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#1
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On "Smart" power meters
"[WASHINGTON] Millions of households across America are taking a first step
into the world of the "smart grid," as their power companies install meters that can tell them how much electricity they are using hour by hour - and sometimes, appliance by appliance. But not everyone is happy about it." http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/14/us...ef=instapundit |
#2
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On "Smart" power meters
On Dec 15, 10:31*am, "HeyBub" wrote:
"[WASHINGTON] Millions of households across America are taking a first step into the world of the "smart grid," as their power companies install meters that can tell them how much electricity they are using hour by hour - and sometimes, appliance by appliance. But not everyone is happy about it." http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/14/us...ef=instapundit Seems to me to be similar to the mystery pricing adopted by the big oil companies. No one has any really clear reason why gas prices go up 20 cents or more in one day and down 10 cents the next. The oil companies say the prices are set by traders in the market (who don't even own the product). Another case of pointing the finger at the phantom world of financial derivatives? Joe |
#3
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On "Smart" power meters
HeyBub wrote:
"[WASHINGTON] Millions of households across America are taking a first step into the world of the "smart grid," as their power companies install meters that can tell them how much electricity they are using hour by hour - and sometimes, appliance by appliance. But not everyone is happy about it." http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/14/us...ef=instapundit I see a way for the government to control you through taxing your energy usage based on the time of day. Or, law enforcement seeing your power usage and deciding that you must be doing something illegal like growing pot in your basement. It's all about control, I knew it when BeeHO started yapping about smart grid technology. Control the energy supply, control access to health care, control the flow of information (kill conservative talk radio) which will lead to control of the citizenry which will turn them into subjects. Hell people, just give up now! TDD |
#4
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On "Smart" power meters
The Daring Dufas wrote:
HeyBub wrote: "[WASHINGTON] Millions of households across America are taking a first step into the world of the "smart grid," as their power companies install meters that can tell them how much electricity they are using hour by hour - and sometimes, appliance by appliance. But not everyone is happy about it." http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/14/us...ef=instapundit I see a way for the government to control you through taxing your energy usage based on the time of day. Or, law enforcement seeing your power usage and deciding that you must be doing something illegal like growing pot in your basement. It's all about control, I knew it when BeeHO started yapping about smart grid technology. Control the energy supply, control access to health care, control the flow of information (kill conservative talk radio) which will lead to control of the citizenry which will turn them into subjects. Hell people, just give up now! Another FOX "news" viewer? |
#5
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On "Smart" power meters
Bob F wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote: HeyBub wrote: "[WASHINGTON] Millions of households across America are taking a first step into the world of the "smart grid," as their power companies install meters that can tell them how much electricity they are using hour by hour - and sometimes, appliance by appliance. But not everyone is happy about it." http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/14/us...ef=instapundit I see a way for the government to control you through taxing your energy usage based on the time of day. Or, law enforcement seeing your power usage and deciding that you must be doing something illegal like growing pot in your basement. It's all about control, I knew it when BeeHO started yapping about smart grid technology. Control the energy supply, control access to health care, control the flow of information (kill conservative talk radio) which will lead to control of the citizenry which will turn them into subjects. Hell people, just give up now! Another FOX "news" viewer? The article is from the New York Times. If you mean these comments, he can't be a Fox viewer because Fox does not counsel 'giving up.' In fact the network's motto is "Never give up! Never surrender!" I stayed up one night and saw their "sign-off." It went something like this (paraphrasing): "Just there the barbarians huddle, sheer terror gripping tight their hearts with icy fingers. Knowing full well the horrors they faced at the hands of 300, they stare now across the plains at TEN THOUSAND Spartans commanding THIRTY THOUSAND free Greeks! Today we rescue a world from mysticism and tyranny and usher in future brighter than anything we can imagine!" Or maybe it was the end of a DVD. I forget. |
