going to use 10 treated 4x6 posts as foundation for 10x12 shed.....guy at
menards sugested coating with tar to extend life. sounded like good idea to
me...also building inspector guy advised me not to concrete posts in ground
or frost will be problem.....dig holes 48" then concrete in bottom of hole
and posts sit on the concrete....sound OK? Thanks

wrote:

going to use 10 treated 4x6 posts as foundation for 10x12 shed.....

4 x 6 posts?

Are they square? Do you mean 4 x 4 or 6 x 6 posts?

So you're not going to have a poured concrete pad or floor for this
shed?

guy at menards sugested coating with tar to extend life.

He might mean creosote. Paint the in-ground portion with creosote
(several coats) - let it dry in the sun between coats.

sounded like good idea to me...

I've done it. Wood posts (6" x 6") set into 1-foot diam. concrete posts
(piers) set 4 feet in the ground.

also building inspector guy advised me not to concrete posts
in ground or frost will be problem.....dig holes 48" then
concrete in bottom of hole and posts sit on the concrete...
.sound OK? Thanks

What is the frost line in your area? 4 feet is about the deepest you
need to go in northern US and Canada except possibly Alaska.

You can do 10" holes (12" if necessary), get cardboard sono-tubes, set
your creosote-painted posts in the holes and then pour concrete. Have
the top of the concrete come to at least 2" above grade - 6" is better.
Throw some 1/2" rebar into the concrete (2 or 3 pieces, each one 4-ft
long). That will make it indestructable.

Mix the concrete properly. NOT TOO SOUPY. USE AS LITTLE WATER AS YOU
CAN. CLEAN SAND AND CLEAN 1/2" CRUSHED STONE.

Use a tamper (or rent a vibrator) to properly place the concrete
(important when you minimize the water content).

All concrete shrinks when it cures. The more water you use, the more it
shrinks. A concrete pier shrinking around a wood post will result in
cracks radiating from the corners of wood post. The rebar will help
hold the pier together if that happens.

The concrete will also protect the wood post from rotting. But only if
you properly mix and place the concrete. If you just throw some cement,
sand and stone in the hole (or the pre-mixed concrete stuff) and pour
some water on it, you'll just end up with ****.

wrote:
going to use 10 treated 4x6 posts as foundation for 10x12 shed.....guy at
menards sugested coating with tar to extend life. sounded like good idea to
me...also building inspector guy advised me not to concrete posts in ground
or frost will be problem.....dig holes 48" then concrete in bottom of hole
and posts sit on the concrete....sound OK? Thanks

It is a little more concrete to mix, but correct answer is to pour
rebarred concrete piers (probably using the cardboard Sonotube forms),
and drop a big J-bolt in the top to anchor a metal standoff plate from
Simpson or similar. You then put the 4x6 posts in the standoff plates.
Once shed is framed and squared up, you lag the posts in place through
the holes on the standoff plates. If the piers are down into undisturbed
soil, they should last essentially forever, and your timbers will
probably never rot. Piers don't have to be tall- just want them higher
than the rain splash/snow line, and tall enough to make it obvious if
any termites start building tunnels up to the wood.

If that sounds like too much work or bother, just put gravel in the
bottom of the hole, set and square the the posts, fill the sides with
tamped gravel, and maybe put a small concrete cone on top to shed rain.
Idea is never to trap wood in a concrete pocket- always give the water
someplace to go. IMHO, tar will do more harm than good, and tend to keep
the wood wet.

And unless you have strange local conditions, inspector guy sounds
clueless- if the hole is below frostline and into undisturbed soil, and
properly sized, frost heave shouldn't be a problem. Maybe he meant to
not put a big concrete mushroom on top at dirt level- that can heave
enough to yank even a deep post out of position.

--
aem sends....

"aemeijers" wrote in message
...
wrote:
going to use 10 treated 4x6 posts as foundation for 10x12 shed.....guy at
menards sugested coating with tar to extend life. sounded like good idea
to
me...also building inspector guy advised me not to concrete posts in
ground
or frost will be problem.....dig holes 48" then concrete in bottom of
hole
and posts sit on the concrete....sound OK? Thanks

It is a little more concrete to mix, but correct answer is to pour
rebarred concrete piers (probably using the cardboard Sonotube forms), and
drop a big J-bolt in the top to anchor a metal standoff plate from Simpson
or similar. You then put the 4x6 posts in the standoff plates. Once shed
is framed and squared up, you lag the posts in place through the holes on
the standoff plates. If the piers are down into undisturbed soil, they
should last essentially forever, and your timbers will probably never rot.
Piers don't have to be tall- just want them higher than the rain
splash/snow line, and tall enough to make it obvious if any termites start
building tunnels up to the wood.

