Today's project: replace the sink strainer in the kitchen sink (it was
of unknown - probably geriatric - age, stopper didn't seal, couldn't
find a replacement stopper to fit) along with the P-trap (was PVC, one
fitting was cracked and leaking) ended up having to get a new tailpiece
extension as well as the new strainer was shallower than the old one,
also some hose and clamps for the dishwasher drain as that looked pretty
shaggy. Ended up having to Sawzall out the old strainer assy. as it
simply would not come out of the sink. Put everything together, pat
self on back... remove old sprayer hose etc. from the sink, as it isn't
hooked to anything and looks like crap... ended up having to Sawzall
that out too, couldn't bust it loose to save my life. Total bill so far
about $80 (had to buy a strainer wrench too as I didn't have one, and
didn't have a wrench big enough to tighten the strainer nut...) girlie
washes some dishes, there's still water on the floor of the cabinet.
Crawl under, it's coming from underneath the faucet. Well, there's no
sense pulling and resealing the faucet even though it's a decent Delta
faucet, because it doesn't have the sprayer hose attachment and the
girlie wants that. To add insult to injury, was laying on my back
looking up at all this stuff and here while the sink is stainless steel,
the little rails that the clamps that hold it to the countertop clip to
are mild steel, rusted to s**t, and disintegrating. So now I'm waiting
for her to come back from wherever she's at to drag her shopping for a
new faucet AND SINK...

Do all around-the-house projects end up like this? If so, I might just
have to stop fixing stuff and start placing buckets strategically.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

On Dec 1, 5:23�pm, Nate Nagel wrote:
Today's project: replace the sink strainer in the kitchen sink (it was
of unknown - probably geriatric - age, stopper didn't seal, couldn't
find a replacement stopper to fit) along with the P-trap (was PVC, one
fitting was cracked and leaking) ended up having to get a new tailpiece
extension as well as the new strainer was shallower than the old one,
also some hose and clamps for the dishwasher drain as that looked pretty
shaggy. �Ended up having to Sawzall out the old strainer assy. as it
simply would not come out of the sink. �Put everything together, pat
self on back... �remove old sprayer hose etc. from the sink, as it isn't
hooked to anything and looks like crap... �ended up having to Sawzall
that out too, couldn't bust it loose to save my life. �Total bill so far
about $80 (had to buy a strainer wrench too as I didn't have one, and
didn't have a wrench big enough to tighten the strainer nut...) �girlie
washes some dishes, there's still water on the floor of the cabinet.
Crawl under, it's coming from underneath the faucet. �Well, there's no
sense pulling and resealing the faucet even though it's a decent Delta
faucet, because it doesn't have the sprayer hose attachment and the
girlie wants that. �To add insult to injury, was laying on my back
looking up at all this stuff and here while the sink is stainless steel,
the little rails that the clamps that hold it to the countertop clip to
are mild steel, rusted to s**t, and disintegrating. �So now I'm waiting
for her to come back from wherever she's at to drag her shopping for a
new faucet AND SINK...

Do all around-the-house projects end up like this? �If so, I might just
have to stop fixing stuff and start placing buckets strategically.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.http://members.cox.net/njnagel

yeah sadly jobs do grow, espically when stuff is let go or old. look
at the brite side a plumber would of likely charged 500 bucks

wrote:
On Dec 1, 5:23�pm, Nate Nagel wrote:

Today's project: replace the sink strainer in the kitchen sink (it was
of unknown - probably geriatric - age, stopper didn't seal, couldn't
find a replacement stopper to fit) along with the P-trap (was PVC, one
fitting was cracked and leaking) ended up having to get a new tailpiece
extension as well as the new strainer was shallower than the old one,
also some hose and clamps for the dishwasher drain as that looked pretty
shaggy. �Ended up having to Sawzall out the old strainer assy. as it
simply would not come out of the sink. �Put everything together, pat
self on back... �remove old sprayer hose etc. from the sink, as it isn't
hooked to anything and looks like crap... �ended up having to Sawzall
that out too, couldn't bust it loose to save my life. �Total bill so far
about $80 (had to buy a strainer wrench too as I didn't have one, and
didn't have a wrench big enough to tighten the strainer nut...) �girlie
washes some dishes, there's still water on the floor of the cabinet.
Crawl under, it's coming from underneath the faucet. �Well, there's no
sense pulling and resealing the faucet even though it's a decent Delta
faucet, because it doesn't have the sprayer hose attachment and the
girlie wants that. �To add insult to injury, was laying on my back
looking up at all this stuff and here while the sink is stainless steel,
the little rails that the clamps that hold it to the countertop clip to
are mild steel, rusted to s**t, and disintegrating. �So now I'm waiting
for her to come back from wherever she's at to drag her shopping for a
new faucet AND SINK...

Do all around-the-house projects end up like this? �If so, I might just
have to stop fixing stuff and start placing buckets strategically.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.http://members.cox.net/njnagel


yeah sadly jobs do grow, espically when stuff is let go or old. look
at the brite side a plumber would of likely charged 500 bucks

I wouldn't call the last plumber to come out here for anything; I think
he is responsible for at least some of the mess. I know that there was
a minor water incident down the wall below the kitchen when the PO's had
the dishwasher replaced immediately prior to us looking at the house;
apparently he thought hose clamps on the drain tubing were optional...
sheesh. There still were no clamps on the hose from the air gap to the
tailpiece, I added some when I replaced the hose.