#6
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On "Smart" power meters
HeyBub wrote:
Bob F wrote: The Daring Dufas wrote: HeyBub wrote: "[WASHINGTON] Millions of households across America are taking a first step into the world of the "smart grid," as their power companies install meters that can tell them how much electricity they are using hour by hour - and sometimes, appliance by appliance. But not everyone is happy about it." http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/14/us...ef=instapundit I see a way for the government to control you through taxing your energy usage based on the time of day. Or, law enforcement seeing your power usage and deciding that you must be doing something illegal like growing pot in your basement. It's all about control, I knew it when BeeHO started yapping about smart grid technology. Control the energy supply, control access to health care, control the flow of information (kill conservative talk radio) which will lead to control of the citizenry which will turn them into subjects. Hell people, just give up now! Another FOX "news" viewer? The article is from the New York Times. If you mean these comments, he can't be a Fox viewer because Fox does not counsel 'giving up.' In fact the network's motto is "Never give up! Never surrender!" They must be fans of the Tim Allen movie "Galaxy Quest". *snicker* I stayed up one night and saw their "sign-off." It went something like this (paraphrasing): "Just there the barbarians huddle, sheer terror gripping tight their hearts with icy fingers. Knowing full well the horrors they faced at the hands of 300, they stare now across the plains at TEN THOUSAND Spartans commanding THIRTY THOUSAND free Greeks! Today we rescue a world from mysticism and tyranny and usher in future brighter than anything we can imagine!" Or maybe it was the end of a DVD. I forget. You do realize the "give up" remark was in jest? TDD |
#7
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On "Smart" power meters
Bob F wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote: HeyBub wrote: "[WASHINGTON] Millions of households across America are taking a first step into the world of the "smart grid," as their power companies install meters that can tell them how much electricity they are using hour by hour - and sometimes, appliance by appliance. But not everyone is happy about it." http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/14/us...ef=instapundit I see a way for the government to control you through taxing your energy usage based on the time of day. Or, law enforcement seeing your power usage and deciding that you must be doing something illegal like growing pot in your basement. It's all about control, I knew it when BeeHO started yapping about smart grid technology. Control the energy supply, control access to health care, control the flow of information (kill conservative talk radio) which will lead to control of the citizenry which will turn them into subjects. Hell people, just give up now! Another FOX "news" viewer? I listen to all of the news outlets when I get a chance, no favorite. Sorry, I'm not a Republican, Republicans disgust me but Democrats are special, they horrify me. TDD |
#8
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On "Smart" power meters
The Daring Dufas wrote:
Bob F wrote: The Daring Dufas wrote: HeyBub wrote: "[WASHINGTON] Millions of households across America are taking a first step into the world of the "smart grid," as their power companies install meters that can tell them how much electricity they are using hour by hour - and sometimes, appliance by appliance. But not everyone is happy about it." http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/14/us...ef=instapundit I see a way for the government to control you through taxing your energy usage based on the time of day. Or, law enforcement seeing your power usage and deciding that you must be doing something illegal like growing pot in your basement. It's all about control, I knew it when BeeHO started yapping about smart grid technology. Control the energy supply, control access to health care, control the flow of information (kill conservative talk radio) which will lead to control of the citizenry which will turn them into subjects. Hell people, just give up now! Another FOX "news" viewer? I listen to all of the news outlets when I get a chance, no favorite. I applaud your quest for ecumenism, but the following are NOT news outlets: CNN ABC CBS NBC MSNBC CNBC The History Channel Home Shopping Network or Turner Classic Movies --- Headline News is pretty newsy as is The Weather Channel. And, of course, Fox News. |
#9
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On "Smart" power meters
