....anticipate the time it takes to reach a certain temperature by a certain
time?

For example, during the day while no one is home but the cats, we keep the
temperature set at 80°F. I arrive home at 5:00 p.m. and would like to have
the temperature at 75°F. when I arrive.

Rather than my having to "guess" how long it might take to reduce the
temperature by 5 degrees, is there a thermostat capable of figuring that out?

TIA

--
Wayne Boatwright
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I doubt whether the world holds for any one a more soul stirring
surprise than the first adventure with ice cream. Heywood Broun

Wayne Boatwright wrote:
...anticipate the time it takes to reach a certain temperature by a certain
time?
....

Several...dags

--

I don't know the answer to your question (that's hapening a lot
today), but how much difference could it make if it sometimes gets to
75 half an hour early? I'd just set it a little early and relax.

I'm sure you could have one built (interface inside and outside
thermometers and the AC to a small computer). It still could be wildly
inaccurate sometimes, because the weather conditions could change
drastically between the time it decides to start and the time you
expect it to be at your set temperature.

I have a Honeywell that does that. It remembers the previous attempts
to reach the preprogramed temperature, and adjusts to try to start the
next attempt to reach it with the least time / least fuel compromise.
The only thing is, here in Texas the weather swings wildly at certain
times of year, confusing it somewhat. but overall it is a good
system.

Wayne Boatwright wrote:
...anticipate the time it takes to reach a certain temperature by a certain
time?

For example, during the day while no one is home but the cats, we keep the
temperature set at 80�F. I arrive home at 5:00 p.m. and would like to have
the temperature at 75�F. when I arrive.

Rather than my having to "guess" how long it might take to reduce the
temperature by 5 degrees, is there a thermostat capable of figuring that out?

TIA

--
Wayne Boatwright
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I doubt whether the world holds for any one a more soul stirring
surprise than the first adventure with ice cream. Heywood Broun

On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 00:33:16 GMT, against all advice, something
compelled Wayne Boatwright , to
say:

...anticipate the time it takes to reach a certain temperature by a certain
time?


Yes. They are made by Honeywell



--

Don't worry about people stealing an idea. If it's original, you will
have to ram it down their throats.
- Howard Aiken

On Wed 22 Jul 2009 07:13:53p, Steve Daniels told us...

On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 00:33:16 GMT, against all advice, something
compelled Wayne Boatwright , to
say:

...anticipate the time it takes to reach a certain temperature by a
certain time?


Yes. They are made by Honeywell




Thank you!

--
Wayne Boatwright
------------------------------------------------------------------------
We are living in a world today where lemonade is made from
artificial flavors and furniture polish is made from real lemons.
Alfred E. Newman

On Wed 22 Jul 2009 05:46:04p, dpb told us...

Wayne Boatwright wrote:
...anticipate the time it takes to reach a certain temperature by a
certain time?
...

Several...dags

--

Okay, thanks...

--
Wayne Boatwright
------------------------------------------------------------------------
A man is in general better pleased when he has a good dinner upon
his table, than when his wife talks Greek. Samuel Johnson

Wayne Boatwright wrote:
...anticipate the time it takes to reach a certain temperature by a certain
time?

For example, during the day while no one is home but the cats, we keep the
temperature set at 80°F. I arrive home at 5:00 p.m. and would like to have
the temperature at 75°F. when I arrive.

Rather than my having to "guess" how long it might take to reduce the
temperature by 5 degrees, is there a thermostat capable of figuring that out?

TIA

Hi,
Most programmable 'stat has that ability. It learns the temp rise/fall
pattern after you program it. One example is Honeywell Vision Pro line.
Micro-processor within is little smart. Take a look at manual which you
can download .

On Jul 22, 9:38*pm, Eric in North TX wrote:
I have a Honeywell that does that. It remembers the previous attempts
to reach the preprogramed temperature, and adjusts to try to start the
next attempt to reach it with the least time / least fuel compromise.
The only thing is, here in Texas the weather swings wildly at certain
times of year, confusing it somewhat. but overall it is a good
system.



Wayne Boatwright wrote:
...anticipate the time it takes to reach a certain temperature by a certain
time?

For example, during the day while no one is home but the cats, we keep the
temperature set at 80 F. *I arrive home at 5:00 p.m. and would like to have
the temperature at 75 F. when I arrive.

Rather than my having to "guess" how long it might take to reduce the
temperature by 5 degrees, is there a thermostat capable of figuring that out?

TIA

--
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * Wayne Boatwright
------------------------------------------------------------------------
* * I doubt whether the world holds for any one a more soul stirring
* * surprise than the first adventure with ice cream. *Heywood Broun

I have one here in michigan... after a few unusually cold nights, and
a drafty front door, I found my system had "learned" to turn itself on
at 3 am in order to hit the desired temp by 7...
I turned the "smart" feature off, and suffer thru the 1 degree
difference in temp if its a cold night now.

Dave

Tony Hwang wrote:
Wayne Boatwright wrote:
...anticipate the time it takes to reach a certain temperature by a
certain time?

