Hi everyone,

The other night the electricity suddenly blacked out on one side of
the house, after turning on a 1500 watt space heater. I then checked
out the main breaker box to see what had tripped. But after checking
the breakers, none of them looked like they had tripped.

So I then went outside to where the electric meter is at, and
underneath the meter is another box, which contains only one big
circuit breaker rated for 100 amps or so. As I lifted off the lid
of the box to check out the breaker, I noticed some kind of arcing,
or sparks, going on behind the panel. However, this breaker hadn't
tripped either, but when I placed my fingers on it, it did have a
somewhat warm or hot feel.

So while it hadn't visually tripped, I decided to switch the breaker
off, and then switch it back on. I then looked over at the house,
and noticed that all lights were back on in the side that had blacked
out. Switching this breaker on and off had a reset effect.

As I was walking back to the house, the electricity flickered out
again. I turned around and walked back to the electric meter and then
switched the breaker on and off again. When I switched it on, I could
hear a sort of sizzling noise. The electricity was back on.. But
the electricity only stayed on for about an hour or so and then the
ENTIRE house blacked out. It was like that for the rest of the
cold night.

The next morning, I went back outside to the main meter, and switched
the breaker off, and then on. It had a reset effect and the
electricity was back on throughout the entire house and thankfully it
has stayed that way the rest of the day. I made sure to avoid
plugging in the space heater that triggered all of this mess.

I was just wondering....does anyone have any idea as to what could be
going wrong? None of the circuit breakers look like they have tripped
after visually inspecting them. I know this isn't a problem on the
electric company's end because they sent a crew to check it out with
their gauges.

Could this most likely a problem with the main breakers, in particular
the one under the electric meter, and they'll need replacement? I
think that if I do need to replace the breaker under the meter, I'll
have to hire an electrician to do that work. But before calling
anyone, I'm trying to see if there is a way I could trouble-shoot on
my own and maybe solve the problem before spending any money.

In the breaker box inside of the house, there is also a main switch
breaker (about 100 amps rated) as well.....should I replace this with
a new one and see if that hopefully helps things before calling out
the electrician, or that most likely isn't the culprit?

thanks,
tysteel

email:
tysteel5000 aol dot com

tysteel wrote:
Hi everyone,

The other night the electricity suddenly blacked out on one side of
the house, after turning on a 1500 watt space heater. I then checked
out the main breaker box to see what had tripped. But after checking
the breakers, none of them looked like they had tripped.

So I then went outside to where the electric meter is at, and
underneath the meter is another box, which contains only one big
circuit breaker rated for 100 amps or so. As I lifted off the lid
of the box to check out the breaker, I noticed some kind of arcing,
or sparks, going on behind the panel. However, this breaker hadn't
tripped either, but when I placed my fingers on it, it did have a
somewhat warm or hot feel.

So while it hadn't visually tripped, I decided to switch the breaker
off, and then switch it back on. I then looked over at the house,
and noticed that all lights were back on in the side that had blacked
out. Switching this breaker on and off had a reset effect.

As I was walking back to the house, the electricity flickered out
again. I turned around and walked back to the electric meter and then
switched the breaker on and off again. When I switched it on, I could
hear a sort of sizzling noise. The electricity was back on.. But
the electricity only stayed on for about an hour or so and then the
ENTIRE house blacked out. It was like that for the rest of the
cold night.

The next morning, I went back outside to the main meter, and switched
the breaker off, and then on. It had a reset effect and the
electricity was back on throughout the entire house and thankfully it
has stayed that way the rest of the day. I made sure to avoid
plugging in the space heater that triggered all of this mess.

I was just wondering....does anyone have any idea as to what could be
going wrong? None of the circuit breakers look like they have tripped
after visually inspecting them. I know this isn't a problem on the
electric company's end because they sent a crew to check it out with
their gauges.

Could this most likely a problem with the main breakers, in particular
the one under the electric meter, and they'll need replacement? I
think that if I do need to replace the breaker under the meter, I'll
have to hire an electrician to do that work. But before calling
anyone, I'm trying to see if there is a way I could trouble-shoot on
my own and maybe solve the problem before spending any money.

In the breaker box inside of the house, there is also a main switch
breaker (about 100 amps rated) as well.....should I replace this with
a new one and see if that hopefully helps things before calling out
the electrician, or that most likely isn't the culprit?

thanks,
tysteel

email:
tysteel5000 aol dot com

Hi,
Have you ckecked loose connections on the main breaker outside?

On Sat, 24 Nov 2007 22:12:14 -0800 (PST), tysteel
wrote:

Hi everyone,

The other night the electricity suddenly blacked out on one side of
the house, after turning on a 1500 watt space heater. I then checked
out the main breaker box to see what had tripped. But after checking
the breakers, none of them looked like they had tripped.

It sounds to me like the space heater is the problem. You didn't say
if you had unpluged it before trying to reset the main disconnect
breaker.



So I then went outside to where the electric meter is at, and
underneath the meter is another box, which contains only one big
circuit breaker rated for 100 amps or so. As I lifted off the lid
of the box to check out the breaker, I noticed some kind of arcing,
or sparks, going on behind the panel. However, this breaker hadn't
tripped either, but when I placed my fingers on it, it did have a
somewhat warm or hot feel.

So while it hadn't visually tripped, I decided to switch the breaker
off, and then switch it back on. I then looked over at the house,
and noticed that all lights were back on in the side that had blacked
out. Switching this breaker on and off had a reset effect.

