Hi,

In an earlier post, I described my kitchen project and my need for a
subpanel. I'm now ready to undertake the project. So here's my
algorithm, is there anything wrong with it.

1. Install a 70 amp breaker in the main panel.
2. By #4 wire and connect it to that breaker as it if were just
another circuit.
3. Run that wire to the subpanel where, I assume, there will only be
one self-explanatory way of connecting it. (Will it be connected in
the same way as the cable that comes from the street is connected to
the main panel.)
4. Connect circuits to the subpanel.

Many thanks in advance,

Aaron

"Aaron Fude" wrote in message
...
Hi,

In an earlier post, I described my kitchen project and my need for a
subpanel. I'm now ready to undertake the project. So here's my
algorithm, is there anything wrong with it.

1. Install a 70 amp breaker in the main panel.
2. By #4 wire and connect it to that breaker as it if were just
another circuit.
3. Run that wire to the subpanel where, I assume, there will only be
one self-explanatory way of connecting it. (Will it be connected in
the same way as the cable that comes from the street is connected to
the main panel.)
4. Connect circuits to the subpanel.

Many thanks in advance,

Aaron

The only difference is that in the main panel, there will be a bonding
jumper that attaches the neutral/ ground buss to the panel. In the sub panel
you won't use that jumper and you may have to purchase and install a
separate ground buss. The neutral conductors will go to the insulated buss,
and the ground conductors will go to the buss directly attached to the panel

Aaron Fude wrote:
Hi,

In an earlier post, I described my kitchen project and my need for a
subpanel. I'm now ready to undertake the project. So here's my
algorithm, is there anything wrong with it.

1. Install a 70 amp breaker in the main panel.
2. By #4 wire and connect it to that breaker as it if were just
another circuit.
3. Run that wire to the subpanel where, I assume, there will only be
one self-explanatory way of connecting it. (Will it be connected in
the same way as the cable that comes from the street is connected to
the main panel.)
4. Connect circuits to the subpanel.

Many thanks in advance,

Aaron

In my area sub-panel disconnects are required. Either by installing a
main breaker kit in the sub-panel OR what I did was to back feed the
sub-panel through a standard breaker (60A in my case). Much cheaper than
the main breaker kit, but it uses up 2 slots in the sub-panel.
IOW I put a 60A breaker in my main panel and ran that to a 60A breaker
in my sub-panel, leaving the main lugs empty.

Kevin

On 2008-12-21, Kevin Ricks wrote:

In my area sub-panel disconnects are required.

That seems odd--shutting off the main breaker in a subpanel doesn't
render it safe to work on, as the incoming feeder conductors are still
energized. To deenergize the panel, you have to kill the feeder itself.

OR what I did was to back feed the sub-panel through a standard
breaker (60A in my case). Much cheaper than the main breaker kit,
but it uses up 2 slots in the sub-panel.

This configuration requires an additional holddown bracket on the
backfed breaker.

Cheers, Wayne

Wayne Whitney wrote:
On 2008-12-21, Kevin Ricks wrote:

In my area sub-panel disconnects are required.

That seems odd--shutting off the main breaker in a subpanel doesn't
render it safe to work on, as the incoming feeder conductors are still
energized. To deenergize the panel, you have to kill the feeder itself.

I was told the local inspector would require the disconnects where there
are 2 columns of breakers in the panel? With one column you can turn
everything off in one sweeping hand motion...with 2 columns your all
confused in a panic emergency ..... It was just a store employee that
said that... , but it may be that the NEC would require disconnect
anyway in my situation. It's an 8 slot sub in a detached shop building.
I believe NEC requires disconnects for subs in detached buildings.
Actually, I am not sure if my shop is classified as attached or
detached? It's separated from the house by a breezeway but attached at
the roof. I treated it as detached.


OR what I did was to back feed the sub-panel through a standard
breaker (60A in my case). Much cheaper than the main breaker kit,
but it uses up 2 slots in the sub-panel.

This configuration requires an additional holddown bracket on the
backfed breaker.

Thanks I didn't know that.
Kevin




Cheers, Wayne

On Dec 21, 10:32*pm, Kevin Ricks wrote:
Wayne Whitney wrote:
On 2008-12-21, Kevin Ricks wrote:

In my area sub-panel disconnects are required.

That seems odd--shutting off the main breaker in a subpanel doesn't
render it safe to work on, as the incoming feeder conductors are still
energized. *To deenergize the panel, you have to kill the feeder itself.

