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#1
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Coleman Powermate low voltage
"HeyBub" wrote in message m... Stormin Mormon wrote: Some inverters put out modified sine, which reads about 90 volts on a digital meter. My suggestion is try a filament lamp of some kind, or maybe a hair dryer. Old style toaster, is also good. If the toaster works, you're likelly getting modified sine. And the machine is OK. I have an ETQ which has really done a good job. Never checked the voltages. It runs a toaster (Yes, I really did plug in a toaster, and try it.) Also runs a furnace, guy I knew had his power out, couple years ago. The ETQ ran his furnace nicely. Ah, good catch! If the generator is putting out a modified sine wave and the meter is measuring peak-to-peak, there's gonna be a difference. Why would a single phase generator be putting out a square wave? I imagine it may be somewhat fuzzy, but I think it pretty much has to be a sine wave. |
#2
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Coleman Powermate low voltage
It's incredibly unlikely that a small generator would put
out square wave, or mod sine. It's so much easier for a small, inexpensive generator to spin a coil, and produce natural sine. -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. "Ulysses" wrote in message ... Why would a single phase generator be putting out a square wave? I imagine it may be somewhat fuzzy, but I think it pretty much has to be a sine wave. |
#3
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Coleman Powermate low voltage
On Jun 24, 2:43�pm, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote: It's incredibly unlikely that a small generator would put out square wave, or mod sine. It's so much easier for a small, inexpensive generator to spin a coil, and produce natural sine. -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus �www.lds.org . "Ulysses" wrote in message ... Why would a single phase generator be putting out a square wave? �I imagine it may be somewhat fuzzy, but I think it pretty much has to be a sine wave. a buddy put several generators on a techtronics scope, none were nice sine waves like the power company provides |
#4
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Coleman Powermate low voltage
"Stormin Mormon" wrote in
: It's incredibly unlikely that a small generator would put out square wave, or mod sine. It's so much easier for a small, inexpensive generator to spin a coil, and produce natural sine. somehow someone was talking about inverters,which can either output square wave,modified or quasi-sq.wave,or sine wave AC. Why it came up about generators,I don't know. An AC generator is always going to output a sine wave. -- Jim Yanik jyanik at kua.net |
#5
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Coleman Powermate low voltage
I'd think so, at least the spinning coil ones. Honda has
some that have "inverter technology". Maybe the guy with the oscilloscope is picking up some harmonics, and other noise. -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. "Jim Yanik" wrote in message ... An AC generator is always going to output a sine wave. -- Jim Yanik jyanik at kua.net |
#6
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Coleman Powermate low voltage
"Stormin Mormon" wrote in
: I'd think so, at least the spinning coil ones. Honda has some that have "inverter technology". Maybe the guy with the oscilloscope is picking up some harmonics, and other noise. http://www.hondapowerequipment.com/p...t.aspx?asset=g g_inverteradvantage the generator makes "multi-phase AC",converts to DC,then uses an inverter to get back to 60hz AC. it's very possible it makes a lot of electrical noise. -- Jim Yanik jyanik at kua.net |
#7
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Coleman Powermate low voltage
"Jim Yanik" wrote in message ... "Stormin Mormon" wrote in : I'd think so, at least the spinning coil ones. Honda has some that have "inverter technology". Maybe the guy with the oscilloscope is picking up some harmonics, and other noise. http://www.hondapowerequipment.com/p...t.aspx?asset=g g_inverteradvantage the generator makes "multi-phase AC",converts to DC,then uses an inverter to get back to 60hz AC. it's very possible it makes a lot of electrical noise. You guys lost me. A Coleman is not a Honda inverter generator. Besides that, Honda claims their sine wave is better than what you get from your local utility. -- Jim Yanik jyanik at kua.net |
#8
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Coleman Powermate low voltage
"Ulysses" wrote in
: "Jim Yanik" wrote in message ... "Stormin Mormon" wrote in : I'd think so, at least the spinning coil ones. Honda has some that have "inverter technology". Maybe the guy with the oscilloscope is picking up some harmonics, and other noise. http://www.hondapowerequipment.com/p...ntent.aspx?ass et=g g_inverteradvantage the generator makes "multi-phase AC",converts to DC,then uses an inverter to get back to 60hz AC. it's very possible it makes a lot of electrical noise. You guys lost me. A Coleman is not a Honda inverter generator. Well,the OP mentioned "inverters" and MY post questioned why an inverter was used when the generator already makes a sine wave output. Then someone else mentioned Honda,and I researched that to answer my own question. Besides that, Honda claims their sine wave is better than what you get from your local utility. -- Jim Yanik jyanik at kua.net generating a sine wave from a DC supply requires switching large currents.the switchuing generates harmonics. Now,the sine wave output may be very clean and right on freq,but the inverter's switching circuitry may radiate those harmonics,that could be picked up by other instruments. It takes very careful design to minimize radiated noise. -- Jim Yanik jyanik at kua.net |
#9
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Coleman Powermate low voltage
I have a similar problem with my 1850 but the output voltage drops at about 1100 watts load. The diodes appear ok, but I have no way to test the varistors in parallel with them. The problem started with a snapped governor lever which would have caused very high engine speed. That would have created a very high output voltage which I suspect could have damaged the diodes and/or varistors causing them to fail as the load increases. I hope to replace both and see what happens. Any thoughts? I've put together a small page showing the repairs. http://members.rennlist.org/warren/1850.html |
#10
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Coleman Powermate low voltage
You have simply got to be an engineer. No one else puts that
