Recently I read somewhere that it's possible to add an auxiliary tank to
supply water heaters.

The purpose is, water comes from underground into a storage tank, where the
temperature of the water is raised by ordinary basement temperatures --
especially in furnace rooms.

This water then feeds water into the heating tank at a considerably higher
temperature, thereby saving energy costs.

This is common sense. Is this technology available now?

On Dec 22, 9:49�am, wrote:
On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 09:39:21 -0500, "Ray"

wrote:
Recently I read somewhere that it's possible to add an auxiliary tank to
supply water heaters.

The purpose is, water comes from underground into a storage tank, where the
temperature of the water is raised by ordinary basement temperatures -- �
especially in furnace rooms.

This water then feeds water into the heating tank at a considerably higher
temperature, thereby saving energy costs.

This is common sense. Is this technology available now?

It's called a tempering tank.

It doesn't make quite as much sense as it appears in most cases.

any uninsulated tank will do this, but you wouldnt gain much. it will
use the heat of your basement, so you have to heat the space more.

so whats the OPs situation?

hot water not hot enough? having a tankless issue with incoming too
cold water? you want endless hot water? or some other more obscure
problem?

Just get a used electric water heater tank - say 50 gallons. Then remove all
the insulation around the tank. Remove the electrical wiring.

-or-

Buy a new water tank which can be pressurized to city water pressure levels.
(I think water heater tanks are tested to 300 psi, but actual pressure would
be from 30 psi to 100 psi.)

Then connect this tank *before* your existing water heater.

This would be pointless upstairs in the winter. You would be using more
house heating to warm the tank. In an unheated basement or furnace room,
might reduce expenses? And of course in the summer, it would be a money
saver if the city water temperature is colder than your house temperature.

More savings would be with a "heat exchanger" tank and a solar water heating
system.




"Ray" wrote in message
Recently I read somewhere that it's possible to add an auxiliary tank to
supply water heaters.

The purpose is, water comes from underground into a storage tank, where
the temperature of the water is raised by ordinary basement
temperatures -- especially in furnace rooms.

This water then feeds water into the heating tank at a considerably higher
temperature, thereby saving energy costs.

This is common sense. Is this technology available now?

wrote in message
...
On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 09:39:21 -0500, "Ray"
wrote:

Recently I read somewhere that it's possible to add an auxiliary tank to
supply water heaters.

The purpose is, water comes from underground into a storage tank, where
the
temperature of the water is raised by ordinary basement temperatures --
especially in furnace rooms.

This water then feeds water into the heating tank at a considerably higher
temperature, thereby saving energy costs.

This is common sense. Is this technology available now?

It's called a tempering tank.

It doesn't make quite as much sense as it appears in most cases.


How bout if the tank is buried?

Ackshooly, two tanks:

One buried, in the winter, the other exposed in the house someplace, with a
fan perhaps, in the summer.

The Qs a What is the likely temp differential in both cases, resulting
in how much $$ savings, and what will the payback period be? And, initial
costs? Proly not cheap. Sheeit, crappy make-up tanks for compressed air are
not cheap, and it don't get much simpler than THAT!

I suspect the payback period will be substantial.

Intuitively, I agree with the statement that $$ spent on solar heating are
much better spent $$ -- and likely mostly DIY, at that -- poss. ALL diy.

But, I think the premise, at least, of the OPs suggestion is good, if not
the practicality/economics.
--
EA

"Bill" wrote in message
...
Just get a used electric water heater tank - say 50 gallons. Then remove
all the insulation around the tank. Remove the electrical wiring.

-or-

Buy a new water tank which can be pressurized to city water pressure
levels. (I think water heater tanks are tested to 300 psi, but actual
pressure would be from 30 psi to 100 psi.)

Then connect this tank *before* your existing water heater.

This would be pointless upstairs in the winter. You would be using more
house heating to warm the tank. In an unheated basement or furnace room,
might reduce expenses? And of course in the summer, it would be a money
saver if the city water temperature is colder than your house temperature.

More savings would be with a "heat exchanger" tank and a solar water
heating system.

How does a heat exchanger tank work, in both summer/winter? Configuration?

How about this, just for the summer, apropos of heat exchange:

Take a hundred feet or so of copper tubing, in a helix or some some compact
"serpentine" configuration, with a fan, on a drip pan for the condensate,
somewhere in the house, which would preheat the water, cool and dehumidify
the house?

The problems with this are finding a spot to do this, and then the fact that
relatively little water will actually be used, as there is not constant
flow. But if the above could be done cheaply enough....

Also, I would do this for both the hot AND cold water -- after all, does
anyone really need cold-cold water?

Mebbe the start of a three-line faucet: hot/cold/tepid.....
--
EA








"Ray" wrote in message
Recently I read somewhere that it's possible to add an auxiliary tank to
supply water heaters.

