Hello all -

I'm getting ready to have my roof replaced, and have some
questions pertaining to shingles.

A roofer/siding guy who looked at things and gave me an
estimate mentioned something about "Timberline" or
"Timberlane" shingles as what he regularly used. Not sure of
the name; I have found a website for Timberline shingles but
not for "Timberlane".

I had previously been considering what are commonly called
"3-tab" type shingles (I was interested in them because of
their "lay-flat" look), but he recommended that I NOT use
them, because they have a limited lifespan when compared to
other types of shingles.

I _think_ he was referring to what are called
"architectural" type shingles. He said they'll last longer
and come with a better warranty.

Would anyone comment on the longevity of 3-tab vis-a-vis the
"architectural" type shingles? Was he telling me the truth?

I'd also like to ask about shingle COLORS. I'd prefer a
charcoal or darker-colored roof, as the houses on either
side of me are grey and brown. Just something different.

But I was wondering about shingle color and heat transfer.
Will a darj roof "absorb" considerably more heat from the
summer sun? Or does it make little difference? If heat IS a
factor, I'll choose a lighter color. (Note: my attic has
insulation installed underneath the rafters, pretty
well-wrapped)

Thanks,
- John

John Albert wrote:
Hello all -

I'm getting ready to have my roof replaced, and have some questions
pertaining to shingles.

A roofer/siding guy who looked at things and gave me an estimate
mentioned something about "Timberline" or "Timberlane" shingles as what
he regularly used. Not sure of the name; I have found a website for
Timberline shingles but not for "Timberlane".

I had previously been considering what are commonly called "3-tab" type
shingles (I was interested in them because of their "lay-flat" look),
but he recommended that I NOT use them, because they have a limited
lifespan when compared to other types of shingles.

I _think_ he was referring to what are called "architectural" type
shingles. He said they'll last longer and come with a better warranty.

Would anyone comment on the longevity of 3-tab vis-a-vis the
"architectural" type shingles? Was he telling me the truth?

I'd also like to ask about shingle COLORS. I'd prefer a charcoal or
darker-colored roof, as the houses on either side of me are grey and
brown. Just something different.

But I was wondering about shingle color and heat transfer. Will a darj
roof "absorb" considerably more heat from the summer sun? Or does it
make little difference? If heat IS a factor, I'll choose a lighter
color. (Note: my attic has insulation installed underneath the rafters,
pretty well-wrapped)

Thanks,
- John

I have these type shingles. My old shingles had a lot of warps and
roofer recommended these to remove show through of texture under
shingles since he had to cut some off. A complete re-roof, removing old
shingles would not have this problem. My "new roof" is about 15 years
old and looks great. Shingle warranty is 25 years.

Frank

John Albert wrote:
Hello all -

I'm getting ready to have my roof replaced, and have some questions
pertaining to shingles.

A roofer/siding guy who looked at things and gave me an estimate
mentioned something about "Timberline" or "Timberlane" shingles as what
he regularly used. Not sure of the name; I have found a website for
Timberline shingles but not for "Timberlane".

It's Timberline.

I had previously been considering what are commonly called "3-tab" type
shingles (I was interested in them because of their "lay-flat" look),
but he recommended that I NOT use them, because they have a limited
lifespan when compared to other types of shingles.

I _think_ he was referring to what are called "architectural" type
shingles. He said they'll last longer and come with a better warranty.

Would anyone comment on the longevity of 3-tab vis-a-vis the
"architectural" type shingles? Was he telling me the truth?

3-tab shingles are the lowest of the low as far as longevity is
concerned. Architectural shingles are rated for longer lifespan,
easily. Shingles are now rated according to their expected lifespan
instead of the old shingle weight. 3 tabs are typically 20 year
(recently upgraded from 15 year) while architectural are 25 to 50 year
shingles.

I'd also like to ask about shingle COLORS. I'd prefer a charcoal or
darker-colored roof, as the houses on either side of me are grey and
brown. Just something different.

But I was wondering about shingle color and heat transfer. Will a darj
roof "absorb" considerably more heat from the summer sun? Or does it
make little difference? If heat IS a factor, I'll choose a lighter
color. (Note: my attic has insulation installed underneath the rafters,
pretty well-wrapped)

Thanks,
- John

John, if I understand correctly, you have insulation up against the
bottom of your sheathing? If that is the case, then I would go with the
lightest color you can get. The insulation does not allow air
circulation along the bottom of the sheathing. This causes a build up
of heat, which drastically shortens the lifespan of shingles. My advice
would be to lower the insulation to provide an airgap and make sure you
have both soffit and ridge vents (a reroof is a good time to do
ridgevents). If that is too much to do, then go with lighter colored
shingles, or better; a metal roof.

--
Robert Allison
Rimshot, Inc.
Georgetown, TX

John Albert wrote in news:ILLlj.1079$uE.575
@newssvr22.news.prodigy.net:

Hello all -

I'm getting ready to have my roof replaced, and have some
questions pertaining to shingles.

