There no doubt that houses are getting "smarter" all the time. More and
more new homes are coming with goodies like alarm systems, intelligent
controls for HVAC, pools and sprinklers and even devices to monitor power
consumption in real time.

I've seen a lot of very expensive and complex systems to manage the
functions of "smart homes" but I've never come across something as small,
powerful and inexpensive as this unit:

http://www.cainetworks.com/products/webcontrol/

I've cross-posted this in comp.home.automation and alt.home.repair because
I've seen a lot of posts about monitoring house conditions like temperature
remotely in both groups. I was first alerted to the product in a thread
about USB home control in CHA. In that thread:

_USB module for monitoring multiple on/off switches_

http://groups.google.com/group/comp....n/off+switches

Marc Hult recommended this device instead as a much more practical way to
"communicate" with your house remotely than USB devices connected to a PC.

It took me a while to find the secret URL and I don't give cainetworks an A+
for website design - this product doesn't even show up on their "Product
List." They seem to be a server load balancing company and I would guess
they built this thing for themselves as a service tool and then began to
realize it had other applications.

I have no interest in the company, other than as a customer and it's too
early to tell whether I am a happy customer or not!

WebControl interests me for a number of reasons: it can automagically send
emails to a PC or a cell phone when a looked-for condition occurs, assuming
you've got a constant internet connection. This condition could be a
furnace failure, an out-of-bounds temperature, water on the floor or any
number of other events that can sensed electronically.

It's got plenty of inputs - it can accommodate a Honeywell humidity sensor,
up to eight Maxim DS1822 /DS18B20 12bit 1 wire temperature sensors, eight
digital inputs, three analog inputs and 20 different timers. It seems from
my Google searches that these are popular with cigar lovers (to keep their
treasures at constant temps and humidity) and in-home horticulturists
growing various "herbs."

My first project will be a sensing project, too: I'm hoping to use it to
continually monitor how much power the whole house uses in real-time. I've
read about a number of test projects using "smart meters" and they all
pretty much say the same thing: People who know how much power they are
using at any one moment will end up reducing their average monthly
consumption.

I've got some tiny current sensors that I will attach to the main power
feeds to the circuit panel, hopefully so artfully that an inspector might
never notice they're there. (Yes, I know the evils of mixing high and low
voltage gear and I don't recommend anyone but an insane person with total
contempt for life and the law even contemplate copying my actions!)

These tiny (1/4" sq.) Hall-Effect (HE) sensors generate a small electric
current proportional (well, proportional enough for me) to the current
flowing into the house from the main feeders. This unit should enable me to
see the current current use from any PC on the home network. I should even
be able to rig up an LED bargraph display that shows the real-time power
consumption of the house with another $2 worth of parts.

The unit has three 3 1023 bit analog inputs (0-10v) that should be able to
accurately measure the HE sensor voltage level and take an action (light a
bargraph LED, ring a chime, etc) when the voltage becomes greater than a
pre-determined level. Perhaps the hardest part is going to be accurately
matching the output level of the sensor to the actual home electrical power
consumed. If I can't get a helper with a walkie talkie, I can temporarily
mount a wireless CCTV cam outside pointing at the electric meter so I can
tabulate meter readings and how they correspond to the sensor output as I
add more and more loads. I will start with all the breakers off, but with
lights, etc. left on so that as I flip each breaker on, the load increases.
That way I should have a scale that gives me a pretty good idea of the juice
flowing through the circuit panel.

I'm going to make notes as I go along, paying particular attention to the
level of technical skill required to implement it. I'm afraid it's going to
be high enough to make it a techie-only solution. But looking through the
manual

http://www.cainetworks.com/manuals/w...ide2-03-00.pdf

gives me at least a little hope that this unit may be simple enough that
with a little advice, a fairly low-tech user could implement a simple system
that could, for example, send them an email if their freezer or refrigerator
temperature rises out of the food safety zone. Ironically, that's why I
ordered the board (my fridge tripped the GFCI) but once I read the manual
and the specs, I realized it would probably make a good and cheap whole
house power monitor.

Previously, devices like this cost close to $200, so to my mind it's a great
bargain.

The part that I haven't quite figured out about whole house power monitoring
is this: What's the best way to notify residents that the house is burning
kilowatts without being so intrusive that they'll just shut it off? There
has to be some sort of override, too, because there will be some days in the
dead of a very cold winter that the consumption will peak.

--
Bobby G.

"Robert Green" wrote in message
...
There no doubt that houses are getting "smarter" all the time. More and
more new homes are coming with goodies like alarm systems, intelligent
controls for HVAC, pools and sprinklers and even devices to monitor power
consumption in real time.

I've seen a lot of very expensive and complex systems to manage the
functions of "smart homes" but I've never come across something as small,
powerful and inexpensive as this unit:

http://www.cainetworks.com/products/webcontrol/

I've cross-posted this in comp.home.automation and alt.home.repair because
I've seen a lot of posts about monitoring house conditions like
temperature
remotely in both groups. I was first alerted to the product in a thread
about USB home control in CHA. In that thread:

_USB module for monitoring multiple on/off switches_

http://groups.google.com/group/comp....n/off+switches

Marc Hult recommended this device instead as a much more practical way to
"communicate" with your house remotely than USB devices connected to a PC.

It took me a while to find the secret URL and I don't give cainetworks an
A+
for website design - this product doesn't even show up on their "Product
List." They seem to be a server load balancing company and I would guess
they built this thing for themselves as a service tool and then began to
realize it had other applications.

I have no interest in the company, other than as a customer and it's too
early to tell whether I am a happy customer or not!

WebControl interests me for a number of reasons: it can automagically
send
emails to a PC or a cell phone when a looked-for condition occurs,
assuming
you've got a constant internet connection. This condition could be a
furnace failure, an out-of-bounds temperature, water on the floor or any
number of other events that can sensed electronically.

It's got plenty of inputs - it can accommodate a Honeywell humidity
sensor,
up to eight Maxim DS1822 /DS18B20 12bit 1 wire temperature sensors, eight
digital inputs, three analog inputs and 20 different timers. It seems
from
my Google searches that these are popular with cigar lovers (to keep their
treasures at constant temps and humidity) and in-home horticulturists
growing various "herbs."

My first project will be a sensing project, too: I'm hoping to use it to
continually monitor how much power the whole house uses in real-time.
I've
read about a number of test projects using "smart meters" and they all
pretty much say the same thing: People who know how much power they are
using at any one moment will end up reducing their average monthly
consumption.

I've got some tiny current sensors that I will attach to the main power
feeds to the circuit panel, hopefully so artfully that an inspector might
never notice they're there. (Yes, I know the evils of mixing high and low
voltage gear and I don't recommend anyone but an insane person with total
contempt for life and the law even contemplate copying my actions!)

These tiny (1/4" sq.) Hall-Effect (HE) sensors generate a small electric
current proportional (well, proportional enough for me) to the current
flowing into the house from the main feeders. This unit should enable me
to
see the current current use from any PC on the home network. I should
even
be able to rig up an LED bargraph display that shows the real-time power
consumption of the house with another $2 worth of parts.

The unit has three 3 1023 bit analog inputs (0-10v) that should be able to
accurately measure the HE sensor voltage level and take an action (light a
bargraph LED, ring a chime, etc) when the voltage becomes greater than a
pre-determined level. Perhaps the hardest part is going to be accurately
matching the output level of the sensor to the actual home electrical
power
consumed. If I can't get a helper with a walkie talkie, I can
temporarily
mount a wireless CCTV cam outside pointing at the electric meter so I can
tabulate meter readings and how they correspond to the sensor output as I
add more and more loads. I will start with all the breakers off, but with
lights, etc. left on so that as I flip each breaker on, the load
increases.
That way I should have a scale that gives me a pretty good idea of the
juice
flowing through the circuit panel.

I'm going to make notes as I go along, paying particular attention to the
level of technical skill required to implement it. I'm afraid it's going
to
be high enough to make it a techie-only solution. But looking through the
manual

http://www.cainetworks.com/manuals/w...ide2-03-00.pdf

gives me at least a little hope that this unit may be simple enough that
with a little advice, a fairly low-tech user could implement a simple
system
that could, for example, send them an email if their freezer or
refrigerator
temperature rises out of the food safety zone. Ironically, that's why I
ordered the board (my fridge tripped the GFCI) but once I read the manual
and the specs, I realized it would probably make a good and cheap whole
house power monitor.

Previously, devices like this cost close to $200, so to my mind it's a
great
bargain.

