I just finished wiring in two 220V circuits to the shop -- 1 for the dust
collector (5.5A), and the other for the tablesaw (14.5A), jointer (6.5A),
and tbd.

Just for grins I put all of them onto the one circuit. So 5.5+14.5+6.5 =
26.5A. The 20A breaker did not trip. I even tried starting up the tablesaw
while the others were running.

Now in practice, I will keep my dust collector (5.5A, 1.5HP) on it's own
circuit, but apparently I could concurrently run both the tablesaw (14.5A)
and the jointer (6.5A) and possibly even a 3rd TBD on that other circuit.
How is that? The real load must be under 20A, or the 20A breaker allows
more like 28A.

I first tried the TS and Jointer, and when they did not trip the breaker
(total 21A), I added the DC. I was surprised all three did not trip the
breaker. But I guess each was running with no load, so that is surely
another reason.

Curious,

On Thu, 27 Nov 2008 01:15:01 -0600, Kevin wrote:

I just finished wiring in two 220V circuits to the shop -- 1 for the
dust collector (5.5A), and the other for the tablesaw (14.5A), jointer
(6.5A), and tbd.

Just for grins I put all of them onto the one circuit. So 5.5+14.5+6.5
= 26.5A. The 20A breaker did not trip. I even tried starting up the
tablesaw while the others were running.

Now in practice, I will keep my dust collector (5.5A, 1.5HP) on it's own
circuit, but apparently I could concurrently run both the tablesaw
(14.5A) and the jointer (6.5A) and possibly even a 3rd TBD on that other
circuit. How is that? The real load must be under 20A, or the 20A
breaker allows more like 28A.

I first tried the TS and Jointer, and when they did not trip the breaker
(total 21A), I added the DC. I was surprised all three did not trip the
breaker. But I guess each was running with no load, so that is surely
another reason.

Curious,

Kevin:

I honestly think you know the answer to this one:
The amperage rating is supposed to be the maximum current draw when
operating under normal working conditions. That means when cutting wood.

Most of the posters to this newsgroup only run one such power tools at a
time (they ain't a factory) so there is no problem with multiple power
tools on a single circuit.

Get a friend to help out. You rip cut some 8/4 rock maple on the TS and
let your friend do a 4 inch wide board face cut on the jointer (at the
same time of course.) Circuit breaker will trip. (But why would you do
this test in real life is way beyond my coffee starved brain's
comprehension.)

On Nov 27, 2:15*am, "Kevin" wrote:
I just finished wiring in two 220V circuits to the shop -- 1 for the dust
collector (5.5A), and the other for the tablesaw (14.5A), jointer (6.5A),
and tbd.

Just for grins I put all of them onto the one circuit. *So 5.5+14.5+6.5 =
26.5A. *The 20A breaker did not trip. *I even tried starting up the tablesaw
while the others were running.

Now in practice, I will keep my dust collector (5.5A, 1.5HP) on it's own
circuit, but apparently I could concurrently run both the tablesaw (14.5A)
and the jointer (6.5A) and possibly even a 3rd TBD on that other circuit.
How is that? *The real load must be under 20A, or the 20A breaker allows
more like 28A.

I first tried the TS and Jointer, and when they did not trip the breaker
(total 21A), I added the DC. *I was surprised all three did not trip the
breaker. *But I guess each was running with no load, so that is surely
another reason.

Curious,


Those ratings are for machines with a maximum work load. In other
words, a saw just spinning doesn't pull as many amps as one ripping a
big piece of wood. If you put them to work instead of just spinning
them up, your results would be different.

On Nov 27, 7:15*am, wrote:
On Nov 27, 2:15*am, "Kevin" wrote:



I just finished wiring in two 220V circuits to the shop -- 1 for the dust
collector (5.5A), and the other for the tablesaw (14.5A), jointer (6.5A),
and tbd.

Just for grins I put all of them onto the one circuit. *So 5.5+14.5+6..5 =
26.5A. *The 20A breaker did not trip. *I even tried starting up the tablesaw
while the others were running.

