrier.
Original insulation is in the rafters (sawdust) as well as fiberglass
bats on top (R12).
2 x 4 construction, as well as 2 x 4 for the rafters.
The roof has 10 inch by 30 inch vents on the gables, as well as a few
vents about 2 feet from the peak. The peak vents appear to be added
at a later date. All vents have screening on them to keep out bugs
and critters.
I'm currently doing a bathroom reno, gutted to the studs, replaced the
sawdust with R12 fiberglass, installed vapor barrier with acoustic
sealant around the top plates of the walls.

Three walls are drywalled as well as the roof. The bathroom vent has
rigid metal pipe, insulated and sealed with tuck tape. The vent
housing was also sealed with tuck tape and gaps around the housing
have been sealed with expanding foam.

The lone wall without drywall is the tub alcove. That will be covered
with durock, but I had to install the tub before I could do that.

Here is where my problem begins....

I was installing the supply pipes for the tub and I noticed a wet spot
between the studs on the open wall. At first, I thought a pipe may be
leaking, but on further inspection, I saw a leak working it's way
through the acoustic sealant where the vapor barrier was starting to
lift.
I thought to myself, holy crap, my roof is leaking.... So I went to
where my attic hatch is (not in the bathroom), popped it open and
noticed that the underside of the roof had a light layer of frost
which was melting and falling onto the insulation.

The weather has warmed up here considerably for January and recently
rose from a -25 C high to around 0 C. There was no wind on the day
that this happened and the leak has now dried up on it's own. The
time frame for all of this was about 5 days.

I checked the attic last night and there is still frost on the
underside of the roof, but the melting has stopped, and no new frost
has formed.
I suspect that this may be normal for this type of house and I
probably wouldn't have a leak if the wall covering was in place, and
I don't see any signs of roof leakage anywhere else in the home. I've
been in the house for 9 years.

I'm thinking I may need to upgrade the venting in the attic. The
front of the house has a oversize eave that is stucco'd. This is
common on all the houses of my style in this neighborhood. This eave
does not have venting and I suspect the gable vents and newer roof
aren't doing the job.
Any opinions on how to handle this? Perhaps I'm being paranoid and I
should just leave things for now.

Yup. Insufficient attic ventilation would be my guess.

Rule of thumb: You can't have too much soffit venting.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Minimum attic venting for our climate here, which sounds similar, is
0.3 percent of the floor area arranged to provide cross ventilation.

In other words a minimum of 3 sq feet of ventilation per 1000 sq feet
of attic floor area.
We added much more than that and check at least a couple of times
annually.

Frost, melting and the consequent dampness could be serious. Rotten
roofing, damp ineffective insulation, possible mould.

Franky we would consider such a problem affecting the basic house
structure and possibly the healthiness of the air within the
structure, more important than refurbishing the bathroom!

Suggest you temporarily add some power ventilation ASAP. Then
investigate permanent solution; also why and where is the moisture
that is causing the frost coming from. Sounds serious! And new roofs
are expensive.

BTW some houses have a continuous ventilation strip along each soffit,
also if necessary end gable vents and/or ridge vents. We've added
extra vents along our soffits and also have gable end vents. That
'kraft paper' vapour barrier doesn't sound too effective either! Have
read that at a pinch the use of impermeable 'oil paint' on the
ceilings can provide something of a vapour barrier.

On Jan 20, 6:59*pm, Michael Dobony wrote:
On Wed, 20 Jan 2010 15:22:16 -0600, Iowna Uass wrote:
"hr(bob) " wrote in message
....
On Jan 20, 12:52 pm, "Iowna Uass" wrote:
Hi,

I have what may or may not be an issue with frost in my attic.

First a little background....

I have a bungalo built in the 50's that has a gable style roof.
The home has plasterboard walls with what appears to be kraft paper for a
vapor barrier.
Original insulation is in the rafters (sawdust) as well as fiberglass bats
on top (R12).
2 x 4 construction, as well as 2 x 4 for the rafters.
The roof has 10 inch by 30 inch vents on the gables, as well as a few
vents
about 2 feet from the peak. The peak vents appear to be added at a later
date. All vents have screening on them to keep out bugs and critters.