Which brings me to the question - I have a single, 6" deep sink right
now. I'm thinking of possibly replacing it with an 8" deep one, or
maybe even cutting the hole in the countertop bigger and putting in a
double sink.

questions:

1) in a small kitchen, is a double sink really worthwhile, or is it
generally not fully utilized? Obviously this is one of those
personal-experience type questions. I'm fairly certain she would prefer
a deeper one as well, and I do think it might keep the counter neater by
minimizing splashing.

2) I think the girlie would really prefer the look of a white porcelain
enameled sink to another stainless steel one. Do these tend to hold up
well without scratching? The only houses I've lived in with them came
with them and by the time I got there were of such an age that I
couldn't really tell if any new scratches got added.

3) All of the sinks that we looked at at the Despot (only place that was
open on a Saturday evening) only had four holes for fixtures. Is an air
gap actually required for a dishwasher drain? ISTR in my parents' house
that there was no air gap, the drain hose was simply looped up high and
then came down into the tailpiece of the sink drain. Or is it just SOP
for an installer to cut another hole if a dishwasher is installed? If
so, how would one do that in a cast iron sink?

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

"Nate Nagel" wrote in message
1) in a small kitchen, is a double sink really worthwhile, or is it
generally not fully utilized? Obviously this is one of those
personal-experience type questions. I'm fairly certain she would prefer a
deeper one as well, and I do think it might keep the counter neater by
minimizing splashing.

We have a double sink and never use one half. Most of hte time it is coved
witha cutting board to get more counter space. I'd go for deeper. Each haf
is not as wide as a single sink too makingit even worse. We hate it.


2) I think the girlie would really prefer the look of a white porcelain
enameled sink to another stainless steel one. Do these tend to hold up
well without scratching? The only houses I've lived in with them came
with them and by the time I got there were of such an age that I couldn't
really tell if any new scratches got added.

Get a good porcelain covered cast iron. Cheap enamed stell ones tend to
chip easier.


3) All of the sinks that we looked at at the Despot (only place that was
open on a Saturday evening) only had four holes for fixtures. Is an air
gap actually required for a dishwasher drain?

Sme local codes call for it. I don't have one and never had a problem.

Nate Nagel wrote:
wrote:
On Dec 1, 5:23�pm, Nate Nagel wrote:

Today's project: replace the sink strainer in the kitchen sink (it was
of unknown - probably geriatric - age, stopper didn't seal, couldn't
find a replacement stopper to fit) along with the P-trap (was PVC, one
fitting was cracked and leaking) ended up having to get a new tailpiece
extension as well as the new strainer was shallower than the old one,
also some hose and clamps for the dishwasher drain as that looked pretty
shaggy. �Ended up having to Sawzall out the old strainer assy. as it
simply would not come out of the sink. �Put everything together, pat
self on back... �remove old sprayer hose etc. from the sink, as it isn't
hooked to anything and looks like crap... �ended up having to Sawzall
that out too, couldn't bust it loose to save my life. �Total bill so far
about $80 (had to buy a strainer wrench too as I didn't have one, and
didn't have a wrench big enough to tighten the strainer nut...) �girlie
washes some dishes, there's still water on the floor of the cabinet.
Crawl under, it's coming from underneath the faucet. �Well, there's no
sense pulling and resealing the faucet even though it's a decent Delta
faucet, because it doesn't have the sprayer hose attachment and the
girlie wants that. �To add insult to injury, was laying on my back
looking up at all this stuff and here while the sink is stainless steel,
the little rails that the clamps that hold it to the countertop clip to
are mild steel, rusted to s**t, and disintegrating. �So now I'm waiting
for her to come back from wherever she's at to drag her shopping for a
new faucet AND SINK...

Do all around-the-house projects end up like this? �If so, I might just
have to stop fixing stuff and start placing buckets strategically.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.http://members.cox.net/njnagel


yeah sadly jobs do grow, espically when stuff is let go or old. look
at the brite side a plumber would of likely charged 500 bucks

I wouldn't call the last plumber to come out here for anything; I think
he is responsible for at least some of the mess. I know that there was
a minor water incident down the wall below the kitchen when the PO's had
the dishwasher replaced immediately prior to us looking at the house;
apparently he thought hose clamps on the drain tubing were optional...
sheesh. There still were no clamps on the hose from the air gap to the
tailpiece, I added some when I replaced the hose.

Which brings me to the question - I have a single, 6" deep sink right
now. I'm thinking of possibly replacing it with an 8" deep one, or
maybe even cutting the hole in the countertop bigger and putting in a
double sink.

questions:

1) in a small kitchen, is a double sink really worthwhile, or is it
generally not fully utilized? Obviously this is one of those
personal-experience type questions. I'm fairly certain she would prefer
a deeper one as well, and I do think it might keep the counter neater by
minimizing splashing.

When hand-washing dishes I like a double sink. But then its not really
used except to let the dishes drip dry in on a wire rack that I have
laying across the second sink.
Way back when I was single and had roommates we use one sink to hold
dirty dishes and the other one free to use as a sink.


2) I think the girlie would really prefer the look of a white porcelain
enameled sink to another stainless steel one. Do these tend to hold up
well without scratching? The only houses I've lived in with them came
with them and by the time I got there were of such an age that I
couldn't really tell if any new scratches got added.

3) All of the sinks that we looked at at the Despot (only place that was
open on a Saturday evening) only had four holes for fixtures. Is an air
gap actually required for a dishwasher drain? ISTR in my parents' house
that there was no air gap, the drain hose was simply looped up high and
then came down into the tailpiece of the sink drain. Or is it just SOP
for an installer to cut another hole if a dishwasher is installed? If
so, how would one do that in a cast iron sink?


A lot of newer faucets have the integrated pull out sprayer. I find
these better and more useful than the old awkward hose sprayers which
rarely got used except to spay me in the face when I grab it wrong...

