I am getting 5 tons of modified (crushed) stone delivered via dump
truck for a patio. I already have the area excavated, so most
convenient would be for the truck to dump right in the hole...but
would require driving over the rest of the lawn to get there. It's a
small(er) truck, but I still wonder if it is going to destroy the
lawn, especially since it rained hard last night. Any suggestions? I
really don't feel like transporting 5 tons of stone by myself if I
don't have to.

Thanks,

wrote:
I am getting 5 tons of modified (crushed) stone delivered via dump
truck for a patio. I already have the area excavated, so most
convenient would be for the truck to dump right in the hole...but
would require driving over the rest of the lawn to get there. It's a
small(er) truck, but I still wonder if it is going to destroy the
lawn, especially since it rained hard last night. Any suggestions? I
really don't feel like transporting 5 tons of stone by myself if I
don't have to.

Thanks,

You're looking at somewheres in the neighborhood of 20,000 lbs of
weight, (and that's with a real small truck) on 6 tire with a contact
area of approx 50 sq inches per tire. So that's about 66 lbs per square
inch. And remember, the back is probably carrying more than the front,
so the number may be closer to 100 lbs per square inch. You're gonna
have some nice ruts unless the ground is just rock hard dried out.

s

wrote in message
...
I am getting 5 tons of modified (crushed) stone delivered via dump
truck for a patio. I already have the area excavated, so most
convenient would be for the truck to dump right in the hole...but
would require driving over the rest of the lawn to get there. It's a
small(er) truck, but I still wonder if it is going to destroy the
lawn, especially since it rained hard last night. Any suggestions? I
really don't feel like transporting 5 tons of stone by myself if I
don't have to.

Thanks,

Good chance for a couple of tire ruts. I'd rather fix that than move 5
tones of stone by hand.

wrote:
I am getting 5 tons of modified (crushed) stone delivered via dump
truck for a patio. I already have the area excavated, so most
convenient would be for the truck to dump right in the hole...but
would require driving over the rest of the lawn to get there. It's a
small(er) truck, but I still wonder if it is going to destroy the
lawn, especially since it rained hard last night. Any suggestions? I
really don't feel like transporting 5 tons of stone by myself if I
don't have to.

Thanks,

Generally speaking truckers take no responsibility for your lawn. I once
paid more for cleanup than for the cement that was delivered. I live in
the Princeton NJ area, and it looks like you might too. Due to the
recent rain the ground here will be wet here for at least another month.
I'd put off the delivery until the ground was dry. Failing that I'd have
the truck only enter my yard on temporary roadway...something like large
boards (to distribute the load).

If you can't do either then perhaps you could hire a small lawn
maintenance/landscaping company to move the stone by wheelbarrow (on
boards) across your lawn. It should be only about 75 wheelbarrow trips.

Because of their smaller tires, small trucks can actually do more damage
than larger trucks.

HTH,

EJ in NJ

Red Green wrote:
....
Others mentioned the rut issue. No one mentioned what's under the lawn.
Under no conditions run it over a septic system/leech field.

Yeah, them leeches are real buggers this time of year...

--

wrote in message
...
I am getting 5 tons of modified (crushed) stone delivered via dump
truck for a patio. I already have the area excavated, so most
convenient would be for the truck to dump right in the hole...but
would require driving over the rest of the lawn to get there. It's a
small(er) truck, but I still wonder if it is going to destroy the
lawn, especially since it rained hard last night. Any suggestions? I
really don't feel like transporting 5 tons of stone by myself if I
don't have to.


*In addition to what others said, I would be concerned about underground
utilities and sprinkler systems if those are in the designated path of the
dump truck.

wrote in news:d5185ccd-3ef4-4733-9996-26d4da4df48f@
21g2000vbk.googlegroups.com:

I am getting 5 tons of modified (crushed) stone delivered via dump
truck for a patio. I already have the area excavated, so most
convenient would be for the truck to dump right in the hole...but
would require driving over the rest of the lawn to get there. It's a
small(er) truck, but I still wonder if it is going to destroy the
lawn, especially since it rained hard last night. Any suggestions? I
really don't feel like transporting 5 tons of stone by myself if I
don't have to.

Thanks,

Others mentioned the rut issue. No one mentioned what's under the lawn.
Under no conditions run it over a septic system/leech field.

On May 15, 11:34*am, Ernie Willson wrote:
wrote:
I am getting 5 tons of modified (crushed) stone delivered via dump
truck for a patio. I already have the area excavated, so most
convenient would be for the truck to dump right in the hole...but
would require driving over the rest of the lawn to get there. *It's a
small(er) truck, but I still wonder if it is going to destroy the
lawn, especially since it rained hard last night. *Any suggestions? *I
really don't feel like transporting 5 tons of stone by myself if I
don't have to.

Thanks,

Generally speaking truckers take no responsibility for your lawn. I once
paid more for cleanup than for the cement that was delivered. I live in
the Princeton NJ area, and it looks like you might too. Due to the
recent rain the ground here will be wet here for at least another month.
I'd put off the delivery until the ground was dry. Failing that I'd have
the truck only enter my yard on temporary roadway...something like large
boards (to distribute the load).

If you can't do either then perhaps you could hire a small lawn
maintenance/landscaping company to move the stone by wheelbarrow (on
boards) across your lawn. It should be only about 75 wheelbarrow trips.

Because of their smaller tires, small trucks can actually do more damage
than larger trucks.

HTH,

EJ in NJ

Yes ruts. But filling them in and letting the grass grow back over
next couple of months may be a small price to pay!