The purpose is, water comes from underground into a storage tank, where
the temperature of the water is raised by ordinary basement
temperatures -- especially in furnace rooms.

This water then feeds water into the heating tank at a considerably
higher temperature, thereby saving energy costs.

This is common sense. Is this technology available now?

"Ray" wrote in message
...
Recently I read somewhere that it's possible to add an auxiliary tank to
supply water heaters.

The purpose is, water comes from underground into a storage tank, where
the temperature of the water is raised by ordinary basement
temperatures -- especially in furnace rooms.

This water then feeds water into the heating tank at a considerably higher
temperature, thereby saving energy costs.

This is common sense. Is this technology available now?


Could have used this when living at 10,000 feet in Colorado mountains.
Incoming water temp in winter was 35 F and in summer 38 F. Frost line was 9
feet deep and people had lots of frozen sewer lines that were not deep
enough. WW

On Dec 22, 8:39*am, "Ray" wrote:
Recently I read somewhere that it's possible to add an auxiliary tank to
supply water heaters.

The purpose is, water comes from underground into a storage tank, where the
temperature of the water is raised by ordinary basement temperatures -- *
especially in furnace rooms.

This water then feeds water into the heating tank at a considerably higher
temperature, thereby saving energy costs.

This is common sense. Is this technology available now?

Is the technology avalaible? Having a rooftop black tank and a mini
water heater is standard affair in Mexico and other countries that
dont have alot of extra cash. I took an old water heater stripped the
insuation and use it to temper incomming water, it goes up by maybe 6f
in a day. But you will need a tray under it to drain when it swets in
summer if your basement gets humid. Maybe a cheap uninsulated Well
tank will work. In summer you will save a bit.

"ransley" wrote in message
...
On Dec 22, 8:39 am, "Ray" wrote:
Recently I read somewhere that it's possible to add an auxiliary tank to
supply water heaters.

The purpose is, water comes from underground into a storage tank, where
the
temperature of the water is raised by ordinary basement temperatures --
especially in furnace rooms.

This water then feeds water into the heating tank at a considerably higher
temperature, thereby saving energy costs.

This is common sense. Is this technology available now?

Is the technology avalaible? Having a rooftop black tank and a mini
water heater is standard affair in Mexico and other countries that
dont have alot of extra cash. I took an old water heater stripped the
insuation and use it to temper incomming water, it goes up by maybe 6f
in a day. But you will need a tray under it to drain when it swets in
summer if your basement gets humid. Maybe a cheap uninsulated Well
tank will work. In summer you will save a bit.

Keep in mind water would freeze further up north. For solar water heating
systems, they use a closed loop of antifreeze to go to a heat exchanger
water heater. Keeps the antifreeze solution in the lines and on the roof
separate from the hot water which you might use for cooking, etc.!

On Dec 22, 3:22�pm, "Bill" wrote:
"ransley" wrote in message

...
On Dec 22, 8:39 am, "Ray" wrote:

Recently I read somewhere that it's possible to add an auxiliary tank to
supply water heaters.

The purpose is, water comes from underground into a storage tank, where
the
temperature of the water is raised by ordinary basement temperatures --
especially in furnace rooms.

This water then feeds water into the heating tank at a considerably higher
temperature, thereby saving energy costs.

This is common sense. Is this technology available now?

Is the technology avalaible? Having a rooftop black tank and a mini
water heater is standard affair in Mexico and other countries that
dont have alot of extra cash. I took an old water heater stripped the
insuation and use it to temper incomming water, it goes up by maybe 6f
in a day. But you will need a tray under it to drain when it swets in
summer if your basement gets humid. Maybe a cheap uninsulated Well
tank will work. In summer you will save a bit.

Keep in mind water would freeze further up north. For solar water heating
systems, they use a closed loop of antifreeze to go to a heat exchanger
water heater. Keeps the antifreeze solution in the lines and on the roof
separate from the hot water which you might use for cooking, etc.!

heat conduction is largely a matter of exposure area which is why
collectors tend to be large and thin

On Dec 22, 8:49*am, wrote:
On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 09:39:21 -0500, "Ray"

wrote:
Recently I read somewhere that it's possible to add an auxiliary tank to
supply water heaters.

The purpose is, water comes from underground into a storage tank, where the
temperature of the water is raised by ordinary basement temperatures -- *
especially in furnace rooms.

This water then feeds water into the heating tank at a considerably higher
temperature, thereby saving energy costs.

This is common sense. Is this technology available now?

It's called a tempering tank.

It doesn't make quite as much sense as it appears in most cases.