The part that I haven't quite figured out about whole house power
monitoring
is this: What's the best way to notify residents that the house is
burning
kilowatts without being so intrusive that they'll just shut it off?
There
has to be some sort of override, too, because there will be some days in
the
dead of a very cold winter that the consumption will peak.


Wow, it does look really good - for lots of things. You never did say the
price nor does their web siet. What is the single unit price?

Jim

They want $49.84 plus about $10 for UPS in US.

It's $35 on Amazon. See
http://www.amazon.com/Webcontrol-Uni...34741&sr =8-1

Best,
Christopher

They want $49.84 plus about $10 for UPS in US.

It's $35 on Amazon. See
http://www.amazon.com/Webcontrol-Uni...34741&sr =8-1

Best,
Christopher

I just placed an order through Amazon and have recieved an email that it has
shipped. Looking forward to playing with this device.

Best,
Christopher

I just placed an order through Amazon and have recieved an email that it has
shipped. Looking forward to playing with this device.

Best,
Christopher

"Christopher Glaeser" wrote in message
...
I just placed an order through Amazon and have recieved an email that it
has
shipped. Looking forward to playing with this device.

Best,
Christopher

Me too! At $35 apiece, it's quite a deal. Especially considering the cost
and complexity of other web-smart home control devices out there that run in
the multi-hundred dollar range.

So far, I've got three different projects in mind for the two units I have:

1) Whole house power use tracking,
2) home monitoring and remote reporting (i.e. emailing my cellphone if the
the fridge blows a fuse or if the GFCI trips) and
3) a way to help my hard-of-hearing friend hear smoke alarms and doorbells
and phones ringing since my first attempt at a solution didn't work as well
as I had hoped.

As some in AHR might recall, after discovering my elderly friend couldn't
hear the typical high-pitched smoke alarm, I got him a one of the few low
frequency smoke alarms out on the market. What I didn't discover until
recently was that he spends most of his time wearing full cup, noise
cancelling headphones because he has such a hard time hearing the TV if
there's any background noise!!!!

With the web-control unit I am hoping to tie into the alarm sounder so that
if it goes off, the device will send me and others an email and will also
activate a "bass shaker" or some other sort of vibrational alert that I'll
put under his easy chair, where he spends most of his time recovering from
two TKRs (total knee replacements). I may also investigate creating a
little box to plug in between the headphones and his TV headphone jack that
will switch off the program sound track and switch in an alarm sound when
the device detects the smoke alarm, the doorbell or the phone has sounded.

I didn't order the chassis, partly because it costs almost half of what the
unit does! So I've been looking around for something to mount the board in.
I've found it fits perfectly in the clear plastic flip-top cases I've been
storing 3.5" floppies in, thus saving $15 for the case they sell (but
*don't* list on the Amazon site for some odd reason). As an added bonus,
I've cleaned out all the old floppies in my collection like Windows 3.1 and
Microsoft flight simulator. (-" Out with the old junk, in with the new!

I also discovered that the 16 pin IDC (insulation displacement connector)
the unit uses to access its analog and other ports is exactly the same size
as that long forgotten connector used to connect joystick ports to PC
motherboards (long before USB came along). It's so nice when my junk bin
yields up just what I need! It validates my packrat way of life. I
suggested to the vendor that they might want to make such additional parts
(and a suitable power supply) available for purchase directly from them,
rather then sending them off to Digikey or Mouser for the missing puzzle
piece.

I've unfortunately had to postpone my futzing around with the unit until the
leaves covering the front and back lawns disappear. (-: More to come! -
Eventually.

--
Bobby G.

"Christopher Glaeser" wrote in message
...
They want $49.84 plus about $10 for UPS in US.

It's $35 on Amazon. See

http://www.amazon.com/Webcontrol-Uni...34741&sr =8-1

Best,
Christopher

Thanks, Chris. I edited and re-edited the message so many times that I
somehow lost the Amazon URL. D'oh!

--
Bobby G.

On Oct 30, 5:34*am, "Robert Green" wrote:
There no doubt that houses are getting "smarter" all the time. *More and
more new homes are coming with goodies like alarm systems, intelligent
controls for HVAC, pools and sprinklers and even devices to monitor power
consumption in real time.

I've seen a lot of very expensive and complex systems to manage the
functions of "smart homes" but I've never come across something as small,
powerful and inexpensive as this unit:

http://www.cainetworks.com/products/webcontrol/

I've cross-posted this in comp.home.automation and alt.home.repair because
I've seen a lot of posts about monitoring house conditions like temperature
remotely in both groups. *I was first alerted to the product in a *thread
about USB home control in CHA. *In that thread:

_USB module for monitoring multiple on/off switches_

http://groups.google.com/group/comp....wse_thread/thr...

Marc Hult recommended this device instead as a much more practical way to
"communicate" with your house remotely than USB devices connected to a PC..

It took me a while to find the secret URL and I don't give cainetworks an A+
for website design - this product doesn't even show up on their "Product
List." *They seem to be a server load balancing company and I would guess
they built this thing for themselves as a service tool and then began to
realize it had other applications.

I have no interest in the company, other than as a customer and it's too
early to tell whether I am a happy customer or not!

WebControl interests me for a number of reasons: *it can automagically send
emails to a PC or a cell phone when a looked-for condition occurs, assuming
you've got a constant internet connection. *This condition could be a
furnace failure, an out-of-bounds temperature, water on the floor or any
number of other events that can sensed electronically.

It's got plenty of inputs - it can accommodate a Honeywell humidity sensor,
up to eight Maxim DS1822 /DS18B20 12bit 1 wire temperature sensors, eight
digital inputs, three analog inputs and 20 different timers. *It seems from
my Google searches that these are popular with cigar lovers (to keep their
treasures at constant temps and humidity) and in-home horticulturists
growing various "herbs."

My first project will be a sensing project, too: *I'm hoping to use it to
continually monitor how much power the whole house uses in real-time. *I've
read about a number of test projects using "smart meters" and they all
pretty much say the same thing: *People who know how much power they are
using at any one moment will end up reducing their average monthly
consumption.

I've got some tiny current sensors that I will attach to the main power
feeds to the circuit panel, hopefully so artfully that an inspector might
never notice they're there. *(Yes, I know the evils of mixing high and low
voltage gear and I don't recommend anyone but an insane person with total
contempt for life and the law even contemplate copying my actions!)

These tiny (1/4" sq.) Hall-Effect (HE) sensors generate a small electric
current proportional (well, proportional enough for me) to the current
flowing into the house from the main feeders. *This unit should enable me to
see the current current use from any PC on the home network. *I should even
be able to rig up an LED bargraph display that shows the real-time power
consumption of the house with another $2 worth of parts.

The unit has three 3 1023 bit analog inputs (0-10v) that should be able to
accurately measure the HE sensor voltage level and take an action (light a
bargraph LED, ring a chime, etc) when the voltage becomes greater than a
pre-determined level. *Perhaps the hardest part is going to be accurately
matching the output level of the sensor to the actual home electrical power
consumed. *If I can't get a helper with a walkie talkie, *I can temporarily
mount a wireless CCTV cam outside pointing at the electric meter so I can
tabulate meter readings and how they correspond to the sensor output as I
add more and more loads. *I will start with all the breakers off, but with
lights, etc. left on so that as I flip each breaker on, the load increases.
That way I should have a scale that gives me a pretty good idea of the juice
flowing through the circuit panel.

I'm going to make notes as I go along, paying particular attention to the
level of technical skill required to implement it. *I'm afraid it's going to
be high enough to make it a techie-only solution. *But looking through the
manual

http://www.cainetworks.com/manuals/w...lUserGuide2-03...

gives me at least a little hope that this unit may be simple enough that
with a little advice, a fairly low-tech user could implement a simple system
that could, for example, send them an email if their freezer or refrigerator
temperature rises out of the food safety zone. *Ironically, that's why I
ordered the board (my fridge tripped the GFCI) but once I read the manual
and the specs, I realized it would probably make a good and cheap whole
house power monitor.

Previously, devices like this cost close to $200, so to my mind it's a great
bargain.

The part that I haven't quite figured out about whole house power monitoring
is this: *What's the best way to notify residents that the house is burning
kilowatts without being so *intrusive that they'll just shut it off? *There
has to be some sort of override, too, because there will be some days in the
dead of a very cold winter that the consumption will peak.

--
Bobby G.

Anyway I can use it to monitor a vacation home 1200 miles away? I'm
not sure what this unit does.