It's only a bit of soil and some grass after all! Grass is expendable
and regrowable; in fact some horticulturists suggest that grass is a
waste of time, effort etc. and recommend seeding with clover instead.
Clover puts nutrients back into the soil and needs less cutting.

Trying to move tons of crushed stone by hand/wheelbbarrow etc. is
heavy work!

Putting down some old pieces of plywood etc. might help spread the
weght of truck tyres.

Buying crushed stone to be delived by a 'Stone Slinger' truck would
presumably be more costly?

On May 15, 9:53*am, Red Green wrote:
wrote in news:d5185ccd-

I am getting 5 tons of modified (crushed) stone delivered via dump
truck for a patio. I already have the area excavated, so most
convenient would be for the truck to dump right in the hole...but
would require driving over the rest of the lawn to get there. *It's a
small(er) truck, but I still wonder if it is going to destroy the
lawn, especially since it rained hard last night. *Any suggestions? *I
really don't feel like transporting 5 tons of stone by myself if I
don't have to.


Others mentioned the rut issue. No one mentioned what's under the lawn.
Under no conditions run it over a septic system/leech field.

Or tree roots. Avoid driving under the dripline of trees.

R

RicodJour wrote:
On May 15, 9:53 am, Red Green wrote:
wrote in news:d5185ccd-

I am getting 5 tons of modified (crushed) stone delivered via dump
truck for a patio. I already have the area excavated, so most
convenient would be for the truck to dump right in the hole...but
would require driving over the rest of the lawn to get there. It's a
small(er) truck, but I still wonder if it is going to destroy the
lawn, especially since it rained hard last night. Any suggestions? I
really don't feel like transporting 5 tons of stone by myself if I
don't have to.

Others mentioned the rut issue. No one mentioned what's under the lawn.
Under no conditions run it over a septic system/leech field.

Or tree roots. Avoid driving under the dripline of trees.

R

HUH!?

wrote:
I am getting 5 tons of modified (crushed) stone delivered via dump
truck for a patio. I already have the area excavated, so most
convenient would be for the truck to dump right in the hole...but
would require driving over the rest of the lawn to get there. It's a
small(er) truck, but I still wonder if it is going to destroy the
lawn, especially since it rained hard last night. Any suggestions? I
really don't feel like transporting 5 tons of stone by myself if I
don't have to.

Thanks,

I have done it in the past, but only over summer hardened clay soil, even
then the truck(s) made some depressions and tore the grass up in sheets.
Make sure there is nothing in the ground that can be crushed by the truck
driving over it. Do not do this if the soil is filled and not virgin ground
or if it has rained recently as you may have the responsibility of paying a
tow truck to remove the original truck if it gets stuck. Hopefully the tow
truck doesn't also get stuck or tear the place up.

Actually, 5 tons is nothing, having often relocated 10 to 12 ton loads by
wheelbarrow. It all depends on how much you dislike real work.

On May 15, 9:21*am, Steve Barker wrote:
wrote:
I am getting 5 tons of modified (crushed) stone delivered via dump
truck for a patio. I already have the area excavated, so most
convenient would be for the truck to dump right in the hole...but
would require driving over the rest of the lawn to get there. *It's a
small(er) truck, but I still wonder if it is going to destroy the
lawn, especially since it rained hard last night. *Any suggestions? *I
really don't feel like transporting 5 tons of stone by myself if I
don't have to.

Thanks,

You're looking at somewheres in the neighborhood of 20,000 lbs of
weight, (and that's with a real small truck) on 6 tire with a contact
area of approx 50 sq inches per tire. *So that's about 66 lbs per square
inch. *And remember, the back is probably carrying more than the front,
so the number may be closer to 100 lbs per square inch. *You're gonna
have some nice ruts unless the ground is just rock hard dried out.

s

I agree that the you will probably be around 100 lb/inch^2, but I
think your area calc are off a bit.

I think the inflate tires on trucks to about 90 lbs/i^2 (unladen). If
so, 20,000 lbs on 6 tires would be 37 i^2 per tire, not 50.

50 i^2 at 100 lb/i^2 with 6 tires is 30,000 lbs.

If the inflate to 120 lbs/i^2, then of course your weight per square
inch will well be somewhere above that number.

Pat wrote:
On May 15, 9:21 am, Steve Barker wrote:
wrote:
I am getting 5 tons of modified (crushed) stone delivered via dump
truck for a patio. I already have the area excavated, so most
convenient would be for the truck to dump right in the hole...but
would require driving over the rest of the lawn to get there. It's a
small(er) truck, but I still wonder if it is going to destroy the
lawn, especially since it rained hard last night. Any suggestions? I
really don't feel like transporting 5 tons of stone by myself if I
don't have to.
Thanks,
You're looking at somewheres in the neighborhood of 20,000 lbs of
weight, (and that's with a real small truck) on 6 tire with a contact
area of approx 50 sq inches per tire. So that's about 66 lbs per square
inch. And remember, the back is probably carrying more than the front,
so the number may be closer to 100 lbs per square inch. You're gonna
have some nice ruts unless the ground is just rock hard dried out.

s

I agree that the you will probably be around 100 lb/inch^2, but I
think your area calc are off a bit.

I think the inflate tires on trucks to about 90 lbs/i^2 (unladen). If
so, 20,000 lbs on 6 tires would be 37 i^2 per tire, not 50.

50 i^2 at 100 lb/i^2 with 6 tires is 30,000 lbs.

If the inflate to 120 lbs/i^2, then of course your weight per square
inch will well be somewhere above that number.

