Hi:

I've got a couple of questions here but need to describe the situation
a bit.

I've got some pretty severe termite and dry rot problems around a tub
area. The interior of the bathroom has been completely removed and
I'm looking at the studs on the exterior wall that forms the tub
area. In a couple of areas the sole plate is completely gone and the
studs are just hanging from the top plate.

The exterior wall is stucco and, based on what I've read on the
Internet, I should also be looking at sheathing that's been nailed to
the exterior studs to provide a base for the building paper, spacers
and wire mesh to which the stucco is applied. But I'm not.

What I'm seeing is the building paper and wire mesh and, in some
places where the building paper is gone, the "backside" of the
stucco. No sheathing. I assume this is some sort of alternate method
of applying stucco to an exterior wall. Is that the case?

I can slightly rock the studs that have no sole plate from side to
side but no more. I assume they're being held in place by the nails/
staples/whatever that were used to attach the building paper and wire
mesh to the studs.

What's the best way to remove these studs from the exterior wall
without damaging the stucco? If the studs were nailed to sheathing
I'd be tempted to simply pry them loose but that seems risky given the
situation.

TIA.

Tom Young

On May 2, 2:43*pm, TomYoung wrote:

snip

The exterior wall is stucco and, based on what I've read on the
Internet, I should also be looking at sheathing that's been nailed to
the exterior studs to provide a base for the building paper, spacers
and wire mesh to which the stucco is applied. *But I'm not.

What I'm seeing is the building paper and wire mesh and, in some
places where the building paper is gone, the "backside" of the
stucco. *No sheathing. *I assume this is some sort of alternate method
of applying stucco to an exterior wall. *Is that the case?

snip

What you're looking at is an extreme example of code violating,
corner cutting, shoddy construction. Maybe I'm wrong, but it might be
best just to bulldoze the structure and build a decent house. Get an
opinion from your local city building inspector if you aren't afraid
of real bad news. Trying to salvage anything from your Pandora's box
could be a ghastly money waste. Try to find some professionals to
advise you before you get in too deep. Good luck.

Joe

On 5/2/2009 12:43 PM TomYoung spake thus:

I've got some pretty severe termite and dry rot problems around a tub
area. The interior of the bathroom has been completely removed and
I'm looking at the studs on the exterior wall that forms the tub
area. In a couple of areas the sole plate is completely gone and the
studs are just hanging from the top plate.

The exterior wall is stucco and, based on what I've read on the
Internet, I should also be looking at sheathing that's been nailed to
the exterior studs to provide a base for the building paper, spacers
and wire mesh to which the stucco is applied. But I'm not.

What I'm seeing is the building paper and wire mesh and, in some
places where the building paper is gone, the "backside" of the
stucco. No sheathing. I assume this is some sort of alternate method
of applying stucco to an exterior wall. Is that the case?

Yes, you could call it an "alternate method"; certainly not a *good* method.

I've worked on houses where the exterior sheathing was not
continuous--1x boards nailed over the studs with spaces between them,
like the way roofs are sometimes done. This is obviously done to save
material, and is not the ideal way to do things. Is it possible that
there are sheathing boards under that building paper with spaces between
them?

What's the best way to remove these studs from the exterior wall
without damaging the stucco? If the studs were nailed to sheathing
I'd be tempted to simply pry them loose but that seems risky given the
situation.

My guess is "no way". To fix the wall you're going to have to remove the
stucco, re-frame the wall, sheathe it properly, then re-stucco it.


--
Save the Planet
Kill Yourself

- motto of the Church of Euthanasia (http://www.churchofeuthanasia.org/)

On May 2, 2:43*pm, TomYoung wrote:
Hi:

I've got a couple of questions here but need to describe the situation
a bit.

I've got some pretty severe termite and dry rot problems around a tub
area. *The interior of the bathroom has been completely removed and
I'm looking at the studs on the exterior wall that forms the tub
area. *In a couple of areas the sole plate is completely gone and the
studs are just hanging from the top plate.

The exterior wall is stucco and, based on what I've read on the
Internet, I should also be looking at sheathing that's been nailed to
the exterior studs to provide a base for the building paper, spacers
and wire mesh to which the stucco is applied. *But I'm not.

What I'm seeing is the building paper and wire mesh and, in some
places where the building paper is gone, the "backside" of the
stucco. *No sheathing. *I assume this is some sort of alternate method
of applying stucco to an exterior wall. *Is that the case?

I can slightly rock the studs that have no sole plate from side to
side but no more. *I assume they're being held in place by the nails/
staples/whatever that were used to attach the building paper and wire
mesh to the studs.

What's the best way to remove these studs from the exterior wall
without damaging the stucco? *If the studs were nailed to sheathing
I'd be tempted to simply pry them loose but that seems risky given the
situation.

TIA.

