This is a serious question, not a troll or a trick, as I really don't
know the answer to this: what's the difference between primer and
"regular" paint?

First of all, some ground rules: I'm hoping to get answers from someone
who actually knows what they're talking about (any paint chemists out
there? or at least someone familiar with the inside of the paint
industry), rather than the usual speculation. Therefore, any answers
from "hallerb" or "ransley" will be politely ignored.

If someone forced me to explain the difference, my answer would be
something like, "Well, duuuh, I think primer has more solids or
something; or it's made to stick better. Yeah, that's the ticket--it's
stickier!" Obviously, no definitive understanding of really what primer
is and why we're 'spozed to use it.

Extra credit for answers to the following:

o Actual differences between oil-based primer (which I intuitively
consider to be better without really understanding why) and water-based
(latex, acrylic, etc.) primer.

o Are there any paints made today which can be considered "self-priming"
and which do not require primer?

The assumption is that we're talking about painting wood products here,
not speciality paints like for metal or other materials.

Your explanation of this matter, which is kind of like the eternal
debate over WD-40 (what it is and isn't and why it's no good for
anything) will be greatly appreciated.

On Jun 19, 2:23*pm, David Nebenzahl wrote:
This is a serious question, not a troll or a trick, as I really don't
know the answer to this: what's the difference between primer and
"regular" paint?

First of all, some ground rules: I'm hoping to get answers from someone
who actually knows what they're talking about (any paint chemists out
there? or at least someone familiar with the inside of the paint
industry), rather than the usual speculation. Therefore, any answers
from "hallerb" or "ransley" will be politely ignored.

If someone forced me to explain the difference, my answer would be
something like, "Well, duuuh, I think primer has more solids or
something; or it's made to stick better. Yeah, that's the ticket--it's
stickier!" Obviously, no definitive understanding of really what primer
is and why we're 'spozed to use it.

Extra credit for answers to the following:

o Actual differences between oil-based primer (which I intuitively
consider to be better without really understanding why) and water-based
(latex, acrylic, etc.) primer.

o Are there any paints made today which can be considered "self-priming"
and which do not require primer?

The assumption is that we're talking about painting wood products here,
not speciality paints like for metal or other materials.

Your explanation of this matter, which is kind of like the eternal
debate over WD-40 (what it is and isn't and why it's no good for
anything) will be greatly appreciated.

I painted professionaly for about 15 years with a crew of 10 but im no
chemist and you dont want to hear what I know as fact.

I painted professionaly for about 15 years with a crew of 10 but im no
chemist and you dont want to hear what I know as fact.

-----------------------

Oh don't be so touchy. He isn't being a jerk, he just doesn't know any
better.

Ransley
I have been a painting contractor for over 40 years had crews of over 50
workers
the O P ****ed me off too
ASK SHERWIN WILLIAM'S... snicker
"ransley" wrote in message
...
On Jun 19, 2:23 pm, David Nebenzahl wrote:
This is a serious question, not a troll or a trick, as I really don't
know the answer to this: what's the difference between primer and
"regular" paint?

First of all, some ground rules: I'm hoping to get answers from someone
who actually knows what they're talking about (any paint chemists out
there? or at least someone familiar with the inside of the paint
industry), rather than the usual speculation. Therefore, any answers
from "hallerb" or "ransley" will be politely ignored.

If someone forced me to explain the difference, my answer would be
something like, "Well, duuuh, I think primer has more solids or
something; or it's made to stick better. Yeah, that's the ticket--it's
stickier!" Obviously, no definitive understanding of really what primer
is and why we're 'spozed to use it.

Extra credit for answers to the following:

o Actual differences between oil-based primer (which I intuitively
consider to be better without really understanding why) and water-based
(latex, acrylic, etc.) primer.

o Are there any paints made today which can be considered "self-priming"
and which do not require primer?

The assumption is that we're talking about painting wood products here,
not speciality paints like for metal or other materials.

Your explanation of this matter, which is kind of like the eternal
debate over WD-40 (what it is and isn't and why it's no good for
anything) will be greatly appreciated.

I painted professionaly for about 15 years with a crew of 10 but im no
chemist and you dont want to hear what I know as fact.

David Nebenzahl wrote:
This is a serious question, not a troll or a trick, as I really don't
know the answer to this: what's the difference between primer and
"regular" paint?

First of all, some ground rules: I'm hoping to get answers from someone
who actually knows what they're talking about (any paint chemists out
there? or at least someone familiar with the inside of the paint
industry), rather than the usual speculation. Therefore, any answers
from "hallerb" or "ransley" will be politely ignored.

If someone forced me to explain the difference, my answer would be
something like, "Well, duuuh, I think primer has more solids or
something; or it's made to stick better. Yeah, that's the ticket--it's
stickier!" Obviously, no definitive understanding of really what primer
is and why we're 'spozed to use it.

Extra credit for answers to the following:

o Actual differences between oil-based primer (which I intuitively
consider to be better without really understanding why) and water-based
(latex, acrylic, etc.) primer.

o Are there any paints made today which can be considered "self-priming"
and which do not require primer?

The assumption is that we're talking about painting wood products here,
not speciality paints like for metal or other materials.

Your explanation of this matter, which is kind of like the eternal
debate over WD-40 (what it is and isn't and why it's no good for
anything) will be greatly appreciated.

Awfully demanding for someone who wants free information. For the degree
of details and explanations you require I would suggest hiring a
professional engineer who specializes in chemistry to give you
professional advice.