As I was walking back to the house, the electricity flickered out
again. I turned around and walked back to the electric meter and then
switched the breaker on and off again. When I switched it on, I could
hear a sort of sizzling noise. The electricity was back on.. But
the electricity only stayed on for about an hour or so and then the
ENTIRE house blacked out. It was like that for the rest of the
cold night.

The next morning, I went back outside to the main meter, and switched
the breaker off, and then on. It had a reset effect and the
electricity was back on throughout the entire house and thankfully it
has stayed that way the rest of the day. I made sure to avoid
plugging in the space heater that triggered all of this mess.

I was just wondering....does anyone have any idea as to what could be
going wrong? None of the circuit breakers look like they have tripped
after visually inspecting them. I know this isn't a problem on the
electric company's end because they sent a crew to check it out with
their gauges.

Could this most likely a problem with the main breakers, in particular
the one under the electric meter, and they'll need replacement? I
think that if I do need to replace the breaker under the meter, I'll
have to hire an electrician to do that work. But before calling
anyone, I'm trying to see if there is a way I could trouble-shoot on
my own and maybe solve the problem before spending any money.

In the breaker box inside of the house, there is also a main switch
breaker (about 100 amps rated) as well.....should I replace this with
a new one and see if that hopefully helps things before calling out
the electrician, or that most likely isn't the culprit?

thanks,
tysteel

email:
tysteel5000 aol dot com

tysteel wrote:
Hi everyone,

The other night the electricity suddenly blacked out on one side of
the house, after turning on a 1500 watt space heater. I then checked
out the main breaker box to see what had tripped. But after checking
the breakers, none of them looked like they had tripped.

So I then went outside to where the electric meter is at, and
underneath the meter is another box, which contains only one big
circuit breaker rated for 100 amps or so. As I lifted off the lid
of the box to check out the breaker, I noticed some kind of arcing,
or sparks, going on behind the panel. However, this breaker hadn't
tripped either, but when I placed my fingers on it, it did have a
somewhat warm or hot feel.

So while it hadn't visually tripped, I decided to switch the breaker
off, and then switch it back on. I then looked over at the house,
and noticed that all lights were back on in the side that had blacked
out. Switching this breaker on and off had a reset effect.

As I was walking back to the house, the electricity flickered out
again. I turned around and walked back to the electric meter and then
switched the breaker on and off again. When I switched it on, I could
hear a sort of sizzling noise. The electricity was back on.. But
the electricity only stayed on for about an hour or so and then the
ENTIRE house blacked out. It was like that for the rest of the
cold night.

The next morning, I went back outside to the main meter, and switched
the breaker off, and then on. It had a reset effect and the
electricity was back on throughout the entire house and thankfully it
has stayed that way the rest of the day. I made sure to avoid
plugging in the space heater that triggered all of this mess.

I was just wondering....does anyone have any idea as to what could be
going wrong? None of the circuit breakers look like they have tripped
after visually inspecting them. I know this isn't a problem on the
electric company's end because they sent a crew to check it out with
their gauges.

Could this most likely a problem with the main breakers, in particular
the one under the electric meter, and they'll need replacement? I
think that if I do need to replace the breaker under the meter, I'll
have to hire an electrician to do that work. But before calling
anyone, I'm trying to see if there is a way I could trouble-shoot on
my own and maybe solve the problem before spending any money.

In the breaker box inside of the house, there is also a main switch
breaker (about 100 amps rated) as well.....should I replace this with
a new one and see if that hopefully helps things before calling out
the electrician, or that most likely isn't the culprit?

I'm no expert, but it sure sounds like a loose or corroded connection in
the outside cutoff box, like where the feed from the meter base ties
into the lugs that outside breaker is plugged into, or maybe water got
in the box and the lugs themselves are corroded. Cold night and thermal
cycling from a heavy load sounds like the right circumstances, and a
overnight cooldown making the problem 'go away' is consistent.

Seeing as how repair will likely take pulling the meter, I'd say a
licensed electrician is called for. Shouldn't be more than a few
hundred, even if he has to replace that outside shutoff completely. If
you can give him the brand and model of the box, and the size of the
breakers, he can have the parts on the truck just in case, to do it all
in one trip.

Given the symptoms you described, the inside stuff is probably fine.
Depending on how the outside box is constructed, you MAY be able to open
the inner cover to eyeball the innards, but be careful- the feed side
will be hot on both legs even with breakers in off position. IOW, look,
but don't touch. Corrosion or arcing may or may not have left visible
traces.

aem sends...

On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 06:45:24 GMT, aemeijers wrote:

tysteel wrote:
Hi everyone,

The other night the electricity suddenly blacked out on one side of
the house, after turning on a 1500 watt space heater. I then checked
out the main breaker box to see what had tripped. But after checking
the breakers, none of them looked like they had tripped.

So I then went outside to where the electric meter is at, and
underneath the meter is another box, which contains only one big
circuit breaker rated for 100 amps or so. As I lifted off the lid
of the box to check out the breaker, I noticed some kind of arcing,
or sparks, going on behind the panel. However, this breaker hadn't
tripped either, but when I placed my fingers on it, it did have a
somewhat warm or hot feel.

So while it hadn't visually tripped, I decided to switch the breaker
off, and then switch it back on. I then looked over at the house,
and noticed that all lights were back on in the side that had blacked
out. Switching this breaker on and off had a reset effect.

As I was walking back to the house, the electricity flickered out
again. I turned around and walked back to the electric meter and then
switched the breaker on and off again. When I switched it on, I could
hear a sort of sizzling noise. The electricity was back on.. But
the electricity only stayed on for about an hour or so and then the
ENTIRE house blacked out. It was like that for the rest of the
cold night.

