Awl --

The issue of copper for natural gas came up recently, where a poster
indicated that, according to his city code, a certain **type** of copper was
OK. I was not able to find out what that copper was, but then I'm no google
whiz.

What I did find some consensus on was the issue of H2S concentration in the
gas and copper compatitbility:

Copper is quite OK (apparently any type) IF the concentration of H2S is
less than 0.7 grains per 100 cu ft or 0.7 mg per 100 liters (
http://dallascityhall.org/pdf/Buildi...GasSystems.pdf ) . I think
it was this link that indicated that providers are *supposed to* supply
"clean gas" with h2s less than this.

I surmised that part of the problem is that a lot of natural gas *aleady*
has boucou h2s in it, and the problem is getting rid of it. It's called
"sour gas" if the concentration of h2s is high enough.

One guy in http://www.nachi.org/forum/f22/copper-gas-pipe-18350/ talks
about copper for gas being fine after 100+ years of use, that he knows of
first hand. The discussion in general shows the disparity of views, with
some people thinking copper is preferable to black pipe in some regards.

Another less sophisticated discussion is on
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...1200400AAVuMX0 .

The copper peeple certainly endorse copper's use:
http://www.copper.org/applications/fuelgas/ , and specifically talk about K
and L copper tubing.

I may have found an original copper gas line in my 1920's house, altho I
have to verify that this line is indeed carrying gas -- my only hint so far
is that it is by itself, as opposed to hot/cold water pairs. I guess I'll
put a stethoscope on it or sumpn, to try to sleuth this out.

The Q is then: how diligent is the typical supplier about providing clean
gas?

Another interesting thing is that you can buy natural gas detectors -- not
too expensive, $100 iirc.

These, in conjunction with a solenoid main gas valve, should provide pretty
foolproof protection for any type of gas delivery system. I'm thinking of
getting one of these, altho a 2" solenoid gas valve (2" to and from my
meter) will likely break the bank.
I should proly think about downsizing this -- 1" should more than suffice, I
would imagine.

Also, getting a solenoid gas valve to *work* with a detector, or buying a
turnkey system, proly isn't so cheap, regardless of the pipe size.

--
EA

Existential Angst wrote:
Awl --

The issue of copper for natural gas came up recently, where a poster
indicated that, according to his city code, a certain **type** of copper was
OK. I was not able to find out what that copper was, but then I'm no google
whiz.

What I did find some consensus on was the issue of H2S concentration in the
gas and copper compatitbility:

Copper is quite OK (apparently any type) IF the concentration of H2S is
less than 0.7 grains per 100 cu ft or 0.7 mg per 100 liters (
http://dallascityhall.org/pdf/Buildi...GasSystems.pdf ) . I think
it was this link that indicated that providers are *supposed to* supply
"clean gas" with h2s less than this.

I surmised that part of the problem is that a lot of natural gas *aleady*
has boucou h2s in it, and the problem is getting rid of it. It's called
"sour gas" if the concentration of h2s is high enough.

One guy in http://www.nachi.org/forum/f22/copper-gas-pipe-18350/ talks
about copper for gas being fine after 100+ years of use, that he knows of
first hand. The discussion in general shows the disparity of views, with
some people thinking copper is preferable to black pipe in some regards.

Another less sophisticated discussion is on
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...1200400AAVuMX0 .

The copper peeple certainly endorse copper's use:
http://www.copper.org/applications/fuelgas/ , and specifically talk about K
and L copper tubing.

I may have found an original copper gas line in my 1920's house, altho I
have to verify that this line is indeed carrying gas -- my only hint so far
is that it is by itself, as opposed to hot/cold water pairs. I guess I'll
put a stethoscope on it or sumpn, to try to sleuth this out.

The Q is then: how diligent is the typical supplier about providing clean
gas?

Another interesting thing is that you can buy natural gas detectors -- not
too expensive, $100 iirc.

