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#1
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Using the push-in option (and no screw tighten) on outlets
OK - I've read the bitter vitriol in here used to describe the use of the
push-in option when wiring electrical outlets, but is there any study someone can point to that has tested the long term difference between the screw terminals and the push-in variety? All I hear is anecdotal - kinda like the resistance a few have for using PEX in plumbing. Aside from 'personal experience', is there any data? a |
#2
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Using the push-in option (and no screw tighten) on outlets
On Dec 15, 7:16�pm, a wrote:
OK - I've read the bitter vitriol in here used to describe the use of the push-in option when wiring electrical outlets, but is there any study someone can point to that has tested the long term difference between the screw terminals and the push-in variety? �All I hear is anecdotal - kinda like the resistance a few have for using PEX in plumbing. Aside from 'personal experience', is there any data? a I dont know but I have had one fail and will never use another one. when anything is the cheapest available its usually not a good deal. |
#3
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Using the push-in option (and no screw tighten) on outlets
On Sun, 16 Dec 2007 00:16:39 GMT, a wrote:
OK - I've read the bitter vitriol in here used to describe the use of the push-in option when wiring electrical outlets, but is there any study someone can point to that has tested the long term difference between the screw terminals and the push-in variety? All I hear is anecdotal - kinda like the resistance a few have for using PEX in plumbing. Aside from 'personal experience', is there any data? Use them and let us know. |
#4
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Using the push-in option (and no screw tighten) on outlets
In article ,
Terry wrote: On Sun, 16 Dec 2007 00:16:39 GMT, a wrote: OK - I've read the bitter vitriol in here used to describe the use of the push-in option when wiring electrical outlets, but is there any study someone can point to that has tested the long term difference between the screw terminals and the push-in variety? All I hear is anecdotal - kinda like the resistance a few have for using PEX in plumbing. Aside from 'personal experience', is there any data? Use them and let us know. I'm confused. How would that qualify as data as opposed to personal experience? |
#5
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Using the push-in option (and no screw tighten) on outlets
I would think the real world experiences of thousands of people and tens of
thousands of outlets would consitute 'data'. It's been proven over and over that the pushin connection is unreliable especially when in the middle of a 'series' run of outlets. I use them very rarely and only on a single switch. I never use 14 ga on outlets so it's a moot point on them. s "a" wrote in message news:H7_8j.571$wy2.451@edtnps90... OK - I've read the bitter vitriol in here used to describe the use of the push-in option when wiring electrical outlets, but is there any study someone can point to that has tested the long term difference between the screw terminals and the push-in variety? All I hear is anecdotal - kinda like the resistance a few have for using PEX in plumbing. Aside from 'personal experience', is there any data? a |
#6
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Using the push-in option (and no screw tighten) on outlets
S. Barker wrote:
I would think the real world experiences of thousands of people and tens of thousands of outlets would consitute 'data'. It's been proven over and over that the pushin connection is unreliable especially when in the middle of a 'series' run of outlets. I use them very rarely and only on a single switch. I never use 14 ga on outlets so it's a moot point on them. s OK - this is *exactly* what I'm talking about - what 'thousands of people'?? Where do you get this information? a |
#7
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Using the push-in option (and no screw tighten) on outlets
a wrote:
OK - I've read the bitter vitriol in here used to describe the use of the push-in option when wiring electrical outlets, but is there any study someone can point to that has tested the long term difference between the screw terminals and the push-in variety? All I hear is anecdotal - kinda like the resistance a few have for using PEX in plumbing. Aside from 'personal experience', is there any data? I think NEC banned 'stab' connections on outlets used with 12ga wire. I don't know what data they used if any to make that change. I always use 12ga 20Amp circuits. When I come across any 'stabbed' outlets or switches I will go ahead and pull the wires out and use the screws. I can never seem to make the release things to work so I end up pulling hard while twisting back and forth. If you do use the 'stab' connectors then I would use pigtails. I prefer to use the 'back-feed' type where you put the wire in the hole and tighten the screws. I am comfortable using those without pigtails. The back feed type do cost more though, over $2.00 each. Kevin |