These integrated types take up less holes. Some models use only one hole
total for spigot/sprayer and H&C water valves. So changing the faucet to
one of these may give you extra holes for the air gap. At one house
filled 2 unused holes with pump dispensers for liquid hand soap and dish
washing liquid. Then she wanted a hand lotion dispenser...

The fixture I have now has pullout sprayer and covers 3 holes. 1 is soap
dispenser (built into the fixture flange), 1 for everything else, 1 hole
is not used but covered by the flange.

Having to have an air gap depends on how the dishwasher and drain is
installed. I don't remember the details. Something to do with how high
the drain hose is in relation to the connection point. Look at the
dishwasher installation manual. The last dishwasher I installed did not
need one as per the installation instructions. I believe I used the high
loop method.
As someone else said codes may require one regardless.
I've seen some air gaps put into the counter top would not recommend that.

Kevin


nate

Kevin Ricks wrote:
Nate Nagel wrote:

snip


3) All of the sinks that we looked at at the Despot (only place that
was open on a Saturday evening) only had four holes for fixtures. Is
an air gap actually required for a dishwasher drain? ISTR in my
parents' house that there was no air gap, the drain hose was simply
looped up high and then came down into the tailpiece of the sink
drain. Or is it just SOP for an installer to cut another hole if a
dishwasher is installed? If so, how would one do that in a cast iron
sink?


A lot of newer faucets have the integrated pull out sprayer. I find
these better and more useful than the old awkward hose sprayers which
rarely got used except to spay me in the face when I grab it wrong...

These integrated types take up less holes. Some models use only one hole
total for spigot/sprayer and H&C water valves. So changing the faucet to
one of these may give you extra holes for the air gap. At one house
filled 2 unused holes with pump dispensers for liquid hand soap and dish
washing liquid. Then she wanted a hand lotion dispenser...

The fixture I have now has pullout sprayer and covers 3 holes. 1 is soap
dispenser (built into the fixture flange), 1 for everything else, 1 hole
is not used but covered by the flange.

Having to have an air gap depends on how the dishwasher and drain is
installed. I don't remember the details. Something to do with how high
the drain hose is in relation to the connection point. Look at the
dishwasher installation manual. The last dishwasher I installed did not
need one as per the installation instructions. I believe I used the high
loop method.
As someone else said codes may require one regardless.
I've seen some air gaps put into the counter top would not recommend that.

Kevin

I was kind of shying away from the faucets with the pull out sprayer; I
guess I just kind of considered it something else to go wrong. I was
anticipating everything getting floppy and leaky with age, is this a
real concern? I don't know anyone that has had one for more than a year
or two, so I don't know if I'm worried about nothing or not. I guess I
was just assuming I would be using the separate pull out sprayer for
"KISS" reasons.

Looks like I will have to replace a couple valves too... the hot water
shutoff valve seems to be weeping past the stem (big shocker, house is
60 years old) so the snowballing of the project continues...

I wish I had the intestinal fortitude to attempt rebuilding the valves
in place, but I just don't have the experience that tells me I can do
it. Nothing says "excitement" like soldering while on your back inches
away from wood paneling...

nate

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replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
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"Nate Nagel" wrote in message


I wish I had the intestinal fortitude to attempt rebuilding the valves in
place, but I just don't have the experience that tells me I can do it.
Nothing says "excitement" like soldering while on your back inches away
from wood paneling...

nate

If the valves are very old, forget rebuilding, it will be a PITA at best.
If they are relatively new, replacing the cartridge is simple enough to do.

I used to visit my MIL a couple of times a year and she had similar
situations like a dripping faucet. I'd have fixed it for her, but after all
the years I'd probably have to replace everything out to the street so I
never tried it. If I had a week, it would be easier to just replace
everything along the way. Best thing she ever did was finally sell the
house "as is" and moved in with us. .

Looks like I will have to replace a couple valves too... the hot water
shutoff valve seems to be weeping past the stem (big shocker, house is


ahh before replacing just try tightening the packing nut a quarter
turn. this will compress the packing a little and end the drip.

works over 99% of the time.

if you must replace the valve install ball valves, they cost a bit
more but are far superior, easy to close fast, and last forever

Nate Nagel wrote:


I was kind of shying away from the faucets with the pull out sprayer; I
guess I just kind of considered it something else to go wrong. I was
anticipating everything getting floppy and leaky with age, is this a
real concern? I don't know anyone that has had one for more than a year
or two, so I don't know if I'm worried about nothing or not. I guess I
was just assuming I would be using the separate pull out sprayer for
"KISS" reasons.

We had one for 8 years that we replaced for decor reasons in a remodel. It
worked fine all those years. The current one has about 4 years on it and going
strong. I wouldn't have a kitchen without one.

Looks like I will have to replace a couple valves too... the hot water
shutoff valve seems to be weeping past the stem (big shocker, house is
60 years old) so the snowballing of the project continues...

My rule on old house plumbing is that, once I have started to rebuild a sink or
whatever, to tear it out to the wall (or to the pipes coming out of the wall)
and rebuild forward. I've found it easier and more dependable to put all new
parts in.