For example, during the day while no one is home but the cats, we keep
the temperature set at 80°F. I arrive home at 5:00 p.m. and would
like to have the temperature at 75°F. when I arrive.
Rather than my having to "guess" how long it might take to reduce the
temperature by 5 degrees, is there a thermostat capable of figuring
that out?

TIA

Hi,
Most programmable 'stat has that ability. It learns the temp rise/fall
pattern after you program it. One example is Honeywell Vision Pro line.
Micro-processor within is little smart. Take a look at manual which you
can download .

not even that fancy. I have a trane one that I believe is a relabeled
Honeywell, but not Vision Pro. Seems to work well; at least I've never
come home to a sweltering house or awakened cold.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

Nate Nagel wrote:
Tony Hwang wrote:
Wayne Boatwright wrote:
...anticipate the time it takes to reach a certain temperature by a
certain time?

For example, during the day while no one is home but the cats, we
keep the temperature set at 80°F. I arrive home at 5:00 p.m. and
would like to have the temperature at 75°F. when I arrive. Rather
than my having to "guess" how long it might take to reduce the
temperature by 5 degrees, is there a thermostat capable of figuring
that out?

TIA

Hi,
Most programmable 'stat has that ability. It learns the temp rise/fall
pattern after you program it. One example is Honeywell Vision Pro line.
Micro-processor within is little smart. Take a look at manual which
you can download .

not even that fancy. I have a trane one that I believe is a relabeled
Honeywell, but not Vision Pro. Seems to work well; at least I've never
come home to a sweltering house or awakened cold.

nate

Hi.
I loved Vision Pro 8000 series. Now I only have one out at my cabin.
I moved onto wireless 'stats for other places I own.

In article on Wed, 22 Jul
2009 19:13:53 -0700, Steve Daniels wrote:

On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 00:33:16 GMT, against all advice, something
compelled Wayne Boatwright , to
say:

...anticipate the time it takes to reach a certain temperature by a certain
time?


Yes. They are made by Honeywell

The upper end White-Rodgers thermostats can do that, too. Look for
units with the feature called "Energy Management Recovery (EMR)"


--
Seth Goodman

"Wayne Boatwright" wrote in message
5.247...
...anticipate the time it takes to reach a certain temperature by a
certain
time?

For example, during the day while no one is home but the cats, we keep the
temperature set at 80°F. I arrive home at 5:00 p.m. and would like to
have
the temperature at 75°F. when I arrive.

Rather than my having to "guess" how long it might take to reduce the
temperature by 5 degrees, is there a thermostat capable of figuring that
out?

TIA

--
Wayne Boatwright

I had two programmable thermostats removed, and cheepos put in their place.
Unless you are homebound and have the exact same schedule week to week,
there is always times when the units are running and no one's home, or it's
too hot or too cold. Saved a lot of money. We live in hell. Couple of
days ago, it was 113. We leave the windows open during the day, as leaving
on the AC is just a waste. From the time we get home, it takes only about
fifteen minutes to cool down the house. Then at about ten, we open it up
again, as the night time temps are very cool. I don't think fifteen minutes
is a long time to wait, when given the choice of $$$$$ more each month.

Steve

In article ,
"SteveB" wrote:

"Wayne Boatwright" wrote in message
5.247...
...anticipate the time it takes to reach a certain temperature by a
certain
time?

For example, during the day while no one is home but the cats, we keep the
temperature set at 80°F. I arrive home at 5:00 p.m. and would like to
have
the temperature at 75°F. when I arrive.

Rather than my having to "guess" how long it might take to reduce the
temperature by 5 degrees, is there a thermostat capable of figuring that
out?

TIA

--
Wayne Boatwright

I had two programmable thermostats removed, and cheepos put in their place.
Unless you are homebound and have the exact same schedule week to week,
there is always times when the units are running and no one's home, or it's
too hot or too cold. Saved a lot of money. We live in hell. Couple of
days ago, it was 113. We leave the windows open during the day, as leaving
on the AC is just a waste. From the time we get home, it takes only about
fifteen minutes to cool down the house. Then at about ten, we open it up
again, as the night time temps are very cool. I don't think fifteen minutes
is a long time to wait, when given the choice of $$$$$ more each month.

Steve

So your A/C cools the house from 113 to habitable in fifteen minutes?

On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 21:53:39 -0600, "SteveB"
wrote:


I had two programmable thermostats removed, and cheepos put in their place.
Unless you are homebound and have the exact same schedule week to week,
there is always times when the units are running and no one's home, or it's
too hot or too cold.

What I would like is a programmable stat with a NEXT key that would go
to the next scheduled tmeperature period.

Becase you're right, sometimes we get up early or come home early and
all I want to do is press NEXT and have it now strive for the temp it
would in the next time period. Instead, what all that I've seen tell
you do to is to press a bunch of buttons to set the temperature for
now to some other temp. NEXT would be so simple.

I didn't think of it myself. I saw it on a stat maybe 20 years ago,
but I wasn't ready to buy a second one then, and now I can't find this
kind.

Does anyone know who sells something like this?

In article ,
mm wrote:

On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 21:53:39 -0600, "SteveB"
wrote:


I had two programmable thermostats removed, and cheepos put in their place.
Unless you are homebound and have the exact same schedule week to week,
there is always times when the units are running and no one's home, or it's
too hot or too cold.

