I have a concrete foundation, and am finishing the basement. We just
decided on putting in a bar, with an island bar about 4 feet off the
nearest wall. I will need to run electric to the island in order to
power the fridge and wine chiller, but just don't know what the code-
friendly way to do this is. Can I just put the electric wire under the
final flooring (seems doubtful), or do I need to break up the
concrete, put in some sort of conduit, and put the wire inside it,
then re-concrete the top? Is there another easier way I'm not
thinking of? Thanks.

wrote:

I have a concrete foundation, and am finishing the basement. We just
decided on putting in a bar, with an island bar about 4 feet off the
nearest wall. I will need to run electric to the island in order to
power the fridge and wine chiller, but just don't know what the code-
friendly way to do this is. Can I just put the electric wire under the
final flooring (seems doubtful), or do I need to break up the
concrete, put in some sort of conduit, and put the wire inside it,
then re-concrete the top? Is there another easier way I'm not
thinking of? Thanks.

If the finished flooring is going to be raised off the concrete for
insulation you should be able to run conduit in that gap just fine. If
not, then you would cut a small channel in the concrete with a suitable
masonry blade in a circular saw, angle grinder or similar and remove
just that thin strip to install the conduit and then patch over with
fresh concrete.

Of course the easiest option would be to drop down to the bar with a
decorative column like polished brass tube. You could disguise this
further by using two of them and installing some nice shelving for
bottles on them, perhaps 1/2" thick glass shelves with brass rails front
and rear. Most of these components are available as standard items, and
any good glass place can produce the shelves (you could also use wood
shelves).

In any case, if you're going to all this effort you should put a sink in
the island as well. Running PEX supply lines and a drain line from a
small pump unit of the type often used with laundry sinks should be easy
enough.

On Dec 11, 9:33 am, "Pete C." wrote:
wrote:

I have a concrete foundation, and am finishing the basement. We just
decided on putting in a bar, with an island bar about 4 feet off the
nearest wall. I will need to run electric to the island in order to
power the fridge and wine chiller, but just don't know what the code-
friendly way to do this is. Can I just put the electric wire under the
final flooring (seems doubtful), or do I need to break up the
concrete, put in some sort of conduit, and put the wire inside it,
then re-concrete the top? Is there another easier way I'm not
thinking of? Thanks.

If the finished flooring is going to be raised off the concrete for
insulation you should be able to run conduit in that gap just fine. If
not, then you would cut a small channel in the concrete with a suitable
masonry blade in a circular saw, angle grinder or similar and remove
just that thin strip to install the conduit and then patch over with
fresh concrete.

Of course the easiest option would be to drop down to the bar with a
decorative column like polished brass tube. You could disguise this
further by using two of them and installing some nice shelving for
bottles on them, perhaps 1/2" thick glass shelves with brass rails front
and rear. Most of these components are available as standard items, and
any good glass place can produce the shelves (you could also use wood
shelves).

In any case, if you're going to all this effort you should put a sink in
the island as well. Running PEX supply lines and a drain line from a
small pump unit of the type often used with laundry sinks should be easy
enough.

We will be having a dry SS sink in the bar, figuring that there's
really nothing we'd need a running faucet for right there. As for the
glass shelves, these will be on the bar back, which will be up against
the wall. I plan to have two outlets right above the counter on the
bar back, but since that's up against the wall, that isn't the issue
so much. The keg box and wine chiller will be in the island, which
will stand alone with no connection to the ceiling or walls. I'll be
putting in an engineered wood floor over a Delta-FL underlayment, but
I don't think that will provide enough clearance to lay conduit
underneath. So it sounds like I'll have to put the conduit into the
concrete and re-pour new concrete over the top, right? Thanks for the
help.

wrote in message
...
On Dec 11, 9:33 am, "Pete C." wrote:
wrote:

I have a concrete foundation, and am finishing the basement. We just
decided on putting in a bar, with an island bar about 4 feet off the
nearest wall. I will need to run electric to the island in order to
power the fridge and wine chiller, but just don't know what the code-
friendly way to do this is. Can I just put the electric wire under the
final flooring (seems doubtful), or do I need to break up the
concrete, put in some sort of conduit, and put the wire inside it,
then re-concrete the top? Is there another easier way I'm not
thinking of? Thanks.