-- Doug

On Dec 1, 8:22Â*pm, Nate Nagel wrote:
wrote:
On Dec 1, 5:23�pm, Nate Nagel wrote:

Today's project: replace the sink strainer in the kitchen sink (it was
of unknown - probably geriatric - age, stopper didn't seal, couldn't
find a replacement stopper to fit) along with the P-trap (was PVC, one
fitting was cracked and leaking) ended up having to get a new tailpiece
extension as well as the new strainer was shallower than the old one,
also some hose and clamps for the dishwasher drain as that looked pretty
shaggy. �Ended up having to Sawzall out the old strainer assy. as it
simply would not come out of the sink. �Put everything together, pat
self on back... �remove old sprayer hose etc. from the sink, as it isn't
hooked to anything and looks like crap... �ended up having to Sawzall
that out too, couldn't bust it loose to save my life. �Total bill so far
about $80 (had to buy a strainer wrench too as I didn't have one, and
didn't have a wrench big enough to tighten the strainer nut...) �girlie
washes some dishes, there's still water on the floor of the cabinet.
Crawl under, it's coming from underneath the faucet. �Well, there's no
sense pulling and resealing the faucet even though it's a decent Delta
faucet, because it doesn't have the sprayer hose attachment and the
girlie wants that. �To add insult to injury, was laying on my back
looking up at all this stuff and here while the sink is stainless steel,
the little rails that the clamps that hold it to the countertop clip to
are mild steel, rusted to s**t, and disintegrating. �So now I'm waiting
for her to come back from wherever she's at to drag her shopping for a
new faucet AND SINK...

Do all around-the-house projects end up like this? �If so, I might just
have to stop fixing stuff and start placing buckets strategically.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.http://members.cox.net/njnagel

yeah sadly jobs do grow, espically when stuff is let go or old. look
at the brite side a plumber would of likely charged 500 bucks

I wouldn't call the last plumber to come out here for anything; I think
he is responsible for at least some of the mess. Â*I know that there was
a minor water incident down the wall below the kitchen when the PO's had
the dishwasher replaced immediately prior to us looking at the house;
apparently he thought hose clamps on the drain tubing were optional...
sheesh. Â*There still were no clamps on the hose from the air gap to the
tailpiece, I added some when I replaced the hose.

Which brings me to the question - I have a single, 6" deep sink right
now. Â*I'm thinking of possibly replacing it with an 8" deep one, or
maybe even cutting the hole in the countertop bigger and putting in a
double sink.

questions:

1) in a small kitchen, is a double sink really worthwhile, or is it
generally not fully utilized? Â*Obviously this is one of those
personal-experience type questions. Â*I'm fairly certain she would prefer
a deeper one as well, and I do think it might keep the counter neater by
minimizing splashing.

2) I think the girlie would really prefer the look of a white porcelain
enameled sink to another stainless steel one. Â*Do these tend to hold up
well without scratching? Â*The only houses I've lived in with them came
with them and by the time I got there were of such an age that I
couldn't really tell if any new scratches got added.

3) All of the sinks that we looked at at the Despot (only place that was
open on a Saturday evening) only had four holes for fixtures. Â*Is an air
gap actually required for a dishwasher drain? Â*ISTR in my parents' house
that there was no air gap, the drain hose was simply looped up high and
then came down into the tailpiece of the sink drain. Â*Or is it just SOP
for an installer to cut another hole if a dishwasher is installed? Â*If
so, how would one do that in a cast iron sink?

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.http://members.cox.net/njnagel- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Get the biggest single basin sink that you can fit in your cabinets.
If you have a dishwasher, there is no reason to have two basins.
Period. Home Depot is not the place to shop for kitchen sinks.

Read your dishwasher manual for how to loop your drain line.

Get the biggest single basin sink that you can fit in your cabinets.
If you have a dishwasher, there is no reason to have two basins.
Period. Home Depot is not the place to shop for kitchen sinks.

There is a VERY good reason to have two basins... Thawing items and washing
veggies.

Get a double sink - one side LARGE and one side small.

On Dec 3, 2:40 pm, "Noozer" wrote:
Get the biggest single basin sink that you can fit in your cabinets.
If you have a dishwasher, there is no reason to have two basins.
Period. Home Depot is not the place to shop for kitchen sinks.

There is a VERY good reason to have two basins... Thawing items and washing
veggies.



You don't need to sacrifice large interrupted space for thawing items
in water. Thaw items in bowl or in a small plasitc bin that you store
under the sink. Place the bin in the sink, and you have a water thaw
area that doesn't pose a permanent obstacle.

Now you can can wash cookie sheets, fridge shelves, oversized pots and
pans, etc. And with one drain, you don't have to scoop crud from one
side to the side with a garbage disposal (yuck). Every scrap of food
waste in the sink gets ground up automatically.

So in fact there is no reason for a double basin sink if you have a
dishwasher.

Nate Nagel wrote:
Today's project: replace the sink strainer in the kitchen sink (it was
of unknown - probably geriatric - age, stopper didn't seal, couldn't
find a replacement stopper to fit) along with the P-trap (was PVC, one
fitting was cracked and leaking) ended up having to get a new
tailpiece extension as well as the new strainer was shallower than
the old one, also some hose and clamps for the dishwasher drain as
that looked pretty shaggy.

You could have bought a drain stopper; large (5"), circular, flat piece of
rubber. About fifty cents.



Do all around-the-house projects end up like this? If so, I might
just have to stop fixing stuff and start placing buckets
strategically.

Yes.

I don't know about buckets, but I did once see this bit graffiti:


Differences between Univ of Michigan girls and toilet seats:
1. Toilet seats always go down for you.
2. Holes in toilet seats don't get stretched out.
3. You can get used to the looks of a toilet seat.
4. You can talk to a toilet seat.
5. You don't have to kiss a toilet seat to use it.
6. Toilet seats take a lot of **** without complaining.

