I need to put up a fence for our puppy.

I plan on 4x4 PT posts, 4 feet above ground, 2 feet below.

I'm getting conflicting advice on concrete vs gravel vs just tamp the
dirt really tight. One expert even recommended concrete in buckets.
There seem to be several successful methods.

I want the posts to be removable eventually, for repair or moving the
fence area. So if concreted in, I'd want them to not be stuck to
it.

What do you think?

And yes, I know to call Miss Utility before digging.

TimR wrote:
I need to put up a fence for our puppy.

I plan on 4x4 PT posts, 4 feet above ground, 2 feet below.

I'm getting conflicting advice on concrete vs gravel vs just tamp the
dirt really tight. One expert even recommended concrete in buckets.
There seem to be several successful methods.

I want the posts to be removable eventually, for repair or moving the
fence area. So if concreted in, I'd want them to not be stuck to
it.

What do you think?

And yes, I know to call Miss Utility before digging.




Treated wood and a puppy I wouldn't recommend - they WILL chew. It
could really make for misery. They will chew everything. How about the
chain link panels? they make a dog ready set of four. I have a set and
they work well - can be moved easily and stored too. Don't forget
shade, a deck to lay on, and things to keep him occupied. Remember,
it's a puppy.

"TimR" wrote in message
...
I need to put up a fence for our puppy.

I plan on 4x4 PT posts, 4 feet above ground, 2 feet below.

I'm getting conflicting advice on concrete vs gravel vs just tamp the
dirt really tight. One expert even recommended concrete in buckets.
There seem to be several successful methods.

I want the posts to be removable eventually, for repair or moving the
fence area. So if concreted in, I'd want them to not be stuck to
it.

What do you think?

And yes, I know to call Miss Utility before digging.



Get a dog yard.

Go to Amazon.com and enter dog yard.

They have many different sizes at many different prices.

They are supposed to be easy to set up and take down as needed.

Freckles

"TimR" wrote in message
...
I need to put up a fence for our puppy.

I plan on 4x4 PT posts, 4 feet above ground, 2 feet below.

I'm getting conflicting advice on concrete vs gravel vs just tamp the
dirt really tight. One expert even recommended concrete in buckets.
There seem to be several successful methods.

I want the posts to be removable eventually, for repair or moving the
fence area. So if concreted in, I'd want them to not be stuck to
it.

What do you think?

And yes, I know to call Miss Utility before digging.

three or four chain link fence sections. no holes, no poles. instant dog
pen.

"TimR" wrote in message
...
I need to put up a fence for our puppy.

I plan on 4x4 PT posts, 4 feet above ground, 2 feet below.

I'm getting conflicting advice on concrete vs gravel vs just tamp the
dirt really tight. One expert even recommended concrete in buckets.
There seem to be several successful methods.

I want the posts to be removable eventually, for repair or moving the
fence area. So if concreted in, I'd want them to not be stuck to
it.

What do you think?

And yes, I know to call Miss Utility before digging.


If you're gonna fence the puppy in, why have one?

Rick Samuel wrote:
"TimR" wrote in message
...
I need to put up a fence for our puppy.

I plan on 4x4 PT posts, 4 feet above ground, 2 feet below.

I'm getting conflicting advice on concrete vs gravel vs just tamp the
dirt really tight. One expert even recommended concrete in buckets.
There seem to be several successful methods.

I want the posts to be removable eventually, for repair or moving the
fence area. So if concreted in, I'd want them to not be stuck to
it.

What do you think?

And yes, I know to call Miss Utility before digging.


If you're gonna fence the puppy in, why have one?

So you aren't sharing it with the neighbors?

To keep animal control from bothering you?

TimR wrote:
I need to put up a fence for our puppy.

I plan on 4x4 PT posts, 4 feet above ground, 2 feet below.

I'm getting conflicting advice on concrete vs gravel vs just tamp the
dirt really tight. One expert even recommended concrete in buckets.
There seem to be several successful methods.

I want the posts to be removable eventually, for repair or moving the
fence area. So if concreted in, I'd want them to not be stuck to
it.

What do you think?

And yes, I know to call Miss Utility before digging.

I've heard good things about setting the posts in crushed gravel. It provides
drainage so the water can get away from the posts.

TimR wrote:

I need to put up a fence for our puppy.

I plan on 4x4 PT posts, 4 feet above ground, 2 feet below.

I'm getting conflicting advice on concrete vs gravel vs just tamp the
dirt really tight. One expert even recommended concrete in buckets.
There seem to be several successful methods.

