I guess there's no NG for auto repair, so ..

I bought my Forester in Sept. 2002, and apparently drove 42K without getting
new brakes. I then drove 22K before getting new breaks, and finally another
22K, when I now need new front brakes. I live in a foothill area of Calif.,
and drive up and down at least one 5-600' hill each day. I talked to a
mechanic today and he said that brake life is usually quite good at the start.
--
Wayne Watson (Watson Adventures, Prop., Nevada City, CA)

(121.015 Deg. W, 39.262 Deg. N) GMT-8 hr std. time)
Obz Site: 39° 15' 7" N, 121° 2' 32" W, 2700 feet

Web Page: www.speckledwithstars.net/

you might want tosearch your newsserver for 'subaru'. there are many.

s

"W. eWatson" wrote in message
news
I guess there's no NG for auto repair, so ..

I bought my Forester in Sept. 2002, and apparently drove 42K without
getting new brakes. I then drove 22K before getting new breaks, and
finally another 22K, when I now need new front brakes. I live in a
foothill area of Calif., and drive up and down at least one 5-600' hill
each day. I talked to a mechanic today and he said that brake life is
usually quite good at the start.
--
Wayne Watson (Watson Adventures, Prop., Nevada City, CA)

(121.015 Deg. W, 39.262 Deg. N) GMT-8 hr std. time)
Obz Site: 39° 15' 7" N, 121° 2' 32" W, 2700 feet

Web Page: www.speckledwithstars.net/

W. eWatson wrote:
I guess there's no NG for auto repair, so ..

I bought my Forester in Sept. 2002, and apparently drove 42K without
getting new brakes. I then drove 22K before getting new breaks, and
finally another 22K, when I now need new front brakes. I live in a
foothill area of Calif., and drive up and down at least one 5-600' hill
each day. I talked to a mechanic today and he said that brake life is
usually quite good at the start.

That 5 or 600 hill didn't get any higher since you bought the car. The
replacement pads that are being installed on the car might be an
inferior grade than the originals were or the rotors might be either too
thin causing excess heat and wear or the rotors might be slightly warped
causing premature wear. Most likely its the grade of pads being
installed though.

W. eWatson wrote:
I guess there's no NG for auto repair, so ..

I bought my Forester in Sept. 2002, and apparently drove 42K without
getting new brakes. I then drove 22K before getting new breaks, and
finally another 22K, when I now need new front brakes. I live in a
foothill area of Calif., and drive up and down at least one 5-600' hill
each day. I talked to a mechanic today and he said that brake life is
usually quite good at the start.

That 5 or 600 hill didn't get any higher since you bought the car. The
replacement pads that are being installed on the car might be an
inferior grade than the originals were or the rotors might be either too
thin causing excess heat and wear or the rotors might be slightly warped
causing premature wear. Most likely its the grade of pads being
installed though.

Steve Barker DLT wrote:
you might want tosearch your newsserver for 'subaru'. there are many.

s

"W. eWatson" wrote in message
news
I guess there's no NG for auto repair, so ..

I bought my Forester in Sept. 2002, and apparently drove 42K without
getting new brakes. I then drove 22K before getting new breaks, and
finally another 22K, when I now need new front brakes. I live in a
foothill area of Calif., and drive up and down at least one 5-600' hill
each day. I talked to a mechanic today and he said that brake life is
usually quite good at the start.
--
Wayne Watson (Watson Adventures, Prop., Nevada City, CA)

(121.015 Deg. W, 39.262 Deg. N) GMT-8 hr std. time)
Obz Site: 39° 15' 7" N, 121° 2' 32" W, 2700 feet

Web Page: www.speckledwithstars.net/


On my server, the group seems pathetically small.

--
Wayne Watson (Watson Adventures, Prop., Nevada City, CA)

(121.015 Deg. W, 39.262 Deg. N) GMT-8 hr std. time)
Obz Site: 39° 15' 7" N, 121° 2' 32" W, 2700 feet

Web Page: www.speckledwithstars.net/

On Aug 20, 8:08*am, "W. eWatson" wrote:
I bought my Forester in Sept. 2002, and apparently drove 42K without getting
new brakes. I then drove 22K before getting new breaks, and finally another
22K, when I now need new front brakes. I live in a foothill area of Calif..,
and drive up and down at least one 5-600' hill each day. I talked to a
mechanic today and he said that brake life is usually quite good at the start.

So what is your question? Are you complaining about the short life of
the replacements? Replacement pads usually only last about half as
long as the originals, even with new rotors.

It's more important that your vehicle stops safely than how long your
pads last. I would rather have to replace pads and rotors every 15K
miles than have brakes that last 60K and don't stop the vehicle.

In article , "W. eWatson" wrote:
I guess there's no NG for auto repair, so ..

I bought my Forester in Sept. 2002, and apparently drove 42K without getting
new brakes. I then drove 22K before getting new breaks, and finally another
22K, when I now need new front brakes. I live in a foothill area of Calif.,
and drive up and down at least one 5-600' hill each day. I talked to a
mechanic today and he said that brake life is usually quite good at the start.