The next morning, I went back outside to the main meter, and switched
the breaker off, and then on. It had a reset effect and the
electricity was back on throughout the entire house and thankfully it
has stayed that way the rest of the day. I made sure to avoid
plugging in the space heater that triggered all of this mess.

I was just wondering....does anyone have any idea as to what could be
going wrong? None of the circuit breakers look like they have tripped
after visually inspecting them. I know this isn't a problem on the
electric company's end because they sent a crew to check it out with
their gauges.

Could this most likely a problem with the main breakers, in particular
the one under the electric meter, and they'll need replacement? I
think that if I do need to replace the breaker under the meter, I'll
have to hire an electrician to do that work. But before calling
anyone, I'm trying to see if there is a way I could trouble-shoot on
my own and maybe solve the problem before spending any money.

In the breaker box inside of the house, there is also a main switch
breaker (about 100 amps rated) as well.....should I replace this with
a new one and see if that hopefully helps things before calling out
the electrician, or that most likely isn't the culprit?

I'm no expert, but it sure sounds like a loose or corroded connection in
the outside cutoff box, like where the feed from the meter base ties
into the lugs that outside breaker is plugged into, or maybe water got
in the box and the lugs themselves are corroded. Cold night and thermal
cycling from a heavy load sounds like the right circumstances, and a
overnight cooldown making the problem 'go away' is consistent.

Seeing as how repair will likely take pulling the meter, I'd say a
licensed electrician is called for. Shouldn't be more than a few
hundred, even if he has to replace that outside shutoff completely. If
you can give him the brand and model of the box, and the size of the
breakers, he can have the parts on the truck just in case, to do it all
in one trip.

Given the symptoms you described, the inside stuff is probably fine.
Depending on how the outside box is constructed, you MAY be able to open
the inner cover to eyeball the innards, but be careful- the feed side
will be hot on both legs even with breakers in off position. IOW, look,
but don't touch. Corrosion or arcing may or may not have left visible
traces.

aem sends...

If you heard a sizzling and felt heat on that outdoor breaker, either
the breaker is bad, or loose connections in that box. You could pop
off the cover and look for sparks (best after dark). Look at the
connections, etc. If you are not comfortable with electricity call a
pro., but at least look. You dont need to pull the meter to replace a
breaker. Actually it's a simple 10 minute job, assuming it's a snap
in breaker, but if you are afraid of it, dont do it. Yet, taking off
the panel and looking (with your hands behind your back), is pretty
basic and harmless.

Your problem is definitely a bad main breaker or bad connection at the main
breaker. Call the utility company and find out who's responsible for it and
have it fixed immediately. If it's left to sit and arc, the entire panel
will probably need replacing


"tysteel" wrote in message
...
Hi everyone,

The other night the electricity suddenly blacked out on one side of
the house, after turning on a 1500 watt space heater. I then checked
out the main breaker box to see what had tripped. But after checking
the breakers, none of them looked like they had tripped.

So I then went outside to where the electric meter is at, and
underneath the meter is another box, which contains only one big
circuit breaker rated for 100 amps or so. As I lifted off the lid
of the box to check out the breaker, I noticed some kind of arcing,
or sparks, going on behind the panel. However, this breaker hadn't
tripped either, but when I placed my fingers on it, it did have a
somewhat warm or hot feel.

So while it hadn't visually tripped, I decided to switch the breaker
off, and then switch it back on. I then looked over at the house,
and noticed that all lights were back on in the side that had blacked
out. Switching this breaker on and off had a reset effect.

As I was walking back to the house, the electricity flickered out
again. I turned around and walked back to the electric meter and then
switched the breaker on and off again. When I switched it on, I could
hear a sort of sizzling noise. The electricity was back on.. But
the electricity only stayed on for about an hour or so and then the
ENTIRE house blacked out. It was like that for the rest of the
cold night.

The next morning, I went back outside to the main meter, and switched
the breaker off, and then on. It had a reset effect and the
electricity was back on throughout the entire house and thankfully it
has stayed that way the rest of the day. I made sure to avoid
plugging in the space heater that triggered all of this mess.

I was just wondering....does anyone have any idea as to what could be
going wrong? None of the circuit breakers look like they have tripped
after visually inspecting them. I know this isn't a problem on the
electric company's end because they sent a crew to check it out with
their gauges.

Could this most likely a problem with the main breakers, in particular
the one under the electric meter, and they'll need replacement? I
think that if I do need to replace the breaker under the meter, I'll
have to hire an electrician to do that work. But before calling
anyone, I'm trying to see if there is a way I could trouble-shoot on
my own and maybe solve the problem before spending any money.

In the breaker box inside of the house, there is also a main switch
breaker (about 100 amps rated) as well.....should I replace this with
a new one and see if that hopefully helps things before calling out
the electrician, or that most likely isn't the culprit?

thanks,
tysteel

email:
tysteel5000 aol dot com

"tysteel" wrote

The other night the electricity suddenly blacked out on one side of
the house, after turning on a 1500 watt space heater. I then checked
out the main breaker box to see what had tripped. But after checking
the breakers, none of them looked like they had tripped.

First thought here, you overloaded the 100 amp service when it kicked in.

So while it hadn't visually tripped, I decided to switch the breaker
off, and then switch it back on. I then looked over at the house,
and noticed that all lights were back on in the side that had blacked
out. Switching this breaker on and off had a reset effect.