HeyBub wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote: Bob F wrote: The Daring Dufas wrote: HeyBub wrote: "[WASHINGTON] Millions of households across America are taking a first step into the world of the "smart grid," as their power companies install meters that can tell them how much electricity they are using hour by hour - and sometimes, appliance by appliance. But not everyone is happy about it." http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/14/us...ef=instapundit I see a way for the government to control you through taxing your energy usage based on the time of day. Or, law enforcement seeing your power usage and deciding that you must be doing something illegal like growing pot in your basement. It's all about control, I knew it when BeeHO started yapping about smart grid technology. Control the energy supply, control access to health care, control the flow of information (kill conservative talk radio) which will lead to control of the citizenry which will turn them into subjects. Hell people, just give up now! Another FOX "news" viewer? I listen to all of the news outlets when I get a chance, no favorite. I applaud your quest for ecumenism, but the following are NOT news outlets: CNN ABC CBS NBC MSNBC CNBC But they are clearly a lot closer than Fox. |
#10
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On "Smart" power meters
Both parties fail to satisfy the American people. The Reps
are doing things like Patriot Act, and the Dems are speeding us towards socialism. I wonder if any third party has a chance. Might, sometime soon. I don't feel like a vote for Reps or Dems does any good. Of course, with electronic voting, my vote may be totally irrelevant anyway. -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. "The Daring Dufas" wrote in message ... I listen to all of the news outlets when I get a chance, no favorite. Sorry, I'm not a Republican, Republicans disgust me but Democrats are special, they horrify me. TDD |
#11
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On "Smart" power meters
Stormin Mormon wrote:
Both parties fail to satisfy the American people. The Reps are doing things like Patriot Act, and the Dems are speeding us towards socialism. I wonder if any third party has a chance. Might, sometime soon. I don't feel like a vote for Reps or Dems does any good. Of course, with electronic voting, my vote may be totally irrelevant anyway. The problem with The Patriot Act in regards to Democrats is like Islamic Jihadists having nuclear weapons. The Commies will use The Patriot Act to go after political opponents much like both parties have misused The IRS to attack people they dislike. When The Patriot Act passed, I thought to myself, what on earth are Republicans thinking, they know that Democrats will wind up back in power sometime and they know damn well how such powers could be misused. No matter how much Commiecrats whine, moan and pitch tantrums about laws that take away freedom and liberty, they will gleefully abuse such powers when it suits them. Republicans can't stay out of your bedroom and Democrats can't stay out of your wallet. TDD |
#12
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On "Smart" power meters
Stormin Mormon wrote:
Both parties fail to satisfy the American people. The Reps are doing things like Patriot Act, and the Dems are speeding us towards socialism. I wonder if any third party has a chance. Might, sometime soon. I don't feel like a vote for Reps or Dems does any good. Of course, with electronic voting, my vote may be totally irrelevant anyway. The last 3rd party candidate that had a ghost of a chance was Teddy Roosevelt running on the Bull Moose party in 1912. Roosevelt got 27% of the vote, putting the Republican, Taft, in 3rd place (23%). Woodrow Wilson won with 42% of the vote. Had Roosevelt stayed out of the race, the Republican candidate - Taft - would probably have defeated Wilson.* If you're dissatisfied with the positions of the two major parties, then work from WITHIN the party of your choice to change things. Withholding your vote from the party closest to your position actually makes things worse. Suppose a number of people feel the Republican party is not conservative enough and vote for, say, the Libertarian (or simply don't vote at all). The Democratic candidate stands a better chance of winning and a number, like Wilson above, will actually win. It's clear to all but these disaffected voters that a Democrat in office is far worse than a less-than-perfect Republican. And, no, withholding your vote won't teach the party a lesson. The "purists" have been drained off, strengthing the internal power of those to whom the "purists" object. Now my first choice for president didn't win last time. But, since I wasn't on the ballot, I sort of expected that. So what I did was vote for the major party candidate CLOSEST to me in platform, promises, and policy: Howard Taft. ---------- * Woodrow Wilson did keep us out of war and help found the forerunner of the United Nations. Had Taft won, we wouldn't have had such foolishness. Especially with Roosevelt as Secretary of War. |
#13