It does make alot of sense --- but mostly if you also heat your house
with a wood burning stove as I do... My old electric 40 gal. water
heater finally went belly up after about 20 years of service. I could
have spent some time and money to fix it but I had been planning to
try a tempering tank system for quite some time. This seemed to be
the time to try it. I did all the work myself so I saved a bunch on
installation cost. I installed a new 40 gal electric water heater and
stripped the old heater of insulation and wiring and piped it in ahead
of the new water heater. I set it right next to my wood burning stove
and put a recirc loop around the top of the stove and smoke stack pipe
using the top and bottom element ports of the tempering water tank.
It does take awhile of good steady heating of the wood stove to get
the temp of the water up in the tempering tank. But by just feeling
the copper pipe of the incoming cold water to the tempering tank --
roughly 55 degrees F. -- and the pipe of the tempered water going to
the new water heater -- roughly 110 to 120 degrees F.-- we get enough
benefit to get a couple loads of clothes washed and a shower or two
each morning before the tempered water cools appreciably. I figure we
save approximately 150+ kwh / month or about $15+ / month on
electricity (6 - 7 months of wood heating in our northern climate).
Payback time of approximately a year for materials not counting the
cost of the new heater which I needed anyway..
Steve

On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 17:22:21 -0800 (PST), Steve
wrote:

On Dec 22, 8:49*am, wrote:
On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 09:39:21 -0500, "Ray"

wrote:
Recently I read somewhere that it's possible to add an auxiliary tank to
supply water heaters.

The purpose is, water comes from underground into a storage tank, where the
temperature of the water is raised by ordinary basement temperatures -- *
especially in furnace rooms.

This water then feeds water into the heating tank at a considerably higher
temperature, thereby saving energy costs.

This is common sense. Is this technology available now?

It's called a tempering tank.

It doesn't make quite as much sense as it appears in most cases.

It does make alot of sense --- but mostly if you also heat your house
with a wood burning stove as I do... My old electric 40 gal. water
heater finally went belly up after about 20 years of service. I could
have spent some time and money to fix it but I had been planning to
try a tempering tank system for quite some time. This seemed to be
the time to try it. I did all the work myself so I saved a bunch on
installation cost. I installed a new 40 gal electric water heater and
stripped the old heater of insulation and wiring and piped it in ahead
of the new water heater. I set it right next to my wood burning stove
and put a recirc loop around the top of the stove and smoke stack pipe
using the top and bottom element ports of the tempering water tank.
It does take awhile of good steady heating of the wood stove to get
the temp of the water up in the tempering tank. But by just feeling
the copper pipe of the incoming cold water to the tempering tank --
roughly 55 degrees F. -- and the pipe of the tempered water going to
the new water heater -- roughly 110 to 120 degrees F.-- we get enough
benefit to get a couple loads of clothes washed and a shower or two
each morning before the tempered water cools appreciably. I figure we
save approximately 150+ kwh / month or about $15+ / month on
electricity (6 - 7 months of wood heating in our northern climate).
Payback time of approximately a year for materials not counting the
cost of the new heater which I needed anyway..
Steve

The heat that goes into the tempering tank is heat that does not go
into the living space. There is no such thing as perpetual motion.

On Dec 23, 5:21*am, wrote:
On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 17:22:21 -0800 (PST), Steve
wrote:





On Dec 22, 8:49*am, wrote:
On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 09:39:21 -0500, "Ray"

wrote:
Recently I read somewhere that it's possible to add an auxiliary tank to
supply water heaters.

The purpose is, water comes from underground into a storage tank, where the
temperature of the water is raised by ordinary basement temperatures -- *
especially in furnace rooms.

This water then feeds water into the heating tank at a considerably higher
temperature, thereby saving energy costs.

This is common sense. Is this technology available now?

It's called a tempering tank.

It doesn't make quite as much sense as it appears in most cases.

It does make alot of sense --- but mostly if you also heat your house
with a wood burning stove as I do... *My old electric 40 gal. water
heater finally went belly up after about 20 years of service. *I could
have spent some time and money to fix it but I had been planning to
try a tempering tank system for quite some time. *This seemed to be
the time to try it. *I did all the work myself so I saved a bunch on
installation cost. *I installed a new 40 gal electric water heater and
stripped the old heater of insulation and wiring and piped it in ahead
of the new water heater. *I set it right next to my wood burning stove
and put a recirc loop around the top of the stove and smoke stack pipe
using the top and bottom element ports of the tempering water tank.
It does take awhile of good steady heating of the wood stove to get
the temp of the water up in the tempering tank. *But by just feeling
the copper pipe of the incoming cold water to the tempering tank --
roughly 55 degrees F. -- and the pipe of the tempered water going to
the new water heater -- roughly 110 to 120 degrees F.-- we get enough
benefit to get a couple loads of clothes washed and a shower or two
each morning before the tempered water cools appreciably. *I figure we
save approximately 150+ kwh / month or about $15+ / month on
electricity (6 - 7 months of wood heating in our northern climate).
Payback time of approximately a year for materials not counting the
cost of the new heater which I needed anyway..
Steve

The heat that goes into the tempering tank is heat that does not go
into the living space. There is no such thing as perpetual motion.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

In my case, I have alot of wood heat in the basement area of the
tempering tank to spare... I don't notice that I use any more wood
now than I used before the tempering tank. My basement area is
certainly not any cooler. If I do use any more wood than before, it is
insignificant.

