getting a home ready for sale, how much repair?

I have friends who have to move because the wife needs some place more
accessible.

Their current house is about 50 years old, two adults and two almost
grown children, in good but not great condition, mid-quality house.
Whole-house AC, good sized lot, 3BR but nothing else that's really
fancy. While prices have gone down in some parts of Baltimore, I'm
told that they haven't gone down on the 5 blocks around this house,
because all the houses are well taken care off, inhabited by owners,
all the yards look very nice, and it's tucked away and gets almost no
traffic, while still close to shopping and the xway.

How much repair and remodeling is necessary or advisable to get the
best net price for the house?

Is it better to spend 10,000 (or maybe thousands more than that) on
repairs for a house that may sell for 300,000, or 350 or to take
10,000** off the price and let the buyers do the repairs/remodeling
with that money and get exactly what they want? Also with the
economy, wouldn't some potential buyers rather buy a house that's
cheaper, and gradually do the repairs?

**Or take even more than the cost of fixing it up, take 15 or 20,000
off the price because doing all this will be an enormous headache for
all who live their now, three of the four work more than full time, 6
days a week, plus two of them have big allergies to dust, as from
sanding the dining room floor or scraping paint. And they are
supposed to close on their "new" but old house on 9/23, and of course
they'd like to have their old one sold by then.

Then the new owners could do all the repairs and remodeling before
they move in, while the house is vacant. My friends the sellers
could further discount the house to pay the buyer's extra cost for
having two homes for one or two months.

One real estate agent recommends fixing everything.

The dining room floor has a big rug in the middle, but the finish
underneath is very worn and needs sanding and finishing. But maybe
the new owners will put in wall-to-wall carpeting there and don't care
what the wood looks like. Maybe they'd rather have 1000 dollars to do
other things than refinish a floor they'll never see.

The finished basemeent family room has 9x9 inch acoustic ceiling
tiles, a few of which are damaged, some just a little and 4 a lot and
4 water damaged. The REAgent recommends replacing the whole ceiling,
probably 1000 dollars. Someone suggested painting it, costs much
less, but might look bad and won't fix the broken tiles.

Remodelling the kitchen and at least one bathroom. Versus just
removing the wall paper from one wall in the kitchen. Kitchen has
new appliances, new ceramic tile on floor and backsplash, and new
ceramic tile on counters, but still looks old-fashioned. REAgent
wants to redo the whole thing and the bathrooms.

Putting aluminum siding over what I'm told is asphalt tile, about 12
inches by 16 inches, in good condition but old-fashioned, on two or
three outside walls, except for the wall facing the street. Owner was
told that asphalt tiles are much better insulation than the
replacement will be, but putting the siding on while the asphalt tiles
are still there is very difficult. Holes have to be drilled, because
he says nails won't go through the tile.



A couple more detail questions in posts to follow.

Thanks a lot.

"mm" wrote in message
...
getting a home ready for sale, how much repair?

I have friends who have to move because the wife needs some place more
accessible.

Their current house is about 50 years old, two adults and two almost
grown children, in good but not great condition, mid-quality house.
Whole-house AC, good sized lot, 3BR but nothing else that's really
fancy. While prices have gone down in some parts of Baltimore, I'm
told that they haven't gone down on the 5 blocks around this house,
because all the houses are well taken care off, inhabited by owners,
all the yards look very nice, and it's tucked away and gets almost no
traffic, while still close to shopping and the xway.

How much repair and remodeling is necessary or advisable to get the
best net price for the house?

Is it better to spend 10,000 (or maybe thousands more than that) on
repairs for a house that may sell for 300,000, or 350 or to take
10,000** off the price and let the buyers do the repairs/remodeling
with that money and get exactly what they want? Also with the
economy, wouldn't some potential buyers rather buy a house that's
cheaper, and gradually do the repairs?

**Or take even more than the cost of fixing it up, take 15 or 20,000
off the price because doing all this will be an enormous headache for
all who live their now, three of the four work more than full time, 6
days a week, plus two of them have big allergies to dust, as from
sanding the dining room floor or scraping paint. And they are
supposed to close on their "new" but old house on 9/23, and of course
they'd like to have their old one sold by then.

Then the new owners could do all the repairs and remodeling before
they move in, while the house is vacant. My friends the sellers
could further discount the house to pay the buyer's extra cost for
having two homes for one or two months.

One real estate agent recommends fixing everything.

The dining room floor has a big rug in the middle, but the finish
underneath is very worn and needs sanding and finishing. But maybe
the new owners will put in wall-to-wall carpeting there and don't care
what the wood looks like. Maybe they'd rather have 1000 dollars to do
other things than refinish a floor they'll never see.

The finished basemeent family room has 9x9 inch acoustic ceiling
tiles, a few of which are damaged, some just a little and 4 a lot and
4 water damaged. The REAgent recommends replacing the whole ceiling,
probably 1000 dollars. Someone suggested painting it, costs much
less, but might look bad and won't fix the broken tiles.

Remodelling the kitchen and at least one bathroom. Versus just
removing the wall paper from one wall in the kitchen. Kitchen has
new appliances, new ceramic tile on floor and backsplash, and new
ceramic tile on counters, but still looks old-fashioned. REAgent
wants to redo the whole thing and the bathrooms.

Putting aluminum siding over what I'm told is asphalt tile, about 12
inches by 16 inches, in good condition but old-fashioned, on two or
three outside walls, except for the wall facing the street. Owner was
told that asphalt tiles are much better insulation than the
replacement will be, but putting the siding on while the asphalt tiles
are still there is very difficult. Holes have to be drilled, because
he says nails won't go through the tile.



I've talked with several real estate agents regarding the current market
here in NJ. They all said the same thing. The houses that are selling are
the ones that are in really good condition and are priced right. Get other
opinions, but your friends are probably going to have to do the repairs and
some upgrades that they failed to do while living there. The other option
is a ridiculously low selling price.

On Jun 23, 7:25*am, "John Grabowski" wrote:
"mm" wrote in message

...





getting a home ready for sale, how much repair?

I have friends who have to move because the wife needs some place more
accessible.

