On Nov 4, 8:24�am, wrote:
On Wed, 4 Nov 2009 05:08:32 -0800 (PST), "





wrote:
On Nov 4, 12:17?am, wrote:
On Tue, 3 Nov 2009 20:18:57 -0800 (PST), "

wrote:
On Nov 3, 10:28?pm, AZ Nomad wrote:
On Tue, 03 Nov 2009 08:51:11 -0500, Nate Nagel wrote:
I believe the GFCI itself needs a ground, it's the stuff downstream that
doesn't.

Exactly wrong.

Well you can have trooubles depending on what you plug in. some
devices REQUIRE a ground for proper operation.

computers, fluroscent lamps, come quickly to mind..........

Computers need a ground? That would certainly be news to the two that
have been running in my cars for close to a decade.

car computers are grounded to the vehicle.

at least a few years ago many PCs needed to be grounded. no ground can
cause static issues

Please describe "static issues". Give examples, too.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

flakey operation, freezes lock ups etc.

a buddy who repairs computers for a living asks this question first.

i found this out after i had issues and his advice checked the outlet
ground, which wasnt solid, after a earler receptable replacement

this all 5 years ago, i dont know about today

On Tue, 3 Nov 2009 20:18:57 -0800 (PST), wrote:
On Nov 3, 10:28???pm, AZ Nomad wrote:
On Tue, 03 Nov 2009 08:51:11 -0500, Nate Nagel wrote:
I believe the GFCI itself needs a ground, it's the stuff downstream that
doesn't.

Exactly wrong.

Well you can have trooubles depending on what you plug in. some
devices REQUIRE a ground for proper operation.

computers, fluroscent lamps, come quickly to mind..........

all will work perfectly without a ground. keep trying.

The ground is there for equipment operation. It's there to safeguard the human
during a electrical fault (110 breaks loose, touches the case; transformer
isolation breaks down, etc.)

On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 08:11:25 -0600, AZ Nomad wrote:
On Tue, 3 Nov 2009 20:18:57 -0800 (PST), wrote:
On Nov 3, 10:28???pm, AZ Nomad wrote:
On Tue, 03 Nov 2009 08:51:11 -0500, Nate Nagel wrote:
I believe the GFCI itself needs a ground, it's the stuff downstream that
doesn't.

Exactly wrong.

Well you can have trooubles depending on what you plug in. some
devices REQUIRE a ground for proper operation.

computers, fluroscent lamps, come quickly to mind..........

all will work perfectly without a ground. keep trying.


The ground is there for equipment operation. It's there to safeguard the human
during a electrical fault (110 breaks loose, touches the case; transformer
isolation breaks down, etc.)

god damn keyboard dyslexia. That should read:
"The ground is NOT there for equipment operation."

On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 09:13:26 -0500, wrote:
Most "computer repairmen" are not really electronic techs. They are
amateur parts changers who turned a hobby into a job. That is evident
in your friend's diagnosis. There is no scientific basis for the claim
that personal computers need a ground to operate properly. That has
been true since the inception of personal computers. A good ground is
a good idea, but not to make the computer free from "static issues" or
to enhance reliability.

You don't need a ground to avoid "static issues" either.

Static electricity is when two objects are at different electrical potentials.
Connect them together and there is a brief electrical current until they
are at equal potentials.

When installing static sensative devices into a computer, one doesn't need
to be grounded. One simply needs to be at the same static potential as
the equipment. For example, after removing a memory module from its
antistatic wrapping, hold it in one hand, with the other touch the computer's
case. Module, human, and computer are now all at the same static potential
and there will not be a equipment damaging current flow when the device is
installed.

I live in bone dry phoenix arizona and have to do something like this every time
I kiss my wife goodbye before going to work. I touch her hand first so the
static zap is there instead of at the kiss.

wrote:

Most "computer repairmen" are not really electronic techs. They are
amateur parts changers who turned a hobby into a job. That is evident
in your friend's diagnosis. There is no scientific basis for the claim
that personal computers need a ground to operate properly. That has
been true since the inception of personal computers. A good ground is
a good idea, but not to make the computer free from "static issues" or
to enhance reliability.