Driving *up* that hill is irrelevant. How you drive *down* it makes all the
difference: do you slow down only by stepping on the brakes? Or do you
shift the transmission to a lower gear too?

wrote:
On Aug 20, 8:08 am, "W. eWatson" wrote:
snip
So what is your question? Are you complaining about the short life of
the replacements? Replacement pads usually only last about half as
long as the originals, even with new rotors.


Not true. If he were to buy the OEM pads directly from the dealer or
bought the ceramic pads he would still get good life assuming rotors and
calipers were in good shape. I owned a brake shop for 30 years and have
done a 'few' brake jobs in my time. Most of the pads installed by repair
shops are inferior to the OEM. When you quote a price with the better
pads people look at you like your crazy. A good set of ceramic pads
alone could cost up to 90 dollars for two wheels. Then the labor to
install. I installed these ceramics in my own 2002 Forester Turbo and I
have 63000 miles on them with about 10 percent wear still left.

sounds like he's a left foot braker to me.

s


"Sanity" wrote in message
...


W. eWatson wrote:
I guess there's no NG for auto repair, so ..

I bought my Forester in Sept. 2002, and apparently drove 42K without
getting new brakes. I then drove 22K before getting new breaks, and
finally another 22K, when I now need new front brakes. I live in a
foothill area of Calif., and drive up and down at least one 5-600' hill
each day. I talked to a mechanic today and he said that brake life is
usually quite good at the start.

That 5 or 600 hill didn't get any higher since you bought the car. The
replacement pads that are being installed on the car might be an inferior
grade than the originals were or the rotors might be either too thin
causing excess heat and wear or the rotors might be slightly warped
causing premature wear. Most likely its the grade of pads being installed
though.

"W. eWatson" wrote in message
news
I guess there's no NG for auto repair, so ..

You could try rec.autos.tech.

--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

yeah, you're right. I just subscribed to all 7 subaru groups on giga, and
none of them are overly busy.

s

"W. eWatson" wrote in message
...


On my server, the group seems pathetically small.

--
Wayne Watson (Watson Adventures, Prop., Nevada City, CA)

(121.015 Deg. W, 39.262 Deg. N) GMT-8 hr std. time)
Obz Site: 39° 15' 7" N, 121° 2' 32" W, 2700 feet

Web Page: www.speckledwithstars.net/

he's already found alt.autos.subaru

it seems a fairly busy group.

s


"Don Phillipson" wrote in message
...
"W. eWatson" wrote in message
news
I guess there's no NG for auto repair, so ..

You could try rec.autos.tech.

--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

Doug Miller wrote:
In article , "W. eWatson" wrote:
I guess there's no NG for auto repair, so ..

I bought my Forester in Sept. 2002, and apparently drove 42K without getting
new brakes. I then drove 22K before getting new breaks, and finally another
22K, when I now need new front brakes. I live in a foothill area of Calif.,
and drive up and down at least one 5-600' hill each day. I talked to a
mechanic today and he said that brake life is usually quite good at the start.

Driving *up* that hill is irrelevant. How you drive *down* it makes all the
difference: do you slow down only by stepping on the brakes? Or do you
shift the transmission to a lower gear too?


He drove that same hill with the original pads so that doesn't enter the
picture.

W. eWatson wrote:
I guess there's no NG for auto repair, so ..

I bought my Forester in Sept. 2002, and apparently drove 42K without
getting new brakes. I then drove 22K before getting new breaks, and
finally another 22K, when I now need new front brakes. I live in a
foothill area of Calif., and drive up and down at least one 5-600' hill
each day. I talked to a mechanic today and he said that brake life is
usually quite good at the start.
Hi,
Using same OEM pads? Maybe caliper is sticking? On my '98 Homda CRV I
logged 150K miles B4 I needed a brake job. At my dealer I had discs
drums turned, flushed system, put in new pads/linings. Since almost 70K
miles and nothing wrong with brakes. I do mostly freeway driving.

In article , Sanity wrote:


Doug Miller wrote:
In article , "W. eWatson"
wrote:
I guess there's no NG for auto repair, so ..

I bought my Forester in Sept. 2002, and apparently drove 42K without getting

new brakes. I then drove 22K before getting new breaks, and finally another
22K, when I now need new front brakes. I live in a foothill area of Calif.,
and drive up and down at least one 5-600' hill each day. I talked to a
mechanic today and he said that brake life is usually quite good at the
start.

Driving *up* that hill is irrelevant. How you drive *down* it makes all the
difference: do you slow down only by stepping on the brakes? Or do you
shift the transmission to a lower gear too?


He drove that same hill with the original pads so that doesn't enter the
picture.

Sure it does -- he didn't get the life out of the original pads that he should
have, either. The shorter life of the replacements is no mystery at all;
they're usually lower quality than the original equipment. My point is that
his pad life is way too short, period -- probably because he's riding the
brakes all the way down that hill instead of downshifting like he should.