Their current house is about 50 years old, two adults and two almost
grown children, in good but not great condition, mid-quality house.
Whole-house AC, good sized lot, 3BR but nothing else that's really
fancy. *While prices have gone down in some parts of Baltimore, I'm
told that they haven't gone down on the 5 blocks around this house,
because all the houses are well taken care off, inhabited by owners,
all the yards look very nice, and it's tucked away and gets almost no
traffic, while still close to shopping and the xway.

How much repair and remodeling is necessary or advisable to get the
best net price for the house?

Is it better to spend 10,000 (or maybe thousands more than that) on
repairs for a house that may sell for 300,000, or 350 or to take
10,000** off the price and let the buyers do the repairs/remodeling
with that money and get exactly what they want? *Also with the
economy, wouldn't some potential buyers rather buy a house that's
cheaper, and gradually do the repairs?

**Or take even more than the cost of fixing it up, take 15 or 20,000
off the price because doing all this will be an enormous headache for
all who live their now, three of the four work more than full time, 6
days a week, plus two of them have big allergies to dust, as from
sanding the dining room floor or scraping paint. *And they are
supposed to close on their "new" but old house on 9/23, and of course
they'd like to have their old one sold by then.

Then the new owners could do all the repairs and remodeling before
they move in, while the house is vacant. * My friends the sellers
could further discount the house to pay the buyer's extra cost for
having two homes for one or two months.

One real estate agent recommends fixing everything.

The dining room floor has a big rug in the middle, but the finish
underneath is very worn and needs sanding and finishing. * But maybe
the new owners will put in wall-to-wall carpeting there and don't care
what the wood looks like. *Maybe they'd rather have 1000 dollars to do
other things than refinish a floor they'll never see.

The finished basemeent family room has 9x9 inch acoustic ceiling
tiles, a few of which are damaged, some just a little and 4 a lot and
4 water damaged. *The REAgent recommends replacing the whole ceiling,
probably 1000 dollars. *Someone suggested painting it, costs much
less, but might look bad and won't fix the broken tiles.

Remodelling the kitchen and at least one bathroom. * Versus just
removing the wall paper from one wall in the kitchen. * Kitchen has
new appliances, new ceramic tile on floor and backsplash, and new
ceramic tile on counters, but still looks old-fashioned. *REAgent
wants to redo the whole thing and the bathrooms.

Putting aluminum siding over what I'm told is asphalt tile, about 12
inches by 16 inches, in good condition but old-fashioned, on two or
three outside walls, except for the wall facing the street. *Owner was
told that asphalt tiles are much better insulation than the
replacement will be, but putting the siding on while the asphalt tiles
are still there is very difficult. *Holes have to be drilled, because
he says nails won't go through the tile.

I've talked with several real estate agents regarding the current market
here in NJ. *They all said the same thing. *The houses that are selling are
the ones that are in really good condition and are priced right. *Get other
opinions, but your friends are probably going to have to do the repairs and
some upgrades that they failed to do while living there. *The other option
is a ridiculously low selling price.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


It's very hard to answer this kind of question without actually seeing
how the house presents itself. In general, I'd say do the wood floor
refinishing because it's relatively quick and inexpensive and will
stand out. I'd also replace the basement ceiling for the same
reason.

Kitchen is much more difficult and impossible without seeing it.
Clearly, doing a total remodel of a kitchen is a MAJOR expense. You
can easily spend $25-50K. It has new appliances, new tile floor
already, and it's impossible to evaluate what else is wrong. Tile
counters clearly aren't the preferred choice for re-sale. Depending
on what the whole thing looks like, you might be able to go with new
granite or similar countertops. But it also may not be worth it
because of other issues. It's probably best to either do something
simple for a few thousand or else go with a whole remodel.

Same thing with the siding, without seeing it, impossible to say.

Keep in mind that the real estate agents goals are somewhat at odds
with those of the seller. For the agent, it will always be better to
have a house in absolute stunning condition, because it will be easier
to sell and close a lot quicker. So, if you put $50K into it and
only get $20K back, it's still a good thing for the agent. I'd start
going to open houses in the area and see what features similar houses
have.

On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 07:25:08 -0400, John Grabowski wrote:

"mm" wrote in message
...
getting a home ready for sale, how much repair?

I have friends who have to move because the wife needs some place more
accessible.

snip
Putting aluminum siding over what I'm told is asphalt tile, about 12
inches by 16 inches, in good condition but old-fashioned, on two or
three outside walls, except for the wall facing the street. Owner was
told that asphalt tiles are much better insulation than the
replacement will be, but putting the siding on while the asphalt tiles
are still there is very difficult. Holes have to be drilled, because
he says nails won't go through the tile.


Sounds like asbestos siding, not asphalt. Drilling is an environmental
hazard. If asphalt, you can attach thin plywood over it and nail into the
plywood. If asbestos you need an approved hazmat handler to remove it and
put it in labeled plastic bags and take them to the city dump.



I've talked with several real estate agents regarding the current market
here in NJ. They all said the same thing. The houses that are selling are
the ones that are in really good condition and are priced right. Get other
opinions, but your friends are probably going to have to do the repairs and
some upgrades that they failed to do while living there. The other option
is a ridiculously low selling price.

I would have to agree with this assessment, especially in light of the
amount of repairs that seem to be needed. If it was down to about $1,000
it might be a different story, but to need that much in repairs shows that
the house has not been kept up. First impression sells houses. Stick with
neutral, light colors. Consider Habitat for Humanity Restore for fixtures.
You can often get some nice, almost new, or even new items at ridiculously
low prices.

On Jun 23, 9:18�am, Mike Dobony wrote:
On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 07:25:08 -0400, John Grabowski wrote:
"mm" wrote in message
.. .
getting a home ready for sale, how much repair?

I have friends who have to move because the wife needs some place more
accessible.

snip
Putting aluminum siding over what I'm told is asphalt tile, about 12
inches by 16 inches, in good condition but old-fashioned, on two or
three outside walls, except for the wall facing the street. �Owner was
told that asphalt tiles are much better insulation than the
replacement will be, but putting the siding on while the asphalt tiles
are still there is very difficult. �Holes have to be drilled, because
he says nails won't go through the tile.