On Dec 1, 5:23 pm, Nate Nagel wrote:
Today's project: replace the sink strainer in the kitchen sink (it was
of unknown - probably geriatric - age, stopper didn't seal, couldn't
find a replacement stopper to fit) along with the P-trap (was PVC, one
fitting was cracked and leaking) ended up having to get a new tailpiece
extension as well as the new strainer was shallower than the old one,
also some hose and clamps for the dishwasher drain as that looked pretty
shaggy. Ended up having to Sawzall out the old strainer assy. as it
simply would not come out of the sink. Put everything together, pat
self on back... remove old sprayer hose etc. from the sink, as it isn't
hooked to anything and looks like crap... ended up having to Sawzall
that out too, couldn't bust it loose to save my life. Total bill so far
about $80 (had to buy a strainer wrench too as I didn't have one, and
didn't have a wrench big enough to tighten the strainer nut...) girlie
washes some dishes, there's still water on the floor of the cabinet.
Crawl under, it's coming from underneath the faucet. Well, there's no
sense pulling and resealing the faucet even though it's a decent Delta
faucet, because it doesn't have the sprayer hose attachment and the
girlie wants that. To add insult to injury, was laying on my back
looking up at all this stuff and here while the sink is stainless steel,
the little rails that the clamps that hold it to the countertop clip to
are mild steel, rusted to s**t, and disintegrating. So now I'm waiting
for her to come back from wherever she's at to drag her shopping for a
new faucet AND SINK...

Do all around-the-house projects end up like this? If so, I might just
have to stop fixing stuff and start placing buckets strategically.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.http://members.cox.net/njnagel

In the long run it'll probably be cheaper to replace the girlie. I
doubt a dog will care if you have a strainer, stopper or sprayer. ;-)

female really wants a new kitchen, its only a matter of time

wrote:
female really wants a new kitchen, its only a matter of time

Oh, that's a given. Not going to happen for a few years at least
though, because step one would be to remove the window from the back
wall and install a shorter one, so the counter can continue around the
back wall of the house (I've already been kicking around ideas in my
head...)

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
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"Nate Nagel" wrote in message
Oh, that's a given. Not going to happen for a few years at least though,
because step one would be to remove the window from the back wall and
install a shorter one, so the counter can continue around the back wall of
the house (I've already been kicking around ideas in my head...)

nate

Projects like that can be costly. Since the window is smaller, you have to
fill in with something outside. Next thing you know, it is a 20 x 30 deck
and new siding for the entire house.

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
"Nate Nagel" wrote in message

Oh, that's a given. Not going to happen for a few years at least though,
because step one would be to remove the window from the back wall and
install a shorter one, so the counter can continue around the back wall of
the house (I've already been kicking around ideas in my head...)

nate


Projects like that can be costly. Since the window is smaller, you have to
fill in with something outside. Next thing you know, it is a 20 x 30 deck
and new siding for the entire house.

It's brick, that's why I haven't even started yet. And the inside walls
are plaster. Two materials I have no experience working with.

nate


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replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
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DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Dec 1, 5:23 pm, Nate Nagel wrote:
Today's project: replace the sink strainer in the kitchen sink (it was
of unknown - probably geriatric - age, stopper didn't seal, couldn't
find a replacement stopper to fit) along with the P-trap (was PVC, one
fitting was cracked and leaking) ended up having to get a new tailpiece
extension as well as the new strainer was shallower than the old one,
also some hose and clamps for the dishwasher drain as that looked pretty
shaggy. Ended up having to Sawzall out the old strainer assy. as it
simply would not come out of the sink. Put everything together, pat
self on back... remove old sprayer hose etc. from the sink, as it isn't
hooked to anything and looks like crap... ended up having to Sawzall
that out too, couldn't bust it loose to save my life. Total bill so far
about $80 (had to buy a strainer wrench too as I didn't have one, and
didn't have a wrench big enough to tighten the strainer nut...) girlie
washes some dishes, there's still water on the floor of the cabinet.
Crawl under, it's coming from underneath the faucet. Well, there's no
sense pulling and resealing the faucet even though it's a decent Delta
faucet, because it doesn't have the sprayer hose attachment and the
girlie wants that. To add insult to injury, was laying on my back
looking up at all this stuff and here while the sink is stainless steel,
the little rails that the clamps that hold it to the countertop clip to
are mild steel, rusted to s**t, and disintegrating. So now I'm waiting
for her to come back from wherever she's at to drag her shopping for a
new faucet AND SINK...

Do all around-the-house projects end up like this? If so, I might just
have to stop fixing stuff and start placing buckets strategically.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.http://members.cox.net/njnagel

In the long run it'll probably be cheaper to replace the girlie. I
doubt a dog will care if you have a strainer, stopper or sprayer. ;-)

A dog ain't as much fun to have around. (Leastways, I hope not...)

aem sends...

Nate Nagel wrote:

Today's project: replace the sink strainer in the kitchen sink (it was
of unknown - probably geriatric - age, stopper didn't seal, couldn't
find a replacement stopper to fit) along with the P-trap (was PVC, one
fitting was cracked and leaking) ended up having to get a new
tailpiece extension as well as the new strainer was shallower than the
old one, also some hose and clamps for the dishwasher drain as that
looked pretty shaggy. Ended up having to Sawzall out the old strainer
assy. as it simply would not come out of the sink. Put everything
together, pat self on back... remove old sprayer hose etc. from the
sink, as it isn't hooked to anything and looks like crap... ended up
having to Sawzall that out too, couldn't bust it loose to save my
life. Total bill so far about $80 (had to buy a strainer wrench too
as I didn't have one, and didn't have a wrench big enough to tighten
the strainer nut...) girlie washes some dishes, there's still water
on the floor of the cabinet. Crawl under, it's coming from underneath
the faucet. Well, there's no sense pulling and resealing the faucet
even though it's a decent Delta faucet, because it doesn't have the
sprayer hose attachment and the girlie wants that. To add insult to
injury, was laying on my back looking up at all this stuff and here
while the sink is stainless steel, the little rails that the clamps
that hold it to the countertop clip to are mild steel, rusted to s**t,
and disintegrating. So now I'm waiting for her to come back from
wherever she's at to drag her shopping for a new faucet AND SINK...