Fix the driving habits that are shortening the pad life, and the difference
between the originals and the replacements will cease to be significant.

On Wed, 20 Aug 2008 10:53:31 -0400, "Don Phillipson"
wrote Re Auto Brake Wear for 2003 Forester
Subaru:

"W. eWatson" wrote in message
news
I guess there's no NG for auto repair, so ..

You could try rec.autos.tech.

Or alt.autos.subaru

watch for bad rubber brake lines, the interior of the hoses detoriate,
and act like check valves, the brakes never go completely off.........

massive fast pad wear........

Do you shift down on the 5-600' hill or just leave it in drive or high gear
if a manual tranny? Shifting down to a lower gear will go a long way in
extending the life of your brake pads.

Don

"W. eWatson" wrote in message
news
I guess there's no NG for auto repair, so ..

I bought my Forester in Sept. 2002, and apparently drove 42K without
getting new brakes. I then drove 22K before getting new breaks, and
finally another 22K, when I now need new front brakes. I live in a
foothill area of Calif., and drive up and down at least one 5-600' hill
each day. I talked to a mechanic today and he said that brake life is
usually quite good at the start.
--
Wayne Watson (Watson Adventures, Prop., Nevada City, CA)

(121.015 Deg. W, 39.262 Deg. N) GMT-8 hr std. time)
Obz Site: 39° 15' 7" N, 121° 2' 32" W, 2700 feet

Web Page: www.speckledwithstars.net/

On Aug 21, 3:37*am, "RVer Don" wrote:
Do you shift down on the 5-600' hill or just leave it in drive or high gear
if a manual tranny? *Shifting down to a lower gear will go a long way in
extending the life of your brake pads.

Don

"W. eWatson" wrote in message

news


I guess there's no NG for auto repair, so ..

I bought my Forester in Sept. 2002, and apparently drove 42K without
getting new brakes. I then drove 22K before getting new breaks, and
finally another 22K, when I now need new front brakes. I live in a
foothill area of Calif., and drive up and down at least one 5-600' hill
each day. I talked to a mechanic today and he said that brake life is
usually quite good at the start.
--
* * * * * *Wayne Watson (Watson Adventures, Prop., Nevada City, CA)

* * * * * * *(121.015 Deg. W, 39.262 Deg. N) GMT-8 hr std.. time)
* * * * * * * Obz Site: *39° 15' 7" N, 121° 2' 32" W, 2700 feet

* * * * * * * * * * Web Page: www.speckledwithstars.net/- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Could be driving habits!

Pretty hilly here yet we get 50,000 plus miles on brakes on medium
loaded pickups. And we buy good quality replacements.

Big hill coming down into this community, supposedly at 30 mph. It is
preceded by a 60 kilometre (40 mph) approach; so vehicle come sailing
up over the top of the hill and then put their brakes on, sometimes
brake lights all the way down the hill!
Since we have one 5 and one 6 speed Nissan manual gear vehicles we are
usually in 3rd down the hill, even 2nd, if traffic is slow or turning
on/off. Only using the brakes if necessary.

We plan to do brakes on one of the vehicle this weekend, including new
front rotors. Looks like due to little use while away over the winter
the caliper pins may have partially stuck and caused rotor warping?

Daughter has a 2001 automatic transmission Subaru (Forester SW I
think) and has spent a 'lot' of money on brakes. Although her previous
vehicles were all automatics. Maybe Subarus, especially in hilly
country, are 'hard on brakes'? This vehicle with its all wheel drive
system is also fairly heavy, which is also a factor.

By same token a neighbour whose family persistently drives automatic
Chev pickups, but only uses them privately and to get to and from work
daily, always seems to be putting on brakes and even front end parts!

Of all the vehicles this family has had, 4 cylinder Toyota cars,
followed by Toyota pickups, then by Nissan pickups a) Manufactured in
Japan and then b) Followed by manufactured in the USA, have had best
(lowest cost/frequency) of maintenance.

And weather and road conditions, including road salting , proximity to
the ocean and length of winters here are fairly severe. Corrosion is a
big factor.

terry wrote:
On Aug 21, 3:37 am, "RVer Don" wrote:
Do you shift down on the 5-600' hill or just leave it in drive or high gear
if a manual tranny? Shifting down to a lower gear will go a long way in
extending the life of your brake pads.

Don

"W. eWatson" wrote in message

news


I guess there's no NG for auto repair, so ..
I bought my Forester in Sept. 2002, and apparently drove 42K without
getting new brakes. I then drove 22K before getting new breaks, and
finally another 22K, when I now need new front brakes. I live in a
foothill area of Calif., and drive up and down at least one 5-600' hill
each day. I talked to a mechanic today and he said that brake life is
usually quite good at the start.
--
Wayne Watson (Watson Adventures, Prop., Nevada City, CA)
(121.015 Deg. W, 39.262 Deg. N) GMT-8 hr std.. time)
Obz Site: 39° 15' 7" N, 121° 2' 32" W, 2700 feet
Web Page: www.speckledwithstars.net/- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Could be driving habits!