On Jun 19, 3:23 pm, David Nebenzahl wrote:

First of all, some ground rules: I'm hoping to get answers from someone
who actually knows what they're talking about (any paint chemists out
there? or at least someone familiar with the inside of the paint
industry), rather than the usual speculation. Therefore, any answers
from "hallerb" or "ransley" will be politely ignored.


Well it's really quite simple.

The primer is formulated with a higher molecular density that causes
the end chain atoms to move their valence electrons to the next
orbital level which enhances the strength and number of chemical
bonds, thereby increasing the coefficient of static cohesion by an
order of magnitude.

Actually, I haven't the foggiest idea. When you find out, tell me why
Gojo takes grease off hands but not metal. Probably the same thing
only in reverse.

On 6/19/2008 2:45 PM George spake thus:

David Nebenzahl wrote:
This is a serious question, not a troll or a trick, as I really don't
know the answer to this: what's the difference between primer and
"regular" paint?

First of all, some ground rules: I'm hoping to get answers from someone
who actually knows what they're talking about (any paint chemists out
there? or at least someone familiar with the inside of the paint
industry), rather than the usual speculation. Therefore, any answers
from "hallerb" or "ransley" will be politely ignored.

If someone forced me to explain the difference, my answer would be
something like, "Well, duuuh, I think primer has more solids or
something; or it's made to stick better. Yeah, that's the ticket--it's
stickier!" Obviously, no definitive understanding of really what primer
is and why we're 'spozed to use it.

Awfully demanding for someone who wants free information. For the degree
of details and explanations you require I would suggest hiring a
professional engineer who specializes in chemistry to give you
professional advice.

So you don't think this would be useful information, especially here
where many folks use paint and primer but don't necessarily know *why*?

I guess according to people like you, we should either 1) pay a
professional to get information, 2) use Google, or 3) just STFU, eh? No
need for Usenet in that case ...

Its the way you asked that's important here
STFU if you are getting an attitude
"David Nebenzahl" wrote in message
s.com...
On 6/19/2008 2:45 PM George spake thus:

David Nebenzahl wrote:
This is a serious question, not a troll or a trick, as I really don't
know the answer to this: what's the difference between primer and
"regular" paint?

First of all, some ground rules: I'm hoping to get answers from someone
who actually knows what they're talking about (any paint chemists out
there? or at least someone familiar with the inside of the paint
industry), rather than the usual speculation. Therefore, any answers
from "hallerb" or "ransley" will be politely ignored.

If someone forced me to explain the difference, my answer would be
something like, "Well, duuuh, I think primer has more solids or
something; or it's made to stick better. Yeah, that's the ticket--it's
stickier!" Obviously, no definitive understanding of really what primer
is and why we're 'spozed to use it.

Awfully demanding for someone who wants free information. For the degree
of details and explanations you require I would suggest hiring a
professional engineer who specializes in chemistry to give you
professional advice.

So you don't think this would be useful information, especially here where
many folks use paint and primer but don't necessarily know *why*?

I guess according to people like you, we should either 1) pay a
professional to get information, 2) use Google, or 3) just STFU, eh? No
need for Usenet in that case ...

On Jun 19, 5:18*pm, David Nebenzahl wrote:
On 6/19/2008 2:45 PM George spake thus:



David Nebenzahl wrote:
This is a serious question, not a troll or a trick, as I really don't
know the answer to this: what's the difference between primer and
"regular" paint?

First of all, some ground rules: I'm hoping to get answers from someone
who actually knows what they're talking about (any paint chemists out
there? or at least someone familiar with the inside of the paint
industry), rather than the usual speculation. Therefore, any answers
from "hallerb" or "ransley" will be politely ignored.

If someone forced me to explain the difference, my answer would be
something like, "Well, duuuh, I think primer has more solids or
something; or it's made to stick better. Yeah, that's the ticket--it's
stickier!" Obviously, no definitive understanding of really what primer
is and why we're 'spozed to use it.

Awfully demanding for someone who wants free information. For the degree
of details and explanations you require I would suggest hiring a
professional engineer who specializes in chemistry to give you
professional advice.

So you don't think this would be useful information, especially here
where many folks use paint and primer but don't necessarily know *why*?

I guess according to people like you, we should either 1) pay a
professional to get information, 2) use Google, or 3) just STFU, eh? No
need for Usenet in that case ...

You can use a tinted primer...and you're done! Flat finish though.
Acrylic floor and porch is self-priming (if I remember correctly) on
wood and concrete.

The Reverend Natural Light wrote:
On Jun 19, 3:23 pm, David Nebenzahl wrote:
First of all, some ground rules: I'm hoping to get answers from someone
who actually knows what they're talking about (any paint chemists out
there? or at least someone familiar with the inside of the paint
industry), rather than the usual speculation. Therefore, any answers
from "hallerb" or "ransley" will be politely ignored.


Well it's really quite simple.

The primer is formulated with a higher molecular density that causes
the end chain atoms to move their valence electrons to the next
orbital level which enhances the strength and number of chemical
bonds, thereby increasing the coefficient of static cohesion by an
order of magnitude.

Actually, I haven't the foggiest idea. When you find out, tell me why
Gojo takes grease off hands but not metal. Probably the same thing
only in reverse.


I'm a chemist, but not a paint chemist, and got a kick out of your
explanation. If you had left off the last paragraph, 99% of the group
would not have been any wiser.

Actually the op was kind of lazy and could have googled up something
like this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primer_(paint)

Frank

On Thu, 19 Jun 2008 12:23:08 -0700, David Nebenzahl
wrote:

This is a serious question, not a troll or a trick, as I really don't
know the answer to this: what's the difference between primer and
"regular" paint?

