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Wednesday, January 2, 2008


WEAPONS OF CHOICE
Shopper pulls gun, stops robbery cold
Held suspect at grocery store until police officers arrived

A grocery store customer in Indianapolis is being credited with
halting
an armed robbery by pulling his own weapon and pointing it at the
assailant until police arrived.

According to a report in the Indianapolis Star, Charlie Merrell, 51,
was
in a checkout line at a grocery store called Bucks IGA on the city's
south side when a "masked man jumped a nearby counter and held a gun
on
a store employee."

The police report cited by the newspaper said the incident happened
at
5:17 in the afternoon Monday as Merrell was doing some year-end
shopping.

"While the suspect was demanding cash from the workers," according to
the police report, "Merrell pulled his own handgun, pointed it at the
robber and ordered him to put down his weapon."

The newspaper noted that Officer Jason Bockting, in his documentation
of
the incident, said when the suspect seemed to hesitate, "Merrell
racked
the slide on his gun to load a round in the chamber."


At that point, the report said, "the suspect placed his gun and a bag
of
cash on the counter, dropping some of the money . the suspect removed
his mask and lay on the floor."


Merrill, meanwhile, held the suspect at gunpoint until officers
arrived
and took him away in handcuffs.

Police reported Merrell had a valid permit to carry the handgun, and
they recovered an unloaded .380-caliber handgun and $779 cash from
the
suspect.

Police records show Dwain Smith, 19, was being held in the Marion
County
Jail on a bond of $30,000 on initial charges of robbery, criminal
confinement, pointing a firearm, battery and carrying a handgun
without
a license.

-------------------------------------------------
Outstanding that the robbery was stopped by a CCW person.

That person needs a bit of instructions on using a weapon for such
things.

What was he doing pointing an unloaded weapon at the robber?

Lesson#1 - never point a gun at someone unless you plan to use it.

My first thought when reading this was that everyone there was lucky.
Had the robber's gun been loaded I can see an entirely different
ending.

Harry K

Harry K

"Harry K" wrote in message
...
| This is a WorldNetDaily printer-friendly version of the article which
| follows.
| To view this item online, visit
| http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=59503
|
| Wednesday, January 2, 2008
|
|
| WEAPONS OF CHOICE
| Shopper pulls gun, stops robbery cold
| Held suspect at grocery store until police officers arrived
|
| A grocery store customer in Indianapolis is being credited with
| halting
| an armed robbery by pulling his own weapon and pointing it at the
| assailant until police arrived.
|
| According to a report in the Indianapolis Star, Charlie Merrell, 51,
| was
| in a checkout line at a grocery store called Bucks IGA on the city's
| south side when a "masked man jumped a nearby counter and held a gun
| on
| a store employee."
|
| The police report cited by the newspaper said the incident happened
| at
| 5:17 in the afternoon Monday as Merrell was doing some year-end
| shopping.
|
| "While the suspect was demanding cash from the workers," according to
| the police report, "Merrell pulled his own handgun, pointed it at the
| robber and ordered him to put down his weapon."
|
| The newspaper noted that Officer Jason Bockting, in his documentation
| of
| the incident, said when the suspect seemed to hesitate, "Merrell
| racked
| the slide on his gun to load a round in the chamber."
|
|
| At that point, the report said, "the suspect placed his gun and a bag
| of
| cash on the counter, dropping some of the money . the suspect removed
| his mask and lay on the floor."
|
|
| Merrill, meanwhile, held the suspect at gunpoint until officers
| arrived
| and took him away in handcuffs.
|
| Police reported Merrell had a valid permit to carry the handgun, and
| they recovered an unloaded .380-caliber handgun and $779 cash from
| the
| suspect.
|
| Police records show Dwain Smith, 19, was being held in the Marion
| County
| Jail on a bond of $30,000 on initial charges of robbery, criminal
| confinement, pointing a firearm, battery and carrying a handgun
| without
| a license.
|
| -------------------------------------------------
| Outstanding that the robbery was stopped by a CCW person.
|
| That person needs a bit of instructions on using a weapon for such
| things.
|
| What was he doing pointing an unloaded weapon at the robber?

I don't see anything in the article that indicates that his weapon was
unloaded. Many times I will rack just to make sure. So, perhaps he ejected
one while injecting another. Maybe he racked for effect. Lots of ifs and
maybes here. Anyhow, all's well that ends well.

In article ,
"JC" wrote:


I don't see anything in the article that indicates that his weapon was
unloaded. Many times I will rack just to make sure. So, perhaps he ejected
one while injecting another. Maybe he racked for effect. Lots of ifs and
maybes here. Anyhow, all's well that ends well.

The robber's weapon was unloaded.

"Kurt Ullman" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"JC" wrote:


I don't see anything in the article that indicates that his weapon was
unloaded. Many times I will rack just to make sure. So, perhaps he
ejected
one while injecting another. Maybe he racked for effect. Lots of ifs and
maybes here. Anyhow, all's well that ends well.

The robber's weapon was unloaded.


That's irrelevant.

In article ,
"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:

"Kurt Ullman" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"JC" wrote:


I don't see anything in the article that indicates that his weapon was
unloaded. Many times I will rack just to make sure. So, perhaps he
ejected
one while injecting another. Maybe he racked for effect. Lots of ifs and
maybes here. Anyhow, all's well that ends well.

The robber's weapon was unloaded.


That's irrelevant.

Pay attention now, old son(g). From the post it appeared as though
the person was confused who had the loaded and/or unloaded gun. I was
merely attempting to allay that confusion. Which made the comment
overwhelmingly relevant in the conversation (not to mention damn pithy,
too).