Now in practice, I will keep my dust collector (5.5A, 1.5HP) on it's own
circuit, but apparently I could concurrently run both the tablesaw (14.5A)
and the jointer (6.5A) and possibly even a 3rd TBD on that other circuit.

wrote:
On Nov 27, 2:15 am, "Kevin" wrote:
I just finished wiring in two 220V circuits to the shop -- 1 for the dust
collector (5.5A), and the other for the tablesaw (14.5A), jointer (6.5A),
and tbd.

Just for grins I put all of them onto the one circuit. So 5.5+14.5+6.5 =
26.5A. The 20A breaker did not trip. I even tried starting up the tablesaw
while the others were running.

Now in practice, I will keep my dust collector (5.5A, 1.5HP) on it's own
circuit, but apparently I could concurrently run both the tablesaw (14.5A)
and the jointer (6.5A) and possibly even a 3rd TBD on that other circuit.
How is that? The real load must be under 20A, or the 20A breaker allows
more like 28A.

I first tried the TS and Jointer, and when they did not trip the breaker
(total 21A), I added the DC. I was surprised all three did not trip the
breaker. But I guess each was running with no load, so that is surely
another reason.

Curious,


Those ratings are for machines with a maximum work load. In other
words, a saw just spinning doesn't pull as many amps as one ripping a
big piece of wood. If you put them to work instead of just spinning
them up, your results would be different.
Also, breakers don't trip instantly.
They can take quite a long time for
a marginal overload. BTW, for a big
overload, like a short, they trip
pretty fast.

On Nov 27, 8:06*am, Art Todesco wrote:
wrote:
On Nov 27, 2:15 am, "Kevin" wrote:
I just finished wiring in two 220V circuits to the shop -- 1 for the dust
collector (5.5A), and the other for the tablesaw (14.5A), jointer (6.5A),
and tbd.

Just for grins I put all of them onto the one circuit. *So 5.5+14.5+6.5 =
26.5A. *The 20A breaker did not trip. *I even tried starting up the tablesaw
while the others were running.

Now in practice, I will keep my dust collector (5.5A, 1.5HP) on it's own
circuit, but apparently I could concurrently run both the tablesaw (14..5A)
and the jointer (6.5A) and possibly even a 3rd TBD on that other circuit.
How is that? *The real load must be under 20A, or the 20A breaker allows
more like 28A.

I first tried the TS and Jointer, and when they did not trip the breaker
(total 21A), I added the DC. *I was surprised all three did not trip the
breaker. *But I guess each was running with no load, so that is surely
another reason.

Curious,

Those ratings are for machines with a maximum work load. * In other
words, a saw just spinning doesn't pull as many amps as one ripping a
big piece of wood. *If you put them to work instead of just spinning
them up, your results would be different.

Also, breakers don't trip instantly.
They can take quite a long time for
a marginal overload. *BTW, for a big
overload, like a short, they trip
pretty fast.

I was on the scene when a "smart" electrician (also young) said he
could find the breaker by shorting the two 220V wires.(on a
conveyor)
He kept getting these huge arcs...and after numerous tries...gave up
red-faced!

Ah, they don't make Federal Pacific Electric breakers like they used to.....

(FPE have been known to fail. They get old, and they just don't trip,
regardless of the load.)

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


wrote in message
...

Also, breakers don't trip instantly.
They can take quite a long time for
a marginal overload. BTW, for a big
overload, like a short, they trip
pretty fast.

I was on the scene when a "smart" electrician (also young) said he
could find the breaker by shorting the two 220V wires.(on a
conveyor)
He kept getting these huge arcs...and after numerous tries...gave up
red-faced!

wrote:
On Nov 27, 8:06 am, Art Todesco wrote:
wrote:
On Nov 27, 2:15 am, "Kevin" wrote:
I just finished wiring in two 220V circuits to the shop -- 1 for the dust
collector (5.5A), and the other for the tablesaw (14.5A), jointer (6.5A),
and tbd.
Just for grins I put all of them onto the one circuit. So 5.5+14.5+6.5 =
26.5A. The 20A breaker did not trip. I even tried starting up the tablesaw
while the others were running.
Now in practice, I will keep my dust collector (5.5A, 1.5HP) on it's own
circuit, but apparently I could concurrently run both the tablesaw (14.5A)
and the jointer (6.5A) and possibly even a 3rd TBD on that other circuit.
How is that? The real load must be under 20A, or the 20A breaker allows
more like 28A.
I first tried the TS and Jointer, and when they did not trip the breaker
(total 21A), I added the DC. I was surprised all three did not trip the
breaker. But I guess each was running with no load, so that is surely
another reason.
Curious,
Those ratings are for machines with a maximum work load. In other
words, a saw just spinning doesn't pull as many amps as one ripping a
big piece of wood. If you put them to work instead of just spinning
them up, your results would be different.
Also, breakers don't trip instantly.
They can take quite a long time for
a marginal overload. BTW, for a big
overload, like a short, they trip
pretty fast.