I'm currently doing a bathroom reno, gutted to the studs, replaced the
sawdust with R12 fiberglass, installed vapor barrier with acoustic sealant
around the top plates of the walls.

Three walls are drywalled as well as the roof. The bathroom vent has rigid
metal pipe, insulated and sealed with tuck tape. The vent housing was also
sealed with tuck tape and gaps around the housing have been sealed with
expanding foam.

The lone wall without drywall is the tub alcove. That will be covered with
durock, but I had to install the tub before I could do that.

Here is where my problem begins....

I was installing the supply pipes for the tub and I noticed a wet spot
between the studs on the open wall. At first, I thought a pipe may be
leaking, but on further inspection, I saw a leak working it's way through
the acoustic sealant where the vapor barrier was starting to lift.

I thought to myself, holy crap, my roof is leaking.... So I went to where
my
attic hatch is (not in the bathroom), popped it open and noticed that the
underside of the roof had a light layer of frost which was melting and
falling onto the insulation.

The weather has warmed up here considerably for January and recently rose
from a -25 C high to around 0 C. There was no wind on the day that this
happened and the leak has now dried up on it's own. The time frame for all
of this was about 5 days.

I checked the attic last night and there is still frost on the underside
of
the roof, but the melting has stopped, and no new frost has formed.

I suspect that this may be normal for this type of house and I probably
wouldn't have a leak if the wall covering was in place, and I don't see
any
signs of roof leakage anywhere else in the home. I've been in the house
for
9 years.

I'm thinking I may need to upgrade the venting in the attic. The front of
the house has a oversize eave that is stucco'd. This is common on all the
houses of my style in this neighborhood. This eave does not have venting
and
I suspect the gable vents and newer roof aren't doing the job.

Any opinions on how to handle this? Perhaps I'm being paranoid and I
should
just leave things for now.

It sounds as though there is moisture bulding up in the attic and that
it is not adequately vented to the outside. *Is there a vapor barrier
under the insulation in the attic to keep the moisture from the house
from getting into the attic? *If not, some sort of moisture barrier
paint (someone else may know if this exists) on all the ceilings may
reduce moisture getting into the attic. *Otherwise, you will need to
increase the ventilation in the attic. *By the way, what you call Tuck
tape is commonly called DUCT Tape as it is used (supposedly) to seal
seams in heating/cooling air ducts. *You sound as though you are
located somewhat north of the Mason-Dixon line, maybe in Canada. *If
you don't do anything, htere is a chance that mold will form, altho if
that hasn't happened in 50 years, you may be just fine.

In super insulated homes you do NOT put a vapor barrier in the ceiling. The
moisture needs an outlet and that is through the ceiling. If you do put a
vapor barrier in the ceiling you will get moldy ceilings. You need to
increase the ventilation in the attic.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

That sounded incorrect for today's construction. So found this
explanation.

In the old days, in severe cold climates, when attics were poorly
insulated it was okay to omit a ceiling plastic vapor barrier. The
heat loss from the house warmed the attic sufficiently to allow attic
ventilation to remove moisture from the attic. Cold outside air was
brought into the attic and warmed up by the escaping heat loss giving
this air the capacity to pick up moisture. Moisture in the attic was
then picked up and vented to the exterior. The approach worked great
until we added large quantities of attic insulation. With the added
insulation the attic stayed cold and the ventilating outside air
stayed cold unable to effectively remove attic moisture. Hence the
need to reduce moisture flow into the attic and the need for a vapor
barrier.

Noticing that several operative words are; 'old days', 'omit vapour
barrier', 'vented to the exterior' and 'reduce moisture flow into the
attic and the need for a vapor barrier'.

Reading sources such as 'Canadian Frame House Construction' etc. (even
my old one covers vapour barriers and attic venting), possibly
available at library should also illustrate.
..

"Iowna Uass" wrote in message
...
Hi,

I have what may or may not be an issue with frost in my attic.

First a little background....