If the finished flooring is going to be raised off the concrete for
insulation you should be able to run conduit in that gap just fine. If
not, then you would cut a small channel in the concrete with a suitable
masonry blade in a circular saw, angle grinder or similar and remove
just that thin strip to install the conduit and then patch over with
fresh concrete.

Of course the easiest option would be to drop down to the bar with a
decorative column like polished brass tube. You could disguise this
further by using two of them and installing some nice shelving for
bottles on them, perhaps 1/2" thick glass shelves with brass rails front
and rear. Most of these components are available as standard items, and
any good glass place can produce the shelves (you could also use wood
shelves).

In any case, if you're going to all this effort you should put a sink in
the island as well. Running PEX supply lines and a drain line from a
small pump unit of the type often used with laundry sinks should be easy
enough.

We will be having a dry SS sink in the bar, figuring that there's
really nothing we'd need a running faucet for right there. As for the
glass shelves, these will be on the bar back, which will be up against
the wall. I plan to have two outlets right above the counter on the
bar back, but since that's up against the wall, that isn't the issue
so much. The keg box and wine chiller will be in the island, which
will stand alone with no connection to the ceiling or walls. I'll be
putting in an engineered wood floor over a Delta-FL underlayment, but
I don't think that will provide enough clearance to lay conduit
underneath. So it sounds like I'll have to put the conduit into the
concrete and re-pour new concrete over the top, right? Thanks for the
help.


Are you sure you can't find a decorative reason to have a wooden post
running up to the ceiling from the bar? Route a channel in it, add conduit
to safely contain the wire, and ba da bing you're done.

Perhaps a nice little decorative column from the ceiling down to the bar.
Could have an outlet in it. Two columns may make it look more better.

s


wrote in message
...
I have a concrete foundation, and am finishing the basement. We just
decided on putting in a bar, with an island bar about 4 feet off the
nearest wall. I will need to run electric to the island in order to
power the fridge and wine chiller, but just don't know what the code-
friendly way to do this is. Can I just put the electric wire under the
final flooring (seems doubtful), or do I need to break up the
concrete, put in some sort of conduit, and put the wire inside it,
then re-concrete the top? Is there another easier way I'm not
thinking of? Thanks.

wrote:

On Dec 11, 9:33 am, "Pete C." wrote:
wrote:

I have a concrete foundation, and am finishing the basement. We just
decided on putting in a bar, with an island bar about 4 feet off the
nearest wall. I will need to run electric to the island in order to
power the fridge and wine chiller, but just don't know what the code-
friendly way to do this is. Can I just put the electric wire under the
final flooring (seems doubtful), or do I need to break up the
concrete, put in some sort of conduit, and put the wire inside it,
then re-concrete the top? Is there another easier way I'm not
thinking of? Thanks.

If the finished flooring is going to be raised off the concrete for
insulation you should be able to run conduit in that gap just fine. If
not, then you would cut a small channel in the concrete with a suitable
masonry blade in a circular saw, angle grinder or similar and remove
just that thin strip to install the conduit and then patch over with
fresh concrete.

Of course the easiest option would be to drop down to the bar with a
decorative column like polished brass tube. You could disguise this
further by using two of them and installing some nice shelving for
bottles on them, perhaps 1/2" thick glass shelves with brass rails front
and rear. Most of these components are available as standard items, and
any good glass place can produce the shelves (you could also use wood
shelves).

In any case, if you're going to all this effort you should put a sink in
the island as well. Running PEX supply lines and a drain line from a
small pump unit of the type often used with laundry sinks should be easy
enough.

We will be having a dry SS sink in the bar, figuring that there's
really nothing we'd need a running faucet for right there. As for the
glass shelves, these will be on the bar back, which will be up against
the wall. I plan to have two outlets right above the counter on the
bar back, but since that's up against the wall, that isn't the issue
so much. The keg box and wine chiller will be in the island, which
will stand alone with no connection to the ceiling or walls. I'll be
putting in an engineered wood floor over a Delta-FL underlayment, but
I don't think that will provide enough clearance to lay conduit
underneath. So it sounds like I'll have to put the conduit into the
concrete and re-pour new concrete over the top, right? Thanks for the
help.

