I guess there's no NG for auto repair, so ..

I bought my Forester in Sept. 2002, and apparently drove 42K without getting
new brakes. I then drove 22K before getting new breaks, and finally another
22K, when I now need new front brakes. I live in a foothill area of Calif.,
and drive up and down at least one 5-600' hill each day. I talked to a
mechanic today and he said that brake life is usually quite good at the start.
--
Wayne Watson (Watson Adventures, Prop., Nevada City, CA)

(121.015 Deg. W, 39.262 Deg. N) GMT-8 hr std. time)
Obz Site: 39° 15' 7" N, 121° 2' 32" W, 2700 feet

Web Page: www.speckledwithstars.net/

you might want tosearch your newsserver for 'subaru'. there are many.

s

"W. eWatson" wrote in message
news
I guess there's no NG for auto repair, so ..

I bought my Forester in Sept. 2002, and apparently drove 42K without
getting new brakes. I then drove 22K before getting new breaks, and
finally another 22K, when I now need new front brakes. I live in a
foothill area of Calif., and drive up and down at least one 5-600' hill
each day. I talked to a mechanic today and he said that brake life is
usually quite good at the start.
--
Wayne Watson (Watson Adventures, Prop., Nevada City, CA)

(121.015 Deg. W, 39.262 Deg. N) GMT-8 hr std. time)
Obz Site: 39° 15' 7" N, 121° 2' 32" W, 2700 feet

Web Page: www.speckledwithstars.net/

Steve Barker DLT wrote:
you might want tosearch your newsserver for 'subaru'. there are many.

s

"W. eWatson" wrote in message
news
I guess there's no NG for auto repair, so ..

I bought my Forester in Sept. 2002, and apparently drove 42K without
getting new brakes. I then drove 22K before getting new breaks, and
finally another 22K, when I now need new front brakes. I live in a
foothill area of Calif., and drive up and down at least one 5-600' hill
each day. I talked to a mechanic today and he said that brake life is
usually quite good at the start.
--
Wayne Watson (Watson Adventures, Prop., Nevada City, CA)

(121.015 Deg. W, 39.262 Deg. N) GMT-8 hr std. time)
Obz Site: 39° 15' 7" N, 121° 2' 32" W, 2700 feet

Web Page: www.speckledwithstars.net/


On my server, the group seems pathetically small.

--
Wayne Watson (Watson Adventures, Prop., Nevada City, CA)

(121.015 Deg. W, 39.262 Deg. N) GMT-8 hr std. time)
Obz Site: 39° 15' 7" N, 121° 2' 32" W, 2700 feet

Web Page: www.speckledwithstars.net/

yeah, you're right. I just subscribed to all 7 subaru groups on giga, and
none of them are overly busy.

s

"W. eWatson" wrote in message
...


On my server, the group seems pathetically small.

--
Wayne Watson (Watson Adventures, Prop., Nevada City, CA)

(121.015 Deg. W, 39.262 Deg. N) GMT-8 hr std. time)
Obz Site: 39° 15' 7" N, 121° 2' 32" W, 2700 feet

Web Page: www.speckledwithstars.net/

W. eWatson wrote:
I guess there's no NG for auto repair, so ..

I bought my Forester in Sept. 2002, and apparently drove 42K without
getting new brakes. I then drove 22K before getting new breaks, and
finally another 22K, when I now need new front brakes. I live in a
foothill area of Calif., and drive up and down at least one 5-600' hill
each day. I talked to a mechanic today and he said that brake life is
usually quite good at the start.

That 5 or 600 hill didn't get any higher since you bought the car. The
replacement pads that are being installed on the car might be an
inferior grade than the originals were or the rotors might be either too
thin causing excess heat and wear or the rotors might be slightly warped
causing premature wear. Most likely its the grade of pads being
installed though.

W. eWatson wrote:
I guess there's no NG for auto repair, so ..

I bought my Forester in Sept. 2002, and apparently drove 42K without
getting new brakes. I then drove 22K before getting new breaks, and
finally another 22K, when I now need new front brakes. I live in a
foothill area of Calif., and drive up and down at least one 5-600' hill
each day. I talked to a mechanic today and he said that brake life is
usually quite good at the start.

That 5 or 600 hill didn't get any higher since you bought the car. The
replacement pads that are being installed on the car might be an
inferior grade than the originals were or the rotors might be either too
thin causing excess heat and wear or the rotors might be slightly warped
causing premature wear. Most likely its the grade of pads being
installed though.

sounds like he's a left foot braker to me.

s


"Sanity" wrote in message
...


W. eWatson wrote:
I guess there's no NG for auto repair, so ..

I bought my Forester in Sept. 2002, and apparently drove 42K without
getting new brakes. I then drove 22K before getting new breaks, and
finally another 22K, when I now need new front brakes. I live in a
foothill area of Calif., and drive up and down at least one 5-600' hill
each day. I talked to a mechanic today and he said that brake life is
usually quite good at the start.