I want the posts to be removable eventually, for repair or moving the
fence area. So if concreted in, I'd want them to not be stuck to
it.

What do you think?

And yes, I know to call Miss Utility before digging.

Ditto on the pressure-treated posts someone else mentioned--toxicity issues.
It's also worth remembering dogs can dig pretty good, especially if they're
bored or frustrated. Don't sink the posts into the ground, use galvanized
steel brackets set in concrete (in buckets if you like); the posts nail or
screw into the brackets so you can remove or repair them later and are less
prone to rot. If need be you can later remove the posts and dig up the
concrete and the fence is gone. Also ditto on the shade, ample water etc.

Bob F wrote:
Rick Samuel wrote:
"TimR" wrote in message
...
I need to put up a fence for our puppy.

I plan on 4x4 PT posts, 4 feet above ground, 2 feet below.

I'm getting conflicting advice on concrete vs gravel vs just tamp the
dirt really tight. One expert even recommended concrete in buckets.
There seem to be several successful methods.

I want the posts to be removable eventually, for repair or moving the
fence area. So if concreted in, I'd want them to not be stuck to
it.

What do you think?

And yes, I know to call Miss Utility before digging.

If you're gonna fence the puppy in, why have one?

So you aren't sharing it with the neighbors?

How would a fence prevent that? New neighbor behind us got a puppy that
they apparently don't want. So they erected a makeshift cage with some
chain link and put the dog in the cage and just let it bark endlessly.
Everyone let it go for a while because you don't know the circumstances
but after a while the complaints poured in about the barking. Clearly
they didn't want the dog and should have never bought it if they just
wanted to park it in the yard in a cage.


To keep animal control from bothering you?

TimR wrote:

I need to put up a fence for our puppy.

I plan on 4x4 PT posts, 4 feet above ground, 2 feet below.
-snip-
I want the posts to be removable eventually, for repair or moving the
fence area. So if concreted in, I'd want them to not be stuck to
it.

If it isn't planned on being permanent, the PT posts are a bad idea.
[not to mention that you need to take puppy-precautions with it]

Quick and dirty way would be T-posts. Spend the money you save on a
driver and a puller.
http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/w...88+1509+796700

Better way would be to make iron frame sections that hook together in
the corners-- or buy a ready-made exercise pen.
[I don't endorse this outfit- it was just the first one I saw to
illustrate the thought-- actually that Shepard sitting in a pen that
is too small for it would turn me off from buying from them-
http://www.dogkennels.com/dog-kennel...en& tid=broad


What do you think?

Tough to say- What kind of dog? how big an area? Why do you want a
fenced in area? To leave the dog in while you're in the yard? while
you're at work? most of its life?

If the latter, then I'd advise you pass on a puppy. If for any
legitimate reason, then you need to answer whether the space needs to
be big enough for the breed to exercise? Does it need a bottom so
the dog doesn't dig its way out?

Also- the fence is the easy part. Once you know what the usage will
be, you need to consider what the floor will be made of. *That's*
the tough part.


And yes, I know to call Miss Utility before digging.

Goes for driving posts, too, BTW.

Jim

On May 7, 8:09*am, Jim Elbrecht wrote:
TimR wrote:
I need to put up a fence for our puppy.

I plan on 4x4 PT posts, 4 feet above ground, 2 feet below.
-snip-
I want the posts to be removable eventually, for repair or moving the
fence area. *So if concreted in, I'd want them to not be stuck to
it.

If it isn't planned on being permanent, the PT posts are a bad idea.
[not to mention that you need to take puppy-precautions with it]

Quick and dirty way would be T-posts. * *Spend the money you save on a
driver and a puller.http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/w...ategory_6970_8...

Better way would be to make iron frame sections that hook together in
the corners-- or buy a ready-made exercise pen.
[I don't endorse this outfit- it was just the first one I saw to
illustrate the thought-- actually that Shepard sitting in a pen that
is too small for it would turn me off from buying from them-http://www.dogkennels.com/dog-kennels/dog-exercise-pens/6996+6997+700...



*What do you think?

Tough to say- What kind of dog? * how big an area? Why do you want a
fenced in area? *To leave the dog in while you're in the yard? *while
you're at work? most of its life?

If the latter, then I'd advise you pass on a puppy. * *If for any
legitimate reason, then you need to answer whether the space needs to
be big enough for the breed to exercise? * *Does it need a bottom so
the dog doesn't dig its way out?

Also- the fence is the easy part. *Once you know what the usage will
be, you need to consider what the floor will be made of. * *That's*
the tough part.



And yes, I know to call Miss Utility before digging.