First of all, some ground rules: I'm hoping to get answers from someone
who actually knows what they're talking about (any paint chemists out
there? or at least someone familiar with the inside of the paint
industry), rather than the usual speculation. Therefore, any answers
from "hallerb" or "ransley" will be politely ignored.

If someone forced me to explain the difference, my answer would be
something like, "Well, duuuh, I think primer has more solids or
something; or it's made to stick better. Yeah, that's the ticket--it's
stickier!" Obviously, no definitive understanding of really what primer
is and why we're 'spozed to use it.

Extra credit for answers to the following:

o Actual differences between oil-based primer (which I intuitively
consider to be better without really understanding why) and water-based
(latex, acrylic, etc.) primer.

o Are there any paints made today which can be considered "self-priming"
and which do not require primer?

The assumption is that we're talking about painting wood products here,
not speciality paints like for metal or other materials.



Not a paint chemist, although I do have a college chemistry degree.
Primer leaves an excellent surface which paint will adhere. If you
could prepare a surface by some other means a primer may not be
necessary. I'd prefer an oil-based primer over a water-based, unless
the vapors is an issue. Some paints do not require a primer and
usually will say so on the directions. Milk paint may be applied
directly to bare wood. For other finishing paints on wood, use a wood
primer. Skipping steps, especially preparation, leaves you with a
less satisfactory job. Generally you can get good advise from a paint
store.

On 6/19/2008 3:49 PM Frank spake thus:

Actually the op was kind of lazy and could have googled up something
like this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primer_(paint)

Not lazy; I just know better.

I'd sooner ask ransley or hallerb before consulting Wikipedia, the
"encyclopedia" any high-school or junior-high idiot can (and does) edit.
(Or, worse yet, become an "administrator".)

To be fair though....... Just because you've applied 75,000 gallons of
paint doesn't necessairly mean you know the answer to the question. I
could pump gas into cars for 55 years and still not know how the gasoline is
made.

just a thought. Not trying to throw the gas (that i don't know how's made)
on the fire.


s


"Roemax" wrote in message
news:fgA6k.6652$Mu.3456@trndny07...
Ransley
I have been a painting contractor for over 40 years had crews of over 50
workers
the O P ****ed me off too
ASK SHERWIN WILLIAM'S... snicker
"ransley" wrote in message
...
On Jun 19, 2:23 pm, David Nebenzahl wrote:
This is a serious question, not a troll or a trick, as I really don't
know the answer to this: what's the difference between primer and
"regular" paint?

First of all, some ground rules: I'm hoping to get answers from someone
who actually knows what they're talking about (any paint chemists out
there? or at least someone familiar with the inside of the paint
industry), rather than the usual speculation. Therefore, any answers
from "hallerb" or "ransley" will be politely ignored.

If someone forced me to explain the difference, my answer would be
something like, "Well, duuuh, I think primer has more solids or
something; or it's made to stick better. Yeah, that's the ticket--it's
stickier!" Obviously, no definitive understanding of really what primer
is and why we're 'spozed to use it.

Extra credit for answers to the following:

o Actual differences between oil-based primer (which I intuitively
consider to be better without really understanding why) and water-based
(latex, acrylic, etc.) primer.

o Are there any paints made today which can be considered "self-priming"
and which do not require primer?

The assumption is that we're talking about painting wood products here,
not speciality paints like for metal or other materials.

Your explanation of this matter, which is kind of like the eternal
debate over WD-40 (what it is and isn't and why it's no good for
anything) will be greatly appreciated.

I painted professionaly for about 15 years with a crew of 10 but im no
chemist and you dont want to hear what I know as fact.

David Nebenzahl wrote:

On 6/19/2008 2:45 PM George spake thus:

David Nebenzahl wrote:

This is a serious question, not a troll or a trick, as I really
don't know the answer to this: what's the difference between primer
and "regular" paint?

First of all, some ground rules: I'm hoping to get answers from
someone who actually knows what they're talking about (any paint
chemists out there? or at least someone familiar with the inside of
the paint industry), rather than the usual speculation. Therefore,
any answers from "hallerb" or "ransley" will be politely ignored.

If someone forced me to explain the difference, my answer would be
something like, "Well, duuuh, I think primer has more solids or
something; or it's made to stick better. Yeah, that's the
ticket--it's stickier!" Obviously, no definitive understanding of
really what primer is and why we're 'spozed to use it.


Awfully demanding for someone who wants free information. For the
degree of details and explanations you require I would suggest hiring
a professional engineer who specializes in chemistry to give you
professional advice.


So you don't think this would be useful information, especially here
where many folks use paint and primer but don't necessarily know *why*?

I guess according to people like you, we should either 1) pay a
professional to get information, 2) use Google, or 3) just STFU, eh?
No need for Usenet in that case ...

#2 would be a good choice........I did a search on 'paint chemistry
primer binder pigment adhesion', and got 50,000 hits. There are online
stores selling all the ingredients for making your own paint. They
probably have information as well.

I've tried Joy, Palmolive, Ivory and Dove dishwashing liquids. Dove is
best, IMO. I don't need to know why. I like alkyd semi-gloss paint for
interior woodwork and doors. It is harder, more stain-resistant and
easier to repaint. I don't need to know why. I've got a lot of other
stuff to learn, and my time is limited. If I was looking for a
scientific explanation of anything, it would not be on a newsgroup.
There are lots of smart, experienced and helpful folks here, but it
isn't alt.home,repair.science.chemistry ) And when you rudely point
out that certain parties will be "politely" ignored, well.........go
suck a paintbrush.