I have a bungalo built in the 50's that has a gable style roof.
The home has plasterboard walls with what appears to be kraft paper for a
vapor barrier.
Original insulation is in the rafters (sawdust) as well as fiberglass bats
on top (R12).
2 x 4 construction, as well as 2 x 4 for the rafters.
The roof has 10 inch by 30 inch vents on the gables, as well as a few
vents about 2 feet from the peak. The peak vents appear to be added at a
later date. All vents have screening on them to keep out bugs and
critters.

I'm currently doing a bathroom reno, gutted to the studs, replaced the
sawdust with R12 fiberglass, installed vapor barrier with acoustic sealant
around the top plates of the walls.

Three walls are drywalled as well as the roof. The bathroom vent has rigid
metal pipe, insulated and sealed with tuck tape. The vent housing was also
sealed with tuck tape and gaps around the housing have been sealed with
expanding foam.

The lone wall without drywall is the tub alcove. That will be covered with
durock, but I had to install the tub before I could do that.

Here is where my problem begins....

I was installing the supply pipes for the tub and I noticed a wet spot
between the studs on the open wall. At first, I thought a pipe may be
leaking, but on further inspection, I saw a leak working it's way through
the acoustic sealant where the vapor barrier was starting to lift.

I thought to myself, holy crap, my roof is leaking.... So I went to where
my attic hatch is (not in the bathroom), popped it open and noticed that
the underside of the roof had a light layer of frost which was melting and
falling onto the insulation.

The weather has warmed up here considerably for January and recently rose
from a -25 C high to around 0 C. There was no wind on the day that this
happened and the leak has now dried up on it's own. The time frame for all
of this was about 5 days.

I checked the attic last night and there is still frost on the underside
of the roof, but the melting has stopped, and no new frost has formed.

I suspect that this may be normal for this type of house and I probably
wouldn't have a leak if the wall covering was in place, and I don't see
any signs of roof leakage anywhere else in the home. I've been in the
house for 9 years.

I'm thinking I may need to upgrade the venting in the attic. The front of
the house has a oversize eave that is stucco'd. This is common on all the
houses of my style in this neighborhood. This eave does not have venting
and I suspect the gable vents and newer roof aren't doing the job.

Any opinions on how to handle this? Perhaps I'm being paranoid and I
should just leave things for now.



I had a friend who's a contractor look at the situation, and he informed me
that it is common for some frosting to occur in this climate, especially
when the temperature rises from -25 C to +2 C in a day.
The situation could be improved by some vents along the lower part of the
gable to increase the amount of attic area with ventilation.
He said not to panic and I would've never noticed the alleged problem if I
wasn't currently renovating the bathroom.
He also recommended that I add an extra layer of R12 to the exsiting layer
of insulation, add u-channels to the rafters where the insulation meets the
roof on the side of the house that has soffit vents to keep the insulation
away from the roof and allow breathing.\

He also said to take some pictures of the the attic and poke my head up
every few weeks and take some more. Compare the pictures to see variations
in frosting (if any).

Thanks to all who replied.


Thanks

On Wed, 20 Jan 2010 12:27:35 -0800, Steve B wrote:


"Iowna Uass" wrote in message
...
Hi,

I have what may or may not be an issue with frost in my attic.

IT IS A BIG ISSUE. MOLD. ROT. DETERIORATION OF THE LOAD BEARING MEMBERS.


First a little background....

stuff snipped ......

I'm thinking I may need to upgrade the venting in the attic. The front of
the house has a oversize eave that is stucco'd. This is common on all the
houses of my style in this neighborhood. This eave does not have venting
and I suspect the gable vents and newer roof aren't doing the job.

Any opinions on how to handle this? Perhaps I'm being paranoid and I
should just leave things for now.

I'd say vent the eaves. And have a pro come and look at it and give you a
free estimate and pick his brain to see if it is a DIY thing or a major job.
This is not a small item that I would personally leave to molder.

Steve

Great answer.

Let me recap.

Screem at the person about something you don't know what your talking
about.

Snip the part that confuses you.

Finish with, pick the brain of a professional.

In total, Another dip**** that doesn't have a clue.

There are too many here like you already.