Sounds like asbestos siding, not asphalt. �Drilling is an environmental
hazard. �If asphalt, you can attach thin plywood over it and nail into the
plywood. �If asbestos you need an approved hazmat handler to remove it and
put it in labeled plastic bags and take them to the city dump.



I've talked with several real estate agents regarding the current market
here in NJ. �They all said the same thing. �The houses that are selling are
the ones that are in really good condition and are priced right. �Get other
opinions, but your friends are probably going to have to do the repairs and
some upgrades that they failed to do while living there. �The other option
is a ridiculously low selling price.

I would have to agree with this assessment, especially in light of the
amount of repairs that seem to be needed. �If it was down to about $1,000
it might be a different story, but to need that much in repairs shows that
the house has not been kept up. �First impression sells houses. �Stick with
neutral, light colors. �Consider Habitat for Humanity Restore for fixtures.
You can often get some nice, almost new, or even new items at ridiculously
low prices.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

FIX EVERYTHING! 90% of buyers want a home in move in perfect
condition, they will change whatever later.....

the 90% dont want the hassles, expenses, of fixing stuff.

do everything in clean neutral colors, like white which makes rooms
look larger.

invest a few hundred bucks in a home inspection, and fix the laundry
list they will find.

this is better than their home inspoector scaring off the buyer.....

if you dont fix up the home 90% wouldnt be interested, depressing
price a LOT......

and adding a lot of time till its sold

been there done all this.........

wrote:
On Jun 23, 7:25 am, "John Grabowski" wrote:
"mm" wrote in message

How much repair and remodeling is necessary or advisable to get the
best net price for the house?

The dining room floor has a big rug in the middle, but the finish
underneath is very worn and needs sanding and finishing. But maybe
the new owners will put in wall-to-wall carpeting there and don't
care what the wood looks like. Maybe they'd rather have 1000
dollars to do other things than refinish a floor they'll never see.

The finished basemeent family room has 9x9 inch acoustic ceiling
tiles, a few of which are damaged, some just a little and 4 a lot
and 4 water damaged. The REAgent recommends replacing the whole
ceiling, probably 1000 dollars. Someone suggested painting it,
costs much less, but might look bad and won't fix the broken tiles.

Remodelling the kitchen and at least one bathroom. Versus just
removing the wall paper from one wall in the kitchen. Kitchen has
new appliances, new ceramic tile on floor and backsplash, and new
ceramic tile on counters, but still looks old-fashioned. REAgent
wants to redo the whole thing and the bathrooms.

I've talked with several real estate agents regarding the current
market here in NJ. They all said the same thing. The houses that are
selling are the ones that are in really good condition and are
priced right. Get other opinions, but your friends are probably
going to have to do the repairs and some upgrades that they failed
to do while living there. The other option is a ridiculously low
selling price.

It's very hard to answer this kind of question without actually seeing
how the house presents itself. In general, I'd say do the wood floor
refinishing because it's relatively quick and inexpensive and will
stand out. I'd also replace the basement ceiling for the same
reason.

Exactly, and I can't see replaced those tiles would cost all that
much, especially when you think what red flags all that water
damage would raise. Refinishing the floors, that's a no-brainer,
call someone and have it taken care of. It's not all that costly.

Kitchen is much more difficult and impossible without seeing it.
Clearly, doing a total remodel of a kitchen is a MAJOR expense. You
can easily spend $25-50K. It has new appliances, new tile floor
already, and it's impossible to evaluate what else is wrong.

From my point of view, chances are pretty good you're not going
to choose the cabinets I would like, so I'd make them presentable.
I would not waste money putting granite tops on questionable
cabinets, I hate when I see that. What a waste of granite.

A fresh coat of paint on the walls would go a long way. Ever see
Designed to Sell? You don't need to do all the things they do, but
you'll see cheap fixes that will make the house much more
appealing.

Without actually seeing the place, my opinion is that you won't get
back 10s of thousands of dollars of fixes. The cheaper fixes could
get you a lot more.

nancy

Listen to the advice of the real estate agent. They know what will sell and
what will not and why.

In sales there is a thing called a "major objection". This is something
wrong with a product which will keep someone from buying. Your agent is
trying to get you to fix everything that potential buyers might object to.

Bill wrote:
Listen to the advice of the real estate agent. They know what will sell and
what will not and why.
....

That's good up to a point--remember the agent doesn't really care that
much about your bottom line; all they're _really_ after is a quicker
sale. Consequently, they're more than willing for you to spend money
that won't actually get returned to you simply to make the property more
attractive. So, it's a tradeoff between what is cost effective versus
time to judge what is best overall.

The most cost-effective are the cosmetics that aren't particularly
expensive and certainly anything that is actually a real eyesore such as
the wet/damaged ceiling tile.

Major remodeling efforts otoh, are quite unlikely to actually bring in
more than their investment cost unless truly extensive to bring the
house fully into a modern style and then it may require more return than
what other houses in the neighborhood are bringing.

--

mm wrote:
getting a home ready for sale, how much repair?

I have friends who have to move because the wife needs some place more
accessible.

Their current house is about 50 years old, two adults and two almost
grown children, in good but not great condition, mid-quality house.
Whole-house AC, good sized lot, 3BR but nothing else that's really
fancy. While prices have gone down in some parts of Baltimore, I'm
told that they haven't gone down on the 5 blocks around this house,
because all the houses are well taken care off, inhabited by owners,
all the yards look very nice, and it's tucked away and gets almost no
traffic, while still close to shopping and the xway.

How much repair and remodeling is necessary or advisable to get the
best net price for the house?

Is it better to spend 10,000 (or maybe thousands more than that) on
repairs for a house that may sell for 300,000, or 350 or to take
10,000** off the price and let the buyers do the repairs/remodeling
with that money and get exactly what they want? Also with the
economy, wouldn't some potential buyers rather buy a house that's
cheaper, and gradually do the repairs?

**Or take even more than the cost of fixing it up, take 15 or 20,000
off the price because doing all this will be an enormous headache for
all who live their now, three of the four work more than full time, 6
days a week, plus two of them have big allergies to dust, as from
sanding the dining room floor or scraping paint. And they are
supposed to close on their "new" but old house on 9/23, and of course
they'd like to have their old one sold by then.

