I am trying to reroute my upstairs bathroom pipes away from the
exterior wall (actually an enclosed space behind a kneewall).
They currently run in an inside (room dividing) wall until they hit
the rear wall, behind which is the "crawlspace" open to the rafters
and such. The pipes froze once back there, and its a horrible place to
work in (mice love it) so I want the pipes out of there. Anyway they
turn that corner and then branch in the "crawl space" to the toilet
and bathtub. Below this bathroom and crawl space there is a false
ceiling, that I would like to run the pipes through instead.


But the only way to do that is to drop them straight down inside that
interior wall until they clear the joists below, then running them
under those joists above the false ceiling to where they need to go.
Going through the joists would be preferable, but I cant see how it
can be done-with 16" centers I dont see how to drill through them. But
the hardest part of all is just getting the pipes down to where I can
see them and work with them. Directly below the wall they are in,
there is an extension of that wall into the upper foot and half of the
lower level. This forms one "side" that the false ceiling is hung
from. Its like they knocked out a wall and left just the upper
portion. Does this make any sense? Its hard to describe. But I just
cant see how I can get the pipes down through that so they are below
joist level, without demolishing part of that wall so I can see wtf
I'm doing. Any ideas? I'd sure like to avoid calling a plumber but I
may have to...

Joe wrote:
I am trying to reroute my upstairs bathroom pipes away from the
exterior wall (actually an enclosed space behind a kneewall).
They currently run in an inside (room dividing) wall until they hit
the rear wall, behind which is the "crawlspace" open to the rafters
and such. The pipes froze once back there, and its a horrible place to
work in (mice love it) so I want the pipes out of there. Anyway they
turn that corner and then branch in the "crawl space" to the toilet
and bathtub. Below this bathroom and crawl space there is a false
ceiling, that I would like to run the pipes through instead.


But the only way to do that is to drop them straight down inside that
interior wall until they clear the joists below, then running them
under those joists above the false ceiling to where they need to go.
Going through the joists would be preferable, but I cant see how it
can be done-with 16" centers I dont see how to drill through them. But
the hardest part of all is just getting the pipes down to where I can
see them and work with them. Directly below the wall they are in,
there is an extension of that wall into the upper foot and half of the
lower level. This forms one "side" that the false ceiling is hung
from. Its like they knocked out a wall and left just the upper
portion. Does this make any sense? Its hard to describe. But I just
cant see how I can get the pipes down through that so they are below
joist level, without demolishing part of that wall so I can see wtf
I'm doing. Any ideas? I'd sure like to avoid calling a plumber but I
may have to...
Hi,
How about insulating the space/pipe with spray foam?

On Oct 31, 12:19*pm, Tony Hwang wrote:
Joe wrote:
I am trying to reroute my upstairs bathroom pipes away from the
exterior wall (actually an enclosed space behind a kneewall).
They currently run in an inside (room dividing) wall until they hit
the rear wall, behind which is the "crawlspace" open to the rafters
and such. The pipes froze once back there, and its a horrible place to
work in (mice love it) so I want the pipes out of there. Anyway they
turn that corner and then branch in the "crawl space" to the toilet
and bathtub. Below this bathroom and crawl space there is a false
ceiling, that I would like to run the pipes through instead.

But the only way to do that is to drop them straight down inside that
interior wall until they clear the joists below, then running them
under those joists above the false ceiling to where they need to go.
Going through the joists would be preferable, but I cant see how it
can be done-with 16" centers I dont see how to drill through them. But
the hardest part of all is just getting the pipes down to where I can
see them and work with them. Directly below the wall they are in,
there is an extension of that wall into the upper foot and half of the
lower level. This forms one "side" that the false ceiling is hung
from. Its like they knocked out a wall and left just the upper
portion. Does this make any sense? Its hard to describe. But I just
cant see how I can get the pipes down through that so they are below
joist level, without demolishing part of that wall so I can see wtf
I'm doing. Any ideas? I'd sure like to avoid calling a plumber but I
may have to...

Hi,
How about insulating the space/pipe with spray foam?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Sounds like a lot cheaper and easier solution. They even have
extender poles so you can put a spray can at the end of a 4' pole and
control it by your hand to reach into spaces that you can't get
directly to. Paint stores carry them, but anything that has a
standard top will fit into these extender poles. If you can get
within 4' of where you need to spray the insulation, the foam in a can
is great. Don't get the super expanding foam though, as it really has
a lot of force when it expands and it might bend/break/crack a wall.