That 5 or 600 hill didn't get any higher since you bought the car. The
replacement pads that are being installed on the car might be an inferior
grade than the originals were or the rotors might be either too thin
causing excess heat and wear or the rotors might be slightly warped
causing premature wear. Most likely its the grade of pads being installed
though.

On Aug 20, 8:08*am, "W. eWatson" wrote:
I bought my Forester in Sept. 2002, and apparently drove 42K without getting
new brakes. I then drove 22K before getting new breaks, and finally another
22K, when I now need new front brakes. I live in a foothill area of Calif..,
and drive up and down at least one 5-600' hill each day. I talked to a
mechanic today and he said that brake life is usually quite good at the start.

So what is your question? Are you complaining about the short life of
the replacements? Replacement pads usually only last about half as
long as the originals, even with new rotors.

It's more important that your vehicle stops safely than how long your
pads last. I would rather have to replace pads and rotors every 15K
miles than have brakes that last 60K and don't stop the vehicle.

wrote:
On Aug 20, 8:08 am, "W. eWatson" wrote:
snip
So what is your question? Are you complaining about the short life of
the replacements? Replacement pads usually only last about half as
long as the originals, even with new rotors.


Not true. If he were to buy the OEM pads directly from the dealer or
bought the ceramic pads he would still get good life assuming rotors and
calipers were in good shape. I owned a brake shop for 30 years and have
done a 'few' brake jobs in my time. Most of the pads installed by repair
shops are inferior to the OEM. When you quote a price with the better
pads people look at you like your crazy. A good set of ceramic pads
alone could cost up to 90 dollars for two wheels. Then the labor to
install. I installed these ceramics in my own 2002 Forester Turbo and I
have 63000 miles on them with about 10 percent wear still left.

Sanity wrote:


wrote:
On Aug 20, 8:08 am, "W. eWatson" wrote:
snip
So what is your question? Are you complaining about the short life of
the replacements? Replacement pads usually only last about half as
long as the originals, even with new rotors.


Not true. If he were to buy the OEM pads directly from the dealer or
bought the ceramic pads he would still get good life assuming rotors and
calipers were in good shape. I owned a brake shop for 30 years and have
done a 'few' brake jobs in my time. Most of the pads installed by repair
shops are inferior to the OEM. When you quote a price with the better
pads people look at you like your crazy. A good set of ceramic pads
alone could cost up to 90 dollars for two wheels. Then the labor to
install. I installed these ceramics in my own 2002 Forester Turbo and I
have 63000 miles on them with about 10 percent wear still left.
I suspect you are correct. Even though my dealer is 30 miles from here, I
think I may let them do it again. However, I think the local mechanic I now
use is pretty good. BTW, it's down hill to the dealer. :-)

--
Wayne Watson (Watson Adventures, Prop., Nevada City, CA)

(121.015 Deg. W, 39.262 Deg. N) GMT-8 hr std. time)
Obz Site: 39° 15' 7" N, 121° 2' 32" W, 2700 feet

Web Page: www.speckledwithstars.net/

In article , "W. eWatson" wrote:
I guess there's no NG for auto repair, so ..

I bought my Forester in Sept. 2002, and apparently drove 42K without getting
new brakes. I then drove 22K before getting new breaks, and finally another
22K, when I now need new front brakes. I live in a foothill area of Calif.,
and drive up and down at least one 5-600' hill each day. I talked to a
mechanic today and he said that brake life is usually quite good at the start.

Driving *up* that hill is irrelevant. How you drive *down* it makes all the
difference: do you slow down only by stepping on the brakes? Or do you
shift the transmission to a lower gear too?

Doug Miller wrote:
In article , "W. eWatson" wrote:
I guess there's no NG for auto repair, so ..

I bought my Forester in Sept. 2002, and apparently drove 42K without getting
new brakes. I then drove 22K before getting new breaks, and finally another
22K, when I now need new front brakes. I live in a foothill area of Calif.,
and drive up and down at least one 5-600' hill each day. I talked to a
mechanic today and he said that brake life is usually quite good at the start.

Driving *up* that hill is irrelevant. How you drive *down* it makes all the
difference: do you slow down only by stepping on the brakes? Or do you
shift the transmission to a lower gear too?


He drove that same hill with the original pads so that doesn't enter the
picture.

In article , Sanity wrote:


Doug Miller wrote:
In article , "W. eWatson"
wrote:
I guess there's no NG for auto repair, so ..

I bought my Forester in Sept. 2002, and apparently drove 42K without getting

new brakes. I then drove 22K before getting new breaks, and finally another
22K, when I now need new front brakes. I live in a foothill area of Calif.,
and drive up and down at least one 5-600' hill each day. I talked to a
mechanic today and he said that brake life is usually quite good at the
start.