Kurt Ullman wrote in
:

In article ,
"JC" wrote:


I don't see anything in the article that indicates that his weapon
was unloaded. Many times I will rack just to make sure. So, perhaps
he ejected one while injecting another. Maybe he racked for effect.
Lots of ifs and maybes here. Anyhow, all's well that ends well.

The robber's weapon was unloaded.

Quote;
The newspaper noted that Officer Jason Bockting, in his documentation
of
the incident, said when the suspect seemed to hesitate, "Merrell
racked
the slide on his gun to load a round in the chamber."

endquote

"to load a round in the chamber";not "load another round".
Sounds empty to me.

Merrell could easily have been shot while racking the slide.
that is an "effect"....not a good one,though.

I would have just shot the robber;2 rounds to the center of body.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

"Jim Yanik" wrote in message
...
| Kurt Ullman wrote in
| :
|
| In article ,
| "JC" wrote:
|
|
| I don't see anything in the article that indicates that his weapon
| was unloaded. Many times I will rack just to make sure. So, perhaps
| he ejected one while injecting another. Maybe he racked for effect.
| Lots of ifs and maybes here. Anyhow, all's well that ends well.
|
| The robber's weapon was unloaded.
|
| Quote;
| The newspaper noted that Officer Jason Bockting, in his documentation
| of
| the incident, said when the suspect seemed to hesitate, "Merrell
| racked
| the slide on his gun to load a round in the chamber."
|
| endquote
|
| "to load a round in the chamber";not "load another round".
| Sounds empty to me.
|
| Merrell could easily have been shot while racking the slide.
| that is an "effect"....not a good one,though.
|
| I would have just shot the robber;2 rounds to the center of body.

Yeah, well I've shot someone before. How many have you shot?

On Thu, 03 Jan 2008 19:19:04 GMT, "JC"
wrote:

| I would have just shot the robber;2 rounds to the center of body.

Yeah, well I've shot someone before. How many have you shot?

But! Did you kill?

Oren
--

Jim Yanik wrote:

SNIP


I would have just shot the robber;2 rounds to the center of body.


You might want to think about that. Incident was in Indiana, IIRC, not
Texas.

In article , jJim McLaughlin wrote:
Jim Yanik wrote:

SNIP


I would have just shot the robber;2 rounds to the center of body.


You might want to think about that. Incident was in Indiana, IIRC, not
Texas.

Not a problem. Indiana law allows the use of deadly force not only in
self-defense, but in the defense of others also.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

In article ,
jJim McLaughlin wrote:

Jim Yanik wrote:

SNIP


I would have just shot the robber;2 rounds to the center of body.


You might want to think about that. Incident was in Indiana, IIRC, not
Texas.

Indiana is similar, as far as I know. What part do you think would
have been different in IN?

In article ,
Jim Yanik wrote:

Kurt Ullman wrote in
:

In article ,
"JC" wrote:


I don't see anything in the article that indicates that his weapon
was unloaded. Many times I will rack just to make sure. So, perhaps
he ejected one while injecting another. Maybe he racked for effect.
Lots of ifs and maybes here. Anyhow, all's well that ends well.

The robber's weapon was unloaded.

Quote;
The newspaper noted that Officer Jason Bockting, in his documentation
of
the incident, said when the suspect seemed to hesitate, "Merrell
racked
the slide on his gun to load a round in the chamber."

endquote

"to load a round in the chamber";not "load another round".
Sounds empty to me.

When I was doing my quals training as a reserve deputy in the late
70s, unloaded was generally nothing at all in the firearm. Not having a
round in the chamber was scoffed at in this context, probably less so in
a civilian, but was still considered loaded. Don't know if usage has
changed any in the meantime.



Merrell could easily have been shot while racking the slide.
that is an "effect"....not a good one,though.

I would have just shot the robber;2 rounds to the center of body.

Two in the torso, one in the head. You are now safe and the bad guy
is now dead.

"Kurt Ullman" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Jim Yanik wrote:

Kurt Ullman wrote in
:

In article ,
"JC" wrote:


I don't see anything in the article that indicates that his weapon
was unloaded. Many times I will rack just to make sure. So, perhaps
he ejected one while injecting another. Maybe he racked for effect.
Lots of ifs and maybes here. Anyhow, all's well that ends well.

The robber's weapon was unloaded.

Quote;
The newspaper noted that Officer Jason Bockting, in his documentation
of
the incident, said when the suspect seemed to hesitate, "Merrell
racked
the slide on his gun to load a round in the chamber."

endquote

"to load a round in the chamber";not "load another round".
Sounds empty to me.

When I was doing my quals training as a reserve deputy in the late
70s, unloaded was generally nothing at all in the firearm. Not having a
round in the chamber was scoffed at in this context, probably less so in
a civilian, but was still considered loaded. Don't know if usage has
changed any in the meantime.



Merrell could easily have been shot while racking the slide.
that is an "effect"....not a good one,though.

I would have just shot the robber;2 rounds to the center of body.

Two in the torso, one in the head. You are now safe and the bad guy
is now dead.


You know what's funny, though? I've noticed in the news that a lot of
people who get shot in the face are described as having non life threatening
injuries. Of course, that's all the info we get, so we don't know what
caliber they were shot with.

Still, it's strange.

Kurt Ullman wrote in news:kurtullman-
:

In article ,
Jim Yanik wrote:

Kurt Ullman wrote in
:

In article ,
"JC" wrote:


I don't see anything in the article that indicates that his weapon
was unloaded. Many times I will rack just to make sure. So, perhaps
he ejected one while injecting another. Maybe he racked for effect.
Lots of ifs and maybes here. Anyhow, all's well that ends well.

The robber's weapon was unloaded.

Quote;
The newspaper noted that Officer Jason Bockting, in his documentation
of
the incident, said when the suspect seemed to hesitate, "Merrell
racked
the slide on his gun to load a round in the chamber."

endquote

"to load a round in the chamber";not "load another round".
Sounds empty to me.