Anyway I can use it to monitor a vacation home 1200 miles away? I'm
not sure what this unit does.

Yes, if the home is connected to the internet you could monitor it from a
browser virtually anywhere. However, you will need some hardware and
software experience. If you are not quite sure what this unit does based on
the posted description, then this may not be a good project for you.

Best,
Christopher

"Christopher Glaeser" wrote in message
...
Anyway I can use it to monitor a vacation home 1200 miles away? I'm
not sure what this unit does.

Yes, if the home is connected to the internet you could monitor it from a
browser virtually anywhere. However, you will need some hardware and
software experience. If you are not quite sure what this unit does based
on
the posted description, then this may not be a good project for you.

Best,
Christopher

Agreed. Thanks for fielding that question for me, Christopher. It's not
for someone who's not comfortable with soldering or circuit diagrams. As
you point out, you'd need some way to get to the internet to use it to
monitor your house remotely. An alternative I'm exploring is using an old
laptop PC and a modem or a electronic phone dialer to have the machine
dial-out using a plain old telephone line, which many second or vacation
homes have. Probably more of those kinds of homes have "always on"
telephone lines than "always" on internet connections.

But I'm not keen on a monitoring system that's got to establish a link v.
one that's got an internet link always available. I think reliability would
be too low. Another consideration is backup power. The device draws very
little standby current, and could easily be solar powered, but to be
effective, all other devices in the access chain have to be battery-backed.

The unit is best-suited for a tinkerer with some internet smarts, some
electronic smarts and a monitoring need. If you're not that kind of person,
I believe devices like the Sensaphone are a better fit:

http://www.sensaphone.com/sensaphone_400.php

Of course, when you find out what they sell for (or similar systems) you'll
realize why at least some of the gadgeteers among us are so thrilled to find
the "platform" for building your own version of the Sensaphone for $34.95.
Well, at least this gadgethead is.

The best way to think about the unit is as a tiny webserver that keeps track
of different conditions in the house and can take actions when those
conditions change or when a certain time has been reached or when a set
period of time has expired. The fact that it's network-enabled means that
you can buy incredibly cheap network hubs and connect the units to the
outside world or your home PCs without have to run busloads of sensor cables
all over the place.

I believe with the right (fairly cheap) gear, it will even run on a wireless
network and could be used to monitor an outbuilding's vitals without running
cable. One simple PC, netbook or smartphone could then use a browser and a
set of bookmarks to monitor each device on the net.

If my plans work out, I'll be able to access my network remotely and see the
current temps, humidity, alarm status, current power readings for the whole
house whenever I chose and have the unit send my phone an email when some
critical condition goes out of bounds.

For example, in the laundry room I want to monitor whether something's
fallen in the sink and had blocked the drain which would cause it to
overflow from running the clothes washer. I'd also want to measure the air
temperature in the dryer vent duct to make sure it wasn't too hot - an
indication of a blocked vent (we've got birds that are *determined* to nest
in there every spring. They've even pecked away wire screening to get in.

I'm even thinking of monitoring the washer so that clothes can presoak in
warm water for as long as the water is hotter than the ambient air. That
way, I wouldn't be tossing hot water down the drain until I'd squeezed some
of the BTUs it took to heat it back into the laundry room. I can also
monitor the floor drain to make sure it's not backing up, keep track of the
level in the sump pump and maybe even monitor the furnace and water heater
temperatures, too, to make sure they stay within bounds.

I think there's potential if a broad enough user community develops to reach
a broader audience as "pioneers" develop applications they are willing to
document well enough for less-capable readers to follow. As it stands,
there aren't many examples (one, I think) on their site to make it anything
but geek accessible. There's also the possibility of solderheads using this
board as the basis for project they could "kit out" and sell with all the
components pre-assembled and the steps carefully documented.

With that in mind, I am going to proceed slowly and write up and photograph
my projects as I create them since it's bound to make it easier for the next
person attempting to do something similar.

--
Bobby G.

On Oct 30, 4:34*am, "Robert Green" wrote:
There no doubt that houses are getting "smarter" all the time. *More and
more new homes are coming with goodies like alarm systems, intelligent
controls for HVAC, pools and sprinklers and even devices to monitor power
consumption in real time.

I've seen a lot of very expensive and complex systems to manage the
functions of "smart homes" but I've never come across something as small,
powerful and inexpensive as this unit:

http://www.cainetworks.com/products/webcontrol/

I've cross-posted this in comp.home.automation and alt.home.repair because
I've seen a lot of posts about monitoring house conditions like temperature
remotely in both groups. *I was first alerted to the product in a *thread
about USB home control in CHA. *In that thread:

_USB module for monitoring multiple on/off switches_

http://groups.google.com/group/comp....wse_thread/thr...

Marc Hult recommended this device instead as a much more practical way to
"communicate" with your house remotely than USB devices connected to a PC..

It took me a while to find the secret URL and I don't give cainetworks an A+
for website design - this product doesn't even show up on their "Product
List." *They seem to be a server load balancing company and I would guess
they built this thing for themselves as a service tool and then began to
realize it had other applications.

I have no interest in the company, other than as a customer and it's too
early to tell whether I am a happy customer or not!

WebControl interests me for a number of reasons: *it can automagically send
emails to a PC or a cell phone when a looked-for condition occurs, assuming
you've got a constant internet connection. *This condition could be a
furnace failure, an out-of-bounds temperature, water on the floor or any
number of other events that can sensed electronically.

It's got plenty of inputs - it can accommodate a Honeywell humidity sensor,
up to eight Maxim DS1822 /DS18B20 12bit 1 wire temperature sensors, eight
digital inputs, three analog inputs and 20 different timers. *It seems from
my Google searches that these are popular with cigar lovers (to keep their
treasures at constant temps and humidity) and in-home horticulturists
growing various "herbs."

My first project will be a sensing project, too: *I'm hoping to use it to
continually monitor how much power the whole house uses in real-time. *I've
read about a number of test projects using "smart meters" and they all
pretty much say the same thing: *People who know how much power they are
using at any one moment will end up reducing their average monthly
consumption.

I've got some tiny current sensors that I will attach to the main power
feeds to the circuit panel, hopefully so artfully that an inspector might
never notice they're there. *(Yes, I know the evils of mixing high and low
voltage gear and I don't recommend anyone but an insane person with total
contempt for life and the law even contemplate copying my actions!)

These tiny (1/4" sq.) Hall-Effect (HE) sensors generate a small electric
current proportional (well, proportional enough for me) to the current
flowing into the house from the main feeders. *This unit should enable me to
see the current current use from any PC on the home network. *I should even
be able to rig up an LED bargraph display that shows the real-time power
consumption of the house with another $2 worth of parts.

The unit has three 3 1023 bit analog inputs (0-10v) that should be able to
accurately measure the HE sensor voltage level and take an action (light a
bargraph LED, ring a chime, etc) when the voltage becomes greater than a
pre-determined level. *Perhaps the hardest part is going to be accurately
matching the output level of the sensor to the actual home electrical power
consumed. *If I can't get a helper with a walkie talkie, *I can temporarily
mount a wireless CCTV cam outside pointing at the electric meter so I can
tabulate meter readings and how they correspond to the sensor output as I
add more and more loads. *I will start with all the breakers off, but with
lights, etc. left on so that as I flip each breaker on, the load increases.
That way I should have a scale that gives me a pretty good idea of the juice
flowing through the circuit panel.

I'm going to make notes as I go along, paying particular attention to the
level of technical skill required to implement it. *I'm afraid it's going to
be high enough to make it a techie-only solution. *But looking through the
manual

http://www.cainetworks.com/manuals/w...lUserGuide2-03...

gives me at least a little hope that this unit may be simple enough that
with a little advice, a fairly low-tech user could implement a simple system
that could, for example, send them an email if their freezer or refrigerator
temperature rises out of the food safety zone. *Ironically, that's why I
ordered the board (my fridge tripped the GFCI) but once I read the manual
and the specs, I realized it would probably make a good and cheap whole
house power monitor.

Previously, devices like this cost close to $200, so to my mind it's a great
bargain.

The part that I haven't quite figured out about whole house power monitoring
is this: *What's the best way to notify residents that the house is burning
kilowatts without being so *intrusive that they'll just shut it off? *There
has to be some sort of override, too, because there will be some days in the
dead of a very cold winter that the consumption will peak.

--
Bobby G.


I ordered one to do remote power-up / boot-up of other computers in
the home. Computers that I occasionally need to get to over the
Internet (to copy files from work etc) but dont want to leave running
all day (for network and power reasons).