A ground might be necessary for some surge protectors to work. The
computer that's plugged into it, not so much.

Bob

On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 08:44:44 -0600, zxcvbob wrote:
wrote:

Most "computer repairmen" are not really electronic techs. They are
amateur parts changers who turned a hobby into a job. That is evident
in your friend's diagnosis. There is no scientific basis for the claim
that personal computers need a ground to operate properly. That has
been true since the inception of personal computers. A good ground is
a good idea, but not to make the computer free from "static issues" or
to enhance reliability.




A ground might be necessary for some surge protectors to work. The
computer that's plugged into it, not so much.

Nope. If the surge protector's ground input is isolated, they'll still
work perfectly.

On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 09:48:31 -0500, wrote:
On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 08:32:59 -0600, AZ Nomad
wrote:

On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 09:13:26 -0500, wrote:
Most "computer repairmen" are not really electronic techs. They are
amateur parts changers who turned a hobby into a job. That is evident
in your friend's diagnosis. There is no scientific basis for the claim
that personal computers need a ground to operate properly. That has
been true since the inception of personal computers. A good ground is
a good idea, but not to make the computer free from "static issues" or
to enhance reliability.

You don't need a ground to avoid "static issues" either.


I believe that's exactly what I said.
I wasn't disagreeing with you.

DD_BobK wrote:
The only newsreader that leaves this garbage is your retarded google
one. The garbage is just more noise, even to the people that use
google-groups. Editing is too difficult a concept?



far better to install a ground wire.
its not a killer expense
Using your Ouija board again?

You have no idea how difficult it will be to add a ground wire.
And it has not been code compliant for many years to attach it to a
water pipe, except for the first 5 feet of pipe inside the building.

--
bud--

And the reason your previously posted replies contained lots of
"quoted text" that you failed to "edit" ...might be?

Editing is too difficult a concept?

Could be equally applied to hallerb.

On the other had you cleverly edited out the context for my reply and
left parts that are not relevant.
Editing is too difficult a concept?

In any case, at least leaving "too much" gives the context for how the
thread got where it is.

The relics inserted by the google "newsreader" are garbage. They are
100% noise. When I use google I carefully edit them out.

--
bud--

On Nov 4, 2:24*pm, bud-- wrote:
DD_BobK wrote:
The only newsreader that leaves this garbage is your retarded google
one. The garbage is just more noise, even to the people that use
google-groups. Editing is too difficult a concept?

far better to install a ground wire.
its not a killer expense
Using your Ouija board again?

You have no idea how difficult it will be to add a ground wire.
And it has not been code compliant for many years to attach it to a
water pipe, except for the first 5 feet of pipe inside the building.

--
bud--

And the reason your previously posted replies contained lots of
"quoted text" that you failed to "edit" *...might be?

Editing is too difficult a concept?

Could be equally applied to hallerb.

On the other had you cleverly edited out the context for my reply and
left parts that are not relevant.
Editing is too difficult a concept?

In any case, at least leaving "too much" gives the context for how the
thread got where it is.

The relics inserted by the google "newsreader" are garbage. They are
100% noise. When I use google I carefully edit them out.

--
bud--

Sorry my editing didn't meet your specs....too little, too much, too
selective........ too bad

In the future, I'll continue to post the way I want to post...welcome
to the internet.

If you need help using navigation means on your computer maybe
someone can help you out.

Don't like a post...here's a tip.....ignore, don't read it.

cheers
Bob

DD_BobK wrote:
On Nov 4, 2:24 pm, bud-- wrote:
DD_BobK wrote:
The only newsreader that leaves this garbage is your retarded google
one. The garbage is just more noise, even to the people that use
google-groups. Editing is too difficult a concept?
far better to install a ground wire.
its not a killer expense
Using your Ouija board again?
You have no idea how difficult it will be to add a ground wire.
And it has not been code compliant for many years to attach it to a
water pipe, except for the first 5 feet of pipe inside the building.
--
bud--
And the reason your previously posted replies contained lots of
"quoted text" that you failed to "edit" ...might be?
Editing is too difficult a concept?
Could be equally applied to hallerb.

