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Drive dump truck over lawn?
I am getting 5 tons of modified (crushed) stone delivered via dump
truck for a patio. I already have the area excavated, so most convenient would be for the truck to dump right in the hole...but would require driving over the rest of the lawn to get there. It's a small(er) truck, but I still wonder if it is going to destroy the lawn, especially since it rained hard last night. Any suggestions? I really don't feel like transporting 5 tons of stone by myself if I don't have to. Thanks, |
Drive dump truck over lawn?
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Drive dump truck over lawn?
wrote in message ... I am getting 5 tons of modified (crushed) stone delivered via dump truck for a patio. I already have the area excavated, so most convenient would be for the truck to dump right in the hole...but would require driving over the rest of the lawn to get there. It's a small(er) truck, but I still wonder if it is going to destroy the lawn, especially since it rained hard last night. Any suggestions? I really don't feel like transporting 5 tons of stone by myself if I don't have to. Thanks, Good chance for a couple of tire ruts. I'd rather fix that than move 5 tones of stone by hand. |
Drive dump truck over lawn?
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Drive dump truck over lawn?
Red Green wrote:
.... Others mentioned the rut issue. No one mentioned what's under the lawn. Under no conditions run it over a septic system/leech field. Yeah, them leeches are real buggers this time of year... :) -- |
Drive dump truck over lawn?
wrote in message ... I am getting 5 tons of modified (crushed) stone delivered via dump truck for a patio. I already have the area excavated, so most convenient would be for the truck to dump right in the hole...but would require driving over the rest of the lawn to get there. It's a small(er) truck, but I still wonder if it is going to destroy the lawn, especially since it rained hard last night. Any suggestions? I really don't feel like transporting 5 tons of stone by myself if I don't have to. *In addition to what others said, I would be concerned about underground utilities and sprinkler systems if those are in the designated path of the dump truck. |
Drive dump truck over lawn?
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Drive dump truck over lawn?
On May 15, 11:34*am, Ernie Willson wrote:
wrote: I am getting 5 tons of modified (crushed) stone delivered via dump truck for a patio. I already have the area excavated, so most convenient would be for the truck to dump right in the hole...but would require driving over the rest of the lawn to get there. *It's a small(er) truck, but I still wonder if it is going to destroy the lawn, especially since it rained hard last night. *Any suggestions? *I really don't feel like transporting 5 tons of stone by myself if I don't have to. Thanks, Generally speaking truckers take no responsibility for your lawn. I once paid more for cleanup than for the cement that was delivered. I live in the Princeton NJ area, and it looks like you might too. Due to the recent rain the ground here will be wet here for at least another month. I'd put off the delivery until the ground was dry. Failing that I'd have the truck only enter my yard on temporary roadway...something like large boards (to distribute the load). If you can't do either then perhaps you could hire a small lawn maintenance/landscaping company to move the stone by wheelbarrow (on boards) across your lawn. It should be only about 75 wheelbarrow trips. Because of their smaller tires, small trucks can actually do more damage than larger trucks. HTH, EJ in NJ Yes ruts. But filling them in and letting the grass grow back over next couple of months may be a small price to pay! It's only a bit of soil and some grass after all! Grass is expendable and regrowable; in fact some horticulturists suggest that grass is a waste of time, effort etc. and recommend seeding with clover instead. Clover puts nutrients back into the soil and needs less cutting. Trying to move tons of crushed stone by hand/wheelbbarrow etc. is heavy work! Putting down some old pieces of plywood etc. might help spread the weght of truck tyres. Buying crushed stone to be delived by a 'Stone Slinger' truck would presumably be more costly? |
Drive dump truck over lawn?
On May 15, 9:53*am, Red Green wrote:
wrote in news:d5185ccd- I am getting 5 tons of modified (crushed) stone delivered via dump truck for a patio. I already have the area excavated, so most convenient would be for the truck to dump right in the hole...but would require driving over the rest of the lawn to get there. *It's a small(er) truck, but I still wonder if it is going to destroy the lawn, especially since it rained hard last night. *Any suggestions? *I really don't feel like transporting 5 tons of stone by myself if I don't have to. Others mentioned the rut issue. No one mentioned what's under the lawn. Under no conditions run it over a septic system/leech field. Or tree roots. Avoid driving under the dripline of trees. R |
Drive dump truck over lawn?