When I was doing my quals training as a reserve deputy in the late
70s, unloaded was generally nothing at all in the firearm. Not having a
round in the chamber was scoffed at in this context, probably less so in
a civilian, but was still considered loaded. Don't know if usage has
changed any in the meantime.



Merrell could easily have been shot while racking the slide.
that is an "effect"....not a good one,though.

I would have just shot the robber;2 rounds to the center of body.

Two in the torso, one in the head. You are now safe and the bad guy
is now dead.


no,double tap,then EVALUATE.
doing a head shot after a double tap with the threat already neutralized is
murder.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

JC wrote:

I don't see anything in the article that indicates that his weapon was
unloaded. Many times I will rack just to make sure. So, perhaps he
ejected one while injecting another. Maybe he racked for effect. Lots
of ifs and maybes here. Anyhow, all's well that ends well.

I never carry with a live round in the chamber. It's a safety thing. If I
have to deploy, I would be racking and removing the safety.

--
Dave
www.davebbq.com

Dave Bugg wrote:
I never carry with a live round in the chamber. It's a safety thing. If I
have to deploy, I would be racking and removing the safety.


It depends on what you carry. I have a Kel-Tec P11 in 9mm that has no safety at
all and I carry it with one round up the snout. The P11 has about a 10 pound
trigger and there's no way you'll ever accidentally pop off a round, even with
adrenalin coursing through your system. It will take an active decision to
shoot. And even if the pistol were to jam (it doesn't) I know I'd get at least
the first round off without incident. And then I have 10 more rounds if I need
them....




--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

Mortimer Schnerd, RN wrote:
Dave Bugg wrote:
I never carry with a live round in the chamber. It's a safety thing.
If I have to deploy, I would be racking and removing the safety.

It depends on what you carry. ....snip

Otheres may prefer differently, but I carry sans chambered round with any
handgun I use. That's what I prefer. That's also the way I practice when I
shoot, so it has become second nature and doesn't slow me down in any real
world sense.
--
Dave
www.davebbq.com

Dave Bugg wrote:
It depends on what you carry. ....snip

Otheres may prefer differently, but I carry sans chambered round with any
handgun I use. That's what I prefer. That's also the way I practice when I
shoot, so it has become second nature and doesn't slow me down in any real
world sense.


It will if your weapon doesn't return to battery.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

"Dave Bugg" wrote in message
...
Mortimer Schnerd, RN wrote:
Dave Bugg wrote:
I never carry with a live round in the chamber. It's a safety thing.
If I have to deploy, I would be racking and removing the safety.

It depends on what you carry. ....snip

Otheres may prefer differently, but I carry sans chambered round with any
handgun I use. That's what I prefer. That's also the way I practice when I
shoot, so it has become second nature and doesn't slow me down in any real
world sense.
--
Dave
www.davebbq.com


Did you ever carry a revolver? If yes, did you leave one hole in the
cylinder empty?

"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com wrote in message
...
Dave Bugg wrote:
I never carry with a live round in the chamber. It's a safety thing. If I
have to deploy, I would be racking and removing the safety.


It depends on what you carry. I have a Kel-Tec P11 in 9mm that has no
safety at all and I carry it with one round up the snout. The P11 has
about a 10 pound trigger and there's no way you'll ever accidentally pop
off a round, even with adrenalin coursing through your system. It will
take an active decision to shoot. And even if the pistol were to jam (it
doesn't) I know I'd get at least the first round off without incident.
And then I have 10 more rounds if I need them....




--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

I've got the KelTec 3AT, and consider it very safe for the same reasons.

Steve

On Thu, 3 Jan 2008 19:02:13 -0800, "SteveB"
wrote:


"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com wrote in message
...
Dave Bugg wrote:
I never carry with a live round in the chamber. It's a safety thing. If I
have to deploy, I would be racking and removing the safety.


It depends on what you carry. I have a Kel-Tec P11 in 9mm that has no
safety at all and I carry it with one round up the snout. The P11 has
about a 10 pound trigger and there's no way you'll ever accidentally pop
off a round, even with adrenalin coursing through your system. It will
take an active decision to shoot. And even if the pistol were to jam (it
doesn't) I know I'd get at least the first round off without incident.
And then I have 10 more rounds if I need them....




--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

I've got the KelTec 3AT, and consider it very safe for the same reasons.

Steve


I like my revolver. I pull the trigger and she fires! No real safety
problems in 30 years


Oren
--

"Dave Bugg" wrote in
:

JC wrote:

I don't see anything in the article that indicates that his weapon
was unloaded. Many times I will rack just to make sure. So, perhaps
he ejected one while injecting another. Maybe he racked for effect.
Lots of ifs and maybes here. Anyhow, all's well that ends well.

I never carry with a live round in the chamber. It's a safety thing.
If I have to deploy, I would be racking and removing the safety.


police carry with a round in the chamber.So do I.
First shot is DA,a long,heavier trigger pull.(on my PA-63)
I suppose you could carry a revolver.

the best safety is the human holding the gun.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

Jim Yanik wrote:
"Dave Bugg" wrote in
:

JC wrote:

I don't see anything in the article that indicates that his weapon
was unloaded. Many times I will rack just to make sure. So, perhaps
he ejected one while injecting another. Maybe he racked for effect.
Lots of ifs and maybes here. Anyhow, all's well that ends well.

I never carry with a live round in the chamber. It's a safety thing.
If I have to deploy, I would be racking and removing the safety.


police carry with a round in the chamber.So do I.
First shot is DA,a long,heavier trigger pull.(on my PA-63)
I suppose you could carry a revolver.

Everyone has their preferences, and I have no truck with that one bit :-)

the best safety is the human holding the gun.

Amen.