Goes for driving posts, too, BTW.

Jim

I see I didn't explain very well.

No, I don't want to pen her up. She's an indoor dog, she's part of
the family. But she needs a safe and secure place to toilet and
exercise. She's a terrier mix with all that entails - high energy and
hardwired to chase small animals. We live on the edge of some
undeveloped woods, and if she sees a squirrel that magic switch turns
on. err, ON! I'd like to run chainlink around the edge of the
property, and eventually I probably will. But for now I want to fence
in about a 30x40 (feet) area of yard behind the house. Currently we
keep her on leash at all times out of the house, and I'd like to let
her run a bit more, since I have a bit of trouble keeping up. She's
only five months but quite fit.

I don't intend to leave her unattended out there for long periods of
time, because I worry about the neighborhood critters: raccoons,
oppossums, and the neighbor's boxer that can jump their fence in one
hop.

I didn't think of T-posts, I don't have any experience with them.

On May 7, 8:32*am, TimR wrote:
I didn't think of T-posts, I don't have any experience with them.- Hide quoted text -

If you're going to use chainlink why not use the galvanized metal
posts that are meant for chainlink fence? You only need to secure the
corner posts. The rest can be driven into the ground.

On May 6, 9:51*pm, TimR wrote:
I need to put up a fence for our puppy.

I plan on 4x4 PT posts, 4 feet above ground, 2 feet below.

I'm getting conflicting advice on concrete vs gravel vs just tamp the
dirt really tight. *One expert even recommended concrete in buckets.
There seem to be several successful methods.

I want the posts to be removable eventually, for repair or moving the
fence area. *So if concreted in, I'd want them to not be stuck to
it.

* What do you think?

And yes, I know to call Miss Utility before digging.

Where do you live to be able to get away with only 2 feet in ground?
An easy way is:

1) dig post hole
2) insert post
3) plumb it with some stakes for support
4) add a bag of dry concrete to bottom of hole (yes dry)
5) backfill over the dry concrete with the clay from the post hole
6) compress it with your feet
7) water it a little (or wait for rain)

The concrete will set up well enough to hold the post firmly. But it
will not set up so hard that you wont be able to easily crack it off
with a sledge hammer when you want to move the fence some day.

On May 7, 10:17*am, RickH wrote:
On May 6, 9:51*pm, TimR wrote:

I need to put up a fence for our puppy.

I plan on 4x4 PT posts, 4 feet above ground, 2 feet below.

I'm getting conflicting advice on concrete vs gravel vs just tamp the
dirt really tight. *One expert even recommended concrete in buckets.
There seem to be several successful methods.

I want the posts to be removable eventually, for repair or moving the
fence area. *So if concreted in, I'd want them to not be stuck to
it.

* What do you think?

And yes, I know to call Miss Utility before digging.

Where do you live to be able to get away with only 2 feet in ground?
An easy way is:

1) dig post hole
2) insert post
3) plumb it with some stakes for support
4) add a bag of dry concrete to bottom of hole (yes dry)
5) backfill over the dry concrete with the clay from the post hole
6) compress it with your feet
7) water it a little (or wait for rain)

The concrete will set up well enough to hold the post firmly. *But it
will not set up so hard that you wont be able to easily crack it off
with a sledge hammer when you want to move the fence some day.

Now, that sounds like a lot less work than mixing and pouring. Sort
of a pozzolan approach. I think that would work. also it sounds
easier than gravel, which is heavy and would need a truck to
deliver.

I wonder about two things. It seems to me that if a square post fits
snugly in a square hole in concrete, it doesn't need to adhere.
Geometry would hold it tight. What if I oiled the posts first? Then
I could lift the posts out and leave the concrete in place, when I
move the fence.

Secondly, you have the concrete at the bottom of the hole. Seems to
me when a post gets loose it pivots at the bottom. A solid piece of
concrete at the top of the hole would give a second point of
constraint, and fix the post more firmly than one at the bottom.

Would you go with sandcrete or rockcrete?

"TimR" wrote in message
...
On May 7, 10:17 am, RickH wrote:
On May 6, 9:51 pm, TimR wrote:

I need to put up a fence for our puppy.

I plan on 4x4 PT posts, 4 feet above ground, 2 feet below.

I'm getting conflicting advice on concrete vs gravel vs just tamp the
dirt really tight. One expert even recommended concrete in buckets.
There seem to be several successful methods.

I want the posts to be removable eventually, for repair or moving the
fence area. So if concreted in, I'd want them to not be stuck to
it.

What do you think?