I was just visualizing a 6x8 inch patch of contact. I've been around
truck tires all my life and don't need a bunch of technical jargon to
know how much tire is on the ground at a given time. Thanks for the input.

s

On May 15, 10:31*am, Steve Barker wrote:
RicodJour wrote:

Or tree roots. *Avoid driving under the dripline of trees.

HUH!?

This is news to you...?
http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/treecare/...on_damage.html

Most of a tree's roots are near the surface. I still can't believe
this is news to you. Are you joking?

R

wrote:
I am getting 5 tons of modified (crushed) stone delivered via dump
truck for a patio. I already have the area excavated, so most
convenient would be for the truck to dump right in the hole...but
would require driving over the rest of the lawn to get there. It's a
small(er) truck, but I still wonder if it is going to destroy the
lawn, especially since it rained hard last night. Any suggestions? I
really don't feel like transporting 5 tons of stone by myself if I
don't have to.

Thanks,
Hi,
Use plywood sheets. I did that when drilling rig for water well came
over my yard out at my cabin. it helped minimize tire ruts.

On May 15, 10:39*am, Steve Barker wrote:
Pat wrote:
On May 15, 9:21 am, Steve Barker wrote:

You're looking at somewheres in the neighborhood of 20,000 lbs of
weight, (and that's with a real small truck) on 6 tire with a contact
area of approx 50 sq inches per tire. *So that's about 66 lbs per square
inch. *And remember, the back is probably carrying more than the front,
so the number may be closer to 100 lbs per square inch. *You're gonna
have some nice ruts unless the ground is just rock hard dried out.


I agree that the you will probably be around 100 lb/inch^2, but I
think your area calc are off a bit.

I think the inflate tires on trucks to about 90 lbs/i^2 (unladen). *If
so, 20,000 lbs on 6 tires would be 37 i^2 per tire, not 50.

50 i^2 at 100 lb/i^2 with 6 tires is 30,000 lbs.

If the inflate to 120 lbs/i^2, then of course your weight per square
inch will well be somewhere above that number.

I was just visualizing a 6x8 inch patch of contact. *I've been around
truck tires all my life and don't need a bunch of technical jargon to
know how much tire is on the ground at a given time. *Thanks for the input.

Technical jargon? The only term Pat used that you didn't is unladen.

Anyhoo, were you serious about being surprised that driving over tree
roots can damage the tree?

R

Thanks for the replies. Yep, i'm in the princeton area and we did get
quite a bit of rain recently. I have several 16" wide plywood boards,
taht I think are actually OSB, 1/2" thick. I have enough to lay out
probably 50 feet at a time in parallel tracks for each tire, so might
need to move them once during the dump. Do you think they would be
sturdy enough to distribute the weight and avoid ruts? The big
problem is that they would need to cross my neighbor's lawn too - and
while they've said it would be okay, I don't want to be fixing their
lawn for the next 2 months as that might annoy them just a bit.
thanks again.

wrote:
Thanks for the replies. Yep, i'm in the princeton area and we did get
quite a bit of rain recently. I have several 16" wide plywood boards,
taht I think are actually OSB, 1/2" thick. I have enough to lay out
probably 50 feet at a time in parallel tracks for each tire, so might
need to move them once during the dump. Do you think they would be
sturdy enough to distribute the weight and avoid ruts? The big
problem is that they would need to cross my neighbor's lawn too - and
while they've said it would be okay, I don't want to be fixing their
lawn for the next 2 months as that might annoy them just a bit.
thanks again.

All I can say is that using the plywood will help. Unfortunately there
are just too many unknowns to make a firm statement. Most likely it will
be OK. The only acid test I know is to watch carefully as the truck
moves over the boards. If problems develop send the truck back and dump
the load for moving manually.

If your soil is like my "Princeton Shale" it is like soup when wet, but
it sets up like concrete when dry. When it is dry you can bounce bowling
balls off it. This is why I think you may be wise to wait till the soil
drys out.

I'd be very careful about the neighbors lawn..these things have habit of
becoming nasty when things go wrong.

HTH...Good luck.

EJ in Montgomery

wrote in news:55b6cc2b-47f6-4ba8-8c6b-
:

Thanks for the replies. Yep, i'm in the princeton area and we did get
quite a bit of rain recently. I have several 16" wide plywood boards,
taht I think are actually OSB, 1/2" thick. I have enough to lay out
probably 50 feet at a time in parallel tracks for each tire, so might
need to move them once during the dump. Do you think they would be
sturdy enough to distribute the weight and avoid ruts? The big
problem is that they would need to cross my neighbor's lawn too - and
while they've said it would be okay, I don't want to be fixing their
lawn for the next 2 months as that might annoy them just a bit.
thanks again.


Personally I would GUESS it would turn 1/2" into splinters...especially
if soil was not hard.

The big
problem is that they would need to cross my neighbor's lawn too -

Not good. Whole 'nother story.

and while they've said it would be okay,

until they see what actually results. Did you overtly tell them ruts will
occur? Did they specifically say if they do occur you have to do nothing
to restore it? If anything under neighbors lawn can be/is damaged, what
then?

wrote:

Thanks for the replies. Yep, i'm in the princeton area and we did get
quite a bit of rain recently. I have several 16" wide plywood boards,
taht I think are actually OSB, 1/2" thick. I have enough to lay out
probably 50 feet at a time in parallel tracks for each tire, so might
need to move them once during the dump. Do you think they would be
sturdy enough to distribute the weight and avoid ruts? The big
problem is that they would need to cross my neighbor's lawn too - and
while they've said it would be okay, I don't want to be fixing their
lawn for the next 2 months as that might annoy them just a bit.
thanks again.