--
Dave
www.davebbq.com

"Dave Bugg" wrote in message
...
JC wrote:

I don't see anything in the article that indicates that his weapon was
unloaded. Many times I will rack just to make sure. So, perhaps he
ejected one while injecting another. Maybe he racked for effect. Lots
of ifs and maybes here. Anyhow, all's well that ends well.

I never carry with a live round in the chamber. It's a safety thing. If I
have to deploy, I would be racking and removing the safety.

--
Dave
www.davebbq.com

All my CCW weapons are carried with a live round in the chamber. Why on
earth would one NOT have a live round in the chamber? Modern weapons have
new designs where they will not discharge if dropped on the hammer. On
older weapons, that was why it was carried on a dry hole. With some
semiautos, it takes quite a bit of effort to load the first shell. And a
bit of time, too, which could make all the difference. I carry my semi-auto
with one in the chamber, hammer down, with 17 behind it. It takes a full
trigger squeeze to fire the first round, and then it will shoot as fast as
you can pull the trigger.

Carrying on empty? What do you do, say wait a minute while I load?

Steve

SteveB wrote:
"Dave Bugg" wrote in message
...
JC wrote:

I don't see anything in the article that indicates that his weapon
was unloaded. Many times I will rack just to make sure. So, perhaps
he ejected one while injecting another. Maybe he racked for effect.
Lots of ifs and maybes here. Anyhow, all's well that ends well.

I never carry with a live round in the chamber. It's a safety thing.
If I have to deploy, I would be racking and removing the safety.

--
Dave
www.davebbq.com

All my CCW weapons are carried with a live round in the chamber.

Good for you.

Why
on earth would one NOT have a live round in the chamber?

Personal choice.

Modern
weapons have new designs where they will not discharge if dropped on
the hammer.

Yeah, I know. Doesn't affect how *I* want to carry.

On older weapons, that was why it was carried on a dry
hole. With some semiautos, it takes quite a bit of effort to load
the first shell.

Not with my Baretta.

And a bit of time, too, which could make all the
difference.

Not really.

I carry my semi-auto with one in the chamber, hammer
down, with 17 behind it. It takes a full trigger squeeze to fire the
first round, and then it will shoot as fast as you can pull the
trigger.

Double actions tend do do that.

Carrying on empty? What do you do, say wait a minute while I load?

A minute? I'm racking as I'm clearing my holster. If it takes you a minute
to make a simple movement then it makes sense for you to carry with a round
in the chamber. Personal choice in the way anyone chooses to carry is just
that....personal choice. I'd appreciate it if those who choose to do it
differently than I do to knock off the criticism and be happy with their own
choices.
--
Dave
www.davebbq.com

"Dave Bugg" wrote in message
...
SteveB wrote:
"Dave Bugg" wrote in message
...
JC wrote:

I don't see anything in the article that indicates that his weapon
was unloaded. Many times I will rack just to make sure. So, perhaps
he ejected one while injecting another. Maybe he racked for effect.
Lots of ifs and maybes here. Anyhow, all's well that ends well.

I never carry with a live round in the chamber. It's a safety thing.
If I have to deploy, I would be racking and removing the safety.

--
Dave
www.davebbq.com

All my CCW weapons are carried with a live round in the chamber.

Good for you.

Why
on earth would one NOT have a live round in the chamber?

Personal choice.

Modern
weapons have new designs where they will not discharge if dropped on
the hammer.

Yeah, I know. Doesn't affect how *I* want to carry.

On older weapons, that was why it was carried on a dry
hole. With some semiautos, it takes quite a bit of effort to load
the first shell.

Not with my Baretta.

And a bit of time, too, which could make all the
difference.

Not really.

I carry my semi-auto with one in the chamber, hammer
down, with 17 behind it. It takes a full trigger squeeze to fire the
first round, and then it will shoot as fast as you can pull the
trigger.

Double actions tend do do that.

Carrying on empty? What do you do, say wait a minute while I load?

A minute? I'm racking as I'm clearing my holster. If it takes you a minute
to make a simple movement then it makes sense for you to carry with a
round in the chamber. Personal choice in the way anyone chooses to carry
is just that....personal choice. I'd appreciate it if those who choose to
do it differently than I do to knock off the criticism and be happy with
their own choices.
--
Dave
www.davebbq.com


I'll confess to carrying with the chamber empty sometimes, and other times,
with one in the chamber. It's a Kahr K-40, so there's no safety. My criteria
for deciding how to carry at any given time are so complex that I'd rather
not try and explain. But, it has nothing whatsoever to do with the
likelihood of the gun being dropped.

"Dave Bugg" wrote in
:

SteveB wrote:
Carrying on empty? What do you do, say wait a minute while I load?

A minute? I'm racking as I'm clearing my holster. If it takes you a
minute to make a simple movement then it makes sense for you to carry
with a round in the chamber. Personal choice in the way anyone chooses
to carry is just that....personal choice. I'd appreciate it if those
who choose to do it differently than I do to knock off the criticism
and be happy with their own choices.

racking as you clear the holster sounds like a good way to have an
accidental discharge. ever hear the term "slam-fire"?

it also requires you have both hands free.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

On Jan 3, 11:24*am, Harry K wrote:
This is a WorldNetDaily printer-friendly version of the article which
follows.
To view this item online, visithttp://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=59503

Wednesday, January 2, 2008

WEAPONS OF CHOICE
Shopper pulls gun, stops robbery cold
Held suspect at grocery store until police officers arrived

A grocery store customer in Indianapolis is being credited with
halting
an armed robbery by pulling his own weapon and pointing it at the
assailant until police arrived.

According to a report in the Indianapolis Star, Charlie Merrell, 51,
was
in a checkout line at a grocery store called Bucks IGA on the city's
south side when a "masked man jumped a nearby counter and held a gun
on
a store employee."