Still unsure about how to do this, will probably have to wire a relay
to the actual on/off switch on the computer and have this little guy
trigger a remote boot by paralleling said relay across the existing
power button. Once the remoter computer is powered and booted, I can
use Windows remote desktop services to do a normal shutown when I'm
done.

I dont mind leaving this little guy "online" all the time but dont
want to leave my large home computers online all the time.

Keyboard/Video/Mouse (KVM) switches with built in remote IP boot
capabilities run about $2000, so this might be a great solution if it
works.

Might also use it to remotely power up/down a NAS hard drive array I
have plugged into my net switch at home.

On Mon, 02 Nov 2009 14:32:17 -0800, RickH wrote:
I ordered one to do remote power-up / boot-up of other computers in
the home. Computers that I occasionally need to get to over the
Internet (to copy files from work etc) but dont want to leave running
all day (for network and power reasons).

Hmm, I used to ssh to my router/firewall and from there send a
wake-on-LAN command to whatever it was I was powering up (I possibly could
have got the router/firewall to forward the necessary voodoo for me and
just issue the wake-up from whatever remote machine I was on, but I never
quite got around to seeing if that would work).

For shutdown I'd just ssh into whatever machine I had on and issue a
normal poweroff, same as normal (analogous to your mention of using
Windows' remote desktop to do this).

These days my main server's just left on all the time, so for other "home
monitoring" tasks I'm just looking for some form of digital I/O
board that I can hook sensors to...

cheers

Jules

"RickH" wrote in message
news:8577550c-ac5e-

stuff snipped

I ordered one to do remote power-up / boot-up of other computers in
the home. Computers that I occasionally need to get to over the
Internet (to copy files from work etc) but dont want to leave running
all day (for network and power reasons).

Since the company that makes these is a server farm "balancer" I suspect
that you're doing just what they designed this to do for themselves:
monitoring and controlling computers. Given how much power today's superhot
CPU's can draw, I think the question of "leave them running" or "shut them
off" has finally been settled in favor of shutting them off, if only for
power saving reasons. It's kind of funny that 20 years ago the
conservation side of that ON/OFF debate was hardly a factor. Certainly not
the emissions part of things.

Still unsure about how to do this, will probably have to wire a relay
to the actual on/off switch on the computer and have this little guy
trigger a remote boot by paralleling said relay across the existing
power button. Once the remoter computer is powered and booted, I can
use Windows remote desktop services to do a normal shutown when I'm
done.

I'd try to figure out how to use wake on LAN or Modem Ring. Even the old
2001 PC's I've got have that capability. When I used to use a similar
wakeup method (anyone remember remote modem programs like "Reachout" and
"PCAnywhere"?) I used an X-10 phone responder and an appliance module to
start and stop the computer and set the BIOS to reboot on power blips. Cost
under $50 IIRC. I hooked up the PC to the module, plugged the responder in
and when I dialed my home phone, after 10 rings, it would pick up, beep
three times and then I entered a secure code and then I could touch tone 1*
to turn on the PC and 1# to turn it off and so on for up to 16 different
devices.

In your scenario you'd replace the X-10 module with a relay - I'd probably
wire up a 2 gang plastic box with a line cord, a relay on one side (with a
fuse on the relay line that would blow if 110VAC ever got cross-connected)
and an outlet on the other. I'll bet there are code-compliant components
for this, so I leave it to other to chastize me for running LV and line
voltage into the same box.

I dont mind leaving this little guy "online" all the time but dont want to
leave my large home computers online all the time.

I can't blame you, but in your case, I'd probably still use X-10 and a phone
responder if I still had a phone line simply because I'm still not sure how
secure this is all going to be over the internet. The house sending out
warnings and information to me or the entire world isn't so bad, it's the
whole world activating my PC's remotely that I would worry about. Maybe
I'll feel differently after seeing it an action.

So far, I've been busy ordering parts for it, like the Honeywell Humidistat,
the One-wire temp sensors and a solar panel + rechargeable battery to run it
on. I want my unit to run completely free-standing in a worst case
scenario. I figure in about two years, when they discover this recession
was a tremor preceding the "big one" the house may need to fend for itself
off the grid. It's probably time to start a covert ops defense program and
put a SCIF

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sensiti...ation_Facility

in the basement where I can build my own version of the this:

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2008...raeli-auto-ki/

The "pan, tilt, zoom and boom" ultimate security system. (-: Twenty years
ago it was a deleted scene in the movie "Aliens" and now it's a reality.

--
Bobby G.

Robert Green wrote:
"RickH" wrote in message
news:8577550c-ac5e-

stuff snipped

I ordered one to do remote power-up / boot-up of other computers in
the home. Computers that I occasionally need to get to over the
Internet (to copy files from work etc) but dont want to leave running
all day (for network and power reasons).

Since the company that makes these is a server farm "balancer" I suspect
that you're doing just what they designed this to do for themselves:
monitoring and controlling computers. Given how much power today's superhot
CPU's can draw, I think the question of "leave them running" or "shut them
off" has finally been settled in favor of shutting them off, if only for
power saving reasons. It's kind of funny that 20 years ago the
conservation side of that ON/OFF debate was hardly a factor. Certainly not
the emissions part of things.

Still unsure about how to do this, will probably have to wire a relay
to the actual on/off switch on the computer and have this little guy
trigger a remote boot by paralleling said relay across the existing
power button. Once the remoter computer is powered and booted, I can
use Windows remote desktop services to do a normal shutown when I'm
done.


I think that is the long way around the block.. WOL is perfect for this.


I'd try to figure out how to use wake on LAN or Modem Ring. Even the old
2001 PC's I've got have that capability. When I used to use a similar
wakeup method (anyone remember remote modem programs like "Reachout" and
"PCAnywhere"?) I used an X-10 phone responder and an appliance module to
start and stop the computer and set the BIOS to reboot on power blips. Cost
under $50 IIRC. I hooked up the PC to the module, plugged the responder in
and when I dialed my home phone, after 10 rings, it would pick up, beep
three times and then I entered a secure code and then I could touch tone 1*
to turn on the PC and 1# to turn it off and so on for up to 16 different
devices.

In your scenario you'd replace the X-10 module with a relay - I'd probably
wire up a 2 gang plastic box with a line cord, a relay on one side (with a
fuse on the relay line that would blow if 110VAC ever got cross-connected)
and an outlet on the other. I'll bet there are code-compliant components
for this, so I leave it to other to chastize me for running LV and line
voltage into the same box.

I dont mind leaving this little guy "online" all the time but dont want to
leave my large home computers online all the time.

I can't blame you, but in your case, I'd probably still use X-10 and a phone
responder if I still had a phone line simply because I'm still not sure how
secure this is all going to be over the internet. The house sending out
warnings and information to me or the entire world isn't so bad, it's the
whole world activating my PC's remotely that I would worry about. Maybe
I'll feel differently after seeing it an action.

So far, I've been busy ordering parts for it, like the Honeywell Humidistat,
the One-wire temp sensors and a solar panel + rechargeable battery to run it
on. I want my unit to run completely free-standing in a worst case
scenario. I figure in about two years, when they discover this recession
was a tremor preceding the "big one" the house may need to fend for itself
off the grid. It's probably time to start a covert ops defense program and
put a SCIF

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sensiti...ation_Facility

in the basement where I can build my own version of the this:

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2008...raeli-auto-ki/

The "pan, tilt, zoom and boom" ultimate security system. (-: Twenty years
ago it was a deleted scene in the movie "Aliens" and now it's a reality.

--
Bobby G.

On Nov 3, 8:30*am, George wrote:
Robert Green wrote:
"RickH" wrote in message
news:8577550c-ac5e-

stuff snipped

I ordered one to do remote power-up / boot-up of other computers in
the home. *Computers that I occasionally need to get to over the
Internet (to copy files from work etc) but dont want to leave running
all day (for network and power reasons).

Since the company that makes these is a server farm "balancer" I suspect
that you're doing just what they designed this to do for themselves:
monitoring and controlling computers. *Given how much power today's superhot
CPU's can draw, I think the question of "leave them running" or "shut them
off" has finally been settled in favor of *shutting them off, if only for
power saving reasons. * It's kind of funny that 20 years ago the
conservation side of that ON/OFF debate was hardly a factor. *Certainly not
the emissions part of things.

Still unsure about how to do this, will probably have to wire a relay
to the actual on/off switch on the computer and have this little guy
trigger a remote boot by paralleling said relay across the existing
power button. *Once the remoter computer is powered and booted, I can
use Windows remote desktop services to do a normal shutown when I'm
done.

