I have an apartment that I will be renting out that is being remodeled. The
kitchen will have a pre-made Lowes post-formed Formica countertop.

However, there is a half-wall divider between the living room and kitchen
and I want put a small countertop on top of the divider. The countertop
will be about 2 feet by 4 feet, and it will have a round end. So, it needs
to be custom made. This countertop will sit on top of the divider wall and
it will overhang past the wall about 12 to 16 inches, and I will put a
couple of bar stools next to it.

Since it will be an overhang that people may lean on, I want to be sure it
is fairly strong.

Typically, I think the way people make laminate countertops is to put two
sheets of 3/4 inch partical board together and install the laminate on top
of that and on the sides. I was thinking of maybe using two pieces of 3/4
inch plywood instead for greater strength. However, I have heard that new
plywood can sometimes "cup" or curve a little as it dries out, so I am
wondering if that may be a problem. Particle board doesn't do this as far
as I know.

So, any thoughts on whether it's okay to use plywood for more strength or
would I be better off using particle board?

BetaB4 wrote:
I have an apartment that I will be renting out that is being
remodeled. The kitchen will have a pre-made Lowes post-formed
Formica countertop.
However, there is a half-wall divider between the living room and
kitchen and I want put a small countertop on top of the divider. The
countertop will be about 2 feet by 4 feet, and it will have a round
end. So, it needs to be custom made. This countertop will sit on
top of the divider wall and it will overhang past the wall about 12
to 16 inches, and I will put a couple of bar stools next to it.

Since it will be an overhang that people may lean on, I want to be
sure it is fairly strong.

Typically, I think the way people make laminate countertops is to put
two sheets of 3/4 inch partical board together and install the
laminate on top of that and on the sides.

No, just one thickness is normal.
____________

I was thinking of maybe
using two pieces of 3/4 inch plywood instead for greater strength.
However, I have heard that new plywood can sometimes "cup" or curve a
little as it dries out, so I am wondering if that may be a problem.

No, it should already be dry. If you want to use two thicnesses, just glue
and screw together. Use yellow carpenter's glue. Use decent plywood
too...not the low grade fir from Home Depot; birch from there or luan or
virola would be OK.
__________

Particle board doesn't do this as far as I know.

So, any thoughts on whether it's okay to use plywood for more
strength or would I be better off using particle board?

You are better off using plywood, one thickness or two. Since there is a
considerable overhang, be sure it is *very* firmly attached to the divider.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

"dadiOH" wrote in message
...
BetaB4 wrote:

So, any thoughts on whether it's okay to use plywood for more
strength or would I be better off using particle board?

You are better off using plywood, one thickness or two. Since there is a
considerable overhang, be sure it is *very* firmly attached to the
divider.

think corbels. there's no way 2 thicknesses of ply 4' wide will be sturdy
enough not to flex enough to cause problems.

In article ,
"charlie" wrote:

"dadiOH" wrote in message
...
BetaB4 wrote:

So, any thoughts on whether it's okay to use plywood for more
strength or would I be better off using particle board?

You are better off using plywood, one thickness or two. Since there is a
considerable overhang, be sure it is *very* firmly attached to the
divider.

think corbels. there's no way 2 thicknesses of ply 4' wide will be sturdy
enough not to flex enough to cause problems.

Huh? The supporting wall is the 4' dimension, the overhang per OP is "12
to 16 inches."

"Smitty Two" wrote in message
news
In article ,
"charlie" wrote:

"dadiOH" wrote in message
...
BetaB4 wrote:

So, any thoughts on whether it's okay to use plywood for more
strength or would I be better off using particle board?

You are better off using plywood, one thickness or two. Since there is
a
considerable overhang, be sure it is *very* firmly attached to the
divider.

think corbels. there's no way 2 thicknesses of ply 4' wide will be sturdy
enough not to flex enough to cause problems.