How about raising the bar floor up above the surrounding area by an inch
or so? That should provide the additional clearance necessary and not
look particularly out of place, especially if you finish the bar floor
in a different material like vinyl/linoleum tile.

"Pete C." wrote in message
...
wrote:

On Dec 11, 9:33 am, "Pete C." wrote:
wrote:

I have a concrete foundation, and am finishing the basement. We just
decided on putting in a bar, with an island bar about 4 feet off the
nearest wall. I will need to run electric to the island in order to
power the fridge and wine chiller, but just don't know what the code-
friendly way to do this is. Can I just put the electric wire under
the
final flooring (seems doubtful), or do I need to break up the
concrete, put in some sort of conduit, and put the wire inside it,
then re-concrete the top? Is there another easier way I'm not
thinking of? Thanks.

If the finished flooring is going to be raised off the concrete for
insulation you should be able to run conduit in that gap just fine. If
not, then you would cut a small channel in the concrete with a suitable
masonry blade in a circular saw, angle grinder or similar and remove
just that thin strip to install the conduit and then patch over with
fresh concrete.

Of course the easiest option would be to drop down to the bar with a
decorative column like polished brass tube. You could disguise this
further by using two of them and installing some nice shelving for
bottles on them, perhaps 1/2" thick glass shelves with brass rails
front
and rear. Most of these components are available as standard items, and
any good glass place can produce the shelves (you could also use wood
shelves).

In any case, if you're going to all this effort you should put a sink
in
the island as well. Running PEX supply lines and a drain line from a
small pump unit of the type often used with laundry sinks should be
easy
enough.

We will be having a dry SS sink in the bar, figuring that there's
really nothing we'd need a running faucet for right there. As for the
glass shelves, these will be on the bar back, which will be up against
the wall. I plan to have two outlets right above the counter on the
bar back, but since that's up against the wall, that isn't the issue
so much. The keg box and wine chiller will be in the island, which
will stand alone with no connection to the ceiling or walls. I'll be
putting in an engineered wood floor over a Delta-FL underlayment, but
I don't think that will provide enough clearance to lay conduit
underneath. So it sounds like I'll have to put the conduit into the
concrete and re-pour new concrete over the top, right? Thanks for the
help.

How about raising the bar floor up above the surrounding area by an inch
or so? That should provide the additional clearance necessary and not
look particularly out of place, especially if you finish the bar floor
in a different material like vinyl/linoleum tile.


He still needs a way to run the wire from the raised thing you suggested, to
the wall or ceiling, or wherever he's sourcing power from.

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in message
...
wrote:

On Dec 11, 9:33 am, "Pete C." wrote:
wrote:

I have a concrete foundation, and am finishing the basement. We just
decided on putting in a bar, with an island bar about 4 feet off the
nearest wall. I will need to run electric to the island in order to
power the fridge and wine chiller, but just don't know what the code-
friendly way to do this is. Can I just put the electric wire under
the
final flooring (seems doubtful), or do I need to break up the
concrete, put in some sort of conduit, and put the wire inside it,
then re-concrete the top? Is there another easier way I'm not
thinking of? Thanks.

If the finished flooring is going to be raised off the concrete for
insulation you should be able to run conduit in that gap just fine. If
not, then you would cut a small channel in the concrete with a suitable
masonry blade in a circular saw, angle grinder or similar and remove
just that thin strip to install the conduit and then patch over with
fresh concrete.

Of course the easiest option would be to drop down to the bar with a
decorative column like polished brass tube. You could disguise this
further by using two of them and installing some nice shelving for
bottles on them, perhaps 1/2" thick glass shelves with brass rails
front
and rear. Most of these components are available as standard items, and
any good glass place can produce the shelves (you could also use wood
shelves).

In any case, if you're going to all this effort you should put a sink
in
the island as well. Running PEX supply lines and a drain line from a
small pump unit of the type often used with laundry sinks should be
easy
enough.

We will be having a dry SS sink in the bar, figuring that there's
really nothing we'd need a running faucet for right there. As for the
glass shelves, these will be on the bar back, which will be up against
the wall. I plan to have two outlets right above the counter on the
bar back, but since that's up against the wall, that isn't the issue
so much. The keg box and wine chiller will be in the island, which
will stand alone with no connection to the ceiling or walls. I'll be
putting in an engineered wood floor over a Delta-FL underlayment, but
I don't think that will provide enough clearance to lay conduit
underneath. So it sounds like I'll have to put the conduit into the
concrete and re-pour new concrete over the top, right? Thanks for the
help.