On Dec 23, 11:25*am, wrote:
On Wed, 23 Dec 2009 09:04:05 -0800 (PST), Steve
wrote:





On Dec 23, 5:21*am, wrote:
On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 17:22:21 -0800 (PST), Steve
wrote:

On Dec 22, 8:49*am, wrote:
On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 09:39:21 -0500, "Ray"

wrote:
Recently I read somewhere that it's possible to add an auxiliary tank to
supply water heaters.

The purpose is, water comes from underground into a storage tank, where the
temperature of the water is raised by ordinary basement temperatures -- *
especially in furnace rooms.

This water then feeds water into the heating tank at a considerably higher
temperature, thereby saving energy costs.

This is common sense. Is this technology available now?

It's called a tempering tank.

It doesn't make quite as much sense as it appears in most cases.

It does make alot of sense --- but mostly if you also heat your house
with a wood burning stove as I do... *My old electric 40 gal. water
heater finally went belly up after about 20 years of service. *I could
have spent some time and money to fix it but I had been planning to
try a tempering tank system for quite some time. *This seemed to be
the time to try it. *I did all the work myself so I saved a bunch on
installation cost. *I installed a new 40 gal electric water heater and
stripped the old heater of insulation and wiring and piped it in ahead
of the new water heater. *I set it right next to my wood burning stove
and put a recirc loop around the top of the stove and smoke stack pipe
using the top and bottom element ports of the tempering water tank.
It does take awhile of good steady heating of the wood stove to get
the temp of the water up in the tempering tank. *But by just feeling
the copper pipe of the incoming cold water to the tempering tank --
roughly 55 degrees F. -- and the pipe of the tempered water going to
the new water heater -- roughly 110 to 120 degrees F.-- we get enough
benefit to get a couple loads of clothes washed and a shower or two
each morning before the tempered water cools appreciably. *I figure we
save approximately 150+ kwh / month or about $15+ / month on
electricity (6 - 7 months of wood heating in our northern climate).
Payback time of approximately a year for materials not counting the
cost of the new heater which I needed anyway..
Steve

The heat that goes into the tempering tank is heat that does not go
into the living space. There is no such thing as perpetual motion.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

In my case, I have alot of wood heat in the basement area of the
tempering tank to spare... *I don't notice that I use any more wood
now than I used before the tempering tank. *My basement area is
certainly not any cooler. If I do use any more wood than before, it is
insignificant.

That doesn't strike me as a very scientific or precise evaluation,
especially since your claim is that you have achieved something akin
to perpetual motion or cold fusion.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I suppose I could have really detailed alot of thermodynamic b.s. and
made it look more scientific or precise. I guess I'm happy with it
and that's all that really counts.

On Dec 23, 1:04*pm, wrote:
On Wed, 23 Dec 2009 09:56:56 -0800 (PST), Steve
wrote:





On Dec 23, 11:25*am, wrote:
On Wed, 23 Dec 2009 09:04:05 -0800 (PST), Steve
wrote:

On Dec 23, 5:21*am, wrote:
On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 17:22:21 -0800 (PST), Steve
wrote:

On Dec 22, 8:49*am, wrote:
On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 09:39:21 -0500, "Ray"

wrote:
Recently I read somewhere that it's possible to add an auxiliary tank to
supply water heaters.

The purpose is, water comes from underground into a storage tank, where the
temperature of the water is raised by ordinary basement temperatures -- *
especially in furnace rooms.

This water then feeds water into the heating tank at a considerably higher
temperature, thereby saving energy costs.

This is common sense. Is this technology available now?

It's called a tempering tank.

It doesn't make quite as much sense as it appears in most cases.

It does make alot of sense --- but mostly if you also heat your house
with a wood burning stove as I do... *My old electric 40 gal. water
heater finally went belly up after about 20 years of service. *I could
have spent some time and money to fix it but I had been planning to
try a tempering tank system for quite some time. *This seemed to be
the time to try it. *I did all the work myself so I saved a bunch on
installation cost. *I installed a new 40 gal electric water heater and
stripped the old heater of insulation and wiring and piped it in ahead
of the new water heater. *I set it right next to my wood burning stove
and put a recirc loop around the top of the stove and smoke stack pipe
using the top and bottom element ports of the tempering water tank..
It does take awhile of good steady heating of the wood stove to get
the temp of the water up in the tempering tank. *But by just feeling
the copper pipe of the incoming cold water to the tempering tank --
roughly 55 degrees F. -- and the pipe of the tempered water going to
the new water heater -- roughly 110 to 120 degrees F.-- we get enough
benefit to get a couple loads of clothes washed and a shower or two
each morning before the tempered water cools appreciably. *I figure we
save approximately 150+ kwh / month or about $15+ / month on
electricity (6 - 7 months of wood heating in our northern climate)..
Payback time of approximately a year for materials not counting the
cost of the new heater which I needed anyway..
Steve