RicodJour wrote:
On May 15, 9:53 am, Red Green wrote: wrote in news:d5185ccd- I am getting 5 tons of modified (crushed) stone delivered via dump truck for a patio. I already have the area excavated, so most convenient would be for the truck to dump right in the hole...but would require driving over the rest of the lawn to get there. It's a small(er) truck, but I still wonder if it is going to destroy the lawn, especially since it rained hard last night. Any suggestions? I really don't feel like transporting 5 tons of stone by myself if I don't have to. Others mentioned the rut issue. No one mentioned what's under the lawn. Under no conditions run it over a septic system/leech field. Or tree roots. Avoid driving under the dripline of trees. R HUH!? |
Drive dump truck over lawn?
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Drive dump truck over lawn?
On May 15, 9:21*am, Steve Barker wrote:
wrote: I am getting 5 tons of modified (crushed) stone delivered via dump truck for a patio. I already have the area excavated, so most convenient would be for the truck to dump right in the hole...but would require driving over the rest of the lawn to get there. *It's a small(er) truck, but I still wonder if it is going to destroy the lawn, especially since it rained hard last night. *Any suggestions? *I really don't feel like transporting 5 tons of stone by myself if I don't have to. Thanks, You're looking at somewheres in the neighborhood of 20,000 lbs of weight, (and that's with a real small truck) on 6 tire with a contact area of approx 50 sq inches per tire. *So that's about 66 lbs per square inch. *And remember, the back is probably carrying more than the front, so the number may be closer to 100 lbs per square inch. *You're gonna have some nice ruts unless the ground is just rock hard dried out. s I agree that the you will probably be around 100 lb/inch^2, but I think your area calc are off a bit. I think the inflate tires on trucks to about 90 lbs/i^2 (unladen). If so, 20,000 lbs on 6 tires would be 37 i^2 per tire, not 50. 50 i^2 at 100 lb/i^2 with 6 tires is 30,000 lbs. If the inflate to 120 lbs/i^2, then of course your weight per square inch will well be somewhere above that number. |
Drive dump truck over lawn?
Pat wrote:
On May 15, 9:21 am, Steve Barker wrote: wrote: I am getting 5 tons of modified (crushed) stone delivered via dump truck for a patio. I already have the area excavated, so most convenient would be for the truck to dump right in the hole...but would require driving over the rest of the lawn to get there. It's a small(er) truck, but I still wonder if it is going to destroy the lawn, especially since it rained hard last night. Any suggestions? I really don't feel like transporting 5 tons of stone by myself if I don't have to. Thanks, You're looking at somewheres in the neighborhood of 20,000 lbs of weight, (and that's with a real small truck) on 6 tire with a contact area of approx 50 sq inches per tire. So that's about 66 lbs per square inch. And remember, the back is probably carrying more than the front, so the number may be closer to 100 lbs per square inch. You're gonna have some nice ruts unless the ground is just rock hard dried out. s I agree that the you will probably be around 100 lb/inch^2, but I think your area calc are off a bit. I think the inflate tires on trucks to about 90 lbs/i^2 (unladen). If so, 20,000 lbs on 6 tires would be 37 i^2 per tire, not 50. 50 i^2 at 100 lb/i^2 with 6 tires is 30,000 lbs. If the inflate to 120 lbs/i^2, then of course your weight per square inch will well be somewhere above that number. I was just visualizing a 6x8 inch patch of contact. I've been around truck tires all my life and don't need a bunch of technical jargon to know how much tire is on the ground at a given time. Thanks for the input. s |
Drive dump truck over lawn?
On May 15, 10:31*am, Steve Barker wrote:
RicodJour wrote: Or tree roots. *Avoid driving under the dripline of trees. HUH!? This is news to you...? http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/treecare/...on_damage.html Most of a tree's roots are near the surface. I still can't believe this is news to you. Are you joking? R |
Drive dump truck over lawn?
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Drive dump truck over lawn?
