This was in the Hartford Courant today as a sidebar to an article about wood
burning stoves. People are complaining they are being made sick by the
pollutants. Gas sure comes up as being very clean.



POLLUTION

Environmental officials have analyzed.how much soot -

particulate matter - home heating devices produce.

» One home heated by oil produces as much pollution as 39 homes using gas.

» One home heated by an EPA-certified indoor wood stove

produces as much pollution as 2,000 homes using gas.

» One home heated by an outdoor wood furnace produces as much pollution as
3,000 to

8,000 homes using gas.

Source: DEP

On Feb 16, 4:37*pm, "Ed Pawlowski" wrote:
This was in the Hartford Courant today as a sidebar to an article about wood
burning stoves. *People are complaining they are being made sick by the
pollutants. *Gas sure comes up as being very clean.

POLLUTION

Environmental officials have analyzed.how much soot -

particulate matter - home heating devices produce.

» One home heated by oil produces as much pollution as 39 homes using gas.

» One home heated by an EPA-certified indoor wood stove

produces as much pollution as 2,000 homes using gas.

» One home heated by an outdoor wood furnace produces as much pollution as
3,000 to

8,000 homes using gas.

Source: DEP

I know it's probably a matter of time but I'll keep burning wood to
heat my house until it becomes illegal...... I can see it would be a
big problem if it was done in a very crowded neighborhood. Also, the
type of wood being burned can produce varying degrees of irritants.
Steve

"Steve" wrote in message


» One home heated by an EPA-certified indoor wood stove
produces as much pollution as 2,000 homes using gas.
Source: DEP

I know it's probably a matter of time but I'll keep burning wood to
heat my house until it becomes illegal...... I can see it would be a
big problem if it was done in a very crowded neighborhood. Also, the
type of wood being burned can produce varying degrees of irritants.
Steve

************************************************** ***

It is becoming illegal in a lot of areas. I've not used mine in a few years
but may resurrect it if oil goes to $4.50 again.I stopped because the price
of wood was not as beneficial as it once was. If I can get free or cheap
wood the labor is worth it. Nice to have in case of power failure too.

Ed Pawlowski wrote:

This was in the Hartford Courant today as a sidebar to an article about wood
burning stoves. People are complaining they are being made sick by the
pollutants. Gas sure comes up as being very clean.

POLLUTION

Environmental officials have analyzed.how much soot -

particulate matter - home heating devices produce.

» One home heated by oil produces as much pollution as 39 homes using gas.

» One home heated by an EPA-certified indoor wood stove

produces as much pollution as 2,000 homes using gas.

» One home heated by an outdoor wood furnace produces as much pollution as
3,000 to

8,000 homes using gas.

Source: DEP

It's all propaganda aimed at permitting and taxing wood stoves and / or
cord wood, since the government already has it's taxes on other heating
fuels.

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...
This was in the Hartford Courant today as a sidebar to an article about
wood burning stoves. People are complaining they are being made sick by
the pollutants. Gas sure comes up as being very clean.



POLLUTION

Environmental officials have analyzed.how much soot -

particulate matter - home heating devices produce.

» One home heated by oil produces as much pollution as 39 homes using gas.

» One home heated by an EPA-certified indoor wood stove

produces as much pollution as 2,000 homes using gas.

» One home heated by an outdoor wood furnace produces as much pollution as
3,000 to

8,000 homes using gas.

Source: DEP

What's the comparison between nuclear power and gas?

On 2/16/2009 2:37 PM Ed Pawlowski spake thus:

This was in the Hartford Courant today as a sidebar to an article about wood
burning stoves. People are complaining they are being made sick by the
pollutants. Gas sure comes up as being very clean.

POLLUTION

Environmental officials have analyzed.how much soot -
particulate matter - home heating devices produce.
» One home heated by oil produces as much pollution as 39 homes using gas.
» One home heated by an EPA-certified indoor wood stove
produces as much pollution as 2,000 homes using gas.
» One home heated by an outdoor wood furnace produces as much pollution as
3,000 to 8,000 homes using gas.

Source: DEP

Reminds me of when I used to live in Flagstaff, AZ. Lots of people
thought it nice and cozy and "simple living" to burn wood in their
stoves and fireplaces. I remember cold mornings driving up Hwy. 89 and
nearly being asphyxiated from all the goddamn smoke.