The heat that goes into the tempering tank is heat that does not go
into the living space. There is no such thing as perpetual motion.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

In my case, I have alot of wood heat in the basement area of the
tempering tank to spare... *I don't notice that I use any more wood
now than I used before the tempering tank. *My basement area is
certainly not any cooler. If I do use any more wood than before, it is
insignificant.

That doesn't strike me as a very scientific or precise evaluation,
especially since your claim is that you have achieved something akin
to perpetual motion or cold fusion.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I suppose I could have really detailed alot of thermodynamic b.s. and
made it look more scientific or precise. *I guess I'm happy with it
and that's all that really counts.

As long as you are happy.

I absolutely love my anti-gravity machine, too.

I agree with the thrust of your argument. There is no free lunch.
However he did say that he wrapped pipe around the stack from the wood
stove. If so, and depending on how it's done, he's likely recovering
some heat that would have gone wasted up the stack and outside.
However the part of the heat capturing pipe above the stove is most
definitely taking heat that otherwise would have heated the house.
So, some of the heat going into the tank is heat that is otherwise
wasted. The rest just results in having to burn more wood to achieve
the same house temp, meaning he's substituted one fuel for another,
which could be a good thing too, depending on the relative costs.

On Dec 23, 2:15*pm, wrote:
On Dec 23, 1:04*pm, wrote:





On Wed, 23 Dec 2009 09:56:56 -0800 (PST), Steve
wrote:

On Dec 23, 11:25*am, wrote:
On Wed, 23 Dec 2009 09:04:05 -0800 (PST), Steve
wrote:

On Dec 23, 5:21*am, wrote:
On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 17:22:21 -0800 (PST), Steve
wrote:

On Dec 22, 8:49*am, wrote:
On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 09:39:21 -0500, "Ray"

wrote:
Recently I read somewhere that it's possible to add an auxiliary tank to
supply water heaters.

The purpose is, water comes from underground into a storage tank, where the
temperature of the water is raised by ordinary basement temperatures -- *
especially in furnace rooms.

This water then feeds water into the heating tank at a considerably higher
temperature, thereby saving energy costs.

This is common sense. Is this technology available now?

It's called a tempering tank.

It doesn't make quite as much sense as it appears in most cases.

It does make alot of sense --- but mostly if you also heat your house
with a wood burning stove as I do... *My old electric 40 gal. water
heater finally went belly up after about 20 years of service. *I could
have spent some time and money to fix it but I had been planning to
try a tempering tank system for quite some time. *This seemed to be
the time to try it. *I did all the work myself so I saved a bunch on
installation cost. *I installed a new 40 gal electric water heater and
stripped the old heater of insulation and wiring and piped it in ahead
of the new water heater. *I set it right next to my wood burning stove
and put a recirc loop around the top of the stove and smoke stack pipe
using the top and bottom element ports of the tempering water tank.
It does take awhile of good steady heating of the wood stove to get
the temp of the water up in the tempering tank. *But by just feeling
the copper pipe of the incoming cold water to the tempering tank --
roughly 55 degrees F. -- and the pipe of the tempered water going to
the new water heater -- roughly 110 to 120 degrees F.-- we get enough
benefit to get a couple loads of clothes washed and a shower or two
each morning before the tempered water cools appreciably. *I figure we
save approximately 150+ kwh / month or about $15+ / month on
electricity (6 - 7 months of wood heating in our northern climate).
Payback time of approximately a year for materials not counting the
cost of the new heater which I needed anyway..
Steve

The heat that goes into the tempering tank is heat that does not go
into the living space. There is no such thing as perpetual motion..- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

In my case, I have alot of wood heat in the basement area of the
tempering tank to spare... *I don't notice that I use any more wood
now than I used before the tempering tank. *My basement area is
certainly not any cooler. If I do use any more wood than before, it is
insignificant.

That doesn't strike me as a very scientific or precise evaluation,
especially since your claim is that you have achieved something akin
to perpetual motion or cold fusion.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I suppose I could have really detailed alot of thermodynamic b.s. and
made it look more scientific or precise. *I guess I'm happy with it
and that's all that really counts.

As long as you are happy.

I absolutely love my anti-gravity machine, too.