They covered this on This Old House recently where someone had to bring in a
rig to drill a new well. Yes, you should expect ruts. The soil will be
compacted enough that just shoveling dirt into the ruts and raking in grass
seed might not work as the grass roots will be fighting to get through the
compacted soil, plus the new grass might be visibly different from the old
grass so you'll end up with a striped lawn. Roger on TOH used a walk-behind
cutter to lift the sod, they roto-tilled the soil in the ruts and topped-off
with more soil, and then replaced the original sod.

I wouldn't expect 1/2" OSB to survive a loaded dump-truck's weight, but if
it prevents the tires from making ruts it's a cheap sacrifice. Paying a
day-labor crew to bring in the stone from the street with a couple of
wheelbarrows seems like a reasonable alternative if you want to avoid fixing
your neighbor's lawn, it would probably be cheaper than fixing ruts.

Ernie Willson wrote:


wrote:
Thanks for the replies. Yep, i'm in the princeton area and we did get
quite a bit of rain recently. I have several 16" wide plywood boards,
taht I think are actually OSB, 1/2" thick. I have enough to lay out
probably 50 feet at a time in parallel tracks for each tire, so might
need to move them once during the dump. Do you think they would be
sturdy enough to distribute the weight and avoid ruts? The big
problem is that they would need to cross my neighbor's lawn too - and
while they've said it would be okay, I don't want to be fixing their
lawn for the next 2 months as that might annoy them just a bit.
thanks again.

All I can say is that using the plywood will help. Unfortunately there
are just too many unknowns to make a firm statement. Most likely it will
be OK. The only acid test I know is to watch carefully as the truck
moves over the boards. If problems develop send the truck back and dump
the load for moving manually.

If your soil is like my "Princeton Shale" it is like soup when wet, but
it sets up like concrete when dry. When it is dry you can bounce bowling
balls off it. This is why I think you may be wise to wait till the soil
drys out.

I'd be very careful about the neighbors lawn..these things have habit of
becoming nasty when things go wrong.

HTH...Good luck.

EJ in Montgomery

Another thought..I think 1 inch of plywood would certainly do the job.
You could double it up in 25 ft runs, and I think you would be OK.

YMMV,

EJ in NJ

Thank you again for all the replies. The neighbor said that she
doesn't really care too much about her lawn (if you can believe
that). And I said that I would work my best to fix any damage, should
any occur. Perhaps I will double up the plywood to 1" thick and see
what happens. Moving the plywood several times is going to be a hell
of a lot easier than moving 5 tons of crushed stone via wheelbarrow.
And afterwards, I don't care about the plywood at all - I bought it
pretty much to sacrifice. Another bonus is that I have 2 pallets of
concrete pavers coming in before the stone - and they use a heavy duty
forklift - so I can see how that fares before increasing the weight to
a full truck. thx...I'll let you know how it turns out. Jus curious
- anyone know approx how many wheelbarrow trips it would take to move
5 tons of crushed stone anyway?

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote:

wrote:
I am getting 5 tons of modified (crushed) stone delivered via dump
truck for a patio. I already have the area excavated, so most
convenient would be for the truck to dump right in the hole...but
would require driving over the rest of the lawn to get there. It's a
small(er) truck, but I still wonder if it is going to destroy the
lawn, especially since it rained hard last night. Any suggestions? I
really don't feel like transporting 5 tons of stone by myself if I
don't have to.

Thanks,

Good chance for a couple of tire ruts. I'd rather fix that than move 5
tones of stone by hand.

It's only three and half yards of gravel. If OP buys a wheelbarrow, only
loads it halfway, and spreads the work out over a week, it's not that big of
a deal.

If it is too much for the OP to handle on his own, school is almost out, and
there are a lot of young guys and burley girls running around who would LOVE
to make fifty bucks for a half day's work. Tell them they make ten bucks an
hour, and if it takes them less than five hours they get the whole fifty.

Jon

wrote:
Thank you again for all the replies. The neighbor said that she
doesn't really care too much about her lawn (if you can believe
that). And I said that I would work my best to fix any damage, should
any occur. Perhaps I will double up the plywood to 1" thick and see
what happens. Moving the plywood several times is going to be a hell
of a lot easier than moving 5 tons of crushed stone via wheelbarrow.
And afterwards, I don't care about the plywood at all - I bought it
pretty much to sacrifice. Another bonus is that I have 2 pallets of
concrete pavers coming in before the stone - and they use a heavy duty
forklift - so I can see how that fares before increasing the weight to
a full truck. thx...I'll let you know how it turns out. Jus curious
- anyone know approx how many wheelbarrow trips it would take to move
5 tons of crushed stone anyway?

I think you may have more of a problem with the wheel loading from the
forklift truck than the stone delivery truck. Nonetheless I think 1 inch
of plywood will handle it.

A wheelbarrow will hold about 1 cubic foot. A cubic foot of stone
weighs about 150 pounds. 10000 lbs divided by 150 lbs/wheelbarrow gives
us about 65 loads. I had estimated about 75 in an earlier post.

HTH,

EJ in NJ

wrote:
Thank you again for all the replies. The neighbor said that she
doesn't really care too much about her lawn (if you can believe
that). And I said that I would work my best to fix any damage, should
any occur. Perhaps I will double up the plywood to 1" thick and see
what happens. Moving the plywood several times is going to be a hell
of a lot easier than moving 5 tons of crushed stone via wheelbarrow.
And afterwards, I don't care about the plywood at all - I bought it
pretty much to sacrifice. Another bonus is that I have 2 pallets of
concrete pavers coming in before the stone - and they use a heavy duty
forklift - so I can see how that fares before increasing the weight to
a full truck. thx...I'll let you know how it turns out. Jus curious
- anyone know approx how many wheelbarrow trips it would take to move
5 tons of crushed stone anyway?