A roofer/siding guy who looked at things and gave me an
estimate mentioned something about "Timberline" or
"Timberlane" shingles as what he regularly used. Not sure of
the name; I have found a website for Timberline shingles but
not for "Timberlane".

Timberline is just a GAF line l like Oakridge is an Owens Corning line.


I had previously been considering what are commonly called
"3-tab" type shingles (I was interested in them because of
their "lay-flat" look), but he recommended that I NOT use
them, because they have a limited lifespan when compared to
other types of shingles.

I _think_ he was referring to what are called
"architectural" type shingles. He said they'll last longer
and come with a better warranty.

Yes they are called architectural. They do have and claim a 30 & 50 year
line. On the ones I used, the sealing strip ran continuously from one end
to the oter on every shingle. This can't be a bad thing especially in
higher wind areas.

Architecturals seem to be becoming the norm. More desireable for home sale.
Personally, I like the look better.


Would anyone comment on the longevity of 3-tab vis-a-vis the
"architectural" type shingles? Was he telling me the truth?

I have no personal "test of time" info for you. I just did a roof with
Oakridge. I don't think I have 30 yrs left to check on them. You need to go
look at a regular 3 tab and an architectural at a store. They'll be on
display. You'll see the difference.

They hide roof defects better. From the roofers standpoint, they are easier
to install because thee are no tabs to space on ends and there is less
waste but they are more difficult to cut. Just info, not really your
concern.

Just make sure they are AR (algae resistant) rated. Most are. It helps
prevent black algae from forming on the horth side of roofs. Especially
important if you choose a light color or are in a high humidity area like
the south or mid-south.

The things you don't mention is about the rest of the job they will do and
you should be asking them - new drip edge, drip edge width, rrof & chimney
flashing, WSU (waterproof shingle underlayment) on eaves and vallys,
roofing felt, tearoff vs another layer, disposal of old shingles,
galvanized nails vs. zinc, cost per underlayment sheet if needed, etc. Some
things are climate dependent. All this should be in your written estimate.
If it isn't, assume you aren't getting it.


I'd also like to ask about shingle COLORS. I'd prefer a
charcoal or darker-colored roof, as the houses on either
side of me are grey and brown. Just something different.

But I was wondering about shingle color and heat transfer.
Will a darj roof "absorb" considerably more heat from the
summer sun? Or does it make little difference? If heat IS a
factor, I'll choose a lighter color. (Note: my attic has
insulation installed underneath the rafters, pretty
well-wrapped)

Thanks,
- John

Red wrote:
The things you don't mention is about the rest of the job
they will do and
you should be asking them - new drip edge, drip edge width,
rrof & chimney
flashing, WSU (waterproof shingle underlayment) on eaves and
vallys,
roofing felt, tearoff vs another layer, disposal of old
shingles,
galvanized nails vs. zinc, cost per underlayment sheet if
needed, etc. Some
things are climate dependent. All this should be in your
written estimate

The guy who looked at things did mention that he'd also
reface the chimney and install copper flashing (chimney
currently has loose bricks). He said something about an "ice
guard" going up perhaps 3 feet from the drip edge. New
gutters too (mine are falling apart).

The entire existing roof has to come off, down to the
rafters (currently has at least 2 layers of asphalt shingles
on top of wood shingles over batten strips).

He also mentioned that he'd install ridge vents (house has
none).

This will be on a modest rectangular 2-story, main roof is
peaked gable, no dormers. Also a small "bay" (not window) on
side, lean-to type of porch on the back, plus the garage
roof, which is worse than the house.

This includes taking down a couple of small trees in the way.

His price was $10,450 for everything (including a couple of
dumpsters to haul everything away). I had figured at least
$8,000 and up to 12.

I haven't called him back yet.

- John

"John Albert" wrote in message
.. .
Red wrote:
The things you don't mention is about the rest of the job they will do
and
you should be asking them - new drip edge, drip edge width, rrof & chimney
flashing, WSU (waterproof shingle underlayment) on eaves and vallys,
roofing felt, tearoff vs another layer, disposal of old shingles,
galvanized nails vs. zinc, cost per underlayment sheet if needed, etc.
Some
things are climate dependent. All this should be in your written estimate


The guy who looked at things did mention that he'd also reface the chimney
and install copper flashing (chimney currently has loose bricks). He said
something about an "ice guard" going up perhaps 3 feet from the drip edge.
New gutters too (mine are falling apart).

The entire existing roof has to come off, down to the rafters (currently
has at least 2 layers of asphalt shingles on top of wood shingles over
batten strips).

He also mentioned that he'd install ridge vents (house has none).

This will be on a modest rectangular 2-story, main roof is peaked gable,
no dormers. Also a small "bay" (not window) on side, lean-to type of porch
on the back, plus the garage roof, which is worse than the house.

This includes taking down a couple of small trees in the way.

His price was $10,450 for everything (including a couple of dumpsters to
haul everything away). I had figured at least $8,000 and up to 12.

I haven't called him back yet.