The police report cited by the newspaper said the incident happened
at
5:17 in the afternoon Monday as Merrell was doing some year-end
shopping.

"While the suspect was demanding cash from the workers," according to
the police report, "Merrell pulled his own handgun, pointed it at the
robber and ordered him to put down his weapon."

The newspaper noted that Officer Jason Bockting, in his documentation
of
the incident, said when the suspect seemed to hesitate, "Merrell
racked
the slide on his gun to load a round in the chamber."

At that point, the report said, "the suspect placed his gun and a bag
of
cash on the counter, dropping some of the money . the suspect removed
his mask and lay on the floor."

Merrill, meanwhile, held the suspect at gunpoint until officers
arrived
and took him away in handcuffs.

Police reported Merrell had a valid permit to carry the handgun, and
they recovered an unloaded .380-caliber handgun and $779 cash from
the
suspect.

Police records show Dwain Smith, 19, was being held in the Marion
County
Jail on a bond of $30,000 on initial charges of robbery, criminal
confinement, pointing a firearm, battery and carrying a handgun
without
a license.

-------------------------------------------------
Outstanding that the robbery was stopped by a CCW person.

That person needs a bit of instructions on using a weapon for such
things.

What was he doing pointing an unloaded weapon at the robber?

Lesson#1 - never point a gun at someone unless you plan to use it.

My first thought when reading this was that everyone there was lucky.
Had the robber's gun been loaded I can see an entirely different
ending.

Harry K

Harry K

Lesson#1 - never point a gun at someone unless you plan to use
it.

I guess that goes for the robber also.

What was he doing pointing an unloaded gun at the employee?

In article
,
DerbyDad03 wrote:

What was he doing pointing an unloaded gun at the employee?

A couple of my cops friends said there is sorta an urban legend
amongst crooks that if the gun isn't loaded then they think they can't
be charged with armed robbery and they will avoid the extra jail time.
Boy are they mistaken

Kurt Ullman wrote:

In article
,
DerbyDad03 wrote:


What was he doing pointing an unloaded gun at the employee?


A couple of my cops friends said there is sorta an urban legend
amongst crooks that if the gun isn't loaded then they think they can't
be charged with armed robbery and they will avoid the extra jail time.
Boy are they mistaken

It is still armed robbery even if the gun is a toy. Or if the
robber just has his finger under a jacket. If the employee
thinks its a gun, it is armed robbery.

--
Robert Allison
Rimshot, Inc.
Georgetown, TX

Kurt Ullman wrote in news:kurtullman-
:

In article
,
DerbyDad03 wrote:

What was he doing pointing an unloaded gun at the employee?

A couple of my cops friends said there is sorta an urban legend
amongst crooks that if the gun isn't loaded then they think they can't
be charged with armed robbery and they will avoid the extra jail time.
Boy are they mistaken



point an "unloaded" or toy gun at a police officer,and they WILL shoot you
without question. Civilians who have shot crooks armed with "unloaded" or
toy guns have had their shoots ruled "OK".
You have no way of knowing that the gun is really unloaded,and must treat
it as a real threat. Same for realistic toy guns.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

Harry K wrote in news:8969eafc-3fa4-4a92-bb75-
:

This is a WorldNetDaily printer-friendly version of the article which
follows.
To view this item online, visit
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=59503

Wednesday, January 2, 2008


WEAPONS OF CHOICE
Shopper pulls gun, stops robbery cold
Held suspect at grocery store until police officers arrived

A grocery store customer in Indianapolis is being credited with
halting
an armed robbery by pulling his own weapon and pointing it at the
assailant until police arrived.

According to a report in the Indianapolis Star, Charlie Merrell, 51,
was
in a checkout line at a grocery store called Bucks IGA on the city's
south side when a "masked man jumped a nearby counter and held a gun
on
a store employee."

The police report cited by the newspaper said the incident happened
at
5:17 in the afternoon Monday as Merrell was doing some year-end
shopping.

"While the suspect was demanding cash from the workers," according to
the police report, "Merrell pulled his own handgun, pointed it at the
robber and ordered him to put down his weapon."

The newspaper noted that Officer Jason Bockting, in his documentation
of
the incident, said when the suspect seemed to hesitate, "Merrell
racked
the slide on his gun to load a round in the chamber."

YIKES!


At that point, the report said, "the suspect placed his gun and a bag
of
cash on the counter, dropping some of the money . the suspect removed
his mask and lay on the floor."


Merrill, meanwhile, held the suspect at gunpoint until officers
arrived
and took him away in handcuffs.

Police reported Merrell had a valid permit to carry the handgun, and
they recovered an unloaded .380-caliber handgun and $779 cash from
the
suspect.

Police records show Dwain Smith, 19, was being held in the Marion
County
Jail on a bond of $30,000 on initial charges of robbery, criminal
confinement, pointing a firearm, battery and carrying a handgun
without
a license.

-------------------------------------------------
Outstanding that the robbery was stopped by a CCW person.

That person needs a bit of instructions on using a weapon for such
things.

What was he doing pointing an unloaded weapon at the robber?

Insanity.He probably realized it after he drew....

Lesson#1 - never point a gun at someone unless you plan to use it.

My first thought when reading this was that everyone there was lucky.
Had the robber's gun been loaded I can see an entirely different
ending.

Harry K

Harry K


I recall reading about a customer in a similar situation who drew his
concealed handgun and yelled "halt" to stop a robber,and the robber spun
and shot him dead.


--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

"Jim Yanik" wrote in message
...
Harry K wrote in news:8969eafc-3fa4-4a92-bb75-
:

This is a WorldNetDaily printer-friendly version of the article which
follows.
To view this item online, visit
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=59503

Wednesday, January 2, 2008


WEAPONS OF CHOICE
Shopper pulls gun, stops robbery cold
Held suspect at grocery store until police officers arrived

A grocery store customer in Indianapolis is being credited with
halting
an armed robbery by pulling his own weapon and pointing it at the
assailant until police arrived.