Then the new owners could do all the repairs and remodeling before
they move in, while the house is vacant. My friends the sellers
could further discount the house to pay the buyer's extra cost for
having two homes for one or two months.

One real estate agent recommends fixing everything.

The dining room floor has a big rug in the middle, but the finish
underneath is very worn and needs sanding and finishing. But maybe
the new owners will put in wall-to-wall carpeting there and don't care
what the wood looks like. Maybe they'd rather have 1000 dollars to do
other things than refinish a floor they'll never see.

The finished basemeent family room has 9x9 inch acoustic ceiling
tiles, a few of which are damaged, some just a little and 4 a lot and
4 water damaged. The REAgent recommends replacing the whole ceiling,
probably 1000 dollars. Someone suggested painting it, costs much
less, but might look bad and won't fix the broken tiles.

Remodelling the kitchen and at least one bathroom. Versus just
removing the wall paper from one wall in the kitchen. Kitchen has
new appliances, new ceramic tile on floor and backsplash, and new
ceramic tile on counters, but still looks old-fashioned. REAgent
wants to redo the whole thing and the bathrooms.

Putting aluminum siding over what I'm told is asphalt tile, about 12
inches by 16 inches, in good condition but old-fashioned, on two or
three outside walls, except for the wall facing the street. Owner was
told that asphalt tiles are much better insulation than the
replacement will be, but putting the siding on while the asphalt tiles
are still there is very difficult. Holes have to be drilled, because
he says nails won't go through the tile.



A couple more detail questions in posts to follow.

Thanks a lot.



My experience with selling/buying several houses over the years.
Fixing up things helps you sell the house but does not necessarily raise
the selling price much if at all. If it needs a lot of basic stuff like
carpet, paint etc then that will help you get up to the market value.
You be lucky to break even on the expenses. If you spend $5K putting in
new windows you can't automatically raise the selling price by $5K.

Kevin

"Mike Dobony" wrote in message
If asbestos you need an approved hazmat handler to remove it and
put it in labeled plastic bags and take them to the city dump.


You can DIY it in most places. I reasereched th at some months ago.

clipped


FIX EVERYTHING! 90% of buyers want a home in move in perfect
condition, they will change whatever later.....

the 90% dont want the hassles, expenses, of fixing stuff.

do everything in clean neutral colors, like white which makes rooms
look larger.

invest a few hundred bucks in a home inspection, and fix the laundry
list they will find.

this is better than their home inspoector scaring off the buyer.....

if you dont fix up the home 90% wouldnt be interested, depressing
price a LOT......

and adding a lot of time till its sold

been there done all this.........


I disagree, but have only sold one home. Mine had a small leak in the
roof and a bulging corner on the sheath under
it. Not very old home - less than 20 yr. All systems sound, tired
looking paint and carpet. Ready to live in. Took
a month to sell at a good price.

Personally, I'm very leery of an older home with a lot of recent work
because it makes me wonder what the
seller is trying to hide.

The damaged acoustic tile and the wallpaper should go. Given the
sellers work schedules and health issues,
I would try to replace the worst of the acoustic tiles. The whole
ceiling and the wood panelling would
probably be on the "replace list" for next buyer. Or they might just
rip it out.

From what I have read, new kitchens don't bring a great return. For
sure, remove the outdated wallpaper,
remove clutter, clean up the yard ..... trim shrubs, take care of bad
problems, mulch beds and make it look
neat. Be sure elect., plumbing, heating systems are in good shape.

Depending on the local market, a sound home in need of modernizing might
be perfect. With all the downturns
and job losses, someone might be thrilled to have a lower-cost home
without all modern features. I don't know
about the siding - pix might help.

When I sold my home, I kept bringing up issues with my realtor, who said
"Don't worry about it." She was right.

Also, with a set closing date for the new home, if this one does not
sell the seller may not want any added debt
from major projects like kitchen or bath remodel.

In article SsP7k.437$t2.377@trndny06, Edwin Pawlowski says...


"Mike Dobony" wrote in message
If asbestos you need an approved hazmat handler to remove it and
put it in labeled plastic bags and take them to the city dump.


You can DIY it in most places. I reasereched th at some months ago.


BTDT code on this varies greatly. I'd leave alone - asbestos siding is common
and no threat if it's left in place.

Banty

dpb wrote:

Bill wrote:

Listen to the advice of the real estate agent. They know what will
sell and what will not and why.

...

That's good up to a point--remember the agent doesn't really care that
much about your bottom line; all they're _really_ after is a quicker
sale. Consequently, they're more than willing for you to spend money
that won't actually get returned to you simply to make the property
more attractive. So, it's a tradeoff between what is cost effective
versus time to judge what is best overall.

The agent wants a higher selling price - could care less what the return
for the seller is.


The most cost-effective are the cosmetics that aren't particularly
expensive and certainly anything that is actually a real eyesore such
as the wet/damaged ceiling tile.

Major remodeling efforts otoh, are quite unlikely to actually bring in
more than their investment cost unless truly extensive to bring the
house fully into a modern style and then it may require more return
than what other houses in the neighborhood are bringing.

--

In article , Norminn says...

clipped


FIX EVERYTHING! 90% of buyers want a home in move in perfect
condition, they will change whatever later.....

the 90% dont want the hassles, expenses, of fixing stuff.

do everything in clean neutral colors, like white which makes rooms
look larger.

invest a few hundred bucks in a home inspection, and fix the laundry
list they will find.

this is better than their home inspoector scaring off the buyer.....

if you dont fix up the home 90% wouldnt be interested, depressing
price a LOT......

and adding a lot of time till its sold

been there done all this.........


I disagree, but have only sold one home. Mine had a small leak in the
roof and a bulging corner on the sheath under
it. Not very old home - less than 20 yr. All systems sound, tired
looking paint and carpet. Ready to live in. Took
a month to sell at a good price.

Personally, I'm very leery of an older home with a lot of recent work
because it makes me wonder what the
seller is trying to hide.

The damaged acoustic tile and the wallpaper should go. Given the
sellers work schedules and health issues,
I would try to replace the worst of the acoustic tiles. The whole
ceiling and the wood panelling would
probably be on the "replace list" for next buyer. Or they might just
rip it out.