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On "Smart" power meters
On Tue, 15 Dec 2009 10:31:29 -0600, HeyBub wrote:
"[WASHINGTON] Millions of households across America are taking a first step into the world of the "smart grid," as their power companies install meters that can tell them how much electricity they are using hour by hour - and sometimes, appliance by appliance. But not everyone is happy about it." http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/14/us...ef=instapundit Hmm, might it be that the new meters aren't measuring the load in the same way as the meters they're replacing? I suppose I wouldn't mind a meter with an RS232 or (spit!) a USB port on it, so *I* could query consumption at any time... |
#14
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On "Smart" power meters
Jules wrote:
On Tue, 15 Dec 2009 10:31:29 -0600, HeyBub wrote: "[WASHINGTON] Millions of households across America are taking a first step into the world of the "smart grid," as their power companies install meters that can tell them how much electricity they are using hour by hour - and sometimes, appliance by appliance. But not everyone is happy about it." http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/14/us...ef=instapundit Hmm, might it be that the new meters aren't measuring the load in the same way as the meters they're replacing? I suppose I wouldn't mind a meter with an RS232 or (spit!) a USB port on it, so *I* could query consumption at any time... Not so much "control", just a blatant method of raising the prices while saying it is your fault it costs so much. Get used to doing your laundry and cooking after midnight, that is when the rates you have now will kick in, while the daytime and evening rates will skyrocket. We have these meters here but the local utility hasn't started billing according to time of day. Polititians all claimed we would save money, just like they did when they implented "free market" to the natural gas heating. It all costs much more than one could ever imagine. My electric bill is now approaching $500.00 per month, where only a few years ago we had the lowest electric rates on the continent. And that is before they implement the time of day billing. |
#15
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On "Smart" power meters
On Tue, 15 Dec 2009 13:17:54 -0500, EXT wrote:
Not so much "control", just a blatant method of raising the prices while saying it is your fault it costs so much. Get used to doing your laundry and cooking after midnight, that is when the rates you have now will kick in, while the daytime and evening rates will skyrocket. We have these meters here but the local utility hasn't started billing according to time of day. I'm pretty sure ours is a flat hourly rate, no matter what time of day - but the rate *does* change after n kWh on each bill. We've got the dryer, water heater and the baseboards all on an off-peak tariff, so those are pretty cheap no matter when they use them - but they're a bit unpredicatable as to when they work... My electric bill is now approaching $500.00 per month Ouch. I don't think ours ever goes above $200, and that's with all the electric baseboards (family of 5, couple of computers running 24x7, electric stove - plus a fridge/freezer that's over 30 years old and probably inefficient as hell...) cheers Jules |
#16
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On "Smart" power meters
On Tue, 15 Dec 2009 13:17:54 -0500, EXT wrote: Not so much "control", just a blatant method of raising the prices while saying it is your fault it costs so much. Get used to doing your laundry and cooking after midnight, that is when the rates you have now will kick in, while the daytime and evening rates will skyrocket. We have these meters here but the local utility hasn't started billing according to time of day. It's a form of rationing that the rich aren't subject to because it's chump change to them. I would rather see ration coupons wherein people could sell their unneed coupons on the open market. -- Work is the curse of the drinking class. |
#17
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On "Smart" power meters
Caesar Romano wrote:
On Tue, 15 Dec 2009 13:17:54 -0500, EXT wrote: Not so much "control", just a blatant method of raising the prices while saying it is your fault it costs so much. Get used to doing your laundry and cooking after midnight, that is when the rates you have now will kick in, while the daytime and evening rates will skyrocket. We have these meters here but the local utility hasn't started billing according to time of day. It's a form of rationing that the rich aren't subject to because it's chump change to them. I would rather see ration coupons wherein people could sell their unneed coupons on the open market. It's called "Cap-and-Trade." You're not alone in wanting it. It's the goal of the Luddites. |
#18
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On "Smart" power meters
EXT wrote:
