I have seen charging instructions that say to fully charge the battery
before first use.

A friend of mine just bought a cell phone. He took it home and
plugged into the charger and went online to activate it. He never
once looked at the manual.

I tried to tell him he should charge the phone fully first. He said
that only applies to devices that only work on battery only. Because
he had the phone plugged into the wall that it was ok to use right
away.

Who is right?

On Dec 17, 2:27 pm, Terry wrote:
I have seen charging instructions that say to fully charge the battery
before first use.

A friend of mine just bought a cell phone. He took it home and
plugged into the charger and went online to activate it. He never
once looked at the manual.

I tried to tell him he should charge the phone fully first. He said
that only applies to devices that only work on battery only. Because
he had the phone plugged into the wall that it was ok to use right
away.

Who is right?

He is

On Mon, 17 Dec 2007 15:27:50 -0500, Terry
wrote:

I have seen charging instructions that say to fully charge the battery
before first use.

A friend of mine just bought a cell phone. He took it home and
plugged into the charger and went online to activate it. He never
once looked at the manual.

I tried to tell him he should charge the phone fully first. He said
that only applies to devices that only work on battery only. Because
he had the phone plugged into the wall that it was ok to use right
away.

Who is right?

Your friend.

Most all cell phones use a lithium ion rechargeable battery. You
are told to charge it first so that your phone is more than just a
doorstop. Plugging the charger in and using the phone is perfectly
acceptable. The phone draws off the charger and not the battery.
This will not harm the Li-ion battery. The battery will just have to
wait its turn.

For cordless house phones the story is different. They use Ni-Cads
normally and sometimes NIMH batteries. They should be charged
fully after installation especially with the Ni-Cads. This full
initial charge is the best way to insure that the battery conditions
itself to accept full charges.

In article ,
wrote:

On Mon, 17 Dec 2007 15:27:50 -0500, Terry
wrote:

I have seen charging instructions that say to fully charge the battery
before first use.

A friend of mine just bought a cell phone. He took it home and
plugged into the charger and went online to activate it. He never
once looked at the manual.

I tried to tell him he should charge the phone fully first. He said
that only applies to devices that only work on battery only. Because
he had the phone plugged into the wall that it was ok to use right
away.

Who is right?

Your friend.

Most all cell phones use a lithium ion rechargeable battery. You
are told to charge it first so that your phone is more than just a
doorstop. Plugging the charger in and using the phone is perfectly
acceptable. The phone draws off the charger and not the battery.
This will not harm the Li-ion battery. The battery will just have to
wait its turn.

For cordless house phones the story is different. They use Ni-Cads
normally and sometimes NIMH batteries. They should be charged
fully after installation especially with the Ni-Cads. This full
initial charge is the best way to insure that the battery conditions
itself to accept full charges.

(And even that sorry old wives' tale about Ni-cad "memory" is full of
holes.)

(And even that sorry old wives' tale about Ni-cad "memory" is full of
holes.)

As far as using the term 'memory" yes, but Ni-Cads do
prefer full charges or varied charges over repeated light
charges. Repeated light charges will diminish the batteries
capacity. That fact is not full of holes.

using it whilst plugged in is ok. Hell, using it with the factory battery
not fully charged is ok. Not using it at all is ok. Charging it and not
using it is ok. Hell, who cares?

s


"Terry" wrote in message
...
I have seen charging instructions that say to fully charge the battery
before first use.

A friend of mine just bought a cell phone. He took it home and
plugged into the charger and went online to activate it. He never
once looked at the manual.

I tried to tell him he should charge the phone fully first. He said
that only applies to devices that only work on battery only. Because
he had the phone plugged into the wall that it was ok to use right
away.

Who is right?

In article ,
wrote:


(And even that sorry old wives' tale about Ni-cad "memory" is full of
holes.)

As far as using the term 'memory" yes, but Ni-Cads do
prefer full charges or varied charges over repeated light
charges. Repeated light charges will diminish the batteries
capacity. That fact is not full of holes.

The most you can deplete a ni-cad battery's full-charge voltage, by
subjecting it to less than perfect charge/discharge cycles, is a measly
5%. Can you name a battery-powered gadget that won't operate at 95% of
its design voltage?

On Mon, 17 Dec 2007 19:55:11 -0800, Smitty Two
wrote:

In article ,
wrote:


(And even that sorry old wives' tale about Ni-cad "memory" is full of
holes.)

As far as using the term 'memory" yes, but Ni-Cads do
prefer full charges or varied charges over repeated light
charges. Repeated light charges will diminish the batteries
capacity. That fact is not full of holes.

The most you can deplete a ni-cad battery's full-charge voltage, by
subjecting it to less than perfect charge/discharge cycles, is a measly
5%. Can you name a battery-powered gadget that won't operate at 95% of
its design voltage?

So Ni-Cads are perpetual voltage?

95% of voltage is NOT 95% of capacity.

