The twenty year old building I attend services. Cinder block
walls, flat roof. The heat is natural gas, 80 percenters
(induced flue draft). The building has seven zones. Plus,
three offices have a mini split.

The problem is that three rooms are too hot. The primary
(kids class room) is in zone 6. Sometimes it's too cold, so
they push the thermostat to occupied. And much of the time
it's too hot, and so they open the windows.

The library with the copier is too hot. And a computer, both
of them throwing heat. I don't think they have a laminator,
or other heater. Could be in zone 5 or 4, not sure. If it's
zone 5, the thermostat is down the hall and around the
corner. If it's zone four, the thermostat is around the
other corner and down the other hall.

The nursery is probably in zone 4. They have two windows.
They typically open the windows to let the heat out.
Thermostat is around the corner in another room (the other
room has a copier right under the thermostat).

I havn't found any dampers, yet.

Any ideas how to keep everyone comfortable? Windows open is
a security problem because the teachers usually forget to
reclose them.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

Stormin Mormon wrote:
The twenty year old building I attend services. Cinder block
walls, flat roof. The heat is natural gas, 80 percenters
(induced flue draft). The building has seven zones. Plus,
three offices have a mini split.

The problem is that three rooms are too hot. The primary
(kids class room) is in zone 6. Sometimes it's too cold, so
they push the thermostat to occupied. And much of the time
it's too hot, and so they open the windows.

The library with the copier is too hot. And a computer, both
of them throwing heat. I don't think they have a laminator,
or other heater. Could be in zone 5 or 4, not sure. If it's
zone 5, the thermostat is down the hall and around the
corner. If it's zone four, the thermostat is around the
other corner and down the other hall.

The nursery is probably in zone 4. They have two windows.
They typically open the windows to let the heat out.
Thermostat is around the corner in another room (the other
room has a copier right under the thermostat).

I havn't found any dampers, yet.

Any ideas how to keep everyone comfortable? Windows open is
a security problem because the teachers usually forget to
reclose them.

Whatever the mechanical solution(s), I suggest a meeting to be sure all
users have a hint of what is going on and do what they should to keep
ALL users happy. This may be the hard part as old habits are hard to
break, so good luck.

Lou

On Nov 17, 8:24*am, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
The twenty year old building I attend services. Cinder block
walls, flat roof. The heat is natural gas, 80 percenters
(induced flue draft). The building has seven zones. Plus,
three offices have a mini split.

The problem is that three rooms are too hot. The primary
(kids class room) is in zone 6. Sometimes it's too cold, so
they push the thermostat to occupied. And much of the time
it's too hot, and so they open the windows.

The library with the copier is too hot. And a computer, both
of them throwing heat. I don't think they have a laminator,
or other heater. Could be in zone 5 or 4, not sure. If it's
zone 5, the thermostat is down the hall and around the
corner. If it's zone four, the thermostat is around the
other corner and down the other hall.

The nursery is probably in zone 4. They have two windows.
They typically open the windows to let the heat out.
Thermostat is around the corner in another room (the other
room has a copier right under the thermostat).

I havn't found any dampers, yet.

Any ideas how to keep everyone comfortable? Windows open is
a security problem because the teachers usually forget to
reclose them.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
*www.lds.org
.

Put locking covers on the thermostats

You are exactly correct, that the leadership (and class
teachers) have to be informed. I know of one teacher
who has been pushing the thermostat button to
occupied, or turning it off. Depending if she feels
the class room is too hot. It's like the old joke about
the married couple who got his and hers electric
blankets. The controls got swapped some how.
She's too cold so she's got it all the way up, and
he's too hot, so he's got his all the way down.

I've been wondering. Might be some way to keep the
circulating fans on all day, on Sunday. So the copier
can heat the rest of the zone, and the hot primary
room can help heat the rest of the zone.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"LouB"
wrote in message ...

Whatever the mechanical solution(s), I suggest a meeting to
be sure all
users have a hint of what is going on and do what they
should to keep
ALL users happy. This may be the hard part as old habits
are hard to
break, so good luck.

Lou

On Nov 17, 8:24*am, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
The twenty year old building I attend services. Cinder block
walls, flat roof. The heat is natural gas, 80 percenters
(induced flue draft). The building has seven zones. Plus,
three offices have a mini split.