- John

Not a bad price. Instead of a ridge vent I went for roof vents--2 out of
the 3 roofers recommended them instead of the ridge vent. If you're in a
snowy winter climate try for a 6 ft. ice guard.
MLD

"MLD" wrote in news:heQlj.6074$5h6.2123@trndny09:


"John Albert" wrote in message
.. .
Red wrote:
The things you don't mention is about the rest of the job they
will do and
you should be asking them - new drip edge, drip edge width, rrof &
chimney flashing, WSU (waterproof shingle underlayment) on eaves and
vallys, roofing felt, tearoff vs another layer, disposal of old
shingles, galvanized nails vs. zinc, cost per underlayment sheet if
needed, etc. Some
things are climate dependent. All this should be in your written
estimate


The guy who looked at things did mention that he'd also reface the
chimney and install copper flashing (chimney currently has loose
bricks). He said something about an "ice guard" going up perhaps 3
feet from the drip edge. New gutters too (mine are falling apart).

The entire existing roof has to come off, down to the rafters
(currently has at least 2 layers of asphalt shingles on top of wood
shingles over batten strips).

He also mentioned that he'd install ridge vents (house has none).

This will be on a modest rectangular 2-story, main roof is peaked
gable, no dormers. Also a small "bay" (not window) on side, lean-to
type of porch on the back, plus the garage roof, which is worse than
the house.

This includes taking down a couple of small trees in the way.

His price was $10,450 for everything (including a couple of dumpsters
to haul everything away). I had figured at least $8,000 and up to 12.

I haven't called him back yet.

- John

Not a bad price. Instead of a ridge vent I went for roof vents--2 out
of the 3 roofers recommended them instead of the ridge vent. If
you're in a snowy winter climate try for a 6 ft. ice guard.
MLD


Think the recommendation I've heard is 2 ft up the roof from where the
insulation starts on the outside vertical wall. Typical overhang is a
foot so 3 ft (std width) gives you 2ft up.

When my 3-tab blew off I replaced it with Architectural for better wind
resistance.

John Albert wrote in news:f5Plj.254$J41.47
@newssvr14.news.prodigy.net:

Red wrote:
The things you don't mention is about the rest of the job
they will do and
you should be asking them - new drip edge, drip edge width,
rrof & chimney
flashing, WSU (waterproof shingle underlayment) on eaves and
vallys,
roofing felt, tearoff vs another layer, disposal of old
shingles,
galvanized nails vs. zinc, cost per underlayment sheet if
needed, etc. Some
things are climate dependent. All this should be in your
written estimate

The guy who looked at things did mention that he'd also
reface the chimney

Not sure what that is. I'm no pro. Just a professional wanna-be. Maybe he
means repoint the bricks?

and install copper flashing (chimney
currently has loose bricks).

Woa! Copper? That **** is expensive if it's real flashing vs the sticky
back copper stuff.

He said something about an "ice
guard" going up perhaps 3 feet from the drip edge. New
gutters too (mine are falling apart).

Yea, the ice guard is the WSU. If he uses Grace brand, that's awesome.
For what it sounds like he's doing for the price, I wouldn't beat him up
for it. You look at Grace vs say IKO and you'll see the difference
easily.

Prices can be a LOT different depending on area. Just curious, what state
are you in? You know how many square he estimated?


The entire existing roof has to come off, down to the
rafters (currently has at least 2 layers of asphalt shingles
on top of wood shingles over batten strips).

He also mentioned that he'd install ridge vents (house has
none).

If you happen to have gable vents don't ever plan on putting a fan in
them when you have a ridge vent. A lot of the air will get sucked from
the ridge right to the fan I read.


This will be on a modest rectangular 2-story, main roof is
peaked gable, no dormers. Also a small "bay" (not window) on
side, lean-to type of porch on the back, plus the garage
roof, which is worse than the house.

This includes taking down a couple of small trees in the way.

His price was $10,450 for everything (including a couple of
dumpsters to haul everything away). I had figured at least
$8,000 and up to 12.

I haven't called him back yet.

- John

Red wrote:
Prices can be a LOT different depending on area. Just
curious, what state
are you in? You know how many square he estimated?

I'm in Connecticut. We get the full 4 seasons, but nothing
that I'd call "extreme".

I didn't get his number for "squares" required. My house is
not really large, about the same roof area as a typical
raised ranch, perhaps even a bit less because my house is
not as long lengthwise as a RR would be, it's about the same
depth. I also have the small 3-window bay previously
mentioned, the back porch, and the one-car garage roof. It's
about 1550 sq. ft., but remember that's on 2 floors, a
simple 2-story. The price was for both house and garage.

If you happen to have gable vents don't ever plan on
putting a fan in
them when you have a ridge vent. A lot of the air will get
sucked from
the ridge right to the fan I read.

Maybe I misspoke by saying "ridge" vent. There currently
aren't any "vents" in the attic at all. He did say he would
put in a vent at each end, may or may not have been a
"ridge" vent. Sorry for what may be the wrong information.