I was told the local inspector would require the disconnects where there
are 2 columns of breakers in the panel? With one column you can turn
everything off in one sweeping hand motion...with 2 columns your all
confused in a panic emergency ..... It was just a store employee that
said that... , but it may be that the NEC would require disconnect
anyway in my situation. It's an 8 slot sub in a detached shop building.
I believe NEC requires disconnects for subs in detached buildings.
* Actually, I am not sure if my shop is classified as attached or
detached? It's separated from the house by a breezeway but attached at
the roof. I treated it as detached.



OR what I did was to back feed the sub-panel through a standard
breaker (60A in my case). Much cheaper than the main breaker kit,
but it uses up 2 slots in the sub-panel.

This configuration requires an additional holddown bracket on the
backfed breaker.

Thanks I didn't know that.
Kevin





Cheers, Wayne- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Hi,

This is a very valuable discussion for me, I was wondering if you
could define some of the terms that you were using, since I am still
at the point where I know hot/neutral/ground/breaker/panel/subpanel/
main breaker. What a

Disconnect -
Lug -
Main Lugs
Holddown Bracket -
Back feed -
Main breaker KIT -

Thank you in advance!

Aaron

"Jennifer Eden" wrote in message
...
On Dec 21, 10:32 pm, Kevin Ricks wrote:
Wayne Whitney wrote:
On 2008-12-21, Kevin Ricks wrote:

In my area sub-panel disconnects are required.

That seems odd--shutting off the main breaker in a subpanel doesn't
render it safe to work on, as the incoming feeder conductors are still
energized. To deenergize the panel, you have to kill the feeder itself.

I was told the local inspector would require the disconnects where there
are 2 columns of breakers in the panel? With one column you can turn
everything off in one sweeping hand motion...with 2 columns your all
confused in a panic emergency ..... It was just a store employee that
said that... , but it may be that the NEC would require disconnect
anyway in my situation. It's an 8 slot sub in a detached shop building.
I believe NEC requires disconnects for subs in detached buildings.
Actually, I am not sure if my shop is classified as attached or
detached? It's separated from the house by a breezeway but attached at
the roof. I treated it as detached.



OR what I did was to back feed the sub-panel through a standard
breaker (60A in my case). Much cheaper than the main breaker kit,
but it uses up 2 slots in the sub-panel.

This configuration requires an additional holddown bracket on the
backfed breaker.

Thanks I didn't know that.
Kevin





Cheers, Wayne- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Hi,

This is a very valuable discussion for me, I was wondering if you
could define some of the terms that you were using, since I am still
at the point where I know hot/neutral/ground/breaker/panel/subpanel/
main breaker. What a

Disconnect - switch or breaker to turn off electricity
Lug - connector in panel to attach wires
Main Lugs lugs where the wires feeding the panel are attached
Holddown Bracket - bracket that holds a main circuit breaker to the panel
Back feed - Back feed circuit breaker connecting the main panel wires to a
circuit breaker plugged into the panel, as opposed to attaching to an
installed main circuit breaker , or lugs
Main breaker KIT - some panels that come with lugs only, can be furnished
with main breaker kits. You can purchase a panel either way

Thank you in advance!

Aaron

"Kevin Ricks" wrote in message
...
Wayne Whitney wrote:
On 2008-12-21, Kevin Ricks wrote:

In my area sub-panel disconnects are required.

That seems odd--shutting off the main breaker in a subpanel doesn't
render it safe to work on, as the incoming feeder conductors are still
energized. To deenergize the panel, you have to kill the feeder itself.

I was told the local inspector would require the disconnects where there
are 2 columns of breakers in the panel? With one column you can turn
everything off in one sweeping hand motion...with 2 columns your all
confused in a panic emergency ..... It was just a store employee that said
that... , but it may be that the NEC would require disconnect anyway in my
situation. It's an 8 slot sub in a detached shop building. I believe NEC
requires disconnects for subs in detached buildings.
Actually, I am not sure if my shop is classified as attached or detached?
It's separated from the house by a breezeway but attached at the roof. I
treated it as detached.


OR what I did was to back feed the sub-panel through a standard
breaker (60A in my case). Much cheaper than the main breaker kit,
but it uses up 2 slots in the sub-panel.

This configuration requires an additional holddown bracket on the
backfed breaker.

Thanks I didn't know that.
Kevin




Cheers, Wayne

The NEC does require a disconnect in a sub panel in a detached building, but
it also allows up to 6 disconnects in the panel, which is probably where the
single column of breakers comes from