And yes, I know to call Miss Utility before digging.

Where do you live to be able to get away with only 2 feet in ground?
An easy way is:

1) dig post hole
2) insert post
3) plumb it with some stakes for support
4) add a bag of dry concrete to bottom of hole (yes dry)
5) backfill over the dry concrete with the clay from the post hole
6) compress it with your feet
7) water it a little (or wait for rain)

The concrete will set up well enough to hold the post firmly. But it
will not set up so hard that you wont be able to easily crack it off
with a sledge hammer when you want to move the fence some day.

Now, that sounds like a lot less work than mixing and pouring. Sort
of a pozzolan approach. I think that would work. also it sounds
easier than gravel, which is heavy and would need a truck to
deliver.

I wonder about two things. It seems to me that if a square post fits
snugly in a square hole in concrete, it doesn't need to adhere.
Geometry would hold it tight. What if I oiled the posts first? Then
I could lift the posts out and leave the concrete in place, when I
move the fence.

Secondly, you have the concrete at the bottom of the hole. Seems to
me when a post gets loose it pivots at the bottom. A solid piece of
concrete at the top of the hole would give a second point of
constraint, and fix the post more firmly than one at the bottom.

Would you go with sandcrete or rockcrete?


*There is available special fast setting concrete for posts and fences. You
dump it in the hole dry and add water or not. You should put a few inches
of stone first so the post bottom is not in contact with soil.

If this is only temporary I would not use concrete. I would just put some
stones in the hole and set the posts. You will need to brace them until the
fence is complete to keep it straight if no concrete is used.

If this is just temporary, forget the fence. Run a long wire
overhead. Attach a long leash to the overhead wire with a swivel
clip.

Much easier. Much cheaper. Much easier to take down.

An easier and cheaper method:

http://www.dogkennels.com/

Lowes and Home Depot sell very similar arrangements.

TimR wrote:
I need to put up a fence for our puppy.

I plan on 4x4 PT posts, 4 feet above ground, 2 feet below.

I'm getting conflicting advice on concrete vs gravel vs just tamp the
dirt really tight. One expert even recommended concrete in buckets.
There seem to be several successful methods.

I want the posts to be removable eventually, for repair or moving the
fence area. So if concreted in, I'd want them to not be stuck to
it.

What do you think?

And yes, I know to call Miss Utility before digging.

On May 6, 9:51*pm, TimR wrote:
I need to put up a fence for our puppy.

I plan on 4x4 PT posts, 4 feet above ground, 2 feet below.

I'm getting conflicting advice on concrete vs gravel vs just tamp the
dirt really tight. *One expert even recommended concrete in buckets.
There seem to be several successful methods.

I want the posts to be removable eventually, for repair or moving the
fence area. *So if concreted in, I'd want them to not be stuck to
it.

* What do you think?

And yes, I know to call Miss Utility before digging.

The issue of how to set fence posts has been discussed many times in
this group. My impression is the better advice was to not use
concrete, as it tends to hold moisture causing the wooden post to rot
faster. Instead you can set the post in the hole using crushed rock -
the stuff they make gravel driveways out of. You tamp it in and after
a while it kind of sets into a solid, but is still permeable. I set
my wooden posts that way when I put in my fence a few years ago, and
it worked fine, although after the first winter I had to do a little
straightening here and there. You can pull the posts back out pretty
easily (I have done it) and then you don't have big heavy lumps of
concrete embedded in your yard. About the gravel - don't use pea
gravel, you want the fine crushed stuff. Of course, all of this
depends somewhat on your climate conditions. In a warm dry place you
probably wouldn't have to worry about rot anyway.

All that being said, let me just say, it might be easier and better to
use chain link and the galvanized metal posts. The posts are just
driven in (easier than digging all those holes), can be pulled back
out, and they last a long time. The chain link part can also be
removed, rolled up and reinstalled elsewhere. When I put my wood
fence in, I first had to remove the chain link fence that was there -
and came away very impressed with it. It was at LEAST 20 years old,
in a harsh climate (Chicago) and was just fine. -- H

on 5/6/2009 10:51 PM (ET) TimR wrote the following:
I need to put up a fence for our puppy.

I plan on 4x4 PT posts, 4 feet above ground, 2 feet below.

I'm getting conflicting advice on concrete vs gravel vs just tamp the
dirt really tight. One expert even recommended concrete in buckets.
There seem to be several successful methods.

I want the posts to be removable eventually, for repair or moving the
fence area. So if concreted in, I'd want them to not be stuck to
it.

What do you think?

And yes, I know to call Miss Utility before digging.