Wood burning, as romantic and "back-to-the-land" as it may seem, ought
to be banned (and is being banned, slowly). We're not cavemen anymore,
needing to throw more chunks of wood on the fire to stay warm.


--
Personally, I like Vista, but I probably won't use it. I like it
because it generates considerable business for me in consulting and
upgrades. As long as there is hardware and software out there that
doesn't work, I stay in business. Incidentally, my company motto is
"If this stuff worked, you wouldn't need me".

- lifted from sci.electronics.repair

On 2/16/2009 4:01 PM RBM spake thus:

What's the comparison between nuclear power and gas?

Apples and oranges: that's the comparison.


--
Personally, I like Vista, but I probably won't use it. I like it
because it generates considerable business for me in consulting and
upgrades. As long as there is hardware and software out there that
doesn't work, I stay in business. Incidentally, my company motto is
"If this stuff worked, you wouldn't need me".

- lifted from sci.electronics.repair

David Nebenzahl wrote:

On 2/16/2009 2:37 PM Ed Pawlowski spake thus:

This was in the Hartford Courant today as a sidebar to an article about wood
burning stoves. People are complaining they are being made sick by the
pollutants. Gas sure comes up as being very clean.

POLLUTION

Environmental officials have analyzed.how much soot -
particulate matter - home heating devices produce.
» One home heated by oil produces as much pollution as 39 homes using gas.
» One home heated by an EPA-certified indoor wood stove
produces as much pollution as 2,000 homes using gas.
» One home heated by an outdoor wood furnace produces as much pollution as
3,000 to 8,000 homes using gas.

Source: DEP

Reminds me of when I used to live in Flagstaff, AZ. Lots of people
thought it nice and cozy and "simple living" to burn wood in their
stoves and fireplaces. I remember cold mornings driving up Hwy. 89 and
nearly being asphyxiated from all the goddamn smoke.

Wood burning, as romantic and "back-to-the-land" as it may seem, ought
to be banned (and is being banned, slowly). We're not cavemen anymore,
needing to throw more chunks of wood on the fire to stay warm.

Wood is renewable and carbon neutral, we should be burning more of it
for heat and less gas and oil. We certainly have the technology to
control the emissions. Of course we should also use solar heating as
much as possible so the wood is only minimally needed for cloudy days.

Pete C. wrote:

Wood is renewable and carbon neutral, we should be burning more of it
for heat and less gas and oil. We certainly have the technology to
control the emissions. Of course we should also use solar heating as
much as possible so the wood is only minimally needed for cloudy days.

Whale oil is renewable, too.

If there were just a government whale-breeding program...

On Feb 16, 4:37*pm, "Ed Pawlowski" wrote:
This was in the Hartford Courant today as a sidebar to an article about wood
burning stoves. *People are complaining they are being made sick by the
pollutants. *Gas sure comes up as being very clean.

POLLUTION

Environmental officials have analyzed.how much soot -

particulate matter - home heating devices produce.

» One home heated by oil produces as much pollution as 39 homes using gas.

» One home heated by an EPA-certified indoor wood stove

produces as much pollution as 2,000 homes using gas.

» One home heated by an outdoor wood furnace produces as much pollution as
3,000 to

8,000 homes using gas.

Source: DEP

With gas supplies from Russia cut recently many cities in Europe has
bad pollution that made people sick and slikened the streets from ash
from wood and coal. London hardly had sun until wood and coal was
banned.

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
This was in the Hartford Courant today as a sidebar to an article about wood
burning stoves. People are complaining they are being made sick by the
pollutants. Gas sure comes up as being very clean.



POLLUTION

Environmental officials have analyzed.how much soot -

particulate matter - home heating devices produce.

» One home heated by oil produces as much pollution as 39 homes using gas.

» One home heated by an EPA-certified indoor wood stove

produces as much pollution as 2,000 homes using gas.

» One home heated by an outdoor wood furnace produces as much pollution as
3,000 to

8,000 homes using gas.

Source: DEP


The new wood issue in my area is the outside hot water boilers.
According to my friend who just installed one before winter there are 3
common manufacturers. Two of them produce big box quality cheepo units
that don't have firebrick and basically the wood burns right on the
water jacket. The problem with this is that the cold jacket makes for
really poor burning. Also they regulate it using only a damper. So when
the house calls for heat the damper opens followed by lots of smoldering
and the unit emits huge quantities of acrid, stinky smoke. There are a
couple people who have the big box quality units not far from me and on
some days it looks like fog from the ocean has rolled in only we aren't
near the ocean.