On Oct 31, 12:52*pm, "hr(bob) "
wrote:
On Oct 31, 12:19*pm, Tony Hwang wrote:



Joe wrote:
I am trying to reroute my upstairs bathroom pipes away from the
exterior wall (actually an enclosed space behind a kneewall).
They currently run in an inside (room dividing) wall until they hit
the rear wall, behind which is the "crawlspace" open to the rafters
and such. The pipes froze once back there, and its a horrible place to
work in (mice love it) so I want the pipes out of there. Anyway they
turn that corner and then branch in the "crawl space" to the toilet
and bathtub. Below this bathroom and crawl space there is a false
ceiling, that I would like to run the pipes through instead.

But the only way to do that is to drop them straight down inside that
interior wall until they clear the joists below, then running them
under those joists above the false ceiling to where they need to go.
Going through the joists would be preferable, but I cant see how it
can be done-with 16" centers I dont see how to drill through them. But
the hardest part of all is just getting the pipes down to where I can
see them and work with them. Directly below the wall they are in,
there is an extension of that wall into the upper foot and half of the
lower level. This forms one "side" that the false ceiling is hung
from. Its like they knocked out a wall and left just the upper
portion. Does this make any sense? Its hard to describe. But I just
cant see how I can get the pipes down through that so they are below
joist level, without demolishing part of that wall so I can see wtf
I'm doing. Any ideas? I'd sure like to avoid calling a plumber but I
may have to...

Hi,
How about insulating the space/pipe with spray foam?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Sounds like a lot cheaper and easier solution. *They even have
extender poles so you can put a spray can at the end of a 4' pole and
control it by your hand to reach into spaces that you can't get
directly to. *Paint stores carry them, but anything that has a
standard top will fit into these extender poles. *If you can get
within 4' of where you need to spray the insulation, the foam in a can
is great. *Don't get the super expanding foam though, as it really has
a lot of force when it expands and it might bend/break/crack a wall.



Well the full space is quite large, so I dont know how practical that
would be....and what do I do if I have to get in there for some reason
and its filled with foam? I'm leary of non-reversibility.


There is one other possibility which might be easy but ugly-I could
run the pipes above the floor, along the inside of the outside wall
(this would be behind the toilet) and then under the tub to its
faucet, but this would leave about 2' of pipe just dangling out
there. This doesnt bother me but it might bother a potential buyer...

On Oct 31, 12:52*pm, "hr(bob) "
wrote:
On Oct 31, 12:19*pm, Tony Hwang wrote:



Joe wrote:
I am trying to reroute my upstairs bathroom pipes away from the
exterior wall (actually an enclosed space behind a kneewall).
They currently run in an inside (room dividing) wall until they hit
the rear wall, behind which is the "crawlspace" open to the rafters
and such. The pipes froze once back there, and its a horrible place to
work in (mice love it) so I want the pipes out of there. Anyway they
turn that corner and then branch in the "crawl space" to the toilet
and bathtub. Below this bathroom and crawl space there is a false
ceiling, that I would like to run the pipes through instead.

But the only way to do that is to drop them straight down inside that
interior wall until they clear the joists below, then running them
under those joists above the false ceiling to where they need to go.
Going through the joists would be preferable, but I cant see how it
can be done-with 16" centers I dont see how to drill through them. But
the hardest part of all is just getting the pipes down to where I can
see them and work with them. Directly below the wall they are in,
there is an extension of that wall into the upper foot and half of the
lower level. This forms one "side" that the false ceiling is hung
from. Its like they knocked out a wall and left just the upper
portion. Does this make any sense? Its hard to describe. But I just
cant see how I can get the pipes down through that so they are below
joist level, without demolishing part of that wall so I can see wtf
I'm doing. Any ideas? I'd sure like to avoid calling a plumber but I
may have to...

Hi,
How about insulating the space/pipe with spray foam?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Sounds like a lot cheaper and easier solution. *They even have
extender poles so you can put a spray can at the end of a 4' pole and
control it by your hand to reach into spaces that you can't get
directly to. *Paint stores carry them, but anything that has a
standard top will fit into these extender poles. *If you can get
within 4' of where you need to spray the insulation, the foam in a can
is great. *Don't get the super expanding foam though, as it really has
a lot of force when it expands and it might bend/break/crack a wall.