If that sounds like too much work or bother, just put gravel in the bottom
of the hole, set and square the the posts, fill the sides with tamped
gravel, and maybe put a small concrete cone on top to shed rain. Idea is
never to trap wood in a concrete pocket- always give the water someplace
to go. IMHO, tar will do more harm than good, and tend to keep the wood
wet.

And unless you have strange local conditions, inspector guy sounds
clueless- if the hole is below frostline and into undisturbed soil, and
properly sized, frost heave shouldn't be a problem. Maybe he meant to not
put a big concrete mushroom on top at dirt level- that can heave enough to
yank even a deep post out of position.

--
aem sends....

Why not jusy build it on 6X6 PT skids and put it on blocks??? It is just a
shed and it will be a heck of alot easier to move when SWMBO says it would
look better over there or you decide to build on an addition or garage in
that spot...LOL...See the thread below about moving a shed...LOL....

On Jul 17, 7:26*pm, Some Guy wrote:
wrote:
going to use 10 treated 4x6 posts as foundation for 10x12 shed.....

4 x 6 posts?

Are they square? *Do you mean 4 x 4 or 6 x 6 posts?


4x6 posts have been available for as long as I can remember.


He might mean creosote. *Paint the in-ground portion with creosote
(several coats) - let it dry in the sun between coats.


Creosote, and most tar related products, are now restricted use
pesticides. You have to be licensed to buy and use it.

KC

On Jul 17, 5:59*pm, wrote:
going to use 10 treated 4x6 posts as foundation for 10x12 shed.....guy at
menards sugested coating with tar to extend life. sounded like good idea to
me...also building inspector guy advised me not to concrete posts in ground
or frost will be problem.....dig holes 48" then concrete in bottom of hole
and posts sit on the concrete....sound OK? * Thanks

You're way over-engineering a small shed. Post frame contractors
simply dig the hole, toss in a bag of premix formulated for the job,
install posts, and back fill the holes. A Morton building (larger than
your shed) in our neighborhood was finished in 1972 and still is in
service in good shape defying the Illinois winters.

Joe

"aemeijers" wrote in message
...
wrote:
going to use 10 treated 4x6 posts as foundation for 10x12 shed.....guy
at
menards sugested coating with tar to extend life. sounded like good idea
to
me...also building inspector guy advised me not to concrete posts in
ground
or frost will be problem.....dig holes 48" then concrete in bottom of
hole
and posts sit on the concrete....sound OK? Thanks

It is a little more concrete to mix, but correct answer is to pour
rebarred concrete piers (probably using the cardboard Sonotube forms),
and drop a big J-bolt in the top to anchor a metal standoff plate from
Simpson or similar. You then put the 4x6 posts in the standoff plates.
Once shed is framed and squared up, you lag the posts in place through
the holes on the standoff plates. If the piers are down into undisturbed
soil, they should last essentially forever, and your timbers will
probably never rot. Piers don't have to be tall- just want them higher
than the rain splash/snow line, and tall enough to make it obvious if any
termites start building tunnels up to the wood.

If that sounds like too much work or bother, just put gravel in the
bottom of the hole, set and square the the posts, fill the sides with
tamped gravel, and maybe put a small concrete cone on top to shed rain.
Idea is never to trap wood in a concrete pocket- always give the water
someplace to go. IMHO, tar will do more harm than good, and tend to keep
the wood wet.

And unless you have strange local conditions, inspector guy sounds
clueless- if the hole is below frostline and into undisturbed soil, and
properly sized, frost heave shouldn't be a problem. Maybe he meant to not
put a big concrete mushroom on top at dirt level- that can heave enough
to yank even a deep post out of position.


Right, good advice, don't listen to the inspector.

Around here, if the inspector says a concrete footer, gravel won't do.

Here they inspect the holes b/4 the pour & after. Here, when the inspector
says a 6" concrete footer, they don't want to see gravel. If they do, the
red tag comes out.

Footers are not something unusual. I guess it is if you don't have building
codes.

wrote in message
...
going to use 10 treated 4x6 posts as foundation for 10x12 shed.....guy at
menards sugested coating with tar to extend life. sounded like good idea
to
me...also building inspector guy advised me not to concrete posts in
ground
or frost will be problem.....dig holes 48" then concrete in bottom of
hole
and posts sit on the concrete....sound OK? Thanks

Listen to your inspector.