Jules wrote: On Tue, 15 Dec 2009 10:31:29 -0600, HeyBub wrote: "[WASHINGTON] Millions of households across America are taking a first step into the world of the "smart grid," as their power companies install meters that can tell them how much electricity they are using hour by hour - and sometimes, appliance by appliance. But not everyone is happy about it." http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/14/us...ef=instapundit Hmm, might it be that the new meters aren't measuring the load in the same way as the meters they're replacing? I suppose I wouldn't mind a meter with an RS232 or (spit!) a USB port on it, so *I* could query consumption at any time... Not so much "control", just a blatant method of raising the prices while saying it is your fault it costs so much. Get used to doing your laundry and cooking after midnight, that is when the rates you have now will kick in, while the daytime and evening rates will skyrocket. We have these meters here but the local utility hasn't started billing according to time of day. We've been doing that for a long time...sign up for the plan, receive a monthly discount for limiting up to 15 minutes use of the AC and water heater during peak times. Elec. power supply goofy enough here in FL that one does not want to risk MORE outages than needed. Our power blinks off for a second or two often enough to be truly irritating...interval is about how long it takes me to get around to resetting the clocks on ALL of my labor-saving devices ) Polititians all claimed we would save money, just like they did when they implented "free market" to the natural gas heating. It all costs much more than one could ever imagine. My electric bill is now approaching $500.00 per month, where only a few years ago we had the lowest electric rates on the continent. And that is before they implement the time of day billing. |
#19
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On "Smart" power meters
On Tue, 15 Dec 2009 13:17:54 -0500, "EXT"
wrote: Not so much "control", just a blatant method of raising the prices while saying it is your fault it costs so much. Get used to doing your laundry and cooking after midnight, that is when the rates you have now will kick in, while the daytime and evening rates will skyrocket. We have these meters here but the local utility hasn't started billing according to time of day. Oh, well, I guess they "think" they have a solution to that problem: Not only the power grid is supposed to "go smart", but also the appliances connected to it. So, prepare your washing machine, dishwasher or whatever, and have it start up automatically, grid-controlled, when rates are the low - probably even automatically when rates have fallen below a threshold you have set yourself. In practice - well, I wouldn't really want my washing machine to automatically go off at 3 am when I'm trying to sleep a few rooms down the hallway, just because electricity may be cheapest at 3 am... Greetings, Nils |
#20
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On "Smart" power meters
Nils Holland wrote:
On Tue, 15 Dec 2009 13:17:54 -0500, "EXT" wrote: Not so much "control", just a blatant method of raising the prices while saying it is your fault it costs so much. Get used to doing your laundry and cooking after midnight, that is when the rates you have now will kick in, while the daytime and evening rates will skyrocket. We have these meters here but the local utility hasn't started billing according to time of day. Oh, well, I guess they "think" they have a solution to that problem: Not only the power grid is supposed to "go smart", but also the appliances connected to it. So, prepare your washing machine, dishwasher or whatever, and have it start up automatically, grid-controlled, when rates are the low - probably even automatically when rates have fallen below a threshold you have set yourself. In practice - well, I wouldn't really want my washing machine to automatically go off at 3 am when I'm trying to sleep a few rooms down the hallway, just because electricity may be cheapest at 3 am... Greetings, Nils I think it's better to have the power usage spread out. Imagine what would happen if all the laundry equipment in a community kicked on at 3:00am. Guys I know who work for the city water department tell me that when something like The Super Bowl or big college game is being broadcast, they can tell when the commercials come on because there will be a drop in water pressure. TDD |
#21
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On "Smart" power meters
On Wed, 16 Dec 2009 08:44:21 -0600, The Daring Dufas