I agree with the thrust of your argument. * There is no free lunch.
However he did say that he wrapped pipe around the stack from the wood
stove. *If so, and depending on how it's done, he's likely recovering
some heat that would have gone wasted up the stack and outside.
However the part of the heat capturing pipe above the stove is most
definitely taking heat that otherwise would have heated the house.
So, some of the heat going into the tank is heat that is otherwise
wasted. * The rest just results in having to burn more wood to achieve
the same house temp, meaning he's substituted one fuel for another,
which could be a good thing too, depending on the relative costs.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I don't know about any free lunch but the wood I burn is of no extra
cost to me exept for the time and fuel it takes me to cut it. I
suppose anyone who has to buy their wood might end up costing them a
bit more in the end..

I don't mean to say this is a good proposition for everyone but it
works well for me.

Did I mention that I also have a "time machine?"

On Dec 23, 7:17�pm, Steve wrote:
On Dec 23, 2:15�pm, wrote:





On Dec 23, 1:04�pm, wrote:

On Wed, 23 Dec 2009 09:56:56 -0800 (PST), Steve
wrote:

On Dec 23, 11:25�am, wrote:
On Wed, 23 Dec 2009 09:04:05 -0800 (PST), Steve
wrote:

On Dec 23, 5:21�am, wrote:
On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 17:22:21 -0800 (PST), Steve
wrote:

On Dec 22, 8:49�am, wrote:
On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 09:39:21 -0500, "Ray"

wrote:
Recently I read somewhere that it's possible to add an auxiliary tank to
supply water heaters.

The purpose is, water comes from underground into a storage tank, where the
temperature of the water is raised by ordinary basement temperatures -- �
especially in furnace rooms.

This water then feeds water into the heating tank at a considerably higher
temperature, thereby saving energy costs.

This is common sense. Is this technology available now?

It's called a tempering tank.

It doesn't make quite as much sense as it appears in most cases.

It does make alot of sense --- but mostly if you also heat your house
with a wood burning stove as I do... �My old electric 40 gal. water
heater finally went belly up after about 20 years of service. �I could
have spent some time and money to fix it but I had been planning to
try a tempering tank system for quite some time. �This seemed to be
the time to try it. �I did all the work myself so I saved a bunch on
installation cost. �I installed a new 40 gal electric water heater and
stripped the old heater of insulation and wiring and piped it in ahead
of the new water heater. �I set it right next to my wood burning stove
and put a recirc loop around the top of the stove and smoke stack pipe
using the top and bottom element ports of the tempering water tank.
It does take awhile of good steady heating of the wood stove to get
the temp of the water up in the tempering tank. �But by just feeling
the copper pipe of the incoming cold water to the tempering tank --
roughly 55 degrees F. -- and the pipe of the tempered water going to
the new water heater -- roughly 110 to 120 degrees F.-- we get enough
benefit to get a couple loads of clothes washed and a shower or two
each morning before the tempered water cools appreciably. �I figure we
save approximately 150+ kwh / month or about $15+ / month on
electricity (6 - 7 months of wood heating in our northern climate).
Payback time of approximately a year for materials not counting the
cost of the new heater which I needed anyway..
Steve

The heat that goes into the tempering tank is heat that does not go
into the living space. There is no such thing as perpetual motion.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

In my case, I have alot of wood heat in the basement area of the
tempering tank to spare... �I don't notice that I use any more wood
now than I used before the tempering tank. �My basement area is
certainly not any cooler. If I do use any more wood than before, it is
insignificant.

That doesn't strike me as a very scientific or precise evaluation,
especially since your claim is that you have achieved something akin
to perpetual motion or cold fusion.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I suppose I could have really detailed alot of thermodynamic b.s. and
made it look more scientific or precise. �I guess I'm happy with it
and that's all that really counts.

As long as you are happy.

I absolutely love my anti-gravity machine, too.

I agree with the thrust of your argument. � There is no free lunch.
However he did say that he wrapped pipe around the stack from the wood
stove. �If so, and depending on how it's done, he's likely recovering
some heat that would have gone wasted up the stack and outside.
However the part of the heat capturing pipe above the stove is most
definitely taking heat that otherwise would have heated the house.
So, some of the heat going into the tank is heat that is otherwise
wasted. � The rest just results in having to burn more wood to achieve
the same house temp, meaning he's substituted one fuel for another,
which could be a good thing too, depending on the relative costs.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I don't know about any free lunch but the wood I burn is of no extra
cost to me exept for the time and fuel it takes me to cut it. I
suppose anyone who has to buy their wood might end up costing them a
bit more in the end..

I don't mean to say this is a good proposition for everyone but it
works well for me.