I had a leak last week on my ceiling, went up into the attic and discovered
little piles of snow on top of the insulation under each air vent. This was
after a rare (where I live) blizzard. This is the first time this happened
since we moved in 15 years ago.

"Iowna Uass" wrote in message
...
Hi,

I have what may or may not be an issue with frost in my attic.

First a little background....

I have a bungalo built in the 50's that has a gable style roof.
The home has plasterboard walls with what appears to be kraft paper for a
vapor barrier.
Original insulation is in the rafters (sawdust) as well as fiberglass bats
on top (R12).
2 x 4 construction, as well as 2 x 4 for the rafters.
The roof has 10 inch by 30 inch vents on the gables, as well as a few
vents about 2 feet from the peak. The peak vents appear to be added at a
later date. All vents have screening on them to keep out bugs and
critters.

I'm currently doing a bathroom reno, gutted to the studs, replaced the
sawdust with R12 fiberglass, installed vapor barrier with acoustic sealant
around the top plates of the walls.

Three walls are drywalled as well as the roof. The bathroom vent has rigid
metal pipe, insulated and sealed with tuck tape. The vent housing was also
sealed with tuck tape and gaps around the housing have been sealed with
expanding foam.

The lone wall without drywall is the tub alcove. That will be covered with
durock, but I had to install the tub before I could do that.

Here is where my problem begins....

I was installing the supply pipes for the tub and I noticed a wet spot
between the studs on the open wall. At first, I thought a pipe may be
leaking, but on further inspection, I saw a leak working it's way through
the acoustic sealant where the vapor barrier was starting to lift.

I thought to myself, holy crap, my roof is leaking.... So I went to where
my attic hatch is (not in the bathroom), popped it open and noticed that
the underside of the roof had a light layer of frost which was melting and
falling onto the insulation.

The weather has warmed up here considerably for January and recently rose
from a -25 C high to around 0 C. There was no wind on the day that this
happened and the leak has now dried up on it's own. The time frame for all
of this was about 5 days.

I checked the attic last night and there is still frost on the underside
of the roof, but the melting has stopped, and no new frost has formed.

I suspect that this may be normal for this type of house and I probably
wouldn't have a leak if the wall covering was in place, and I don't see
any signs of roof leakage anywhere else in the home. I've been in the
house for 9 years.

I'm thinking I may need to upgrade the venting in the attic. The front of
the house has a oversize eave that is stucco'd. This is common on all the
houses of my style in this neighborhood. This eave does not have venting
and I suspect the gable vents and newer roof aren't doing the job.

Any opinions on how to handle this? Perhaps I'm being paranoid and I
should just leave things for now.

On Jan 20, 1:52*pm, "Iowna Uass" wrote:
Hi,

I have what may or may not be an issue with frost in my attic.

First a little background....

I have a bungalo built in the 50's that has a gable style roof.
The home has plasterboard walls with what appears to be kraft paper for a
vapor barrier.
Original insulation is in the rafters (sawdust) as well as fiberglass bats
on top (R12).
2 x 4 construction, as well as 2 x 4 for the rafters.
The roof has 10 inch by 30 inch vents on the gables, as well as a few vents
about 2 feet from the peak. The peak vents appear to be added at a later
date. All vents have screening on them to keep out bugs and critters.

I'm currently doing a bathroom reno, gutted to the studs, replaced the
sawdust with R12 fiberglass, installed vapor barrier with acoustic sealant
around the top plates of the walls.

Three walls are drywalled as well as the roof. The bathroom vent has rigid
metal pipe, insulated and sealed with tuck tape. The vent housing was also
sealed with tuck tape and gaps around the housing have been sealed with
expanding foam.

The lone wall without drywall is the tub alcove. That will be covered with
durock, but I had to install the tub before I could do that.

Here is where my problem begins....

I was installing the supply pipes for the tub and I noticed a wet spot
between the studs on the open wall. At first, I thought a pipe may be
leaking, but on further inspection, I saw a leak working it's way through
the acoustic sealant where the vapor barrier was starting to lift.