I think that is the long way around the block.. WOL is perfect for this.



I'd try to figure out how to use wake on LAN or Modem Ring. *Even the old
2001 PC's I've got have that capability. *When I used to use a similar
wakeup method (anyone remember remote modem programs like "Reachout" and
"PCAnywhere"?) I used an X-10 phone responder and an appliance module to
start and stop the computer and set the BIOS to reboot on power blips. *Cost
under $50 IIRC. *I hooked up the PC to the module, plugged the responder in
and when I dialed my home phone, after 10 rings, it would pick up, beep
three times and then I entered a secure code and then I could touch tone 1*
to turn on the PC and 1# to turn it off and so on for up to 16 different
devices.

In your scenario you'd replace the X-10 module with a relay - I'd probably
wire up a 2 gang plastic box with a line cord, a relay on one side (with a
fuse on the relay line that would blow if 110VAC ever got cross-connected)
and an outlet on the other. *I'll bet there are code-compliant components
for this, so I leave it to other to chastize me for running LV and line
voltage into the same box.

I dont mind leaving this little guy "online" all the time but dont want to
leave my large home computers online all the time.

I can't blame you, but in your case, I'd probably still use X-10 and a phone
responder if I still had a phone line simply because I'm still not sure how
secure this is all going to be over the internet. *The house sending out
warnings and information to me or the entire world isn't so bad, it's the
whole world activating my PC's remotely that I would worry about. *Maybe
I'll feel differently after seeing it an action.

So far, I've been busy ordering parts for it, like the Honeywell Humidistat,
the One-wire temp sensors and a solar panel + rechargeable battery to run it
on. *I want my unit to run completely free-standing in a worst case
scenario. *I figure in about two years, when they discover this recession
was a tremor preceding the "big one" the house may need to fend for itself
off the grid. *It's probably time to start a covert ops defense program and
put a SCIF

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sensiti...formation_Faci...

in the basement where I can build my own version of the this:

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2008...raeli-auto-ki/

The "pan, tilt, zoom and boom" ultimate security system. *(-: *Twenty years
ago it was a deleted scene in the movie "Aliens" and now it's a reality..

--
Bobby G.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


The problem is WOL still requires you to have at least one computer
already powered up, then that computer can receive the WOL command to
power up the other computer(s) provided the motherboards have WOL
jacks. I wanted a single computer dead until I power it up.

RickH wrote:
On Nov 3, 8:30 am, George wrote:
Robert Green wrote:
"RickH" wrote in message
news:8577550c-ac5e-
stuff snipped
I ordered one to do remote power-up / boot-up of other computers in
the home. Computers that I occasionally need to get to over the
Internet (to copy files from work etc) but dont want to leave running
all day (for network and power reasons).
Since the company that makes these is a server farm "balancer" I suspect
that you're doing just what they designed this to do for themselves:
monitoring and controlling computers. Given how much power today's superhot
CPU's can draw, I think the question of "leave them running" or "shut them
off" has finally been settled in favor of shutting them off, if only for
power saving reasons. It's kind of funny that 20 years ago the
conservation side of that ON/OFF debate was hardly a factor. Certainly not
the emissions part of things.
Still unsure about how to do this, will probably have to wire a relay
to the actual on/off switch on the computer and have this little guy
trigger a remote boot by paralleling said relay across the existing
power button. Once the remoter computer is powered and booted, I can
use Windows remote desktop services to do a normal shutown when I'm
done.
I think that is the long way around the block.. WOL is perfect for this.



I'd try to figure out how to use wake on LAN or Modem Ring. Even the old
2001 PC's I've got have that capability. When I used to use a similar
wakeup method (anyone remember remote modem programs like "Reachout" and
"PCAnywhere"?) I used an X-10 phone responder and an appliance module to
start and stop the computer and set the BIOS to reboot on power blips. Cost
under $50 IIRC. I hooked up the PC to the module, plugged the responder in
and when I dialed my home phone, after 10 rings, it would pick up, beep
three times and then I entered a secure code and then I could touch tone 1*
to turn on the PC and 1# to turn it off and so on for up to 16 different
devices.
In your scenario you'd replace the X-10 module with a relay - I'd probably
wire up a 2 gang plastic box with a line cord, a relay on one side (with a
fuse on the relay line that would blow if 110VAC ever got cross-connected)
and an outlet on the other. I'll bet there are code-compliant components
for this, so I leave it to other to chastize me for running LV and line
voltage into the same box.
I dont mind leaving this little guy "online" all the time but dont want to
leave my large home computers online all the time.
I can't blame you, but in your case, I'd probably still use X-10 and a phone
responder if I still had a phone line simply because I'm still not sure how
secure this is all going to be over the internet. The house sending out
warnings and information to me or the entire world isn't so bad, it's the
whole world activating my PC's remotely that I would worry about. Maybe
I'll feel differently after seeing it an action.
So far, I've been busy ordering parts for it, like the Honeywell Humidistat,
the One-wire temp sensors and a solar panel + rechargeable battery to run it
on. I want my unit to run completely free-standing in a worst case
scenario. I figure in about two years, when they discover this recession
was a tremor preceding the "big one" the house may need to fend for itself
off the grid. It's probably time to start a covert ops defense program and
put a SCIF
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sensiti...formation_Faci...
in the basement where I can build my own version of the this:
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2008...raeli-auto-ki/
The "pan, tilt, zoom and boom" ultimate security system. (-: Twenty years
ago it was a deleted scene in the movie "Aliens" and now it's a reality.
--
Bobby G.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


The problem is WOL still requires you to have at least one computer
already powered up, then that computer can receive the WOL command to
power up the other computer(s) provided the motherboards have WOL
jacks. I wanted a single computer dead until I power it up.


But it doesn't have to be much of a computer (such as a router). I can
do it by remotely logging into my router and issuing WOL for any MAC on
the LAN from its web interface.

The problem is WOL still requires you to have at least one computer
already powered up, then that computer can receive the WOL

No, it doesn't. A router that can send the WOL packet can wake a PC
listening for it. No added PC necessary. Just that the PC you intend to
wake up needs to have WOL built into it.

Alternatively you could use a router that has a serial port and use that to
control a relay that will listen to RS232. Bit more of a jump-through-hoops
sort of solution though.

-Bill Kearney

Robert Green wrote:
"RickH" wrote in message
news:8577550c-ac5e-

stuff snipped

I ordered one to do remote power-up / boot-up of other computers in
the home. Computers that I occasionally need to get to over the
Internet (to copy files from work etc) but dont want to leave running
all day (for network and power reasons).

Since the company that makes these is a server farm "balancer" I suspect
that you're doing just what they designed this to do for themselves:
monitoring and controlling computers. Given how much power today's superhot
CPU's can draw, I think the question of "leave them running" or "shut them
off" has finally been settled in favor of shutting them off, if only for
power saving reasons. It's kind of funny that 20 years ago the
conservation side of that ON/OFF debate was hardly a factor. Certainly not
the emissions part of things.

Still unsure about how to do this, will probably have to wire a relay
to the actual on/off switch on the computer and have this little guy
trigger a remote boot by paralleling said relay across the existing
power button. Once the remoter computer is powered and booted, I can
use Windows remote desktop services to do a normal shutown when I'm
done.

I'd try to figure out how to use wake on LAN or Modem Ring. Even the old
2001 PC's I've got have that capability. When I used to use a similar
wakeup method (anyone remember remote modem programs like "Reachout" and
"PCAnywhere"?) I used an X-10 phone responder and an appliance module to
start and stop the computer and set the BIOS to reboot on power blips. Cost
under $50 IIRC. I hooked up the PC to the module, plugged the responder in
and when I dialed my home phone, after 10 rings, it would pick up, beep
three times and then I entered a secure code and then I could touch tone 1*
to turn on the PC and 1# to turn it off and so on for up to 16 different
devices.

In your scenario you'd replace the X-10 module with a relay - I'd probably
wire up a 2 gang plastic box with a line cord, a relay on one side (with a
fuse on the relay line that would blow if 110VAC ever got cross-connected)
and an outlet on the other. I'll bet there are code-compliant components
for this, so I leave it to other to chastize me for running LV and line
voltage into the same box.

I dont mind leaving this little guy "online" all the time but dont want to
leave my large home computers online all the time.