Huh? The supporting wall is the 4' dimension, the overhang per OP is "12
to 16 inches."

i missed that. 12-16" is still too much of an overhang to not flex for
plywood or particle board. it's a rental. what's going to happen if a kid
hangs off the edge of it?

In article , Smitty Two wrote:
In article ,
"charlie" wrote:

"dadiOH" wrote in message
...
BetaB4 wrote:

So, any thoughts on whether it's okay to use plywood for more
strength or would I be better off using particle board?

You are better off using plywood, one thickness or two. Since there is a
considerable overhang, be sure it is *very* firmly attached to the
divider.

think corbels. there's no way 2 thicknesses of ply 4' wide will be sturdy
enough not to flex enough to cause problems.

Huh? The supporting wall is the 4' dimension, the overhang per OP is "12
to 16 inches."

Still too much for two thicknesses of plywood. A few years ago, when faced
with a similar situation, I glued up the countertop from two layers of 3/4"
MDF, leaving several 3/4" wide gaps in the lower layer -- and fastened 3/4"
square steel tubes in the gaps.

charlie wrote:
....
plywood or particle board. it's a rental. what's going to happen if a kid
hangs off the edge of it?

Not much if it's securely fastened down so the whole thing stays attached.

At best, maybe the kid'll learn a lesson besides...

--

BetaB4 wrote:
....
So, any thoughts on whether it's okay to use plywood for more strength or
would I be better off using particle board?

More than "ok", it's the only logical choice. CD is fine despite what
somebody else says it's stronger than the alternatives given unless go
w/ _extremely_ expensive which is simply stupid for a laminate counter base.

Normally countertop construction is simply single layer w/ a narrow
piece around the outer edge to give the illusion of the extra thickness.

In this case as an overhang the full double-ply would be _a_good_thing_
(tm). As somebody else said, some yellow glue and screw it together to
serve as a clamping action "while the glue dries" and it'll be plenty
strong enough.

It wouldn't hurt to have a single support on the 16" end in the middle
perhaps but it really wouldn't be mandatory--1-1/2" ply will support a
sizable load and laminate is quite flexible to just a little bending.

But, as it is a rental and subject therefore to more abuse than normal,
a stiffener as also suggested would be cheap insurance.

--

"BetaB4" wrote in message
...
I have an apartment that I will be renting out that is being remodeled.
The kitchen will have a pre-made Lowes post-formed Formica countertop.

However, there is a half-wall divider between the living room and kitchen
and I want put a small countertop on top of the divider. The countertop
will be about 2 feet by 4 feet, and it will have a round end. So, it
needs to be custom made. This countertop will sit on top of the divider
wall and it will overhang past the wall about 12 to 16 inches, and I will
put a couple of bar stools next to it.

Since it will be an overhang that people may lean on, I want to be sure it
is fairly strong.

Typically, I think the way people make laminate countertops is to put two
sheets of 3/4 inch partical board together and install the laminate on top
of that and on the sides. I was thinking of maybe using two pieces of 3/4
inch plywood instead for greater strength. However, I have heard that new
plywood can sometimes "cup" or curve a little as it dries out, so I am
wondering if that may be a problem. Particle board doesn't do this as far
as I know.

So, any thoughts on whether it's okay to use plywood for more strength or
would I be better off using particle board?


My countertop overhangs 10" which seems just right for sitting on bar
stools. It is made with one thickness of particle board and has worked fine
for the last 20 years.

dpb wrote:
BetaB4 wrote:
...
So, any thoughts on whether it's okay to use plywood for more
strength or would I be better off using particle board?

More than "ok", it's the only logical choice. CD is fine despite what
somebody else says

snip

I don't like voids.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

Thanks all.

I didn't know what corbels were, but I did a Google search and found out.
That may be an option. I'll look at the job again and keep that in mind as
a possibility.

The idea the two layers of 3/4" plywood may not be enough wasn't something
that I had thought about. But, maybe I'd be better off doing 3 layers just
in case. I may even look a little better with the edge being a little
thicker.