I was on the scene when a "smart" electrician (also young) said he
could find the breaker by shorting the two 220V wires.(on a
conveyor)
He kept getting these huge arcs...and after numerous tries...gave up
red-faced!

He was trying to use the JESUS method to find
the breaker. It only works if you shout "JESUS"
at the right moment. *snicker*

TDD

posted for all of us...

On Nov 27, 8:06*am, Art Todesco wrote:
wrote:
On Nov 27, 2:15 am, "Kevin" wrote:
I just finished wiring in two 220V circuits to the shop -- 1 for the dust
collector (5.5A), and the other for the tablesaw (14.5A), jointer (6..5A),
and tbd.

Just for grins I put all of them onto the one circuit. *So 5.5+14.5+6.5 =
26.5A. *The 20A breaker did not trip. *I even tried starting up the tablesaw
while the others were running.

Now in practice, I will keep my dust collector (5.5A, 1.5HP) on it's own
circuit, but apparently I could concurrently run both the tablesaw (14.5A)
and the jointer (6.5A) and possibly even a 3rd TBD on that other circuit.
How is that? *The real load must be under 20A, or the 20A breaker allows
more like 28A.

I first tried the TS and Jointer, and when they did not trip the breaker
(total 21A), I added the DC. *I was surprised all three did not trip the
breaker. *But I guess each was running with no load, so that is surely
another reason.

Curious,

Those ratings are for machines with a maximum work load. * In other
words, a saw just spinning doesn't pull as many amps as one ripping a
big piece of wood. *If you put them to work instead of just spinning
them up, your results would be different.

Also, breakers don't trip instantly.
They can take quite a long time for
a marginal overload. *BTW, for a big
overload, like a short, they trip
pretty fast.

I was on the scene when a "smart" electrician (also young) said he
could find the breaker by shorting the two 220V wires.(on a
conveyor)
He kept getting these huge arcs...and after numerous tries...gave up
red-faced!

Don't tell holler butt that because he still uses that trick to find breakers
and trip them....
--
Tekkie Don't bother to thank me, I do this as a public service.

Yeah, I know; this is mostly an academic discussion.

I did try to have the DC and jointer running, and then switched on the TS.
That still did not trip it.

Pragmatically, what I've wired is exactly as I expect -- a dedicated DC
circuit and one other for the tool solo use (TS, jointer, TBD).

Now my more pressing reality is that the 110 outlets and lighting are on
another 20A circuit. I'm contemplating installing more ceiling outlets for
about 12 shoplight fixtures (12x2x40 (maybe 32) ) or 768 watts or about 7
amps. That leaves 13A for the other 110 power tools ( 1 hp bandsaw, rated
10A, miter box, 12.5" planer, etc). I'm contemplating adding another 110
circuit for the lights.


wrote in message
...
On Nov 27, 7:15 am, wrote:
On Nov 27, 2:15 am, "Kevin" wrote:



I just finished wiring in two 220V circuits to the shop -- 1 for the
dust
collector (5.5A), and the other for the tablesaw (14.5A), jointer
(6.5A),
and tbd.

Just for grins I put all of them onto the one circuit. So 5.5+14.5+6.5 =
26.5A. The 20A breaker did not trip. I even tried starting up the
tablesaw
while the others were running.

Now in practice, I will keep my dust collector (5.5A, 1.5HP) on it's own
circuit, but apparently I could concurrently run both the tablesaw
(14.5A)
and the jointer (6.5A) and possibly even a 3rd TBD on that other
circuit.
How is that? The real load must be under 20A, or the 20A breaker allows
more like 28A.

I first tried the TS and Jointer, and when they did not trip the breaker
(total 21A), I added the DC. I was surprised all three did not trip the
breaker. But I guess each was running with no load, so that is surely
another reason.