On May 15, 10:39*am, Steve Barker wrote:
Pat wrote: On May 15, 9:21 am, Steve Barker wrote: You're looking at somewheres in the neighborhood of 20,000 lbs of weight, (and that's with a real small truck) on 6 tire with a contact area of approx 50 sq inches per tire. *So that's about 66 lbs per square inch. *And remember, the back is probably carrying more than the front, so the number may be closer to 100 lbs per square inch. *You're gonna have some nice ruts unless the ground is just rock hard dried out. I agree that the you will probably be around 100 lb/inch^2, but I think your area calc are off a bit. I think the inflate tires on trucks to about 90 lbs/i^2 (unladen). *If so, 20,000 lbs on 6 tires would be 37 i^2 per tire, not 50. 50 i^2 at 100 lb/i^2 with 6 tires is 30,000 lbs. If the inflate to 120 lbs/i^2, then of course your weight per square inch will well be somewhere above that number. I was just visualizing a 6x8 inch patch of contact. *I've been around truck tires all my life and don't need a bunch of technical jargon to know how much tire is on the ground at a given time. *Thanks for the input. Technical jargon? The only term Pat used that you didn't is unladen. Anyhoo, were you serious about being surprised that driving over tree roots can damage the tree? R |
Drive dump truck over lawn?
Thanks for the replies. Yep, i'm in the princeton area and we did get
quite a bit of rain recently. I have several 16" wide plywood boards, taht I think are actually OSB, 1/2" thick. I have enough to lay out probably 50 feet at a time in parallel tracks for each tire, so might need to move them once during the dump. Do you think they would be sturdy enough to distribute the weight and avoid ruts? The big problem is that they would need to cross my neighbor's lawn too - and while they've said it would be okay, I don't want to be fixing their lawn for the next 2 months as that might annoy them just a bit. thanks again. |
Drive dump truck over lawn?
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Drive dump truck over lawn?
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Drive dump truck over lawn?
Ernie Willson wrote: wrote: Thanks for the replies. Yep, i'm in the princeton area and we did get quite a bit of rain recently. I have several 16" wide plywood boards, taht I think are actually OSB, 1/2" thick. I have enough to lay out probably 50 feet at a time in parallel tracks for each tire, so might need to move them once during the dump. Do you think they would be sturdy enough to distribute the weight and avoid ruts? The big problem is that they would need to cross my neighbor's lawn too - and while they've said it would be okay, I don't want to be fixing their lawn for the next 2 months as that might annoy them just a bit. thanks again. All I can say is that using the plywood will help. Unfortunately there are just too many unknowns to make a firm statement. Most likely it will be OK. The only acid test I know is to watch carefully as the truck moves over the boards. If problems develop send the truck back and dump the load for moving manually. If your soil is like my "Princeton Shale" it is like soup when wet, but it sets up like concrete when dry. When it is dry you can bounce bowling balls off it. This is why I think you may be wise to wait till the soil drys out. I'd be very careful about the neighbors lawn..these things have habit of becoming nasty when things go wrong. HTH...Good luck. EJ in Montgomery Another thought..I think 1 inch of plywood would certainly do the job. You could double it up in 25 ft runs, and I think you would be OK. YMMV, EJ in NJ |
Drive dump truck over lawn?
Thank you again for all the replies. The neighbor said that she
doesn't really care too much about her lawn (if you can believe that). And I said that I would work my best to fix any damage, should any occur. Perhaps I will double up the plywood to 1" thick and see what happens. Moving the plywood several times is going to be a hell of a lot easier than moving 5 tons of crushed stone via wheelbarrow. And afterwards, I don't care about the plywood at all - I bought it pretty much to sacrifice. Another bonus is that I have 2 pallets of concrete pavers coming in before the stone - and they use a heavy duty forklift - so I can see how that fares before increasing the weight to a full truck. thx...I'll let you know how it turns out. Jus curious - anyone know approx how many wheelbarrow trips it would take to move 5 tons of crushed stone anyway? |
Drive dump truck over lawn?
"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote:
wrote: I am getting 5 tons of modified (crushed) stone delivered via dump truck for a patio. I already have the area excavated, so most convenient would be for the truck to dump right in the hole...but would require driving over the rest of the lawn to get there. It's a small(er) truck, but I still wonder if it is going to destroy the lawn, especially since it rained hard last night. Any suggestions? I really don't feel like transporting 5 tons of stone by myself if I don't have to. Thanks, Good chance for a couple of tire ruts. I'd rather fix that than move 5 tones of stone by hand. It's only three and half yards of gravel. If OP buys a wheelbarrow, only loads it halfway, and spreads the work out over a week, it's not that big of a deal. If it is too much for the OP to handle on his own, school is almost out, and there are a lot of young guys and burley girls running around who would LOVE to make fifty bucks for a half day's work. Tell them they make ten bucks an hour, and if it takes them less than five hours they get the whole fifty. Jon |
Drive dump truck over lawn?