Make sure you get _ground contact_ 4x6's. They do make several different
kinds. Forget the tar.

KC wrote:

Are they square? Do you mean 4 x 4 or 6 x 6 posts?


4x6 posts have been available for as long as I can remember.

I've never gone out to look for 4 x 6 posts at the local big-box stores
but I've never seen any there while looking for other things.

Creosote, and most tar related products, are now restricted use
pesticides. You have to be licensed to buy and use it.

I bought a 5-gallon drum of the stuff about 7 or 8 years ago from a farm
supply place (TSC - Tractor Supply). I'd imagine that it's still
available - if only at farm supply stores.

Cabot wrote:

Around here, if the inspector says a concrete footer, gravel
won't do.

For a shed?

going to use 10 treated 4x6 posts as foundation for 10x12 shed


When I built my Dads 10 X 12, I set the finished PTL 2 X 4 frame floor on
3- 12 ft PTL 4X4's lying flat on the ground (I put a 2-3" gravel base
underneath).

Put One in the center and the "outer" two set about one foot in from the
sides. If it needed moving, I'd just drag it on these skids.
It hasnt needed to move and so its been sitting there for ten years now,
just fine. Nothing "Dug-In" or buried in the ground.

On Jul 17, 11:00*pm, Some Guy wrote:


Creosote, and most tar related products, are now restricted use
pesticides. *You have to be licensed to buy and use it.

I bought a 5-gallon drum of the stuff about 7 or 8 years ago from a farm
supply place (TSC - Tractor Supply). *I'd imagine that it's still
available - if only at farm supply stores.

Many farmers have restricted use licenses in order to buy & apply
chemicals to their ag products, so restricted use chemicals are out
there. However the business can be fined & lose their business
license if they sell to Joe Public. All sales have to be recorded.
All applications have to be recorded also and are subject to state &
federal review. I have a license and have to renew it every few
years.

The current list of EPA restricted use pesticides include coal tar,
coal tar creosote, creosote oil, and creosote solutions, because of
possible oncogenic and mutagenic effects.

"Some Guy" wrote in message
...
Cabot wrote:

Around here, if the inspector says a concrete footer, gravel
won't do.

For a shed?

What the inspector says, goes. Whether you like it or not.

When you're talking a permanent structure, going below frost line, yeah,
footers are mandatory in this neck of the woods.

The idea behind codes, are to eliminate shoddy practices.

On Jul 18, 12:02*am, Some Guy wrote:
Cabot wrote:
Around here, if the inspector says a concrete footer, gravel
won't do.

For a shed?

First time I ever heard of getting a permit for a shed too. Peerhaps
his definition of a shed is different than what I am used to

Jimmie

JIMMIE wrote:
On Jul 18, 12:02 am, Some Guy wrote:
Cabot wrote:
Around here, if the inspector says a concrete footer, gravel
won't do.
For a shed?

First time I ever heard of getting a permit for a shed too. Peerhaps
his definition of a shed is different than what I am used to

Jimmie
Varies by area. Around here, if the shed is on a foundation and/or slab,
versus just sitting on loose blocks or sleepers, it needs a permit, if
they notice. Foundation makes it a 'permanent structure'. Permanent
structures also can raise your taxes, so up-on-blocks is the usual
method here. Not sure how they would regard cast-in-place concrete
piers. Although it seldom gets real windy around here, I would at a
minimum use those mobile-home tiedown thingies on the corners, for a
shed not bolted to concrete or built on buried wood posts.

--
aem sends...

KC wrote in news:692d86cd-5536-496e-bbf3-
:

On Jul 17, 7:26*pm, Some Guy wrote:
wrote:
going to use 10 treated 4x6 posts as foundation for 10x12 shed.....

4 x 6 posts?

Are they square? *Do you mean 4 x 4 or 6 x 6 posts?


4x6 posts have been available for as long as I can remember.


I can vouch for 15-20yrs ago availability. Needed a long one.

But today I go to the damn Blue Borg to get some regular 5/4 for
cornerboards (not decking). Nope. Don't stock. And I wanted to get some
10d galv finish. Nope. 8d then next is 16d. Not even a hole or label for
them. WTF?


He might mean creosote. *Paint the in-ground portion with creosote
(several coats) - let it dry in the sun between coats.


Creosote, and most tar related products, are now restricted use
pesticides. You have to be licensed to buy and use it.

KC

replying to Red Green, glennary wrote:
i usually get longer nails and cut them down,my kids sit around the living
room at night filing points on them. We can usually do about 1000/week as long
as the kids neglect their schoolwork....

--
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