Tom Young

--------------------------
I had similar termite problems both in the garage and in the kitchen
(I discovered them right after I bought the house -- inspection was a
fraud!). I fixed them (myself) by first removing the sheetrock and
then removing the infected potions of the studs as high as needed. I
used a skillsaw (be very careful) using a cutting depth slightly less
than the width of the stud to avoid nicking the blade. I ran the saw
at top of the infected portion of the stud and again about a fot
lower. I then used a hammer to gently dislodge that piece of the
stud. Once done, the lower part can be yanked out (be gentle) from
the baseboard. Next I removed the baseboard and started the reframing
starting with a new baseboard. You will need to sister the full studs
on both sides of the infected area, put a cross 2x4 to support what
remains of the infected studs (much like you frame a door opening).
Finally, you need to put short studs in the "door" opening to support
the cross 2X4 (you get the idea by now).

I must say that in both jobs, I did not find it necessary to remove or
damage any of the stucco.

By the way, I used treated pine for replacement, and I further treated
then with some termite-fighting chemical whaich can be bought from
specialty stores.

On 5/2/2009 7:15 PM spake thus:

I had similar termite problems both in the garage and in the kitchen
(I discovered them right after I bought the house -- inspection was a
fraud!). I fixed them (myself) by first removing the sheetrock and
then removing the infected potions of the studs as high as needed.

[...]

I must say that in both jobs, I did not find it necessary to remove or
damage any of the stucco.

Interesting, but I'm wondering how you secured the new framing to the
stucco. Did you just nail the stucco to the studs from the outside?
Seems like a good chance of cracking the stucco that way. (I suppose you
could drive screws instead.)


--
Save the Planet
Kill Yourself

- motto of the Church of Euthanasia (http://www.churchofeuthanasia.org/)

On May 3, 1:40*am, David Nebenzahl wrote:
On 5/2/2009 7:15 PM spake thus:

I had similar termite problems both in the garage and in the kitchen
(I discovered them right after I bought the house -- inspection was a
fraud!). *I fixed them (myself) by first removing the sheetrock and
then removing the infected potions of the studs as high as needed.

[...]

I must say that in both jobs, I did not find it necessary to remove or
damage any of the stucco.

Interesting, but I'm wondering how you secured the new framing to the
stucco. Did you just nail the stucco to the studs from the outside?
Seems like a good chance of cracking the stucco that way. (I suppose you
could drive screws instead.)

--
Save the Planet
Kill Yourself

- motto of the Church of Euthanasia (http://www.churchofeuthanasia.org/)

-----------------
The job was done in 2004 and as of 2009 there is no sign of stucco
problems. The trick was that the new framing was done soooooo tight
that it did not allow sagging (this is done by using slightly
oversized studs, inserting them in the cavity at an angle, and then
hammering them into vertical position). I must add that the stucco had
a styrfom (sp?) backing (1-1/2" thick) and that could be a factor.
Another factor could be that the walls were not load-bearing. I may
also add that the studs I had to replace in the garage were supporting
an 8X12 front porche beam which I needed to brace very snuggly with
the new studs.

On May 3, 10:57*am, wrote:

The job was done in 2004 and as of 2009 there is no sign of stucco
problems. *The trick was that the new framing was done soooooo tight
that it did not allow sagging (this is done by using slightly
oversized studs, inserting them in the cavity at an angle, and then
hammering them into vertical position). I must add that the stucco had
a styrfom (sp?) backing (1-1/2" thick) and that could be a factor.
Another factor could be that the walls were not load-bearing. *I may
also add that the studs I had to replace in the garage were supporting
an 8X12 front porche beam which I needed to brace very snuggly with
the new studs.

You're talking about EIFS - the insulated acrylic stucco. The OP is
talking about cementitious stucco - the old time stuff that is put on
in three coats and is on wire mesh. There is nothing similar about
the two other than the name and the finished wall surface (almost).

R

On May 2, 6:49*pm, Joe wrote:

What you're looking at is *an extreme example of code violating,
corner cutting, shoddy construction.

How can the code be violated before the code was enacted?

R

On May 3, 12:04 pm, RicodJour wrote:
On May 3, 10:57 am, wrote:



The job was done in 2004 and as of 2009 there is no sign of stucco
problems. The trick was that the new framing was done soooooo tight
that it did not allow sagging (this is done by using slightly
oversized studs, inserting them in the cavity at an angle, and then
hammering them into vertical position). I must add that the stucco had
a styrfom (sp?) backing (1-1/2" thick) and that could be a factor.
Another factor could be that the walls were not load-bearing. I may
also add that the studs I had to replace in the garage were supporting
an 8X12 front porche beam which I needed to brace very snuggly with
the new studs.

You're talking about EIFS - the insulated acrylic stucco. The OP is
talking about cementitious stucco - the old time stuff that is put on
in three coats and is on wire mesh. There is nothing similar about
the two other than the name and the finished wall surface (almost).

R


And regardless, I don't see how you can remove all the studs along a
wall and then leave the exterior stucco of that wall attached to
nothing. If I was going to attempt to salvage this without redoing
stucco, I'd at least use construction adhesive to bond the new studs
to the wire/stucco backside.