#8
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Using the push-in option (and no screw tighten) on outlets
a wrote:
OK - I've read the bitter vitriol in here used to describe the use of the push-in option when wiring electrical outlets, but is there any study someone can point to that has tested the long term difference between the screw terminals and the push-in variety? All I hear is anecdotal - kinda like the resistance a few have for using PEX in plumbing. Aside from 'personal experience', is there any data? a Hi, I don't know about statistical data but just law od physics. It may be quick and easy method but look at the contact area of the wire vs. looping wire around screw and tightening it. Spcially when the outlet is carry near capacity current. I never wired using stab method. But I am sold on PEX. |
#9
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Using the push-in option (and no screw tighten) on outlets
Tony Hwang wrote:
a wrote: OK - I've read the bitter vitriol in here used to describe the use of the push-in option when wiring electrical outlets, but is there any study someone can point to that has tested the long term difference between the screw terminals and the push-in variety? All I hear is anecdotal - kinda like the resistance a few have for using PEX in plumbing. Aside from 'personal experience', is there any data? a Hi, I don't know about statistical data but just law od physics. It may be quick and easy method but look at the contact area of the wire vs. looping wire around screw and tightening it. Spcially when the outlet is carry near capacity current. I never wired using stab method. But I am sold on PEX. (I *love* PEX too!) but I do think about the physics - is a larger contact area better? Will I get a bigger jolt if I put my thumb on a hot rail than if I put my pinkie on it? a |
#10
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Using the push-in option (and no screw tighten) on outlets
a wrote:
Tony Hwang wrote: a wrote: OK - I've read the bitter vitriol in here used to describe the use of the push-in option when wiring electrical outlets, but is there any study someone can point to that has tested the long term difference between the screw terminals and the push-in variety? All I hear is anecdotal - kinda like the resistance a few have for using PEX in plumbing. Aside from 'personal experience', is there any data? a Hi, I don't know about statistical data but just law od physics. It may be quick and easy method but look at the contact area of the wire vs. looping wire around screw and tightening it. Spcially when the outlet is carry near capacity current. I never wired using stab method. But I am sold on PEX. (I *love* PEX too!) but I do think about the physics - is a larger contact area better? Will I get a bigger jolt if I put my thumb on a hot rail than if I put my pinkie on it? a Hi, Jolt is a function of voltage, not current. Across car battery, not much jolt.Current is a function of contact area or size of wire. Like thicker wire has more current carrying capacity. If frequency of current goes way high into R.F. range, skin effect comes into play. That is why R.F. carrying conductor is some times hollow pipe or multi strand wire(Litz wire), not solid core wire. I am retired EE who used to work on mega size telecomm/computer site. On mil-spec wiring, I never observed stab wiring. Probalby commercial wiring is same. |
#11
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Using the push-in option (and no screw tighten) on outlets
a, 12/15/2007,9:49:16 PM, wrote:
is a larger contact area better? Will I get a bigger jolt if I put my thumb on a hot rail than if I put my pinkie on it? In electronics when wanting to ensure a good signal or clean power there are several fundamentals that must be observed. However when in doubt the old adage "more copper" comes to mind. If there is less surface area for current transfer from one conductor to another then resistance will build and that translates to heat. The stab type outlet has far less surface area in contact with the wire than the screw type does. This in itself is a dangerous design when you use devices that require much current draw from that outlet. I don't think it's a matter of how secure the connection is rather than the contact areas between the wire and outlet that are in question. -- "My sources are unreliable, but their information is fascinating." ~ Ashleigh Brilliant |
#12
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Using the push-in option (and no screw tighten) on outlets
On Sat, 15 Dec 2007 22:19:07 -0500, "badgolferman"