Curious,

Those ratings are for machines with a maximum work load. In other
words, a saw just spinning doesn't pull as many amps as one ripping a
big piece of wood. If you put them to work instead of just spinning
them up, your results would be different.

Or, if you could switch them all on at the same time (starting load).

wrote:
On Nov 27, 2:15 am, "Kevin" wrote:
I just finished wiring in two 220V circuits to the shop -- 1 for the dust
collector (5.5A), and the other for the tablesaw (14.5A), jointer (6.5A),
and tbd.

Just for grins I put all of them onto the one circuit. So 5.5+14.5+6.5 =
26.5A. The 20A breaker did not trip. I even tried starting up the tablesaw
while the others were running.

Now in practice, I will keep my dust collector (5.5A, 1.5HP) on it's own
circuit, but apparently I could concurrently run both the tablesaw (14.5A)
and the jointer (6.5A) and possibly even a 3rd TBD on that other circuit.
How is that? The real load must be under 20A, or the 20A breaker allows
more like 28A.

I first tried the TS and Jointer, and when they did not trip the breaker
(total 21A), I added the DC. I was surprised all three did not trip the
breaker. But I guess each was running with no load, so that is surely
another reason.

Curious,


Those ratings are for machines with a maximum work load. In other
words, a saw just spinning doesn't pull as many amps as one ripping a
big piece of wood. If you put them to work instead of just spinning
them up, your results would be different.
Hi,
And motor starting surge current is for split second more than that.
Quite unlikelt all 3 devices will be active simutaneously. Also circuit
breaker has several different typr. One will trip instantly when
overloaded. One will have a delay to trip and one which is temperature
compensated, etc.

On Nov 28, 2:15*am, Tony Hwang wrote:
wrote:
On Nov 27, 2:15 am, "Kevin" wrote:
I just finished wiring in two 220V circuits to the shop -- 1 for the dust
collector (5.5A), and the other for the tablesaw (14.5A), jointer (6.5A),
and tbd.

Just for grins I put all of them onto the one circuit. *So 5.5+14.5+6.5 =
26.5A. *The 20A breaker did not trip. *I even tried starting up the tablesaw
while the others were running.

Now in practice, I will keep my dust collector (5.5A, 1.5HP) on it's own
circuit, but apparently I could concurrently run both the tablesaw (14..5A)
and the jointer (6.5A) and possibly even a 3rd TBD on that other circuit.
How is that? *The real load must be under 20A, or the 20A breaker allows
more like 28A.

I first tried the TS and Jointer, and when they did not trip the breaker
(total 21A), I added the DC. *I was surprised all three did not trip the
breaker. *But I guess each was running with no load, so that is surely
another reason.

Curious,

Those ratings are for machines with a maximum work load. * In other
words, a saw just spinning doesn't pull as many amps as one ripping a
big piece of wood. *If you put them to work instead of just spinning
them up, your results would be different.

Hi,
And motor starting surge current is for split second more than that.
Quite unlikelt all 3 devices will be active simutaneously. Also circuit
breaker has several different typr. One will trip instantly when
overloaded. One will have a delay to trip and one which is temperature
compensated, etc.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Exactly. Sounds like an extreme case of of multihanded/multi tasking!

If all the appliances and services in our homes were switched on at
the same instant and then continued to impose that requirement
continuously, the load on the electrical supply system would be
tremendous!!!!!!

For example there is 200 amp service into our house.

Our maximum load would be 200 x 230 = 46,000 watts. (46 kilowatts). If
continuous over 24 hours that would be 46 x 24 = 104 k.watt.hrs. of
consumption. In actual fact our average daily consumption (including
electric heating) at the moment (late November) is around 40 to 50
k.watt.hrs per day; an average of less than 2 k.watt.hrs per hour!
Sometimes even if/when our bench saw (Plugged into a 230 volt circut
work shop outlet) jams on a piece of old wood it doesn't even then
trip or blow the ancillary 20 amp fuses located between the breakered
feed and the workshop outlets.

By the same token some people do overload one circuit and then wonder
why they can't plug the coffee maker, an electric fry-pan, a toaster
and the microwave oven all into one kitchen outlet circuit; and THEN
switch them all on at the same time to make breakfast

When the breaker tends to trip (and wear out prematurely) they then
blame it on 'an electrical problem' rather than 'user error'!