According to a report in the Indianapolis Star, Charlie Merrell, 51,
was
in a checkout line at a grocery store called Bucks IGA on the city's
south side when a "masked man jumped a nearby counter and held a gun
on
a store employee."

The police report cited by the newspaper said the incident happened
at
5:17 in the afternoon Monday as Merrell was doing some year-end
shopping.

"While the suspect was demanding cash from the workers," according to
the police report, "Merrell pulled his own handgun, pointed it at the
robber and ordered him to put down his weapon."

The newspaper noted that Officer Jason Bockting, in his documentation
of
the incident, said when the suspect seemed to hesitate, "Merrell
racked
the slide on his gun to load a round in the chamber."

YIKES!


At that point, the report said, "the suspect placed his gun and a bag
of
cash on the counter, dropping some of the money . the suspect removed
his mask and lay on the floor."


Merrill, meanwhile, held the suspect at gunpoint until officers
arrived
and took him away in handcuffs.

Police reported Merrell had a valid permit to carry the handgun, and
they recovered an unloaded .380-caliber handgun and $779 cash from
the
suspect.

Police records show Dwain Smith, 19, was being held in the Marion
County
Jail on a bond of $30,000 on initial charges of robbery, criminal
confinement, pointing a firearm, battery and carrying a handgun
without
a license.

-------------------------------------------------
Outstanding that the robbery was stopped by a CCW person.

That person needs a bit of instructions on using a weapon for such
things.

What was he doing pointing an unloaded weapon at the robber?

Insanity.He probably realized it after he drew....

Lesson#1 - never point a gun at someone unless you plan to use it.

My first thought when reading this was that everyone there was lucky.
Had the robber's gun been loaded I can see an entirely different
ending.

Harry K

Harry K


I recall reading about a customer in a similar situation who drew his
concealed handgun and yelled "halt" to stop a robber,and the robber spun
and shot him dead.


Darwin Award.

A gun alone doesn't guarantee tactical superiority of a situation.

To quote Kenny Rogers

"You gotta know when to hold em,
know when to fold em,
Know when to walk away,
and know when to run

Now evry gambler knows that the secret to survivin
Is knowin what to throw away and knowin what to keep.
cause evry hands a winner and evry hands a loser,
And the best that you can hope for is to die in your sleep"

a civilian CCW holder pulling a gun on a robbery,
that doesn't involve them directly - is rolling the
dice - (tactically speaking).

may turn out fine, may not.

and what the hell does all this have to do with
home repair ???????

On Jan 3, 1:33*pm, "TomCat" wrote:
"Jim Yanik" wrote in message

...





Harry K wrote in news:8969eafc-3fa4-4a92-bb75-
:

This is a WorldNetDaily printer-friendly version of the article which
follows.
To view this item online, visit
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=59503

Wednesday, January 2, 2008

WEAPONS OF CHOICE
Shopper pulls gun, stops robbery cold
Held suspect at grocery store until police officers arrived

A grocery store customer in Indianapolis is being credited with
halting
an armed robbery by pulling his own weapon and pointing it at the
assailant until police arrived.

According to a report in the Indianapolis Star, Charlie Merrell, 51,
was
in a checkout line at a grocery store called Bucks IGA on the city's
south side when a "masked man jumped a nearby counter and held a gun
on
a store employee."

The police report cited by the newspaper said the incident happened
at
5:17 in the afternoon Monday as Merrell was doing some year-end
shopping.

"While the suspect was demanding cash from the workers," according to
the police report, "Merrell pulled his own handgun, pointed it at the
robber and ordered him to put down his weapon."

The newspaper noted that Officer Jason Bockting, in his documentation
of
the incident, said when the suspect seemed to hesitate, "Merrell
racked
the slide on his gun to load a round in the chamber."

YIKES!

At that point, the report said, "the suspect placed his gun and a bag
of
cash on the counter, dropping some of the money . the suspect removed
his mask and lay on the floor."

Merrill, meanwhile, held the suspect at gunpoint until officers
arrived
and took him away in handcuffs.

Police reported Merrell had a valid permit to carry the handgun, and
they recovered an unloaded .380-caliber handgun and $779 cash from
the
suspect.

Police records show Dwain Smith, 19, was being held in the Marion
County
Jail on a bond of $30,000 on initial charges of robbery, criminal
confinement, pointing a firearm, battery and carrying a handgun
without
a license.

-------------------------------------------------
Outstanding that the robbery was stopped by a CCW person.

That person needs a bit of instructions on using a weapon for such
things.

What was he doing pointing an unloaded weapon at the robber?

Insanity.He probably realized it after he drew....

Lesson#1 - never point a gun at someone unless you plan to use it.

My first thought when reading this was that everyone there was lucky.
Had the robber's gun been loaded I can see an entirely different
ending.

Harry K

Harry K

I recall reading about a customer in a similar situation who drew his
concealed handgun and yelled "halt" to stop a robber,and the robber spun
and shot him dead.

Darwin Award.

A gun alone doesn't guarantee tactical superiority of a situation.

To quote Kenny Rogers

"You gotta know when to hold em,
know when to fold em,
Know when to walk away,
and know when to run

Now evry gambler knows that the secret to survivin
Is knowin what to throw away and knowin what to keep.
cause evry hands a winner and evry hands a loser,
And the best that you can hope for is to die in your sleep"

a civilian CCW holder pulling a gun on a robbery,
that doesn't involve them directly - is rolling the
dice - (tactically speaking).

may turn out fine, may not.

and what the hell does all this have to do with
home repair ???????- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

what the hell does all this have to do with home repair?