Driving *up* that hill is irrelevant. How you drive *down* it makes all the
difference: do you slow down only by stepping on the brakes? Or do you
shift the transmission to a lower gear too?


He drove that same hill with the original pads so that doesn't enter the
picture.

Sure it does -- he didn't get the life out of the original pads that he should
have, either. The shorter life of the replacements is no mystery at all;
they're usually lower quality than the original equipment. My point is that
his pad life is way too short, period -- probably because he's riding the
brakes all the way down that hill instead of downshifting like he should.

Fix the driving habits that are shortening the pad life, and the difference
between the originals and the replacements will cease to be significant.

Doug Miller wrote:
In article , Sanity wrote:

Doug Miller wrote:
In article , "W. eWatson"
wrote:
I guess there's no NG for auto repair, so ..

I bought my Forester in Sept. 2002, and apparently drove 42K without getting
new brakes. I then drove 22K before getting new breaks, and finally another
22K, when I now need new front brakes. I live in a foothill area of Calif.,
and drive up and down at least one 5-600' hill each day. I talked to a
mechanic today and he said that brake life is usually quite good at the
start.
Driving *up* that hill is irrelevant. How you drive *down* it makes all the
difference: do you slow down only by stepping on the brakes? Or do you
shift the transmission to a lower gear too?

He drove that same hill with the original pads so that doesn't enter the
picture.

Sure it does -- he didn't get the life out of the original pads that he should
have, either. The shorter life of the replacements is no mystery at all;
they're usually lower quality than the original equipment. My point is that
his pad life is way too short, period -- probably because he's riding the
brakes all the way down that hill instead of downshifting like he should.

Fix the driving habits that are shortening the pad life, and the difference
between the originals and the replacements will cease to be significant.
Automatic. Doesn't down shifting create wear on the transmission? It's not
the only hill around here. I'd probably wear out my hand down shifting.

--
Wayne Watson (Watson Adventures, Prop., Nevada City, CA)

(121.015 Deg. W, 39.262 Deg. N) GMT-8 hr std. time)
Obz Site: 39° 15' 7" N, 121° 2' 32" W, 2700 feet

Web Page: www.speckledwithstars.net/

In article , "W. eWatson" wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:
In article , Sanity
wrote:

Doug Miller wrote:
In article , "W. eWatson"
wrote:
I guess there's no NG for auto repair, so ..

I bought my Forester in Sept. 2002, and apparently drove 42K without
getting
new brakes. I then drove 22K before getting new breaks, and finally
another
22K, when I now need new front brakes. I live in a foothill area of
Calif.,
and drive up and down at least one 5-600' hill each day. I talked to a
mechanic today and he said that brake life is usually quite good at the
start.
Driving *up* that hill is irrelevant. How you drive *down* it makes all the

difference: do you slow down only by stepping on the brakes? Or do you
shift the transmission to a lower gear too?

He drove that same hill with the original pads so that doesn't enter the
picture.

Sure it does -- he didn't get the life out of the original pads that he
should
have, either. The shorter life of the replacements is no mystery at all;
they're usually lower quality than the original equipment. My point is that
his pad life is way too short, period -- probably because he's riding the
brakes all the way down that hill instead of downshifting like he should.

Fix the driving habits that are shortening the pad life, and the difference
between the originals and the replacements will cease to be significant.
Automatic. Doesn't down shifting create wear on the transmission? It's not
the only hill around here. I'd probably wear out my hand down shifting.

So what if it's automatic; you still downshift on long and/or steep
downgrades to save the brakes. The wear on the transmission is negligible,
and, in any event, safety is the prime concern here.

Good rule of thumb: if the hill is so long, or so steep, that you can't stay
under the posted speed limit (or posted advisory speeds for curves), plus
about 5mph, without using the brakes, you should downshift. Failing to do so
can result in complete brake failure.

W. eWatson wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:
....
Fix the driving habits that are shortening the pad life, and the
difference between the originals and the replacements will cease to be
significant.
Automatic. Doesn't down shifting create wear on the transmission? It's
not the only hill around here. I'd probably wear out my hand down shifting.

Some, sure, but not a concern of noticeably shortening transmission life.

As others noted, however, the difference between recent performance and
original would appear to be mostly related to difference between the OEM
and replacement pads rather than driving habits.

Over the length of a 600-ft hill unless it is very steep indeed (which,
of course, it _could_ be, particularly if it's inside a development or a
private drive as opposed to maintained public road) I'd not expect to be
able to attribute that much difference in wear to simply a tendency to
not downshift. Of course, it would be a reasonable practice as noted
elsewhere (altho the limitations outlined in at least one response are
far in excess of reason on the side of reality, however, imo).

In particular, of course, if one has an automatic that has an overdrive
or similar "mileage" gear, simply shifting down to the fixed gearing
ratio below it will cause engine braking that wouldn't get otherwise.