Do all around-the-house projects end up like this? If so, I might
just have to stop fixing stuff and start placing buckets strategically.

nate

Be more charitable next time - help support your local plumber )

On Dec 1, 2:23 pm, Nate Nagel wrote:
Today's project: replace the sink strainer in the kitchen sink (it was
of unknown - probably geriatric - age, stopper didn't seal, couldn't
find a replacement stopper to fit) along with the P-trap (was PVC, one
fitting was cracked and leaking) ended up having to get a new tailpiece
extension as well as the new strainer was shallower than the old one,
also some hose and clamps for the dishwasher drain as that looked pretty
shaggy. Ended up having to Sawzall out the old strainer assy. as it
simply would not come out of the sink. Put everything together, pat
self on back... remove old sprayer hose etc. from the sink, as it isn't
hooked to anything and looks like crap... ended up having to Sawzall
that out too, couldn't bust it loose to save my life. Total bill so far
about $80 (had to buy a strainer wrench too as I didn't have one, and
didn't have a wrench big enough to tighten the strainer nut...) girlie
washes some dishes, there's still water on the floor of the cabinet.
Crawl under, it's coming from underneath the faucet. Well, there's no
sense pulling and resealing the faucet even though it's a decent Delta
faucet, because it doesn't have the sprayer hose attachment and the
girlie wants that. To add insult to injury, was laying on my back
looking up at all this stuff and here while the sink is stainless steel,
the little rails that the clamps that hold it to the countertop clip to
are mild steel, rusted to s**t, and disintegrating. So now I'm waiting
for her to come back from wherever she's at to drag her shopping for a
new faucet AND SINK...

Do all around-the-house projects end up like this? If so, I might just
have to stop fixing stuff and start placing buckets strategically.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.http://members.cox.net/njnagel

Consider yourself fortunate if it stops there. There have been cases
where it progressed to replacing the house.

Harry K

Harry K wrote:
On Dec 1, 2:23 pm, Nate Nagel wrote:
Today's project: replace the sink strainer in the kitchen sink (it was
of unknown - probably geriatric - age, stopper didn't seal, couldn't
find a replacement stopper to fit) along with the P-trap (was PVC, one
fitting was cracked and leaking) ended up having to get a new tailpiece
extension as well as the new strainer was shallower than the old one,
also some hose and clamps for the dishwasher drain as that looked pretty
shaggy. Ended up having to Sawzall out the old strainer assy. as it
simply would not come out of the sink. Put everything together, pat
self on back... remove old sprayer hose etc. from the sink, as it isn't
hooked to anything and looks like crap... ended up having to Sawzall
that out too, couldn't bust it loose to save my life. Total bill so far
about $80 (had to buy a strainer wrench too as I didn't have one, and
didn't have a wrench big enough to tighten the strainer nut...) girlie
washes some dishes, there's still water on the floor of the cabinet.
Crawl under, it's coming from underneath the faucet. Well, there's no
sense pulling and resealing the faucet even though it's a decent Delta
faucet, because it doesn't have the sprayer hose attachment and the
girlie wants that. To add insult to injury, was laying on my back
looking up at all this stuff and here while the sink is stainless steel,
the little rails that the clamps that hold it to the countertop clip to
are mild steel, rusted to s**t, and disintegrating. So now I'm waiting
for her to come back from wherever she's at to drag her shopping for a
new faucet AND SINK...

Do all around-the-house projects end up like this? If so, I might just
have to stop fixing stuff and start placing buckets strategically.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.http://members.cox.net/njnagel

Consider yourself fortunate if it stops there. There have been cases
where it progressed to replacing the house.


Houses are cheap. Women who will let you live inside are priceless....

aem sends...

"Nate Nagel" wrote
Today's project: replace the sink strainer in the kitchen sink (it was of
unknown - probably geriatric - age, stopper didn't seal, couldn't find a
replacement stopper to fit) along with the P-trap (was PVC, one fitting
was cracked and leaking) ended up having to get a new tailpiece extension
as well as the new strainer was shallower than the old one, also some hose
and clamps for the dishwasher drain as that looked pretty shaggy. Ended
up having to Sawzall out the old strainer assy. as it simply would not
come out of the sink. Put everything together, pat self on back...
remove old sprayer hose etc. from the sink, as it isn't hooked to anything
and looks like crap... ended up having to Sawzall that out too, couldn't
bust it loose to save my life. Total bill so far about $80 (had to buy a
strainer wrench too as I didn't have one, and didn't have a wrench big
enough to tighten the strainer nut...) girlie washes some dishes, there's
still water on the floor of the cabinet. Crawl under, it's coming from
underneath the faucet. Well, there's no sense pulling and resealing the
faucet even though it's a decent Delta faucet, because it doesn't have the
sprayer hose attachment and the girlie wants that. To add insult to
injury, was laying on my back looking up at all this stuff and here while
the sink is stainless steel, the little rails that the clamps that hold it
to the countertop clip to are mild steel, rusted to s**t, and
disintegrating. So now I'm waiting for her to come back from wherever
she's at to drag her shopping for a new faucet AND SINK...

Do all around-the-house projects end up like this? If so, I might just
have to stop fixing stuff and start placing buckets strategically.
===
It's because you called her "girlie." Chicks hate that. She cursed you.