From what I have read, new kitchens don't bring a great return. For
sure, remove the outdated wallpaper,
remove clutter, clean up the yard ..... trim shrubs, take care of bad
problems, mulch beds and make it look
neat. Be sure elect., plumbing, heating systems are in good shape.

Depending on the local market, a sound home in need of modernizing might
be perfect. With all the downturns
and job losses, someone might be thrilled to have a lower-cost home
without all modern features. I don't know
about the siding - pix might help.

When I sold my home, I kept bringing up issues with my realtor, who said
"Don't worry about it." She was right.


This is just the kind of market difference I'm talking about. Since we're
talking NE U.S. city, my bet is much more with what Normin says.

Many people want something livable, but not necessarily perfect. They can live
with someone else's carpet if it's clean, a somewhat scratched hardwood floor if
it's not like a huge pet damage problem, an older kitchen, even a wet basement
(I did) while they do the fixes bit by bit. In which case - pay attention to the
mechanicals. The friends in question may or may not be in a market like that.

Banty

"Norminn" wrote

FIX EVERYTHING! 90% of buyers want a home in move in perfect
condition, they will change whatever later.....

I disagree, but have only sold one home. Mine had a small leak in the
roof and a bulging corner on the sheath under
it. Not very old home - less than 20 yr. All systems sound, tired
looking paint and carpet. Ready to live in. Took
a month to sell at a good price.

Personally, I'm very leery of an older home with a lot of recent work
because it makes me wonder what the
seller is trying to hide.

I'm with you Norminn. The realtor will happily tell you to put 50,000$ into
a kitchen remodel so the sales price is 10,000$ more as they get a bigger
commision. It is irrlevant to them if the fixes cost more than the net
gain. They *only* care about a higher sales price with a reasonably fast
turnaround.

2 Cases in point:

Local friends both.

Joe fell for this and dumped close to 20,000$ in various things into his
house. Joe was dumb. Top price in area was for a 4 BR 2 bath at 165,000$.
His is a 3 BR 1.5 bath. His top price would be 140,000$ maybe 145,000$.
Realtor told him if he put in the 20,000$ he'd get the 145,000$ but he
didnt. 9 months on the market, he had to reduce the price to 134,000$ which
is what he'd have gotten if all he did was cut the grass. The house sat
empty all that time costing him money.

Jim was smart. He dumped the realtors that high-pressure sell only that
way. His house is 3 doors away from Joe's. It sold in 3 weeks. He cut the
grass and put in some nice looking and easy to maintain bedding plants. He
painted the 3 rooms that needed it and put in a new screen door. He spent
about 1,000$ in minor 'stuff' plus the screen door, paint, and plants. He
asked for 139,000$ then settled for 135,000$ when the inspector tagged a few
things (all fairly minor) and he worked out what it would cost with the
buyer then took that off the price. It was mostly things like my house has
and which Joe's had.

The buyers were very aware that Jim was asking for less than the top dollar
for his area and was willing to work with them. That made all the
difference.

On Jun 23, 2:32*am, mm wrote:
getting a home ready for sale, how much repair?

I have friends who have to move because the wife needs some place more
accessible.

Their current house is about 50 years old, two adults and two almost
grown children, in good but not great condition, mid-quality house.
Whole-house AC, good sized lot, 3BR but nothing else that's really
fancy. *While prices have gone down in some parts of Baltimore, I'm
told that they haven't gone down on the 5 blocks around this house,
because all the houses are well taken care off, inhabited by owners,
all the yards look very nice, and it's tucked away and gets almost no
traffic, while still close to shopping and the xway.

How much repair and remodeling is necessary or advisable to get the
best net price for the house?

Is it better to spend 10,000 (or maybe thousands more than that) on
repairs for a house that may sell for 300,000, or 350 or to take
10,000** off the price and let the buyers do the repairs/remodeling
with that money and get exactly what they want? *Also with the
economy, wouldn't some potential buyers rather buy a house that's
cheaper, and gradually do the repairs?

**Or take even more than the cost of fixing it up, take 15 or 20,000
off the price because doing all this will be an enormous headache for
all who live their now, three of the four work more than full time, 6
days a week, plus two of them have big allergies to dust, as from
sanding the dining room floor or scraping paint. *And they are
supposed to close on their "new" but old house on 9/23, and of course
they'd like to have their old one sold by then.

Then the new owners could do all the repairs and remodeling before
they move in, while the house is vacant. * My friends the sellers
could further discount the house to pay the buyer's extra cost for
having two homes for one or two months.

One real estate agent recommends fixing everything.

The dining room floor has a big rug in the middle, but the finish
underneath is very worn and needs sanding and finishing. * But maybe
the new owners will put in wall-to-wall carpeting there and don't care
what the wood looks like. *Maybe they'd rather have 1000 dollars to do
other things than refinish a floor they'll never see.

The finished basemeent family room has 9x9 inch acoustic ceiling
tiles, a few of which are damaged, some just a little and 4 a lot and
4 water damaged. *The REAgent recommends replacing the whole ceiling,
probably 1000 dollars. *Someone suggested painting it, costs much
less, but might look bad and won't fix the broken tiles.

Remodelling the kitchen and at least one bathroom. * Versus just
removing the wall paper from one wall in the kitchen. * Kitchen has
new appliances, new ceramic tile on floor and backsplash, and new
ceramic tile on counters, but still looks old-fashioned. *REAgent
wants to redo the whole thing and the bathrooms.

Putting aluminum siding over what I'm told is asphalt tile, about 12
inches by 16 inches, in good condition but old-fashioned, on two or
three outside walls, except for the wall facing the street. *Owner was
told that asphalt tiles are much better insulation than the
replacement will be, but putting the siding on while the asphalt tiles
are still there is very difficult. *Holes have to be drilled, because
he says nails won't go through the tile.

A couple more detail questions in posts to follow.

Thanks a lot.

In general, do all of the maintenance items -- you know, the things
your wife has been nagging you about. If your wife doesn't like it,
the next guy's won't either. Do the floor and the ceiling tiles.
Counters and tops are a matter of taste, so just make sure they are in
good condition.