What I would like is a programmable stat with a NEXT key that would go
to the next scheduled tmeperature period.

Becase you're right, sometimes we get up early or come home early and
all I want to do is press NEXT and have it now strive for the temp it
would in the next time period. Instead, what all that I've seen tell
you do to is to press a bunch of buttons to set the temperature for
now to some other temp. NEXT would be so simple.

I didn't think of it myself. I saw it on a stat maybe 20 years ago,
but I wasn't ready to buy a second one then, and now I can't find this
kind.

Does anyone know who sells something like this?

Bluetooth is on the way. You know, your alarm clock talks to your coffee
pot, your refrigerator talks to your air conditioner, your washing
machine talks to your water heater. And of course, your car tells your
t-stat where you are, and when you'll be home. Then once you can't wipe
your ass without a computer keeping track of everything for you, god
will unleash the Mother Of All Viruses, and wet his diapers laughing.

On Wed 22 Jul 2009 07:23:00p, Tony Hwang told us...

Wayne Boatwright wrote:
...anticipate the time it takes to reach a certain temperature by a
certain time?

For example, during the day while no one is home but the cats, we keep
the temperature set at 80°F. I arrive home at 5:00 p.m. and would like
to have the temperature at 75°F. when I arrive.

Rather than my having to "guess" how long it might take to reduce the
temperature by 5 degrees, is there a thermostat capable of figuring
that out?

TIA

Hi,
Most programmable 'stat has that ability. It learns the temp rise/fall
pattern after you program it. One example is Honeywell Vision Pro line.
Micro-processor within is little smart. Take a look at manual which you
can download .


Thanks, Tony. I've since looked at the range of Honeywell models, and
think model RTH2310 would easily suit my needs. Our schedule and lifestyle
doesn't require anything too sophisticated. It's a 5 + 2 program. Our M-F
would be consistently the same, as would our Sat-Sun, and this one would do
the job.

--
Wayne Boatwright
------------------------------------------------------------------------
The more you eat, the less flavor; the less you eat, the more
flavor. Chinese Proverb

Smitty Two wrote:
In article ,
"SteveB" wrote:

"Wayne Boatwright" wrote in message
5.247...
...anticipate the time it takes to reach a certain temperature by a
certain
time?

For example, during the day while no one is home but the cats, we keep the
temperature set at 80°F. I arrive home at 5:00 p.m. and would like to
have
the temperature at 75°F. when I arrive.

Rather than my having to "guess" how long it might take to reduce the
temperature by 5 degrees, is there a thermostat capable of figuring that
out?

TIA

--
Wayne Boatwright
I had two programmable thermostats removed, and cheepos put in their place.
Unless you are homebound and have the exact same schedule week to week,
there is always times when the units are running and no one's home, or it's
too hot or too cold. Saved a lot of money. We live in hell. Couple of
days ago, it was 113. We leave the windows open during the day, as leaving
on the AC is just a waste. From the time we get home, it takes only about
fifteen minutes to cool down the house. Then at about ten, we open it up
again, as the night time temps are very cool. I don't think fifteen minutes
is a long time to wait, when given the choice of $$$$$ more each month.

Steve

So your A/C cools the house from 113 to habitable in fifteen minutes?

It may be possible in a low humidity environment but not
here in Alabamastan. It would take more like 15 hours
with the humidity we have. I spent some time in the
country of Californiastan about 20 years ago and were
I was working, the dry wind was blowing off the desert
and the air temp was 105. My shirt was dry, even my
under arms. When the temperature hits 105 here at home,
my shoes are wet, every stitch of clothing is soaked
with sweat which drips off my elbows like a leaking
faucet. If it weren't for air conditioning those Damn
Yankees would fly home every summer. *snicker*

TDD

On Wed 22 Jul 2009 08:53:39p, SteveB told us...


"Wayne Boatwright" wrote in message
5.247...
...anticipate the time it takes to reach a certain temperature by a
certain time?

For example, during the day while no one is home but the cats, we keep
the temperature set at 80°F. I arrive home at 5:00 p.m. and would like
to have the temperature at 75°F. when I arrive.

Rather than my having to "guess" how long it might take to reduce the
temperature by 5 degrees, is there a thermostat capable of figuring
that out?

TIA

--
Wayne Boatwright

I had two programmable thermostats removed, and cheepos put in their
place. Unless you are homebound and have the exact same schedule week to
week, there is always times when the units are running and no one's
home, or it's too hot or too cold. Saved a lot of money. We live in
hell. Couple of days ago, it was 113. We leave the windows open during
the day, as leaving on the AC is just a waste. From the time we get
home, it takes only about fifteen minutes to cool down the house. Then
at about ten, we open it up again, as the night time temps are very
cool. I don't think fifteen minutes is a long time to wait, when given
the choice of $$$$$ more each month.