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Drive dump truck over lawn?
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Drive dump truck over lawn?
On May 15, 1:20*pm, wrote:
Thank you again for all the replies. *The neighbor said that she doesn't really care too much about her lawn (if you can believe that). * I don't, and more importantly, you shouldn't either. You really, really don't want to use the neighbors property for access. If the damage to her lawn is not exactly what she imagines - Murphy's Law being what it is - she won't be pleased. If you are on good terms with the neighbor, keep it that way and find a better option. And I said that I would work my best to fix any damage, should any occur. That's where the issue comes in. Your idea of best and hers will almost assuredly vary. Perhaps I will double up the plywood to 1" thick and see what happens. *Moving the plywood several times is going to be a hell of a lot easier than moving 5 tons of crushed stone via wheelbarrow. And afterwards, I don't care about the plywood at all - I bought it pretty much to sacrifice. *Another bonus is that I have 2 pallets of concrete pavers coming in before the stone - and they use a heavy duty forklift - so I can see how that fares before increasing the weight to a full truck. *thx...I'll let you know how it turns out. *Jus curious - anyone know approx how *many wheelbarrow trips it would take to move 5 tons of crushed stone anyway? You are blowing this thing _way_ out of proportion and focusing on the wrong things. You should have mentioned the forklift in your first post as well. You are making it difficult to help you by giving information in dribs and drabs. Depending on what type of forklift the guy uses, it can damage your lawn as much if not more than the truck would. The piggy-back forklifts can weigh three or four tons on their own, and that rear rotating wheel can dig a nice hole for you. You have to move some stuff and some weight, but it's not all that much stuff and not all that much weight. Crushed stone is around 100 pounds per cubic foot. A high school kid can move 200 or 250 pounds per load, a day labor closer to twice that with the appropriate wheelbarrow. A couple of high school kids and a couple of wheelbarrows would have the stuff moved in a day. A day labor would move the stuff by himself in a day. The wheelbarrow will not be damage-free for the lawn either, but the 1/2" OSB will be fine for that. So your decsion is if it's worth a hundred or a hundred and a half to hire someone to move the stuff for you, or are you relations with your neighbor and both of your lawns not worth that much to you. To me it seems to be a no-brainer. Someone posted about just filling in the ruts. That doesn't work very well. That compacted soil will not stay compacted forever without a load on it. If you add a couple or three inches of dirt to fill it in, eventually the compacted soil will rise up a bit and you'll have a couple of humps running down the lawn. Someone else mentioned a This Old House episode - that's the right way to fix the ruts, but it's better to avoid the ruts in the first place. If, as someone else posted, you have that Princeton soil or whatever that gets rock hard when it's dry, then obviously you should just wait until it's dry. R |
Drive dump truck over lawn?
On May 15, 4:01*pm, RicodJour wrote:
On May 15, 1:20*pm, wrote: Thank you again for all the replies. *The neighbor said that she doesn't really care too much about her lawn (if you can believe that). * I don't, and more importantly, you shouldn't either. *You really, really don't want to use the neighbors property for access. *If the damage to her lawn is not exactly what she imagines - Murphy's Law being what it is - she won't be pleased. *If you are on good terms with the neighbor, keep it that way and find a better option. And I said that I would work my best to fix any damage, should any occur. That's where the issue comes in. *Your idea of best and hers will almost assuredly vary. Perhaps I will double up the plywood to 1" thick and see what happens. *Moving the plywood several times is going to be a hell of a lot easier than moving 5 tons of crushed stone via wheelbarrow. And afterwards, I don't care about the plywood at all - I bought it pretty much to sacrifice. *Another bonus is that I have 2 pallets of concrete pavers coming in before the stone - and they use a heavy duty forklift - so I can see how that fares before increasing the weight to a full truck. *thx...I'll let you know how it turns out. *Jus curious - anyone know approx how *many wheelbarrow trips it would take to move 5 tons of crushed stone anyway? You are blowing this thing _way_ out of proportion and focusing on the wrong things. *You should have mentioned the forklift in your first post as well. *You are making it difficult to help you by giving information in