Awl --

Does soldering #12 or #14 wires before placing a wire nut on them violate
any codes?
Can soldering + electrical tape (or bug tape) *substitute* for a wire nut?
Ditto with thicker wires and "bugs".

tia

--

EA

Existential Angst wrote:
Awl --

Does soldering #12 or #14 wires before placing a wire nut on them violate
any codes?
Can soldering + electrical tape (or bug tape) *substitute* for a wire nut?
Ditto with thicker wires and "bugs".

tia


Soldering is generally allowed (NEC 110.14). Connections have to be
"spliced or joined to be mechanically and electrically secure without
solder and then be soldered." Generally that means twisting #12 and #14
wires.

"Friction" tape used to be used for soldered connections, and may be
better than plastic electrical tape. Sharp edges tend to poke out
through plastic tape. No idea what "bug tape" is.

I wouldn't use a wire nut on a soldered connection - it is not what they
are designed for (and instructions do not say to solder the wire, so
they are not UL listed for that use).

I wouldn't solder a connection and can't think of where it would be a
good idea (except K&T).

There are places where solder is not allowed. The one that comes to mind
is for a "grounding electrode conductor".

--
bud--

wrote in message
...
On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 08:35:43 -0500, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

Awl --

Does soldering #12 or #14 wires before placing a wire nut on them violate
any codes?
Can soldering + electrical tape (or bug tape) *substitute* for a wire nut?
Ditto with thicker wires and "bugs".

tia


Bud is right and cited the appropriate code language.
As long as the connection is mechanically sound you can solder it and
insulate with tape. Twisting is generally considered secure but if you
are old school you would use a western union splice.

http://gfretwell.com/electrical/splices.jpg

Nice pics.
In my 1920's house, some of the splices they twisted, bent half the twist
back, and then soldered.
And *then* wire-nutted! And **then**, on some, taped the skirt of the wire
nut.... goodgawd....
Strange that they then got 6 out of 6 Edison circuits wrong..... Can't wait
to fix those.

--
EA

"bud--" wrote in message
.. .
Existential Angst wrote:
Awl --

Does soldering #12 or #14 wires before placing a wire nut on them violate
any codes?
Can soldering + electrical tape (or bug tape) *substitute* for a wire
nut?
Ditto with thicker wires and "bugs".

tia


Soldering is generally allowed (NEC 110.14). Connections have to be
"spliced or joined to be mechanically and electrically secure without
solder and then be soldered." Generally that means twisting #12 and #14
wires.

"Friction" tape used to be used for soldered connections, and may be
better than plastic electrical tape. Sharp edges tend to poke out through
plastic tape. No idea what "bug tape" is.

Bug tape is is not a tape per se but rather a black thick tape-like wrap
that molds around sharp edges, etc.
When that is completed around a bug (compression connector? That "U" with a
nut....), the thing is then wrapped in elecrical tape. A bitch to undo. On
thick wire, can be as big a small fist.


I wouldn't use a wire nut on a soldered connection - it is not what they
are designed for (and instructions do not say to solder the wire, so they
are not UL listed for that use).

I wouldn't solder a connection and can't think of where it would be a good
idea (except K&T).

What is K&T?

--
EA



There are places where solder is not allowed. The one that comes to mind
is for a "grounding electrode conductor".

--
bud--

On Nov 10, 11:05*am, "Existential Angst"
wrote:
wrote in message

...



On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 08:35:43 -0500, "Existential Angst"
wrote:

Awl --

Does soldering #12 or #14 wires before placing a wire nut on them violate
any codes?
Can soldering + electrical tape (or bug tape) *substitute* for a wire nut?
Ditto with thicker wires and "bugs".


Bud is right and cited the appropriate code language.
As long as the connection is mechanically sound you can solder it and
insulate with tape. Twisting is generally considered secure but if you
are old school you would use a western union splice.

http://gfretwell.com/electrical/splices.jpg

Nice pics.
In my 1920's house, some of the splices they twisted, bent half the twist
back, and then soldered.
And *then* wire-nutted! And **then**, on some, taped the skirt of the wire
nut.... *goodgawd....
Strange that they then got 6 out of 6 Edison circuits wrong..... *Can't wait
to fix those.