I'd be nervous about the truck right after rain and, especially crossing
the neighbor's property. Have you checked with the delivery service,
since they drive the truck? They might carry 2" lumber for the express
purpose. Crossing any septic systems or other costly stuff?

On May 15, 1:20*pm, wrote:
Thank you again for all the replies. *The neighbor said that she
doesn't really care too much about her lawn (if you can believe
that). *

I don't, and more importantly, you shouldn't either. You really,
really don't want to use the neighbors property for access. If the
damage to her lawn is not exactly what she imagines - Murphy's Law
being what it is - she won't be pleased. If you are on good terms
with the neighbor, keep it that way and find a better option.

And I said that I would work my best to fix any damage, should
any occur.

That's where the issue comes in. Your idea of best and hers will
almost assuredly vary.

Perhaps I will double up the plywood to 1" thick and see
what happens. *Moving the plywood several times is going to be a hell
of a lot easier than moving 5 tons of crushed stone via wheelbarrow.
And afterwards, I don't care about the plywood at all - I bought it
pretty much to sacrifice. *Another bonus is that I have 2 pallets of
concrete pavers coming in before the stone - and they use a heavy duty
forklift - so I can see how that fares before increasing the weight to
a full truck. *thx...I'll let you know how it turns out. *Jus curious
- anyone know approx how *many wheelbarrow trips it would take to move
5 tons of crushed stone anyway?

You are blowing this thing _way_ out of proportion and focusing on the
wrong things. You should have mentioned the forklift in your first
post as well. You are making it difficult to help you by giving
information in dribs and drabs. Depending on what type of forklift
the guy uses, it can damage your lawn as much if not more than the
truck would. The piggy-back forklifts can weigh three or four tons on
their own, and that rear rotating wheel can dig a nice hole for you.

You have to move some stuff and some weight, but it's not all that
much stuff and not all that much weight. Crushed stone is around 100
pounds per cubic foot. A high school kid can move 200 or 250 pounds
per load, a day labor closer to twice that with the appropriate
wheelbarrow. A couple of high school kids and a couple of
wheelbarrows would have the stuff moved in a day. A day labor would
move the stuff by himself in a day. The wheelbarrow will not be
damage-free for the lawn either, but the 1/2" OSB will be fine for
that.

So your decsion is if it's worth a hundred or a hundred and a half to
hire someone to move the stuff for you, or are you relations with your
neighbor and both of your lawns not worth that much to you. To me it
seems to be a no-brainer.

Someone posted about just filling in the ruts. That doesn't work very
well. That compacted soil will not stay compacted forever without a
load on it. If you add a couple or three inches of dirt to fill it
in, eventually the compacted soil will rise up a bit and you'll have a
couple of humps running down the lawn. Someone else mentioned a This
Old House episode - that's the right way to fix the ruts, but it's
better to avoid the ruts in the first place. If, as someone else
posted, you have that Princeton soil or whatever that gets rock hard
when it's dry, then obviously you should just wait until it's dry.

R

On May 15, 4:01*pm, RicodJour wrote:
On May 15, 1:20*pm, wrote:

Thank you again for all the replies. *The neighbor said that she
doesn't really care too much about her lawn (if you can believe
that). *

I don't, and more importantly, you shouldn't either. *You really,
really don't want to use the neighbors property for access. *If the
damage to her lawn is not exactly what she imagines - Murphy's Law
being what it is - she won't be pleased. *If you are on good terms
with the neighbor, keep it that way and find a better option.

And I said that I would work my best to fix any damage, should
any occur.

That's where the issue comes in. *Your idea of best and hers will
almost assuredly vary.

Perhaps I will double up the plywood to 1" thick and see
what happens. *Moving the plywood several times is going to be a hell
of a lot easier than moving 5 tons of crushed stone via wheelbarrow.
And afterwards, I don't care about the plywood at all - I bought it
pretty much to sacrifice. *Another bonus is that I have 2 pallets of
concrete pavers coming in before the stone - and they use a heavy duty
forklift - so I can see how that fares before increasing the weight to
a full truck. *thx...I'll let you know how it turns out. *Jus curious
- anyone know approx how *many wheelbarrow trips it would take to move
5 tons of crushed stone anyway?

You are blowing this thing _way_ out of proportion and focusing on the
wrong things. *You should have mentioned the forklift in your first
post as well. *You are making it difficult to help you by giving
information in dribs and drabs. *Depending on what type of forklift
the guy uses, it can damage your lawn as much if not more than the
truck would. *The piggy-back forklifts can weigh three or four tons on
their own, and that rear rotating wheel can dig a nice hole for you.

You have to move some stuff and some weight, but it's not all that
much stuff and not all that much weight. *Crushed stone is around 100
pounds per cubic foot. A high school kid can move 200 or 250 pounds
per load, a day labor closer to twice that with the appropriate
wheelbarrow. *A couple of high school kids and a couple of
wheelbarrows would have the stuff moved in a day. *A day labor would
move the stuff by himself in a day. *The wheelbarrow will not be
damage-free for the lawn either, but the 1/2" OSB will be fine for
that.

I had to replace some drainage pipe. My neighbor wouldn't let me
bring in a backhoe so I didn't fight the idea -- didn't want to ****
of the neighbor. So I hired 2 high school kids between their junior
and senior years. They moved stone all summer in 5 gallon buckets and
wheel barrows.

As seniors, they had their best years ever playing football.