On the other had you cleverly edited out the context for my reply and
left parts that are not relevant.
Editing is too difficult a concept?

In any case, at least leaving "too much" gives the context for how the
thread got where it is.

The relics inserted by the google "newsreader" are garbage. They are
100% noise. When I use google I carefully edit them out.

--
bud--

Sorry my editing didn't meet your specs....too little, too much, too
selective........ too bad

In the future, I'll continue to post the way I want to post...welcome
to the internet.

If you need help using navigation means on your computer maybe
someone can help you out.

Don't like a post...here's a tip.....ignore, don't read it.


All of which applies to your post a couple back. If you followed you own
advice you wouldn't have made it.

--
bud--

On Nov 5, 6:17*am, bud-- wrote:
DD_BobK wrote:
On Nov 4, 2:24 pm, bud-- wrote:
DD_BobK wrote:
The only newsreader that leaves this garbage is your retarded google
one. The garbage is just more noise, even to the people that use
google-groups. Editing is too difficult a concept?
far better to install a ground wire.
its not a killer expense
Using your Ouija board again?
You have no idea how difficult it will be to add a ground wire.
And it has not been code compliant for many years to attach it to a
water pipe, except for the first 5 feet of pipe inside the building.
--
bud--
And the reason your previously posted replies contained lots of
"quoted text" that you failed to "edit" *...might be?
Editing is too difficult a concept?
Could be equally applied to hallerb.

On the other had you cleverly edited out the context for my reply and
left parts that are not relevant.
Editing is too difficult a concept?

In any case, at least leaving "too much" gives the context for how the
thread got where it is.

The relics inserted by the google "newsreader" are garbage. They are
100% noise. When I use google I carefully edit them out.

--
bud--

Sorry my editing didn't meet your specs....too little, too much, too
selective........ too bad

In the future, I'll continue to post the way I want to post...welcome
to the internet.

If you need help using navigation means on your computer *maybe
someone can help you out.

Don't like a post...here's a tip.....ignore, don't read it.

All of which applies to your post a couple back. If you followed you own
advice you wouldn't have made it.

--
bud--

No ...not exactly.

I don't "not like" your posts........I find them ridiculously
entertaining, keep them coming.

It's interesting to see how some people's brains work.

cheers
Bob

"DD_BobK" wrote in message
...
On Nov 5, 6:17 am, bud-- wrote:
DD_BobK wrote:
On Nov 4, 2:24 pm, bud-- wrote:
DD_BobK wrote:
The only newsreader that leaves this garbage is your retarded google
one. The garbage is just more noise, even to the people that use
google-groups. Editing is too difficult a concept?
far better to install a ground wire.
its not a killer expense
Using your Ouija board again?
You have no idea how difficult it will be to add a ground wire.
And it has not been code compliant for many years to attach it to a
water pipe, except for the first 5 feet of pipe inside the building.
--
bud--
And the reason your previously posted replies contained lots of
"quoted text" that you failed to "edit" ...might be?
Editing is too difficult a concept?
Could be equally applied to hallerb.

On the other had you cleverly edited out the context for my reply and
left parts that are not relevant.
Editing is too difficult a concept?

In any case, at least leaving "too much" gives the context for how the
thread got where it is.

The relics inserted by the google "newsreader" are garbage. They are
100% noise. When I use google I carefully edit them out.

--
bud--

Sorry my editing didn't meet your specs....too little, too much, too
selective........ too bad

In the future, I'll continue to post the way I want to post...welcome
to the internet.

If you need help using navigation means on your computer maybe
someone can help you out.

Don't like a post...here's a tip.....ignore, don't read it.