wrote: In electronics when wanting to ensure a good signal or clean power there are several fundamentals that must be observed. However when in doubt the old adage "more copper" comes to mind. If there is less surface area for current transfer from one conductor to another then resistance will build and that translates to heat. The stab type outlet has far less surface area in contact with the wire than the screw type does. This in itself is a dangerous design when you use devices that require much current draw from that outlet. I don't think it's a matter of how secure the connection is rather than the contact areas between the wire and outlet that are in question. And yet, UL approves the "stab" outlets. I would presume they do all sorts of controlled lab tests. Their approval seal "should" be better than any folklore. How about the Canadian testing group ? They tend to be more conservative. Do they approve "stab" outlets ? rj |
#13
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Using the push-in option (and no screw tighten) on outlets
"RJ" wrote in message news On Sat, 15 Dec 2007 22:19:07 -0500, "badgolferman" wrote: In electronics when wanting to ensure a good signal or clean power there are several fundamentals that must be observed. However when in doubt the old adage "more copper" comes to mind. If there is less surface area for current transfer from one conductor to another then resistance will build and that translates to heat. The stab type outlet has far less surface area in contact with the wire than the screw type does. This in itself is a dangerous design when you use devices that require much current draw from that outlet. I don't think it's a matter of how secure the connection is rather than the contact areas between the wire and outlet that are in question. And yet, UL approves the "stab" outlets. I would presume they do all sorts of controlled lab tests. Their approval seal "should" be better than any folklore. How about the Canadian testing group ? They tend to be more conservative. Do they approve "stab" outlets ? rj I just took a look at some single pole switches that I have. They have both screw and stab connections and are CSA (Canadian Standards Association) approval 99-6416-2. |
#14
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Using the push-in option (and no screw tighten) on outlets
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#15
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Using the push-in option (and no screw tighten) on outlets
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#16
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Using the push-in option (and no screw tighten) on outlets
On Sun, 16 Dec 2007 00:16:39 GMT, a wrote:
OK - I've read the bitter vitriol in here used to describe the use of the push-in option when wiring electrical outlets, but is there any study someone can point to that has tested the long term difference between the screw terminals and the push-in variety? All I hear is anecdotal - kinda like the resistance a few have for using PEX in plumbing. Aside from 'personal experience', is there any data? a Are you publishing a book? My personal experience won't matter then! |
#17
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Using the push-in option (and no screw tighten) on outlets
Oren wrote:
On Sun, 16 Dec 2007 00:16:39 GMT, a wrote: OK - I've read the bitter vitriol in here used to describe the use of the push-in option when wiring electrical outlets, but is there any study someone can point to that has tested the long term difference between the screw terminals and the push-in variety? All I hear is anecdotal - kinda like the resistance a few have for using PEX in plumbing. Aside from 'personal experience', is there any data? a Are you publishing a book? No. My personal experience won't matter then! OK. a |
#18
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Using the push-in option (and no screw tighten) on outlets
Personal experience here-- a lady at work has a mobile home she bought
new about 8 years ago. First her fridge stopped working, so she pluged it into an extension cord to another outlet. I was out there doing a heater or a/c maint. checkout, so I looked into it. Fridge outlet was backstabbed. I think it was an end run. but not positive--this was several years ago. I cannot remember if the outlet also had screws which I used instead or if I replaced the outlet, but she has had no more trouble with it. Next time I was there, several more plugs and lights were not working-- same thing. Definitely would have been enough to convince me they were no good, except I already thought that anyway. Larry |
#19
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Using the push-in option (and no screw tighten) on outlets
"Oren" wrote in message ... On Sun, 16 Dec 2007 00:16:39 GMT, a wrote: OK - I've read the bitter vitriol in here used to describe the use of the push-in option when wiring electrical outlets, but is there any study someone can point to that has tested the long term difference between the screw terminals and the push-in variety? All I hear is anecdotal - kinda like the resistance a few have for using PEX in plumbing. Aside from 'personal experience', is there any data? a Are you publishing a book? My personal experience won't matter then! I think he is looking for permission to use equipment that is questionable, but easier for the novice. A pro can twist a wire on the terminal rather fast In the time spent trying to get approval, twenty connections could have been made. |