So your decsion is if it's worth a hundred or a hundred and a half to
hire someone to move the stuff for you, or are you relations with your
neighbor and both of your lawns not worth that much to you. *To me it
seems to be a no-brainer.

Someone posted about just filling in the ruts. *That doesn't work very
well. *That compacted soil will not stay compacted forever without a
load on it. *If you add a couple or three inches of dirt to fill it
in, eventually the compacted soil will rise up a bit and you'll have a
couple of humps running down the lawn. *Someone else mentioned a This
Old House episode - that's the right way to fix the ruts, but it's
better to avoid the ruts in the first place. *If, as someone else
posted, you have that Princeton soil or whatever that gets rock hard
when it's dry, then obviously you should just wait until it's dry.

R

RicodJour wrote:
On May 15, 10:31 am, Steve Barker wrote:
RicodJour wrote:

Or tree roots. Avoid driving under the dripline of trees.
HUH!?

This is news to you...?
http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/treecare/...on_damage.html

Most of a tree's roots are near the surface. I still can't believe
this is news to you. Are you joking?

R

Well i don't drive the trucks on the lawn often. AND i could really
care less if i damage a damn tree root. JEEEEzeee.. Hell we put a new
foundation under a house and cut several 4" roots CLEAN OFF and the tree
is just fine. Not high on my priority list to worry about.

RicodJour wrote:
On May 15, 10:39 am, Steve Barker wrote:
Pat wrote:
On May 15, 9:21 am, Steve Barker wrote:
You're looking at somewheres in the neighborhood of 20,000 lbs of
weight, (and that's with a real small truck) on 6 tire with a contact
area of approx 50 sq inches per tire. So that's about 66 lbs per square
inch. And remember, the back is probably carrying more than the front,
so the number may be closer to 100 lbs per square inch. You're gonna
have some nice ruts unless the ground is just rock hard dried out.

I agree that the you will probably be around 100 lb/inch^2, but I
think your area calc are off a bit.
I think the inflate tires on trucks to about 90 lbs/i^2 (unladen). If
so, 20,000 lbs on 6 tires would be 37 i^2 per tire, not 50.
50 i^2 at 100 lb/i^2 with 6 tires is 30,000 lbs.
If the inflate to 120 lbs/i^2, then of course your weight per square
inch will well be somewhere above that number.
I was just visualizing a 6x8 inch patch of contact. I've been around
truck tires all my life and don't need a bunch of technical jargon to
know how much tire is on the ground at a given time. Thanks for the input.

Technical jargon? The only term Pat used that you didn't is unladen.

Anyhoo, were you serious about being surprised that driving over tree
roots can damage the tree?

R

yes, actually. I'd never heard that before.

Tony Hwang wrote:
wrote:
I am getting 5 tons of modified (crushed) stone delivered via dump
truck for a patio. I already have the area excavated, so most
convenient would be for the truck to dump right in the hole...but
would require driving over the rest of the lawn to get there. It's
a small(er) truck, but I still wonder if it is going to destroy the
lawn, especially since it rained hard last night. Any suggestions?
I really don't feel like transporting 5 tons of stone by myself if I
don't have to.

Thanks,
Hi,
Use plywood sheets. I did that when drilling rig for water well came
over my yard out at my cabin. it helped minimize tire ruts.

Since the plywood will be cracked, bent and otherwise useless afterwards,
that can be quite an expensive method at todays plywood prices, even if the
driver can keep on the sheets.

On May 15, 6:35*pm, "EXT" wrote:

Since the plywood will be cracked, bent and otherwise useless afterwards,
that can be quite an expensive method at todays plywood prices, even if the
driver can keep on the sheets.

And you'll need three strips for the piggy-back forklift.

R

On Fri, 15 May 2009 06:08:32 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

I am getting 5 tons of modified (crushed) stone delivered via dump
truck for a patio. I already have the area excavated, so most
convenient would be for the truck to dump right in the hole...but
would require driving over the rest of the lawn to get there. It's a
small(er) truck, but I still wonder if it is going to destroy the
lawn, especially since it rained hard last night. Any suggestions? I
really don't feel like transporting 5 tons of stone by myself if I
don't have to.


Ever tried to fix dualie ruts? Believe me, you'd rather haul the
rock. A driver got just slightly off our driveway and had to be towed
out. We threw bags and bags of dirt at the ruts that were left, and
it made little difference. What helped was time, lots of it.

On May 15, 12:26*pm, RicodJour wrote:
On May 15, 10:39*am, Steve Barker wrote:



Pat wrote:
On May 15, 9:21 am, Steve Barker wrote:

You're looking at somewheres in the neighborhood of 20,000 lbs of
weight, (and that's with a real small truck) on 6 tire with a contact
area of approx 50 sq inches per tire. *So that's about 66 lbs per square
inch. *And remember, the back is probably carrying more than the front,
so the number may be closer to 100 lbs per square inch. *You're gonna
have some nice ruts unless the ground is just rock hard dried out.

I agree that the you will probably be around 100 lb/inch^2, but I
think your area calc are off a bit.

I think the inflate tires on trucks to about 90 lbs/i^2 (unladen). *If
so, 20,000 lbs on 6 tires would be 37 i^2 per tire, not 50.

50 i^2 at 100 lb/i^2 with 6 tires is 30,000 lbs.

If the inflate to 120 lbs/i^2, then of course your weight per square
inch will well be somewhere above that number.

I was just visualizing a 6x8 inch patch of contact. *I've been around
truck tires all my life and don't need a bunch of technical jargon to
know how much tire is on the ground at a given time. *Thanks for the input.

Technical jargon? *The only term Pat used that you didn't is unladen.