On May 3, 1:28*pm, wrote:

And regardless, I don't see how you can remove all the studs along a
wall and then leave the exterior stucco of that wall attached to
nothing. * If I was going to attempt to salvage this without redoing
stucco, I'd at least use construction adhesive to bond the new studs
to the wire/stucco backside.

A lot of construction adhesive. The studs most likely won't be in the
same place as the old studs, they'll probably be sistered next to an
existing stud, and the back of the stucco is unlikely to be smooth and
straight.

To the OP: What you're attempting to do is risky. Even if you do
things "perfectly" the stucco might still crack. If it's in very good
condition and was reasonably thick stucco, I'd try to save it, too.
I'd have to eyeball the situation to determine if the added difficulty
in working around the existing stucco made saving the stucco
worthwhile.

Houses in parts of the country were built with clapboards directly on
the studs when most of the country was sheathing the framing. Not
sure what part of the country you're in, but your stucco construction
might be not uncommon for your area. Not having sheathing on the back
of the stucco actually makes sense in some ways, and can actually be
beneficial. Letting a wall dry out to the inside as well as the
outside helped reduce decay and mold growth.

From the sound of it you're on a slab, right? If so you can deal with
the rotted bottom plate easily enough. You should investigate the
house construction some more to find out what is providing the racking
resistance (google it). Normally the sheathing does the work, but let-
in braces were in vogue for a while. If your house has neither, and
you're in an 'interesting' area subjected to hurricanes, tornadoes,
earthquakes (damn, I'm depressing myself) or the like, you may want to
look into upgrading.

You don't have to remove the entire stud, just the rotted part. Use a
circular saw set to the correct depth as already posted, and make a
nice square cut. Make some more in the piece to be removed and then
use a chisel, sawzall, Fein Multimaster 636, angle grinder, and
patience and remove the sections so you don't stress those mesh
nails. Then use the angle grinder with a metal cutoff wheel. A
diamond one is the best IMO for all around use and it makes trimming
back wayward nails a breeze. Then you'll cut two pieces of treated 2x
- one a full length stud, and the other to fill in where you removed
the piece. The remaining part of the existing stud secures the stucco
to the framing and the new pieces provide the support. Glue and screw
the wood together with appropriate fasteners. As noted liberally
applied construction adhesive will aid in fastening the stucco to the
new framing. The building paper is in the way of the adhesive, so
it'll have to be removed where the stud repair parts go.

R

On May 3, 8:30*pm, RicodJour wrote:
On May 3, 1:28*pm, wrote:



And regardless, I don't see how you can remove all the studs along a
wall and then leave the exterior stucco of that wall attached to
nothing. * If I was going to attempt to salvage this without redoing
stucco, I'd at least use construction adhesive to bond the new studs
to the wire/stucco backside.

A lot of construction adhesive. *The studs most likely won't be in the
same place as the old studs, they'll probably be sistered next to an
existing stud, and the back of the stucco is unlikely to be smooth and
straight.

To the OP: *What you're attempting to do is risky. *Even if you do
things "perfectly" the stucco might still crack. *If it's in very good
condition and was reasonably thick stucco, I'd try to save it, too.
I'd have to eyeball the situation to determine if the added difficulty
in working around the existing stucco made saving the stucco
worthwhile.

Houses in parts of the country were built with clapboards directly on
the studs when most of the country was sheathing the framing. *Not
sure what part of the country you're in, but your stucco construction
might be not uncommon for your area. *Not having sheathing on the back
of the stucco actually makes sense in some ways, and can actually be
beneficial. *Letting a wall dry out to the inside as well as the
outside helped reduce decay and mold growth.

From the sound of it you're on a slab, right? *If so you can deal with
the rotted bottom plate easily enough. *You should investigate the
house construction some more to find out what is providing the racking
resistance (google it). *Normally the sheathing does the work, but let-
in braces were in vogue for a while. *If your house has neither, and
you're in an 'interesting' area subjected to hurricanes, tornadoes,
earthquakes (damn, I'm depressing myself) or the like, you may want to
look into upgrading.

You don't have to remove the entire stud, just the rotted part. *Use a
circular saw set to the correct depth as already posted, and make a
nice square cut. *Make some more in the piece to be removed and then
use a chisel, sawzall, Fein Multimaster 636, angle grinder, and
patience and remove the sections so you don't stress those mesh
nails. *Then use the angle grinder with a metal cutoff wheel. *A
diamond one is the best IMO for all around use and it makes trimming
back wayward nails a breeze. *Then you'll cut two pieces of treated 2x
- one a full length stud, and the other to fill in where you removed
the piece. *The remaining part of the existing stud secures the stucco
to the framing and the new pieces provide the support. *Glue and screw
the wood together with appropriate fasteners. *As noted liberally
applied construction adhesive will aid in fastening the stucco to the
new framing. *The building paper is in the way of the adhesive, so
it'll have to be removed where the stud repair parts go.

R

I spoke to a building inspector in my town (San Francisco Bay area)
about this construction and he said that given the age of the
construction (pre-1975 is all I know at this point) that the lack of
sheathing may have met code at the time. The area I'm working in is
an addition to the existing house (built 1941) so I'll need to truck
up to the county seat and do the research to see if it was permitted.
(Not that it means much after all this time.)