--

Doug Miller wrote:
In article , Sanity wrote:

Doug Miller wrote:
In article , "W. eWatson"
wrote:
I guess there's no NG for auto repair, so ..

I bought my Forester in Sept. 2002, and apparently drove 42K without getting
new brakes. I then drove 22K before getting new breaks, and finally another
22K, when I now need new front brakes. I live in a foothill area of Calif.,
and drive up and down at least one 5-600' hill each day. I talked to a
mechanic today and he said that brake life is usually quite good at the
start.
Driving *up* that hill is irrelevant. How you drive *down* it makes all the
difference: do you slow down only by stepping on the brakes? Or do you
shift the transmission to a lower gear too?

He drove that same hill with the original pads so that doesn't enter the
picture.

Sure it does -- he didn't get the life out of the original pads that he should
have, either. The shorter life of the replacements is no mystery at all;
they're usually lower quality than the original equipment. My point is that
his pad life is way too short, period -- probably because he's riding the
brakes all the way down that hill instead of downshifting like he should.

Fix the driving habits that are shortening the pad life, and the difference
between the originals and the replacements will cease to be significant.
Automatic. Doesn't down shifting create wear on the transmission? It's not
the only hill around here. I'd probably wear out my hand down shifting.

--
Wayne Watson (Watson Adventures, Prop., Nevada City, CA)

(121.015 Deg. W, 39.262 Deg. N) GMT-8 hr std. time)
Obz Site: 39° 15' 7" N, 121° 2' 32" W, 2700 feet

Web Page: www.speckledwithstars.net/

Doug Miller wrote:
In article , "W. eWatson" wrote:
I guess there's no NG for auto repair, so ..

I bought my Forester in Sept. 2002, and apparently drove 42K without getting
new brakes. I then drove 22K before getting new breaks, and finally another
22K, when I now need new front brakes. I live in a foothill area of Calif.,
and drive up and down at least one 5-600' hill each day. I talked to a
mechanic today and he said that brake life is usually quite good at the start.

Driving *up* that hill is irrelevant. How you drive *down* it makes all the
difference: do you slow down only by stepping on the brakes? Or do you
shift the transmission to a lower gear too?
Yes, if you fall off a cliff, it doesn't hurt until you hit the ground.
Automatic.

--
Wayne Watson (Watson Adventures, Prop., Nevada City, CA)

(121.015 Deg. W, 39.262 Deg. N) GMT-8 hr std. time)
Obz Site: 39° 15' 7" N, 121° 2' 32" W, 2700 feet

Web Page: www.speckledwithstars.net/

In article , "W. eWatson" wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:
In article , "W. eWatson"
wrote:
I guess there's no NG for auto repair, so ..

I bought my Forester in Sept. 2002, and apparently drove 42K without getting

new brakes. I then drove 22K before getting new breaks, and finally another
22K, when I now need new front brakes. I live in a foothill area of Calif.,
and drive up and down at least one 5-600' hill each day. I talked to a
mechanic today and he said that brake life is usually quite good at the
start.

Driving *up* that hill is irrelevant. How you drive *down* it makes all the
difference: do you slow down only by stepping on the brakes? Or do you
shift the transmission to a lower gear too?
Yes, if you fall off a cliff, it doesn't hurt until you hit the ground.
Automatic.

You didn't answer my question: do you slow down only by stepping on the
brakes? Or do you shift the transmission to a lower gear too?

Doug Miller wrote:
In article , "W. eWatson" wrote:
Doug Miller wrote:
In article , "W. eWatson"
wrote:
I guess there's no NG for auto repair, so ..

I bought my Forester in Sept. 2002, and apparently drove 42K without getting
new brakes. I then drove 22K before getting new breaks, and finally another
22K, when I now need new front brakes. I live in a foothill area of Calif.,
and drive up and down at least one 5-600' hill each day. I talked to a
mechanic today and he said that brake life is usually quite good at the
start.
Driving *up* that hill is irrelevant. How you drive *down* it makes all the
difference: do you slow down only by stepping on the brakes? Or do you
shift the transmission to a lower gear too?
Yes, if you fall off a cliff, it doesn't hurt until you hit the ground.
Automatic.

You didn't answer my question: do you slow down only by stepping on the
brakes? Or do you shift the transmission to a lower gear too?
Right foot only. For all 85K miles.

--
Wayne Watson (Watson Adventures, Prop., Nevada City, CA)

(121.015 Deg. W, 39.262 Deg. N) GMT-8 hr std. time)
Obz Site: 39° 15' 7" N, 121° 2' 32" W, 2700 feet

Web Page: www.speckledwithstars.net/

"W. eWatson" wrote in message
news
I guess there's no NG for auto repair, so ..

You could try rec.autos.tech.