Gini wrote:

"Nate Nagel" wrote
Today's project: replace the sink strainer in the kitchen sink (it was of
unknown - probably geriatric - age, stopper didn't seal, couldn't find a
replacement stopper to fit) along with the P-trap (was PVC, one fitting
was cracked and leaking) ended up having to get a new tailpiece extension
as well as the new strainer was shallower than the old one, also some hose
and clamps for the dishwasher drain as that looked pretty shaggy. Ended
up having to Sawzall out the old strainer assy. as it simply would not
come out of the sink. Put everything together, pat self on back...
remove old sprayer hose etc. from the sink, as it isn't hooked to anything
and looks like crap... ended up having to Sawzall that out too, couldn't
bust it loose to save my life. Total bill so far about $80 (had to buy a
strainer wrench too as I didn't have one, and didn't have a wrench big
enough to tighten the strainer nut...) girlie washes some dishes, there's
still water on the floor of the cabinet. Crawl under, it's coming from
underneath the faucet. Well, there's no sense pulling and resealing the
faucet even though it's a decent Delta faucet, because it doesn't have the
sprayer hose attachment and the girlie wants that. To add insult to
injury, was laying on my back looking up at all this stuff and here while
the sink is stainless steel, the little rails that the clamps that hold it
to the countertop clip to are mild steel, rusted to s**t, and
disintegrating. So now I'm waiting for her to come back from wherever
she's at to drag her shopping for a new faucet AND SINK...

Do all around-the-house projects end up like this? If so, I might just
have to stop fixing stuff and start placing buckets strategically.
===
It's because you called her "girlie." Chicks hate that. She cursed you.

Try "Chicklet", that should go over well... assuming you have good
insurance...

"Nate Nagel" wrote in message
...
Today's project: replace the sink strainer in the kitchen sink (it was of
unknown - probably geriatric - age, stopper didn't seal, couldn't find a
replacement stopper to fit) along with the P-trap (was PVC, one fitting
was cracked and leaking) ended up having to get a new tailpiece extension
as well as the new strainer was shallower than the old one, also some hose
and clamps for the dishwasher drain as that looked pretty shaggy.
Do all around-the-house projects end up like this? If so, I might just
have to stop fixing stuff and start placing buckets strategically.


Of course not. Most are worse. Last time I decided to paint the family room
(1 gallon for ceiling, 2 for walls) I ended up spending $3000 and two weeks.

They do at my very old house!

Basically whenever I tear anything apart, I find more problems and the
project winds up costing a lot more than I expected.

For example I had a leaky horizontal drain pipe going from the kitchen sink
to outside. A few bucks to replace right? NO! I wound up having to replace
that pipe, the pipe going down, and the pipe going all the way under the
house to the other side of the house.

The previous owner of the house installed this drain pipe (under the house)
basically level. Then proceeded to fill it up with grease from the kitchen.
It was solid grease for the entire length of the pipe. Then they poured tons
of drain cleaner into the drain which ate away at the pipes and it was
actually draining out the bottom of the pipe and not a drop going into the
sewer. Luckily plastic drain pipe is not too expensive, so was just a lot of
work. (I installed the new drain pipe at the correct angle.)


"Nate Nagel" wrote in message
Today's project: replace the sink strainer in the kitchen sink (it was of
unknown - probably geriatric - age, stopper didn't seal, couldn't find a
replacement stopper to fit) along with the P-trap (was PVC, one fitting
was cracked and leaking) ended up having to get a new tailpiece extension
as well as the new strainer was shallower than the old one, also some hose
and clamps for the dishwasher drain as that looked pretty shaggy. Ended
up having to Sawzall out the old strainer assy. as it simply would not
come out of the sink. Put everything together, pat self on back...
remove old sprayer hose etc. from the sink, as it isn't hooked to anything
and looks like crap... ended up having to Sawzall that out too, couldn't
bust it loose to save my life. Total bill so far about $80 (had to buy a
strainer wrench too as I didn't have one, and didn't have a wrench big
enough to tighten the strainer nut...) girlie washes some dishes, there's
still water on the floor of the cabinet. Crawl under, it's coming from
underneath the faucet. Well, there's no sense pulling and resealing the
faucet even though it's a decent Delta faucet, because it doesn't have the
sprayer hose attachment and the girlie wants that. To add insult to
injury, was laying on my back looking up at all this stuff and here while
the sink is stainless steel, the little rails that the clamps that hold it
to the countertop clip to are mild steel, rusted to s**t, and
disintegrating. So now I'm waiting for her to come back from wherever
she's at to drag her shopping for a new faucet AND SINK...

Do all around-the-house projects end up like this? If so, I might just
have to stop fixing stuff and start placing buckets strategically.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

Bill wrote:
They do at my very old house!

Basically whenever I tear anything apart, I find more problems and the
project winds up costing a lot more than I expected.

For example I had a leaky horizontal drain pipe going from the kitchen sink
to outside. A few bucks to replace right? NO! I wound up having to replace
that pipe, the pipe going down, and the pipe going all the way under the
house to the other side of the house.

The previous owner of the house installed this drain pipe (under the house)
basically level. Then proceeded to fill it up with grease from the kitchen.
It was solid grease for the entire length of the pipe. Then they poured tons
of drain cleaner into the drain which ate away at the pipes and it was
actually draining out the bottom of the pipe and not a drop going into the
sewer. Luckily plastic drain pipe is not too expensive, so was just a lot of
work. (I installed the new drain pipe at the correct angle.)