Leave the shingles. As mentioned, what you described is asbestos
(hard and brittle) not asphalt (soft and pliable). Make sure it's in
good shape. Get a binding agent and paint it so it looks sharp.

Paint, paint, paint.
Fix, fix, fix.

clipped


The buyers were very aware that Jim was asking for less than the top dollar
for his area and was willing to work with them. That made all the
difference.




I would almost rather starve than make a living selling anything. I
hate high pressure sales. A good
realtor or salesperson will match the right person with the right
product. The OP describes a home
that, if it has sound basics, would be great for someone who either is
starting out and somewhat handy,
or who has had to move out of a home they could not afford. I hate the
thought of spending thousands
and thousands of dollars on stuff the next homeowner would not have
chosen. I would take down
all the dated decorations, take care of signs of neglect, if any, tidy
up and hope to move it. Reducing
the price, if needed for quicker sale, is a lot easier if the seller
hasn't just sunk $20K to make it move
fast.

My hubby is a sucker ffor sales pitches and cold calls. He arranged a
sales call for a guy selling $2K
vacuum cleaners. Really nice salesman. He did the usual white filter
trick on his dream machine to show
how much dirt his vacuum got that had been left in the carpet by my 40
y/o Electrolux. I asked him
for a clean filter, which he gave me. I then ran the Electrolux where
he had just cleaned with his
super machine. Guess what.........) The filter was just as dirty.
We spent the $2K to rip out the
carpet and put down tile )

POSTERS HERE are into home remodeling and likely enjoy the challenge.

many new homebuyers have sunk ALL their money in whatever they are
buying, and are scared of unexpected expenses when remodeling.

as we all know extra might as well stuff comes up... along with some
serious issues that MUST BE FIXED.

thats why 90% of the general public want a move in condition home..

and the home inspectors just make things worse every little detail
turns into a scary event for the buyer, and frustration for the
seller.

I sold a home about 4 years ago,,,,,,,,, been there done this

Norminn wrote:
dpb wrote:

Bill wrote:

Listen to the advice of the real estate agent. They know what will
sell and what will not and why.

...

That's good up to a point--remember the agent doesn't really care that
much about your bottom line; all they're _really_ after is a quicker
sale. Consequently, they're more than willing for you to spend money
that won't actually get returned to you simply to make the property
more attractive. So, it's a tradeoff between what is cost effective
versus time to judge what is best overall.

The agent wants a higher selling price - could care less what the return
for the seller is.

"...remember the agent doesn't really care that much about your bottom
line; ..."

Isn't that what I just got through saying?

IMO most agents are still more interested in more commissions (sales)
than a (very) slightly higher commission on fewer, particularly w/
mid-level properties. The difference in commission on a $20/30k premium
just isn't so significant compared to getting the base commission
earlier and moving on. If the seller chooses to do more it doesn't
really hurt, but beyond the time frame, the increase in asking price is
really a second-order effect.

Talk about $1M+ properties where could be $500k price differential, then
the dynamics begin to change...the extra cash is enough to be worth
waiting around a while for.

--

dpb wrote:

Norminn wrote:

dpb wrote:

Bill wrote:

Listen to the advice of the real estate agent. They know what will
sell and what will not and why.


...

That's good up to a point--remember the agent doesn't really care
that much about your bottom line; all they're _really_ after is a
quicker sale. Consequently, they're more than willing for you to
spend money that won't actually get returned to you simply to make
the property more attractive. So, it's a tradeoff between what is
cost effective versus time to judge what is best overall.


The agent wants a higher selling price - could care less what the
return for the seller is.


"...remember the agent doesn't really care that much about your bottom
line; ..."

Isn't that what I just got through saying?

Well, sort of. Not quite.

IMO most agents are still more interested in more commissions (sales)
than a (very) slightly higher commission on fewer, particularly w/
mid-level properties. The difference in commission on a $20/30k
premium just isn't so significant compared to getting the base
commission earlier and moving on. If the seller chooses to do more it
doesn't really hurt, but beyond the time frame, the increase in asking
price is really a second-order effect.

Talk about $1M+ properties where could be $500k price differential,
then the dynamics begin to change...the extra cash is enough to be
worth waiting around a while for.

--

If the OP puts 60k into the house, raising the sale price by 40k, the
six-percent commission goes up by $2400. The seller might be out $20k,
if my math is right. $2400 is not peanuts where I live. Plus any
kickbacks from contractor arrangements. The realtors in my area were
howling to the high heavens when the condo boom slammed to a stop.
'Twas music to my ears.. I beleive a few starved to death, but they
might have found an attorney's corpse to cannibalize )

On 23 Jun 2008 10:02:56 -0700, Banty wrote:


Depending on the local market, a sound home in need of modernizing might
be perfect. With all the downturns
and job losses, someone might be thrilled to have a lower-cost home
without all modern features. I don't know
about the siding - pix might help.

When I sold my home, I kept bringing up issues with my realtor, who said
"Don't worry about it." She was right.


This is just the kind of market difference I'm talking about. Since we're
talking NE U.S. city, my bet is much more with what Normin says.

Many people want something livable, but not necessarily perfect. They can live
with someone else's carpet if it's clean, a somewhat scratched hardwood floor if
it's not like a huge pet damage problem, an older kitchen, even a wet basement
(I did) while they do the fixes bit by bit. In which case - pay attention to the
mechanicals. The friends in question may or may not be in a market like that.

Banty

So many helpful answers, I can't answer them all. Thank you all.

I was thinking maybe they should start showing their home early, when
they haven't finished, or even maybe started their fix-up projects.

Then the people who want that kind of house can come now, and if no
one buys, it will be fixed up in 8 weeks or so.

On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 15:23:13 -0400, Norminn
wrote:



I would almost rather starve than make a living selling anything. I
hate high pressure sales. A good
realtor or salesperson will match the right person with the right
product. The OP describes a home
that, if it has sound basics, would be great for someone who either is
starting out and somewhat handy,
or who has had to move out of a home they could not afford. I hate the
thought of spending thousands
and thousands of dollars on stuff the next homeowner would not have
chosen.

That's the way I feel. And I've heard a story about one family that
redid the whole kitchen to make the house look good. The new owners
ripped it all out and put in a second new kitchen.