Steve

Obviously our situations are different. But first of all, if your AC can
drop your temp from 113 down to 75-80 degrees in 15 minutes, I'd say it's
seriously oversized. Our unit is sized correctly to maintain virtually any
temperature we set, but it take 45-60 minutes to drop it from 80 to 75
degrees when it's 110 degrees + outside. We live in the desert, southeast
of Phoenix, so we frequently see summer temperatures well above 110
degrees. Considering that we're also subject to frequent dust storms and
are not at home during the daytime, I would nver consider leaving the
windows open. We also have 5 indoor cats and several aquariums which would
not likely survive temperatures above 90 degrees. Case in point, two years
ago our compressor went out and it was two days before we could get it
replaced. We moved ourselves and our cats to a motel, but the aquariums
were cooked, both fish and plants. That, plus our cats were obviously
suffering in the high indoor heat. We have a 13 seer unit and maintain 80
degrees daytime temperatures when we're not at home, dropping it to 75
degrees from the time we get home until we leave for work the next day, as
well as all during the weekend. During the winter we maintain 70-72
degrees throughout the season, day and night. We've been doing all this
manually, and our electric bill is proof enough that we're saving money.
I'd just like to automate it so we don't have to think about it. Our
weekday and weekend schedules are at least 95% consistent.



--
Wayne Boatwright
------------------------------------------------------------------------
We plan, we toil, we suffer in the hope of what? A camel load of
idol's eyes? The title deeds of Radio City? The empire of Asia?
A trip to the moon? No, no, no, no. Simply to wake just in time
to smell coffee and bacon and eggs. J.B. Priestly

On Wed 22 Jul 2009 10:47:40p, The Daring Dufas told us...

Smitty Two wrote:
In article ,
"SteveB" wrote:

"Wayne Boatwright" wrote in message
5.247...
...anticipate the time it takes to reach a certain temperature by a
certain time?

For example, during the day while no one is home but the cats, we
keep the temperature set at 80°F. I arrive home at 5:00 p.m. and
would like to have the temperature at 75°F. when I arrive.

Rather than my having to "guess" how long it might take to reduce the
temperature by 5 degrees, is there a thermostat capable of figuring
that out?

TIA

--
Wayne Boatwright
I had two programmable thermostats removed, and cheepos put in their
place. Unless you are homebound and have the exact same schedule week
to week, there is always times when the units are running and no one's
home, or it's too hot or too cold. Saved a lot of money. We live in
hell. Couple of days ago, it was 113. We leave the windows open
during the day, as leaving on the AC is just a waste. From the time
we get home, it takes only about fifteen minutes to cool down the
house. Then at about ten, we open it up again, as the night time
temps are very cool. I don't think fifteen minutes is a long time to
wait, when given the choice of $$$$$ more each month.

Steve

So your A/C cools the house from 113 to habitable in fifteen minutes?

It may be possible in a low humidity environment but not
here in Alabamastan. It would take more like 15 hours
with the humidity we have. I spent some time in the
country of Californiastan about 20 years ago and were
I was working, the dry wind was blowing off the desert
and the air temp was 105. My shirt was dry, even my
under arms. When the temperature hits 105 here at home,
my shoes are wet, every stitch of clothing is soaked
with sweat which drips off my elbows like a leaking
faucet. If it weren't for air conditioning those Damn
Yankees would fly home every summer. *snicker*

TDD


An improperly oversized unit can certainly produce those kinds of results,
however it's an impractical solution. Here in Arizona where our summer
temperatures can easily run as high as 115-118 degrees, the humidity is
typically low except during our monsoon season. In spite of that, dropping
a temperature by 40 degrees is near nigh impossible with a properly sized
unit. A properly designed unit simply isn't designed to do that.

When an AC system is properly designed and sized for the space, it should
actually be running more than it is off. One of the main reasons is to
allow the unit to remove as much humidity as possible. An oversized unit
will cycle on briefly and reduce the temperature, but fail to remove the
maximum amount of humidity, so the atmosphere becomes cool and damp.

--
Wayne Boatwright
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Some people have a foolish way of not minding, or pretending not to
mind, what they eat. For my part, I mind my belly very studiously,
and very carefully; for I look upon it, that he who does not mind
his belly, will hardly mind anything else. Samuel Johnson

Wayne Boatwright wrote:
....
When an AC system is properly designed and sized for the space, it should
actually be running more than it is off. One of the main reasons is to
allow the unit to remove as much humidity as possible. ...

In arid/desert country, dewpoints when temperatures are in the 100s may
be as low as in the 20s-30s range (RH may be 10%). Ain't much point in
worrying about taking out "excess" humidity...even if didn't condense
any water, RH of cooled air might only be in the 40-50%RH range...

--

Wayne Boatwright wrote:
On Wed 22 Jul 2009 10:47:40p, The Daring Dufas told us...

Smitty Two wrote:
In article ,
"SteveB" wrote:

"Wayne Boatwright" wrote in message
5.247...
...anticipate the time it takes to reach a certain temperature by a
certain time?

For example, during the day while no one is home but the cats, we
keep the temperature set at 80°F. I arrive home at 5:00 p.m. and
would like to have the temperature at 75°F. when I arrive.

Rather than my having to "guess" how long it might take to reduce the
temperature by 5 degrees, is there a thermostat capable of figuring
that out?