--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

he's already found alt.autos.subaru

it seems a fairly busy group.

s


"Don Phillipson" wrote in message
...
"W. eWatson" wrote in message
news
I guess there's no NG for auto repair, so ..

You could try rec.autos.tech.

--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

On Wed, 20 Aug 2008 10:53:31 -0400, "Don Phillipson"
wrote Re Auto Brake Wear for 2003 Forester
Subaru:

"W. eWatson" wrote in message
news
I guess there's no NG for auto repair, so ..

You could try rec.autos.tech.

Or alt.autos.subaru

watch for bad rubber brake lines, the interior of the hoses detoriate,
and act like check valves, the brakes never go completely off.........

massive fast pad wear........

W. eWatson wrote:
I guess there's no NG for auto repair, so ..

I bought my Forester in Sept. 2002, and apparently drove 42K without
getting new brakes. I then drove 22K before getting new breaks, and
finally another 22K, when I now need new front brakes. I live in a
foothill area of Calif., and drive up and down at least one 5-600' hill
each day. I talked to a mechanic today and he said that brake life is
usually quite good at the start.
Hi,
Using same OEM pads? Maybe caliper is sticking? On my '98 Homda CRV I
logged 150K miles B4 I needed a brake job. At my dealer I had discs
drums turned, flushed system, put in new pads/linings. Since almost 70K
miles and nothing wrong with brakes. I do mostly freeway driving.

Do you shift down on the 5-600' hill or just leave it in drive or high gear
if a manual tranny? Shifting down to a lower gear will go a long way in
extending the life of your brake pads.

Don

"W. eWatson" wrote in message
news
I guess there's no NG for auto repair, so ..

I bought my Forester in Sept. 2002, and apparently drove 42K without
getting new brakes. I then drove 22K before getting new breaks, and
finally another 22K, when I now need new front brakes. I live in a
foothill area of Calif., and drive up and down at least one 5-600' hill
each day. I talked to a mechanic today and he said that brake life is
usually quite good at the start.
--
Wayne Watson (Watson Adventures, Prop., Nevada City, CA)

(121.015 Deg. W, 39.262 Deg. N) GMT-8 hr std. time)
Obz Site: 39° 15' 7" N, 121° 2' 32" W, 2700 feet

Web Page: www.speckledwithstars.net/

On Aug 21, 3:37*am, "RVer Don" wrote:
Do you shift down on the 5-600' hill or just leave it in drive or high gear
if a manual tranny? *Shifting down to a lower gear will go a long way in
extending the life of your brake pads.

Don

"W. eWatson" wrote in message

news


I guess there's no NG for auto repair, so ..

I bought my Forester in Sept. 2002, and apparently drove 42K without
getting new brakes. I then drove 22K before getting new breaks, and
finally another 22K, when I now need new front brakes. I live in a
foothill area of Calif., and drive up and down at least one 5-600' hill
each day. I talked to a mechanic today and he said that brake life is
usually quite good at the start.
--
* * * * * *Wayne Watson (Watson Adventures, Prop., Nevada City, CA)

* * * * * * *(121.015 Deg. W, 39.262 Deg. N) GMT-8 hr std.. time)
* * * * * * * Obz Site: *39° 15' 7" N, 121° 2' 32" W, 2700 feet

* * * * * * * * * * Web Page: www.speckledwithstars.net/- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Could be driving habits!

Pretty hilly here yet we get 50,000 plus miles on brakes on medium
loaded pickups. And we buy good quality replacements.

Big hill coming down into this community, supposedly at 30 mph. It is
preceded by a 60 kilometre (40 mph) approach; so vehicle come sailing
up over the top of the hill and then put their brakes on, sometimes
brake lights all the way down the hill!
Since we have one 5 and one 6 speed Nissan manual gear vehicles we are
usually in 3rd down the hill, even 2nd, if traffic is slow or turning
on/off. Only using the brakes if necessary.

We plan to do brakes on one of the vehicle this weekend, including new
front rotors. Looks like due to little use while away over the winter
the caliper pins may have partially stuck and caused rotor warping?

Daughter has a 2001 automatic transmission Subaru (Forester SW I
think) and has spent a 'lot' of money on brakes. Although her previous
vehicles were all automatics. Maybe Subarus, especially in hilly
country, are 'hard on brakes'? This vehicle with its all wheel drive
system is also fairly heavy, which is also a factor.

By same token a neighbour whose family persistently drives automatic
Chev pickups, but only uses them privately and to get to and from work
daily, always seems to be putting on brakes and even front end parts!

Of all the vehicles this family has had, 4 cylinder Toyota cars,
followed by Toyota pickups, then by Nissan pickups a) Manufactured in
Japan and then b) Followed by manufactured in the USA, have had best
(lowest cost/frequency) of maintenance.