Given the damage to the subfloor and sole plate I'm looking at
removing about a dozen studs, including a corner, to get this put back
together properly. I'm thinking that I'll build a couple of
supporting walls outside the structure to hold the roof up while I
attempt the repair. I'm going to attempt to keep the stucco intact in
all this, but I don't know if I'll be successful in that regard. I'm
on a perimeter foundation and will need to replace portions of the mud
sill and edge joist while I'm down there.

Wheee!

Tom Young

On May 5, 9:57*am, TomYoung wrote:
On May 3, 8:30*pm, RicodJour wrote:
On May 3, 1:28*pm, wrote:

And regardless, I don't see how you can remove all the studs along a
wall and then leave the exterior stucco of that wall attached to
nothing. * If I was going to attempt to salvage this without redoing
stucco, I'd at least use construction adhesive to bond the new studs
to the wire/stucco backside.

A lot of construction adhesive. *The studs most likely won't be in the
same place as the old studs, they'll probably be sistered next to an
existing stud, and the back of the stucco is unlikely to be smooth and
straight.

To the OP: *What you're attempting to do is risky. *Even if you do
things "perfectly" the stucco might still crack. *If it's in very good
condition and was reasonably thick stucco, I'd try to save it, too.
I'd have to eyeball the situation to determine if the added difficulty
in working around the existing stucco made saving the stucco
worthwhile.

Houses in parts of the country were built with clapboards directly on
the studs when most of the country was sheathing the framing. *Not
sure what part of the country you're in, but your stucco construction
might be not uncommon for your area. *Not having sheathing on the back
of the stucco actually makes sense in some ways, and can actually be
beneficial. *Letting a wall dry out to the inside as well as the
outside helped reduce decay and mold growth.

From the sound of it you're on a slab, right? *If so you can deal with
the rotted bottom plate easily enough. *You should investigate the
house construction some more to find out what is providing the racking
resistance (google it). *Normally the sheathing does the work, but let-
in braces were in vogue for a while. *If your house has neither, and
you're in an 'interesting' area subjected to hurricanes, tornadoes,
earthquakes (damn, I'm depressing myself) or the like, you may want to
look into upgrading.

You don't have to remove the entire stud, just the rotted part. *Use a
circular saw set to the correct depth as already posted, and make a
nice square cut. *Make some more in the piece to be removed and then
use a chisel, sawzall, Fein Multimaster 636, angle grinder, and
patience and remove the sections so you don't stress those mesh
nails. *Then use the angle grinder with a metal cutoff wheel. *A
diamond one is the best IMO for all around use and it makes trimming
back wayward nails a breeze. *Then you'll cut two pieces of treated 2x
- one a full length stud, and the other to fill in where you removed
the piece. *The remaining part of the existing stud secures the stucco
to the framing and the new pieces provide the support. *Glue and screw
the wood together with appropriate fasteners. *As noted liberally
applied construction adhesive will aid in fastening the stucco to the
new framing. *The building paper is in the way of the adhesive, so
it'll have to be removed where the stud repair parts go.

R

I spoke to a building inspector in my town (San Francisco Bay area)
about this construction and he said that given the age of the
construction (pre-1975 is all I know at this point) that the lack of
sheathing may have met code at the time. *The area I'm working in is
an addition to the existing house (built 1941) so I'll need to truck
up to the county seat and do the research to see if it was permitted.
(Not that it means much after all this time.)

Given the damage to the subfloor and sole plate I'm looking at
removing about a dozen studs, including a corner, to get this put back
together properly. *I'm thinking that I'll build a couple of
supporting walls outside the structure to hold the roof up while I
attempt the repair. *I'm going to attempt to keep the stucco intact in
all this, but I don't know if I'll be successful in that regard. *I'm
on a perimeter foundation and will need to replace portions of the mud
sill and edge joist while I'm down there.

Ah, so you're not on a slab. I was wondering how you were planning to
replace the sill, rim joist and bottom plate from the interior - still
am. Removing the bad sections of stud is simple compared to removing
the other stuff. Doing that without messing up the stucco is going to
be very difficult, if not impossible. How can you replace a rim joist
that's covered by stucco? You can remove the rotted section in
pieces, but you really don't want to install your rim joist and in 16"
long pieces.

Post some pictures on one of the free hosting sites and post the link
here. Let's see what you're dealing with.

R

On May 5, 7:47*am, RicodJour wrote:
On May 5, 9:57*am, TomYoung wrote:



On May 3, 8:30*pm, RicodJour wrote:
On May 3, 1:28*pm, wrote:

And regardless, I don't see how you can remove all the studs along a
wall and then leave the exterior stucco of that wall attached to
nothing. * If I was going to attempt to salvage this without redoing
stucco, I'd at least use construction adhesive to bond the new studs
to the wire/stucco backside.

A lot of construction adhesive. *The studs most likely won't be in the
same place as the old studs, they'll probably be sistered next to an
existing stud, and the back of the stucco is unlikely to be smooth and
straight.