As I was walking back to the house, the electricity flickered out
again. I turned around and walked back to the electric meter and then

Looks to me like first thought still.


switched the breaker on and off again. When I switched it on, I could
hear a sort of sizzling noise. The electricity was back on.. But
the electricity only stayed on for about an hour or so and then the
ENTIRE house blacked out. It was like that for the rest of the
cold night.

And may have damaged the external box in one of the 'hits' possibly here?

think that if I do need to replace the breaker under the meter, I'll
have to hire an electrician to do that work. But before calling

Call your electrical company first. Sometimes the external boxes belong to
them and they fix them for you. If the box is bad and it wasnt caused by
trying to run over 100amps through it, they might fix for free if they 'own'
the box. Happened to me in a rental once that the exterior box went out and
was a free fix. It was not caused by any overload (yours may not be either
and just happenstance that it looked a bit like it to me).

On Nov 25, 7:16 am, "RBM" rbm2(remove wrote:
Your problem is definitely a bad main breaker or bad connection at the main
breaker. Call the utility company and find out who's responsible for it and
have it fixed immediately. If it's left to sit and arc, the entire panel
will probably need replacing

"tysteel" wrote in message

...



Hi everyone,

The other night the electricity suddenly blacked out on one side of
the house, after turning on a 1500 watt space heater. I then checked
out the main breaker box to see what had tripped. But after checking
the breakers, none of them looked like they had tripped.

So I then went outside to where the electric meter is at, and
underneath the meter is another box, which contains only one big
circuit breaker rated for 100 amps or so. As I lifted off the lid
of the box to check out the breaker, I noticed some kind of arcing,
or sparks, going on behind the panel. However, this breaker hadn't
tripped either, but when I placed my fingers on it, it did have a
somewhat warm or hot feel.

So while it hadn't visually tripped, I decided to switch the breaker
off, and then switch it back on. I then looked over at the house,
and noticed that all lights were back on in the side that had blacked
out. Switching this breaker on and off had a reset effect.

As I was walking back to the house, the electricity flickered out
again. I turned around and walked back to the electric meter and then
switched the breaker on and off again. When I switched it on, I could
hear a sort of sizzling noise. The electricity was back on.. But
the electricity only stayed on for about an hour or so and then the
ENTIRE house blacked out. It was like that for the rest of the
cold night.

The next morning, I went back outside to the main meter, and switched
the breaker off, and then on. It had a reset effect and the
electricity was back on throughout the entire house and thankfully it
has stayed that way the rest of the day. I made sure to avoid
plugging in the space heater that triggered all of this mess.

I was just wondering....does anyone have any idea as to what could be
going wrong? None of the circuit breakers look like they have tripped
after visually inspecting them. I know this isn't a problem on the
electric company's end because they sent a crew to check it out with
their gauges.

Could this most likely a problem with the main breakers, in particular
the one under the electric meter, and they'll need replacement? I
think that if I do need to replace the breaker under the meter, I'll
have to hire an electrician to do that work. But before calling
anyone, I'm trying to see if there is a way I could trouble-shoot on
my own and maybe solve the problem before spending any money.

In the breaker box inside of the house, there is also a main switch
breaker (about 100 amps rated) as well.....should I replace this with
a new one and see if that hopefully helps things before calling out
the electrician, or that most likely isn't the culprit?

thanks,
tysteel

email:
tysteel5000 aol dot com- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

If you call the utility co they will send someone out and may even fix
it for free if its a loose connection.

wrote:
On Nov 25, 10:35�am, ransley wrote:
On Nov 25, 7:16 am, "RBM" rbm2(remove wrote:





Your problem is definitely a bad main breaker or bad connection at the main
breaker. Call the utility company and find out who's responsible for it and
have it fixed immediately. If it's left to sit and arc, the entire panel
will probably need replacing
"tysteel" wrote in message
...
Hi everyone,
The other night the electricity suddenly blacked out on one side of
the house, after turning on a 1500 watt space heater. � I then checked
out the main breaker box to see what had tripped. �But after checking
the breakers, �none of them looked like they had tripped.
So I then went outside to where the electric meter is at, and
underneath the meter is �another box, which contains only one big
circuit breaker rated for 100 amps or so. � � As I lifted off the lid
of the box to check out the breaker, �I noticed some kind of arcing,
or sparks, going on behind the panel. � � However, this breaker hadn't
tripped either, but when I placed my fingers on it, it did have a
somewhat warm or hot feel.
So while it hadn't visually tripped, �I decided to switch the breaker
off, and then switch it back on. � I then looked over at the �house,
and noticed that all lights were back on in the side that had blacked
out. �Switching this breaker on and off had a reset effect.
As I was walking back to the house, �the electricity flickered out
again. �I turned around and walked back to the electric meter and then
switched the breaker on and off again. �When I switched it on, I could
hear a sort of sizzling noise. � �The electricity was back on.. �But
the electricity only stayed on for about an hour or so and then the
ENTIRE house blacked out. � � It was like that for the rest of the
cold night.
The next morning, I went back outside to the main meter, and switched
the breaker off, and then on. �It had a reset effect and the
electricity was back on throughout the entire house and thankfully it
has stayed that way the rest of the day. � I made sure to avoid
plugging in the space heater that triggered all of this mess.
I was just wondering....does anyone have any idea as to what could be
going wrong? �None of the circuit breakers look like they have tripped
after visually inspecting them. � � I know this isn't a problem on the
electric company's end because they sent a crew to check it out with
their gauges.
Could this most likely a problem with the main breakers, in particular
the one under the electric meter, �and they'll need replacement? � I
think that if I do need to replace the breaker under the meter, I'll
have to hire an electrician to do that work. �But before calling
anyone, �I'm trying to see if there is a way I could trouble-shoot on
my own and maybe solve the problem before spending any money.
In the breaker box inside of the house, there is also a main switch
breaker (about 100 amps rated) �as well.....should I replace this with
a new one and see if that hopefully helps things before calling out
the electrician, or that most likely isn't the culprit?
thanks,
tysteel
email:
tysteel5000 � aol dot com- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
If you call the utility co they will send someone out and may even fix
it for free if its a loose connection.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

who made these breakers? any chance its FPE?