TIA

--
Wayne Boatwright
I had two programmable thermostats removed, and cheepos put in their
place. Unless you are homebound and have the exact same schedule week
to week, there is always times when the units are running and no one's
home, or it's too hot or too cold. Saved a lot of money. We live in
hell. Couple of days ago, it was 113. We leave the windows open
during the day, as leaving on the AC is just a waste. From the time
we get home, it takes only about fifteen minutes to cool down the
house. Then at about ten, we open it up again, as the night time
temps are very cool. I don't think fifteen minutes is a long time to
wait, when given the choice of $$$$$ more each month.

Steve
So your A/C cools the house from 113 to habitable in fifteen minutes?
It may be possible in a low humidity environment but not
here in Alabamastan. It would take more like 15 hours
with the humidity we have. I spent some time in the
country of Californiastan about 20 years ago and were
I was working, the dry wind was blowing off the desert
and the air temp was 105. My shirt was dry, even my
under arms. When the temperature hits 105 here at home,
my shoes are wet, every stitch of clothing is soaked
with sweat which drips off my elbows like a leaking
faucet. If it weren't for air conditioning those Damn
Yankees would fly home every summer. *snicker*

TDD


An improperly oversized unit can certainly produce those kinds of results,
however it's an impractical solution. Here in Arizona where our summer
temperatures can easily run as high as 115-118 degrees, the humidity is
typically low except during our monsoon season. In spite of that, dropping
a temperature by 40 degrees is near nigh impossible with a properly sized
unit. A properly designed unit simply isn't designed to do that.

When an AC system is properly designed and sized for the space, it should
actually be running more than it is off. One of the main reasons is to
allow the unit to remove as much humidity as possible. An oversized unit
will cycle on briefly and reduce the temperature, but fail to remove the
maximum amount of humidity, so the atmosphere becomes cool and damp.


Well, I know a little about refrigeration and air conditioning.
The last big one I worked on was a four thousand ton Carrier
centrifugal chiller and Sunday I helped a friend swap out a
1&1/2 ton compressor at his home. The line set on the ton and
a half was a little smaller than that on the 4K ton unit. *snicker*

TDD

Wayne Boatwright wrote:
On Wed 22 Jul 2009 07:23:00p, Tony Hwang told us...

Wayne Boatwright wrote:
...anticipate the time it takes to reach a certain temperature by a
certain time?

For example, during the day while no one is home but the cats, we keep
the temperature set at 80°F. I arrive home at 5:00 p.m. and would like
to have the temperature at 75°F. when I arrive.

Rather than my having to "guess" how long it might take to reduce the
temperature by 5 degrees, is there a thermostat capable of figuring
that out?

TIA

Hi,
Most programmable 'stat has that ability. It learns the temp rise/fall
pattern after you program it. One example is Honeywell Vision Pro line.
Micro-processor within is little smart. Take a look at manual which you
can download .


Thanks, Tony. I've since looked at the range of Honeywell models, and
think model RTH2310 would easily suit my needs. Our schedule and lifestyle
doesn't require anything too sophisticated. It's a 5 + 2 program. Our M-F
would be consistently the same, as would our Sat-Sun, and this one would do
the job.

Hi,
My choice is Vision Pro 8000(often it's over kill). Nice touch screen,
arm chair programming, Very accurate temp. keeping. I used to set it 5+2
day pattern. In summer or winter when we get up in the morning or come
home in the afternoon we never felt too cold or hot 'stat did the job
for us. Now I moved onto wireless one. I can move it to any area of the
house. I live in Southern Alberta where air is very dry particularly in
cold winter.

dpb wrote:
Wayne Boatwright wrote:
...
When an AC system is properly designed and sized for the space, it
should actually be running more than it is off. One of the main
reasons is to allow the unit to remove as much humidity as possible. ...

In arid/desert country, dewpoints when temperatures are in the 100s may
be as low as in the 20s-30s range (RH may be 10%). Ain't much point in
worrying about taking out "excess" humidity...even if didn't condense
any water, RH of cooled air might only be in the 40-50%RH range...

--

That's why swamp coolers work there, ain't it?

TDD

On Wed 22 Jul 2009 11:29:44p, dpb told us...

Wayne Boatwright wrote:
...
When an AC system is properly designed and sized for the space, it
should
actually be running more than it is off. One of the main reasons is to
allow the unit to remove as much humidity as possible. ...

In arid/desert country, dewpoints when temperatures are in the 100s may
be as low as in the 20s-30s range (RH may be 10%). Ain't much point in
worrying about taking out "excess" humidity...even if didn't condense
any water, RH of cooled air might only be in the 40-50%RH range...

That's generally true except during monsoon season where the dewpoint may
easily reach 55-60 or greater, the very reason why swamp coolers are
relatively uselss during that season, since they only add to the humidity.
AC does help to reduce the RH to comfortable levels and genuinely cool the
air. Even with low humidity, I'm still able to collect condensate that I
use for watering houseplants, so obviously the AC is pulling humidity out
of the air.

--
Wayne Boatwright
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh, the tiger will love you. There is no sincerer love than the
love of food. George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

On Wed 22 Jul 2009 11:36:15p, The Daring Dufas told us...