I for one don't understand what Pat was saying either. Aside from
dragging tire pressure into the picture, I don't see how tire pressure
actually got factored into contact area of the tires on the ground to
give any more realistic an estimate of the effects. Pat just made
another guess as to the exact area. Like Steve, I can tell you a
truck with 5 tons of load on a wet lawn isn't a good idea.






Anyhoo, were you serious about being surprised that driving over tree
roots can damage the tree?

R

On May 16, 7:37*am, wrote:
On May 15, 12:26*pm, RicodJour wrote:

Technical jargon? *The only term Pat used that you didn't is unladen.

I for one don't understand what Pat was saying either. * * Aside from
dragging tire pressure into the picture, I don't see how tire pressure
actually got factored into contact area of the tires on the ground to
give any more realistic an estimate of the effects. * * Pat just made
another guess as to the exact area. * Like Steve, I can tell you a
truck with 5 tons of load on a wet lawn isn't a good idea.

Let's face it - no one understands what Pat is saying! Sorry,
Pat.

I was merely referring to the "technical jargon" comment. Assuming
that the truck's tires are within the normal range, there's not going
to be a big effect, and it certainly won't have nearly the effect of
the difference between a wet and dry lawn.

R

On May 15, 8:08*am, wrote:
I am getting 5 tons of modified (crushed) stone delivered via dump
truck for a patio. I already have the area excavated, so most
convenient would be for the truck to dump right in the hole...but
would require driving over the rest of the lawn to get there. *It's a
small(er) truck, but I still wonder if it is going to destroy the
lawn, especially since it rained hard last night. *Any suggestions? *I
really don't feel like transporting 5 tons of stone by myself if I
don't have to.

Thanks,

Follow some of the ideas posted here that seem apropos to your area.
Overall, don't sweat the damage. Nature has a way of healing things,
if you just ignore it. Freeze-thaw cycles, wet-dry cycles, all have
the effect of leveling out irregularities. Right now I can see out my
window the pristine lawn my neighbor has in the area where a couple of
fully loaded ready-mix trucks delivered the concrete for his new
garage floor. Give Nature a little help and let her do the rest.

Joe

On May 16, 9:31*am, RicodJour wrote:
On May 16, 7:37*am, wrote:

On May 15, 12:26*pm, RicodJour wrote:

Technical jargon? *The only term Pat used that you didn't is unladen.

on 5/16/2009 4:19 PM (ET) Pat wrote the following:
On May 16, 9:31 am, RicodJour wrote:

On May 16, 7:37 am, wrote:


On May 15, 12:26 pm, RicodJour wrote:

Technical jargon? The only term Pat used that you didn't is unladen.

I for one don't understand what Pat was saying either. Aside from
dragging tire pressure into the picture, I don't see how tire pressure
actually got factored into contact area of the tires on the ground to
give any more realistic an estimate of the effects. Pat just made
another guess as to the exact area. Like Steve, I can tell you a
truck with 5 tons of load on a wet lawn isn't a good idea.

Let's face it - no one understands what Pat is saying! Sorry,
Pat.

I was merely referring to the "technical jargon" comment. Assuming
that the truck's tires are within the normal range, there's not going
to be a big effect, and it certainly won't have nearly the effect of
the difference between a wet and dry lawn.

R


Hey, hey. Just cuz I'm a hick from the sticks ...

Tire pressure has EVERYTHING to do contact area.

Take your car, for example. We'll use your car instead of my because
mine is sort of messy right now.

Let's say your car weighs 6000 lbs (just a random number).

More unrealistic than random. A 3 ton car? The military Humvee is only
5500 lbs.

It
probably has 4 tires inflated to 30 lbs of pressure (okay, it should
be 32 but you've been slacking off and haven't checked your tires
lately). For ease, let's say the weight is distributed evenly so each
tire holds 1,500 lbs. Got it so far? Rico, I know you do.

Each square inch of tire is literally holding 30 lbs. That's why your
tires are at 30 lbs per square inch. So if you take the 1,500 lbs
at 30 lbs per square inch, then you have to have 50 square inches of
contact space with the road. If your tire is 10" wide, then you have
5 inches on contact, front-to-back.

Oh, but you didn't notice that one tire has a leak. The pressure has
dropped to 20 lbs. How did you notice the leak? It looks "flat" and
has more front-to-back contact with the road. So now the 1,500 lbs is
supported at 20 lbs per square inch. Now it needs 75 inches of
contact with the road. At 10 inches wide, you now have a 7.5" contact
area. The flat look is just spreading the weight over a large area
due to lower PSI.

This also explains why your wife's smaller car has smaller tires. If
her car weighs only 2500 lbs, then she needs only 625 lbs per tire.
Therefore she needs only 20.8" (~ 20") of contact with the road. If
she had the same 10" wide tire, it would have only 2" of contact,
front-to-back. It would look funny, so the tire is made narrower, to
say 6". This gives 3.33 inches of contact, front-to-back.

Some people believe that if you want more traction in snow, you should
let out some air from your tires. I don't think it really works, but
it will give you more contact with the road because of the lower PSI.

Finally, this also explains why your little, tiny donut spare has 50
psi in it. That's how they get it small.

Trucks carry heavier loads. Therefore they use higher inflation in
their tires. Otherwise the tires would have to be huge (probably
really wide).

Here's a corollary to think about. If you know (or can measure) how
big the contact area between your car/truck is, and if you know what
the tires are inflated to, then you can simply calculate the weight of
the truck (without using a scale).

How this help explain the relationship of tire pressure to contact
space and therefore the amount or ruts in the lawn.