How about raising the bar floor up above the surrounding area by an inch
or so? That should provide the additional clearance necessary and not
look particularly out of place, especially if you finish the bar floor
in a different material like vinyl/linoleum tile.

He still needs a way to run the wire from the raised thing you suggested, to
the wall or ceiling, or wherever he's sourcing power from.

He indicated the shelves were on the bar back, which would seem to
indicate the bar consists of two cabinet sections, one against a wall
and one parallel in front of it as an island with a walkway between
them. This would make it seem reasonable to raise the floor level
slightly and use different flooring in that walkway area between, which
would allow conduit to be run from the wall side cabinets up to the
island ones.

"Pete C." wrote in message
...
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in message
...
wrote:

On Dec 11, 9:33 am, "Pete C." wrote:
wrote:

I have a concrete foundation, and am finishing the basement. We
just
decided on putting in a bar, with an island bar about 4 feet off
the
nearest wall. I will need to run electric to the island in order
to
power the fridge and wine chiller, but just don't know what the
code-
friendly way to do this is. Can I just put the electric wire under
the
final flooring (seems doubtful), or do I need to break up the
concrete, put in some sort of conduit, and put the wire inside it,
then re-concrete the top? Is there another easier way I'm not
thinking of? Thanks.

If the finished flooring is going to be raised off the concrete for
insulation you should be able to run conduit in that gap just fine.
If
not, then you would cut a small channel in the concrete with a
suitable
masonry blade in a circular saw, angle grinder or similar and remove
just that thin strip to install the conduit and then patch over with
fresh concrete.

Of course the easiest option would be to drop down to the bar with a
decorative column like polished brass tube. You could disguise this
further by using two of them and installing some nice shelving for
bottles on them, perhaps 1/2" thick glass shelves with brass rails
front
and rear. Most of these components are available as standard items,
and
any good glass place can produce the shelves (you could also use
wood
shelves).

In any case, if you're going to all this effort you should put a
sink
in
the island as well. Running PEX supply lines and a drain line from a
small pump unit of the type often used with laundry sinks should be
easy
enough.

We will be having a dry SS sink in the bar, figuring that there's
really nothing we'd need a running faucet for right there. As for the
glass shelves, these will be on the bar back, which will be up against
the wall. I plan to have two outlets right above the counter on the
bar back, but since that's up against the wall, that isn't the issue
so much. The keg box and wine chiller will be in the island, which
will stand alone with no connection to the ceiling or walls. I'll be
putting in an engineered wood floor over a Delta-FL underlayment, but
I don't think that will provide enough clearance to lay conduit
underneath. So it sounds like I'll have to put the conduit into the
concrete and re-pour new concrete over the top, right? Thanks for the
help.

How about raising the bar floor up above the surrounding area by an
inch
or so? That should provide the additional clearance necessary and not
look particularly out of place, especially if you finish the bar floor
in a different material like vinyl/linoleum tile.

He still needs a way to run the wire from the raised thing you suggested,
to
the wall or ceiling, or wherever he's sourcing power from.

He indicated the shelves were on the bar back, which would seem to
indicate the bar consists of two cabinet sections, one against a wall
and one parallel in front of it as an island with a walkway between
them. This would make it seem reasonable to raise the floor level
slightly and use different flooring in that walkway area between, which
would allow conduit to be run from the wall side cabinets up to the
island ones.

That's true. And I'm also thinking of those things you sometimes see at
trade shows and on stages. They look like speed bumps, made for running
wires along floors without creating a sharp edge that people will trip over.

On Tue, 11 Dec 2007 04:29:25 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

I have a concrete foundation, and am finishing the basement. We just
decided on putting in a bar, with an island bar about 4 feet off the
nearest wall. I will need to run electric to the island in order to
power the fridge and wine chiller, but just don't know what the code-
friendly way to do this is. Can I just put the electric wire under the
final flooring (seems doubtful), or do I need to break up the
concrete, put in some sort of conduit, and put the wire inside it,
then re-concrete the top? Is there another easier way I'm not
thinking of? Thanks.

They make a flat cable that you can lay under carpet or a rug. You
might look into something like that.