The robber was trying to steal money so he could hire a contractor to
fix his house. D*mn, those guys charge a lot these days!

"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
...
On Jan 3, 1:33 pm, "TomCat" wrote:
"Jim Yanik" wrote in message

...





Harry K wrote in news:8969eafc-3fa4-4a92-bb75-
:

This is a WorldNetDaily printer-friendly version of the article which
follows.
To view this item online, visit
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=59503

Wednesday, January 2, 2008

WEAPONS OF CHOICE
Shopper pulls gun, stops robbery cold
Held suspect at grocery store until police officers arrived

A grocery store customer in Indianapolis is being credited with
halting
an armed robbery by pulling his own weapon and pointing it at the
assailant until police arrived.

According to a report in the Indianapolis Star, Charlie Merrell, 51,
was
in a checkout line at a grocery store called Bucks IGA on the city's
south side when a "masked man jumped a nearby counter and held a gun
on
a store employee."

The police report cited by the newspaper said the incident happened
at
5:17 in the afternoon Monday as Merrell was doing some year-end
shopping.

"While the suspect was demanding cash from the workers," according to
the police report, "Merrell pulled his own handgun, pointed it at the
robber and ordered him to put down his weapon."

The newspaper noted that Officer Jason Bockting, in his documentation
of
the incident, said when the suspect seemed to hesitate, "Merrell
racked
the slide on his gun to load a round in the chamber."

YIKES!

At that point, the report said, "the suspect placed his gun and a bag
of
cash on the counter, dropping some of the money . the suspect removed
his mask and lay on the floor."

Merrill, meanwhile, held the suspect at gunpoint until officers
arrived
and took him away in handcuffs.

Police reported Merrell had a valid permit to carry the handgun, and
they recovered an unloaded .380-caliber handgun and $779 cash from
the
suspect.

Police records show Dwain Smith, 19, was being held in the Marion
County
Jail on a bond of $30,000 on initial charges of robbery, criminal
confinement, pointing a firearm, battery and carrying a handgun
without
a license.

-------------------------------------------------
Outstanding that the robbery was stopped by a CCW person.

That person needs a bit of instructions on using a weapon for such
things.

What was he doing pointing an unloaded weapon at the robber?

Insanity.He probably realized it after he drew....

Lesson#1 - never point a gun at someone unless you plan to use it.

My first thought when reading this was that everyone there was lucky.
Had the robber's gun been loaded I can see an entirely different
ending.

Harry K

Harry K

I recall reading about a customer in a similar situation who drew his
concealed handgun and yelled "halt" to stop a robber,and the robber spun
and shot him dead.

Darwin Award.

A gun alone doesn't guarantee tactical superiority of a situation.

To quote Kenny Rogers

"You gotta know when to hold em,
know when to fold em,
Know when to walk away,
and know when to run

Now evry gambler knows that the secret to survivin
Is knowin what to throw away and knowin what to keep.
cause evry hands a winner and evry hands a loser,
And the best that you can hope for is to die in your sleep"

a civilian CCW holder pulling a gun on a robbery,
that doesn't involve them directly - is rolling the
dice - (tactically speaking).

may turn out fine, may not.

and what the hell does all this have to do with
home repair ???????- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

what the hell does all this have to do with home repair?

I put it right up there with all the "Cheap Brand Jewelry" crap on here.

"JC" wrote in message
...

"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
...
On Jan 3, 1:33 pm, "TomCat" wrote:
"Jim Yanik" wrote in message

...





Harry K wrote in
news:8969eafc-3fa4-4a92-bb75-
:

This is a WorldNetDaily printer-friendly version of the article which
follows.
To view this item online, visit
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=59503

Wednesday, January 2, 2008

WEAPONS OF CHOICE
Shopper pulls gun, stops robbery cold
Held suspect at grocery store until police officers arrived

A grocery store customer in Indianapolis is being credited with
halting
an armed robbery by pulling his own weapon and pointing it at the
assailant until police arrived.

According to a report in the Indianapolis Star, Charlie Merrell, 51,
was
in a checkout line at a grocery store called Bucks IGA on the city's
south side when a "masked man jumped a nearby counter and held a gun
on
a store employee."

The police report cited by the newspaper said the incident happened
at
5:17 in the afternoon Monday as Merrell was doing some year-end
shopping.

"While the suspect was demanding cash from the workers," according to
the police report, "Merrell pulled his own handgun, pointed it at the
robber and ordered him to put down his weapon."

The newspaper noted that Officer Jason Bockting, in his documentation
of
the incident, said when the suspect seemed to hesitate, "Merrell
racked
the slide on his gun to load a round in the chamber."

YIKES!

At that point, the report said, "the suspect placed his gun and a bag
of
cash on the counter, dropping some of the money . the suspect removed
his mask and lay on the floor."

Merrill, meanwhile, held the suspect at gunpoint until officers
arrived
and took him away in handcuffs.

Police reported Merrell had a valid permit to carry the handgun, and
they recovered an unloaded .380-caliber handgun and $779 cash from
the
suspect.

Police records show Dwain Smith, 19, was being held in the Marion
County
Jail on a bond of $30,000 on initial charges of robbery, criminal
confinement, pointing a firearm, battery and carrying a handgun
without
a license.

-------------------------------------------------
Outstanding that the robbery was stopped by a CCW person.

That person needs a bit of instructions on using a weapon for such
things.

What was he doing pointing an unloaded weapon at the robber?

Insanity.He probably realized it after he drew....

Lesson#1 - never point a gun at someone unless you plan to use it.

My first thought when reading this was that everyone there was lucky.
Had the robber's gun been loaded I can see an entirely different
ending.