And weather and road conditions, including road salting , proximity to
the ocean and length of winters here are fairly severe. Corrosion is a
big factor.

terry wrote:
On Aug 21, 3:37 am, "RVer Don" wrote:
Do you shift down on the 5-600' hill or just leave it in drive or high gear
if a manual tranny? Shifting down to a lower gear will go a long way in
extending the life of your brake pads.

Don

"W. eWatson" wrote in message

news


I guess there's no NG for auto repair, so ..
I bought my Forester in Sept. 2002, and apparently drove 42K without
getting new brakes. I then drove 22K before getting new breaks, and
finally another 22K, when I now need new front brakes. I live in a
foothill area of Calif., and drive up and down at least one 5-600' hill
each day. I talked to a mechanic today and he said that brake life is
usually quite good at the start.
--
Wayne Watson (Watson Adventures, Prop., Nevada City, CA)
(121.015 Deg. W, 39.262 Deg. N) GMT-8 hr std.. time)
Obz Site: 39° 15' 7" N, 121° 2' 32" W, 2700 feet
Web Page: www.speckledwithstars.net/- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Could be driving habits!

Pretty hilly here yet we get 50,000 plus miles on brakes on medium
loaded pickups. And we buy good quality replacements.

Big hill coming down into this community, supposedly at 30 mph. It is
preceded by a 60 kilometre (40 mph) approach; so vehicle come sailing
up over the top of the hill and then put their brakes on, sometimes
brake lights all the way down the hill!
Since we have one 5 and one 6 speed Nissan manual gear vehicles we are
usually in 3rd down the hill, even 2nd, if traffic is slow or turning
on/off. Only using the brakes if necessary.

We plan to do brakes on one of the vehicle this weekend, including new
front rotors. Looks like due to little use while away over the winter
the caliper pins may have partially stuck and caused rotor warping?

Daughter has a 2001 automatic transmission Subaru (Forester SW I
think) and has spent a 'lot' of money on brakes. Although her previous
vehicles were all automatics. Maybe Subarus, especially in hilly
country, are 'hard on brakes'? This vehicle with its all wheel drive
system is also fairly heavy, which is also a factor.

By same token a neighbour whose family persistently drives automatic
Chev pickups, but only uses them privately and to get to and from work
daily, always seems to be putting on brakes and even front end parts!

Of all the vehicles this family has had, 4 cylinder Toyota cars,
followed by Toyota pickups, then by Nissan pickups a) Manufactured in
Japan and then b) Followed by manufactured in the USA, have had best
(lowest cost/frequency) of maintenance.

And weather and road conditions, including road salting , proximity to
the ocean and length of winters here are fairly severe. Corrosion is a
big factor.

Everyone seems to be forgetting that the hill was there when he first
bought this vehicle so his terrain or driving habits did not change. The
only thing that changed were the front pads. That's the variable. As I
said before, if he bought OEM pads from Subaru or the new ceramic pads
he would have gotten the same or better mileage than he did on his
original pads.
The way the thread is going, someone is going to ask the OP is he
changed his shoes to a heavier sole or heel.

We all understand the hill hasn't changed, AND only the pads have
changed..... THAT doesn't get rid of the fact that EVEN with the OEM pads
he only got about half of what he should have... The driving habits need to
be checked.


I still say he's a left foot braker. I'll bet the pad is wore clean off the
left side of his brake pedal. As a career ASE mechanic, i've seen PLENTY of
brake pedal pads worn off on the left side and they'll stand there and look
you in the face and tell you they don't use their left foot on the brake.
And i can assure you, if they're using the left foot on the brake, THEN
they're also riding the brake.


s


"Sanity" wrote in message
news


terry wrote:
On Aug 21, 3:37 am, "RVer Don" wrote:
Do you shift down on the 5-600' hill or just leave it in drive or high
gear
if a manual tranny? Shifting down to a lower gear will go a long way in
extending the life of your brake pads.

Don

"W. eWatson" wrote in message

news


I guess there's no NG for auto repair, so ..
I bought my Forester in Sept. 2002, and apparently drove 42K without
getting new brakes. I then drove 22K before getting new breaks, and
finally another 22K, when I now need new front brakes. I live in a
foothill area of Calif., and drive up and down at least one 5-600' hill
each day. I talked to a mechanic today and he said that brake life is
usually quite good at the start.
--
Wayne Watson (Watson Adventures, Prop., Nevada City, CA)
(121.015 Deg. W, 39.262 Deg. N) GMT-8 hr std.. time)
Obz Site: 39° 15' 7" N, 121° 2' 32" W, 2700 feet
Web Page: www.speckledwithstars.net/- Hide quoted
text -
- Show quoted text -

Could be driving habits!

Pretty hilly here yet we get 50,000 plus miles on brakes on medium
loaded pickups. And we buy good quality replacements.

