Anyone here familiar with or worked with this stuff? Specifically, NDS's
"Spee-D" drain channel? (http://www.ndspro.com/specbinder)

Guy I'm working for intends to use this stuff to drain his driveway, and
bought a bunch of it. He thought he could just cut a trench the size of
the channel and drop it in, but that appears not to be the way to do it
(their installation instructions tell you to embed it in concrete).

Any advice appreciated.


--
Found--the gene that causes belief in genetic determinism

On Sep 3, 9:17*pm, David Nebenzahl wrote:
Anyone here familiar with or worked with this stuff? Specifically, NDS's
"Spee-D" drain channel? (http://www.ndspro.com/specbinder)

Guy I'm working for intends to use this stuff to drain his driveway, and
bought a bunch of it. He thought he could just cut a trench the size of
the channel and drop it in, but that appears not to be the way to do it
(their installation instructions tell you to embed it in concrete).

Any advice appreciated.

--
Found--the gene that causes belief in genetic determinism

Interesting...

The spec sheets says:

Note: Some installations may require a concrete collar to meet load
rating. Loads are based on encasing product in concrete. Product must
be installed using NDS instructions.

Note the words "*may* require a concrete collar".

The installation instructions say:

5. In asphalt or hot mastic applications, the channels must be encased
in concrete for strength and to prevent distortion of the channel.

Which implies, at least to me, that the channels don't *always* need
to be encased in concrete.

Is the "guy" expecting the drain to be under load or is he installing
it in a place where nobody ever walks, bikes, or drives?

I'd find out exactly how/where he plans to use the product and call
NDS to get their recommendation.

On 9/3/2009 7:16 PM DerbyDad03 spake thus:

On Sep 3, 9:17 pm, David Nebenzahl wrote:

Anyone here familiar with or worked with this stuff? Specifically, NDS's
"Spee-D" drain channel? (http://www.ndspro.com/specbinder)

Interesting...

The spec sheets says:

Note: Some installations may require a concrete collar to meet load
rating. Loads are based on encasing product in concrete. Product must
be installed using NDS instructions.

Note the words "*may* require a concrete collar".

The installation instructions say:

5. In asphalt or hot mastic applications, the channels must be encased
in concrete for strength and to prevent distortion of the channel.

Which implies, at least to me, that the channels don't *always* need
to be encased in concrete.

Yes, it ain't exactly clear.

Is the "guy" expecting the drain to be under load or is he installing
it in a place where nobody ever walks, bikes, or drives?

It's in a driveway (2 places, both get driven over, one regularly).


--
Found--the gene that causes belief in genetic determinism

On Sep 3, 11:58*pm, David Nebenzahl wrote:
On 9/3/2009 7:16 PM DerbyDad03 spake thus:







On Sep 3, 9:17 pm, David Nebenzahl wrote:

Anyone here familiar with or worked with this stuff? Specifically, NDS's
"Spee-D" drain channel? (http://www.ndspro.com/specbinder)

Interesting...

The spec sheets says:

Note: Some installations may require a concrete collar to meet load
rating. Loads are based on encasing product in concrete. Product must
be installed using NDS instructions.

Note the words "*may* require a concrete collar".

The installation instructions say:

5. In asphalt or hot mastic applications, the channels must be encased
in concrete for strength and to prevent distortion of the channel.

Which implies, at least to me, that the channels don't *always* need
to be encased in concrete.

Yes, it ain't exactly clear.

Is the "guy" expecting the drain to be under load or is he installing
it in a place where nobody ever walks, bikes, or drives?

It's in a driveway (2 places, both get driven over, one regularly).

--
Found--the gene that causes belief in genetic determinism- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Then it seems like there is no question. From what I read at the site,
concrete is a must for that application, unless he doesn't care about
longevity or warranties.

On Sep 4, 9:19*am, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Sep 3, 11:58*pm, David Nebenzahl wrote:





On 9/3/2009 7:16 PM DerbyDad03 spake thus:

On Sep 3, 9:17 pm, David Nebenzahl wrote:

Anyone here familiar with or worked with this stuff? Specifically, NDS's
"Spee-D" drain channel? (http://www.ndspro.com/specbinder)

Interesting...

The spec sheets says:

Note: Some installations may require a concrete collar to meet load
rating. Loads are based on encasing product in concrete. Product must
be installed using NDS instructions.

Note the words "*may* require a concrete collar".

The installation instructions say:

5. In asphalt or hot mastic applications, the channels must be encased
in concrete for strength and to prevent distortion of the channel.

Which implies, at least to me, that the channels don't *always* need
to be encased in concrete.

Yes, it ain't exactly clear.

Is the "guy" expecting the drain to be under load or is he installing
it in a place where nobody ever walks, bikes, or drives?

It's in a driveway (2 places, both get driven over, one regularly).