Thanks,
- John

John Albert wrote in news:YJSlj.313$xq2.42
@newssvr21.news.prodigy.net:

Red wrote:
Prices can be a LOT different depending on area. Just
curious, what state
are you in? You know how many square he estimated?

I'm in Connecticut. We get the full 4 seasons, but nothing
that I'd call "extreme".

Lived in Stamford 25+ years. I know CT seasons. New England is generally
expensive costs. CT is right up there. If you are in Darien or Greenwich
an estimate will cost you 10k. The only reason I asked is maybe someone
from the area can give you better insight.


I didn't get his number for "squares" required. My house is
not really large, about the same roof area as a typical
raised ranch, perhaps even a bit less because my house is
not as long lengthwise as a RR would be, it's about the same
depth. I also have the small 3-window bay previously
mentioned, the back porch, and the one-car garage roof. It's
about 1550 sq. ft., but remember that's on 2 floors, a
simple 2-story. The price was for both house and garage.

If you happen to have gable vents don't ever plan on
putting a fan in
them when you have a ridge vent. A lot of the air will get
sucked from
the ridge right to the fan I read.

Maybe I misspoke by saying "ridge" vent. There currently
aren't any "vents" in the attic at all. He did say he would
put in a vent at each end, may or may not have been a
"ridge" vent. Sorry for what may be the wrong information.

Odd to me that there's nothing. I hope you have some type of soffit
venting. Again, Google is your friend. The soffit venting is needed in
conjunction with the roof/gable vent. See Building Section Cutaway in the
link below.

Gable vents are the thingys on the sidewalls usually near peaks with the
slats. Many different types of these. Google gable vents then click on
Images.

A ridge vent runs almost the length of a peak on the roof. The sheathing
is cut the length of the roof about 1 1/2" on each side. There are
several types of ridge vent from metal to what's called Rapid Ridge.
http://www.tamko.com/Portals/0/docum...ge_app_ins.pdf


Thanks,
- John

John Albert wrote:
A roofer/siding guy who looked at things and gave me an
estimate mentioned something about "Timberline" or
"Timberlane" shingles as what he regularly used. Not sure of
the name; I have found a website for Timberline shingles but
not for "Timberlane".

I would call the guy and make him repeat himself, just to be clear.
This "Timberlane" may be some fly-by-night cut-rate shingle
manufacturer trying to play off the good name of Timberline.
Timberlane, Timberline, same difference, right? NOT NECESSARILY.

Would anyone comment on the longevity of 3-tab vis-a-vis the
"architectural" type shingles? Was he telling me the truth?

I would advise against hiring this roofer. You should not have
questions like this if he was doing his job. He should have shown you
the difference between the shingles, the available colors.

wrote in news:678aa0f5-478a-4853-9db5-
:

John Albert wrote:
A roofer/siding guy who looked at things and gave me an
estimate mentioned something about "Timberline" or
"Timberlane" shingles as what he regularly used. Not sure of
the name; I have found a website for Timberline shingles but
not for "Timberlane".

I would call the guy and make him repeat himself, just to be clear.
This "Timberlane" may be some fly-by-night cut-rate shingle
manufacturer trying to play off the good name of Timberline.
Timberlane, Timberline, same difference, right? NOT NECESSARILY.

Maybe a better question is who manufactures it i.e. Owens Corning, GAF,
IKO, etc.? I'm sure they all make an econo line as well as a kick-ass
line though.


Would anyone comment on the longevity of 3-tab vis-a-vis the
"architectural" type shingles? Was he telling me the truth?

I would advise against hiring this roofer. You should not have
questions like this if he was doing his job. He should have shown you
the difference between the shingles, the available colors.

On Jan 23, 1:33*pm, John Albert wrote:
Hello all -

I'm getting ready to have my roof replaced, and have some
questions pertaining to *shingles.

A roofer/siding guy who looked at things and gave me an
estimate mentioned something about "Timberline" or
"Timberlane" shingles as what he regularly used. Not sure of
the name; I have found a website for Timberline shingles but
not for "Timberlane".

I had previously been considering what are commonly called
"3-tab" type shingles (I was interested in them because of
their "lay-flat" look), but he recommended that I NOT use
them, because they have a limited lifespan when compared to
other types of shingles.

I _think_ he was referring to what are called
"architectural" type shingles. He said they'll last longer
and come with a better warranty.

Would anyone comment on the longevity of 3-tab vis-a-vis the
"architectural" type shingles? Was he telling me the truth?

I'd also like to ask about shingle COLORS. I'd prefer a
charcoal or darker-colored roof, as the houses on either
side of me are grey and brown. Just something different.

But I was wondering about shingle color and heat transfer.
Will a darj roof "absorb" considerably more heat from the
summer sun? Or does it make little difference? If heat IS a
factor, I'll choose a lighter color. (Note: my attic has
insulation installed underneath the rafters, pretty
well-wrapped)

Thanks,
- John

John:
I sent you a private reply to answer all of your questions thoroughly.

John Albert wrote:

There currently aren't any "vents" in the attic at all. He did say he would
put in a vent at each end, may or may not have been a
"ridge" vent.