I spose I should elaborate on the space...its the space formed by the
narrower second floor and having a steep pitched roof. The space is
quite large. The roof is insulated, but probably not insulated well
enough. Thats another problem but not one i can tackle at the moment.
If my heat goes out, any pipes in there are at risk of freezing
because its the coldest part of my house, even if they are extra
insulated. It goes to 40 below here and I dont think pipes in outside
walls are even legal, or at the very least not recommended...I do not
want another broken pipe....

On Oct 31, 3:33*pm, Joe wrote:
On Oct 31, 12:52*pm, "hr(bob) "
wrote:



On Oct 31, 12:19*pm, Tony Hwang wrote:

Joe wrote:
I am trying to reroute my upstairs bathroom pipes away from the
exterior wall (actually an enclosed space behind a kneewall).
They currently run in an inside (room dividing) wall until they hit
the rear wall, behind which is the "crawlspace" open to the rafters
and such. The pipes froze once back there, and its a horrible place to
work in (mice love it) so I want the pipes out of there. Anyway they
turn that corner and then branch in the "crawl space" to the toilet
and bathtub. Below this bathroom and crawl space there is a false
ceiling, that I would like to run the pipes through instead.

But the only way to do that is to drop them straight down inside that
interior wall until they clear the joists below, then running them
under those joists above the false ceiling to where they need to go..
Going through the joists would be preferable, but I cant see how it
can be done-with 16" centers I dont see how to drill through them. But
the hardest part of all is just getting the pipes down to where I can
see them and work with them. Directly below the wall they are in,
there is an extension of that wall into the upper foot and half of the
lower level. This forms one "side" that the false ceiling is hung
from. Its like they knocked out a wall and left just the upper
portion. Does this make any sense? Its hard to describe. But I just
cant see how I can get the pipes down through that so they are below
joist level, without demolishing part of that wall so I can see wtf
I'm doing. Any ideas? I'd sure like to avoid calling a plumber but I
may have to...

Hi,
How about insulating the space/pipe with spray foam?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Sounds like a lot cheaper and easier solution. *They even have
extender poles so you can put a spray can at the end of a 4' pole and
control it by your hand to reach into spaces that you can't get
directly to. *Paint stores carry them, but anything that has a
standard top will fit into these extender poles. *If you can get
within 4' of where you need to spray the insulation, the foam in a can
is great. *Don't get the super expanding foam though, as it really has
a lot of force when it expands and it might bend/break/crack a wall.

I spose I should elaborate on the space...its the space formed by the
narrower second floor and having a steep pitched roof. The space is
quite large. The roof is insulated, but probably not insulated well
enough. Thats another problem but not one i can tackle at the moment.
If my heat goes out, any pipes in there are at risk of freezing
because its the coldest part of my house, even if they are extra
insulated. It goes to 40 below here and I dont think pipes in outside
walls are even legal, or at the very least not recommended...I do not
want another broken pipe....

Define pipe. If you are talking about copper, you might want to look
into PEX. If you have a run of PEX without any fittings it can freeze
without damaging it. The PEX plastic memory will return the tubing to
its original size, and it has more than enough stretchability to
accommodate freezing water. Of course you won't have water while the
pipe is frozen, but you also won't have burst pipe, flooding and
repair work.

R

On Oct 31, 2:41*pm, RicodJour wrote:
On Oct 31, 3:33*pm, Joe wrote:



On Oct 31, 12:52*pm, "hr(bob) "
wrote:

On Oct 31, 12:19*pm, Tony Hwang wrote:

Joe wrote:
I am trying to reroute my upstairs bathroom pipes away from the
exterior wall (actually an enclosed space behind a kneewall).
They currently run in an inside (room dividing) wall until they hit
the rear wall, behind which is the "crawlspace" open to the rafters
and such. The pipes froze once back there, and its a horrible place to
work in (mice love it) so I want the pipes out of there. Anyway they
turn that corner and then branch in the "crawl space" to the toilet
and bathtub. Below this bathroom and crawl space there is a false
ceiling, that I would like to run the pipes through instead.