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in message
...
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in message
...
wrote:

On Dec 11, 9:33 am, "Pete C." wrote:
wrote:

I have a concrete foundation, and am finishing the basement. We
just
decided on putting in a bar, with an island bar about 4 feet off
the
nearest wall. I will need to run electric to the island in order
to
power the fridge and wine chiller, but just don't know what the
code-
friendly way to do this is. Can I just put the electric wire under
the
final flooring (seems doubtful), or do I need to break up the
concrete, put in some sort of conduit, and put the wire inside it,
then re-concrete the top? Is there another easier way I'm not
thinking of? Thanks.

If the finished flooring is going to be raised off the concrete for
insulation you should be able to run conduit in that gap just fine.
If
not, then you would cut a small channel in the concrete with a
suitable
masonry blade in a circular saw, angle grinder or similar and remove
just that thin strip to install the conduit and then patch over with
fresh concrete.

Of course the easiest option would be to drop down to the bar with a
decorative column like polished brass tube. You could disguise this
further by using two of them and installing some nice shelving for
bottles on them, perhaps 1/2" thick glass shelves with brass rails
front
and rear. Most of these components are available as standard items,
and
any good glass place can produce the shelves (you could also use
wood
shelves).

In any case, if you're going to all this effort you should put a
sink
in
the island as well. Running PEX supply lines and a drain line from a
small pump unit of the type often used with laundry sinks should be
easy
enough.

We will be having a dry SS sink in the bar, figuring that there's
really nothing we'd need a running faucet for right there. As for the
glass shelves, these will be on the bar back, which will be up against
the wall. I plan to have two outlets right above the counter on the
bar back, but since that's up against the wall, that isn't the issue
so much. The keg box and wine chiller will be in the island, which
will stand alone with no connection to the ceiling or walls. I'll be
putting in an engineered wood floor over a Delta-FL underlayment, but
I don't think that will provide enough clearance to lay conduit
underneath. So it sounds like I'll have to put the conduit into the
concrete and re-pour new concrete over the top, right? Thanks for the
help.

How about raising the bar floor up above the surrounding area by an
inch
or so? That should provide the additional clearance necessary and not
look particularly out of place, especially if you finish the bar floor
in a different material like vinyl/linoleum tile.

He still needs a way to run the wire from the raised thing you suggested,
to
the wall or ceiling, or wherever he's sourcing power from.

He indicated the shelves were on the bar back, which would seem to
indicate the bar consists of two cabinet sections, one against a wall
and one parallel in front of it as an island with a walkway between
them. This would make it seem reasonable to raise the floor level
slightly and use different flooring in that walkway area between, which
would allow conduit to be run from the wall side cabinets up to the
island ones.

That's true. And I'm also thinking of those things you sometimes see at
trade shows and on stages. They look like speed bumps, made for running
wires along floors without creating a sharp edge that people will trip over.

Right, and that's what the raised floor section would effectively be,
just a lot wider so it doesn't look out of place. I think a raised floor
of a water resistant flooring like vinyl tile in that bar area would
look "normal" vs. a small cord guard strip looking ugly.

Okay, I DO appreciate the tips, but my question is how do I get power
to the island WITHOUT attaching to the ceiling or raising the floor.
I've already gotten approval from the wife to put in a bar (and pool
table, and TV on the wall, etc), and want to just take that and run
with it. If I have to, I'll use the speedbump power cord idea, but
would really like something that doesn't look so industrial. The
floor will be engineered wood floor, and the plan is to have that wood
flooring across the entire basement (except in the bathroom and
workout space), so running a Romex cable underneath isn't really a
possiblity I don't think. I have an angle grinder, so I guess I'll do
some test-cuts tonight. Would 1/2 inch conduit be sufficient? Any
idea how deep it would need to be?

wrote in message
...
Okay, I DO appreciate the tips, but my question is how do I get power
to the island WITHOUT attaching to the ceiling or raising the floor.
I've already gotten approval from the wife to put in a bar (and pool
table, and TV on the wall, etc), and want to just take that and run
with it. If I have to, I'll use the speedbump power cord idea, but
would really like something that doesn't look so industrial. The
floor will be engineered wood floor, and the plan is to have that wood
flooring across the entire basement (except in the bathroom and
workout space), so running a Romex cable underneath isn't really a
possiblity I don't think. I have an angle grinder, so I guess I'll do
some test-cuts tonight. Would 1/2 inch conduit be sufficient? Any
idea how deep it would need to be?