Chuckle. I always plan on a project taking twice as long as it should,
and costing half again as much money. I also try to plan a fallback
position- if the project utterly crashes and burns on me, how do I keep
the house livable and weather proof, etc, in the meantime, while I call
in professional help? (I'm a big believer in having shutoff valves on
plumbing runs, replacing all the replaceable pieces as long as I have
something apart anyway, etc. And never start a plumbing project past
noon on Saturday- starting later will ensure you are missing a needed
part when the stores close.) Parts are cheap, my time and ambition are
precious. If I don't have a warm fuzzy that I can do something
successfully, I hire it out, and watch and learn for next time.

aem sends...

aemeijers wrote:
Bill wrote:

They do at my very old house!

Basically whenever I tear anything apart, I find more problems and the
project winds up costing a lot more than I expected.

For example I had a leaky horizontal drain pipe going from the kitchen
sink to outside. A few bucks to replace right? NO! I wound up having
to replace that pipe, the pipe going down, and the pipe going all the
way under the house to the other side of the house.

The previous owner of the house installed this drain pipe (under the
house) basically level. Then proceeded to fill it up with grease from
the kitchen. It was solid grease for the entire length of the pipe.
Then they poured tons of drain cleaner into the drain which ate away
at the pipes and it was actually draining out the bottom of the pipe
and not a drop going into the sewer. Luckily plastic drain pipe is not
too expensive, so was just a lot of work. (I installed the new drain
pipe at the correct angle.)

Chuckle. I always plan on a project taking twice as long as it should,
and costing half again as much money. I also try to plan a fallback
position- if the project utterly crashes and burns on me, how do I keep
the house livable and weather proof, etc, in the meantime, while I call
in professional help? (I'm a big believer in having shutoff valves on
plumbing runs, replacing all the replaceable pieces as long as I have
something apart anyway, etc. And never start a plumbing project past
noon on Saturday- starting later will ensure you are missing a needed
part when the stores close.) Parts are cheap, my time and ambition are
precious. If I don't have a warm fuzzy that I can do something
successfully, I hire it out, and watch and learn for next time.

aem sends...

Past noon? The real plumbing supply place near me closes at 1PM on
Saturday, leaving me only the fallback of Home Despot until Monday
evening. You're a lucky man.

Yes, I started demoing my sink drain at about 8AM on Saturday because I
figured I would demo first, then buy what I needed before the store
closed. Came upstairs while I was getting ready to leave and SWMBO was
asleep with a pillow over her head.

nate

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replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

aemeijers wrote:

Bill wrote:
They do at my very old house!

Basically whenever I tear anything apart, I find more problems and the
project winds up costing a lot more than I expected.

For example I had a leaky horizontal drain pipe going from the kitchen sink
to outside. A few bucks to replace right? NO! I wound up having to replace
that pipe, the pipe going down, and the pipe going all the way under the
house to the other side of the house.

The previous owner of the house installed this drain pipe (under the house)
basically level. Then proceeded to fill it up with grease from the kitchen.
It was solid grease for the entire length of the pipe. Then they poured tons
of drain cleaner into the drain which ate away at the pipes and it was
actually draining out the bottom of the pipe and not a drop going into the
sewer. Luckily plastic drain pipe is not too expensive, so was just a lot of
work. (I installed the new drain pipe at the correct angle.)

Chuckle. I always plan on a project taking twice as long as it should,
and costing half again as much money. I also try to plan a fallback
position- if the project utterly crashes and burns on me, how do I keep
the house livable and weather proof, etc, in the meantime, while I call
in professional help? (I'm a big believer in having shutoff valves on
plumbing runs, replacing all the replaceable pieces as long as I have
something apart anyway, etc. And never start a plumbing project past
noon on Saturday- starting later will ensure you are missing a needed
part when the stores close.) Parts are cheap, my time and ambition are
precious. If I don't have a warm fuzzy that I can do something
successfully, I hire it out, and watch and learn for next time.

aem sends...

Parts (both plumbing and electrical) are cheap, so I keep well stocked
parts kits with everything I might need for the typical projects. I
figure the perhaps $100 (combined) in parts on hand will easily save
that just in the gas that would otherwise be required to run out and get
parts as needed.

Pete C. wrote:
aemeijers wrote:
Bill wrote:
They do at my very old house!

(snip)

Parts (both plumbing and electrical) are cheap, so I keep well stocked
parts kits with everything I might need for the typical projects. I
figure the perhaps $100 (combined) in parts on hand will easily save
that just in the gas that would otherwise be required to run out and get
parts as needed.

I'll agree with that. I'm not organized enough to build a stockpile in
any planned fashion, but I always keep any extra parts- every few years
I get motivated enough to sort out all the misc screws, bolts, brackets,
etc. And when I replaced some 2-hole outlets and some worn-out switches,
I rounded up the numbers and bought the 'contractor' 10-packs, since the
unit cost was lower anyway. I've used a couple from shelf stock since
then. Fasteners, unless they are expensive, I will buy by the box
instead of the overpriced baggies.

I really need to get off my ass (and off this time-sucking Usenet) and
sort out that island of trash-picked milk crates in my basement, where
my tool and part stockpiles have sat since I moved in 2.5 years ago.
They are kind of sorted by category, but small bins (that I don't
have) on a bank of shelves down there (that I haven't built yet) would
work SO much better...

(the milk crates did work out pretty well in the 2x5 patio storage
closet in the apartment where I lived for 12 years before buying the
house...)

aem sends...

Nate Nagel wrote:

Today's project: replace the sink strainer in the kitchen sink (it was
of unknown - probably geriatric - age,
...
Do all around-the-house projects end up like this?

Doug's law of old houses: Every little project has a big one hiding behind it.

-- Doug