But the only way to do that is to drop them straight down inside that
interior wall until they clear the joists below, then running them
under those joists above the false ceiling to where they need to go.
Going through the joists would be preferable, but I cant see how it
can be done-with 16" centers I dont see how to drill through them.. But
the hardest part of all is just getting the pipes down to where I can
see them and work with them. Directly below the wall they are in,
there is an extension of that wall into the upper foot and half of the
lower level. This forms one "side" that the false ceiling is hung
from. Its like they knocked out a wall and left just the upper
portion. Does this make any sense? Its hard to describe. But I just
cant see how I can get the pipes down through that so they are below
joist level, without demolishing part of that wall so I can see wtf
I'm doing. Any ideas? I'd sure like to avoid calling a plumber but I
may have to...

Hi,
How about insulating the space/pipe with spray foam?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Sounds like a lot cheaper and easier solution. *They even have
extender poles so you can put a spray can at the end of a 4' pole and
control it by your hand to reach into spaces that you can't get
directly to. *Paint stores carry them, but anything that has a
standard top will fit into these extender poles. *If you can get
within 4' of where you need to spray the insulation, the foam in a can
is great. *Don't get the super expanding foam though, as it really has
a lot of force when it expands and it might bend/break/crack a wall.

I spose I should elaborate on the space...its the space formed by the
narrower second floor and having a steep pitched roof. The space is
quite large. The roof is insulated, but probably not insulated well
enough. Thats another problem but not one i can tackle at the moment.
If my heat goes out, any pipes in there are at risk of freezing
because its the coldest part of my house, even if they are extra
insulated. It goes to 40 below here and I dont think pipes in outside
walls are even legal, or at the very least not recommended...I do not
want another broken pipe....

Define pipe. If you are talking about copper, you might want to look
into PEX. *If you have a run of PEX without any fittings it can freeze
without damaging it. *The PEX plastic memory will return the tubing to
its original size, and it has more than enough stretchability to
accommodate freezing water. *Of course you won't have water while the
pipe is frozen, but you also won't have burst pipe, flooding and
repair work.

R

Well I was planning to use PVC for the reroute, but existing pipes are
copper.

Perhaps I havent emphasized this part enough: I really dont want to
work in that space. Its nasty nasty nasty from all the rodents that
have lived there for 3 years since this was built, and I have to
slither in on my belly. I really want to have the pipes go elsewhere
so I never ever (ever!) have to go in there again.

On Oct 31, 3:00*pm, Joe wrote:
On Oct 31, 2:41*pm, RicodJour wrote:



On Oct 31, 3:33*pm, Joe wrote:

On Oct 31, 12:52*pm, "hr(bob) "
wrote:

On Oct 31, 12:19*pm, Tony Hwang wrote:

Joe wrote:
I am trying to reroute my upstairs bathroom pipes away from the
exterior wall (actually an enclosed space behind a kneewall).
They currently run in an inside (room dividing) wall until they hit
the rear wall, behind which is the "crawlspace" open to the rafters
and such. The pipes froze once back there, and its a horrible place to
work in (mice love it) so I want the pipes out of there. Anyway they
turn that corner and then branch in the "crawl space" to the toilet
and bathtub. Below this bathroom and crawl space there is a false
ceiling, that I would like to run the pipes through instead.

But the only way to do that is to drop them straight down inside that
interior wall until they clear the joists below, then running them
under those joists above the false ceiling to where they need to go.
Going through the joists would be preferable, but I cant see how it
can be done-with 16" centers I dont see how to drill through them. But
the hardest part of all is just getting the pipes down to where I can
see them and work with them. Directly below the wall they are in,
there is an extension of that wall into the upper foot and half of the
lower level. This forms one "side" that the false ceiling is hung
from. Its like they knocked out a wall and left just the upper
portion. Does this make any sense? Its hard to describe. But I just
cant see how I can get the pipes down through that so they are below
joist level, without demolishing part of that wall so I can see wtf
I'm doing. Any ideas? I'd sure like to avoid calling a plumber but I
may have to...