I can't blame you, but in your case, I'd probably still use X-10 and a phone
responder if I still had a phone line simply because I'm still not sure how
secure this is all going to be over the internet. The house sending out
warnings and information to me or the entire world isn't so bad, it's the
whole world activating my PC's remotely that I would worry about. Maybe
I'll feel differently after seeing it an action.

So far, I've been busy ordering parts for it, like the Honeywell Humidistat,
the One-wire temp sensors and a solar panel + rechargeable battery to run it
on. I want my unit to run completely free-standing in a worst case
scenario. I figure in about two years, when they discover this recession
was a tremor preceding the "big one" the house may need to fend for itself
off the grid. It's probably time to start a covert ops defense program and
put a SCIF

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sensiti...ation_Facility

in the basement where I can build my own version of the this:

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2008...raeli-auto-ki/

The "pan, tilt, zoom and boom" ultimate security system. (-: Twenty years
ago it was a deleted scene in the movie "Aliens" and now it's a reality.

--
Bobby G.



I always thought the US Government should recycle all the land mines
that are being dug up in the operational areas and put them on our
Southern border.

TDD

"The Daring Dufas" wrote:

I always thought the US Government should recycle all
the land mines that are being dug up in the operational
areas and put them on our Southern border.

You figure it's a good idea to murder women and children for the "crime" of
looking for work in the USA? I suppose your ancestors were not immigrants.
Perhaps you're actually the Daring Arapaho?

Robert

Robert L Bass wrote:
"The Daring Dufas" wrote:

I always thought the US Government should recycle all
the land mines that are being dug up in the operational
areas and put them on our Southern border.

You figure it's a good idea to murder women and children for the "crime"
of looking for work in the USA? I suppose your ancestors were not
immigrants. Perhaps you're actually the Daring Arapaho?

Robert

Oh my God, another person who doesn't understand what an "illegal
invader" is. If you knew there were land mines across a piece of
land that was illegal for you to cross, would you set foot on
that land anyway? I think news of the mines would get out pretty
quickly especially with all the warning signs and little bits and
pieces of criminal invaders everywhere. If they want a better life,
why don't they fix Mexico? By the way, my ancestors came to the
United States LEGALLY!

TDD

Robert Green wrote:
"RickH" wrote in message
news:8577550c-ac5e-

stuff snipped

I ordered one to do remote power-up / boot-up of other computers in
the home. Computers that I occasionally need to get to over the
Internet (to copy files from work etc) but dont want to leave running
all day (for network and power reasons).

Since the company that makes these is a server farm "balancer" I suspect
that you're doing just what they designed this to do for themselves:
monitoring and controlling computers. Given how much power today's superhot
CPU's can draw, I think the question of "leave them running" or "shut them
off" has finally been settled in favor of shutting them off, if only for
power saving reasons. It's kind of funny that 20 years ago the
conservation side of that ON/OFF debate was hardly a factor. Certainly not
the emissions part of things.

Still unsure about how to do this, will probably have to wire a relay
to the actual on/off switch on the computer and have this little guy
trigger a remote boot by paralleling said relay across the existing
power button. Once the remoter computer is powered and booted, I can
use Windows remote desktop services to do a normal shutown when I'm
done.

I'd try to figure out how to use wake on LAN or Modem Ring. Even the old
2001 PC's I've got have that capability. When I used to use a similar
wakeup method (anyone remember remote modem programs like "Reachout" and
"PCAnywhere"?) I used an X-10 phone responder and an appliance module to
start and stop the computer and set the BIOS to reboot on power blips. Cost
under $50 IIRC. I hooked up the PC to the module, plugged the responder in
and when I dialed my home phone, after 10 rings, it would pick up, beep
three times and then I entered a secure code and then I could touch tone 1*
to turn on the PC and 1# to turn it off and so on for up to 16 different
devices.

In your scenario you'd replace the X-10 module with a relay - I'd probably
wire up a 2 gang plastic box with a line cord, a relay on one side (with a
fuse on the relay line that would blow if 110VAC ever got cross-connected)
and an outlet on the other. I'll bet there are code-compliant components
for this, so I leave it to other to chastize me for running LV and line
voltage into the same box.

I dont mind leaving this little guy "online" all the time but dont want to
leave my large home computers online all the time.

I can't blame you, but in your case, I'd probably still use X-10 and a phone
responder if I still had a phone line simply because I'm still not sure how
secure this is all going to be over the internet. The house sending out
warnings and information to me or the entire world isn't so bad, it's the
whole world activating my PC's remotely that I would worry about. Maybe
I'll feel differently after seeing it an action.

So far, I've been busy ordering parts for it, like the Honeywell Humidistat,
the One-wire temp sensors and a solar panel + rechargeable battery to run it
on. I want my unit to run completely free-standing in a worst case
scenario. I figure in about two years, when they discover this recession
was a tremor preceding the "big one" the house may need to fend for itself
off the grid. It's probably time to start a covert ops defense program and
put a SCIF

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sensiti...ation_Facility

in the basement where I can build my own version of the this:

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2008...raeli-auto-ki/

The "pan, tilt, zoom and boom" ultimate security system. (-: Twenty years
ago it was a deleted scene in the movie "Aliens" and now it's a reality.

For the hobbiest...

http://members.upc.nl/a.kutsenko/pictures.htm

In article , (Robert L Bass) writes:
| "RickH" wrote:
|
| The problem is WOL still requires you to have at least one computer already
| powered up...
|
| O solved that with my web servers about 10 years ago using a power strip with
| an IP connection. Using any browser I could power up, down or reset up to 8
| different devices, one at time or all at once, depending on the command. The
| IP address was not listed with the DNS and was not part of my main sequence
| (to keep nasties away). Once online I a username & password brought up the
| menu.
|
| The device was more costly than the unit in consideration but it could
| eliminate your problem of needing to leave one machine up and running all the
| time. My new Dell servers have built-in IP-controlled power and reside behind
| a hardware firewall so the unit is no longer needed.
|
| I gave it to a helpful participant in AHA some years ago. I don't recall but
| it *may* have been Marc H. I'm certain these thing are less expensive now
| than a dozen years ago when I bought it since they're very simple devices. If
| Marc has it, perhaps he can tell you the manufacturer, which I've long since
| forgotten.
|
| Meanwhile, there's an outfit called Dataprobe http://dataprobe.com in New
| Jersey that makes several similar models. Another place, Bomara, makes a
| 2-unit IP strip for about $200. http://www.bomara.com/cps/n-ac2.htm.

See also:

http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?inv...T-PING&cat=NET

(4 outlets; $79.99)

Dan Lanciani
ddl@danlan.*com

"Jules" wrote in message
news
stuff snipped

These days my main server's just left on all the time, so for other "home
monitoring" tasks I'm just looking for some form of digital I/O
board that I can hook sensors to...

I've had a dual CPU, dual power supply RAID'ed server and decided it had to
go once I put a power meter on it and realized it was drawing nearly 200
watts. I found some used laptops on Ebay, some hi-capacity USB drives and
have dropped the overall consumption to less than 20 watts without
sacrificing too much performance. The laptops paid for themselves in short
order with the way electric rates have been climbing in the DC area.

It's no longer RAID'ed, although I could have gone that way, but that's not
too much of an issue with good backup procedures in place. It's not like
I'm supporting some huge SQL database that needs to serve hundreds of users.
As long as it can support full motion HD video, I'm a happy camper,
especially at one tenth the cost of the previous solution. Best part is
that I no longer need a UPS since the laptop will run for 2 hours on its own
battery if the power dies. The next jump in power savings will be switch to
a NAS device where I might be able to achieve a savings of the same
magnitude as switching from a tower PC to a laptop.

I've just ordered some Honeywell humidity sensors for the "WebCon" project.
The lowest price I found was a Canadian seller on Ebay for $14 each. Now I
am going to look for the One-wire temperature sensors, since that's one of
the unit's most appealing feature (to me, anyway): the support of eight temp
sensors. An Ebay vendor in Hong Kong has them for 10 for $20.59 with free
shipping. Also bought a packet of diodes and some 6 volt relays to
investigate the unit's ability to switch high-voltage devices. I may want
to opto-isolate those connections. I must admit, this feels like the
grown-up version of Tinkertoys! (-:

--
Bobby G.

"The Daring Dufas" wrote:

Oh my God, another person who doesn't understand what an "illegal
invader" is.

Sure I do. That would be George W. Bush in Iraq.

If you knew there were land mines across a piece of land that was
illegal for you to cross, would you set foot on that land anyway?

If your ancestors didn't know that some xenophobic moron had planted land
mines when they tried to come here would you be alive today?