If you've every used Ni-Cads you'd know they don't last forever.
You'd also know that premium battery chargers include battery
reconditioners that help to rejuvenate low capacity Ni-Cads.

In article ,
wrote:

On Mon, 17 Dec 2007 19:55:11 -0800, Smitty Two
wrote:

In article ,
wrote:


(And even that sorry old wives' tale about Ni-cad "memory" is full of
holes.)

As far as using the term 'memory" yes, but Ni-Cads do
prefer full charges or varied charges over repeated light
charges. Repeated light charges will diminish the batteries
capacity. That fact is not full of holes.

The most you can deplete a ni-cad battery's full-charge voltage, by
subjecting it to less than perfect charge/discharge cycles, is a measly
5%. Can you name a battery-powered gadget that won't operate at 95% of
its design voltage?

So Ni-Cads are perpetual voltage?

I don't really think you think I said that, so why are you saying it?


95% of voltage is NOT 95% of capacity.

I didn't say that, either. Capacity is rated in milliamp-hours, usually.
But a *full charge* is indeed measured in volts, which is what I said.
It's going to be difficult to have a discussion if you twist what I say
to suit your own reasons for postulating a different point of view.


If you've every used Ni-Cads you'd know they don't last forever.
You'd also know that premium battery chargers include battery
reconditioners that help to rejuvenate low capacity Ni-Cads.

Once you've killed a battery by any means, the guy who profits the most
from a "reconditioner" is the guy who sells it to you.

The most you can deplete a ni-cad battery's full-charge voltage, by
subjecting it to less than perfect charge/discharge cycles, is a measly
5%. Can you name a battery-powered gadget that won't operate at 95% of
its design voltage?

You seem to ignore that a battery under load may measure a different
voltage that you example above. Read below.

So Ni-Cads are perpetual voltage?

I don't really think you think I said that, so why are you saying it?

You suggested that a no load Ni-Cad at 95% voltage will run any
consumer device. It won't if the device draws a sizable current and
the Ni-Cad is in poor condition because of to many recharge cycles, or
repeated light charges. A N i-Cad in this condition will look good on
your voltmeter but will fail in use because of an immediate voltage
drop upon actual use.

95% of voltage is NOT 95% of capacity.

I didn't say that, either. Capacity is rated in milliamp-hours, usually.
But a *full charge* is indeed measured in volts, which is what I said.
It's going to be difficult to have a discussion if you twist what I say
to suit your own reasons for postulating a different point of view.

And milliamp-hours diminish with a poorly treated Ni-Cad. That is why
I pointed out that your no load 95% voltage Ni-Cad measurement is
useless. It doesn't tell us anything about the actual capacity.

In article ,
wrote:

The most you can deplete a ni-cad battery's full-charge voltage, by
subjecting it to less than perfect charge/discharge cycles, is a measly
5%. Can you name a battery-powered gadget that won't operate at 95% of
its design voltage?

You seem to ignore that a battery under load may measure a different
voltage that you example above. Read below.

So Ni-Cads are perpetual voltage?

I don't really think you think I said that, so why are you saying it?

You suggested that a no load Ni-Cad at 95% voltage will run any
consumer device. It won't if the device draws a sizable current and
the Ni-Cad is in poor condition because of to many recharge cycles, or
repeated light charges. A N i-Cad in this condition will look good on
your voltmeter but will fail in use because of an immediate voltage
drop upon actual use.

95% of voltage is NOT 95% of capacity.

I didn't say that, either. Capacity is rated in milliamp-hours, usually.
But a *full charge* is indeed measured in volts, which is what I said.
It's going to be difficult to have a discussion if you twist what I say
to suit your own reasons for postulating a different point of view.

And milliamp-hours diminish with a poorly treated Ni-Cad. That is why
I pointed out that your no load 95% voltage Ni-Cad measurement is
useless. It doesn't tell us anything about the actual capacity.

I'll accept my part in the miscommunication. I'm aware of load vs.
no-load differences, and never suggested otherwise. Certainly batteries
wear out.

Call it capacity if you like, or voltage at rated load, or whatever you
want -- a ni-cad suffers no more than 5% from being "mistreated" in it's
charge/discharge cycles. And any engineer who follows design parameters
without significantly more margin of error than that, is an idiot.

I still assert that the ni-cad charging "wisdom" is myth, period. And
you're still welcome to disagree, if you do. But you won't have science
on your side.

I still assert that the ni-cad charging "wisdom" is myth, period. And
you're still welcome to disagree, if you do. But you won't have science
on your side.

Well seeing how you already quoted Wikipedia on a Li-ion battery it
only seems fair to point you to the disadvantages of a Ni-Cad on the
same site.

Look at "usage patterns" and "false bottom"

Besides the quoted stuff anybody who has used Ni-cads throughout the
years (25 years and counting for me) knows that they can be finicky
as far as charge and recharge parameters are concerned.