Hi,
How about insulating the space/pipe with spray foam?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Sounds like a lot cheaper and easier solution. *They even have
extender poles so you can put a spray can at the end of a 4' pole and
control it by your hand to reach into spaces that you can't get
directly to. *Paint stores carry them, but anything that has a
standard top will fit into these extender poles. *If you can get
within 4' of where you need to spray the insulation, the foam in a can
is great. *Don't get the super expanding foam though, as it really has
a lot of force when it expands and it might bend/break/crack a wall..

I spose I should elaborate on the space...its the space formed by the
narrower second floor and having a steep pitched roof. The space is
quite large. The roof is insulated, but probably not insulated well
enough. Thats another problem but not one i can tackle at the moment.
If my heat goes out, any pipes in there are at risk of freezing
because its the coldest part of my house, even if they are extra
insulated. It goes to 40 below here and I dont think pipes in outside
walls are even legal, or at the very least not recommended...I do not
want another broken pipe....

Define pipe. If you are talking about copper, you might want to look
into PEX. *If you have a run of PEX without any fittings it can freeze
without damaging it. *The PEX plastic memory will return the tubing to
its original size, and it has more than enough stretchability to
accommodate freezing water. *Of course you won't have water while the
pipe is frozen, but you also won't have burst pipe, flooding and
repair work.

R

Well I was planning to use PVC for the reroute, but existing pipes are
copper.

Perhaps I havent emphasized this part enough: I really dont want to
work in that space. Its nasty nasty nasty from all the rodents that
have lived there for 3 years since this was built, and I have to
slither in on my belly. I really want to have the pipes go elsewhere
so I never ever (ever!) have to go in there again.

But having said that, if I were to run the pipes through there again
for lack of other practical options I could minimize my time in there
by running a long line of pex. In fact I might not have to go in any
farther than my head and shoulders. So that might work...

"Joe" wrote in message
...

But the only way to do that is to drop them straight down inside that
interior wall until they clear the joists below, then running them
under those joists above the false ceiling to where they need to go.
Going through the joists would be preferable, but I cant see how it
can be done-with 16" centers I dont see how to drill through them.

I once had a similar problem. try a right angle adapter
http://www.google.com/products?clien...ed=0CCMQrQQwAA

Or Google right angle drill adapter if the link is too cumbersome for your
browser

Charlie

On Oct 31, 4:05*pm, Joe wrote:
On Oct 31, 3:00*pm, Joe wrote:



On Oct 31, 2:41*pm, RicodJour wrote:

On Oct 31, 3:33*pm, Joe wrote:

On Oct 31, 12:52*pm, "hr(bob) "
wrote:

On Oct 31, 12:19*pm, Tony Hwang wrote:

Joe wrote:
I am trying to reroute my upstairs bathroom pipes away from the
exterior wall (actually an enclosed space behind a kneewall).
They currently run in an inside (room dividing) wall until they hit
the rear wall, behind which is the "crawlspace" open to the rafters
and such. The pipes froze once back there, and its a horrible place to
work in (mice love it) so I want the pipes out of there. Anyway they
turn that corner and then branch in the "crawl space" to the toilet
and bathtub. Below this bathroom and crawl space there is a false
ceiling, that I would like to run the pipes through instead.

But the only way to do that is to drop them straight down inside that
interior wall until they clear the joists below, then running them
under those joists above the false ceiling to where they need to go.
Going through the joists would be preferable, but I cant see how it
can be done-with 16" centers I dont see how to drill through them. But
the hardest part of all is just getting the pipes down to where I can
see them and work with them. Directly below the wall they are in,
there is an extension of that wall into the upper foot and half of the
lower level. This forms one "side" that the false ceiling is hung
from. Its like they knocked out a wall and left just the upper
portion. Does this make any sense? Its hard to describe. But I just
cant see how I can get the pipes down through that so they are below
joist level, without demolishing part of that wall so I can see wtf
I'm doing. Any ideas? I'd sure like to avoid calling a plumber but I
may have to...

Hi,
How about insulating the space/pipe with spray foam?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Sounds like a lot cheaper and easier solution. *They even have
extender poles so you can put a spray can at the end of a 4' pole and
control it by your hand to reach into spaces that you can't get
directly to. *Paint stores carry them, but anything that has a
standard top will fit into these extender poles. *If you can get
within 4' of where you need to spray the insulation, the foam in a can
is great. *Don't get the super expanding foam though, as it really has
a lot of force when it expands and it might bend/break/crack a wall.