dribs and drabs. *Depending on what type of forklift the guy uses, it can damage your lawn as much if not more than the truck would. *The piggy-back forklifts can weigh three or four tons on their own, and that rear rotating wheel can dig a nice hole for you. You have to move some stuff and some weight, but it's not all that much stuff and not all that much weight. *Crushed stone is around 100 pounds per cubic foot. A high school kid can move 200 or 250 pounds per load, a day labor closer to twice that with the appropriate wheelbarrow. *A couple of high school kids and a couple of wheelbarrows would have the stuff moved in a day. *A day labor would move the stuff by himself in a day. *The wheelbarrow will not be damage-free for the lawn either, but the 1/2" OSB will be fine for that. I had to replace some drainage pipe. My neighbor wouldn't let me bring in a backhoe so I didn't fight the idea -- didn't want to **** of the neighbor. So I hired 2 high school kids between their junior and senior years. They moved stone all summer in 5 gallon buckets and wheel barrows. As seniors, they had their best years ever playing football. So your decsion is if it's worth a hundred or a hundred and a half to hire someone to move the stuff for you, or are you relations with your neighbor and both of your lawns not worth that much to you. *To me it seems to be a no-brainer. Someone posted about just filling in the ruts. *That doesn't work very well. *That compacted soil will not stay compacted forever without a load on it. *If you add a couple or three inches of dirt to fill it in, eventually the compacted soil will rise up a bit and you'll have a couple of humps running down the lawn. *Someone else mentioned a This Old House episode - that's the right way to fix the ruts, but it's better to avoid the ruts in the first place. *If, as someone else posted, you have that Princeton soil or whatever that gets rock hard when it's dry, then obviously you should just wait until it's dry. R |
Drive dump truck over lawn?
RicodJour wrote:
On May 15, 10:31 am, Steve Barker wrote: RicodJour wrote: Or tree roots. Avoid driving under the dripline of trees. HUH!? This is news to you...? http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/treecare/...on_damage.html Most of a tree's roots are near the surface. I still can't believe this is news to you. Are you joking? R Well i don't drive the trucks on the lawn often. AND i could really care less if i damage a damn tree root. JEEEEzeee.. Hell we put a new foundation under a house and cut several 4" roots CLEAN OFF and the tree is just fine. Not high on my priority list to worry about. |
Drive dump truck over lawn?
RicodJour wrote:
On May 15, 10:39 am, Steve Barker wrote: Pat wrote: On May 15, 9:21 am, Steve Barker wrote: You're looking at somewheres in the neighborhood of 20,000 lbs of weight, (and that's with a real small truck) on 6 tire with a contact area of approx 50 sq inches per tire. So that's about 66 lbs per square inch. And remember, the back is probably carrying more than the front, so the number may be closer to 100 lbs per square inch. You're gonna have some nice ruts unless the ground is just rock hard dried out. I agree that the you will probably be around 100 lb/inch^2, but I think your area calc are off a bit. I think the inflate tires on trucks to about 90 lbs/i^2 (unladen). If so, 20,000 lbs on 6 tires would be 37 i^2 per tire, not 50. 50 i^2 at 100 lb/i^2 with 6 tires is 30,000 lbs. If the inflate to 120 lbs/i^2, then of course your weight per square inch will well be somewhere above that number. I was just visualizing a 6x8 inch patch of contact. I've been around truck tires all my life and don't need a bunch of technical jargon to know how much tire is on the ground at a given time. Thanks for the input. Technical jargon? The only term Pat used that you didn't is unladen. Anyhoo, were you serious about being surprised that driving over tree roots can damage the tree? R yes, actually. I'd never heard that before. |
Drive dump truck over lawn?
Tony Hwang wrote:
wrote: I am getting 5 tons of modified (crushed) stone delivered via dump truck for a patio. I already have the area excavated, so most convenient would be for the truck to dump right in the hole...but would require driving over the rest of the lawn to get there. It's a small(er) truck, but I still wonder if it is going to destroy the lawn, especially since it rained hard last night. Any suggestions? I really don't feel like transporting 5 tons of stone by myself if I don't have to. Thanks, Hi, Use plywood sheets. I did that when drilling rig for water well came over my yard out at my cabin. it helped minimize tire ruts. Since the plywood will be cracked, bent and otherwise useless afterwards, that can be quite an expensive method at todays plywood prices, even if the driver can keep on the sheets. |
Drive dump truck over lawn?