On Thu, 19 Jun 2008 14:54:34 -0700, The Reverend Natural Light wrote:

On Jun 19, 3:23 pm, David Nebenzahl wrote:

First of all, some ground rules: I'm hoping to get answers from someone
who actually knows what they're talking about (any paint chemists out
there? or at least someone familiar with the inside of the paint
industry), rather than the usual speculation. Therefore, any answers
from "hallerb" or "ransley" will be politely ignored.


Well it's really quite simple.

The primer is formulated with a higher molecular density that causes
the end chain atoms to move their valence electrons to the next
orbital level which enhances the strength and number of chemical
bonds, thereby increasing the coefficient of static cohesion by an
order of magnitude.

Actually, I haven't the foggiest idea. When you find out, tell me why
Gojo takes grease off hands but not metal. Probably the same thing
only in reverse.

0 50 100
^
/
/
Applause meter

Well done!

On Jun 19, 5:18*pm, David Nebenzahl wrote:
On 6/19/2008 2:45 PM George spake thus:





David Nebenzahl wrote:
This is a serious question, not a troll or a trick, as I really don't
know the answer to this: what's the difference between primer and
"regular" paint?

First of all, some ground rules: I'm hoping to get answers from someone
who actually knows what they're talking about (any paint chemists out
there? or at least someone familiar with the inside of the paint
industry), rather than the usual speculation. Therefore, any answers
from "hallerb" or "ransley" will be politely ignored.

If someone forced me to explain the difference, my answer would be
something like, "Well, duuuh, I think primer has more solids or
something; or it's made to stick better. Yeah, that's the ticket--it's
stickier!" Obviously, no definitive understanding of really what primer
is and why we're 'spozed to use it.

Awfully demanding for someone who wants free information. For the degree
of details and explanations you require I would suggest hiring a
professional engineer who specializes in chemistry to give you
professional advice.

So you don't think this would be useful information, especially here
where many folks use paint and primer but don't necessarily know *why*?

I guess according to people like you, we should either 1) pay a
professional to get information, 2) use Google, or 3) just STFU, eh? No
need for Usenet in that case ...- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yes I know fully why, and it varies product to product and purpose
needed, easily 15 fully different products off the top of my dumb
head. I have been lately using 30 - 50 gal a day spray and roll, on 2
jobs at a time, all different work, commercial and residential,
different substrate, base, prep, and topcoat, some are even needed a
self prime.

On Jun 19, 6:00*pm, David Nebenzahl wrote:
On 6/19/2008 3:49 PM Frank spake thus:

Actually the op was kind of lazy and could have googled up something
like this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primer_(paint)

Not lazy; I just know better.

I'd sooner ask ransley or hallerb before consulting Wikipedia, the
"encyclopedia" any high-school or junior-high idiot can (and does) edit.
(Or, worse yet, become an "administrator".)

Tough one, I know and you dont.

On Jun 19, 2:23*pm, David Nebenzahl wrote:
This is a serious question, not a troll or a trick, as I really don't
know the answer to this: what's the difference between primer and
"regular" paint?

First of all, some ground rules: I'm hoping to get answers from someone
who actually knows what they're talking about (any paint chemists out
there? or at least someone familiar with the inside of the paint
industry), rather than the usual speculation. Therefore, any answers
from "hallerb" or "ransley" will be politely ignored.

If someone forced me to explain the difference, my answer would be
something like, "Well, duuuh, I think primer has more solids or
something; or it's made to stick better. Yeah, that's the ticket--it's
stickier!" Obviously, no definitive understanding of really what primer
is and why we're 'spozed to use it.

Extra credit for answers to the following:

o Actual differences between oil-based primer (which I intuitively
consider to be better without really understanding why) and water-based
(latex, acrylic, etc.) primer.

o Are there any paints made today which can be considered "self-priming"
and which do not require primer?

The assumption is that we're talking about painting wood products here,
not speciality paints like for metal or other materials.

Your explanation of this matter, which is kind of like the eternal
debate over WD-40 (what it is and isn't and why it's no good for
anything) will be greatly appreciated.

And what do you have against Hallerb, he is alot smarter than you
Nebenumnuts

In article m,
David Nebenzahl wrote:

This is a serious question, not a troll or a trick, as I really don't
know the answer to this: what's the difference between primer and
"regular" paint?

First of all, some ground rules: I'm hoping to get answers from someone
who actually knows what they're talking about (any paint chemists out
there? or at least someone familiar with the inside of the paint
industry), rather than the usual speculation. Therefore, any answers
from "hallerb" or "ransley" will be politely ignored.

If someone forced me to explain the difference, my answer would be
something like, "Well, duuuh, I think primer has more solids or
something; or it's made to stick better. Yeah, that's the ticket--it's
stickier!" Obviously, no definitive understanding of really what primer
is and why we're 'spozed to use it.

Extra credit for answers to the following:

o Actual differences between oil-based primer (which I intuitively
consider to be better without really understanding why) and water-based
(latex, acrylic, etc.) primer.

o Are there any paints made today which can be considered "self-priming"
and which do not require primer?

The assumption is that we're talking about painting wood products here,
not speciality paints like for metal or other materials.

Your explanation of this matter, which is kind of like the eternal
debate over WD-40 (what it is and isn't and why it's no good for
anything) will be greatly appreciated.