The problem is that three rooms are too hot. The primary
(kids class room) is in zone 6. Sometimes it's too cold, so
they push the thermostat to occupied. And much of the time
it's too hot, and so they open the windows.

The library with the copier is too hot. And a computer, both
of them throwing heat. I don't think they have a laminator,
or other heater. Could be in zone 5 or 4, not sure. If it's
zone 5, the thermostat is down the hall and around the
corner. If it's zone four, the thermostat is around the
other corner and down the other hall.

The nursery is probably in zone 4. They have two windows.
They typically open the windows to let the heat out.
Thermostat is around the corner in another room (the other
room has a copier right under the thermostat).

I havn't found any dampers, yet.

Any ideas how to keep everyone comfortable? Windows open is
a security problem because the teachers usually forget to
reclose them.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
*www.lds.org
.

OK for gas heat, but forced hot air or hot water radiators and
convection heating or what?

Stormin Mormon wrote:

You are exactly correct, that the leadership (and class
teachers) have to be informed. I know of one teacher
who has been pushing the thermostat button to
occupied, or turning it off. Depending if she feels
the class room is too hot. It's like the old joke about
the married couple who got his and hers electric
blankets. The controls got swapped some how.
She's too cold so she's got it all the way up, and
he's too hot, so he's got his all the way down.

I've been wondering. Might be some way to keep the
circulating fans on all day, on Sunday. So the copier
can heat the rest of the zone, and the hot primary
room can help heat the rest of the zone.

New thermostats with occupancy motion detectors and password lockout.
Can probably get some energy efficiency rebate for automatic motion
detecting occupancy control. Of course, also inspect the system to
ensure that the zoning controls are working properly.

Adjusting HVAC in rooms with a lot of people is very difficult...

Each person puts off around 600 BTU's of heat! So if you fill a room with
people in the dead of winter, you may actually need a bit of cooling, not
heating!

They have the same problem in large computer rooms filled with electronic
equipment. It may be 20 degrees outside, but in the computer room they have
the A/C going full blast keeping the room cool.


"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
The twenty year old building I attend services. Cinder block
walls, flat roof. The heat is natural gas, 80 percenters
(induced flue draft). The building has seven zones. Plus,
three offices have a mini split.

The problem is that three rooms are too hot. The primary
(kids class room) is in zone 6. Sometimes it's too cold, so
they push the thermostat to occupied. And much of the time
it's too hot, and so they open the windows.

The library with the copier is too hot. And a computer, both
of them throwing heat. I don't think they have a laminator,
or other heater. Could be in zone 5 or 4, not sure. If it's
zone 5, the thermostat is down the hall and around the
corner. If it's zone four, the thermostat is around the
other corner and down the other hall.

The nursery is probably in zone 4. They have two windows.
They typically open the windows to let the heat out.
Thermostat is around the corner in another room (the other
room has a copier right under the thermostat).

I havn't found any dampers, yet.

Any ideas how to keep everyone comfortable? Windows open is
a security problem because the teachers usually forget to
reclose them.

On Tue, 17 Nov 2009 09:24:03 -0500, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

The twenty year old building I attend services. Cinder block
walls, flat roof. The heat is natural gas, 80 percenters
(induced flue draft). The building has seven zones. Plus,
three offices have a mini split.

The problem is that three rooms are too hot. The primary
(kids class room) is in zone 6. Sometimes it's too cold, so
they push the thermostat to occupied. And much of the time
it's too hot, and so they open the windows.

When the heat is on? Isn't that a sin?

When I was in a college fraternity, the house manager, another
student, disconnected the thermostat in the dining room but didnt'
tell anyone. Because it was radiator heat and not forced air, I don't
think it was obvious to those setting the thermostat up that nothing
new was happening.

He put another thermostat in the corner of the basement I think .


The library with the copier is too hot. And a computer, both
of them throwing heat. I don't think they have a laminator,
or other heater. Could be in zone 5 or 4, not sure. If it's
zone 5, the thermostat is down the hall and around the
corner. If it's zone four, the thermostat is around the
other corner and down the other hall.

