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#41
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Fill crawl space with foam?
On Feb 29, 1:37 pm, wrote:
You have a wooden basement with a dirt floor? Most termites don't normally eat concrete and masonry. If there were insects that ate concrete, I'd have them. With a 1/16" gap between the slab and walls, it might have well been a dirt floor. Didn't slow the termites down one bit. It's all fixed now, but what a mess. |
#42
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Fill crawl space with foam?
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
I'm not real keen on removing blocks. The existing slots are in the 2-by wood which sits on the sill plate. Furthermore, I'm pretty sure most code requires a minimum distance between the ground and the house structure if it isn't concrete. Providing a medium that moisture can follow or that critters can burrow up into the house doesn't strike me as the best idea. Given the limited area involved, boxing in the underside of the joists and then filling them with insulation might be a better alternative... |
#43
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Fill crawl space with foam?
On 2008-02-29, marson wrote:
The rule about a vapor barrier on the warm side doesn't apply to floors. Oh, why is that? Wayne |
#44
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Fill crawl space with foam?
On Feb 29, 7:55 pm, Wayne Whitney wrote:
On 2008-02-29, marson wrote: The rule about a vapor barrier on the warm side doesn't apply to floors. Oh, why is that? Wayne Two reasons. First, houses tend to act as chimneys--warm moist air rises, finds a way out near the top, and thus floors tend to be under negative pressure--outside air is being pulled in down low. Even if this isn't the case, most floors are sheathed with plywood which which has a high enough perm rating to function as an air/vapor barrier. I have seen a number of floors which were covered on the cold side with poly and there were no apparent problems, though it would probably be prudent to use housewrap on the cold side just in case. I meant to add to this discussion that most foams cannot be exposed in a crawlspace. they must be covered with a thermal barrier like drywall. |
#45
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Fill crawl space with foam?
On 2008-03-01, marson wrote:
Two reasons. First, houses tend to act as chimneys--warm moist air rises, finds a way out near the top, and thus floors tend to be under negative pressure--outside air is being pulled in down low. That's true, but I think water vapor will still diffuse in all directions. Even if this isn't the case, most floors are sheathed with plywood which which has a high enough perm rating to function as an air/vapor barrier. OK, so there's your vapor barrier on the warm side. :-) I meant to add to this discussion that most foams cannot be exposed in a crawlspace. they must be covered with a thermal barrier like drywall. Actually, I've wondered about that. Isn't the point of the thermal barrier to separate the foam from the living space? In that case the floor plywood would do the job and there wouldn't need to be a thermal barrier on the underneath. Cheers, Wayne |
#46
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Fill crawl space with foam?
On Feb 28, 8:34*am, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
The dining area of my kitchen is built over a crawl space that's enclosed by cinder blocks like the rest of the house. In the basement, there are two openings to this crawl space, but they're only 6" high x 18" wide. I assume they were put there for ventilation purposes, since they're useless for anything else. The area in question juts out from the main kitchen, and is 12x12 feet. In winter, the floor is ice cold, so that dining area is useless. I believe the traditional first step for dealing with this is to lay a plastic vapor barrier on the soil underneath, followed by fiberglass insulation. The vinyl flooring needs replacement, so I could also rip up the wood underneath in that area and have total access to do the work. Replace the sub-floor afterward, install new vinyl or tile, and it's done. BUT: Someone suggested an interesting alternative: *When the vinyl flooring is removed, drill access holes in the sub-floor and pump the space full of foam. It's already a form of plastic, so it should form its own vapor barrier. And, it'll insulate. Progress could be checked via the access slots in the basement. Makes sense, but there's always a "gotcha". Your thoughts, please. Pump it in , let it expand, let the floors buckle up 1 ft , Its termite and Carpenter Ant attractive!!! Have fun!! |
#47
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Fill crawl space with foam?
marson wrote:
I meant to add to this discussion that most foams cannot be exposed in a crawlspace. they must be covered with a thermal barrier like drywall. Or you can look for an ASTM E-84 fire rated surface foam, which can be exposed, but not to sunlight or a UV source. A crawlspace would have neither problem... |
#48
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Fill crawl space with foam?
On Feb 29, 9:26 pm, Wayne Whitney wrote:
On 2008-03-01, marson wrote: Two reasons. First, houses tend to act as chimneys--warm moist air rises, finds a way out near the top, and thus floors tend to be under negative pressure--outside air is being pulled in down low. That's true, but I think water vapor will still diffuse in all directions. Even if this isn't the case, most floors are sheathed with plywood which which has a high enough perm rating to function as an air/vapor barrier. OK, so there's your vapor barrier on the warm side. :-) I meant to add to this discussion that most foams cannot be exposed in a crawlspace. they must be covered with a thermal barrier like drywall. Actually, I've wondered about that. Isn't the point of the thermal barrier to separate the foam from the living space? In that case the floor plywood would do the job and there wouldn't need to be a thermal barrier on the underneath. Cheers, Wayne Actually, while there are definitely some gray areas in my mind concerning vapor barriers and floors, there is no gray area with foam in crawl spaces and rim joists (including the rim joist where the ceiling below is drywalled); the foam must be covered by a thermal barrier. At least according to how the code is interpreted where I live. I've spent some joyous time grovelling around in a crawl space screwing OSB onto ICF's per the BI instructions. There are some foams that meet the flame spread requirements, but not many AFAIK. |
#49
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Fill crawl space with foam?
On 2008-03-01, marson wrote:
there is no gray area with foam in crawl spaces and rim joists (including the rim joist where the ceiling below is drywalled); the foam must be covered by a thermal barrier. At least according to how the code is interpreted where I live. Good to know, thanks. Wayne There are some foams that meet the flame spread requirements, but not many AFAIK. One foam I was looking at said: ASTM E-84: FSI 15, SMK 450. That's presumably flame spread index 15, and a smoke criterion of 450. Do you know what the flame spread requirements are from the building code? Cheers, Wayne |
#50
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Fill crawl space with foam?
"Wayne Whitney" wrote in message One foam I was looking at said: ASTM E-84: FSI 15, SMK 450. That's presumably flame spread index 15, and a smoke criterion of 450. Do you know what the flame spread requirements are from the building code? Cheers, Wayne That is why they are called out, to show they meet code. Check your local codes though, in case they differ. |
#51
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Fill crawl space with foam?
replying to Robert Allison, McStick wrote:
I had a similar idea of filling the entire crawl space with foam, for my 24x16 cabin in Quebec, Canada, where there are no termites. Can you think of any other objections? Price may be the prohibitive factor. -- for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...am-291168-.htm |
#52
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Fill crawl space with foam?
On Tuesday, November 13, 2018 at 8:14:08 PM UTC-5, McStick wrote:
replying to Robert Allison, McStick wrote: I had a similar idea of filling the entire crawl space with foam, for my 24x16 cabin in Quebec, Canada, where there are no termites. Can you think of any other objections? Price may be the prohibitive factor. -- for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...am-291168-.htm Access to water lines, electric lines, maybe HVAC? Ability to move or add any of those? |
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