All of that extra stuff was obviously meant to keep the electricity
from leaking out. There's nothing worse than coming home to find a
pool of electrons has leaked onto your floor and ruined the carpet.

Are you considering soldering wires? If so, why? It makes working on
the wires a pain and doesn't add any security - just wastes time.

R

Existential Angst wrote:
"bud--" wrote in message
.. .
Existential Angst wrote:
Awl --

Does soldering #12 or #14 wires before placing a wire nut on them violate
any codes?
Can soldering + electrical tape (or bug tape) *substitute* for a wire
nut?
Ditto with thicker wires and "bugs".

tia

Soldering is generally allowed (NEC 110.14). Connections have to be
"spliced or joined to be mechanically and electrically secure without
solder and then be soldered." Generally that means twisting #12 and #14
wires.

"Friction" tape used to be used for soldered connections, and may be
better than plastic electrical tape. Sharp edges tend to poke out through
plastic tape. No idea what "bug tape" is.

Bug tape is is not a tape per se but rather a black thick tape-like wrap
that molds around sharp edges, etc.
When that is completed around a bug (compression connector? That "U" with a
nut....), the thing is then wrapped in elecrical tape. A bitch to undo. On
thick wire, can be as big a small fist.


I would call that rubber tape. Some of it is quite thick. And probably
all self vulcanizing, so it sticks itself.

I would call the "bug" a "split bolt connector".

I wouldn't use a wire nut on a soldered connection - it is not what they
are designed for (and instructions do not say to solder the wire, so they
are not UL listed for that use).

I wouldn't solder a connection and can't think of where it would be a good
idea (except K&T).

What is K&T?


Knob and tube

--
bud--

On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 11:10:21 -0500, Existential Angst wrote:

What is K&T?


what is google?


Try searching for "K&T wire nut"

On Nov 10, 11:10*am, "Existential Angst"
wrote:
"bud--" wrote in message

.. .





Existential Angst wrote:
Awl --

Does soldering #12 or #14 wires before placing a wire nut on them violate
any codes?
Can soldering + electrical tape (or bug tape) *substitute* for a wire
nut?
Ditto with thicker wires and "bugs".

tia

Soldering is generally allowed (NEC 110.14). Connections have to be
"spliced or joined to be mechanically and electrically secure without
solder and then be soldered." Generally that means twisting #12 and #14
wires.

"Friction" tape used to be used for soldered connections, and may be
better than plastic electrical tape. Sharp edges tend to poke out through
plastic tape. No idea what "bug tape" is.

Bug tape is is not a tape per se but rather a black thick tape-like wrap
that molds around sharp edges, etc.
When that is completed around a bug (compression connector? *That "U" with a
nut....), the thing is then wrapped in elecrical tape. *A bitch to undo.. *On
thick wire, can be as big a small fist.



I wouldn't use a wire nut on a soldered connection - it is not what they
are designed for (and instructions do not say to solder the wire, so they
are not UL listed for that use).

I wouldn't solder a connection and can't think of where it would be a good
idea (except K&T).

What is K&T?

--
EA





There are places where solder is not allowed. The one that comes to mind
is for a "grounding electrode conductor".

--
bud--- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

It's the type of wiring that anyone who is anyone would want...

http://www.nachi.org/images09/spliced.jpg

On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 08:54:56 -0500, salty wrote:
Not permitted, and for good reason. In the event of a wire getting hot
from a malfunction, the solder may melt and drip somewhere BAD.

Wonder* what temperatures cable insulation, electrical tape, the plastic
used in wire nuts etc. fails at? I think typical solder melting point is
something like 370F - if things are running that hot it wouldn't surprise
me if something else doesn't give out first...

* I tried googling quickly, but got lost in a minefield of patent
applications (and some stupid built-in viewer on 3M's site which killed my
browser and made me give up :-)

cheers

Jules

In ,
Existential Angst typed:
Awl --

Does soldering #12 or #14 wires before placing a wire nut on them
violate any codes?
Can soldering + electrical tape (or bug tape) *substitute* for a wire
nut? Ditto with thicker wires and "bugs".

tia

It may or may not be allowed; the ONLY place to get a reliable answer from
would be your local code enforcement office. When I lived in Chicago, it
was legal there. It's legal here where i live now, too. But it's NOT legal
in Ct, Ca, or in most of the southers states. Remember, the NEC is minimum
requirements: Your local codes have the very last word as long as they don't
violate the NEC.
So, give the code office a call. They're almost always good guys, and
you don't have to identify yourself.