The nursery is probably in zone 4. They have two windows.
They typically open the windows to let the heat out.
Thermostat is around the corner in another room (the other
room has a copier right under the thermostat).

I havn't found any dampers, yet.

Any ideas how to keep everyone comfortable? Windows open is
a security problem because the teachers usually forget to
reclose them.

Fan forced hot air. Heat registers in the ceiling. Some
return vent grilles in the floors.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"hr(bob) " wrote in
message
...

OK for gas heat, but forced hot air or hot water radiators
and
convection heating or what?

Seven zones, seven thermostats, and seven heating plants.
Not sure what you mean "zoning controls".

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Pete C." wrote in message
ter.com...


New thermostats with occupancy motion detectors and password
lockout.
Can probably get some energy efficiency rebate for automatic
motion
detecting occupancy control. Of course, also inspect the
system to
ensure that the zoning controls are working properly.

That's being my experience. The hot rooms are nursery and
primary (lot of high energy kids) and the library with the
copier pumping out heat.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Bill" wrote in message
...
Adjusting HVAC in rooms with a lot of people is very
difficult...

Each person puts off around 600 BTU's of heat! So if you
fill a room with
people in the dead of winter, you may actually need a bit of
cooling, not
heating!

They have the same problem in large computer rooms filled
with electronic
equipment. It may be 20 degrees outside, but in the computer
room they have
the A/C going full blast keeping the room cool.

If open windows in the heat season isn't a sin, it oughta
be.

When I was a teen, my sister and her boyfriend lived in a
house where the thermostat was in a different apartment. The
guy would turn the heat down before he left for work. And my
sister and her BF would freeze butt. I wasn't able to do
much for them. Now, I'd know how to run a separate wire,
and put a fixed point stat in the hall.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"mm" wrote in message
news

they push the thermostat to occupied. And much of the time
it's too hot, and so they open the windows.

When the heat is on? Isn't that a sin?

When I was in a college fraternity, the house manager,
another
student, disconnected the thermostat in the dining room but
didnt'
tell anyone. Because it was radiator heat and not forced
air, I don't
think it was obvious to those setting the thermostat up that
nothing
new was happening.

He put another thermostat in the corner of the basement I
think .

Stormin Mormon wrote:

Seven zones, seven thermostats, and seven heating plants.
Not sure what you mean "zoning controls".

Zoning controls presumed this was a zoned system as you had implied. If
this is in fact seven independent systems, it is not a zoned system
(singular). Zoning controls would be such things as motorized dampers or
valves that control zones fed be a common source furnace, boiler, etc.

At any rate, motion detecting secured thermostats and a checkup of each
system to ensure it is operating properly will go a long way towards
resolving the problem. Most times these issues are entirely operator
error where users with no knowledge of thermostats mess with them and
expect to feel instant changes in temperature, blissfully ignorant of
thermal mass, lag times, btu/hr capacity, etc. Keep those fingers off
the controls and suddenly thing start to work a lot better.







--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"Pete C." wrote in message
ter.com...

New thermostats with occupancy motion detectors and password
lockout.
Can probably get some energy efficiency rebate for automatic
motion
detecting occupancy control. Of course, also inspect the
system to
ensure that the zoning controls are working properly.

On Tue, 17 Nov 2009 18:36:11 -0500, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

If open windows in the heat season isn't a sin, it oughta
be.

When I was a teen, my sister and her boyfriend lived in a
house where the thermostat was in a different apartment. The
guy would turn the heat down before he left for work. And my
sister and her BF would freeze butt. I wasn't able to do
much for them. Now, I'd know how to run a separate wire,
and put a fixed point stat in the hall.

Not in the hall. The guy in the other apartment will find it. In
your sister's apartment.

When I lived in Brooklyn, our building of 49 apartments was bought by
a skinflint. I don't think there was a timer, but I guess he got the
super to turn the heat up in the morning for a couple hours and down
in the middle of the day when most people weren't home. But some
people were home including some old ladies and every winter day the
building would cool below the legal daytime temperature for NYC.

Later a tenant I didn't know told me his baby had gotten sick and died
partly because of this.