Wayne Boatwright wrote:
On Wed 22 Jul 2009 10:47:40p, The Daring Dufas told us...

Smitty Two wrote:
In article ,
"SteveB" wrote:

"Wayne Boatwright" wrote in
message 5.247...
...anticipate the time it takes to reach a certain temperature by a
certain time?

For example, during the day while no one is home but the cats, we
keep the temperature set at 80°F. I arrive home at 5:00 p.m. and
would like to have the temperature at 75°F. when I arrive.

Rather than my having to "guess" how long it might take to reduce
the temperature by 5 degrees, is there a thermostat capable of
figuring that out?

TIA

--
Wayne Boatwright
I had two programmable thermostats removed, and cheepos put in their
place. Unless you are homebound and have the exact same schedule
week to week, there is always times when the units are running and
no one's home, or it's too hot or too cold. Saved a lot of money.
We live in hell. Couple of days ago, it was 113. We leave the
windows open during the day, as leaving on the AC is just a waste.
From the time we get home, it takes only about fifteen minutes to
cool down the house. Then at about ten, we open it up again, as the
night time temps are very cool. I don't think fifteen minutes is a
long time to wait, when given the choice of $$$$$ more each month.

Steve
So your A/C cools the house from 113 to habitable in fifteen minutes?
It may be possible in a low humidity environment but not
here in Alabamastan. It would take more like 15 hours
with the humidity we have. I spent some time in the
country of Californiastan about 20 years ago and were
I was working, the dry wind was blowing off the desert
and the air temp was 105. My shirt was dry, even my
under arms. When the temperature hits 105 here at home, my shoes are
wet, every stitch of clothing is soaked with sweat which drips off my
elbows like a leaking faucet. If it weren't for air conditioning those
Damn Yankees would fly home every summer. *snicker*

TDD


An improperly oversized unit can certainly produce those kinds of
results, however it's an impractical solution. Here in Arizona where
our summer temperatures can easily run as high as 115-118 degrees, the
humidity is typically low except during our monsoon season. In spite
of that, dropping a temperature by 40 degrees is near nigh impossible
with a properly sized unit. A properly designed unit simply isn't
designed to do that.

When an AC system is properly designed and sized for the space, it
should actually be running more than it is off. One of the main
reasons is to allow the unit to remove as much humidity as possible.
An oversized unit will cycle on briefly and reduce the temperature, but
fail to remove the maximum amount of humidity, so the atmosphere
becomes cool and damp.


Well, I know a little about refrigeration and air conditioning.
The last big one I worked on was a four thousand ton Carrier
centrifugal chiller and Sunday I helped a friend swap out a
1&1/2 ton compressor at his home. The line set on the ton and
a half was a little smaller than that on the 4K ton unit. *snicker*

TDD


Yes, I imagine it would be. :-) My dad was an HVAC engineer with the York
Corp. for many years. Primarily he designed various climate control
systems for very large scale installations, although occasionally piddled
with residential appliations. I absorbed quite a bit from him while I was
growing up and surrounded by his work, as he did a lot of work at home.

--
Wayne Boatwright
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Most of the food allergies die under garlic and onion. Martin H.
Fischer

On Wed 22 Jul 2009 11:38:46p, The Daring Dufas told us...

dpb wrote:
Wayne Boatwright wrote: ...
When an AC system is properly designed and sized for the space, it
should actually be running more than it is off. One of the main
reasons
is to allow the unit to remove as much humidity as possible. ...

In arid/desert country, dewpoints when temperatures are in the 100s may
be as low as in the 20s-30s range (RH may be 10%). Ain't much point in
worrying about taking out "excess" humidity...even if didn't condense
any water, RH of cooled air might only be in the 40-50%RH range...

--

That's why swamp coolers work there, ain't it?

TDD


They work reasonably well during the non-monsoon season, especially if
you're not expecting extreme cooling and don't mind a fair amount of
humidity introduced into your living space. They definitely beat having
nothing. For economy reasons, many people have both swamp coolers and AC,
and use each according to their peak operation during the varyiing humidity
conditions.

--
Wayne Boatwright
------------------------------------------------------------------------
If soup isn't hot enough to make a grown man wince, it's
undrinkable. Grey Livingston

Wayne Boatwright wrote:
windows open. We also have 5 indoor cats and several aquariums which would
not likely survive temperatures above 90 degrees. Case in point, two years
ago our compressor went out and it was two days before we could get it
replaced. We moved ourselves and our cats to a motel, but the aquariums
were cooked, both fish and plants. That, plus our cats were obviously
suffering in the high indoor heat.

similar to having a generator for backup in blackout or storm conditions,
why do you not have a backup window unit which would take just a few minutes
to hookup and spare yourself this kind of situation? they are cheap too.

most people where I live have couple spare portable a/c units, small enough
that they can be run via a generator and while they may not keep whole house
in the 70's, they certainly will keep sections of house close to 80 F

several of my neighbors have now installed permanent backup A/C systems
in the form of ductless heatpumps. these inverter models draw just 300-650w
of power and provide a nice and efficient backup system and even in normal
operation reduce the load on the main system. as you know, a heatpump is
simply an A/C with a reversing valve to produce both cool and heat from same
coil, no separate electric strips required.