I think news of the mines would get out pretty quickly...

After you murder a few hundred people that might happen but lots of people
would still take the chance and some would die. Most of these people's only
"crime" is looking for a better life. I think we need people who want to work
and build a life here. We could make more room for them by sending folks like
you to work for the dictators whose countries they are fleeing.

If they want a better life, why don't they fix Mexico?
By the way, my ancestors came to the United States
LEGALLY!

Only because there were few, if any laws against immigration back then. Some
of my family came here from the Ukraine, fleeing the Czar in 1903. Those who
didn't were all murdered by the Nazis.

Many of the people who come across the Mexican border are fleeing tyrannical
regimes in some Latin American countries. Others are fleeing the tyranny of
the drug cartels which are making life in Mexico even more intolerable for
decent people. What we need is reasoned and workable immigration statutes --
not jackass ideas about how to kill unsuspecting migrant workers... or people
like you.

The Daring Dufas wrote:
Robert L Bass wrote:
"The Daring Dufas" wrote:hMMM,
wIT PASSPORT AND ENTRY VIS?

I always thought the US Government should recycle all
the land mines that are being dug up in the operational
areas and put them on our Southern border.

You figure it's a good idea to murder women and children for the
"crime" of looking for work in the USA? I suppose your ancestors were
not immigrants. Perhaps you're actually the Daring Arapaho?

Robert

Oh my God, another person who doesn't understand what an "illegal
invader" is. If you knew there were land mines across a piece of
land that was illegal for you to cross, would you set foot on
that land anyway? I think news of the mines would get out pretty
quickly especially with all the warning signs and little bits and
pieces of criminal invaders everywhere. If they want a better life,
why don't they fix Mexico? By the way, my ancestors came to the
United States LEGALLY!

TDD

hmmmm,
With passport and entry visa? You sound like a red neck.
I earned a right to reside in USA working for your government
sticking my neck out in dangerous places. No thanks, I am happy up here.

On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 22:18:33 -0500, Robert L Bass wrote:

"Jules" wrote:

Only because there were few, if any laws against immigration back then.

Yep. I came over in 2007 - process took about a 8 months, lots of
paperwork, lots of fees (it'll end up being about $4000 when I'm all done
I think, and I didn't have lawyer fees on top of that like most do).

$4,000? I hope that's for more than the green card (which was never green,
BTW). We did our own paperwork for my wife and IIRC, ut came to less than $2K.
That was in 2004-5.

I think fees all went up since then - that's also including long trips
back and forth for medicals, embassy appointments, biometrics etc. which
of course do depend on your location as to how expensive they are
(although I think the medical alone was $400).

I'm getting toward the end of my 2 year conditional residency, and I think
it's about $1000 for the paperwork to change that into a full green card.
Then citizenship comes later (I realise that's optional!) and is
doubtless similarly costly...

The process costs a lot more than a lot of illegals can afford - even
assuming a legal route is open to them, which it won't be in most
cases.

From what some folks in Congress had been speaking about, the recent
idea is to require illegal aliens to pay a fine, go home and then go
through a pre-approved process for legal re-entry. The problem for many
illegals is all of that will be beyond their financial means.

Yep. It's expensive and slow - but at the same time I can totally
understand a country wanting to lock down its borders. I've just got
issues with use of deadly force to patrol those borders, though...

We were fortunate in that my wife was here legally on a 5-year,
renewable visa when we met.

Aha, OK... my wife's a USC - met her in 2005 on a trip over here and then
went back and forth on the VWP for the next couple of years before kicking
off all the paperwork.

I'd love to see a more open
door policy but that's probably a few years off. We'll see.

Certainly would be nice just for visitors and maybe an increase of stay
from the 90 days of the VWP.

cheers

Jules

On Nov 3, 3:02*pm, "Bill Kearney" wrote:
The problem is WOL still requires you to have at least one computer
already powered up, then that computer can receive the WOL

No, it doesn't. *A router that can send the WOL packet can wake a PC
listening for it. *No added PC necessary. *Just that the PC you intend to
wake up needs to have WOL built into it.

Alternatively you could use a router that has a serial port and use that to
control a relay that will listen to RS232. *Bit more of a jump-through-hoops
sort of solution though.

-Bill Kearney

If my PC has no power applied to it how can it possibly "listen" to
anything. I want it completely powered off, not on standby.

Tony Hwang wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote:
Robert L Bass wrote:
"The Daring Dufas" wrote:hMMM,
wIT PASSPORT AND ENTRY VIS?

I always thought the US Government should recycle all
the land mines that are being dug up in the operational
areas and put them on our Southern border.

You figure it's a good idea to murder women and children for the
"crime" of looking for work in the USA? I suppose your ancestors were
not immigrants. Perhaps you're actually the Daring Arapaho?

Robert

Oh my God, another person who doesn't understand what an "illegal
invader" is. If you knew there were land mines across a piece of
land that was illegal for you to cross, would you set foot on
that land anyway? I think news of the mines would get out pretty
quickly especially with all the warning signs and little bits and
pieces of criminal invaders everywhere. If they want a better life,
why don't they fix Mexico? By the way, my ancestors came to the
United States LEGALLY!

TDD

hmmmm,
With passport and entry visa? You sound like a red neck.
I earned a right to reside in USA working for your government
sticking my neck out in dangerous places. No thanks, I am happy up here.

You said the magic words: "I earned the right". I'm glad
you went through the legal process, that makes you an
honorable man. My maternal ancestors came through Ellis
Island legally and there is a possibility that a few of
them were turned away in accordance with the existing law
at the time. My paternal ancestors came to America with
the second or third wave of colonists who were escaping a
tyrannical English monarchy. I would be interested in how
you know what I sound like. I don't recall posting an audio
file. *snicker*

TDD

On Thu, 05 Nov 2009 15:21:41 -0500, Robert L Bass wrote:
I'm getting toward the end of my 2 year conditional residency,

IIRFC, we didn't have that pahse. Because my wife was already here on a visa
when we married, we just applied for the green card. It took about 18 months
back then though I think it may differ depending on country of origin, current
circumstances, etc.

Aha, OK. I think it took me about half that time, but I get a green card
for 2 years then i have to do more paperwork to turn it into a full green
card (I've got all the rights of a full GC now, but I think they just
want to hear from people 2 years down the line to make sure they're still
married and aren't playing the system). I must be classed as something
like a "non-permanent permanent resident" right now

My cousin's wife (coincidentally, also from Brazil) recently became a
citizen. Her cost was mainly for the lawyer because she fouled up her
paperwork at one point.

I've hated the paperwork so far - there's a lot of stuff in there that's
a bit ambiguous. I can see why most folk hire lawyers to take care of
it...

[snip]

Have you been abroad since getting the "conditional"? There's an
inconvenient surprise for many folks upon returning. Instead of being
routinely processed through customs, you get side-tracked to a separate
office where they question you more about your trip. It can take
anywhere from a few minutes to several hours before you get out to
whoever is waiting for you and there's no way to make a call (cell
phones are prohibited in customs). I'm not sure the reason for this
step but it's a royal PITA if you arrive at a busy time.

Well, I got "grilled" in Chicago on my 4th trip over on the VWP, and it
delayed me for about 30 mins - I had to hoof it to make my next flight.
But it wasn't a bad experience (I'd heard some real horror stories) - the
staff were polite and courteous and were happy with the answers I gave
them.

Just frustrating not knowing in advance whether you're going to get
'caught' in that process though (maybe it's better now, but all the online
airline ticket companies at the time didn't give the option for saying how
long you wanted between landing in the US and getting a connecting flight
- if the first flight was running late it could be tight enough as it was)

I've not tried going out of the US and back since I was granted residency
- probably won't now either as I've only got until Feb before I have to
apply to get the 'full' green card.

cheers!!

Jules

"RickH" a écrit dans le message de groupe
de discussion :
...
On Nov 3, 3:02 pm, "Bill Kearney" wrote:
The problem is WOL still requires you to have at least one computer
already powered up, then that computer can receive the WOL

No, it doesn't. A router that can send the WOL packet can wake a PC
listening for it. No added PC necessary. Just that the PC you intend to
wake up needs to have WOL built into it.

Alternatively you could use a router that has a serial port and use that
to
control a relay that will listen to RS232. Bit more of a
jump-through-hoops
sort of solution though.

-Bill Kearney

If my PC has no power applied to it how can it possibly "listen" to
anything. I want it completely powered off, not on standby.


An ATX pc is never really off..