To the OP: *What you're attempting to do is risky. *Even if you do
things "perfectly" the stucco might still crack. *If it's in very good
condition and was reasonably thick stucco, I'd try to save it, too.
I'd have to eyeball the situation to determine if the added difficulty
in working around the existing stucco made saving the stucco
worthwhile.

Houses in parts of the country were built with clapboards directly on
the studs when most of the country was sheathing the framing. *Not
sure what part of the country you're in, but your stucco construction
might be not uncommon for your area. *Not having sheathing on the back
of the stucco actually makes sense in some ways, and can actually be
beneficial. *Letting a wall dry out to the inside as well as the
outside helped reduce decay and mold growth.

From the sound of it you're on a slab, right? *If so you can deal with
the rotted bottom plate easily enough. *You should investigate the
house construction some more to find out what is providing the racking
resistance (google it). *Normally the sheathing does the work, but let-
in braces were in vogue for a while. *If your house has neither, and
you're in an 'interesting' area subjected to hurricanes, tornadoes,
earthquakes (damn, I'm depressing myself) or the like, you may want to
look into upgrading.

You don't have to remove the entire stud, just the rotted part. *Use a
circular saw set to the correct depth as already posted, and make a
nice square cut. *Make some more in the piece to be removed and then
use a chisel, sawzall, Fein Multimaster 636, angle grinder, and
patience and remove the sections so you don't stress those mesh
nails. *Then use the angle grinder with a metal cutoff wheel. *A
diamond one is the best IMO for all around use and it makes trimming
back wayward nails a breeze. *Then you'll cut two pieces of treated 2x
- one a full length stud, and the other to fill in where you removed
the piece. *The remaining part of the existing stud secures the stucco
to the framing and the new pieces provide the support. *Glue and screw
the wood together with appropriate fasteners. *As noted liberally
applied construction adhesive will aid in fastening the stucco to the
new framing. *The building paper is in the way of the adhesive, so
it'll have to be removed where the stud repair parts go.

R

I spoke to a building inspector in my town (San Francisco Bay area)
about this construction and he said that given the age of the
construction (pre-1975 is all I know at this point) that the lack of
sheathing may have met code at the time. *The area I'm working in is
an addition to the existing house (built 1941) so I'll need to truck
up to the county seat and do the research to see if it was permitted.
(Not that it means much after all this time.)

Given the damage to the subfloor and sole plate I'm looking at
removing about a dozen studs, including a corner, to get this put back
together properly. *I'm thinking that I'll build a couple of
supporting walls outside the structure to hold the roof up while I
attempt the repair. *I'm going to attempt to keep the stucco intact in
all this, but I don't know if I'll be successful in that regard. *I'm
on a perimeter foundation and will need to replace portions of the mud
sill and edge joist while I'm down there.

Ah, so you're not on a slab. *I was wondering how you were planning to
replace the sill, rim joist and bottom plate from the interior - still
am. *Removing the bad sections of stud is simple compared to removing
the other stuff. *Doing that without messing up the stucco is going to
be very difficult, if not impossible. *How can you replace a rim joist
that's covered by stucco? *You can remove the rotted section in
pieces, but you really don't want to install your rim joist and in 16"
long pieces.

Post some pictures on one of the free hosting sites and post the link
here. *Let's see what you're dealing with.

R

http://home.comcast.net/~tomyoung1/BR/Bathroom.html

Tom Young

On Tue, 5 May 2009 15:59:01 -0700 (PDT), TomYoung
wrote:

On May 5, 7:47Â*am, RicodJour wrote:
On May 5, 9:57Â*am, TomYoung wrote:



On May 3, 8:30Â*pm, RicodJour wrote:
On May 3, 1:28Â*pm, wrote:

And regardless, I don't see how you can remove all the studs along a
wall and then leave the exterior stucco of that wall attached to
nothing. Â* If I was going to attempt to salvage this without redoing
stucco, I'd at least use construction adhesive to bond the new studs
to the wire/stucco backside.

A lot of construction adhesive. Â*The studs most likely won't be in the
same place as the old studs, they'll probably be sistered next to an
existing stud, and the back of the stucco is unlikely to be smooth and
straight.

To the OP: Â*What you're attempting to do is risky. Â*Even if you do
things "perfectly" the stucco might still crack. Â*If it's in very good
condition and was reasonably thick stucco, I'd try to save it, too.
I'd have to eyeball the situation to determine if the added difficulty
in working around the existing stucco made saving the stucco
worthwhile.

Houses in parts of the country were built with clapboards directly on
the studs when most of the country was sheathing the framing. Â*Not
sure what part of the country you're in, but your stucco construction
might be not uncommon for your area. Â*Not having sheathing on the back
of the stucco actually makes sense in some ways, and can actually be
beneficial. Â*Letting a wall dry out to the inside as well as the
outside helped reduce decay and mold growth.