On Thu 23 Jul 2009 03:44:28a, hank told us...

Wayne Boatwright wrote:
windows open. We also have 5 indoor cats and several aquariums which
would not likely survive temperatures above 90 degrees. Case in point,
two years ago our compressor went out and it was two days before we
could get it replaced. We moved ourselves and our cats to a motel, but
the aquariums were cooked, both fish and plants. That, plus our cats
were obviously suffering in the high indoor heat.

similar to having a generator for backup in blackout or storm
conditions, why do you not have a backup window unit which would take
just a few minutes to hookup and spare yourself this kind of situation?
they are cheap too.

Funny you should mention that, Hank. I think we had a knee jerk reaction
when our compressor blew out and we bolted for the motel. Since then we
have installed two window units, one in our master bedroom and one in the
room where we keep our aquariums. The bedroom is larg enough to corral
ourselves and our cats during an AC outage.

most people where I live have couple spare portable a/c units, small
enough that they can be run via a generator and while they may not keep
whole house in the 70's, they certainly will keep sections of house
close to 80 F

Luckily, we live in an area where very infrequent power outages never last
more than 15-30 minutes, so I doubt we really need a generator. We haven't
even had a short outage in the past 3-4 years. Certainly a good idea where
power outages are more prevalent.

several of my neighbors have now installed permanent backup A/C systems
in the form of ductless heatpumps. these inverter models draw just
300-650w of power and provide a nice and efficient backup system and
even in normal operation reduce the load on the main system. as you
know, a heatpump is simply an A/C with a reversing valve to produce both
cool and heat from same coil, no separate electric strips required.

Our main forced air system is a heatpump. However, in our climate, we
really don't need to consider emergency heating. During the winter I doubt
our heat goes on more than a few times, and then only briefly. Funny you
should mention auxillary heatpump units. Back in the 1950s, York made
sizeable window units that had reversing valves. We had three such units
in our house which cooled/heated the entire house effectively. They hadn't
yet started calling them heatpumps, thoughl.

--
Wayne Boatwright
------------------------------------------------------------------------
At the end of every diet, the path curves back toward the trough.
Mason Cooley

Wayne Boatwright wrote:
...anticipate the time it takes to reach a certain temperature by a certain
time?

For example, during the day while no one is home but the cats, we keep the
temperature set at 80°F. I arrive home at 5:00 p.m. and would like to have
the temperature at 75°F. when I arrive.

Rather than my having to "guess" how long it might take to reduce the
temperature by 5 degrees, is there a thermostat capable of figuring that out?

TIA


yes, the honeywell vision pro series will 'learn' exactly like you are
talking about.


s

On Jul 22, 11:53*pm, "SteveB" wrote:
"Wayne Boatwright" wrote in message

5.247...





...anticipate the time it takes to reach a certain temperature by a
certain
time?

For example, during the day while no one is home but the cats, we keep the
temperature set at 80°F. *I arrive home at 5:00 p.m. and would like to
have
the temperature at 75°F. when I arrive.

Rather than my having to "guess" how long it might take to reduce the
temperature by 5 degrees, is there a thermostat capable of figuring that
out?

TIA

--
* * * * * * * * * * * * * *Wayne Boatwright

I had two programmable thermostats removed, and cheepos put in their place.
Unless you are homebound and have the exact same schedule week to week,
there is always times when the units are running and no one's home, or it's
too hot or too cold. *Saved a lot of money. *We live in hell. *Couple of
days ago, it was 113. *We leave the windows open during the day, as leaving
on the AC is just a waste. *From the time we get home, it takes only about
fifteen minutes to cool down the house. *Then at about ten, we open it up
again, as the night time temps are very cool. *I don't think fifteen minutes
is a long time to wait, when given the choice of $$$$$ more each month.

Steve

By cheepos, I assume you mean non-programmable ones? I don't see
the problem. Sure, in most cases there are many times when you want
to deviate from the programmed temps. But that really isn't much
harder to do than with a conventional thermostat. All you do is push
an up/down button to get the temp you want. And if you want it to
remain there regardless of the next scheduled change, you just push
the hold button. The obvious advantage to the programmables are that
there are many times when having it do it's scheduled thing is
advantageous. Like setting heat back at night and having the temp
back up BEFORE you wake up in an cold house.


And I'd sure like to see the AC system that takes a house from 113 to
75 in 15 minutes. Even a grossly over-sized unit, say 2X, isn't
capable of anything near that.

chrisc had written this in response to
http://www.thestuccocompany.com/main...an-385217-.htm
:
Good afternoon Wayne,

I saw your post on Goggle and have just signed up to this blog so that I
could respond. Disclosure, I work with a company called ecobee and we have
recently launched a product called the ecobee Smart Thermostat. The
details are available at www.ecobee.com. It has all of the features and
functionality that you are asking about. The ecobee customer service
department can be reached at 877-932-6233 if you have any further
questions.

Regards,

Chris Carradine.