On May 15, 6:35*pm, "EXT" wrote:
Since the plywood will be cracked, bent and otherwise useless afterwards, that can be quite an expensive method at todays plywood prices, even if the driver can keep on the sheets. And you'll need three strips for the piggy-back forklift. R |
Drive dump truck over lawn?
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Drive dump truck over lawn?
On May 15, 12:26*pm, RicodJour wrote:
On May 15, 10:39*am, Steve Barker wrote: Pat wrote: On May 15, 9:21 am, Steve Barker wrote: You're looking at somewheres in the neighborhood of 20,000 lbs of weight, (and that's with a real small truck) on 6 tire with a contact area of approx 50 sq inches per tire. *So that's about 66 lbs per square inch. *And remember, the back is probably carrying more than the front, so the number may be closer to 100 lbs per square inch. *You're gonna have some nice ruts unless the ground is just rock hard dried out. I agree that the you will probably be around 100 lb/inch^2, but I think your area calc are off a bit. I think the inflate tires on trucks to about 90 lbs/i^2 (unladen). *If so, 20,000 lbs on 6 tires would be 37 i^2 per tire, not 50. 50 i^2 at 100 lb/i^2 with 6 tires is 30,000 lbs. If the inflate to 120 lbs/i^2, then of course your weight per square inch will well be somewhere above that number. I was just visualizing a 6x8 inch patch of contact. *I've been around truck tires all my life and don't need a bunch of technical jargon to know how much tire is on the ground at a given time. *Thanks for the input. Technical jargon? *The only term Pat used that you didn't is unladen. I for one don't understand what Pat was saying either. Aside from dragging tire pressure into the picture, I don't see how tire pressure actually got factored into contact area of the tires on the ground to give any more realistic an estimate of the effects. Pat just made another guess as to the exact area. Like Steve, I can tell you a truck with 5 tons of load on a wet lawn isn't a good idea. Anyhoo, were you serious about being surprised that driving over tree roots can damage the tree? R |
Drive dump truck over lawn?
On May 16, 7:37*am, wrote:
On May 15, 12:26*pm, RicodJour wrote: Technical jargon? *The only term Pat used that you didn't is unladen. I for one don't understand what Pat was saying either. * * Aside from dragging tire pressure into the picture, I don't see how tire pressure actually got factored into contact area of the tires on the ground to give any more realistic an estimate of the effects. * * Pat just made another guess as to the exact area. * Like Steve, I can tell you a truck with 5 tons of load on a wet lawn isn't a good idea. Let's face it - no one understands what Pat is saying! Sorry, Pat. ;) I was merely referring to the "technical jargon" comment. Assuming that the truck's tires are within the normal range, there's not going to be a big effect, and it certainly won't have nearly the effect of the difference between a wet and dry lawn. R |
Drive dump truck over lawn?
On May 15, 8:08*am, wrote:
I am getting 5 tons of modified (crushed) stone delivered via dump truck for a patio. I already have the area excavated, so most convenient would be for the truck to dump right in the hole...but would require driving over the rest of the lawn to get there. *It's a small(er) truck, but I still wonder if it is going to destroy the lawn, especially since it rained hard last night. *Any suggestions? *I really don't feel like transporting 5 tons of stone by myself if I don't have to. Thanks, Follow some of the ideas posted here that seem apropos to your area. Overall, don't sweat the damage. Nature has a way of healing things, if you just ignore it. Freeze-thaw cycles, wet-dry cycles, all have the effect of leveling out irregularities. Right now I can see out my window the pristine lawn my neighbor has in the area where a couple of fully loaded ready-mix trucks delivered the concrete for his new garage floor. Give Nature a little help and let her do the rest. Joe |
Drive dump truck over lawn?