Pretty hilly here yet we get 50,000 plus miles on brakes on medium
loaded pickups. And we buy good quality replacements.

Big hill coming down into this community, supposedly at 30 mph. It is
preceded by a 60 kilometre (40 mph) approach; so vehicle come sailing
up over the top of the hill and then put their brakes on, sometimes
brake lights all the way down the hill!
Since we have one 5 and one 6 speed Nissan manual gear vehicles we are
usually in 3rd down the hill, even 2nd, if traffic is slow or turning
on/off. Only using the brakes if necessary.

We plan to do brakes on one of the vehicle this weekend, including new
front rotors. Looks like due to little use while away over the winter
the caliper pins may have partially stuck and caused rotor warping?

Daughter has a 2001 automatic transmission Subaru (Forester SW I
think) and has spent a 'lot' of money on brakes. Although her previous
vehicles were all automatics. Maybe Subarus, especially in hilly
country, are 'hard on brakes'? This vehicle with its all wheel drive
system is also fairly heavy, which is also a factor.

By same token a neighbour whose family persistently drives automatic
Chev pickups, but only uses them privately and to get to and from work
daily, always seems to be putting on brakes and even front end parts!

Of all the vehicles this family has had, 4 cylinder Toyota cars,
followed by Toyota pickups, then by Nissan pickups a) Manufactured in
Japan and then b) Followed by manufactured in the USA, have had best
(lowest cost/frequency) of maintenance.

And weather and road conditions, including road salting , proximity to
the ocean and length of winters here are fairly severe. Corrosion is a
big factor.

Everyone seems to be forgetting that the hill was there when he first
bought this vehicle so his terrain or driving habits did not change. The
only thing that changed were the front pads. That's the variable. As I
said before, if he bought OEM pads from Subaru or the new ceramic pads
he would have gotten the same or better mileage than he did on his
original pads.
The way the thread is going, someone is going to ask the OP is he
changed his shoes to a heavier sole or heel.

We all understand the hill hasn't changed, AND only the pads have
changed..... THAT doesn't get rid of the fact that EVEN with the OEM pads
he only got about half of what he should have... The driving habits need to
be checked.


I still say he's a left foot braker. I'll bet the pad is wore clean off the
left side of his brake pedal. As a career ASE mechanic, i've seen PLENTY of
brake pedal pads worn off on the left side and they'll stand there and look
you in the face and tell you they don't use their left foot on the brake.
And i can assure you, if they're using the left foot on the brake, THEN
they're also riding the brake.


s


"Sanity" wrote in message
news


terry wrote:
On Aug 21, 3:37 am, "RVer Don" wrote:
Do you shift down on the 5-600' hill or just leave it in drive or high
gear
if a manual tranny? Shifting down to a lower gear will go a long way in
extending the life of your brake pads.

Don

"W. eWatson" wrote in message

news


I guess there's no NG for auto repair, so ..
I bought my Forester in Sept. 2002, and apparently drove 42K without
getting new brakes. I then drove 22K before getting new breaks, and
finally another 22K, when I now need new front brakes. I live in a
foothill area of Calif., and drive up and down at least one 5-600' hill
each day. I talked to a mechanic today and he said that brake life is
usually quite good at the start.
--
Wayne Watson (Watson Adventures, Prop., Nevada City, CA)
(121.015 Deg. W, 39.262 Deg. N) GMT-8 hr std.. time)
Obz Site: 39° 15' 7" N, 121° 2' 32" W, 2700 feet
Web Page: www.speckledwithstars.net/- Hide quoted
text -
- Show quoted text -

Could be driving habits!

Pretty hilly here yet we get 50,000 plus miles on brakes on medium
loaded pickups. And we buy good quality replacements.

Big hill coming down into this community, supposedly at 30 mph. It is
preceded by a 60 kilometre (40 mph) approach; so vehicle come sailing
up over the top of the hill and then put their brakes on, sometimes
brake lights all the way down the hill!
Since we have one 5 and one 6 speed Nissan manual gear vehicles we are
usually in 3rd down the hill, even 2nd, if traffic is slow or turning
on/off. Only using the brakes if necessary.

We plan to do brakes on one of the vehicle this weekend, including new
front rotors. Looks like due to little use while away over the winter
the caliper pins may have partially stuck and caused rotor warping?

Daughter has a 2001 automatic transmission Subaru (Forester SW I
think) and has spent a 'lot' of money on brakes. Although her previous
vehicles were all automatics. Maybe Subarus, especially in hilly
country, are 'hard on brakes'? This vehicle with its all wheel drive
system is also fairly heavy, which is also a factor.

By same token a neighbour whose family persistently drives automatic
Chev pickups, but only uses them privately and to get to and from work
daily, always seems to be putting on brakes and even front end parts!