The same people would not try to put an 11 person soccer team plus all
their gear into one small car. Have eight people take showers all at
once in a single home bathroom. Put four cars in a two bay garage etc.
etc.!

So it's hard to understand the lack of logical thinking that wires and
circuits and most of the things we use are normally much more lightly
loaded than the conditions designed to trip breakers (or blow fuses of
the correct size) and protect against fire etc.

Seen a couple of recent installations with 20 amp outlets (as opposed
to 15 amp) near kitchen counters. Individual outlets designated by
NMEA outlets with a 'T' configuration of one of the pin sockets. Seems
like a good idea?

In article t,
Kevin wrote:
...snipped...
Just for grins I put all of them onto the one circuit. So 5.5+14.5+6.5 =
26.5A. The 20A breaker did not trip. I even tried starting up the tablesaw
while the others were running.

...snipped...
I first tried the TS and Jointer, and when they did not trip the breaker
(total 21A), I added the DC. I was surprised all three did not trip the
breaker. But I guess each was running with no load, so that is surely
another reason.


Invite a friend over, have him run the jointer taking off 3/16" thickness
while you rip a 2" board. I'm pretty sure the braker will pop.

--
Make it as simple as possible, but no simpler.

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar. org

"Kevin" wrote in message l.net...
Yeah, I know; this is mostly an academic discussion.

I did try to have the DC and jointer running, and then switched on the TS.
That still did not trip it.

Pragmatically, what I've wired is exactly as I expect -- a dedicated DC
circuit and one other for the tool solo use (TS, jointer, TBD).

Now my more pressing reality is that the 110 outlets and lighting are on
another 20A circuit. I'm contemplating installing more ceiling outlets for
about 12 shoplight fixtures (12x2x40 (maybe 32) ) or 768 watts or about 7
amps. That leaves 13A for the other 110 power tools ( 1 hp bandsaw, rated
10A, miter box, 12.5" planer, etc). I'm contemplating adding another 110
circuit for the lights.


I would
I hate being in the dark when you trip a breaker or it
needs to be shut off, and you can still have light to work
Just put all the lights on a 15-amp breaker
You forgot the 80% rule Just because you didn't trip a breaker on your 20A
Means nothing at all
20-amp breakers can only carry 16 amps-80 percent of their rating-on a continuous basis. Continuous basis is considered to be a circuit loaded to capacity for three hours or more.
So dust collector (5.5A, 1.5HP) on it's own could have the lights added

Spud

Yeah, there's a 20A circuit now that runs the outlets , 2 garage door
openers, and 2 lights sockets inside and 2 outside. I'm going to see about
intercepting the lighting circuit and put them on their own 20A service. I
need to drop in a few ceiling outlets anyway for more fixtures, so hopefully
it will be simple enough to drop in that extra circuit. Since I put in the
two 220V circuits I have the wall about the panel opened up already.


"spud42" wrote in message
...

"Kevin" wrote in message
l.net...
Yeah, I know; this is mostly an academic discussion.

I did try to have the DC and jointer running, and then switched on the TS.
That still did not trip it.

Pragmatically, what I've wired is exactly as I expect -- a dedicated DC
circuit and one other for the tool solo use (TS, jointer, TBD).

Now my more pressing reality is that the 110 outlets and lighting are on
another 20A circuit. I'm contemplating installing more ceiling outlets
for
about 12 shoplight fixtures (12x2x40 (maybe 32) ) or 768 watts or about 7
amps. That leaves 13A for the other 110 power tools ( 1 hp bandsaw, rated
10A, miter box, 12.5" planer, etc). I'm contemplating adding another 110
circuit for the lights.


I would
I hate being in the dark when you trip a breaker or it
needs to be shut off, and you can still have light to work
Just put all the lights on a 15-amp breaker
You forgot the 80% rule Just because you didn't trip a breaker on your 20A
Means nothing at all
20-amp breakers can only carry 16 amps-80 percent of their rating-on a
continuous basis. Continuous basis is considered to be a circuit loaded to
capacity for three hours or more.
So dust collector (5.5A, 1.5HP) on it's own could have the lights added

Spud