Nah, it's just the ol' K&T...

--

On Nov 25, 10:35�am, ransley wrote:
On Nov 25, 7:16 am, "RBM" rbm2(remove wrote:





Your problem is definitely a bad main breaker or bad connection at the main
breaker. Call the utility company and find out who's responsible for it and
have it fixed immediately. If it's left to sit and arc, the entire panel
will probably need replacing

"tysteel" wrote in message

...

Hi everyone,

The other night the electricity suddenly blacked out on one side of
the house, after turning on a 1500 watt space heater. � I then checked
out the main breaker box to see what had tripped. �But after checking
the breakers, �none of them looked like they had tripped.

So I then went outside to where the electric meter is at, and
underneath the meter is �another box, which contains only one big
circuit breaker rated for 100 amps or so. � � As I lifted off the lid
of the box to check out the breaker, �I noticed some kind of arcing,
or sparks, going on behind the panel. � � However, this breaker hadn't
tripped either, but when I placed my fingers on it, it did have a
somewhat warm or hot feel.

So while it hadn't visually tripped, �I decided to switch the breaker
off, and then switch it back on. � I then looked over at the �house,
and noticed that all lights were back on in the side that had blacked
out. �Switching this breaker on and off had a reset effect.

As I was walking back to the house, �the electricity flickered out
again. �I turned around and walked back to the electric meter and then
switched the breaker on and off again. �When I switched it on, I could
hear a sort of sizzling noise. � �The electricity was back on.. �But
the electricity only stayed on for about an hour or so and then the
ENTIRE house blacked out. � � It was like that for the rest of the
cold night.

The next morning, I went back outside to the main meter, and switched
the breaker off, and then on. �It had a reset effect and the
electricity was back on throughout the entire house and thankfully it
has stayed that way the rest of the day. � I made sure to avoid
plugging in the space heater that triggered all of this mess.

I was just wondering....does anyone have any idea as to what could be
going wrong? �None of the circuit breakers look like they have tripped
after visually inspecting them. � � I know this isn't a problem on the
electric company's end because they sent a crew to check it out with
their gauges.

Could this most likely a problem with the main breakers, in particular
the one under the electric meter, �and they'll need replacement? � I
think that if I do need to replace the breaker under the meter, I'll
have to hire an electrician to do that work. �But before calling
anyone, �I'm trying to see if there is a way I could trouble-shoot on
my own and maybe solve the problem before spending any money.

In the breaker box inside of the house, there is also a main switch
breaker (about 100 amps rated) �as well.....should I replace this with
a new one and see if that hopefully helps things before calling out
the electrician, or that most likely isn't the culprit?

thanks,
tysteel

email:
tysteel5000 � aol dot com- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

If you call the utility co they will send someone out and may even fix
it for free if its a loose connection.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

who made these breakers? any chance its FPE?

On Nov 25, 7:35�am, ransley wrote:
On Nov 25, 7:16 am, "RBM" rbm2(remove wrote:





Your problem is definitely a bad main breaker or bad connection at the main
breaker. Call the utility company and find out who's responsible for it and
have it fixed immediately. If it's left to sit and arc, the entire panel
will probably need replacing

"tysteel" wrote in message

...

Hi everyone,

The other night the electricity suddenly blacked out on one side of
the house, after turning on a 1500 watt space heater. � I then checked
out the main breaker box to see what had tripped. �But after checking
the breakers, �none of them looked like they had tripped.

So I then went outside to where the electric meter is at, and
underneath the meter is �another box, which contains only one big
circuit breaker rated for 100 amps or so. � � As I lifted off the lid
of the box to check out the breaker, �I noticed some kind of arcing,
or sparks, going on behind the panel. � � However, this breaker hadn't
tripped either, but when I placed my fingers on it, it did have a
somewhat warm or hot feel.

So while it hadn't visually tripped, �I decided to switch the breaker
off, and then switch it back on. � I then looked over at the �house,
and noticed that all lights were back on in the side that had blacked
out. �Switching this breaker on and off had a reset effect.

As I was walking back to the house, �the electricity flickered out
again. �I turned around and walked back to the electric meter and then
switched the breaker on and off again. �When I switched it on, I could
hear a sort of sizzling noise. � �The electricity was back on.. �But
the electricity only stayed on for about an hour or so and then the
ENTIRE house blacked out. � � It was like that for the rest of the
cold night.

The next morning, I went back outside to the main meter, and switched
the breaker off, and then on. �It had a reset effect and the
electricity was back on throughout the entire house and thankfully it
has stayed that way the rest of the day. � I made sure to avoid
plugging in the space heater that triggered all of this mess.

I was just wondering....does anyone have any idea as to what could be
going wrong? �None of the circuit breakers look like they have tripped
after visually inspecting them. � � I know this isn't a problem on the
electric company's end because they sent a crew to check it out with
their gauges.