#20
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Using the push-in option (and no screw tighten) on outlets
it costs a bit more but I love the kind you put the straight stripped
wire in and tighten screw. fast easy removable and worth the cost |
#21
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Using the push-in option (and no screw tighten) on outlets
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
"Oren" wrote in message ... On Sun, 16 Dec 2007 00:16:39 GMT, a wrote: OK - I've read the bitter vitriol in here used to describe the use of the push-in option when wiring electrical outlets, but is there any study someone can point to that has tested the long term difference between the screw terminals and the push-in variety? All I hear is anecdotal - kinda like the resistance a few have for using PEX in plumbing. Aside from 'personal experience', is there any data? a Are you publishing a book? My personal experience won't matter then! I think he is looking for permission to use equipment that is questionable, but easier for the novice. A pro can twist a wire on the terminal rather fast In the time spent trying to get approval, twenty connections could have been made. Uh, no, my basement is already wired and I used the screw terminals. a |
#22
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Using the push-in option (and no screw tighten) on outlets
On Dec 15, 6:16 pm, a wrote:
OK - I've read the bitter vitriol in here used to describe the use of the push-in option when wiring electrical outlets, but is there any study someone can point to that has tested the long term difference between the screw terminals and the push-in variety? All I hear is anecdotal - kinda like the resistance a few have for using PEX in plumbing. Aside from 'personal experience', is there any data? a Call it anecdotal, but like many others here, I've had multiple failures of back stabbers dating back many years. I doubt that you would never get any other view from any journeymen in the trade. Analyzing the problem from an engineering standpoint, it seems entirely logical that an overheated spring contact will loosen and fail. Seems to me to be pointless to do a study of the likelihood of that happening. The end user abuses the device, the device fails. The manufacturer will cheerfully send you another 79 cent part if you gripe about it, but why bother? The manufacturers are well aware of this weakness and make backstabbers noiw that must be screw tightened. My dimes worth... Joe |
#23
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Using the push-in option (and no screw tighten) on outlets
Aside from 'personal experience', is there any data? a If you are collecting data my personal experience is do not use push in ever. |
#24
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Using the push-in option (and no screw tighten) on outlets
Ashton Crusher wrote:
On Sun, 16 Dec 2007 00:16:39 GMT, a wrote: OK - I've read the bitter vitriol in here used to describe the use of the push-in option when wiring electrical outlets, but is there any study someone can point to that has tested the long term difference between the screw terminals and the push-in variety? All I hear is anecdotal - kinda like the resistance a few have for using PEX in plumbing. Aside from 'personal experience', is there any data? a I've only had problems with stab connections on a house with aluminum wiring. The wire is so soft that the spring eventually mashes the wire so flat that good contact is lost. In houses with copper wire it's never been a problem. That said, when I replace an outlet when a tenant breaks one or paints over it, I use the screws. Backstabs were never approved for and never should have been used with aluminum wire. IMHO dangerous. Still have a house with aluminum branch circuit wiring? -- bud-- |
#25
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Using the push-in option (and no screw tighten) on outlets
bud-- writes:
Backstabs were never approved for and never should have been used with aluminum wire. IMHO dangerous. Yeah, but it happened. A guy who worked with my father asked me to look at an outlet in his house that was not working properly. Some of the plastic was actually charred. It was fed with aluminum wire plugged into a backstab port. He's lucky it didn't get a little bit hotter and start something burning. I think I told him to check all the outlets in the house for the same problem (I was still in my teens at the time, which is a long time ago now). My own house has copper branch circuit wiring and backstab-connected outlets and switches. I haven't found any problems I can attribute to them, but whenever I'm working on a switch or outlet for any reason, I'll switch to using the screw connections because I just don't trust the backstab ones. Or I'll junk the existing switch/receptacle and replace it with one that has rear-entry screw clamp connections, which I like better than the side screws. Dave |
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