Big hill coming down into this community, supposedly at 30 mph. It is
preceded by a 60 kilometre (40 mph) approach; so vehicle come sailing
up over the top of the hill and then put their brakes on, sometimes
brake lights all the way down the hill!
Since we have one 5 and one 6 speed Nissan manual gear vehicles we are
usually in 3rd down the hill, even 2nd, if traffic is slow or turning
on/off. Only using the brakes if necessary.

We plan to do brakes on one of the vehicle this weekend, including new
front rotors. Looks like due to little use while away over the winter
the caliper pins may have partially stuck and caused rotor warping?

Daughter has a 2001 automatic transmission Subaru (Forester SW I
think) and has spent a 'lot' of money on brakes. Although her previous
vehicles were all automatics. Maybe Subarus, especially in hilly
country, are 'hard on brakes'? This vehicle with its all wheel drive
system is also fairly heavy, which is also a factor.

By same token a neighbour whose family persistently drives automatic
Chev pickups, but only uses them privately and to get to and from work
daily, always seems to be putting on brakes and even front end parts!

Of all the vehicles this family has had, 4 cylinder Toyota cars,
followed by Toyota pickups, then by Nissan pickups a) Manufactured in
Japan and then b) Followed by manufactured in the USA, have had best
(lowest cost/frequency) of maintenance.

And weather and road conditions, including road salting , proximity to
the ocean and length of winters here are fairly severe. Corrosion is a
big factor.

Everyone seems to be forgetting that the hill was there when he first
bought this vehicle so his terrain or driving habits did not change. The
only thing that changed were the front pads. That's the variable. As I
said before, if he bought OEM pads from Subaru or the new ceramic pads he
would have gotten the same or better mileage than he did on his original
pads.
The way the thread is going, someone is going to ask the OP is he changed
his shoes to a heavier sole or heel.

Steve Barker DLT wrote:
We all understand the hill hasn't changed, AND only the pads have
changed..... THAT doesn't get rid of the fact that EVEN with the OEM pads
he only got about half of what he should have... The driving habits need to
be checked.


I still say he's a left foot braker. I'll bet the pad is wore clean off the
left side of his brake pedal. As a career ASE mechanic, i've seen PLENTY of
brake pedal pads worn off on the left side and they'll stand there and look
you in the face and tell you they don't use their left foot on the brake.
And i can assure you, if they're using the left foot on the brake, THEN
they're also riding the brake.

Sorry. It's my right foot.

--
Wayne Watson (Watson Adventures, Prop., Nevada City, CA)

(121.015 Deg. W, 39.262 Deg. N) GMT-8 hr std. time)
Obz Site: 39° 15' 7" N, 121° 2' 32" W, 2700 feet

Web Page: www.speckledwithstars.net/

Steve Barker DLT wrote:
We all understand the hill hasn't changed, AND only the pads have
changed..... THAT doesn't get rid of the fact that EVEN with the OEM pads
he only got about half of what he should have... The driving habits need to
be checked.


I still say he's a left foot braker. I'll bet the pad is wore clean off the
left side of his brake pedal. As a career ASE mechanic, i've seen PLENTY of
brake pedal pads worn off on the left side and they'll stand there and look
you in the face and tell you they don't use their left foot on the brake.
And i can assure you, if they're using the left foot on the brake, THEN
they're also riding the brake.


s


No where did he say he installed OEM brake pads. From my recollection he
said he had his pads replaced.
I respect your ASE certification but I also owned a brake and front end
shop for 38 years. I have enough brake jobs to give me a clue as to what
is happening.
Just using common sense, if everything is the same (the hill) and the
only variable is different pads, it must have been the pads that are
causing the low mileage, not the hill, not his left foot.

Sanity wrote:


terry wrote:
On Aug 21, 3:37 am, "RVer Don" wrote:
Do you shift down on the 5-600' hill or just leave it in drive or
high gear
if a manual tranny? Shifting down to a lower gear will go a long way in
extending the life of your brake pads.

Don

"W. eWatson" wrote in message

news


I guess there's no NG for auto repair, so ..
I bought my Forester in Sept. 2002, and apparently drove 42K without
getting new brakes. I then drove 22K before getting new breaks, and
finally another 22K, when I now need new front brakes. I live in a
foothill area of Calif., and drive up and down at least one 5-600' hill
each day. I talked to a mechanic today and he said that brake life is
usually quite good at the start.
--
Wayne Watson (Watson Adventures, Prop., Nevada City, CA)
(121.015 Deg. W, 39.262 Deg. N) GMT-8 hr std.. time)
Obz Site: 39° 15' 7" N, 121° 2' 32" W, 2700 feet
Web Page: www.speckledwithstars.net/- Hide
quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Could be driving habits!

Pretty hilly here yet we get 50,000 plus miles on brakes on medium
loaded pickups. And we buy good quality replacements.