If you live in a snow-free area, ridge vents are better than other
vents because they pull out more air, partly because the properly
designed ones, that is, those with a vertical fin on each side, don't
let wind push air into the attic but instead always suck out air,
regardless of which way the wind is blowing. The fins also help keep
out rain.

http://www.airvent.com/homeowner/pro...dgeVents.shtml

You also need soffit vents to bring air into the attic, but that's
true regardless of the type of roof vents.

Light grey shingles, often labelled "white", absorb about 90% of the
sunlight, while any other color, even light tan, absorbs about 99% of
it. So roof insulation matters a lot more than roof color.

Consumer Reports reviewed shingles in Aug. 1997 and Aug. 2003 and
found that price, length of warranty, architectural vs. 3-tab, brand,
and weight had almost no relationship to quality, although many of the
top-scoring shingles were by Certainteed. Because of this, we bought
the GAF 3-tab Royal Sovereign shingles that were warranted for 25
years and rated about the same or better as GAF architectural
Timberline shingles (three types - Ultra, Select 40, and 30)


1997 results for GAF 3-tab Royal Sovereign:

tear resistance: D
pull resistance: B
stretchability: B
nail holding: B
wind resistance: A
sun resistance: B
freeze/thaw: B


2003 results for GAF Timberline Ultra and Timberline 40 architectural:

strength: B
wind resistance: C
weathering: B
impact resistance: D


2003 results for GAF architectural Timberline 30:

strength: C
wind resistance: D
weathering: B
impact resistance: C


Be careful in choosing the roofer because the one we had was so bad
that they ended up redoing the roof completely -- a year later, not
because the shingles were bad but because of the really sloppy
installation and the failure to use the contracted 6 nails/shingle
versus the usual 4/shingle..Be sure the company is authorized by the
single manufacturer so you'll have warranty coverage even if they go
belly-up, and ask if they use temporary crews, i.e., foreign workers,
often illegals, or only their own employees. Our roofing company said
they used no temporary crews, but the first crew was definitely
temporary, and when the roof was finally redone, every worker was a
full time employee, probably all supervisory because nobody was
younger than 45. Also the leader of the first crew was fired because
of the poor initial roofing job.

On Wednesday, January 23, 2008 1:33:13 PM UTC-5, John Albert wrote:
Hello all -

I'm getting ready to have my roof replaced, and have some
questions pertaining to shingles.

A roofer/siding guy who looked at things and gave me an
estimate mentioned something about "Timberline" or
"Timberlane" shingles as what he regularly used. Not sure of
the name; I have found a website for Timberline shingles but
not for "Timberlane".

I had previously been considering what are commonly called
"3-tab" type shingles (I was interested in them because of
their "lay-flat" look), but he recommended that I NOT use
them, because they have a limited lifespan when compared to
other types of shingles.

I _think_ he was referring to what are called
"architectural" type shingles. He said they'll last longer
and come with a better warranty.

Would anyone comment on the longevity of 3-tab vis-a-vis the
"architectural" type shingles? Was he telling me the truth?

I'd also like to ask about shingle COLORS. I'd prefer a
charcoal or darker-colored roof, as the houses on either
side of me are grey and brown. Just something different.

But I was wondering about shingle color and heat transfer.
Will a darj roof "absorb" considerably more heat from the
summer sun? Or does it make little difference? If heat IS a
factor, I'll choose a lighter color. (Note: my attic has
insulation installed underneath the rafters, pretty
well-wrapped)

Thanks,
- John

i personally would use the 3 tab with a architectural look over any architectural shingle because they give the nice architectural look every one is after but unlike architectural with is pretty much two shingles compressed together so if installation is done incorrectly the will fall apart when the hotter weather starts to melt the tar strip on them iv been doing roofing for 10 years now and that is what iv learns also having a attic fan over ridge vent would greatly increase the life span on any shingle and also lowers your cooling bill by 20-30% by truly sucking the hot air out of the attic space

On Sun, 14 Jul 2013 16:57:36 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Wednesday, January 23, 2008 1:33:13 PM UTC-5, John Albert wrote:
Hello all -

I'm getting ready to have my roof replaced, and have some
questions pertaining to shingles.

A roofer/siding guy who looked at things and gave me an
estimate mentioned something about "Timberline" or
"Timberlane" shingles as what he regularly used. Not sure of
the name; I have found a website for Timberline shingles but
not for "Timberlane".

I had previously been considering what are commonly called
"3-tab" type shingles (I was interested in them because of
their "lay-flat" look), but he recommended that I NOT use
them, because they have a limited lifespan when compared to
other types of shingles.

I _think_ he was referring to what are called
"architectural" type shingles. He said they'll last longer
and come with a better warranty.

Would anyone comment on the longevity of 3-tab vis-a-vis the
"architectural" type shingles? Was he telling me the truth?

I'd also like to ask about shingle COLORS. I'd prefer a
charcoal or darker-colored roof, as the houses on either
side of me are grey and brown. Just something different.