Could this most likely a problem with the main breakers, in particular
the one under the electric meter, �and they'll need replacement? � I
think that if I do need to replace the breaker under the meter, I'll
have to hire an electrician to do that work. �But before calling
anyone, �I'm trying to see if there is a way I could trouble-shoot on
my own and maybe solve the problem before spending any money.

In the breaker box inside of the house, there is also a main switch
breaker (about 100 amps rated) �as well.....should I replace this with
a new one and see if that hopefully helps things before calling out
the electrician, or that most likely isn't the culprit?

thanks,
tysteel

email:
tysteel5000 � aol dot com- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

If you call the utility co they will send someone out and may even fix
it for free if its a loose connection.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Thank you to everyone for the responses. When the electric company
people came over, they checked to see if power was adequately coming
in from their lines to my meter, but said that they wouldn't go inside
of the outside breaker box under the meter to actually fix
anything...that I would have to call an electrician instead. They
said they are simply "utility" guys and nothing more. But I don't
think it would've been too much trouble for them to simply look at the
inards under the panel, and if there was something loose, they could
very easily tighten it. After all, the electric company is going to
charge me $60 on the upcoming bill for just sending them out the other
day.

I'll go ahead and check out what's behind the panel for loose
connections. If there is a loose connection, I'll try to tighten it
as long as there is no risk of electrocution..

On Nov 25, 3:17�am, wrote:
On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 06:45:24 GMT, aemeijers wrote:
tysteel wrote:
Hi everyone,

The other night the electricity suddenly blacked out on one side of
the house, after turning on a 1500 watt space heater. � I then checked
out the main breaker box to see what had tripped. �But after checking
the breakers, �none of them looked like they had tripped.

�So I then went outside to where the electric meter is at, and
underneath the meter is �another box, which contains only one big
circuit breaker rated for 100 amps or so. � � As I lifted off the lid
of the box to check out the breaker, �I noticed some kind of arcing,
or sparks, going on behind the panel. � � However, this breaker hadn't
tripped either, but when I placed my fingers on it, it did have a
somewhat warm or hot feel.

So while it hadn't visually tripped, �I decided to switch the breaker
off, and then switch it back on. � I then looked over at the �house,
and noticed that all lights were back on in the side that had blacked
out. �Switching this breaker on and off had a reset effect.

As I was walking back to the house, �the electricity flickered out
again. �I turned around and walked back to the electric meter and then
switched the breaker on and off again. �When I switched it on, I could
hear a sort of sizzling noise. � �The electricity was back on.. �But
the electricity only stayed on for about an hour or so and then the
ENTIRE house blacked out. � � It was like that for the rest of the
cold night.

The next morning, I went back outside to the main meter, and switched
the breaker off, and then on. �It had a reset effect and the
electricity was back on throughout the entire house and thankfully it
has stayed that way the rest of the day. � I made sure to avoid
plugging in the space heater that triggered all of this mess.

I was just wondering....does anyone have any idea as to what could be
going wrong? �None of the circuit breakers look like they have tripped
after visually inspecting them. � � I know this isn't a problem on the
electric company's end because they sent a crew to check it out with
their gauges.

Could this most likely a problem with the main breakers, in particular
the one under the electric meter, �and they'll need replacement? � I
think that if I do need to replace the breaker under the meter, I'll
have to hire an electrician to do that work. �But before calling
anyone, �I'm trying to see if there is a way I could trouble-shoot on
my own and maybe solve the problem before spending any money.

In the breaker box inside of the house, there is also a main switch
breaker (about 100 amps rated) �as well.....should I replace this with
a new one and see if that hopefully helps things before calling out
the electrician, or that most likely isn't the culprit?

I'm no expert, but it sure sounds like a loose or corroded connection in
the outside cutoff box, like where the feed from the meter base ties
into the lugs that outside breaker is plugged into, or maybe water got
in the box and the lugs themselves are corroded. Cold night and thermal
cycling from a heavy load sounds like the right circumstances, and a
overnight cooldown making the problem 'go away' is consistent.

Seeing as how repair will likely take pulling the meter, I'd say a
licensed electrician is called for. Shouldn't be more than a few
hundred, even if he has to replace that outside shutoff completely. If
you can give him the brand and model of the box, and the size of the
breakers, he can have the parts on the truck just in case, to do it all
in one trip.

Given the symptoms you described, the inside stuff is probably fine.
Depending on how the outside box is constructed, you MAY be able to open
the inner cover to eyeball the innards, but be careful- the feed side
will be hot on both legs even with breakers in off position. IOW, look,
but don't touch. Corrosion or arcing may or may not have left visible
traces.

aem sends...

If you heard a sizzling and felt heat on that outdoor breaker, either
the breaker is bad, or loose connections in that box. �You could pop
off the cover and look for sparks (best after dark). �Look at the
connections, etc. �If you are not comfortable with electricity call a
pro., but at least look. �You dont need to pull the meter to replace a
breaker. �Actually it's a simple 10 minute job, assuming it's a snap
in breaker, but if you are afraid of it, dont do it. �Yet, taking off
the panel and looking (with your hands behind your back), is pretty
basic and harmless.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I suppose I could fix it, but I'm not sure how safe it would be to do
so. The breaker is snap in type (it's a bryant circuit breaker) but
there are two big lines that you are to insert into the bottom of it,
and then tighten down with a screw driver.

I suppose that it may be pretty dangerous to mess with; it would so
much easier if all the power were cut to the meter. I'm sure that
both lines that fit into the breaker are live.