I wouldn't go hacking up your floor until you've explored some other ideas,
via resources IN ADDITION TO this newsgroup. Open your yellow pages phone
book and find a real electrical supply place. Not Home Depot. Not Lowe's.
You might get multiple benefits from visiting such a place:

- Ideas
- Touch and see the ideas
- People who work at these places are often familiar with local building
codes

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:

wrote in message
...
Okay, I DO appreciate the tips, but my question is how do I get power
to the island WITHOUT attaching to the ceiling or raising the floor.
I've already gotten approval from the wife to put in a bar (and pool
table, and TV on the wall, etc), and want to just take that and run
with it. If I have to, I'll use the speedbump power cord idea, but
would really like something that doesn't look so industrial. The
floor will be engineered wood floor, and the plan is to have that wood
flooring across the entire basement (except in the bathroom and
workout space), so running a Romex cable underneath isn't really a
possiblity I don't think. I have an angle grinder, so I guess I'll do
some test-cuts tonight. Would 1/2 inch conduit be sufficient? Any
idea how deep it would need to be?

I wouldn't go hacking up your floor until you've explored some other ideas,
via resources IN ADDITION TO this newsgroup. Open your yellow pages phone
book and find a real electrical supply place. Not Home Depot. Not Lowe's.
You might get multiple benefits from visiting such a place:

- Ideas
- Touch and see the ideas
- People who work at these places are often familiar with local building
codes

Second reviewing all options, cutting the slab should be the last
resort.

As for conduit, 1/2" sch 40 PVC conduit would be sufficient for the
items you want on the island. You'd only need larger if you intended
something like an electric cook top. Depth need not be more than a
couple inches since it will have concrete cover as well as being
blatantly obvious due to the different concrete color on the strip
(you'll never get a perfect match), but from a practical perspective it
will likely be full slab depth since it will be easier to cut full depth
and remove that strip than to cut partial depth and try to chisel out to
the depth you want.

On Tue, 11 Dec 2007 12:41:48 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

Okay, I DO appreciate the tips, but my question is how do I get power
to the island WITHOUT attaching to the ceiling or raising the floor.

That rules out everything but trenching the floor. You expecting
magic?

wrote in message
...
Okay, I DO appreciate the tips, but my question is how do I get power
to the island WITHOUT attaching to the ceiling or raising the floor.



I'm curious about why you don't want to run the wire up to the ceiling. If
it's a dropped ceiling, the rest would be a breeze, and the wire would be
much easier to work on if you had to do future maintenance.

wrote:

I have a concrete foundation, and am finishing the basement. We just
decided on putting in a bar, with an island bar about 4 feet off the
nearest wall. I will need to run electric to the island in order to
power the fridge and wine chiller, but just don't know what the code-
friendly way to do this is. Can I just put the electric wire under the
final flooring (seems doubtful), or do I need to break up the
concrete, put in some sort of conduit, and put the wire inside it,
then re-concrete the top? Is there another easier way I'm not
thinking of? Thanks.



Go wireless Build a Tesla coil or buy a microwave setup.

http://www.thinkgeek.com/stuff/41/wec.shtml
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireless_energy_transfer

I gotta tell ya, everything suggested so far is much more work
and expense than just cutting into the concrete and laying some cable.
With a rented quickie saw, it should take you about 15 minutes to cut
two grooves in the concrete. Then take a cold chisle and knock it out.
I would try and lay romex cable instead of conduit. With conduit, you
run the risk of moister collection with no way of draining. Run a 4
wire
12 guage, just in case you want 2 circuits.
Lou

In article
,
wrote:

Okay, I DO appreciate the tips, but my question is how do I get power
to the island WITHOUT attaching to the ceiling or raising the floor.