Did I mention that I also have a "time machine?"- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

A friend heated his home with wood. I asked how many hours a year it
took to cut, haul, split, stack etc.......

if he worked at a minimum wage job it would have been more cost
effective, and more convenient. everyones mileage may vary, but its
interesting.

this friend normally heated with oil.

wood actually cost more

On Dec 23, 11:07*pm, " wrote:
On Dec 23, 7:17 pm, Steve wrote:





On Dec 23, 2:15 pm, wrote:

On Dec 23, 1:04 pm, wrote:

On Wed, 23 Dec 2009 09:56:56 -0800 (PST), Steve
wrote:

On Dec 23, 11:25 am, wrote:
On Wed, 23 Dec 2009 09:04:05 -0800 (PST), Steve
wrote:

On Dec 23, 5:21 am, wrote:
On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 17:22:21 -0800 (PST), Steve
wrote:

On Dec 22, 8:49 am, wrote:
On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 09:39:21 -0500, "Ray"

wrote:
Recently I read somewhere that it's possible to add an auxiliary tank to
supply water heaters.

The purpose is, water comes from underground into a storage tank, where the
temperature of the water is raised by ordinary basement temperatures --
especially in furnace rooms.

This water then feeds water into the heating tank at a considerably higher
temperature, thereby saving energy costs.

This is common sense. Is this technology available now?

It's called a tempering tank.

It doesn't make quite as much sense as it appears in most cases.

It does make alot of sense --- but mostly if you also heat your house
with a wood burning stove as I do... My old electric 40 gal. water
heater finally went belly up after about 20 years of service.. I could
have spent some time and money to fix it but I had been planning to
try a tempering tank system for quite some time. This seemed to be
the time to try it. I did all the work myself so I saved a bunch on
installation cost. I installed a new 40 gal electric water heater and
stripped the old heater of insulation and wiring and piped it in ahead
of the new water heater. I set it right next to my wood burning stove
and put a recirc loop around the top of the stove and smoke stack pipe
using the top and bottom element ports of the tempering water tank.
It does take awhile of good steady heating of the wood stove to get
the temp of the water up in the tempering tank. But by just feeling
the copper pipe of the incoming cold water to the tempering tank --
roughly 55 degrees F. -- and the pipe of the tempered water going to
the new water heater -- roughly 110 to 120 degrees F.-- we get enough
benefit to get a couple loads of clothes washed and a shower or two
each morning before the tempered water cools appreciably. I figure we
save approximately 150+ kwh / month or about $15+ / month on
electricity (6 - 7 months of wood heating in our northern climate).
Payback time of approximately a year for materials not counting the
cost of the new heater which I needed anyway..
Steve

The heat that goes into the tempering tank is heat that does not go
into the living space. There is no such thing as perpetual motion.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

In my case, I have alot of wood heat in the basement area of the
tempering tank to spare... I don't notice that I use any more wood
now than I used before the tempering tank. My basement area is
certainly not any cooler. If I do use any more wood than before, it is
insignificant.

That doesn't strike me as a very scientific or precise evaluation,
especially since your claim is that you have achieved something akin
to perpetual motion or cold fusion.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I suppose I could have really detailed alot of thermodynamic b.s. and
made it look more scientific or precise. I guess I'm happy with it
and that's all that really counts.

As long as you are happy.

I absolutely love my anti-gravity machine, too.

I agree with the thrust of your argument. There is no free lunch.
However he did say that he wrapped pipe around the stack from the wood
stove. If so, and depending on how it's done, he's likely recovering
some heat that would have gone wasted up the stack and outside.
However the part of the heat capturing pipe above the stove is most
definitely taking heat that otherwise would have heated the house.
So, some of the heat going into the tank is heat that is otherwise
wasted. The rest just results in having to burn more wood to achieve
the same house temp, meaning he's substituted one fuel for another,
which could be a good thing too, depending on the relative costs.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I don't know about any free lunch but the wood I burn is of no extra
cost to me exept for the time and fuel it takes me to cut it. I
suppose anyone who has to buy their wood might end up costing them a
bit more in the end..

I don't mean to say this is a good proposition for everyone but it
works well for me.

Did I mention that I also have a "time machine?"- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

A friend heated his home with wood. I asked how many hours a year it
took to cut, haul, split, stack *etc.......

if he worked at a minimum wage job it would have been more cost
effective, and more convenient. everyones mileage may vary, but its
interesting.

this friend normally heated with oil.

wood actually cost more- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I know alot of people would never go to the trouble I do of cutting,
splitting, hauling, piling, storing, etc. wood that I do. But the
fact is that I also enjoy doing it and the benefit is getting great
exercise all year long along with the soothing steady heat that wood
burning heat gives to a house. Of course you have to keep feeding the
wood burning stove regularly but then it makes you get off the Lazyboy
every couple hours or so.... I actually feel lucky to be able to heat
my house comfortably with a wood burning stove (oil heat as needed)..