In fact part of the MB is still under power..

how do you think the pc turn on just by the press of a small momentary
switch...

you can even see that the MB is under power by looking at inside the box
while the system is supposed to be off. you will see at least one led on..

I think that is his point. Reread his post.

"petem" wrote in message
...
An ATX pc is never really off..

In fact part of the MB is still under power..

how do you think the pc turn on just by the press of a small momentary
switch...

you can even see that the MB is under power by looking at inside the box
while the system is supposed to be off. you will see at least one led on..




"RickH" a écrit dans le message de groupe
de discussion :
If my PC has no power applied to it how can it possibly "listen" to
anything. I want it completely powered off, not on standby.

"petem" writes:

"RickH" a écrit dans le message de
groupe de discussion :
...
On Nov 3, 3:02 pm, "Bill Kearney" wrote:
The problem is WOL still requires you to have at least one computer
already powered up, then that computer can receive the WOL

No, it doesn't. A router that can send the WOL packet can wake a PC
listening for it. No added PC necessary. Just that the PC you intend to
wake up needs to have WOL built into it.

Alternatively you could use a router that has a serial port and use
that to
control a relay that will listen to RS232. Bit more of a
jump-through-hoops
sort of solution though.

-Bill Kearney

If my PC has no power applied to it how can it possibly "listen" to
anything. I want it completely powered off, not on standby.


An ATX pc is never really off..

In fact part of the MB is still under power..

how do you think the pc turn on just by the press of a small momentary
switch...

Well, you're right that an ATX PC is never truly off. But a circuit
that would go truly off, but could power up with a switch like ATX,
wouldn't be hard.

you can even see that the MB is under power by looking at inside the
box while the system is supposed to be off. you will see at least one
led on..

And, as I understand it, an ATX computer that is "off" can wake-on-lan.
I've got no idea how much power an ATX machine draws when "off".

But they also have a switch on the back which is "truly off". What the
OP is looking for would end up being the equivalent of hitting that
switch.
--
As we enjoy great advantages from the inventions of others, we should
be glad of an opportunity to serve others by any invention of ours;
and this we should do freely and generously. (Benjamin Franklin)

Then the OP requires another circuit, or computer that is on standby to "hit
that switch" to turn it back on again. The point become moot.

A computer in sleep mode requires very little power with the modern
efficient switching power supplies and no mechanical parts turning. I would
have to measure one to get actual figures.

"Joe Pfeiffer" wrote in message
...
And, as I understand it, an ATX computer that is "off" can wake-on-lan.
I've got no idea how much power an ATX machine draws when "off".

But they also have a switch on the back which is "truly off". What the
OP is looking for would end up being the equivalent of hitting that
switch.

A Dell Dimension 2400 reads 0 watts on my Kill A Watt and 2VA with PF=0.6.
Under power it uses 33-36W.

Anyone concerned about the standby power has succumbed to the mumbo-jumbo
disinformation from nitwits like Bass & Hult. According to the DOE, 9% of
residential electricity went for lighting (a couple of years back).
Residential use is about 1/3 of total use so that means residential lighting
uses about 3% of the total. In the USA, coal accounts for about 50% of that.
So the reduction in mercury in the atmosphere is minimal from switching to
CFLs while the danger of mercury in your kid's bedroom has increased
enormously. The reduction in carbon dioxide from switching to CFLs is little
more than a rounding error - it's not likely to keep the Maldives afloat.

Recent figures show TVs now use 8-9% of residential electricity as a result
of the proliferation of big, flat-screen TVs. So all those folks who
installed CFLs have been on a fool's errand - subsidizing the carbon budget
those who have bought new TVs. Of course, Wall Mart made money on both the
CFLs and the TVs.

"Josepi" wrote:

er in sleep mode requires very little power with the modern
efficient switching power supplies and no mechanical parts turning. I would
have to measure one to get actual figures.

On Fri, 06 Nov 2009 08:10:29 -0700, Joe Pfeiffer wrote:
But they also have a switch on the back which is "truly off". What the
OP is looking for would end up being the equivalent of hitting that
switch.

One gotcha I found with one of my home systems is that WOL doesn't work if
the power's been off (power cut, breaker, 'hard' switch on the back of the
PSU etc.) - the first time after a total power-off I need to hit the
switch on the front of the machine; it won't respond to WOL events. Once
it's been on via the front switch once, shutdown-WOL cycles work normally.

I'm not sure if that's a widespread problem (or even a goofy intentional
'feature'), or if I've just got crap firmware :-)

cheers

Jules

Well, since we are totally changing the topic of this thread. LOL

CFLs may not be the perfect answer but perhaps you can subsidize the
electrical power generators for us and keep with the incandescents? My
energy comnsumption was about 27kWh per day until I started using CFLs.

LEDs are too expensive, too dim, from what I have seen so far and not much
more efficient than incandescents. On top of all that they are current
sensitive devices and require a ballast that consumes power and makes heat.
This shortens the life of an LED andf makes maintainence more costly.

The new phosphour types may be a btter answer, if you don't mind glowing in
the dark.


"Dave Houston" wrote in message
...
A Dell Dimension 2400 reads 0 watts on my Kill A Watt and 2VA with PF=0.6.
Under power it uses 33-36W.

Anyone concerned about the standby power has succumbed to the mumbo-jumbo
disinformation from nitwits like Bass & Hult. According to the DOE, 9% of
residential electricity went for lighting (a couple of years back).
Residential use is about 1/3 of total use so that means residential
lighting
uses about 3% of the total. In the USA, coal accounts for about 50% of
that.
So the reduction in mercury in the atmosphere is minimal from switching to
CFLs while the danger of mercury in your kid's bedroom has increased
enormously. The reduction in carbon dioxide from switching to CFLs is
little
more than a rounding error - it's not likely to keep the Maldives afloat.

Recent figures show TVs now use 8-9% of residential electricity as a
result
of the proliferation of big, flat-screen TVs. So all those folks who
installed CFLs have been on a fool's errand - subsidizing the carbon
budget
those who have bought new TVs. Of course, Wall Mart made money on both the
CFLs and the TVs.


"Josepi" wrote:

er in sleep mode requires very little power with the modern
efficient switching power supplies and no mechanical parts turning. I
would
have to measure one to get actual figures.

If my PC has no power applied to it how can it possibly "listen" to
anything. I want it completely powered off, not on standby.

Why do you want your PC completely off?

Best,
Christopher

On Nov 6, 10:41*am, (Dave Houston) wrote:
A Dell Dimension 2400 reads 0 watts on my Kill A Watt and 2VA with PF=0..6.
Under power it uses 33-36W.

Anyone concerned about the standby power has succumbed to the mumbo-jumbo
disinformation from nitwits like Bass & Hult. According to the DOE, 9% of
residential electricity went for lighting (a couple of years back).
Residential use is about 1/3 of total use so that means residential lighting
uses about 3% of the total. In the USA, coal accounts for about 50% of that.
So the reduction in mercury in the atmosphere is minimal from switching to
CFLs while the danger of mercury in your kid's bedroom has increased
enormously. The reduction in carbon dioxide from switching to CFLs is little
more than a rounding error - it's not likely to keep the Maldives afloat.

Recent figures show TVs now use 8-9% of residential electricity as a result
of the proliferation of big, flat-screen TVs. So all those folks who
installed CFLs have been on a fool's errand - subsidizing the carbon budget
those who have bought new TVs. Of course, Wall Mart made money on both the
CFLs and the TVs.

"Josepi" wrote:

er in sleep mode requires very little power with the modern



efficient switching power supplies and no mechanical parts turning. I would
have to measure one to get actual figures.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Also the supply chain to make a CFL is huge and deep, involving much
mining, manufacturing, chemical refining, and shipping.

An incandescent consisting of 5 low-tech parts is way cheaper to make
in terms of total carbon footprint just to get it on a store shelf.

Nobody ever seems to consider that the CFL is already playing catch up
with the incandescent next to it on the store shelf in terms of carbon
usage, even before anyone has applied current to said bulbs yet. But
CFL's do provide more jobs to make all the various parts.

On Nov 6, 1:17*pm, "Christopher Glaeser" wrote:
If my PC has no power applied to it how can it possibly "listen" to
anything. *I want it completely powered off, not on standby.

Why do you want your PC completely off?

Best,
Christopher

I guess its not an issue considering it seems everything else you plug
in these days is also "in standby".

If the greenies were serious then they'd regulate back that little
thing called an on/off switch that actually was wired in series with
said device line cord.