Of all the vehicles this family has had, 4 cylinder Toyota cars,
followed by Toyota pickups, then by Nissan pickups a) Manufactured in
Japan and then b) Followed by manufactured in the USA, have had best
(lowest cost/frequency) of maintenance.

And weather and road conditions, including road salting , proximity to
the ocean and length of winters here are fairly severe. Corrosion is a
big factor.

Everyone seems to be forgetting that the hill was there when he first
bought this vehicle so his terrain or driving habits did not change. The
only thing that changed were the front pads. That's the variable. As I
said before, if he bought OEM pads from Subaru or the new ceramic pads he
would have gotten the same or better mileage than he did on his original
pads.
The way the thread is going, someone is going to ask the OP is he changed
his shoes to a heavier sole or heel.

Doug Miller wrote:
In article , "W. eWatson" wrote:
I guess there's no NG for auto repair, so ..

I bought my Forester in Sept. 2002, and apparently drove 42K without getting
new brakes. I then drove 22K before getting new breaks, and finally another
22K, when I now need new front brakes. I live in a foothill area of Calif.,
and drive up and down at least one 5-600' hill each day. I talked to a
mechanic today and he said that brake life is usually quite good at the start.

Driving *up* that hill is irrelevant. How you drive *down* it makes all the
difference: do you slow down only by stepping on the brakes? Or do you
shift the transmission to a lower gear too?
Yes, if you fall off a cliff, it doesn't hurt until you hit the ground.
Automatic.

--
Wayne Watson (Watson Adventures, Prop., Nevada City, CA)

(121.015 Deg. W, 39.262 Deg. N) GMT-8 hr std. time)
Obz Site: 39° 15' 7" N, 121° 2' 32" W, 2700 feet

Web Page: www.speckledwithstars.net/

Doug Miller wrote:
In article , Sanity wrote:

Doug Miller wrote:
In article , "W. eWatson"
wrote:
I guess there's no NG for auto repair, so ..

I bought my Forester in Sept. 2002, and apparently drove 42K without getting
new brakes. I then drove 22K before getting new breaks, and finally another
22K, when I now need new front brakes. I live in a foothill area of Calif.,
and drive up and down at least one 5-600' hill each day. I talked to a
mechanic today and he said that brake life is usually quite good at the
start.
Driving *up* that hill is irrelevant. How you drive *down* it makes all the
difference: do you slow down only by stepping on the brakes? Or do you
shift the transmission to a lower gear too?

He drove that same hill with the original pads so that doesn't enter the
picture.

Sure it does -- he didn't get the life out of the original pads that he should
have, either. The shorter life of the replacements is no mystery at all;
they're usually lower quality than the original equipment. My point is that
his pad life is way too short, period -- probably because he's riding the
brakes all the way down that hill instead of downshifting like he should.

Fix the driving habits that are shortening the pad life, and the difference
between the originals and the replacements will cease to be significant.
Automatic. Doesn't down shifting create wear on the transmission? It's not
the only hill around here. I'd probably wear out my hand down shifting.

--
Wayne Watson (Watson Adventures, Prop., Nevada City, CA)

(121.015 Deg. W, 39.262 Deg. N) GMT-8 hr std. time)
Obz Site: 39° 15' 7" N, 121° 2' 32" W, 2700 feet

Web Page: www.speckledwithstars.net/

Doug Miller wrote:
In article , Sanity wrote:

Doug Miller wrote:
In article , "W. eWatson"
wrote:
I guess there's no NG for auto repair, so ..

I bought my Forester in Sept. 2002, and apparently drove 42K without getting
new brakes. I then drove 22K before getting new breaks, and finally another
22K, when I now need new front brakes. I live in a foothill area of Calif.,
and drive up and down at least one 5-600' hill each day. I talked to a
mechanic today and he said that brake life is usually quite good at the
start.
Driving *up* that hill is irrelevant. How you drive *down* it makes all the
difference: do you slow down only by stepping on the brakes? Or do you
shift the transmission to a lower gear too?

He drove that same hill with the original pads so that doesn't enter the
picture.

Sure it does -- he didn't get the life out of the original pads that he should
have, either. The shorter life of the replacements is no mystery at all;
they're usually lower quality than the original equipment. My point is that
his pad life is way too short, period -- probably because he's riding the
brakes all the way down that hill instead of downshifting like he should.

Fix the driving habits that are shortening the pad life, and the difference
between the originals and the replacements will cease to be significant.
Automatic. Doesn't down shifting create wear on the transmission? It's not
the only hill around here. I'd probably wear out my hand down shifting.

--
Wayne Watson (Watson Adventures, Prop., Nevada City, CA)

(121.015 Deg. W, 39.262 Deg. N) GMT-8 hr std. time)
Obz Site: 39° 15' 7" N, 121° 2' 32" W, 2700 feet

Web Page: www.speckledwithstars.net/

Sanity wrote:


wrote:
On Aug 20, 8:08 am, "W. eWatson" wrote:
snip
So what is your question? Are you complaining about the short life of
the replacements? Replacement pads usually only last about half as
long as the originals, even with new rotors.