Big hill coming down into this community, supposedly at 30 mph. It is
preceded by a 60 kilometre (40 mph) approach; so vehicle come sailing
up over the top of the hill and then put their brakes on, sometimes
brake lights all the way down the hill!
Since we have one 5 and one 6 speed Nissan manual gear vehicles we are
usually in 3rd down the hill, even 2nd, if traffic is slow or turning
on/off. Only using the brakes if necessary.

We plan to do brakes on one of the vehicle this weekend, including new
front rotors. Looks like due to little use while away over the winter
the caliper pins may have partially stuck and caused rotor warping?

Daughter has a 2001 automatic transmission Subaru (Forester SW I
think) and has spent a 'lot' of money on brakes. Although her previous
vehicles were all automatics. Maybe Subarus, especially in hilly
country, are 'hard on brakes'? This vehicle with its all wheel drive
system is also fairly heavy, which is also a factor.

By same token a neighbour whose family persistently drives automatic
Chev pickups, but only uses them privately and to get to and from work
daily, always seems to be putting on brakes and even front end parts!

Of all the vehicles this family has had, 4 cylinder Toyota cars,
followed by Toyota pickups, then by Nissan pickups a) Manufactured in
Japan and then b) Followed by manufactured in the USA, have had best
(lowest cost/frequency) of maintenance.

And weather and road conditions, including road salting , proximity to
the ocean and length of winters here are fairly severe. Corrosion is a
big factor.

Everyone seems to be forgetting that the hill was there when he first
bought this vehicle so his terrain or driving habits did not change. The
only thing that changed were the front pads. That's the variable. As I
said before, if he bought OEM pads from Subaru or the new ceramic pads
he would have gotten the same or better mileage than he did on his
original pads.
The way the thread is going, someone is going to ask the OP is he
changed his shoes to a heavier sole or heel.
It appears that I can ask my local mechanic for ceramic pads.

Actually, I do need new shoes on my feet, and I do go up and down hills on
my property almost every day*. But let's not go there. :-)

* I even return home almost every night.

--
Wayne Watson (Watson Adventures, Prop., Nevada City, CA)

(121.015 Deg. W, 39.262 Deg. N) GMT-8 hr std. time)
Obz Site: 39° 15' 7" N, 121° 2' 32" W, 2700 feet

Web Page: www.speckledwithstars.net/

This will probably start a flaming session on this thread, but here
are my thoughts.

40-60K on OEM pads is typical. However, it really depends on the
vehicle. I've seen some Chrysler minivans wear out a set of OEM pads
in as little as 28K. I've also seen some vehicles get 80K.

On replacement pads, it's really a matter of putting in a quality set.
There are NO industry standards on what you can call a premium pad.
Zip, nadda. So the cheap crap that's coming in from China is all
labeled PREMIUM. It's such a huge problem that the reputable brake
friction companies have started an independent testing lab to test
their products. If it's B.E.E.P. or D3EA certified, it's a quality
product.

When it comes to the type of friction material, you can't just go with
a blanket statements that ceramics are better. Ceramics offer some
advantages, longer life isn't one of them. They are really designed
for quieter operation and less brake dust, as opposed to
semi-metallics which offer the best heat dissapation and stopping
power. Ceramic composition varies from manufacturer to manufacturer.
Again, no industry standard.

Same thing with rotors. The economy rotors are the worst. You can buy
a name brand Wagner or Raybestos rotor and an economy rotor for the
same vehicle, and the economy rotor will weigh less, have thinner
friction surfaces, and fewer cooling vanes. They don't fit on the hub
as well and that can cause them to warp faster. Because they're made
from cheaper metals, they can chew up a set of pad mighty fast. It's
the rotors job to absorb and then dissapate heat quickly. If it's
thinner right out of the box, you're compromising safety. Tests by
Raybestos show greater stopping distances with economy rotors.

The other thing many shops overlook is the operation of the rear
brakes. They only do 20% of the braking, but if they aren't working
properly, that extra 20% on the fronts really puts them over the edge.
That means properly adjusting the rears, making sure the self
adjusters work, and checking the operation of the proportioning valve.

To various posters on this thread,

This is the bottom of the big hill, Ridge and Nevada City Hwy. The top is up
Ridge Road about 3/4 of a mile. When I reach the top, I then descent 200
feet down to my house. It's hilly and curvy.
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&q=go%20to%20head%20of%20class%20board%2 0game&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wl
So I go up a hill from around A every day, then down a 200' hill to my
house. I do go the other way when I leave the house. Lots of hills, and
curves. Stop by some time and I'll take you for a ride.

--
Wayne Watson (Watson Adventures, Prop., Nevada City, CA)

(121.015 Deg. W, 39.262 Deg. N) GMT-8 hr std. time)
Obz Site: 39° 15' 7" N, 121° 2' 32" W, 2700 feet

Web Page: www.speckledwithstars.net/