Since you seem to have annoyed those who might actually know, I'll try
to return the favor by annoying you with my uninformed, wild ass guess:
(my only credentials are that my father was a chemistry professor)

1. Primer is designed to stick to the substrate, but it doesn't provide
a nice finished appearance.

2. Primer and paint are both designed so that paint sticks well to
primer.

3. Paint is designed to give a pleasing and maintainable finished
surface.

This concept is used in other industries, too. A good analogy is
plating. Many metals cannot be brass plated, so they must first be
plated with some other metal, that can then be plated with brass.

RLM wrote in
:

On Thu, 19 Jun 2008 14:54:34 -0700, The Reverend Natural Light wrote:

On Jun 19, 3:23 pm, David Nebenzahl wrote:

First of all, some ground rules: I'm hoping to get answers from
someone who actually knows what they're talking about (any paint
chemists out there? or at least someone familiar with the inside of
the paint industry), rather than the usual speculation. Therefore,
any answers from "hallerb" or "ransley" will be politely ignored.


Well it's really quite simple.

The primer is formulated with a higher molecular density that causes
the end chain atoms to move their valence electrons to the next
orbital level which enhances the strength and number of chemical
bonds, thereby increasing the coefficient of static cohesion by an
order of magnitude.

Actually, I haven't the foggiest idea. When you find out, tell me
why Gojo takes grease off hands but not metal. Probably the same
thing only in reverse.

0 50 100
^
/
/
Applause meter

Well done!


I liked it a lot!!! Now we are humorously rating The Reverend on his
creativeness and entertanment ability. Gee, the old Gong Show comes to
mind. Chuck Berris and The Unknown Comic with his "Chuckie! Chuckie!
Chuckie!".

David Nebenzahl wrote in
s.com:

This is a serious question, not a troll or a trick, as I really don't
know the answer to this: what's the difference between primer and
"regular" paint?

First of all, some ground rules: I'm hoping to get answers from
someone who actually knows what they're talking about (any paint
chemists out there? or at least someone familiar with the inside of
the paint industry), rather than the usual speculation. Therefore, any
answers from "hallerb" or "ransley" will be politely ignored.

How bout a reply from E.F. Hutton. Will that carry any weight?


If someone forced me to explain the difference, my answer would be
something like, "Well, duuuh, I think primer has more solids or
something; or it's made to stick better. Yeah, that's the ticket--it's
stickier!" Obviously, no definitive understanding of really what
primer is and why we're 'spozed to use it.

Yea man. Iz got sum sticky sheeeit in it that hole up onto other ****
real good. Iz like...iz like...iz like, well, iz like that sticky ****
ons the backs of dat metal tape weez hole broken **** together wit.


Extra credit for answers to the following:

o Actual differences between oil-based primer (which I intuitively
consider to be better without really understanding why) and
water-based (latex, acrylic, etc.) primer.

One cleans up with water and the other thinner. Not sure which is which
though.


o Are there any paints made today which can be considered
"self-priming"

Yes, they are usually supplied to a buddy with a drinking problem along
with a case of beer and a bottle of Jack.

and which do not require primer?

The assumption is that we're talking about painting wood products
here, not speciality paints like for metal or other materials.

Your explanation of this matter, which is kind of like the eternal
debate over WD-40 (what it is and isn't and why it's no good for
anything) will be greatly appreciated.

Your welcome!

On Jun 19, 10:52*pm, ransley wrote:
On Jun 19, 2:23*pm, David Nebenzahl wrote:



This is a serious question, not a troll or a trick, as I really don't
know the answer to this: what's the difference between primer and
"regular" paint?

First of all, some ground rules: I'm hoping to get answers from someone
who actually knows what they're talking about (any paint chemists out
there? or at least someone familiar with the inside of the paint
industry), rather than the usual speculation. Therefore, any answers
from "hallerb" or "ransley" will be politely ignored.

If someone forced me to explain the difference, my answer would be
something like, "Well, duuuh, I think primer has more solids or
something; or it's made to stick better. Yeah, that's the ticket--it's
stickier!" Obviously, no definitive understanding of really what primer
is and why we're 'spozed to use it.

Extra credit for answers to the following:

o Actual differences between oil-based primer (which I intuitively
consider to be better without really understanding why) and water-based
(latex, acrylic, etc.) primer.

o Are there any paints made today which can be considered "self-priming"
and which do not require primer?

The assumption is that we're talking about painting wood products here,
not speciality paints like for metal or other materials.

Your explanation of this matter, which is kind of like the eternal
debate over WD-40 (what it is and isn't and why it's no good for
anything) will be greatly appreciated.

And what do you have against Hallerb, he is alot smarter than you
Nebenumnuts

As stated...you and Hallerb were superior to Wikipedia...what's your
problem with that?

David Nebenzahl wrote:
This is a serious question, not a troll or a trick, as I really don't
know the answer to this: what's the difference between primer and
"regular" paint?

First of all, some ground rules: I'm hoping to get answers from
someone who actually knows what they're talking about (any paint
chemists out there? or at least someone familiar with the inside of
the paint industry), rather than the usual speculation. Therefore,
any answers from "hallerb" or "ransley" will be politely ignored.

If someone forced me to explain the difference, my answer would be
something like, "Well, duuuh, I think primer has more solids or
something; or it's made to stick better. Yeah, that's the ticket--it's
stickier!" Obviously, no definitive understanding of really what
primer is and why we're 'spozed to use it.