Not true. If he were to buy the OEM pads directly from the dealer or
bought the ceramic pads he would still get good life assuming rotors and
calipers were in good shape. I owned a brake shop for 30 years and have
done a 'few' brake jobs in my time. Most of the pads installed by repair
shops are inferior to the OEM. When you quote a price with the better
pads people look at you like your crazy. A good set of ceramic pads
alone could cost up to 90 dollars for two wheels. Then the labor to
install. I installed these ceramics in my own 2002 Forester Turbo and I
have 63000 miles on them with about 10 percent wear still left.
I suspect you are correct. Even though my dealer is 30 miles from here, I
think I may let them do it again. However, I think the local mechanic I now
use is pretty good. BTW, it's down hill to the dealer. :-)

--
Wayne Watson (Watson Adventures, Prop., Nevada City, CA)

(121.015 Deg. W, 39.262 Deg. N) GMT-8 hr std. time)
Obz Site: 39° 15' 7" N, 121° 2' 32" W, 2700 feet

Web Page: www.speckledwithstars.net/

Sanity wrote:


terry wrote:
On Aug 21, 3:37 am, "RVer Don" wrote:
Do you shift down on the 5-600' hill or just leave it in drive or
high gear
if a manual tranny? Shifting down to a lower gear will go a long way in
extending the life of your brake pads.

Don

"W. eWatson" wrote in message

news


I guess there's no NG for auto repair, so ..
I bought my Forester in Sept. 2002, and apparently drove 42K without
getting new brakes. I then drove 22K before getting new breaks, and
finally another 22K, when I now need new front brakes. I live in a
foothill area of Calif., and drive up and down at least one 5-600' hill
each day. I talked to a mechanic today and he said that brake life is
usually quite good at the start.
--
Wayne Watson (Watson Adventures, Prop., Nevada City, CA)
(121.015 Deg. W, 39.262 Deg. N) GMT-8 hr std.. time)
Obz Site: 39° 15' 7" N, 121° 2' 32" W, 2700 feet
Web Page: www.speckledwithstars.net/- Hide
quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Could be driving habits!

Pretty hilly here yet we get 50,000 plus miles on brakes on medium
loaded pickups. And we buy good quality replacements.

Big hill coming down into this community, supposedly at 30 mph. It is
preceded by a 60 kilometre (40 mph) approach; so vehicle come sailing
up over the top of the hill and then put their brakes on, sometimes
brake lights all the way down the hill!
Since we have one 5 and one 6 speed Nissan manual gear vehicles we are
usually in 3rd down the hill, even 2nd, if traffic is slow or turning
on/off. Only using the brakes if necessary.

We plan to do brakes on one of the vehicle this weekend, including new
front rotors. Looks like due to little use while away over the winter
the caliper pins may have partially stuck and caused rotor warping?

Daughter has a 2001 automatic transmission Subaru (Forester SW I
think) and has spent a 'lot' of money on brakes. Although her previous
vehicles were all automatics. Maybe Subarus, especially in hilly
country, are 'hard on brakes'? This vehicle with its all wheel drive
system is also fairly heavy, which is also a factor.

By same token a neighbour whose family persistently drives automatic
Chev pickups, but only uses them privately and to get to and from work
daily, always seems to be putting on brakes and even front end parts!

Of all the vehicles this family has had, 4 cylinder Toyota cars,
followed by Toyota pickups, then by Nissan pickups a) Manufactured in
Japan and then b) Followed by manufactured in the USA, have had best
(lowest cost/frequency) of maintenance.

And weather and road conditions, including road salting , proximity to
the ocean and length of winters here are fairly severe. Corrosion is a
big factor.

Everyone seems to be forgetting that the hill was there when he first
bought this vehicle so his terrain or driving habits did not change. The
only thing that changed were the front pads. That's the variable. As I
said before, if he bought OEM pads from Subaru or the new ceramic pads
he would have gotten the same or better mileage than he did on his
original pads.
The way the thread is going, someone is going to ask the OP is he
changed his shoes to a heavier sole or heel.
It appears that I can ask my local mechanic for ceramic pads.

Actually, I do need new shoes on my feet, and I do go up and down hills on
my property almost every day*. But let's not go there. :-)

* I even return home almost every night.

--
Wayne Watson (Watson Adventures, Prop., Nevada City, CA)

(121.015 Deg. W, 39.262 Deg. N) GMT-8 hr std. time)
Obz Site: 39° 15' 7" N, 121° 2' 32" W, 2700 feet

Web Page: www.speckledwithstars.net/

Steve Barker DLT wrote:
We all understand the hill hasn't changed, AND only the pads have
changed..... THAT doesn't get rid of the fact that EVEN with the OEM pads
he only got about half of what he should have... The driving habits need to
be checked.


I still say he's a left foot braker. I'll bet the pad is wore clean off the
left side of his brake pedal. As a career ASE mechanic, i've seen PLENTY of
brake pedal pads worn off on the left side and they'll stand there and look
you in the face and tell you they don't use their left foot on the brake.
And i can assure you, if they're using the left foot on the brake, THEN
they're also riding the brake.