On May 16, 9:31*am, RicodJour wrote:
On May 16, 7:37*am, wrote: On May 15, 12:26*pm, RicodJour wrote: Technical jargon? *The only term Pat used that you didn't is unladen. |
Drive dump truck over lawn?
on 5/16/2009 4:19 PM (ET) Pat wrote the following:
On May 16, 9:31 am, RicodJour wrote: On May 16, 7:37 am, wrote: On May 15, 12:26 pm, RicodJour wrote: Technical jargon? The only term Pat used that you didn't is unladen. I for one don't understand what Pat was saying either. Aside from dragging tire pressure into the picture, I don't see how tire pressure actually got factored into contact area of the tires on the ground to give any more realistic an estimate of the effects. Pat just made another guess as to the exact area. Like Steve, I can tell you a truck with 5 tons of load on a wet lawn isn't a good idea. Let's face it - no one understands what Pat is saying! Sorry, Pat. ;) I was merely referring to the "technical jargon" comment. Assuming that the truck's tires are within the normal range, there's not going to be a big effect, and it certainly won't have nearly the effect of the difference between a wet and dry lawn. R Hey, hey. Just cuz I'm a hick from the sticks ... Tire pressure has EVERYTHING to do contact area. Take your car, for example. We'll use your car instead of my because mine is sort of messy right now. Let's say your car weighs 6000 lbs (just a random number). More unrealistic than random. A 3 ton car? The military Humvee is only 5500 lbs. It probably has 4 tires inflated to 30 lbs of pressure (okay, it should be 32 but you've been slacking off and haven't checked your tires lately). For ease, let's say the weight is distributed evenly so each tire holds 1,500 lbs. Got it so far? Rico, I know you do. Each square inch of tire is literally holding 30 lbs. That's why your tires are at 30 lbs per square inch. So if you take the 1,500 lbs at 30 lbs per square inch, then you have to have 50 square inches of contact space with the road. If your tire is 10" wide, then you have 5 inches on contact, front-to-back. Oh, but you didn't notice that one tire has a leak. The pressure has dropped to 20 lbs. How did you notice the leak? It looks "flat" and has more front-to-back contact with the road. So now the 1,500 lbs is supported at 20 lbs per square inch. Now it needs 75 inches of contact with the road. At 10 inches wide, you now have a 7.5" contact area. The flat look is just spreading the weight over a large area due to lower PSI. This also explains why your wife's smaller car has smaller tires. If her car weighs only 2500 lbs, then she needs only 625 lbs per tire. Therefore she needs only 20.8" (~ 20") of contact with the road. If she had the same 10" wide tire, it would have only 2" of contact, front-to-back. It would look funny, so the tire is made narrower, to say 6". This gives 3.33 inches of contact, front-to-back. Some people believe that if you want more traction in snow, you should let out some air from your tires. I don't think it really works, but it will give you more contact with the road because of the lower PSI. Finally, this also explains why your little, tiny donut spare has 50 psi in it. That's how they get it small. Trucks carry heavier loads. Therefore they use higher inflation in their tires. Otherwise the tires would have to be huge (probably really wide). Here's a corollary to think about. If you know (or can measure) how big the contact area between your car/truck is, and if you know what the tires are inflated to, then you can simply calculate the weight of the truck (without using a scale). How this help explain the relationship of tire pressure to contact space and therefore the amount or ruts in the lawn. -- Bill In Hamptonburgh, NY In the original Orange County. Est. 1683 To email, remove the double zeroes after @ |
Drive dump truck over lawn?
On May 16, 5:01*pm, willshak wrote:
on 5/16/2009 4:19 PM (ET) Pat wrote the following: Hey, hey. *Just cuz I'm a hick from the sticks ... Tire pressure has EVERYTHING to do contact area. No argument there, but I'm sure you're not assuming that the tires are grossly over or under inflated. They're probably inflated just about right, right? The wetness of the lawn has a far greater affect on the damage the lawn would experience than any amount of over or under inflation. Take your car, for example. *We'll use your car instead of my because mine is sort of messy right now. Let's say your car weighs 6000 lbs (just a random number). More unrealistic than random. A 3 ton car? The military Humvee is only 5500 lbs. The GM web site has this about the 3/4 ton Suburban: Curb Weight 6447.00 and the Hummer H2: curb weight (lbs) 6,413 R |
Drive dump truck over lawn?