If I bought a house that had been remodeled, I would live with
whatever they did, even if I didn't like it much, because I couldn't
bear to spend all that money to rip out good stuff just so I could
have something a little better. (and maybe not even that, because I
might change my mind.)

I would take down
all the dated decorations, take care of signs of neglect, if any, tidy
up and hope to move it. Reducing
the price, if needed for quicker sale, is a lot easier if the seller
hasn't just sunk $20K to make it move
fast.

That too.

My hubby is a sucker ffor sales pitches and cold calls. He arranged a
sales call for a guy selling $2K
vacuum cleaners. Really nice salesman. He did the usual white filter
trick on his dream machine to show
how much dirt his vacuum got that had been left in the carpet by my 40
y/o Electrolux. I asked him
for a clean filter, which he gave me. I then ran the Electrolux where
he had just cleaned with his
super machine. Guess what.........) The filter was just as dirty.
We spent the $2K to rip out the
carpet and put down tile )

Is this called irony?

On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 13:20:00 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

POSTERS HERE are into home remodeling and likely enjoy the challenge.

many new homebuyers have sunk ALL their money in whatever they are
buying, and are scared of unexpected expenses when remodeling.

And another good point.

as we all know extra might as well stuff comes up... along with some
serious issues that MUST BE FIXED.

thats why 90% of the general public want a move in condition home..

and the home inspectors just make things worse every little detail
turns into a scary event for the buyer, and frustration for the
seller.

I sold a home about 4 years ago,,,,,,,,, been there done this

I hear people getting their house prepared to sell. Very little
repair is done as these homes were not severely neglected. Reduction
of clutter and paint seem to be on the top of the list. Most buyers
will leave if they find a leaky/damaged roof, musty/mold/pet smell, un
kept lawn, dirty house, broken windows, etc. Of course you can do
absolutely nothing in preparation and keep lowering the price until it
sells. A real estate person will provide free and useful tips that is
geared to your area and he/she wants your house to sell quickly and
generally at a high price. A fixer-upper can be attractive to
first-time buyers or a construction company. Homes are not selling
well in most of the United States at this time, it is a buyers market.
Good luck!

"mm" wrote in message
...
getting a home ready for sale, how much repair?



[snip]

Your goal is to sell the house at or near the asking price, in as short a
time as possible. Fix anything that is broken or rotted. It's partially a
matter of first impressions, or comparisons between this house and others.
You should want your house to be the best of those being sold in the same
price range, and so you have to walk a line between leaving a bad impression
and over-improving your house. If you put obstacles in the way of the sale,
within a few weeks the agent will want to reduce the price or offer other
incentives to buyers in order to recreate interest in the house.

Buyers assume that an owner has made efforts to fix anything broken; visible
damage leads to the conclusion that there is a lot of hidden damage -- even
if the visible problems are minor. Most homeowners know implicitly that a
repair project often uncovers further problems and repairs rarely come in
under estimate. You don't want potential buyers walking through and
thinking, "I'll have to replace those cabinets, that countertop, that
refrigerator" or "Those watermarks on the ceiling tile mean that the roof
also leaks. That's a major expense that will have to come off the offering
price."

The broken ceiling tile needs to be replaced -- if the new ones are obvious,
the whole ceiling should be replaced. If the roof leaks, fix it and make
sure the new shingles blend in with the old. Check around outdoor moldings,
especially around the garage door. The bottom of the door trim is likely to
be rotten and should be replaced. The impression you want to leave with the
potential buyer is that the present owner is fastidious and doesn't get
behind in getting repairs accomplished.

If possible, move out before putting the house on the market, then repaint
and stage the house. It's a lot easier to make repairs at this time, with
no furniture in the way.

Three suggestions for your friends: (1) Get your own home inspection by a
qualified inspector, who will probably find things you hadn't thought about.
Don't argue with his/her report, because a potential buyer is going to get
similar information. (2) Walk through the house with a still camera and
take pictures of every room. Instead of looking at the house, look at the
pictures, really closely. The pictures are going to show you things that
need repairs or replacing, that you otherwise would just walk by. (3) Find
a few other houses like this one that are on the market, and walk through
them. This house has to look better than any of them.

Selling fast and at a good price requires an investment in marketing the
house -- especially in this market.

Norminn wrote:

If the OP puts 60k into the house, raising the sale price by 40k, the
six-percent commission goes up by $2400. The seller might be out
$20k, if my math is right. $2400 is not peanuts where I live.

The way the commission generally works, the agent gets
a quarter of that amount. It's divided between the listing
agent, selling broker, selling agent/broker. I might not be
perfectly correct, but that's the general idea. The agent
would walk away with a few hundred dollars.

nancy

On Jun 23, 6:10*pm, mm wrote:
On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 15:23:13 -0400, Norminn
wrote:



I would almost rather starve than make a living selling anything. *I
hate high pressure sales. *A good
realtor or salesperson will match the right person with the right
product. *The OP describes a home
that, if it has sound basics, would be great for someone who either is
starting out and somewhat handy,
or who has had to move out of a home they could not afford. *I hate the
thought of spending thousands
and thousands of dollars on stuff the next homeowner would not have
chosen. *

That's the way I feel. *And I've heard a story about one family that
redid the whole kitchen to make the house look good. *The new owners
ripped it all out and put in a second new kitchen.

If I bought a house that had been remodeled, I would live with
whatever they did, even if I didn't like it much, because I couldn't
bear to spend all that money to rip out good stuff just so I could
have something a little better. (and maybe not even that, because I
might change my mind.)


Then, how about this? Down the street from my house, a developer
built a small new sub-division of 6 houses that sold for $1mil+. The
lots, while very nice, are certainly not unique, not waterfront,
etc. Well, the last house he had built was close to completion. It
had completed roof, windows, siding, stone work around entrance, etc.
Inside, it was waiting for selection of flooring, bath/kitchen
fixtures, etc.