From the sound of it you're on a slab, right? Â*If so you can deal with
the rotted bottom plate easily enough. Â*You should investigate the
house construction some more to find out what is providing the racking
resistance (google it). Â*Normally the sheathing does the work, but let-
in braces were in vogue for a while. Â*If your house has neither, and
you're in an 'interesting' area subjected to hurricanes, tornadoes,
earthquakes (damn, I'm depressing myself) or the like, you may want to
look into upgrading.

You don't have to remove the entire stud, just the rotted part. Â*Use a
circular saw set to the correct depth as already posted, and make a
nice square cut. Â*Make some more in the piece to be removed and then
use a chisel, sawzall, Fein Multimaster 636, angle grinder, and
patience and remove the sections so you don't stress those mesh
nails. Â*Then use the angle grinder with a metal cutoff wheel. Â*A
diamond one is the best IMO for all around use and it makes trimming
back wayward nails a breeze. Â*Then you'll cut two pieces of treated 2x
- one a full length stud, and the other to fill in where you removed
the piece. Â*The remaining part of the existing stud secures the stucco
to the framing and the new pieces provide the support. Â*Glue and screw
the wood together with appropriate fasteners. Â*As noted liberally
applied construction adhesive will aid in fastening the stucco to the
new framing. Â*The building paper is in the way of the adhesive, so
it'll have to be removed where the stud repair parts go.

R

I spoke to a building inspector in my town (San Francisco Bay area)
about this construction and he said that given the age of the
construction (pre-1975 is all I know at this point) that the lack of
sheathing may have met code at the time. Â*The area I'm working in is
an addition to the existing house (built 1941) so I'll need to truck
up to the county seat and do the research to see if it was permitted.
(Not that it means much after all this time.)

Given the damage to the subfloor and sole plate I'm looking at
removing about a dozen studs, including a corner, to get this put back
together properly. Â*I'm thinking that I'll build a couple of
supporting walls outside the structure to hold the roof up while I
attempt the repair. Â*I'm going to attempt to keep the stucco intact in
all this, but I don't know if I'll be successful in that regard. Â*I'm
on a perimeter foundation and will need to replace portions of the mud
sill and edge joist while I'm down there.

Ah, so you're not on a slab. Â*I was wondering how you were planning to
replace the sill, rim joist and bottom plate from the interior - still
am. Â*Removing the bad sections of stud is simple compared to removing
the other stuff. Â*Doing that without messing up the stucco is going to
be very difficult, if not impossible. Â*How can you replace a rim joist
that's covered by stucco? Â*You can remove the rotted section in
pieces, but you really don't want to install your rim joist and in 16"
long pieces.

Post some pictures on one of the free hosting sites and post the link
here. Â*Let's see what you're dealing with.

R

http://home.comcast.net/~tomyoung1/BR/Bathroom.html

Tom Young
I'd build an inside support structure(temorary)supported from the
crawl space to the ceiling joists and cut off the bottoms of the
affected studs (about 2 feet or so) and remove them carfully as
described earlier ( by a previous poster), then replace the damaged
sill, rim joist, and bottom plate as required. The support will not
be terribly critical on a 5 - 7 foot wall - and a 3 - 4 foot repair.
When that's all solid, cut "cripples" to fit the cut-out studs, and
plate them on both sides with 3/4" plywood, glued and screwed. If you
are a "belt and suspenders" type guy, add a few extra studs
full-length between the existing studs, ripped so they are about 1/4
to 1/2 inch shallower than the existing studs so they do not interfere
with the stucco. Some panel adhesive to bond the stucco (building
paper removed) would not hurt and the studs can be set in from flush
as well, the drywall or whatever does not need to fasten to them. I'd
"block" between the original studs and the "auxilliary" studs to keet
them all from bowing. Use 2X4 on the flat for the blocking -
"toe-nailed" on place with deck screws.
I'd use screws for EVERYTHING to avoid shock damage to the stucco.

After everything is repaired, I'd consider SEALING the whole bottom
structure with a coat of latex primer and a couple coats of whatever
leftover paint you have around or can pick up from the recycling depot
before installing backing-board or whatever. Seal the subfloor the
same way, not neglecting the cut edges around holes for
drains/whatever. Use waterproof glue plywood for the sub- flooring too
if possible.

Sealing with paint will prevent water damage from any moisture that
may get through over the years (sure looks like the tub
surround/grout/calking or whatever was in poor condition, allowing
bathwater to get to the structure, doing the damage.)

What I see in the picture looks like failed tub enclosure walls
and/or leaking plumbing which caused water damage. IF you can
push an awl or knife through the wood, it has to come out. If a
knife blade or awl only penetrates a 1/2" or so, leave it alone,
Bleach and treat everything, sister onto anything that needs a new
surface to be in plane, and worry about better interior prep of
the tub surround. If you know you had termites and the wood is
mush, the rules change. If there was an issue with the stucco,
you could attach it to framing with plaster washers on the outside
with minimal repair.