--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

On May 16, 5:01*pm, willshak wrote:
on 5/16/2009 4:19 PM (ET) Pat wrote the following:

Hey, hey. *Just cuz I'm a hick from the sticks ...

Tire pressure has EVERYTHING to do contact area.

No argument there, but I'm sure you're not assuming that the tires are
grossly over or under inflated. They're probably inflated just about
right, right? The wetness of the lawn has a far greater affect on the
damage the lawn would experience than any amount of over or under
inflation.

Take your car, for example. *We'll use your car instead of my because
mine is sort of messy right now.

Let's say your car weighs 6000 lbs (just a random number).

More unrealistic than random. A 3 ton car? The military Humvee is only
5500 lbs.

The GM web site has this about the 3/4 ton Suburban:
Curb Weight 6447.00

and the Hummer H2:
curb weight (lbs) 6,413

R

On May 16, 4:19*pm, Pat wrote:
On May 16, 9:31*am, RicodJour wrote:



On May 16, 7:37*am, wrote:

On May 15, 12:26*pm, RicodJour wrote:

Technical jargon? *The only term Pat used that you didn't is unladen.

I for one don't understand what Pat was saying either. * * Aside from
dragging tire pressure into the picture, I don't see how tire pressure
actually got factored into contact area of the tires on the ground to
give any more realistic an estimate of the effects. * * Pat just made
another guess as to the exact area. * Like Steve, I can tell you a
truck with 5 tons of load on a wet lawn isn't a good idea.

Let's face it - no one understands what Pat is saying! *Sorry,
Pat. *

I was merely referring to the "technical jargon" comment. *Assuming
that the truck's tires are within the normal range, there's not going
to be a big effect, and it certainly won't have nearly the effect of
the difference between a wet and dry lawn.

R

Hey, hey. *Just cuz I'm a hick from the sticks ...

Tire pressure has EVERYTHING to do contact area.

Take your car, for example. *We'll use your car instead of my because
mine is sort of messy right now.

Let's say your car weighs 6000 lbs (just a random number). *It
probably has 4 tires inflated to 30 lbs of pressure (okay, it should
be 32 but you've been slacking off and haven't checked your tires
lately). *For ease, let's say the weight is distributed evenly so each
tire holds 1,500 lbs. *Got it so far? *Rico, I know you do.

Each square inch of tire is literally holding 30 lbs.

And that is where the whole argument and analysis is wrong. Just
because the tire is inflated to 30 PSI internally, does not mean there
is 30 PSI applied to the contact area of the tire. I take a spare
tire that's inflated to 30 psi and simply place it upright on the
floor. According to your analysis, there is 30 PSI pressing against
the floor across the contact area. Now I inflate it to 40PSI.
According to your analysis, the contact area just got drastically
smaller and the floor is now supporting 40PSI. But of course, we
know that just isn't so. A tire inflated to 30 lbs, weighs what?
About 30lbs or so? Meaning if your analysis was correct, the tire
would have a contact area of a mere 1 square inch.

In your example, each square inch of tire is actually holding whatever
the total weight of the car is divided by the total contact area.
Clearly that has some relationship to the pressure in the tire, but
it's not simply equal to the internal tire pressure.





*That's why your
tires are at 30 lbs per square inch. * *So if you take the 1,500 lbs
at 30 lbs per square inch, then you have to have 50 square inches of
contact space with the road. *If your tire is 10" wide, then you have
5 inches on contact, front-to-back.

Oh, but you didn't notice that one tire has a leak. *The pressure has
dropped to 20 lbs. *How did you notice the leak? *It looks "flat" and
has more front-to-back contact with the road. *So now the 1,500 lbs is
supported at 20 lbs per square inch. *Now it needs 75 inches of
contact with the road. *At 10 inches wide, you now have a 7.5" contact
area. *The flat look is just spreading the weight over a large area
due to lower PSI.

This also explains why your wife's smaller car has smaller tires. *If
her car weighs only 2500 lbs, then she needs only 625 lbs per tire.
Therefore she needs only 20.8" (~ 20") of contact with the road. *If
she had the same 10" wide tire, it would have only 2" of contact,
front-to-back. *It would look funny, so the tire is made narrower, to
say 6". *This gives 3.33 inches of contact, front-to-back.

Some people believe that if you want more traction in snow, you should
let out some air from your tires. *I don't think it really works, but
it will give you more contact with the road because of the lower PSI.

Finally, this also explains why your little, tiny donut spare has 50
psi in it. *That's how they get it small.

Trucks carry heavier loads. *Therefore they use higher inflation in
their tires. *Otherwise the tires would have to be huge (probably
really wide).

*Here's a corollary to think about. *If you know (or can measure) how
big the contact area between your car/truck is, and if you know what
the tires are inflated to, then you can simply calculate the weight of
the truck (without using a scale).

How this help explain the relationship of tire pressure to contact
space and therefore the amount or ruts in the lawn.

Hey everyone - just to close the loop for anyone searching in the
future, here is the rest of the story: I was actually hoping the
crushed stone would arrive before the forklift - and I would just find
a way to get it onto a tarp on a pallet or two...but the forklift came
first. He walked on the ground and assessed it to be okay...the
wettest spot was on my own lawn - and he did leave a couple ruts about
2-3" deep...but didn't tear the lawn up at all. And that was a
7,000lb forklift and a 1.5ton load. When the dump truck came - his
rig is a 26,000lb truck, with another 10,000 of material and he
wouldn't even attempt it. He said that the 1" plywood would do
absolutely nothing except get pulverized. He dumped on a tarp on the
lawn and we moved by hand - took about 80 trips with the wheelbarrow
less than heaping. My back is definitely sore today. Thanks again.