So, I drive by a few months later and the house looked like it had
been blown apart. Roof, windows, siding, doors, porch, etc ALL
GONE. I honestly thought they must have built it on a sink hole or
something and had to tear it down. I asked a neighbor what was going
on and he told me that it was sold and the new buyer was remodeling
it. Almost a year later, and it's totally different and still not
finished. They turned it into a cold grey stucco monstrosity that
doesn't fit in with any of the other 5 houses. It now includes
great features like what appears to be a balcony off the Master suite
with see-through glass instead of railings. That could be nice, but
why would you have the MB balcony face the street? LOL

On Jun 23, 10:45*pm, "Nancy Young" wrote:
Norminn wrote:
If the OP puts 60k into the house, raising the sale price by 40k, the
six-percent commission goes up by $2400. *The seller might be out
$20k, if my math is right. *$2400 is not peanuts where I live.

The way the commission generally works, the agent gets
a quarter of that amount. *It's divided between the listing
agent, selling broker, selling agent/broker. *I might not be
perfectly correct, but that's the general idea. *The agent
would walk away with a few hundred dollars.

nancy

Yes and DPB is right. With the type of flat percentage compensation
plan real estate agents have, the goal is to get the deal done quickly
and with the least effort. If you do the math, having someone put
10% of the selling price in upgrades into a house, doesn't make that
much difference in their cut to make it worth while. But if those
upgrades make the house sell quickly, that is of great benefit.

Also, here's another factor. Let's say the agent tells the
prospective seller that they should do major renovation before putting
it on the market. In that situation, if the seller takes the
advice, they are likely NOT going to list the house right away.
Instead, they are going to do the work, then list it. That could
take months and during that time, another agent, buyer, etc could come
along and the first agent loses the deal.

wrote:
On Jun 23, 10:45 pm, "Nancy Young" wrote:
Norminn wrote:
If the OP puts 60k into the house, raising the sale price by 40k,
the six-percent commission goes up by $2400. The seller might be out
$20k, if my math is right. $2400 is not peanuts where I live.

The way the commission generally works, the agent gets
a quarter of that amount. It's divided between the listing
agent, listing (fixed mistake) broker, selling agent/broker.
I might not be perfectly correct, but that's the general idea.
The agent would walk away with a few hundred dollars.

Yes and DPB is right. With the type of flat percentage compensation
plan real estate agents have, the goal is to get the deal done quickly
and with the least effort. If you do the math, having someone put
10% of the selling price in upgrades into a house, doesn't make that
much difference in their cut to make it worth while. But if those
upgrades make the house sell quickly, that is of great benefit.

I agree with you there. It might even be worth the 10G to the owner
just to sell fast. I can see that, no problem. I was just saying, the
commission difference is probably not as much for the agent as one
might think.

Also, here's another factor. Let's say the agent tells the
prospective seller that they should do major renovation before putting
it on the market. In that situation, if the seller takes the
advice, they are likely NOT going to list the house right away.
Instead, they are going to do the work, then list it. That could
take months and during that time, another agent, buyer, etc could come
along and the first agent loses the deal.

That's very true. Good point.

nancy

clipped


So, I drive by a few months later and the house looked like it had
been blown apart. Roof, windows, siding, doors, porch, etc ALL
GONE. I honestly thought they must have built it on a sink hole or
something and had to tear it down. I asked a neighbor what was going
on and he told me that it was sold and the new buyer was remodeling
it. Almost a year later, and it's totally different and still not
finished. They turned it into a cold grey stucco monstrosity that
doesn't fit in with any of the other 5 houses. It now includes
great features like what appears to be a balcony off the Master suite
with see-through glass instead of railings. That could be nice, but
why would you have the MB balcony face the street? LOL



Lots and lots of people with lots of money, no brains or taste. Load of
properties around us
are million-plus, nice older ranches on the water. Many of them have
been torn down and replaced
by McMansions - three story monsters up to the property line. All look
as if window/door/trim
choices were one of everythin in the catalog. Butt ugly. Just
recently, the neighborhood association
was up in arms because someone wanted to get rid of restrictions for
docking boats on the
channel - someone wanted to dock a NINETY FOOT BOAT. NIMBY! 40' is
pretty high-end )
Of course, it could be an ancient fishing trawler - one sank in the
channel couple of years ago )

mm wrote:
getting a home ready for sale, how much repair?

I have friends who have to move because the wife needs some place more
accessible.

Their current house is about 50 years old, two adults and two almost
grown children, in good but not great condition, mid-quality house.
Whole-house AC, good sized lot, 3BR but nothing else that's really
fancy. While prices have gone down in some parts of Baltimore, I'm
told that they haven't gone down on the 5 blocks around this house,
because all the houses are well taken care off, inhabited by owners,
all the yards look very nice, and it's tucked away and gets almost no
traffic, while still close to shopping and the xway.

I'm selling a row house in that general area. I think how much
updating/repairing needed depends in part on what the neighbors have
done. One thing I discovered when I started reading the listings of
other houses in my neighborhood was that the descriptions were almost
cookie cutter - "new kitchen, freshly painted, new carpet or refinished
floors". I pretty much had to do that to be competitive... or I'd have
had to list at a lot less. It also depends on the type of neighborhood
and what type of people they expect to buy the house. Many people moving
to my neighborhood are just starting out and don't have the money to do
that type of upgrades. Plus most would be moving from an apt or a
smaller house and not have the money to live in the old house while
fixing a new one (and most likely need the money from the sale of #1 to
buy #2). OTOH, the neighborhood I moved to is a step above that and more
desirable in general, so the owners there don't do as much because
buyers are interested in the location. This may be where talking to
agents would help the most - telling them what the "norm" is in that
neighborhood and what buyers are likely to expect or be attracted to.

I recently sold my mother's house and one thing I learned doing that
(and talking to others) is that buyers will want a discount for any
perceived imperfection, even if the seller has already taken them into
consideration when setting the price.

Suggestions for the friends. Talk to other agents and see if they get
the same recommendations over and over. Go to open houses in the
surrounding areas and see what the competition is doing. Subscribe to
some of the online real estate websites that will let them monitor
houses being listed in the area so they can see what's being advertised.
Maybe find a more home selling specific audience to ask. One that I've
found helpful is the HGTV.com's message boards. The friends could post a
link there to photos of the house and get other people's reactions and
free (for what it's worth G) advice. I've seen people get some really
helpful input there, and often for things that don't require a lot of
money, like what color to paint a room, or ideas on curb appeal.