--
Found--the gene that causes belief in genetic determinism- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Then it seems like there is no question. From what I read at the site,
concrete is a must for that application, unless he doesn't care about
longevity or warranties.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Not true. The installation instructions for the product say that it
may be installed with either a sand, soil or concrete. They
specifically show a installation for light vehicular traffic where a
concrete base may not be required. It's on page 27 of the NDS
catalog.

However, from a practical standpoint, installing this into an EXISTING
driveway would seem to me to a lot easier using concrete on top of an
existing stable base. It would seen to be a lot easier to float it
down into a bed of concrete, rather than try to get a base of
compacted soil or sand perfectly level to precisely the right depth.

I'm planning on doing a similar job and that's how I plan to do it.

On 9/5/2009 7:56 AM spake thus:

However, from a practical standpoint, installing this into an EXISTING
driveway would seem to me to a lot easier using concrete on top of an
existing stable base. It would seen to be a lot easier to float it
down into a bed of concrete, rather than try to get a base of
compacted soil or sand perfectly level to precisely the right depth.

I'm planning on doing a similar job and that's how I plan to do it.

So a guy would, what? suspend the channel in the trough at the right
height? Use "chairs" under it?

Getting the channel at the right height using a compacted base shouldn't
be that hard, should it? Just add or remove material as required. They
say it should be 1/8" to 1/4" below the top surface depending on whether
it's a traffic or non-traffic installation.

This is going into an existing driveway (asphalt over concrete).


--
Found--the gene that causes belief in genetic determinism

On Sep 5, 2:33*pm, David Nebenzahl wrote:
On 9/5/2009 7:56 AM spake thus:

However, from a practical standpoint, installing this into an EXISTING
driveway would seem to me to a lot easier using concrete on top of an
existing stable base. *It would seen to be a lot easier to float it
down into a bed of concrete, rather than try to get a base of
compacted soil or sand perfectly level to precisely the right depth.

I'm planning on doing a similar job and that's how I plan to do it.

So a guy would, what? suspend the channel in the trough at the right
height? Use "chairs" under it?

Getting the channel at the right height using a compacted base shouldn't
be that hard, should it? Just add or remove material as required. They
say it should be 1/8" to 1/4" below the top surface depending on whether
it's a traffic or non-traffic installation.

This is going into an existing driveway (asphalt over concrete).


The above questions depend a lot on where in the existing driveway the
new drain is going. If it's going at a perimeter location so that
you can dig out around it and have full access from one side, then I
would:

1- Cut out the rectangular opening in the existing asphalt/concrete

2 - Excavate down a few inches below where the bottom of the channel
will go, assuming the soil at that level is compacted a firm.

3- Fit the drain and pipe in place, then temporarily remove.

4 - Place some form of rudimentary form along the long edges, could be
just heavy cardboard or similar.

5 - Put enough concrete under the channel to allow it to be down into
it as well as some on the far side.

6 - Put in the drain channel/pipe and bed it down to correct height

7- Fill in the exposed side around the channel with concrete.


The above is how I'm planning to approach the work I'm going to do.
If you don't bed it in concrete, I do not see how you can get a
uniform perfectly graded compacted base for the entire channel to rest
on. In my case, it's going next to new belgium block curb that's
going to be installed, so it's not likely to have much if any
vehicular weight on it. But just to be sure and also because I think
it's easier to just bed it in concrete rather than try to screw around
getting a perfect base in a small location where you have limited
access, I'm going to use concrete. With vehicular traffic I
definitely would bed it in concrete. Again, I think it's just as
easy, if not easier than trying to make that pefect base and it's not
worth the risk that when someone drives over it one side sinks down
1/4".


If the drain is going in a spot surrounded by driveway on both sides,
eg across where the driveway meets the garage apron, then you have a
different situation. Then I would cut an opening a few inches
larger on each side than the channel width. That gives you an
opening large enough to do the job, bed it in concrete, fill it up the
sides with concrete and finish it off.

On 9/6/2009 6:19 AM spake thus:

If the drain is going in a spot surrounded by driveway on both sides,
eg across where the driveway meets the garage apron, then you have a
different situation. Then I would cut an opening a few inches
larger on each side than the channel width. That gives you an
opening large enough to do the job, bed it in concrete, fill it up the
sides with concrete and finish it off.

This is exactly where the channel is going. There are actually going to
be two runs; one well above the garage across the driveway, upslope,
which will definitely be driven over. The other one in front of the
garage apron will probably never be driven over, as the garage is
populated by woodworking tools. So I'm thinking the upper channel should
be embedded in concrete, while the lower one could be placed on top of
compacted soil and then backfilled w/concrete.

The manufacturer, by the way, recommends 4" of backfill on each side
(for the Spee-D channel), so I think it's wise to follow this.


--
Found--the gene that causes belief in genetic determinism