All of which applies to your post a couple back. If you followed you own
advice you wouldn't have made it.

--
bud--

No ...not exactly.

I don't "not like" your posts........I find them ridiculously
entertaining, keep them coming.

It's interesting to see how some people's brains work.

cheers
Bob

Dude, not to be argumentative, but you've got issues

propman wrote:
Lee B wrote:

paint, and have a new vanity installed. There is currently a two prong
outlet near the sink in the hall bath. I saw a couple of sites online
that says these can be GFI'd, but that they won't have an equipment
ground (whatever that is).

FWIW, so far no-one seems to have mentioned this but the two prongs
doesn't necessarily mean that the ground wire is missing....a lot of
older bathrooms had a two pronged razor outlet installed which used a
step-down transformer to lower the line voltage to a lower value (can't
recall the exact amount off hand). The cover plates for these units were
quite a bit larger than regular outlet cover plates....also curling
irons plugged into these outlets didn't work due to the reduced voltage.

This may or may not apply in your case but you should be able to easily
check to see if there is proper grounding to the box.


Follow-up - the electrician put in the GFCI last week for $110. (Yeah I
know, the labor was $95 but hey it's not something I can do). Invoice
reads "changed existing outlet to GFI and hooked up ground". So maybe it
was there all along. BTW, no worry about the home inspector; the buyer
put this on their laundry list as a result of the completed inspection.
And the inspector just put on there "recommend installing GFCI". The
buyer is a young woman coming from an apartment, so is probably used to
a GFCI outlet being the norm. Oh well, the things she asked for (vs
things she could have) cost less than what the mortgage payments would
be until next spring, which is when I'd realistically expect another
offer. Thanks for the replies.

On Nov 10, 8:23*am, Lee B wrote:
propman wrote:
Lee B wrote:

paint, and have a new vanity installed. There is currently a two prong
outlet near the sink in the hall bath. I saw a couple of sites online
that says these can be GFI'd, but that they won't have an equipment
ground (whatever that is).

FWIW, so far no-one seems to have mentioned this but the two prongs
doesn't necessarily mean that the ground wire is missing....a lot of
older bathrooms had a two pronged razor outlet installed which used a
step-down transformer to lower the line voltage to a lower value (can't
recall the exact amount off hand). The cover plates for these units were
quite a bit larger than regular outlet cover plates....also curling
irons plugged into these outlets didn't work due to the reduced voltage..

This may or may not apply in your case but you should be able to easily
check to see if there is proper grounding to the box.

Follow-up - the electrician put in the GFCI last week for $110. (Yeah I
know, the labor was $95 but hey it's not something I can do). *Invoice
reads "changed existing outlet to GFI and hooked up ground". So maybe it
was there all along. BTW, no worry about the home inspector; the buyer
put this on their laundry list as a result of the completed inspection.
And the inspector just put on there "recommend installing GFCI". The
buyer is a young woman coming from an apartment, so is probably used to
a GFCI outlet being the norm. Oh well, the things she asked for (vs
things she could have) cost less than what the mortgage payments would
be until next spring, which is when I'd realistically expect another
offer. Thanks for the replies.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

re Yeah I know, the labor was $95 but hey it's not something I can
do)

Why not?

wrote:

OMG!

Here's a little secret: If you learn how to do stuff like this for
yourself, you'll save so much money it's as if you got a HUGE raise at
work.

Next time you are about to hire someone to do something that you don't
think you can do yourself, try this... Go to google.com and search for
help. If you had searched for: "replacing an outlet", you would have
found many DIY websites with detailed instructions, diagrams and
photos of how to replace an outlet. It is extremely easy to do.



The key might be "and hooked up ground." That's not always easy to do
with old wiring (he may have needed to run a ground wire back to the
fusebox.) Also the old box may have been too small or too full of
wires for a GFCI device to fit. (or maybe it was a simple 5 minute job)

My problem is I know I can do anything myself (eventually) and I
underestimate all the complications I'll run into :-)

Bob


Bob