On Dec 24, 10:34�am, Steve wrote:
On Dec 23, 11:07�pm, " wrote:





On Dec 23, 7:17 pm, Steve wrote:

On Dec 23, 2:15 pm, wrote:

On Dec 23, 1:04 pm, wrote:

On Wed, 23 Dec 2009 09:56:56 -0800 (PST), Steve
wrote:

On Dec 23, 11:25 am, wrote:
On Wed, 23 Dec 2009 09:04:05 -0800 (PST), Steve
wrote:

On Dec 23, 5:21 am, wrote:
On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 17:22:21 -0800 (PST), Steve
wrote:

On Dec 22, 8:49 am, wrote:
On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 09:39:21 -0500, "Ray"

wrote:
Recently I read somewhere that it's possible to add an auxiliary tank to
supply water heaters.

The purpose is, water comes from underground into a storage tank, where the
temperature of the water is raised by ordinary basement temperatures --
especially in furnace rooms.

This water then feeds water into the heating tank at a considerably higher
temperature, thereby saving energy costs.

This is common sense. Is this technology available now?

It's called a tempering tank.

It doesn't make quite as much sense as it appears in most cases.

It does make alot of sense --- but mostly if you also heat your house
with a wood burning stove as I do... My old electric 40 gal. water
heater finally went belly up after about 20 years of service. I could
have spent some time and money to fix it but I had been planning to
try a tempering tank system for quite some time. This seemed to be
the time to try it. I did all the work myself so I saved a bunch on
installation cost. I installed a new 40 gal electric water heater and
stripped the old heater of insulation and wiring and piped it in ahead
of the new water heater. I set it right next to my wood burning stove
and put a recirc loop around the top of the stove and smoke stack pipe
using the top and bottom element ports of the tempering water tank.
It does take awhile of good steady heating of the wood stove to get
the temp of the water up in the tempering tank. But by just feeling
the copper pipe of the incoming cold water to the tempering tank --
roughly 55 degrees F. -- and the pipe of the tempered water going to
the new water heater -- roughly 110 to 120 degrees F.-- we get enough
benefit to get a couple loads of clothes washed and a shower or two
each morning before the tempered water cools appreciably. I figure we
save approximately 150+ kwh / month or about $15+ / month on
electricity (6 - 7 months of wood heating in our northern climate).
Payback time of approximately a year for materials not counting the
cost of the new heater which I needed anyway..
Steve

The heat that goes into the tempering tank is heat that does not go
into the living space. There is no such thing as perpetual motion.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

In my case, I have alot of wood heat in the basement area of the
tempering tank to spare... I don't notice that I use any more wood
now than I used before the tempering tank. My basement area is
certainly not any cooler. If I do use any more wood than before, it is
insignificant.

That doesn't strike me as a very scientific or precise evaluation,
especially since your claim is that you have achieved something akin
to perpetual motion or cold fusion.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I suppose I could have really detailed alot of thermodynamic b.s.. and
made it look more scientific or precise. I guess I'm happy with it
and that's all that really counts.

As long as you are happy.

I absolutely love my anti-gravity machine, too.

I agree with the thrust of your argument. There is no free lunch.
However he did say that he wrapped pipe around the stack from the wood
stove. If so, and depending on how it's done, he's likely recovering
some heat that would have gone wasted up the stack and outside.
However the part of the heat capturing pipe above the stove is most
definitely taking heat that otherwise would have heated the house.
So, some of the heat going into the tank is heat that is otherwise
wasted. The rest just results in having to burn more wood to achieve
the same house temp, meaning he's substituted one fuel for another,
which could be a good thing too, depending on the relative costs.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I don't know about any free lunch but the wood I burn is of no extra
cost to me exept for the time and fuel it takes me to cut it. I
suppose anyone who has to buy their wood might end up costing them a
bit more in the end..

I don't mean to say this is a good proposition for everyone but it
works well for me.

Did I mention that I also have a "time machine?"- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

A friend heated his home with wood. I asked how many hours a year it
took to cut, haul, split, stack �etc.......

if he worked at a minimum wage job it would have been more cost
effective, and more convenient. everyones mileage may vary, but its
interesting.

this friend normally heated with oil.

wood actually cost more- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I know alot of people would never go to the trouble I do of cutting,
splitting, hauling, piling, storing, etc. �wood that I do. �But the
fact is that I also enjoy doing it and the benefit is getting great
exercise all year long along with the soothing steady heat that wood
burning heat gives to a house. �Of course you have to keep feeding the
wood burning stove regularly but then it makes you get off the Lazyboy
every couple hours or so.... �I actually feel lucky to be able to heat
my house comfortably with a wood burning stove (oil heat as needed)..- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

congrats whatever floats you boat I was just pointing out its not
really free heat

replying to trader4, Sdog4127 wrote:
Right on in my opinion. This is a great solution to recover lost heat that may
otherwise go out the stack or up through the ceiling. Undoubtably more btu are
used up, but I really think the net result here is definitely benefit. Using
recycled materials helps the ROI significantly. Kudos my Friend!

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...nk-414085-.htm