But I was wondering about shingle color and heat transfer.
Will a darj roof "absorb" considerably more heat from the
summer sun? Or does it make little difference? If heat IS a
factor, I'll choose a lighter color. (Note: my attic has
insulation installed underneath the rafters, pretty
well-wrapped)

Thanks,
- John

i personally would use the 3 tab with a architectural look over any architectural shingle because they give the nice architectural look every one is after but unlike architectural with is pretty much two shingles compressed together so if installation is done incorrectly the will fall apart when the hotter weather starts to melt the tar strip on them iv been doing roofing for 10 years now and that is what iv learns also having a attic fan over ridge vent would greatly increase the life span on any shingle and also lowers your cooling bill by 20-30% by truly sucking the hot air out of the attic space


I had some brown 20 year warranty 3-tabs installed 30 years ago and
they are on their last legs.

On Wednesday, January 23, 2008 7:16:38 PM UTC-5, Red Green wrote:
"MLD" wrote in news:heQlj.6074$5h6.2123@trndny09:


"John Albert" wrote in message
.. .
Red wrote:
The things you don't mention is about the rest of the job they
will do and
you should be asking them - new drip edge, drip edge width, rrof &
chimney flashing, WSU (waterproof shingle underlayment) on eaves and
vallys, roofing felt, tearoff vs another layer, disposal of old
shingles, galvanized nails vs. zinc, cost per underlayment sheet if
needed, etc. Some
things are climate dependent. All this should be in your written
estimate


The guy who looked at things did mention that he'd also reface the
chimney and install copper flashing (chimney currently has loose
bricks). He said something about an "ice guard" going up perhaps 3
feet from the drip edge. New gutters too (mine are falling apart).

The entire existing roof has to come off, down to the rafters
(currently has at least 2 layers of asphalt shingles on top of wood
shingles over batten strips).

He also mentioned that he'd install ridge vents (house has none).

This will be on a modest rectangular 2-story, main roof is peaked
gable, no dormers. Also a small "bay" (not window) on side, lean-to
type of porch on the back, plus the garage roof, which is worse than
the house.

This includes taking down a couple of small trees in the way.

His price was $10,450 for everything (including a couple of dumpsters
to haul everything away). I had figured at least $8,000 and up to 12.

I haven't called him back yet.

- John

Not a bad price. Instead of a ridge vent I went for roof vents--2 out
of the 3 roofers recommended them instead of the ridge vent. If
you're in a snowy winter climate try for a 6 ft. ice guard.
MLD


Think the recommendation I've heard is 2 ft up the roof from where the
insulation starts on the outside vertical wall. Typical overhang is a
foot so 3 ft (std width) gives you 2ft up.

2 ft past heated wall is code now in most areas subject to
snow/freezing. But I think a lot of roofers don't get the basic
idea and just put one 3 ft pass down the eaves regardless of how
long the eaves are. In the case of a front porch, it could be that
12 feet is what's needed to get from the eave to 2 ft past the
heated wall.

On Friday, January 25, 2008 1:16:51 AM UTC-5, larry moe 'n curly wrote:
John Albert wrote:

There currently aren't any "vents" in the attic at all. He did say he would
put in a vent at each end, may or may not have been a
"ridge" vent.

If you live in a snow-free area, ridge vents are better than other
vents because they pull out more air, partly because the properly
designed ones, that is, those with a vertical fin on each side, don't
let wind push air into the attic but instead always suck out air,
regardless of which way the wind is blowing. The fins also help keep
out rain.

http://www.airvent.com/homeowner/pro...dgeVents.shtml

You also need soffit vents to bring air into the attic, but that's
true regardless of the type of roof vents.

Light grey shingles, often labelled "white", absorb about 90% of the
sunlight, while any other color, even light tan, absorbs about 99% of
it. So roof insulation matters a lot more than roof color.

Agree that color isn't going to make a significant difference.
I saw a study done in FL on identical houses with different colors
and types of roofs. From white shingles to black shingles in FL
in summer, there was something like 10% difference in cooling
energy used in the house. But, that was with the house unoccupied.
When the houses were occupied, the percentage dropped to just a few
percent. Conclusion was it might make a difference of $20 a year
in cooling costs. And of course in northern climates, it's safe
to assume that in the winter with a darker roof you get some small
benefit from a darker roof that would lessen the effect even more.