The utility company can do more damage if an unqualified person touches
this. You NEED to get a qualified electrician to verify that the buss in the
panel hasn't been annealed from overheating. Even if this was caused by a
loose connection, damage could have occurred beneath the circuit breaker
where you won't be able to make a visual inspection. Under no circumstances
should YOU touch this without killing the power first.




"tysteel" wrote in message
...
On Nov 25, 7:35?am, ransley wrote:
On Nov 25, 7:16 am, "RBM" rbm2(remove wrote:





Your problem is definitely a bad main breaker or bad connection at the
main
breaker. Call the utility company and find out who's responsible for it
and
have it fixed immediately. If it's left to sit and arc, the entire panel
will probably need replacing

"tysteel" wrote in message

...

Hi everyone,

The other night the electricity suddenly blacked out on one side of
the house, after turning on a 1500 watt space heater. ? I then checked
out the main breaker box to see what had tripped. ?But after checking
the breakers, ?none of them looked like they had tripped.

So I then went outside to where the electric meter is at, and
underneath the meter is ?another box, which contains only one big
circuit breaker rated for 100 amps or so. ? ? As I lifted off the lid
of the box to check out the breaker, ?I noticed some kind of arcing,
or sparks, going on behind the panel. ? ? However, this breaker hadn't
tripped either, but when I placed my fingers on it, it did have a
somewhat warm or hot feel.

So while it hadn't visually tripped, ?I decided to switch the breaker
off, and then switch it back on. ? I then looked over at the ?house,
and noticed that all lights were back on in the side that had blacked
out. ?Switching this breaker on and off had a reset effect.

As I was walking back to the house, ?the electricity flickered out
again. ?I turned around and walked back to the electric meter and then
switched the breaker on and off again. ?When I switched it on, I could
hear a sort of sizzling noise. ? ?The electricity was back on.. ?But
the electricity only stayed on for about an hour or so and then the
ENTIRE house blacked out. ? ? It was like that for the rest of the
cold night.

The next morning, I went back outside to the main meter, and switched
the breaker off, and then on. ?It had a reset effect and the
electricity was back on throughout the entire house and thankfully it
has stayed that way the rest of the day. ? I made sure to avoid
plugging in the space heater that triggered all of this mess.

I was just wondering....does anyone have any idea as to what could be
going wrong? ?None of the circuit breakers look like they have tripped
after visually inspecting them. ? ? I know this isn't a problem on the
electric company's end because they sent a crew to check it out with
their gauges.

Could this most likely a problem with the main breakers, in particular
the one under the electric meter, ?and they'll need replacement? ? I
think that if I do need to replace the breaker under the meter, I'll
have to hire an electrician to do that work. ?But before calling
anyone, ?I'm trying to see if there is a way I could trouble-shoot on
my own and maybe solve the problem before spending any money.

In the breaker box inside of the house, there is also a main switch
breaker (about 100 amps rated) ?as well.....should I replace this with
a new one and see if that hopefully helps things before calling out
the electrician, or that most likely isn't the culprit?

thanks,
tysteel

email:
tysteel5000 ? aol dot com- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

If you call the utility co they will send someone out and may even fix
it for free if its a loose connection.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Thank you to everyone for the responses. When the electric company
people came over, they checked to see if power was adequately coming
in from their lines to my meter, but said that they wouldn't go inside
of the outside breaker box under the meter to actually fix
anything...that I would have to call an electrician instead. They
said they are simply "utility" guys and nothing more. But I don't
think it would've been too much trouble for them to simply look at the
inards under the panel, and if there was something loose, they could
very easily tighten it. After all, the electric company is going to
charge me $60 on the upcoming bill for just sending them out the other
day.

I'll go ahead and check out what's behind the panel for loose
connections. If there is a loose connection, I'll try to tighten it
as long as there is no risk of electrocution..

On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 13:59:46 -0500, Bubba
wrote:

On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 08:17:21 -0800 (PST), tysteel
wrote:

On Nov 25, 3:17?am, wrote:
On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 06:45:24 GMT, aemeijers wrote:
tysteel wrote:

Ty,
You know, some things are better left to professionals. After reading
your posts I am 100% positive you have no business playing with
electricity. You've already wasted $60 having the electric co. come
out and show you what they can do. If you get hurt or die, what good
will you be to your family? Electricity is simple to work with (even
live), IF, I say "IF" you know what you are doing. That breaker could
be changed in minutes by someone knowing what they are doing. They
also need to inspect it to see if you have any other problems.
Break open your piggy bank and have it fixed safely and correctly the
first time. Save your skills for something you can actually tackle.
Bubba

That drove the nail home :-)

By my count you switched the breaker back on at least three times.
It's there, and it tripped, for a reason.

And you saw arcing. But still you switched the breaker back on.

At some point doesn't it make sense to call a professional? Turning a
tripped breaker back on repeatedly is somewhat defeating the purpose
of a circuit breaker, which is to prevent whatever is causing it to
trip from continuing to cause damage. Circuit breakers are wonderful
but they're not perfect.

Since there may now be more than one problem, I think it makes sense
to call someone who knows what he's doing.

On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 15:29:33 -0500, "Joseph Meehan"
wrote:

You certainly have some sort of problem there. I suspect it is the
breakers that are outside. Why are there breakers outside? That is not the
usual procedure, although I have seen it. Have your electric company come
out and take a look unless you know for sure about that outside breaker and
why it is there and that it is really your responsibility .