HTH,

Twayne`

On Nov 10, 8:42*pm, "news.eternal-september.org"
wrote:
,
Existential Angst typed:

Awl --

Does soldering #12 or #14 wires before placing a wire nut on them
violate any codes?
Can soldering + electrical tape (or bug tape) *substitute* for a wire
nut? Ditto with thicker wires and "bugs".

tia

It may or may not be allowed; the ONLY place to get a reliable answer from
would be your local code enforcement office. *When I lived in Chicago, it
was legal there. *It's legal here where i live now, too. *But it's NOT legal
in Ct, Ca, or in most of the southers states. *Remember, the NEC is minimum
requirements: Your local codes have the very last word as long as they don't
violate the NEC.
* *So, give the code office a call. *They're almost always good guys, and
you don't have to identify yourself.

HTH,

Twayne`

Soldering may or may not violate the most applicable codes but I
don't know of any jurisdiction where soldering is required. I for one
would be interested in knowing of anyplace where solder joints were
required.

Jimmie

On Tue, 10 Nov 2009 18:54:10 -0800 (PST), JIMMIE
wrote:

On Nov 10, 8:42Â*pm, "news.eternal-september.org"
wrote:
,
Existential Angst typed:

Awl --

Does soldering #12 or #14 wires before placing a wire nut on them
violate any codes?
Can soldering + electrical tape (or bug tape) *substitute* for a wire
nut? Ditto with thicker wires and "bugs".

tia

It may or may not be allowed; the ONLY place to get a reliable answer from
would be your local code enforcement office. Â*When I lived in Chicago, it
was legal there. Â*It's legal here where i live now, too. Â*But it's NOT legal
in Ct, Ca, or in most of the southers states. Â*Remember, the NEC is minimum
requirements: Your local codes have the very last word as long as they don't
violate the NEC.
Â* Â*So, give the code office a call. Â*They're almost always good guys, and
you don't have to identify yourself.

HTH,

Twayne`

Soldering may or may not violate the most applicable codes but I
don't know of any jurisdiction where soldering is required. I for one
would be interested in knowing of anyplace where solder joints were
required.

Jimmie
NONE in north america

In article , (Existential Angst) writes:

| Strange that they then got 6 out of 6 Edison circuits wrong..... Can't wait
| to fix those.

All 5 of the Edison circuits in my 1959 house were wrong as well. This
seems like too much for chance; I think they misunderstood the layout of
the fuse box.

Dan Lanciani
ddl@danlan.*com

news.eternal-september.org wrote:
....
... Your local codes have the very last word as long as they don't
violate the NEC.

I don't know of any that do, but there's nothing that would keep a local
code provision from being in contravention of NEC...

--

Existential Angst wrote:
Awl --

Does soldering #12 or #14 wires before placing a wire nut on them violate
any codes?
Can soldering + electrical tape (or bug tape) *substitute* for a wire nut?
Ditto with thicker wires and "bugs".

While helping a guy who couldn't find a real electrician that would
touch the work, I found 3 light switches, one a two way, all mounted on
a 2x4 nailed to the wall with all the wires coming out of the original
single gang metal box in the wall. (looked real nice the their kitchen)

Turns out they used all that room to make one hell of a junction "area".
I think it was 5 wires with about 3 wire nuts to combine one set of
hots. There wasn't much room and the short wires had been bent too many
times already, so I twisted then soldered them all together with 1 or 2
pigtails. There was so much more there that I don't remember it all, I
did find and repair the disconnected mystery wires that went to a
circuit for the outside lamp which hadn't worked for 25+ years. Anyway,
yes I soldered the wires and made sure the circuit was on a 15 amp fuse.
To keep the mess from cutting through the tape I used a large wire nut
then taped over it. I even stuck it all inside the wall in a couple 2
gang boxes and got rid of the ever so safe 2x4 surface mount with bare
wires showing. I didn't give a **** if soldering was code, I know I
left there with the whole mess 100 times more safe than it was when I
got there.