On Dec 23, 11:07*pm, " wrote:
On Dec 23, 7:17 pm, Steve wrote:





On Dec 23, 2:15 pm, wrote:

On Dec 23, 1:04 pm, wrote:

On Wed, 23 Dec 2009 09:56:56 -0800 (PST), Steve
wrote:

On Dec 23, 11:25 am, wrote:
On Wed, 23 Dec 2009 09:04:05 -0800 (PST), Steve
wrote:

On Dec 23, 5:21 am, wrote:
On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 17:22:21 -0800 (PST), Steve
wrote:

On Dec 22, 8:49 am, wrote:
On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 09:39:21 -0500, "Ray"

wrote:
Recently I read somewhere that it's possible to add an auxiliary tank to
supply water heaters.

The purpose is, water comes from underground into a storage tank, where the
temperature of the water is raised by ordinary basement temperatures --
especially in furnace rooms.

This water then feeds water into the heating tank at a considerably higher
temperature, thereby saving energy costs.

This is common sense. Is this technology available now?

It's called a tempering tank.

It doesn't make quite as much sense as it appears in most cases.

It does make alot of sense --- but mostly if you also heat your house
with a wood burning stove as I do... My old electric 40 gal. water
heater finally went belly up after about 20 years of service.. I could
have spent some time and money to fix it but I had been planning to
try a tempering tank system for quite some time. This seemed to be
the time to try it. I did all the work myself so I saved a bunch on
installation cost. I installed a new 40 gal electric water heater and
stripped the old heater of insulation and wiring and piped it in ahead
of the new water heater. I set it right next to my wood burning stove
and put a recirc loop around the top of the stove and smoke stack pipe
using the top and bottom element ports of the tempering water tank.
It does take awhile of good steady heating of the wood stove to get
the temp of the water up in the tempering tank. But by just feeling
the copper pipe of the incoming cold water to the tempering tank --
roughly 55 degrees F. -- and the pipe of the tempered water going to
the new water heater -- roughly 110 to 120 degrees F.-- we get enough
benefit to get a couple loads of clothes washed and a shower or two
each morning before the tempered water cools appreciably. I figure we
save approximately 150+ kwh / month or about $15+ / month on
electricity (6 - 7 months of wood heating in our northern climate).
Payback time of approximately a year for materials not counting the
cost of the new heater which I needed anyway..
Steve

The heat that goes into the tempering tank is heat that does not go
into the living space. There is no such thing as perpetual motion.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

In my case, I have alot of wood heat in the basement area of the
tempering tank to spare... I don't notice that I use any more wood
now than I used before the tempering tank. My basement area is
certainly not any cooler. If I do use any more wood than before, it is
insignificant.

That doesn't strike me as a very scientific or precise evaluation,
especially since your claim is that you have achieved something akin
to perpetual motion or cold fusion.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I suppose I could have really detailed alot of thermodynamic b.s. and
made it look more scientific or precise. I guess I'm happy with it
and that's all that really counts.

As long as you are happy.

I absolutely love my anti-gravity machine, too.

I agree with the thrust of your argument. There is no free lunch.
However he did say that he wrapped pipe around the stack from the wood
stove. If so, and depending on how it's done, he's likely recovering
some heat that would have gone wasted up the stack and outside.
However the part of the heat capturing pipe above the stove is most
definitely taking heat that otherwise would have heated the house.
So, some of the heat going into the tank is heat that is otherwise
wasted. The rest just results in having to burn more wood to achieve
the same house temp, meaning he's substituted one fuel for another,
which could be a good thing too, depending on the relative costs.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I don't know about any free lunch but the wood I burn is of no extra
cost to me exept for the time and fuel it takes me to cut it. I
suppose anyone who has to buy their wood might end up costing them a
bit more in the end..

I don't mean to say this is a good proposition for everyone but it
works well for me.

Did I mention that I also have a "time machine?"- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

A friend heated his home with wood. I asked how many hours a year it
took to cut, haul, split, stack *etc.......

if he worked at a minimum wage job it would have been more cost
effective, and more convenient. everyones mileage may vary, but its
interesting.

this friend normally heated with oil.

wood actually cost more- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I know alot of people would never go to the trouble I do of cutting,
splitting, hauling, piling, storing, etc. wood that I do. But the
fact is that I also enjoy doing it and the benefit is getting great
exercise all year long along with the soothing steady heat that wood
burning heat gives to a house. Of course you have to keep feeding the
wood burning stove regularly but then it makes you get off the Lazyboy
every couple hours or so.... I actually feel lucky to be able to heat
my house comfortably with a wood burning stove (oil heat as needed)..