--
______________________________
Keep the whole world singing . . . .
DanG (remove the sevens)




"TomYoung" wrote in message
...
On May 5, 7:47 am, RicodJour wrote:
On May 5, 9:57 am, TomYoung wrote:



On May 3, 8:30 pm, RicodJour wrote:
On May 3, 1:28 pm, wrote:

And regardless, I don't see how you can remove all the
studs along a
wall and then leave the exterior stucco of that wall
attached to
nothing. If I was going to attempt to salvage this without
redoing
stucco, I'd at least use construction adhesive to bond the
new studs
to the wire/stucco backside.

A lot of construction adhesive. The studs most likely won't
be in the
same place as the old studs, they'll probably be sistered
next to an
existing stud, and the back of the stucco is unlikely to be
smooth and
straight.

To the OP: What you're attempting to do is risky. Even if
you do
things "perfectly" the stucco might still crack. If it's in
very good
condition and was reasonably thick stucco, I'd try to save
it, too.
I'd have to eyeball the situation to determine if the added
difficulty
in working around the existing stucco made saving the stucco
worthwhile.

Houses in parts of the country were built with clapboards
directly on
the studs when most of the country was sheathing the
framing. Not
sure what part of the country you're in, but your stucco
construction
might be not uncommon for your area. Not having sheathing on
the back
of the stucco actually makes sense in some ways, and can
actually be
beneficial. Letting a wall dry out to the inside as well as
the
outside helped reduce decay and mold growth.

From the sound of it you're on a slab, right? If so you can
deal with
the rotted bottom plate easily enough. You should
investigate the
house construction some more to find out what is providing
the racking
resistance (google it). Normally the sheathing does the
work, but let-
in braces were in vogue for a while. If your house has
neither, and
you're in an 'interesting' area subjected to hurricanes,
tornadoes,
earthquakes (damn, I'm depressing myself) or the like, you
may want to
look into upgrading.

You don't have to remove the entire stud, just the rotted
part. Use a
circular saw set to the correct depth as already posted, and
make a
nice square cut. Make some more in the piece to be removed
and then
use a chisel, sawzall, Fein Multimaster 636, angle grinder,
and
patience and remove the sections so you don't stress those
mesh
nails. Then use the angle grinder with a metal cutoff wheel.
A
diamond one is the best IMO for all around use and it makes
trimming
back wayward nails a breeze. Then you'll cut two pieces of
treated 2x
- one a full length stud, and the other to fill in where you
removed
the piece. The remaining part of the existing stud secures
the stucco
to the framing and the new pieces provide the support. Glue
and screw
the wood together with appropriate fasteners. As noted
liberally
applied construction adhesive will aid in fastening the
stucco to the
new framing. The building paper is in the way of the
adhesive, so
it'll have to be removed where the stud repair parts go.

R

I spoke to a building inspector in my town (San Francisco Bay
area)
about this construction and he said that given the age of the
construction (pre-1975 is all I know at this point) that the
lack of
sheathing may have met code at the time. The area I'm working
in is
an addition to the existing house (built 1941) so I'll need to
truck
up to the county seat and do the research to see if it was
permitted.
(Not that it means much after all this time.)

Given the damage to the subfloor and sole plate I'm looking at
removing about a dozen studs, including a corner, to get this
put back
together properly. I'm thinking that I'll build a couple of
supporting walls outside the structure to hold the roof up
while I
attempt the repair. I'm going to attempt to keep the stucco
intact in
all this, but I don't know if I'll be successful in that
regard. I'm
on a perimeter foundation and will need to replace portions of
the mud
sill and edge joist while I'm down there.

Ah, so you're not on a slab. I was wondering how you were
planning to
replace the sill, rim joist and bottom plate from the interior -
still
am. Removing the bad sections of stud is simple compared to
removing
the other stuff. Doing that without messing up the stucco is
going to
be very difficult, if not impossible. How can you replace a rim
joist
that's covered by stucco? You can remove the rotted section in
pieces, but you really don't want to install your rim joist and
in 16"
long pieces.

Post some pictures on one of the free hosting sites and post the
link
here. Let's see what you're dealing with.

R

http://home.comcast.net/~tomyoung1/BR/Bathroom.html

Tom Young

replying to Joe, 123dcp wrote:
I know this is an old thread, but speaking as the owner of a house built in a
similar manner, which was almost certainly code-compliant in 1961, could I
suggest that you consider whether your responses are offensive before posting?


My home, and millions of similar homes do need some repair to be up to modern
standards for excluding water, insulation, etc., but they're not garbage.
People pay north of a million dollars for such homes every day. And when
folks buy older homes, it's generally with the knowledge that when repairs are
made there will need to be some upgrades.

Tom was looking for useful advice on how to improve an existing situation in
someone's home without ripping down sound stucco. Instead of offering
suggestions of how to repair what's behind the stucco without tearing it down
(other sources suggest that It can be done), you decided to be a smart-a$$.
Congratulations on being no help to nayone.

--
posted from
http://www.homeownershub.com/mainten...ll-371095-.htm

On Monday, May 16, 2016 at 9:44:05 PM UTC-5, 123dcp wrote:
replying to Joe, 123dcp wrote:
I know this is an old thread, but speaking as the owner of a house built in a
similar manner, which was almost certainly code-compliant in 1961, could I
suggest that you consider whether your responses are offensive before posting?