The primary purpose is to provide a surface with uniform absorption
characteristics. It does that because it *does* have more solids (that is
also why it is heavier.) I haven't checked to see what the solids are
nowadays, used to be stuff like whiting (powdered limestone). The solids
also help provide a smoother surface by filling in grain and minor surface
scratches/dings.

With luck, the primer will also be easy to sand so you can do so and get a
baby-butt smooth surface. Most aren't.
____________________

Extra credit for answers to the following:

o Actual differences between oil-based primer (which I intuitively
consider to be better without really understanding why) and
water-based (latex, acrylic, etc.) primer.

Well, duh. Oil based primer has oil in it

Actually, it has a higher proportion of oil (compared to "paint"). That
means it is relatively soft when dry and that means it resists chipping or
loss of adhesion. That is also why it doesn't sand well...for a prrimer to
sand easily it needs a high proportion of solids and less oil. Get one
thing, lose the other.
_____________________

o Are there any paints made today which can be considered
"self-priming" and which do not require primer?

Any paint. It will just require many more coats to get to the point that
one coat of primer will give.
______________________

The assumption is that we're talking about painting wood products
here, not speciality paints like for metal or other materials.

Which is why I didn't bother talking about latex.

--

dadiOH

On Jun 20, 4:40*am, wrote:
On Jun 19, 10:52*pm, ransley wrote:





On Jun 19, 2:23*pm, David Nebenzahl wrote:

This is a serious question, not a troll or a trick, as I really don't
know the answer to this: what's the difference between primer and
"regular" paint?

First of all, some ground rules: I'm hoping to get answers from someone
who actually knows what they're talking about (any paint chemists out
there? or at least someone familiar with the inside of the paint
industry), rather than the usual speculation. Therefore, any answers
from "hallerb" or "ransley" will be politely ignored.

If someone forced me to explain the difference, my answer would be
something like, "Well, duuuh, I think primer has more solids or
something; or it's made to stick better. Yeah, that's the ticket--it's
stickier!" Obviously, no definitive understanding of really what primer
is and why we're 'spozed to use it.

Extra credit for answers to the following:

o Actual differences between oil-based primer (which I intuitively
consider to be better without really understanding why) and water-based
(latex, acrylic, etc.) primer.

o Are there any paints made today which can be considered "self-priming"
and which do not require primer?

The assumption is that we're talking about painting wood products here,
not speciality paints like for metal or other materials.

Your explanation of this matter, which is kind of like the eternal
debate over WD-40 (what it is and isn't and why it's no good for
anything) will be greatly appreciated.

And what do you have against Hallerb, he is alot smarter than you
Nebenumnuts

As stated...you and Hallerb were superior to Wikipedia...what's your
problem with that?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

No he aid he would ignore Hallerb and me the way I read it, me ok I
understand, but Hallerb is ok.

On Thu, 19 Jun 2008 12:23:08 -0700, David Nebenzahl wrote:

This is a serious question, not a troll or a trick, as I really don't
know the answer to this: what's the difference between primer and
"regular" paint?


The price.

David Nebenzahl wrote:
On 6/19/2008 3:49 PM Frank spake thus:

Actually the op was kind of lazy and could have googled up something
like this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primer_(paint)

Not lazy; I just know better.

I'd sooner ask ransley or hallerb before consulting Wikipedia, the
"encyclopedia" any high-school or junior-high idiot can (and does)
edit. (Or, worse yet, become an "administrator".)

It is entirely possible that a high-schooler knows more about the subject
than the reader. Or not.

David Nebenzahl wrote:
On 6/19/2008 3:49 PM Frank spake thus:

Actually the op was kind of lazy and could have googled up something
like this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primer_(paint)

Not lazy; I just know better.

I'd sooner ask ransley or hallerb before consulting Wikipedia, the
"encyclopedia" any high-school or junior-high idiot can (and does) edit.
(Or, worse yet, become an "administrator".)

I suggest you pony up the cash to award a grant to a MIT grad
student...or maybe write your senator and ask for hearings on the topic.

And yes, welcome to 2008. Usenet is indeed dying largely because there
are faster and more reliable ways of finding information on something
called "the internet".

Greg M

David Nebenzahl wrote:
This is a serious question, not a troll or a trick, as I really don't
know the answer to this: what's the difference between primer and
"regular" paint?

First of all, some ground rules: I'm hoping to get answers from someone
who actually knows what they're talking about (any paint chemists out
there? or at least someone familiar with the inside of the paint
industry), rather than the usual speculation. Therefore, any answers
from "hallerb" or "ransley" will be politely ignored.

If someone forced me to explain the difference, my answer would be
something like, "Well, duuuh, I think primer has more solids or
something; or it's made to stick better. Yeah, that's the ticket--it's
stickier!" Obviously, no definitive understanding of really what primer
is and why we're 'spozed to use it.

Extra credit for answers to the following:

o Actual differences between oil-based primer (which I intuitively
consider to be better without really understanding why) and water-based
(latex, acrylic, etc.) primer.

o Are there any paints made today which can be considered "self-priming"
and which do not require primer?

The assumption is that we're talking about painting wood products here,
not speciality paints like for metal or other materials.

Your explanation of this matter, which is kind of like the eternal
debate over WD-40 (what it is and isn't and why it's no good for
anything) will be greatly appreciated.

Well, you could start w/ first principles...

http://www.williamandrew.com/title.php?id=219#

--

In article , dnoyeB wrote:
On Thu, 19 Jun 2008 12:23:08 -0700, David Nebenzahl wrote:

This is a serious question, not a troll or a trick, as I really don't
know the answer to this: what's the difference between primer and
"regular" paint?