My friend bought a unit that has firebrick and also a fan forced draft.
The firebrick allows for more uniform burning and the fan forced draft
quickly brings the fire up to temperature. His unit emits considerably
less smoke.

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...
This was in the Hartford Courant today as a sidebar to an article about
wood
burning stoves. People are complaining they are being made sick by the
pollutants. Gas sure comes up as being very clean.



POLLUTION

Environmental officials have analyzed.how much soot -

particulate matter - home heating devices produce.

» One home heated by oil produces as much pollution as 39 homes using gas.

» One home heated by an EPA-certified indoor wood stove

produces as much pollution as 2,000 homes using gas.

» One home heated by an outdoor wood furnace produces as much pollution as
3,000 to

8,000 homes using gas.

Source: DEP



Wood is a renewable energy source. Many renewable energy sources cause lots
of pollution during manufacturing. Perhaps we simply need to put smog
devices on our chimneys. Then we could dump the pollution into land fills
instead of the air.

Van Chocstraw wrote:
Ed Pawlowski wrote:
This was in the Hartford Courant today as a sidebar to an article
about wood burning stoves. People are complaining they are being made
sick by the pollutants. Gas sure comes up as being very clean.



POLLUTION

Environmental officials have analyzed.how much soot -

particulate matter - home heating devices produce.

» One home heated by oil produces as much pollution as 39 homes using
gas.

» One home heated by an EPA-certified indoor wood stove

produces as much pollution as 2,000 homes using gas.

» One home heated by an outdoor wood furnace produces as much
pollution as 3,000 to

8,000 homes using gas.

Source: DEP


Soot and particulate matter are not harmful to anything. Otherwise a
forest fire would kill all of mankind for hundreds of miles.



When did you retire from rocket science?

"Van Chocstraw" wrote in message
Soot and particulate matter are not harmful to anything. Otherwise a
forest fire would kill all of mankind for hundreds of miles.

Incredible logic.

On Feb 17, 1:20*pm, "Edwin Pawlowski" wrote:
"Van Chocstraw" wrote in message
Soot and particulate matter are not harmful to anything. Otherwise a
forest fire would kill all of mankind for hundreds of miles.

Incredible logic.

Yes, just because the matter from a forest fire, which is a relatively
rare event, doesn;t kill everyone for hundreds of miles doesn't mean
that constant exposure at some level won't cause disease.

Van Chocstraw wrote:


Soot and particulate matter are not harmful to anything. Otherwise a
forest fire would kill all of mankind for hundreds of miles.



You might want to review your logic..

"Ulysses" wrote in message
Wood is a renewable energy source. Many renewable energy sources cause
lots
of pollution during manufacturing. Perhaps we simply need to put smog
devices on our chimneys. Then we could dump the pollution into land fills
instead of the air.

Comes down to the payback I guess. I'm sure the pollution can be reduced
with technology and there may not yet be a big enough market to pay for it.
If the government comes into our homes and taxes the woodpile, that may
change things. I've not kept up with wood stoves, but I do know they made
improvements about 15 or so years ago and some use what is essentially a
catalytic converter.

Years ago when most homes used coal, pollution was far worse than it is
today.

George wrote:
Van Chocstraw wrote:


Soot and particulate matter are not harmful to anything. Otherwise a
forest fire would kill all of mankind for hundreds of miles.



You might want to review your logic..

Logic???? What logic?

Now, that's a good left wing socialist. Ban everything
that's not government controlled. Wood stoves, guns, talk
radio.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"David Nebenzahl" wrote in message
.com...

Reminds me of when I used to live in Flagstaff, AZ. Lots of
people
thought it nice and cozy and "simple living" to burn wood in
their
stoves and fireplaces. I remember cold mornings driving up
Hwy. 89 and
nearly being asphyxiated from all the goddamn smoke.

Wood burning, as romantic and "back-to-the-land" as it may
seem, ought
to be banned (and is being banned, slowly). We're not
cavemen anymore,
needing to throw more chunks of wood on the fire to stay
warm.

One is government loved, other one is government hated? is
that the difference?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"David Nebenzahl" wrote in message
.com...
On 2/16/2009 4:01 PM RBM spake thus:

What's the comparison between nuclear power and gas?

Apples and oranges: that's the comparison.