Consumer Reports reviewed shingles in Aug. 1997 and Aug. 2003 and
found that price, length of warranty, architectural vs. 3-tab, brand,
and weight had almost no relationship to quality, although many of the
top-scoring shingles were by Certainteed. Because of this, we bought
the GAF 3-tab Royal Sovereign shingles that were warranted for 25
years and rated about the same or better as GAF architectural
Timberline shingles (three types - Ultra, Select 40, and 30)


1997 results for GAF 3-tab Royal Sovereign:

tear resistance: D
pull resistance: B
stretchability: B
nail holding: B
wind resistance: A
sun resistance: B
freeze/thaw: B


2003 results for GAF Timberline Ultra and Timberline 40 architectural:

strength: B
wind resistance: C
weathering: B
impact resistance: D


2003 results for GAF architectural Timberline 30:

strength: C
wind resistance: D
weathering: B
impact resistance: C


Be careful in choosing the roofer because the one we had was so bad
that they ended up redoing the roof completely -- a year later, not
because the shingles were bad but because of the really sloppy
installation and the failure to use the contracted 6 nails/shingle
versus the usual 4/shingle..Be sure the company is authorized by the
single manufacturer so you'll have warranty coverage even if they go
belly-up, and ask if they use temporary crews, i.e., foreign workers,
often illegals, or only their own employees. Our roofing company said
they used no temporary crews, but the first crew was definitely
temporary, and when the roof was finally redone, every worker was a
full time employee, probably all supervisory because nobody was
younger than 45. Also the leader of the first crew was fired because
of the poor initial roofing job.

On Thursday, January 24, 2008 10:30:18 AM UTC-5, wrote:
John Albert wrote:
A roofer/siding guy who looked at things and gave me an
estimate mentioned something about "Timberline" or
"Timberlane" shingles as what he regularly used. Not sure of
the name; I have found a website for Timberline shingles but
not for "Timberlane".

I would call the guy and make him repeat himself, just to be clear.
This "Timberlane" may be some fly-by-night cut-rate shingle
manufacturer trying to play off the good name of Timberline.
Timberlane, Timberline, same difference, right? NOT NECESSARILY.

Would anyone comment on the longevity of 3-tab vis-a-vis the
"architectural" type shingles? Was he telling me the truth?

I would advise against hiring this roofer. You should not have
questions like this if he was doing his job. He should have shown you
the difference between the shingles, the available colors.

And even more importantly he should have given the OP
a written quote. Only then can you compare one quote to another,
see what some guys may be leaving out, etc.

The shingles are probably Timberline. I would definitely go with
that type of arch shingle. They are substantially heavier, last
longer, have a nicer look and are what is being used today on all
the better homes with shingles. The cost of the shingles is about
30% more than a 3-tab. The rest of the materials, labor, etc is
the same, so it makes maybe a 10 -15% difference in the overall price.

On Sunday, July 14, 2013 7:57:36 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Wednesday, January 23, 2008 1:33:13 PM UTC-5, John Albert wrote:

Hello all -



I'm getting ready to have my roof replaced, and have some

questions pertaining to shingles.



A roofer/siding guy who looked at things and gave me an

estimate mentioned something about "Timberline" or

"Timberlane" shingles as what he regularly used. Not sure of

the name; I have found a website for Timberline shingles but

not for "Timberlane".



I had previously been considering what are commonly called

"3-tab" type shingles (I was interested in them because of

their "lay-flat" look), but he recommended that I NOT use

them, because they have a limited lifespan when compared to

other types of shingles.



I _think_ he was referring to what are called

"architectural" type shingles. He said they'll last longer

and come with a better warranty.



Would anyone comment on the longevity of 3-tab vis-a-vis the

"architectural" type shingles? Was he telling me the truth?



I'd also like to ask about shingle COLORS. I'd prefer a

charcoal or darker-colored roof, as the houses on either

side of me are grey and brown. Just something different.



But I was wondering about shingle color and heat transfer.

Will a darj roof "absorb" considerably more heat from the

summer sun? Or does it make little difference? If heat IS a

factor, I'll choose a lighter color. (Note: my attic has

insulation installed underneath the rafters, pretty

well-wrapped)



Thanks,

- John



i personally would use the 3 tab with a architectural look over any architectural shingle because they give the nice architectural look every one is after but unlike architectural with is pretty much two shingles compressed together

How do you get an architectural shingle look in a 3-tab? It's
the fact that architectural shingles are in part two shingles
together that gives them the thickness variation that makes the
architectural look.




so if installation is done incorrectly the will fall apart when the hotter weather starts to melt the tar strip on them iv been doing roofing for 10 years now and that is what iv learns

Then you should know that there is nothing about basic architectural
shingles, like Timberline, OC TruDef, etc that make them difficult to
install. Anyone doubting this can read the simple instruction that come
with the product. If you can't line up a shingle and put 4 nails in
the nailing locations, you shouldn't be doing roofing. If a roofer can't
handle an arch shingle, how is he going to do the harder stuff where you
can really screw up a job, eg flashing?



also having a attic fan over ridge vent would greatly increase the life span on any shingle and also lowers your cooling bill by 20-30% by truly sucking the hot air out of the attic space


Which has been disproven many times. Most experts today recommend ridge
vents over power fans. And for any choice of ridge vent, fan etc to have
a 20 -30% effect on cooling cost, the house would have to have no insulation.

How long are you planning on living in the home?

If it just a few years, as compared to someone who is 40 and planning on staying for rest of life, that can change your plans.

given the wild weather were getting I would go with the waterproof membrame over the entire roof, just or safetys sake.

definetly get the chimney with loose bricks rebuilt, with a new chimney mortar cap.... otherwise rain can get between the liner and bricks and when it freezes break the liner and have it fall in and block the flue.

you dont want any loose bricks hitting your nice new shinglers in a storm...

billy101289 @ gmail.com, while unnecessarily full-quoting a 6.5 year-old
usenet post, wrote:

i personally would use the 3 tab with a architectural look (...)