On May 16, 4:19*pm, Pat wrote:
On May 16, 9:31*am, RicodJour wrote: On May 16, 7:37*am, wrote: On May 15, 12:26*pm, RicodJour wrote: Technical jargon? *The only term Pat used that you didn't is unladen. I for one don't understand what Pat was saying either. * * Aside from dragging tire pressure into the picture, I don't see how tire pressure actually got factored into contact area of the tires on the ground to give any more realistic an estimate of the effects. * * Pat just made another guess as to the exact area. * Like Steve, I can tell you a truck with 5 tons of load on a wet lawn isn't a good idea. Let's face it - no one understands what Pat is saying! *Sorry, Pat. *;) I was merely referring to the "technical jargon" comment. *Assuming that the truck's tires are within the normal range, there's not going to be a big effect, and it certainly won't have nearly the effect of the difference between a wet and dry lawn. R Hey, hey. *Just cuz I'm a hick from the sticks ... Tire pressure has EVERYTHING to do contact area. Take your car, for example. *We'll use your car instead of my because mine is sort of messy right now. Let's say your car weighs 6000 lbs (just a random number). *It probably has 4 tires inflated to 30 lbs of pressure (okay, it should be 32 but you've been slacking off and haven't checked your tires lately). *For ease, let's say the weight is distributed evenly so each tire holds 1,500 lbs. *Got it so far? *Rico, I know you do. Each square inch of tire is literally holding 30 lbs. And that is where the whole argument and analysis is wrong. Just because the tire is inflated to 30 PSI internally, does not mean there is 30 PSI applied to the contact area of the tire. I take a spare tire that's inflated to 30 psi and simply place it upright on the floor. According to your analysis, there is 30 PSI pressing against the floor across the contact area. Now I inflate it to 40PSI. According to your analysis, the contact area just got drastically smaller and the floor is now supporting 40PSI. But of course, we know that just isn't so. A tire inflated to 30 lbs, weighs what? About 30lbs or so? Meaning if your analysis was correct, the tire would have a contact area of a mere 1 square inch. In your example, each square inch of tire is actually holding whatever the total weight of the car is divided by the total contact area. Clearly that has some relationship to the pressure in the tire, but it's not simply equal to the internal tire pressure. *That's why your tires are at 30 lbs per square inch. * *So if you take the 1,500 lbs at 30 lbs per square inch, then you have to have 50 square inches of contact space with the road. *If your tire is 10" wide, then you have 5 inches on contact, front-to-back. Oh, but you didn't notice that one tire has a leak. *The pressure has dropped to 20 lbs. *How did you notice the leak? *It looks "flat" and has more front-to-back contact with the road. *So now the 1,500 lbs is supported at 20 lbs per square inch. *Now it needs 75 inches of contact with the road. *At 10 inches wide, you now have a 7.5" contact area. *The flat look is just spreading the weight over a large area due to lower PSI. This also explains why your wife's smaller car has smaller tires. *If her car weighs only 2500 lbs, then she needs only 625 lbs per tire. Therefore she needs only 20.8" (~ 20") of contact with the road. *If she had the same 10" wide tire, it would have only 2" of contact, front-to-back. *It would look funny, so the tire is made narrower, to say 6". *This gives 3.33 inches of contact, front-to-back. Some people believe that if you want more traction in snow, you should let out some air from your tires. *I don't think it really works, but it will give you more contact with the road because of the lower PSI. Finally, this also explains why your little, tiny donut spare has 50 psi in it. *That's how they get it small. Trucks carry heavier loads. *Therefore they use higher inflation in their tires. *Otherwise the tires would have to be huge (probably really wide). *Here's a corollary to think about. *If you know (or can measure) how big the contact area between your car/truck is, and if you know what the tires are inflated to, then you can simply calculate the weight of the truck (without using a scale). How this help explain the relationship of tire pressure to contact space and therefore the amount or ruts in the lawn. |
Drive dump truck over lawn?
Hey everyone - just to close the loop for anyone searching in the
future, here is the rest of the story: I was actually hoping the crushed stone would arrive before the forklift - and I would just find a way to get it onto a tarp on a pallet or two...but the forklift came first. He walked on the ground and assessed it to be okay...the wettest spot was on my own lawn - and he did leave a couple ruts about 2-3" deep...but didn't tear the lawn up at all. And that was a 7,000lb forklift and a 1.5ton load. When the dump truck came - his rig is a 26,000lb truck, with another 10,000 of material and he wouldn't even attempt it. He said that the 1" plywood would do absolutely nothing except get pulverized. He dumped on a tarp on the lawn and we moved by hand - took about 80 trips with the wheelbarrow less than heaping. My back is definitely sore today. Thanks again. |
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