And check with the building inspector for set back ordinances.
I had a fence company install a fence with PT posts and 8' wide by 6'
high panels around my inground pool. No gravel or concrete in the post
holes except for the corners and gate posts. It's still up 22 years
later. I'm in NY so the depth of the holes were 4' deep.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

On Thu, 07 May 2009 17:46:02 -0400, willshak
wrote:

on 5/6/2009 10:51 PM (ET) TimR wrote the following:
I need to put up a fence for our puppy.

I plan on 4x4 PT posts, 4 feet above ground, 2 feet below.

I'm getting conflicting advice on concrete vs gravel vs just tamp the
dirt really tight. One expert even recommended concrete in buckets.
There seem to be several successful methods.

I want the posts to be removable eventually, for repair or moving the
fence area. So if concreted in, I'd want them to not be stuck to
it.

What do you think?

And yes, I know to call Miss Utility before digging.

And check with the building inspector for set back ordinances.
I had a fence company install a fence with PT posts and 8' wide by 6'
high panels around my inground pool. No gravel or concrete in the post
holes except for the corners and gate posts. It's still up 22 years
later. I'm in NY so the depth of the holes were 4' deep.


I used the "spikes" that you drive into the ground, then stick the 4X4
posts into. They've been in about 20 years and have not moved - and if
I need to move the fence they will jack out relatively easily.
Pressure treated posts directly in the hole would be getting pretty
soft by now.

My deck was on 4X4 CEDAR in concrete in sonotubes for 28 years.
The posts rotted (off) in the concrete. I was able to pull the remains
out of the concrete and I drove my new (pressure treated southern
yellow pine) posts into the concrete in 7 of the 8 holes.

Bob F wrote:
Rick Samuel wrote:
"TimR" wrote in message
...
I need to put up a fence for our puppy.

I plan on 4x4 PT posts, 4 feet above ground, 2 feet below.

I'm getting conflicting advice on concrete vs gravel vs just tamp the
dirt really tight. One expert even recommended concrete in buckets.
There seem to be several successful methods.

I want the posts to be removable eventually, for repair or moving the
fence area. So if concreted in, I'd want them to not be stuck to
it.

What do you think?

And yes, I know to call Miss Utility before digging.

If you're gonna fence the puppy in, why have one?

So you aren't sharing it with the neighbors?

To keep animal control from bothering you?



Hi,
Here if a dog runs free, fine is 250.00 to the owner. Dogs can run free
only in designated leash free park. If owner does not pick after the
dog, another 250.00 fine.

wrote in news:jb0u055k85nni14pe81c5prs9ihinnubdn@
4ax.com:

On Wed, 6 May 2009 19:51:01 -0700 (PDT), TimR
wrote:

I need to put up a fence for our puppy.

I plan on 4x4 PT posts, 4 feet above ground, 2 feet below.

I'm getting conflicting advice on concrete vs gravel vs just tamp the
dirt really tight. One expert even recommended concrete in buckets.
There seem to be several successful methods.

I want the posts to be removable eventually, for repair or moving the
fence area. So if concreted in, I'd want them to not be stuck to
it.

What do you think?

And yes, I know to call Miss Utility before digging.




If you want to move the fence at a later date, then do not dig holes
at all. Simply duct tape the posts to your lawn, and build the fence.
When it comes time to move it, all you need to do is remove the duct
tape, move the fence as desired, and apply new duct tape to the posts.



Congradulations Letterman! You have just qualified to submit an
application for membership in the Possum Lodge.

"Red Green" wrote in message
...
wrote in news:jb0u055k85nni14pe81c5prs9ihinnubdn@
4ax.com:

On Wed, 6 May 2009 19:51:01 -0700 (PDT), TimR
wrote:

I need to put up a fence for our puppy.

I plan on 4x4 PT posts, 4 feet above ground, 2 feet below.

I'm getting conflicting advice on concrete vs gravel vs just tamp the
dirt really tight. One expert even recommended concrete in buckets.
There seem to be several successful methods.

I want the posts to be removable eventually, for repair or moving the
fence area. So if concreted in, I'd want them to not be stuck to
it.

What do you think?

And yes, I know to call Miss Utility before digging.




If you want to move the fence at a later date, then do not dig holes
at all. Simply duct tape the posts to your lawn, and build the fence.
When it comes time to move it, all you need to do is remove the duct
tape, move the fence as desired, and apply new duct tape to the posts.



Congradulations Letterman! You have just qualified to submit an
application for membership in the Possum Lodge.


My first thought about responding was....

vertically.