much detail and work into repairing something. -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. "warren" wrote in message ... I have a similar problem with my 1850 but the output voltage drops at about 1100 watts load. The diodes appear ok, but I have no way to test the varistors in parallel with them. The problem started with a snapped governor lever which would have caused very high engine speed. That would have created a very high output voltage which I suspect could have damaged the diodes and/or varistors causing them to fail as the load increases. I hope to replace both and see what happens. Any thoughts? I've put together a small page showing the repairs. http://members.rennlist.org/warren/1850.html |
#11
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Coleman Powermate low voltage
Probably a good thing you didn't visit my home page... Stormin Mormon wrote: You have simply got to be an engineer. No one else puts that much detail and work into repairing something. |
#12
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Coleman Powermate low voltage
On Tue, 22 Sep 2009 17:24:48 -0300, warren
wrote: I have a similar problem with my 1850 but the output voltage drops at about 1100 watts load. The diodes appear ok, but I have no way to test the varistors in parallel with them. The problem started with a snapped governor lever which would have caused very high engine speed. That would have created a very high output voltage Well, I never understood why, but, in automobile terms, I thought alternators had higher output at low speeds than generators did, but lower output at high speeds. Or that the voltage woudln't increase that much. A) Does your Powermate use an alternator? B) Am I right about what I thought. C) Would that make you wrong? which I suspect could have damaged the diodes and/or varistors causing them to fail as the load increases. Did the load increase? Or did the load stay the same and output voltage increase? But I guess the second would make the voltage across both the dioades and the varistors increase, which is what you had in mind. Still, would that be enough to make them fail? I guess if they were not much better than the expected output one or both would. I hope to replace both and see what happens. Any thoughts? I've put together a small page showing the repairs. http://members.rennlist.org/warren/1850.html |
#13
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Coleman Powermate low voltage
The generator operates at a constant speed of 3600RPM in order to
produce a 60Hz output. Under no load the output is about 120VAC. It remains relatively constant up to about 1100 watts load. After that as the load increases it drops considerably, down to about 90VAC with a 1300 watt load. It should be capable of 1500 watts output continuously at 120VAC. The governor in the engine failed and would have caused it to rev very high at full throttle. During this time the output voltage would have gone very high, and possibly caused damage to the diodes and/or the varistors. These components are on the rotor, and somehow connect with the field coils. I'm still trying to understand better how a brushless output generator somewhat self regulates its output voltage. I've repaired the governor problem, and the engine works well now. However the next step is to ensure all components on the generator side are good in order to produce the proper power output. I've put together a small page showing the repairs. http://members.rennlist.org/warren/1850.html |
#14
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Coleman Powermate low voltage
The generator operates at a constant speed of 3600RPM in order to
produce a 60Hz output. Under no load the output is about 120VAC. It remains relatively constant up to about 1100 watts load. After that as the load increases it drops considerably, down to about 90VAC with a 1300 watt load. It should be capable of 1500 watts output continuously at 120VAC. The governor in the engine failed and would have caused it to rev very high at full throttle. During this time the output voltage would have gone very high, and possibly caused damage to the diodes and/or the varistors. These components are on the rotor, and somehow connect with the field coils. I'm still trying to understand better how a brushless output generator somewhat self regulates its output voltage. I've repaired the governor problem, and the engine works well now. However the next step is to ensure all components on the generator side are good in order to produce the proper power output. I've put together a small page showing the repairs. http://members.rennlist.org/warren/1850.html |
#15
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Coleman Powermate low voltage
I also have an 1850 coleman that i lost total A C output. I thaought it just had to be the capacitor
.. i replaced it... Nothing.same thing ...no voltage. Im about to give up on it. |
#16
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Coleman Powermate low voltage
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#17
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Coleman Powermate low voltage
On Sun, 12 May 2019 06:29:29 -0500, Terry Coombs
wrote: On 5/12/2019 3:36 AM, wrote: I also have an 1850 coleman that i lost total A C output. I thaought it just had to be the capacitor . i replaced it... Nothing.same thing ...no voltage. Im about to give up on it. Flash the field windings , it's lost the residual magnetism that it needs to start the generation process . I had the same problem with a Briggs unit a few years back . sounds like MABRR it was shut down under full load? That sometimes collapses the kagnetic feild causing the generator to faik to energize. Flashing often fixes this. Shutting off loads before shutting down the generator odten prevents the problem |
#18
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Coleman Powermate low voltage
On 5/12/2019 4:44 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Sun, 12 May 2019 06:29:29 -0500, Terry Coombs wrote: On 5/12/2019 3:36 AM, wrote: I also have an 1850 coleman that i lost total A C output. I thaought it just had to be the capacitor . i replaced it... Nothing.same thing ...no voltage. Im about to give up on it. Flash the field windings , it's lost the residual magnetism that it needs to start the generation process . I had the same problem with a Briggs unit a few years back . sounds like MABRR it was shut down under full load? That sometimes collapses the kagnetic feild causing the generator to faik to energize. Flashing often fixes this. Shutting off loads before shutting down the generator odten prevents the problem Â* I think that's what happened to mine . I learned there is a way to get it going by plugging a drill motor into one of the outlets then spinning that drill with another (while holding the trigger down) while the generator is running . I already had mine partly disassembled so I did it with a 12V battery . Been working fine ever since . -- Snag Yes , I'm old and crochety - and armed . Get outta my woods ! |
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