Wayne Boatwright wrote:


...anticipate the time it takes to reach a certain temperature by a
certain
time?

For example, during the day while no one is home but the cats, we keep
the
temperature set at 80°F. I arrive home at 5:00 p.m. and would like to
have
the temperature at 75°F. when I arrive.

Rather than my having to "guess" how long it might take to
reduce the
temperature by 5 degrees, is there a thermostat capable of figuring
that out?

TIA


-------------------------------------




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On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 17:54:12 -0700 (PDT), Larry The Snake Guy
wrote:

I don't know the answer to your question (that's hapening a lot
today), but how much difference could it make if it sometimes gets to
75 half an hour early? I'd just set it a little early and relax.

I'm sure you could have one built (interface inside and outside
thermometers and the AC to a small computer). It still could be wildly
inaccurate sometimes, because the weather conditions could change
drastically between the time it decides to start and the time you
expect it to be at your set temperature.


I had one that used the rate the temperature changed when it
called for heat or cold to determine needed start time to reach a
given temperature. All you did was set it for the temperatures you
wanted when it then give it a few days to figure it out and it was
good. A sudden big change in outside temperature did fool it a
little, but it was very good. As I recall it was a Honeywell, but
not a current model.

Thanks, Chris. I'll take a look...

Wayne


On Thu 23 Jul 2009 12:12:30p, chrisc told us...

chrisc had written this in response to
http://www.thestuccocompany.com/main...rammable-therm
ostat-that-can-385217-.htm
:
Good afternoon Wayne,

I saw your post on Goggle and have just signed up to this blog so that I
could respond. Disclosure, I work with a company called ecobee and we
have recently launched a product called the ecobee Smart Thermostat. The
details are available at www.ecobee.com. It has all of the features and
functionality that you are asking about. The ecobee customer service
department can be reached at 877-932-6233 if you have any further
questions.

Regards,

Chris Carradine.

Wayne Boatwright wrote:


...anticipate the time it takes to reach a certain temperature by a
certain time?

For example, during the day while no one is home but the cats, we keep
the temperature set at 80°F. I arrive home at 5:00 p.m. and would
like to have the temperature at 75°F. when I arrive.

Rather than my having to "guess" how long it might take to
reduce the
temperature by 5 degrees, is there a thermostat capable of figuring
that out?

TIA




--
Wayne Boatwright
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Condensed milk is wonderful. I don't see how they can get a cow to
sit down on those little cans. Fred Allen

On Wed 22 Jul 2009 11:38:41p, Tony Hwang told us...

Wayne Boatwright wrote:
On Wed 22 Jul 2009 07:23:00p, Tony Hwang told us...

Wayne Boatwright wrote:
...anticipate the time it takes to reach a certain temperature by a
certain time?

For example, during the day while no one is home but the cats, we
keep the temperature set at 80°F. I arrive home at 5:00 p.m. and
would like to have the temperature at 75°F. when I arrive.

Rather than my having to "guess" how long it might take to reduce the
temperature by 5 degrees, is there a thermostat capable of figuring
that out?

TIA

Hi,
Most programmable 'stat has that ability. It learns the temp rise/fall
pattern after you program it. One example is Honeywell Vision Pro
line. Micro-processor within is little smart. Take a look at manual
which you can download .


Thanks, Tony. I've since looked at the range of Honeywell models, and
think model RTH2310 would easily suit my needs. Our schedule and
lifestyle doesn't require anything too sophisticated. It's a 5 + 2
program. Our M-F would be consistently the same, as would our Sat-Sun,
and this one would do the job.

Hi,
My choice is Vision Pro 8000(often it's over kill). Nice touch screen,
arm chair programming, Very accurate temp. keeping. I used to set it 5+2
day pattern. In summer or winter when we get up in the morning or come
home in the afternoon we never felt too cold or hot 'stat did the job
for us. Now I moved onto wireless one. I can move it to any area of the
house. I live in Southern Alberta where air is very dry particularly in
cold winter.


We all have our "toys", eh Tony? It actually would be overkill for me, as
I just want to get the job done. My "toys" are more closely related to
high end kitchen gear, both large and small.

It occurred to me today, however, that the 5+2 isn't actually ideal for me
because I always work at home on Fridays and would require the same
settings Friday thru Sunday, then different settings for Monday thru
Thursday. There is a similar model to the one I mention which allows 7-day
individual programming, so that's probably what I'll buy.

I am curious about the wireless thermostat you now have. I was unaware
they existed.

--
Wayne Boatwright
------------------------------------------------------------------------
A converted cannibal is one who, on Friday, eats only fishermen.
Emily Lotney

On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 19:33:37 -0700 (PDT), Zephyr
wrote:

I have one here in michigan... after a few unusually cold nights, and
a drafty front door, I found my system had "learned" to turn itself on
at 3 am in order to hit the desired temp by 7...
I turned the "smart" feature off, and suffer thru the 1 degree
difference in temp if its a cold night now.


I turned the feature off after waking up sweating because the furnace
decided it had to turn itself on an hour before it was time to get up
just to hit the temperature on a cold morning. I'd rather suffer a
little and just have it start fifteen minutes before time to get up.