Harry K

Harry K

I recall reading about a customer in a similar situation who drew his
concealed handgun and yelled "halt" to stop a robber,and the robber
spun
and shot him dead.

Darwin Award.

A gun alone doesn't guarantee tactical superiority of a situation.

To quote Kenny Rogers

"You gotta know when to hold em,
know when to fold em,
Know when to walk away,
and know when to run

Now evry gambler knows that the secret to survivin
Is knowin what to throw away and knowin what to keep.
cause evry hands a winner and evry hands a loser,
And the best that you can hope for is to die in your sleep"

a civilian CCW holder pulling a gun on a robbery,
that doesn't involve them directly - is rolling the
dice - (tactically speaking).

may turn out fine, may not.

and what the hell does all this have to do with
home repair ???????- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

what the hell does all this have to do with home repair?

I put it right up there with all the "Cheap Brand Jewelry" crap on here.

Is it tough being a genius?

I mean, with a subject line like "CCW stops robbery ... lucky!", I can see
how a person of your IQ would confuse it with a thread about home repair and
continue to read on and be confused.

Steve

In article
,
DerbyDad03 wrote:


The robber was trying to steal money so he could hire a contractor to
fix his house. D*mn, those guys charge a lot these days!

Yep. Robbers still, just not armed (g)

"TomCat" wrote in message
. ..
|
| "Jim Yanik" wrote in message
| ...
| Harry K wrote in news:8969eafc-3fa4-4a92-bb75-
| :
|
| This is a WorldNetDaily printer-friendly version of the article which
| follows.
| To view this item online, visit
| http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=59503
|
| Wednesday, January 2, 2008
|
|
| WEAPONS OF CHOICE
| Shopper pulls gun, stops robbery cold
| Held suspect at grocery store until police officers arrived
|
| A grocery store customer in Indianapolis is being credited with
| halting
| an armed robbery by pulling his own weapon and pointing it at the
| assailant until police arrived.
|
| According to a report in the Indianapolis Star, Charlie Merrell, 51,
| was
| in a checkout line at a grocery store called Bucks IGA on the city's
| south side when a "masked man jumped a nearby counter and held a gun
| on
| a store employee."
|
| The police report cited by the newspaper said the incident happened
| at
| 5:17 in the afternoon Monday as Merrell was doing some year-end
| shopping.
|
| "While the suspect was demanding cash from the workers," according to
| the police report, "Merrell pulled his own handgun, pointed it at the
| robber and ordered him to put down his weapon."
|
| The newspaper noted that Officer Jason Bockting, in his documentation
| of
| the incident, said when the suspect seemed to hesitate, "Merrell
| racked
| the slide on his gun to load a round in the chamber."
|
| YIKES!
|
|
| At that point, the report said, "the suspect placed his gun and a bag
| of
| cash on the counter, dropping some of the money . the suspect removed
| his mask and lay on the floor."
|
|
| Merrill, meanwhile, held the suspect at gunpoint until officers
| arrived
| and took him away in handcuffs.
|
| Police reported Merrell had a valid permit to carry the handgun, and
| they recovered an unloaded .380-caliber handgun and $779 cash from
| the
| suspect.
|
| Police records show Dwain Smith, 19, was being held in the Marion
| County
| Jail on a bond of $30,000 on initial charges of robbery, criminal
| confinement, pointing a firearm, battery and carrying a handgun
| without
| a license.
|
| -------------------------------------------------
| Outstanding that the robbery was stopped by a CCW person.
|
| That person needs a bit of instructions on using a weapon for such
| things.
|
| What was he doing pointing an unloaded weapon at the robber?
|
| Insanity.He probably realized it after he drew....
|
| Lesson#1 - never point a gun at someone unless you plan to use it.
|
| My first thought when reading this was that everyone there was lucky.
| Had the robber's gun been loaded I can see an entirely different
| ending.
|
| Harry K
|
| Harry K
|
|
| I recall reading about a customer in a similar situation who drew his
| concealed handgun and yelled "halt" to stop a robber,and the robber spun
| and shot him dead.
|
|
| Darwin Award.
|
| A gun alone doesn't guarantee tactical superiority of a situation.
|
| To quote Kenny Rogers
|
| "You gotta know when to hold em,
| know when to fold em,
| Know when to walk away,
| and know when to run
|
| Now evry gambler knows that the secret to survivin
| Is knowin what to throw away and knowin what to keep.
| cause evry hands a winner and evry hands a loser,
| And the best that you can hope for is to die in your sleep"
|
| a civilian CCW holder pulling a gun on a robbery,
| that doesn't involve them directly - is rolling the
| dice - (tactically speaking).
|
| may turn out fine, may not.
|
| and what the hell does all this have to do with
| home repair ???????

It just more ideas for when you get a bad repairman.

TomCat wrote:
and what the hell does all this have to do with
home repair ???????


If you'd called a plumber or electrician to your house recently, you'd
understand that robbery is very much on topic around here!



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

I have my own opinions about things, but rarely participate in OT stuff
here, partly because I don't want to encourage OT threads, and partly
because I'm not all that interested in arguing with people who are too
stupid to see things my way. (you can imagine a smily emoticon here if
it makes you feel better.)

That said, here I am. When I think about the things that could have gone
wrong in that scenario, I think, I would not have pulled a gun. It seems
it was a simple robbery, and that no lives were directly in jeopardy.

A responsibility of gun owners is to decide *in advance* how they will
respond to various hypothetical situations. I wonder whether the
so-called hero of the story did that. If not, why not? If so, why did he
think it was a good idea, in a store full of innocent people, to play
the hero role to save a few hundred dollars of the store's money?

If the robber had done anything other than comply with the directive to
put the weapon down, things could have gotten very ugly very quickly,
with no real assurance that the bad guy is the one, or the only one, who
would have gotten perforated.