Some mentioned "CD" but I don't know what that is.

I'm assume that no one thinks the issue of plywood possibly cupping a little
when it dries out as being an issue. Someone mentioned that to me so I
thought I'd check in case that was a common opinion. Sounds like it isn't.

BetaB4 wrote:

So, any thoughts on whether it's okay to use plywood for more
strength or would I be better off using particle board?

"dadiOH" wrote:

dpb wrote:
BetaB4 wrote:
...
So, any thoughts on whether it's okay to use plywood for more
strength or would I be better off using particle board?

More than "ok", it's the only logical choice. CD is fine despite what
somebody else says

snip

I don't like voids.

That's why some folks pay more for cabinet grade or marine plywood.

To the op- I would definitely go with exterior- but if you're anal,
you can avoid having to fill any edge voids by using marine grade.
[same glue in both]

Jim

In article ,
"BetaB4" wrote:

Thanks all.

I didn't know what corbels were, but I did a Google search and found out.
That may be an option. I'll look at the job again and keep that in mind as
a possibility.

The idea the two layers of 3/4" plywood may not be enough wasn't something
that I had thought about. But, maybe I'd be better off doing 3 layers just
in case. I may even look a little better with the edge being a little
thicker.

Some mentioned "CD" but I don't know what that is.

I'm assume that no one thinks the issue of plywood possibly cupping a little
when it dries out as being an issue. Someone mentioned that to me so I
thought I'd check in case that was a common opinion. Sounds like it isn't.


Well, we have a range of opinions, as usual. Personally, I think two
layers of 3/4 ply is plenty strong enough. Assuming the wall is robust,
and the ply is screwed to it with a sufficient quantity of the correct
screws, I think you could stand on the cantilevered edge without
breaking anything.

CD is construction grade plywood. Lots of knotholes. AC is standard
finish grade, with few knots on the A side, all of which have been cut
out and filled.

On Aug 1, 10:08*am, Jim Elbrecht wrote:

snip

I don't like voids.

That's why some folks pay more for cabinet grade or marine plywood.

To the op- I would definitely go with exterior- but if you're anal,
you can avoid having to fill any edge voids by using marine grade.
[same glue in both]

Marine plywood I've used has more plies, is stronger, and I've never
found a void. With only two layers it might be a price stand off vs.
three of lesser grade plywood. It definitely works up better with nice
clean edges. If the strength issue is compelling, a bucks extra cost
may save some grief down the line.

Joe

On Fri, 31 Jul 2009 15:26:11 -0400, "BetaB4"
wrote:

I have an apartment that I will be renting out that is being remodeled. The
kitchen will have a pre-made Lowes post-formed Formica countertop.

However, there is a half-wall divider between the living room and kitchen
and I want put a small countertop on top of the divider. The countertop
will be about 2 feet by 4 feet, and it will have a round end. So, it needs
to be custom made. This countertop will sit on top of the divider wall and
it will overhang past the wall about 12 to 16 inches, and I will put a
couple of bar stools next to it.

Since it will be an overhang that people may lean on, I want to be sure it
is fairly strong.

Typically, I think the way people make laminate countertops is to put two
sheets of 3/4 inch partical board together and install the laminate on top
of that and on the sides. I was thinking of maybe using two pieces of 3/4
inch plywood instead for greater strength. However, I have heard that new
plywood can sometimes "cup" or curve a little as it dries out, so I am
wondering if that may be a problem. Particle board doesn't do this as far
as I know.

So, any thoughts on whether it's okay to use plywood for more strength or
would I be better off using particle board?



Particle board is weaker than ply. Get some 3/4" furniture-grade ply,
expensive, but it will have less frustrating voids to tend with, the
surface is very smooth and flat (ideal for contact cement). You can
apply edge banding or hardwood strips to cover the ply edges. The
plys that are the most stable and strongest are those with a lot of
layers. You could use MDF but it will deflect under a load. Good
luck with your project.