What kind of liberal would want people to bring home their
own energy source, and take care of themselves? Be very
careful. You are sounding like a conservative.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Pete C." wrote in message
ster.com...


Wood is renewable and carbon neutral, we should be burning
more of it
for heat and less gas and oil. We certainly have the
technology to
control the emissions. Of course we should also use solar
heating as
much as possible so the wood is only minimally needed for
cloudy days.

Ah, but most of our senators are too old to reproduce. We
have a deficit multiplying program, though. Can you burn
deficits instead?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"HeyBub" wrote in message
m...

Whale oil is renewable, too.

If there were just a government whale-breeding program...

Watch for emissions standards from EPA within a year or so.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"George" wrote in message
...
The new wood issue in my area is the outside hot water
boilers.
According to my friend who just installed one before winter
there are 3
common manufacturers. Two of them produce big box quality
cheepo units
that don't have firebrick and basically the wood burns right
on the
water jacket. The problem with this is that the cold jacket
makes for
really poor burning. Also they regulate it using only a
damper. So when
the house calls for heat the damper opens followed by lots
of smoldering
and the unit emits huge quantities of acrid, stinky smoke.
There are a
couple people who have the big box quality units not far
from me and on
some days it looks like fog from the ocean has rolled in
only we aren't
near the ocean.

My friend bought a unit that has firebrick and also a fan
forced draft.
The firebrick allows for more uniform burning and the fan
forced draft
quickly brings the fire up to temperature. His unit emits
considerably
less smoke.

Edwin, you have just proven that you are a leprauchan, and
wear green underwear and bells on your hat. Same logic.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
...

"Van Chocstraw" wrote in
message
Soot and particulate matter are not harmful to anything.
Otherwise a
forest fire would kill all of mankind for hundreds of
miles.

Incredible logic.

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...

"Ulysses" wrote in message
Wood is a renewable energy source. Many renewable energy sources cause
lots
of pollution during manufacturing. Perhaps we simply need to put smog
devices on our chimneys. Then we could dump the pollution into land
fills
instead of the air.

Comes down to the payback I guess. I'm sure the pollution can be reduced
with technology and there may not yet be a big enough market to pay for
it.
If the government comes into our homes and taxes the woodpile, that may
change things. I've not kept up with wood stoves, but I do know they made
improvements about 15 or so years ago and some use what is essentially a
catalytic converter.

Years ago when most homes used coal, pollution was far worse than it is
today.



No doubt a woodburning stove is far more effecient than a fireplace and
probably produces a lot less smoke. If my chimney is smoking a lot then the
fire needs to be poked at and the wood moved around so it doesn't smoke so
much.

My personal opinion is that we should be finding better ways to use the
renewable resources that we have. If smoke is the problem then maybe we
should blame the design and not the fuel. Someone mentioned woodfired water
heaters--one type works well and the other doesn't.

In article , "RBM"
wrote:

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...
This was in the Hartford Courant today as a sidebar to an article about
wood burning stoves. People are complaining they are being made sick by
the pollutants. Gas sure comes up as being very clean.



POLLUTION

Environmental officials have analyzed.how much soot -

particulate matter - home heating devices produce.

» One home heated by oil produces as much pollution as 39 homes using gas.

» One home heated by an EPA-certified indoor wood stove

produces as much pollution as 2,000 homes using gas.

» One home heated by an outdoor wood furnace produces as much pollution as
3,000 to

8,000 homes using gas.

Source: DEP

What's the comparison between nuclear power and gas?



I tried one of those RONCO nuclear power space heaters, and it made my
house too damn hot.

Ulysses wrote:
"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...

"Ulysses" wrote in message
Wood is a renewable energy source. Many renewable energy sources
cause lots
of pollution during manufacturing. Perhaps we simply need to put
smog devices on our chimneys. Then we could dump the pollution
into land fills instead of the air.

Comes down to the payback I guess. I'm sure the pollution can be
reduced with technology and there may not yet be a big enough market
to pay for it. If the government comes into our homes and taxes the
woodpile, that may change things. I've not kept up with wood
stoves, but I do know they made improvements about 15 or so years
ago and some use what is essentially a catalytic converter.

Years ago when most homes used coal, pollution was far worse than it
is today.



No doubt a woodburning stove is far more effecient than a fireplace
and probably produces a lot less smoke. If my chimney is smoking a
lot then the fire needs to be poked at and the wood moved around so
it doesn't smoke so much.