I thought to myself, holy crap, my roof is leaking.... So I went to where my
attic hatch is (not in the bathroom), popped it open and noticed that the
underside of the roof had a light layer of frost which was melting and
falling onto the insulation.

The weather has warmed up here considerably for January and recently rose
from a -25 C high to around 0 C. There was no wind on the day that this
happened and the leak has now dried up on it's own. The time frame for all
of this was about 5 days.

I checked the attic last night and there is still frost on the underside of
the roof, but the melting has stopped, and no new frost has formed.

I suspect that this may be normal for this type of house and I probably
wouldn't have a leak if the wall covering was in place, and I don't see any
signs of roof leakage anywhere else in the home. I've been in the house for
9 years.

I'm thinking I may need to upgrade the venting in the attic. The front of
the house has a oversize eave that is stucco'd. This is common on all the
houses of my style in this neighborhood. This eave does not have venting and
I suspect the gable vents and newer roof aren't doing the job.

Any opinions on how to handle this? Perhaps I'm being paranoid and I should
just leave things for now.

Got Attic Mold? Lets Talk Energy Conservation!
By Mark D. Tyrol, P.E., Battic Door Energy Conservation Products


It happens to countless homeowners around the end of the year – you
make the annual visit to your attic to collect the holiday decorations
and what do you find? Spots and blotches covering the bottom of the
roof sheathing. Worse yet – it turns out to be attic mold!


What does energy conservation have to do with mold in the attic? Well
if you take a step back and consider how the house behaves as system,
they are often directly related.


Building science experts have long been using the “house as a system”
approach to diagnose the cause and origin of building defects.


For example, ice dams. These are often caused by warm air seeping into
the attic which causes the snow and ice on the roof to melt. The water
drains to the edge of the roof (which is colder than the rest of the
roof because it is an overhang and not warmed by the attic), freezes
and creates an ice dam. As this process is repeated daily, the ice dam
grows larger. Eventually water is forced under a shingle where it can
seep into the house.


Understanding how the house behaves as a system and the various causes
and effects is necessary to diagnose most building related problems.


But how about that attic mold? How did it get there?


Mold requires chronic moisture to form and to thrive, so source(s) of
moisture must be present. Possibly the moisture came from outdoors.
The roof is newer and a quick check of the roof shows no obvious
damage or leaks.


Possibly the moisture came from indoors. During the heating season,
the interior of the house frequently has high moisture levels,
especially bathrooms and kitchens. A quick check shows that all
bathroom fans, kitchen vents, etc. are properly ducted completely
outdoors and not into the attic. The amount of insulation looks good
and the attic is well ventilated.


Don’t give up – you are almost there! Remember the house as a system?
You know that warm, moist air is in the house, but how is it getting
into the attic?


By air leaks! Air leaks are the leading source of energy loss in most
houses, and a frequent source of chronic moisture that can cause attic
mold. Most homeowners are well aware of air leaks around windows and
doors (especially old ones), but many overlook the numerous gaps
leading directly into the attic!


Have a look around the attic and you may find large gaps around
recessed lights and fans, holes where wires or pipes are installed,
even large gaps around the chimney. And don’t overlook the whole house
fan and especially the folding attic stair - a big, uninsulated hole
in your ceiling that is often overlooked!


These gaps can add up to a large hole that allows warm, moist air from
the house to flow right into the cold attic. The warm moist air
condenses on the cold roof sheathing, creating chronically damp
conditions that can lead to attic mold growth. And the energy loss –
it can be like leaving a window open all winter long!


Seal these air leaks and you stop a significant moisture source. And
just think of all the energy you can save and the cold drafts you can
stop!

Mark D. Tyrol is a Professional Engineer specializing in cause and
origin of construction defects. He developed several residential
energy conservation products including an attic stair cover and a
fireplace draftstopper. To learn more visit www.batticdoor.com

news wrote:
I had a leak last week on my ceiling, went up into the attic and
discovered little piles of snow on top of the insulation under each
air vent. This was after a rare (where I live) blizzard. This is the
first time this happened since we moved in 15 years ago.

Hang a yard sale cooking pot under each vent?