And he was also fined by the city because of this. But that hadn't
gone to court yet, nor did I even know about the case. So one night,
I bypassed** the keyswitch in the elevator, went to the basement,
usscrewed the hasp on the furnace room (which was obviously put on
wrong), and I found the Heat Output knob on some controller. It was
held on the shaft with a set screw. I loosened it, moved the know ccw
and tightened it on again, then turned it to the setting where it used
to be, so it loooked like the temp hadn't been changed, and all my
neighbors had more heat. I don't know how many years this lasted
before he figured it out.

**I had permanently bypassed it. We used to have access to the
basement, which was important if I blew the fuse for the apartment and
I wanted to change it without looking for or waking the super. The LL
had also agreed I could store some boxes down there. There was a lot
of empty space.

So when the one of the empty circles in the brass elevator control
panel was replaced by a key lock switch, and I realized one had to
unlock the switch and also push the button for the basement, one night
I took off the whole faceplate, and attached some lamp cord across the
terminals of the switch. The other end of the wire was cut with wire
cutters. Then I put the faceplate back on, positioning the end of the
wire even with the bottom of the thick brass faceplate.

So when I wanted to go to the basement, all I had to do was hold a
coin sideways so it touched both wires of the lamp cord, and press the
button for the basement at the smae time. I moved 2 or 3 years later
and when I was back twice after that, I forgot to look if he had
removed it or not.

Seven zones, seven thermostats, and seven heating plants.
Not sure what you mean "zoning controls".

Zoning controls presumed this was a zoned system as you had
implied.

CY: I could easily have used the wrong term.

If
this is in fact seven independent systems, it is not a zoned
system
(singular). Zoning controls would be such things as
motorized dampers or
valves that control zones fed be a common source furnace,
boiler, etc.

CY: The building has seven separate furnaces, with seven
blowers, thermostats, etc. There are three minisplit AC in
three offices. I have not been able to find any dampers.

At any rate, motion detecting secured thermostats and a
checkup of each
system to ensure it is operating properly will go a long way
towards
resolving the problem. Most times these issues are entirely
operator
error where users with no knowledge of thermostats mess with
them and
expect to feel instant changes in temperature, blissfully
ignorant of
thermal mass, lag times, btu/hr capacity, etc. Keep those
fingers off
the controls and suddenly thing start to work a lot better.

CY: I'm not sure the church would go for motion detecting
thermostats. But, it's a good idea. Presently, only one
thermostat appears to be able to set for seven days of the
week. That's the one in the chapel. I've got that set to
come on early, and switch off, late. Wish I could set the
other six furnaces to come on early in the day and have the
building comfortable before people arrive. Sigh.






--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"Pete C." wrote in message
ter.com...

New thermostats with occupancy motion detectors and
password
lockout.
Can probably get some energy efficiency rebate for
automatic
motion
detecting occupancy control. Of course, also inspect the
system to
ensure that the zoning controls are working properly.

In article ,
"Stormin Mormon" wrote:

The twenty year old building I attend services. Cinder block
walls, flat roof. The heat is natural gas, 80 percenters
(induced flue draft). The building has seven zones. Plus,
three offices have a mini split.

The problem is that three rooms are too hot. The primary
(kids class room) is in zone 6. Sometimes it's too cold, so
they push the thermostat to occupied. And much of the time
it's too hot, and so they open the windows.

The library with the copier is too hot. And a computer, both
of them throwing heat. I don't think they have a laminator,
or other heater. Could be in zone 5 or 4, not sure. If it's
zone 5, the thermostat is down the hall and around the
corner. If it's zone four, the thermostat is around the
other corner and down the other hall.

The nursery is probably in zone 4. They have two windows.
They typically open the windows to let the heat out.
Thermostat is around the corner in another room (the other
room has a copier right under the thermostat).

I havn't found any dampers, yet.

Any ideas how to keep everyone comfortable? Windows open is
a security problem because the teachers usually forget to
reclose them.

Tell them to take their comfort from jesus, not the thermostat. They're
worshipping false deities, and will surely perish in hell for it.

On Sun, 22 Nov 2009 08:06:13 -0800, Smitty Two
wrote:

[snip]

Any ideas how to keep everyone comfortable? Windows open is
a security problem because the teachers usually forget to
reclose them.

Tell them to take their comfort from jesus, not the thermostat. They're
worshipping false deities, and will surely perish in hell for it.

Good idea :-)