My personal opinion is that we should be finding better ways to use
the renewable resources that we have. If smoke is the problem then
maybe we should blame the design and not the fuel. Someone mentioned
woodfired water heaters--one type works well and the other doesn't.

The outside ones aren't even legal in Washington state.

On Feb 16, 5:37*pm, "Ed Pawlowski" wrote:
This was in the Hartford Courant today as a sidebar to an article about wood
burning stoves. *People are complaining they are being made sick by the
pollutants. *Gas sure comes up as being very clean.

POLLUTION

Environmental officials have analyzed.how much soot -

particulate matter - home heating devices produce.

» One home heated by oil produces as much pollution as 39 homes using gas.

» One home heated by an EPA-certified indoor wood stove

produces as much pollution as 2,000 homes using gas.

» One home heated by an outdoor wood furnace produces as much pollution as
3,000 to

8,000 homes using gas.

Source: DEP

The calculations are incomplete and therefore bias.

I live in a rural area and you can ofter get "tops" after the logging
is done. The tops will just lie there are rot away. If you heat with
those tops, you are releasing X amount of carbon.

If you heat with gas, you are releasing less carbon, say Y where YX.
Therefore gas looks good.

However, those tops are going to decompose my themselves anyway and
when they do, they will release Z amount of carbon, where Z=X.

If Y X - Z; then burning gas will produce MORE carbon than burning
wood because the wood's carbon is going to be released anyway through
that pesky natural decay process.

"Pat" wrote in message
Environmental officials have analyzed.how much soot -

particulate matter - home heating devices produce.

» One home heated by oil produces as much pollution as 39 homes using gas.

» One home heated by an EPA-certified indoor wood stove

produces as much pollution as 2,000 homes using gas.

» One home heated by an outdoor wood furnace produces as much pollution as
3,000 to

8,000 homes using gas.

Source: DEP

The calculations are incomplete and therefore bias.


************************************************** **********************
This was a simple synopsis in a sidebar to a newspaper article, How do you
know they are incomplete?

Your calculations are incomplete also. You say the wood would decompose
naturally over the years, but you failed to consider the replanting and thus
the more wood made available in a 10 or 20 or 50 year cycle as opposed to
letting nature take care of the forests. Not everyone uses tops. .

On Feb 23, 9:15*pm, Pat wrote:

I live in a rural area and you can ofter get "tops" after the logging
is done. *The tops will just lie there are rot away. *If you heat with
those tops, you are releasing X amount of carbon.

If you let them rot you are allowing methane to be released into the
atmosphere
from termite farts as they eat the decomposing wood. Methane is a
much worse
greenhouse gas than CO2, which is the byproduct of burning the wood.

KC

"KC" wrote in message
...
On Feb 23, 9:15 pm, Pat wrote:

I live in a rural area and you can ofter get "tops" after the logging
is done. The tops will just lie there are rot away. If you heat with
those tops, you are releasing X amount of carbon.

If you let them rot you are allowing methane to be released into the
atmosphere
from termite farts as they eat the decomposing wood. Methane is a
much worse
greenhouse gas than CO2, which is the byproduct of burning the wood.

KC

reply:

KC, I see you haven't read or listened to AlGore. If he had his way, he'd
outlaw all CO2, but in the order that his obsolete CO2 belching Gulfstream
would be the last thing outlawed. He needs to get to those $100,000
lectures, don't you know?

Steve ;-)

Smitty Two wrote:
In article , "RBM"
wrote:

"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...
This was in the Hartford Courant today as a sidebar to an article about
wood burning stoves. People are complaining they are being made sick by
the pollutants. Gas sure comes up as being very clean.



POLLUTION

Environmental officials have analyzed.how much soot -

particulate matter - home heating devices produce.

» One home heated by oil produces as much pollution as 39 homes using gas.

» One home heated by an EPA-certified indoor wood stove

produces as much pollution as 2,000 homes using gas.

» One home heated by an outdoor wood furnace produces as much pollution as
3,000 to

8,000 homes using gas.

Source: DEP
What's the comparison between nuclear power and gas?


I tried one of those RONCO nuclear power space heaters, and it made my
house too damn hot.

The Mr. Fusion reactor powered heaters are better.

TDD

Stormin Mormon wrote:
Ah, but most of our senators are too old to reproduce. We
have a deficit multiplying program, though. Can you burn
deficits instead?


Couldn't we just burn senators?

TDD