These, in conjunction with a solenoid main gas valve, should provide pretty
foolproof protection for any type of gas delivery system. I'm thinking of
getting one of these, altho a 2" solenoid gas valve (2" to and from my
meter) will likely break the bank.
I should proly think about downsizing this -- 1" should more than suffice, I
would imagine.

Also, getting a solenoid gas valve to *work* with a detector, or buying a
turnkey system, proly isn't so cheap, regardless of the pipe size.


I remember reading something about a guy in England trying to commit
suicide by sticking his head in an unlit gas oven and nothing happened
because the North Sea gas was not poisonous. The frustrated Darwin
Award candidate then sat down and lit a cigarette which caused an
explosion that blew him out the window. I don't remember if he survived
but someone had to tell what occurred.

TDD

On Nov 15, 8:29*am, "Existential Angst"
wrote:
Awl --

The issue of copper for natural gas came up recently, where a poster
indicated that, according to his city code, a certain **type** of copper was
OK. *I was not able to find out what that copper was, but then I'm no google
whiz.

What I did find some consensus on was the issue of H2S concentration in the
gas and copper compatitbility:

* Copper is quite OK (apparently any type) IF the concentration of H2S is
less than 0.7 grains per 100 cu ft or 0.7 mg per 100 liters (http://dallascityhall.org/pdf/Buildi...GasSystems.pdf) . *I think
it was this link that indicated that providers are *supposed to* supply
"clean gas" with h2s less than this.

I surmised that part of the problem is that a lot of natural gas *aleady*
has boucou h2s in it, and the problem is getting rid of it. *It's called
"sour gas" if the concentration of h2s is high enough.

One guy in *http://www.nachi.org/forum/f22/coppe...pe-18350/talks
about copper for gas being fine after 100+ years of use, that he knows of
first hand. *The discussion in general shows the disparity of views, with
some people thinking copper is preferable to black pipe in some regards.

Another less sophisticated discussion is onhttp://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081021200400AAVuMX0*.

The copper peeple certainly endorse copper's use:http://www.copper.org/applications/fuelgas/, and specifically talk about K
and L copper tubing.

I may have found an original copper gas line in my 1920's house, altho I
have to verify that this line is indeed carrying gas -- my only hint so far
is that it is by itself, as opposed to hot/cold water pairs. *I guess I'll
put a stethoscope on it or sumpn, to try to sleuth this out.

The Q is then: *how diligent is the typical supplier about providing clean
gas?

Another interesting thing is that you can buy natural gas detectors -- not
too expensive, $100 iirc.

These, in conjunction with a solenoid main gas valve, should provide pretty
foolproof protection for any type of gas delivery system. *I'm thinking of
getting one of these, altho a 2" solenoid gas valve (2" to and from my
meter) will likely break the bank.
I should proly think about downsizing this -- 1" should more than suffice, I
would imagine.

Also, getting a solenoid gas valve to *work* with a detector, or buying a
turnkey system, proly isn't so cheap, regardless of the pipe size.

--
EA

FWIW, years ago I ran a flexible copper line to an outbuilding that
needed heat. It stayed in service for around 3 years, and was removed.
By then the copper was no longer very bendable at all, and the
interior was typical dark brown from sulfur reaction. Doesn't seem to
me there was any safety issue, since the flexible characteristic of
the installation was not a critical element, like compensating for
some sort of movement. Logically then, a robust rigid pipe well
supported should be OK for a lot of installations. Black iron, though,
wins on cost and integrity of the threaded connections. Local pros
still install it underground with heavy asphaltic coating wrapped with
paper. Of course, newer materials on the market should be considered.

Joe

Existential Angst wrote:
Awl --

The issue of copper for natural gas came up recently, where a poster
indicated that, according to his city code, a certain **type** of
copper was OK. I was not able to find out what that copper was, but
then I'm no google whiz.

Since you've discovered the H2S limit for reasonable operation, your next
call should be to your natural gas supplier and ask them the H2S
concentration they supply.