The price.

Ummm.... no. Read some of the other responses in this thread, which explain
what the difference *really* is.

Doug Miller wrote:
In article , dnoyeB wrote:
On Thu, 19 Jun 2008 12:23:08 -0700, David Nebenzahl wrote:

This is a serious question, not a troll or a trick, as I really don't
know the answer to this: what's the difference between primer and
"regular" paint?

The price.

Ummm.... no. Read some of the other responses in this thread, which explain
what the difference *really* is.

That would be the end chain molecules w/ the higher energy valence
electrons I gather?

--

I agree with you. You're not lazy. You're an ass hole!


On Thu, 19 Jun 2008 16:00:04 -0700, David Nebenzahl
wrote:

Not lazy; I just know better.

I'd sooner ask ransley or hallerb before consulting Wikipedia, the
"encyclopedia" any high-school or junior-high idiot can (and does) edit.
(Or, worse yet, become an "administrator".)

Phisherman wrote:
On Thu, 19 Jun 2008 12:23:08 -0700, David Nebenzahl
wrote:


This is a serious question, not a troll or a trick, as I really don't
know the answer to this: what's the difference between primer and
"regular" paint?

First of all, some ground rules: I'm hoping to get answers from someone
who actually knows what they're talking about (any paint chemists out
there? or at least someone familiar with the inside of the paint
industry), rather than the usual speculation. Therefore, any answers

from "hallerb" or "ransley" will be politely ignored.

If someone forced me to explain the difference, my answer would be
something like, "Well, duuuh, I think primer has more solids or
something; or it's made to stick better. Yeah, that's the ticket--it's
stickier!" Obviously, no definitive understanding of really what primer
is and why we're 'spozed to use it.

Extra credit for answers to the following:

o Actual differences between oil-based primer (which I intuitively
consider to be better without really understanding why) and water-based
(latex, acrylic, etc.) primer.

o Are there any paints made today which can be considered "self-priming"
and which do not require primer?

The assumption is that we're talking about painting wood products here,
not speciality paints like for metal or other materials.




Not a paint chemist, although I do have a college chemistry degree.
Primer leaves an excellent surface which paint will adhere. If you
could prepare a surface by some other means a primer may not be
necessary. I'd prefer an oil-based primer over a water-based, unless
the vapors is an issue. Some paints do not require a primer and
usually will say so on the directions. Milk paint may be applied
directly to bare wood. For other finishing paints on wood, use a wood
primer. Skipping steps, especially preparation, leaves you with a
less satisfactory job. Generally you can get good advise from a paint
store.

For a reason to use an oil based primer...a few years ago I was painting
new walls with Benjamin-Moore's water based primer and it looked
horrible. Black and gray spots all over. Benjamin-Moore sent a chemist
down and in a millisecond he put his finger on the problem. The drywall
that had been used was manufactured in Canada and used recycled
newspaper to create the facing. The inks dissolve in the water and
carry through the water based primer leaving the small black to gray spots.

He had me switch to an oil based primer and the problem disappeared.
Still used a water based acrylic for the second coat.

On 6/20/2008 7:37 AM dpb spake thus:

David Nebenzahl wrote:

[snip questions about primer]

Well, you could start w/ first principles...

http://www.williamandrew.com/title.php?id=219#

I was going to thank you for a useful link until I saw this was an ad
for a book--for $195, no less. Thanks, but no thanks. (Now, if my local
public library has it, fine, but I doubt that.)


--
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute
conversation with the average voter.

- Attributed to Winston Churchill

David Nebenzahl wrote:
On 6/20/2008 7:37 AM dpb spake thus:

David Nebenzahl wrote:

[snip questions about primer]

Well, you could start w/ first principles...

http://www.williamandrew.com/title.php?id=219#

I was going to thank you for a useful link until I saw this was an ad
for a book--for $195, no less. Thanks, but no thanks. (Now, if my local
public library has it, fine, but I doubt that.)

There's such things as interlibrary loan, university libraries, etc.

If you want the kind of detail you're asking such resources or the
technical literature are where you're going to find it.

The question comes back to one Dr Laura asks often -- "Just what do you
propose to do with this information?"

--

On Jun 19, 4:00 pm, David Nebenzahl wrote:
On 6/19/2008 3:49 PM Frank spake thus:

Actually the op was kind of lazy and could have googled up something
like this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primer_(paint)

Not lazy; I just know better.

I'd sooner ask ransley or hallerb before consulting Wikipedia, the
"encyclopedia" any high-school or junior-high idiot can (and does) edit.
(Or, worse yet, become an "administrator".)

You should learn more about how Wikipedia works. Studies have found it
just as accurate and more up to date than the Encyclopedia of
Britannica, but I suppose both will pale in comparison to the accurate
information you can solicit on Usenet

David Nebenzahl wrote:

This is a serious question, not a troll or a trick, as I really don't
know the answer to this: what's the difference between primer and
"regular" paint?