Sorry. It's my right foot.

--
Wayne Watson (Watson Adventures, Prop., Nevada City, CA)

(121.015 Deg. W, 39.262 Deg. N) GMT-8 hr std. time)
Obz Site: 39° 15' 7" N, 121° 2' 32" W, 2700 feet

Web Page: www.speckledwithstars.net/

In article , "W. eWatson" wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:
In article , Sanity
wrote:

Doug Miller wrote:
In article , "W. eWatson"
wrote:
I guess there's no NG for auto repair, so ..

I bought my Forester in Sept. 2002, and apparently drove 42K without
getting
new brakes. I then drove 22K before getting new breaks, and finally
another
22K, when I now need new front brakes. I live in a foothill area of
Calif.,
and drive up and down at least one 5-600' hill each day. I talked to a
mechanic today and he said that brake life is usually quite good at the
start.
Driving *up* that hill is irrelevant. How you drive *down* it makes all the

difference: do you slow down only by stepping on the brakes? Or do you
shift the transmission to a lower gear too?

He drove that same hill with the original pads so that doesn't enter the
picture.

Sure it does -- he didn't get the life out of the original pads that he
should
have, either. The shorter life of the replacements is no mystery at all;
they're usually lower quality than the original equipment. My point is that
his pad life is way too short, period -- probably because he's riding the
brakes all the way down that hill instead of downshifting like he should.

Fix the driving habits that are shortening the pad life, and the difference
between the originals and the replacements will cease to be significant.
Automatic. Doesn't down shifting create wear on the transmission? It's not
the only hill around here. I'd probably wear out my hand down shifting.

So what if it's automatic; you still downshift on long and/or steep
downgrades to save the brakes. The wear on the transmission is negligible,
and, in any event, safety is the prime concern here.

Good rule of thumb: if the hill is so long, or so steep, that you can't stay
under the posted speed limit (or posted advisory speeds for curves), plus
about 5mph, without using the brakes, you should downshift. Failing to do so
can result in complete brake failure.

In article , "W. eWatson" wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:
In article , "W. eWatson"
wrote:
I guess there's no NG for auto repair, so ..

I bought my Forester in Sept. 2002, and apparently drove 42K without getting

new brakes. I then drove 22K before getting new breaks, and finally another
22K, when I now need new front brakes. I live in a foothill area of Calif.,
and drive up and down at least one 5-600' hill each day. I talked to a
mechanic today and he said that brake life is usually quite good at the
start.

Driving *up* that hill is irrelevant. How you drive *down* it makes all the
difference: do you slow down only by stepping on the brakes? Or do you
shift the transmission to a lower gear too?
Yes, if you fall off a cliff, it doesn't hurt until you hit the ground.
Automatic.

You didn't answer my question: do you slow down only by stepping on the
brakes? Or do you shift the transmission to a lower gear too?

W. eWatson wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:
....
Fix the driving habits that are shortening the pad life, and the
difference between the originals and the replacements will cease to be
significant.
Automatic. Doesn't down shifting create wear on the transmission? It's
not the only hill around here. I'd probably wear out my hand down shifting.

Some, sure, but not a concern of noticeably shortening transmission life.

As others noted, however, the difference between recent performance and
original would appear to be mostly related to difference between the OEM
and replacement pads rather than driving habits.

Over the length of a 600-ft hill unless it is very steep indeed (which,
of course, it _could_ be, particularly if it's inside a development or a
private drive as opposed to maintained public road) I'd not expect to be
able to attribute that much difference in wear to simply a tendency to
not downshift. Of course, it would be a reasonable practice as noted
elsewhere (altho the limitations outlined in at least one response are
far in excess of reason on the side of reality, however, imo).

In particular, of course, if one has an automatic that has an overdrive
or similar "mileage" gear, simply shifting down to the fixed gearing
ratio below it will cause engine braking that wouldn't get otherwise.

--

Steve Barker DLT wrote:
We all understand the hill hasn't changed, AND only the pads have
changed..... THAT doesn't get rid of the fact that EVEN with the OEM pads
he only got about half of what he should have... The driving habits need to
be checked.


I still say he's a left foot braker. I'll bet the pad is wore clean off the
left side of his brake pedal. As a career ASE mechanic, i've seen PLENTY of
brake pedal pads worn off on the left side and they'll stand there and look
you in the face and tell you they don't use their left foot on the brake.
And i can assure you, if they're using the left foot on the brake, THEN
they're also riding the brake.


s


No where did he say he installed OEM brake pads. From my recollection he
said he had his pads replaced.
I respect your ASE certification but I also owned a brake and front end
shop for 38 years. I have enough brake jobs to give me a clue as to what
is happening.
Just using common sense, if everything is the same (the hill) and the
only variable is different pads, it must have been the pads that are
causing the low mileage, not the hill, not his left foot.