I spose I should elaborate on the space...its the space formed by the
narrower second floor and having a steep pitched roof. The space is
quite large. The roof is insulated, but probably not insulated well
enough. Thats another problem but not one i can tackle at the moment.

Joe wrote:
On Oct 31, 3:00 pm, Joe wrote:
On Oct 31, 2:41 pm, RicodJour wrote:



On Oct 31, 3:33 pm, Joe wrote:

On Oct 31, 12:52 pm, "hr(bob) "
wrote:

On Oct 31, 12:19 pm, Tony Hwang wrote:

Joe wrote:
I am trying to reroute my upstairs bathroom pipes away
from the exterior wall (actually an enclosed space behind
a kneewall).
They currently run in an inside (room dividing) wall
until they hit the rear wall, behind which is the
"crawlspace" open to the rafters and such. The pipes
froze once back there, and its a horrible place to work
in (mice love it) so I want the pipes out of there.
Anyway they turn that corner and then branch in the
"crawl space" to the toilet and bathtub. Below this
bathroom and crawl space there is a false ceiling, that I
would like to run the pipes through instead.

But the only way to do that is to drop them straight down
inside that interior wall until they clear the joists
below, then running them under those joists above the
false ceiling to where they need to go. Going through the
joists would be preferable, but I cant see how it can be
done-with 16" centers I dont see how to drill through
them. But the hardest part of all is just getting the
pipes down to where I can see them and work with them.
Directly below the wall they are in, there is an
extension of that wall into the upper foot and half of
the lower level. This forms one "side" that the false
ceiling is hung from. Its like they knocked out a wall
and left just the upper portion. Does this make any
sense? Its hard to describe. But I just cant see how I
can get the pipes down through that so they are below
joist level, without demolishing part of that wall so I
can see wtf I'm doing. Any ideas? I'd sure like to avoid
calling a plumber but I may have to...

Hi,
How about insulating the space/pipe with spray foam?- Hide
quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Sounds like a lot cheaper and easier solution. They even have
extender poles so you can put a spray can at the end of a 4'
pole and control it by your hand to reach into spaces that
you can't get directly to. Paint stores carry them, but
anything that has a standard top will fit into these extender
poles. If you can get within 4' of where you need to spray
the insulation, the foam in a can is great. Don't get the
super expanding foam though, as it really has a lot of force
when it expands and it might bend/break/crack a wall.

I spose I should elaborate on the space...its the space formed
by the narrower second floor and having a steep pitched roof.
The space is quite large. The roof is insulated, but probably
not insulated well enough. Thats another problem but not one i
can tackle at the moment. If my heat goes out, any pipes in
there are at risk of freezing because its the coldest part of
my house, even if they are extra insulated. It goes to 40 below
here and I dont think pipes in outside walls are even legal, or
at the very least not recommended...I do not want another
broken pipe....

Define pipe. If you are talking about copper, you might want to
look into PEX. If you have a run of PEX without any fittings it
can freeze without damaging it. The PEX plastic memory will
return the tubing to its original size, and it has more than
enough stretchability to accommodate freezing water. Of course
you won't have water while the pipe is frozen, but you also won't
have burst pipe, flooding and repair work.

R

Well I was planning to use PVC for the reroute, but existing pipes
are copper.

Perhaps I havent emphasized this part enough: I really dont want to
work in that space. Its nasty nasty nasty from all the rodents that
have lived there for 3 years since this was built, and I have to
slither in on my belly. I really want to have the pipes go elsewhere
so I never ever (ever!) have to go in there again.

But having said that, if I were to run the pipes through there again
for lack of other practical options I could minimize my time in there
by running a long line of pex. In fact I might not have to go in any
farther than my head and shoulders. So that might work...

Pex may be a problem with an area overrun with mice, they may chew into the
pipe causing leaks. It sounds like you also need to do some serious
maintenance to seal all the leaks in the exterior that allow the mice to get
in.
Plus an adult cat on patrol. Just the presence of a cat will often deter
mice from residing in a building.

Joe wrote:
I am trying to reroute my upstairs bathroom pipes away from the
exterior wall (actually an enclosed space behind a kneewall).
They currently run in an inside (room dividing) wall until they hit
the rear wall, behind which is the "crawlspace" open to the rafters
and such. The pipes froze once back there, and its a horrible place to
work in (mice love it) so I want the pipes out of there. Anyway they
turn that corner and then branch in the "crawl space" to the toilet
and bathtub. Below this bathroom and crawl space there is a false
ceiling, that I would like to run the pipes through instead.