....
I find it an interesting set of questions.
While the OP can be faulted for clarifying his question in a manner
that some found undiplomatic, I can understand his desire for the
the theoretical how and why of primer vs. topcoat rather than the
empirical knowledge that most of us have from having applied these
coatings.
I also appreciate the few (such as Frank and Smitty Two) who
actually tried to answer the question.

easyguy had written this in response to
http://www.thestuccocompany.com/main...nt-313727-.htm
:
Wow, I googled the same subject and wound up here. I thought it was a
great question... I find it frustrating to try to find answers to things
from "experts" in the field, and only get those bland answers that aren't
worth reading. I actually wanted to KNOW what the difference was, but I
was shocked that almost everyone who answered mocked and ridiculed the
questioner. I went through every one of the eight pages to see if ANYONE
had a normal answer... not super-scientific, just a normal answer IF THEY
KNEW IT! Jeez, that's what I hate about looking things up online, is that
you get all these wise-cracking guys with nothing better to do than sit at
their computer and type in useless information, when some of us actually
want to learn something from guys who might know something. I would hope
that if you don't know the answer to someone's question, you wouldn't
respond, and let someone who WANTS to share their knowledge respond. The
whole thread on this topic was a weird battle between idiots... I couldn't
believe it. I had to register just to post this comment, because I was so
perturbed by the weird immaturity of most of the responders. The
questioner never got an answer to the question, and neither did I.

easyguy wrote:
easyguy had written this in response to
http://www.thestuccocompany.com/main...nt-313727-.htm
:
Wow, I googled the same subject and wound up here. I thought it was a
great question... I find it frustrating to try to find answers to things
from "experts" in the field, and only get those bland answers that aren't
worth reading. I actually wanted to KNOW what the difference was, but I
was shocked that almost everyone who answered mocked and ridiculed the
questioner. I went through every one of the eight pages to see if ANYONE
had a normal answer... not super-scientific, just a normal answer IF THEY
KNEW IT! Jeez, that's what I hate about looking things up online, is that
you get all these wise-cracking guys with nothing better to do than sit at
their computer and type in useless information, when some of us actually
want to learn something from guys who might know something. I would hope
that if you don't know the answer to someone's question, you wouldn't
respond, and let someone who WANTS to share their knowledge respond. The
whole thread on this topic was a weird battle between idiots... I couldn't
believe it. I had to register just to post this comment, because I was so
perturbed by the weird immaturity of most of the responders. The
questioner never got an answer to the question, and neither did I.




I wasn't following the thread so I don't know what was previously said
so here's what I've been told many times by many different paint stores
and articles: Paint has very little binder to make the new paint stick
to and cover the previous coats or bare wood. Primer consists of mostly
binding agents. When I painted my house (going from a dark color to a
much light color), I first power washed the siding with soap and water
to remove the grim then primed by brush. Afterwards, I spray painted.

Primer feels like you're painting sandpaper onto the surface and it's
tough on paint brushes and equipment.

I don't think you'll ever find a contractor who'll ever prime since it's
an extra step and he'd have to charge more. Also, most homeowners don't
know and don't care about the quality of the paint job so long as it's
the "right" price and the contractor didn't spray paint the plants
and/or the cats.

Try he

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primer_(paint)

On Sun, 30 Aug 2009 15:42:39 -0400, John wrote:

easyguy wrote:
easyguy had written this in response to
http://www.thestuccocompany.com/main...nt-313727-.htm
:
Wow, I googled the same subject and wound up here. I thought it was a
great question... I find it frustrating to try to find answers to things
from "experts" in the field, and only get those bland answers that aren't
worth reading. I actually wanted to KNOW what the difference was, but I
was shocked that almost everyone who answered mocked and ridiculed the
questioner. I went through every one of the eight pages to see if ANYONE
had a normal answer... not super-scientific, just a normal answer IF THEY
KNEW IT! Jeez, that's what I hate about looking things up online, is that
you get all these wise-cracking guys with nothing better to do than sit at
their computer and type in useless information, when some of us actually
want to learn something from guys who might know something. I would hope
that if you don't know the answer to someone's question, you wouldn't
respond, and let someone who WANTS to share their knowledge respond. The
whole thread on this topic was a weird battle between idiots... I couldn't
believe it. I had to register just to post this comment, because I was so
perturbed by the weird immaturity of most of the responders. The
questioner never got an answer to the question, and neither did I.




I wasn't following the thread so I don't know what was previously said
so here's what I've been told many times by many different paint stores
and articles: Paint has very little binder to make the new paint stick
to and cover the previous coats or bare wood. Primer consists of mostly
binding agents. When I painted my house (going from a dark color to a
much light color), I first power washed the siding with soap and water
to remove the grim then primed by brush. Afterwards, I spray painted.

Primer feels like you're painting sandpaper onto the surface and it's
tough on paint brushes and equipment.

I don't think you'll ever find a contractor who'll ever prime since it's
an extra step and he'd have to charge more. Also, most homeowners don't
know and don't care about the quality of the paint job so long as it's
the "right" price and the contractor didn't spray paint the plants
and/or the cats.


Primer is "generally" a more porous finish that allows the finish coat
to "bite" and therfore stick better. As stated above, primer is
generally "stickier" - bonds better to the surface.

Some new generation paints (G3 latex) is "self priming" and "alkyd
modified" latex sticks better to chalky surfaces because it "fixes"
the chalked surface.
The other reason for using primer is to make the surface a more
consistent colour. Tinted primers reduce the amount of finish paint
required to cover - and can actually reduce the TOTAL amount of
product required.
A "primer surfacer" also levels the surface, helping hide minor
imperfections.

Any contractor painting drywall without priming is just wasting your
money.
Repainting a house (external) that has had paint peeling without spot
priming is also wasting your money - and a contractor who painted my
house WITHOUT proper priming would not get paid. PERIOD.

I just had the exterior of my house (aluminum siding) repainted last
summer with a G3 alkyd modified 100% acriylic latex and the contractor
spot primed all bare spots before painting. Excellent job and it will
likely last as long as the original finish (house is 38 years old now)