Why are you google-gropers so dumb as to be posting a reply to a
6-year-old post?

And did anyone else here notice that billy's post, even though it was
posted from google-gropes, was not double-spaced. ?

" wrote:

Agree that color isn't going to make a significant difference.

Lighter-colored shingles last longer, have lower surface temperature
than dark shingles.

And of course in northern climates, it's safe to assume that in
the winter with a darker roof you get some small benefit from a
darker roof that would lessen the effect even more.

Bull****.

As I've stated before, any heat-transfer that you *hope* exists in the
winter to gain attic heat into the house will bite your ass in the
summer as that same heat transfer will be an extra load on your AC.

Dark shingles in northern climates can add to the ice-damming effect
where snow melts on a dark roof, runs down to the eves where it's colder
and freezes, creating water backup under the shingles and huge icicles
hanging off gutters.

On Wednesday, January 23, 2008 11:33:13 AM UTC-7, John Albert wrote:
Hello all -I'm getting ready to have my roof replaced, and have some questions pertaining to shingles.A roofer/siding guy who looked at things and gave me an estimate mentioned something about "Timberline" or "Timberlane" shingles as what he regularly used. Not sure of the name; I have found a website for Timberline shingles but not for "Timberlane".I had previously been considering what are commonly called "3-tab" type shingles (I was interested in them because of their "lay-flat" look), but he recommended that I NOT use them, because they have a limited lifespan when compared to other types of shingles.I _think_ he was referring to what are called "architectural" type shingles. He said they'll last longer and come with a better warranty..Would anyone comment on the longevity of 3-tab vis-a-vis the "architectural" type shingles? Was he telling me the truth?I'd also like to ask about shingle COLORS. I'd prefer a charcoal or darker-colored roof, as the houses on either side of me are grey and brown. Just something different.But I was wondering about shingle color and heat transfer. Will a darj roof "absorb" considerably more heat from the summer sun? Or does it make little difference? If heat IS a factor, I'll choose a lighter color. (Note: my attic has insulation installed underneath the rafters, pretty well-wrapped)Thanks,- John

I recently built a workshop in the backyard, which was permitted and inspected by the city. When it came to shingling the roof, the city recommended Architectural style shingle, since they have a longer life span. They also required that I had to use 6 nails (instead of 3-4)for high winds. They actually came out and inspected it for the 6 nails.

On Monday, July 15, 2013 9:47:27 AM UTC-4, Home Guy wrote:
" wrote:



Agree that color isn't going to make a significant difference.



Lighter-colored shingles last longer, have lower surface temperature

than dark shingles.



Then show us a manufacturer's product line where the length of
the warranty is based on the color. And how good do light colored
shingles look after 10 or 15 years compared to dark ones. The few
light colored roofs around here look like hell in 5 - 10 years
because they show dirt far more than dark ones.





And of course in northern climates, it's safe to assume that in

the winter with a darker roof you get some small benefit from a

darker roof that would lessen the effect even more.



Bull****.

Why, just because you say so? If darker shingles make the attic a little
hotter, then the effect you have that increases cooling in summer will
reduce heating costs in winter.







As I've stated before, any heat-transfer that you *hope* exists in the

winter to gain attic heat into the house will bite your ass in the

summer as that same heat transfer will be an extra load on your AC.


Oh, so is it or isn't it BS, make up your mind.





Dark shingles in northern climates can add to the ice-damming effect

where snow melts on a dark roof, runs down to the eves where it's colder

and freezes, creating water backup under the shingles and huge icicles

hanging off gutters.


Yawn... Dark shingles are by far the most popular color in northern
climates, probably 90%+ of the roofs out there. There have been black
shingles on my roof for 30 years and no ice dams.

On 7/14/13 7:57 PM, wrote:
i personally would use the 3 tab with a architectural look over any architectural shingle because they give the nice architectural look every one is after but unlike architectural with is pretty much two shingles compressed together so if installation is done incorrectly the will fall apart when the hotter weather starts to melt the tar strip on them

Very interesting that you responded to a post I put up 5
years ago!

Actually, I put off doing the roof 4 more years. Had it done
in 2012 - I had the roofer put on the architectural shingles.

I was wondering how good the job was overall, then we had
the tropical storm Sandy blow through. Other houses on the
street had their shingles ripped up, but the roof I had put
on held tight.

The old roof had one layer of wooden, and at least two
layers of asphalt up there (I though there were only two
layers, but the guys doing the roof said "three"). The last
job had been done on the house in the year (or years)
preceding 1978. The old roof lasted from 1978 until 2012 -
34 years. It was getting pretty bad in spots, though. Some
of the "skip sheathes" were rotting over the garage.
Luckily, I had some 1x4 lengths of pine from an old model
railroad table I built in the 1970's, used them for patches
where needed!