EZ, install a small generator in the bar :0

Free men own guns - www(dot)geocities(dot)com/CapitolHill/5357/

On Dec 11, 9:47 pm, Lou wrote:
I gotta tell ya, everything suggested so far is much more work
and expense than just cutting into the concrete and laying some cable.
With a rented quickie saw, it should take you about 15 minutes to cut
two grooves in the concrete. Then take a cold chisle and knock it out.
I would try and lay romex cable instead of conduit. With conduit, you
run the risk of moister collection with no way of draining. Run a 4
wire
12 guage, just in case you want 2 circuits.
Lou

So are you saying to cut the concrete, run 12/3 romex, and then pour
new concrete right over the romex? I thought that was what I needed
conduit for, and the romex went inside the conduit. No???

wrote:

On Dec 11, 9:47 pm, Lou wrote:
I gotta tell ya, everything suggested so far is much more work
and expense than just cutting into the concrete and laying some cable.
With a rented quickie saw, it should take you about 15 minutes to cut
two grooves in the concrete. Then take a cold chisle and knock it out.
I would try and lay romex cable instead of conduit. With conduit, you
run the risk of moister collection with no way of draining. Run a 4
wire
12 guage, just in case you want 2 circuits.
Lou

So are you saying to cut the concrete, run 12/3 romex, and then pour
new concrete right over the romex? I thought that was what I needed
conduit for, and the romex went inside the conduit. No???

You'd have to use UF, not Romex (NM) if you were to direct bury it.
Conduit is cheap and allows for pulling new or additional conductors in
the future. You generally don't run Romex in conduit either, you usually
pull individual THHN conductors. Moisture in the PVC conduit will
certainly happen, but rarely bothers the conductors in it.

They are correct. Us the UF, not romex. I wouldn't run conduit in any
place that has a chance of flooding even by a power outage to the
sump.
Lou

You'd have to use UF, not Romex (NM) if you were to direct bury it.
Conduit is cheap and allows for pulling new or additional conductors in
the future. You generally don't run Romex in conduit either, you usually
pull individual THHN conductors. Moisture in the PVC conduit will
certainly happen, but rarely bothers the conductors in it.

wrote:
On Thu, 13 Dec 2007 07:40:30 -0500, wrote:

If he does trench the concrete., Smurf tube is probably the best way
to get the wire in it. That is listed for burial in concrete so he
could just backfill the trench with concrete and be done.

Smurf tube being ENT, the flexible blue sutff

I like your smurf tube name.

ENT seems pretty fragile. Seen significant problems?

--
bud--

On Thu, 13 Dec 2007 18:35:37 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 13 Dec 2007 10:40:14 -0600, bud--
wrote:

I like your smurf tube name.

ENT seems pretty fragile. Seen significant problems?

--
Smurf is really pretty tough. It can be used anywhere you can use
Romex plus embedded in concrete.

As an "unelectrical" anecdotal study, I am also using a piece of 3/4"
smurf to sleeve the steering cable on my boat. 12 years later the
Florida sun, salt water and heat have not hurt it a bit. It didn't get
hard and crack as I suspected it might. Carlon must have some U/V
protection in it. I personally think the listing may be somewhat
conservative.

A word of warning for Smurf tube. Pulling the wire can be harder. I
wouldn't use 1/2" unless it is really short run. Don't bend it unless
you have to. You can't put more than 360 Deg bends between junction
boxes. I would pull the wire before I covered everything up.

In article , writes:
| On Thu, 13 Dec 2007 18:53:53 -0500, Terry
| wrote:
|
| A word of warning for Smurf tube. Pulling the wire can be harder. I
| wouldn't use 1/2" unless it is really short run. Don't bend it unless
| you have to. You can't put more than 360 Deg bends between junction
| boxes. I would pull the wire before I covered everything up.
|
| Carlon would disagree with you on that. I was in a meeting with a
| number of building officials and the carlon rep. He presented data
| that suggested you could "push" wire through 720 degrees of bend and
| said they were trying to get the rule changed. What he did say is you
| have to support the ENT at both ends of every bend and pull the
| straight parts straight. If it is loose it will "belly" and bind the
| conductors.
| I would agree the extra buck for 3/4 is probably worth doing though.
| Once that raceway is in the concrete, you don't want to be chipping it
| out again because your plans changed.
| It would also allow you to exploit a loophole in the low voltage
| rules. If you pulled a "cable" like Romex, UF or better MC through
| there you could also pull in a CAT5 since cable jackets are
| "separation".

Just to be clear: you aren't saying that this "loophole" is unique
to ENT, are you?

Dan Lanciani
ddl@danlan.*com