My home, and millions of similar homes do need some repair to be up to modern
standards for excluding water, insulation, etc., but they're not garbage.
People pay north of a million dollars for such homes every day. And when
folks buy older homes, it's generally with the knowledge that when repairs are
made there will need to be some upgrades.

Tom was looking for useful advice on how to improve an existing situation in
someone's home without ripping down sound stucco. Instead of offering
suggestions of how to repair what's behind the stucco without tearing it down
(other sources suggest that It can be done), you decided to be a smart-a$$.
Congratulations on being no help to nayone.
--

Unfortunately, five years ago, Joe was murdered by someone he offended. He left behind a grateful family who was tired of his smart mouth. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Murderous Monster

replying to Joe, SaneLogic wrote:
I hate comments like this. Wtf man. A guy asks a DIY question and you
literally tell him to bulldoze the house. That's so ignorant it's not even
funny. No, you don't have to bulldoze a house because there's termite damage
in a bathroom wall. Jfc.

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...ll-371095-.htm

replying to SaneLogic, Jeffcorr wrote:
Ha ha, true. People are funny. Variety, I suppose

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...ll-371095-.htm

Final Solution to termites is NO MORE WOODEN STUDS OR PLATES. Wood should be banned. Instead, use galvanized sheet metal studs that come in different gauges. Won't burn, rot or warp. Also light in weight. Tin snips can used rather than loud heavy circular saws. Small 'tech screws' are used as fasteners- no compressors/ nail guns needed.

On Thursday, June 7, 2018 at 6:44:11 PM UTC-7, Jeffcorr wrote:
replying to SaneLogic, Jeffcorr wrote:
Ha ha, true. People are funny. Variety, I suppose
--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...ll-371095-.htm

On Sun, 13 Jun 2021 09:09:24 -0700 (PDT), "Peter W."
wrote:

Final Solution to termites is NO MORE WOODEN STUDS OR PLATES. Wood should be banned. Instead, use galvanized sheet metal studs that come in different gauges. Won't burn, rot or warp. Also light in weight. Tin snips can used rather than loud heavy circular saws. Small 'tech screws' are used as fasteners- no compressors/ nail guns needed.

I can see you have never been on a job where they installed steel
studs. They cut them with a chop saw and it is a whole lot louder than
cutting wood.

In article ,
says...

Final Solution to termites is NO MORE WOODEN STUDS OR PLATES. Wood should be banned. Instead, use galvanized sheet metal studs that come in different gauges. Won't burn, rot or warp. Also light in weight. Tin snips can used rather than loud heavy circular saws. Small 'tech screws' are used as fasteners- no compressors/ nail guns
needed.

I can see you have never been on a job where they installed steel
studs. They cut them with a chop saw and it is a whole lot louder than
cutting wood.



I had a metal carport type garage built and they used the chop saw when
needed. I doubt tin snips would have cut the 'studs' or whatever they
are called in the garage. Not sure what would be louder , nail guns or
the impact drivers they used to fasten the plates together.

I don't know much about construction,but seems to me that there would
still be a lot of wood involved in homes even if metal or brick was used
wherever it could be.

"Ralph Mowery" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...

Final Solution to termites is NO MORE WOODEN STUDS OR PLATES. Wood
should be banned. Instead, use galvanized sheet metal studs that come in
different gauges. Won't burn, rot or warp. Also light in weight. Tin
snips can used rather than loud heavy circular saws. Small 'tech screws'
are used as fasteners- no compressors/ nail guns
needed.

I can see you have never been on a job where they installed steel
studs. They cut them with a chop saw and it is a whole lot louder than
cutting wood.



I had a metal carport type garage built and they used the chop saw when
needed. I doubt tin snips would have cut the 'studs' or whatever they
are called in the garage. Not sure what would be louder , nail guns or
the impact drivers they used to fasten the plates together.

I don't know much about construction,but seems to me that there would
still be a lot of wood involved in homes even if metal or brick was used
wherever it could be.

No there isnt, it can be all metal.

On Sun, 13 Jun 2021 16:23:42 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...

Final Solution to termites is NO MORE WOODEN STUDS OR PLATES. Wood should be banned. Instead, use galvanized sheet metal studs that come in different gauges. Won't burn, rot or warp. Also light in weight. Tin snips can used rather than loud heavy circular saws. Small 'tech screws' are used as fasteners- no compressors/ nail guns
needed.

I can see you have never been on a job where they installed steel
studs. They cut them with a chop saw and it is a whole lot louder than
cutting wood.



I had a metal carport type garage built and they used the chop saw when
needed. I doubt tin snips would have cut the 'studs' or whatever they
are called in the garage. Not sure what would be louder , nail guns or
the impact drivers they used to fasten the plates together.

I don't know much about construction,but seems to me that there would
still be a lot of wood involved in homes even if metal or brick was used
wherever it could be.

Steel framing is usually just used for the interior walls. The trusses
will be wood. They also put wood in the studs in door frames so they
have something to screw into.