wrote: I think it's better to have the power usage spread out. Imagine what would happen if all the laundry equipment in a community kicked on at 3:00am. Guys I know who work for the city water department tell me that when something like The Super Bowl or big college game is being broadcast, they can tell when the commercials come on because there will be a drop in water pressure. Hey, good idea, then they'll turn on all the washing machines one after another or in small groups. So when your washing machine kicks in at, say, 3:15 am, you can give your neighbor Jimmy a call that his washing machine is probably due by 4:15 or something. ;-) Personally, I find this interesting: I remember not too many years ago when you had to pay by the minute for your Internet usage or phone calls. Then flatrates became common (earlier over there in the US than here in Germany and probably Europe in general), and all of a sudden you could be on the net or call people as much / long as you wanted. With electricity, "they" seem to want to take the opposite route. While we certainly don't have "flatrate electricity" today, we do have - for the most part - fixed (throughout the day, with some exeptions) rates. I remember times when using the phone for long distance calls was postponed till after 6 or 9 pm because rates got cheaper then - that's what might happen with electricity now. Interestingly, in the telecommunication business, the move to flatrates was sold to us as "the great revolution", while in the electricity field, they're trying to sell us the smart grid stuff with its possibilities for varying rates based on time and load, as "the great revolution". Strange world. ;-) Greetings, Nils |
#22
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On "Smart" power meters
The Daring Dufas wrote:
I think it's better to have the power usage spread out. Imagine what would happen if all the laundry equipment in a community kicked on at 3:00am. Guys I know who work for the city water department tell me that when something like The Super Bowl or big college game is being broadcast, they can tell when the commercials come on because there will be a drop in water pressure. You must live in a strange place. I'm in Houston and all municipal water is gravity fed - that is, the pressure is determined by the height of the water towers. There is no way for any central location to know directly what the water pressure is anywhere in the city. |
#23
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On "Smart" power meters
On Wed, 16 Dec 2009 14:05:05 +0100, Nils Holland wrote:
Oh, well, I guess they "think" they have a solution to that problem: Not only the power grid is supposed to "go smart", but also the appliances connected to it. So, prepare your washing machine, dishwasher or whatever, and have it start up automatically, grid-controlled, when rates are the low - probably even automatically when rates have fallen below a threshold you have set yourself. I remember my parents used to have their old "electro-mechanical" washer on a timer so it'd come on at night when the rates were lower. Then they replaced it a few years ago with an expensive new all-electronic one - which would just sit there dumbly when the power came on... In practice - well, I wouldn't really want my washing machine to automatically go off at 3 am when I'm trying to sleep a few rooms down the hallway, just because electricity may be cheapest at 3 am... That is the downside, yes (my parents' one was in a utility room right at the opposite corner of the house from where they slept) cheers Jules |
#24
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On "Smart" power meters
Jules wrote:
On Wed, 16 Dec 2009 14:05:05 +0100, Nils Holland wrote: Oh, well, I guess they "think" they have a solution to that problem: Not only the power grid is supposed to "go smart", but also the appliances connected to it. So, prepare your washing machine, dishwasher or whatever, and have it start up automatically, grid-controlled, when rates are the low - probably even automatically when rates have fallen below a threshold you have set yourself. I remember my parents used to have their old "electro-mechanical" washer on a timer so it'd come on at night when the rates were lower. Then they replaced it a few years ago with an expensive new all-electronic one - which would just sit there dumbly when the power came on... I ran into that with a window A/C unit. During the summer I now leave the window unit on high, but put a timer in series with the temperature sensor. Maybe you can put a timer in series with the washer lid safety switch? |
#25
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On "Smart" power meters
On Dec 15, 10:31*am, "HeyBub" wrote:
"[WASHINGTON] Millions of households across America are taking a first step into the world of the "smart grid," as their power companies install meters that can tell them how much electricity they are using hour by hour - and sometimes, appliance by appliance. But not everyone is happy about it." http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/14/us...ef=instapundit Why should I be happy about it since I have already had to start paying an extra fee every damn month for that stupid meter that hasn't been installed yet and won't be for upto three years. I have to pay in advance for the meter, pay after the meter is finally installed for several more years and the only benefit that I can see will be to the power company who will be laying off employees that aren't needed to read the meters. |
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