In article , Sanity wrote:
Just using common sense, if everything is the same (the hill) and the
only variable is different pads, it must have been the pads that are
causing the low mileage, not the hill, not his left foot.

So what caused the abnormally short life of the original equipment?

Doug Miller wrote:
In article , Sanity wrote:
Just using common sense, if everything is the same (the hill) and the
only variable is different pads, it must have been the pads that are
causing the low mileage, not the hill, not his left foot.

So what caused the abnormally short life of the original equipment?

The original pads gave him good mileage. It was the replacement pads
that gave him low mileage.

In article , Sanity wrote:


Doug Miller wrote:
In article , Sanity wrote:
Just using common sense, if everything is the same (the hill) and the
only variable is different pads, it must have been the pads that are
causing the low mileage, not the hill, not his left foot.

So what caused the abnormally short life of the original equipment?

The original pads gave him good mileage. It was the replacement pads
that gave him low mileage.

42K miles on the original pads isn't "good mileage". It's poor.

Doug Miller wrote:
In article , Sanity wrote:

Doug Miller wrote:
In article , Sanity wrote:
Just using common sense, if everything is the same (the hill) and the
only variable is different pads, it must have been the pads that are
causing the low mileage, not the hill, not his left foot.
So what caused the abnormally short life of the original equipment?
The original pads gave him good mileage. It was the replacement pads
that gave him low mileage.

42K miles on the original pads isn't "good mileage". It's poor.


42K for front pads on an all wheel drive is not pure but that wasn't the
question. The question was why did he get 42k on the first pads and 23K
on the replacement pads. It has nothing to do with the hill, his foot,
his shoes or his religion. Assuming his rotors and calipers were good
when he had the front pads replaced the only variable was the pads. The
hill was the same, the driver the same and the car the same. So what was
different from the 42K and the 23K? PADS.

Sanity wrote:


42K for front pads on an all wheel drive is not pure but that wasn't
the question. The question was why did he get 42k on the first pads
and 23K on the replacement pads. It has nothing to do with the hill,
his foot, his shoes or his religion. Assuming his rotors and
calipers were good when he had the front pads replaced the only
variable was the pads. The hill was the same, the driver the same and
the car the same. So what was different from the 42K and the 23K? PADS.

I think he picked up some stones that scratched the rotors at about 35,000
miles. These scratches wore out the existing pads in but a few thousand more
miles.

New pads were, in turn, worn out prematurely by the less-than-pristine
rotors. This continued with the second set of replacement pads.

HeyBub wrote:
Sanity wrote:

42K for front pads on an all wheel drive is not pure but that wasn't
the question. The question was why did he get 42k on the first pads
and 23K on the replacement pads. It has nothing to do with the hill,
his foot, his shoes or his religion. Assuming his rotors and
calipers were good when he had the front pads replaced the only
variable was the pads. The hill was the same, the driver the same and
the car the same. So what was different from the 42K and the 23K? PADS.

I think he picked up some stones that scratched the rotors at about 35,000
miles. These scratches wore out the existing pads in but a few thousand more
miles.

New pads were, in turn, worn out prematurely by the less-than-pristine
rotors. This continued with the second set of replacement pads.



You have a good imagination. Stones at 35K?. Notice that I said
'assuming his rotors and calipers were good'
First of all, the early 2000-2004 Foresters were known to have brake
problems. In comparison, the fact that he got 42K on the first set he
should consider himself lucky.

And _I_ never said he used replacement OEM pads. I was referring to the
ones he mentioned that came with the car.

s


"Sanity" wrote in message
...



No where did he say he installed OEM brake pads. From my recollection he
said he had his pads replaced.
I respect your ASE certification but I also owned a brake and front end
shop for 38 years. I have enough brake jobs to give me a clue as to what
is happening.
Just using common sense, if everything is the same (the hill) and the only
variable is different pads, it must have been the pads that are causing
the low mileage, not the hill, not his left foot.

40,000 is hardly good mileage for such a vehicle. Hell, i get over 60K on
4x4's and other such things. Brakes are like clutches, they only last as
long as you want them to.


s


"Sanity" wrote in message
...


Doug Miller wrote:
In article , Sanity wrote:
Just using common sense, if everything is the same (the hill) and the
only variable is different pads, it must have been the pads that are
causing the low mileage, not the hill, not his left foot.

So what caused the abnormally short life of the original equipment?

The original pads gave him good mileage. It was the replacement pads that
gave him low mileage.

In article , Sanity wrote:

42K for front pads on an all wheel drive is not pure but that wasn't the
question. The question was why did he get 42k on the first pads and 23K
on the replacement pads. It has nothing to do with the hill, his foot,
his shoes or his religion.

You're missing the point completely.

Instead of obsessing over why he got only 23K out of the replacement pads
instead of the 42K that he got out of the originals (a fact easily explained
by worn rotors and/or cheap replacement pads), he *should* be focused on why
he got only 42K out of the *originals* instead of 70K or 80K.