But the only way to do that is to drop them straight down inside that
interior wall until they clear the joists below, then running them
under those joists above the false ceiling to where they need to go.
Going through the joists would be preferable, but I cant see how it
can be done-with 16" centers I dont see how to drill through them. But
the hardest part of all is just getting the pipes down to where I can
see them and work with them. Directly below the wall they are in,
there is an extension of that wall into the upper foot and half of the
lower level. This forms one "side" that the false ceiling is hung
from. Its like they knocked out a wall and left just the upper
portion. Does this make any sense? Its hard to describe. But I just
cant see how I can get the pipes down through that so they are below
joist level, without demolishing part of that wall so I can see wtf
I'm doing. Any ideas? I'd sure like to avoid calling a plumber but I
may have to...

You may be trying to solve the wrong problem. Consider:

* Insulating the existing pipes.
* Heating the area in which the pipes live.
* Letting the water run in sub-freezing weather.
* Putting expansion devices - like a rubber boot - on the existing pipes.

"Joe" wrote in message,

There is one other possibility which might be easy but ugly-I could
run the pipes above the floor, along the inside of the outside wall
(this would be behind the toilet) and then under the tub to its
faucet, but this would leave about 2' of pipe just dangling out
there. This doesnt bother me but it might bother a potential buyer...
---------------------

Based on everything else you have written so far, I think you should
probably just go ahead and do that. It seems like you really want the pipes
on the inside and accessible, and that would solve both of those issues. A
pipe along the wall, near the floor, behind the toilet seems like nothing to
me. You could paint the pipe(s) the same color as the wall or baseboard and
it will look fine. You said, "under the tub" -- do you mean under an
old-fashioned claw foot type of tub?

As far as buyers, I doubt that 2 feet of pipe going along the wall near the
floor behind the toilet is going to make or break a sale. And, since the
temp goes down to 40 below in your area, some buyers may like the idea that
the pipe will be inside and accessibole for the same reasons that you do.

And, if you are really concerned about buyers, you really need to figure out
a way to get rid of the mice and rodent droppings that are infesting the
area that you don't want to go into. A home inspector will find that huge
(in my opinion) problem if that area has an access door where he/she can
enter or look into the space.

Good luck.

On Nov 1, 5:37*pm, "MarkAllen1" wrote:
"Joe" wrote in message,

There is one other possibility which might be easy but ugly-I could
run the pipes above the floor, along the inside of the outside wall
(this would be behind the toilet) and then under the tub to its
faucet, but this would leave about 2' of pipe just dangling out
there. *This doesnt bother me but it might bother a potential buyer...
---------------------

Based on everything else you have written so far, I think you should
probably just go ahead and do that. *It seems like you really want the pipes
on the inside and accessible, and that would solve both of those issues. *A
pipe along the wall, near the floor, behind the toilet seems like nothing to
me. *You could paint the pipe(s) the same color as the wall or baseboard and
it will look fine. *You said, "under the tub" -- do you mean under an
old-fashioned claw foot type of tub?

No, its a regular recessed tub. I would have to drill a hole in the
dividing wall at one end, then run the pipes under it to the faucet at
the far side.


As far as buyers, I doubt that 2 feet of pipe going along the wall near the
floor behind the toilet is going to make or break a sale. *And, since the
temp goes down to 40 below in your area, some buyers may like the idea that
the pipe will be inside and accessibole for the same reasons that you do.

And, if you are really concerned about buyers, you really need to figure out
a way to get rid of the mice and rodent droppings that are infesting the
area that you don't want to go into. *A home inspector will find that huge
(in my opinion) problem if that area has an access door where he/she can
enter or look into the space.

Good luck.

The rodent area is only visible now because I knocked a section of
drywall out to get at the pipes. Its going to get sealed up again.
As for heating that area as was suggested above, I dont think that is
desirable. It would lead to roof melting and ice dams...more problems.
The area wasnt meant to be heated.

I think I will probably try to run the pipes through the room and
under the tub and see how it goes. If it doesnt work for some reason
it will only be a small patch.