"tysteel" wrote in message
...
Hi everyone,

The other night the electricity suddenly blacked out on one side of
the house, after turning on a 1500 watt space heater.

I have a 200 Amp Service Disconnect breaker outside at the meter. That
is my only "Customer Access". The full breaker panel for the house is
in the adjacent inside garage wall.

Bubba is correct

Thank you all for the responses, and it looks like I'll have to call a
professional on this one.

I guess a variety of things could be causing the problem. For one,
there is an electric water heater wired up here, and it's connected to
a 20 amp circuit breaker, along with the size of wiring that fits, yet
the water heater has a voltage of 4500-5500 watts....... seems like it
should be connected to a 30 amp circuit breaker with a thicker wiring
connection. I do suspect this could be one of the things causing the
problem and is causing overloading. The original water heater
certainly didn't take in that much power, and wasn't as large, but the
replacement seems excessive.


I contacted the landlord who owns the place, and I've told him about
this repeatedly, so I may just get it fixed myself, and take it out of
the rent.

I was thinking about purchasing another water heater as that would
probably be a little cheaper than having the wiring replaced as I live
in a rural area ..everything is charged at an arm and a leg when you
live in the country.... but was wondering what would work with the
wiring and breaker that's already there. The other day I was
checking out Lowe's and came across a water heater ($219...20 gallon))
that uses two heating elements rated at about 3500 watts.....from what
I understand, that should work with a 20 amp breaker and the size of
wiring there. If I'm wrong about that, I'm sure I'll stand
corrected.


I was thinking to try replacing that first as I know that's a definite
problem, and then see if this helps prevent any more overloads to the
main box outside. I think that when the space heater was used, it
was too much for the circuits to bear, and that's why things started
to black out. If it doesn't help, I'll call the electrician.

Your water heater wiring, while incorrect, has nothing to do with the main
disconnect problem. You are correct that a 4500 watt heater requires a 30
amp circuit and #10 wiring and that a 3500 watt unit would work fine with
the existing wiring and breaker



"tysteel" wrote in message
...
Thank you all for the responses, and it looks like I'll have to call a
professional on this one.

I guess a variety of things could be causing the problem. For one,
there is an electric water heater wired up here, and it's connected to
a 20 amp circuit breaker, along with the size of wiring that fits, yet
the water heater has a voltage of 4500-5500 watts....... seems like it
should be connected to a 30 amp circuit breaker with a thicker wiring
connection. I do suspect this could be one of the things causing the
problem and is causing overloading. The original water heater
certainly didn't take in that much power, and wasn't as large, but the
replacement seems excessive.


I contacted the landlord who owns the place, and I've told him about
this repeatedly, so I may just get it fixed myself, and take it out of
the rent.

I was thinking about purchasing another water heater as that would
probably be a little cheaper than having the wiring replaced as I live
in a rural area ..everything is charged at an arm and a leg when you
live in the country.... but was wondering what would work with the
wiring and breaker that's already there. The other day I was
checking out Lowe's and came across a water heater ($219...20 gallon))
that uses two heating elements rated at about 3500 watts.....from what
I understand, that should work with a 20 amp breaker and the size of
wiring there. If I'm wrong about that, I'm sure I'll stand
corrected.


I was thinking to try replacing that first as I know that's a definite
problem, and then see if this helps prevent any more overloads to the
main box outside. I think that when the space heater was used, it
was too much for the circuits to bear, and that's why things started
to black out. If it doesn't help, I'll call the electrician.

On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 13:29:17 -0800 (PST), tysteel
wrote:

I contacted the landlord who owns the place, and I've told him about
this repeatedly, so I may just get it fixed myself, and take it out of
the rent.

Many jurisdictions prohibit this; make sure yours allows it, else you
will have serious legal problems. Obey your lease, and sue the
landlord in small claims court to recover these costs.

On Nov 25, 1:41 pm, "RBM" rbm2(remove wrote:
Your water heater wiring, while incorrect, has nothing to do with the main
disconnect problem. You are correct that a 4500 watt heater requires a 30
amp circuit and #10 wiring and that a 3500 watt unit would work fine with
the existing wiring and breaker



Thanks for the response. I went back outside and checked the 100
rated amp circuit breaker under the meter, removed the paneling, and
when I switched the breaker off and then on, I noticed that the arcing
(or sparks) is coming from the railing that the circuit breaker plugs
into,....

From your description, that's what it sounded like to me. Once that
"railing", which is called buss, is annealed from overheating, it looses
it's conductive properties, and needs to be replaced. This would probably
mean replacing the entire panel. Have a qualified electrician inspect it, if
the metal is still in decent shape, it can possibly be cleaned, although the
breaker will certainly have to be replaced.



"tysteel" wrote in message
...
On Nov 25, 1:41 pm, "RBM" rbm2(remove wrote:
Your water heater wiring, while incorrect, has nothing to do with the
main
disconnect problem. You are correct that a 4500 watt heater requires a 30
amp circuit and #10 wiring and that a 3500 watt unit would work fine with
the existing wiring and breaker



Thanks for the response. I went back outside and checked the 100
rated amp circuit breaker under the meter, removed the paneling, and
when I switched the breaker off and then on, I noticed that the arcing
(or sparks) is coming from the railing that the circuit breaker plugs
into,....

KLS wrote:
On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 13:29:17 -0800 (PST), tysteel
wrote:

I contacted the landlord who owns the place, and I've told him about
this repeatedly, so I may just get it fixed myself, and take it out
of the rent.

Many jurisdictions prohibit this; make sure yours allows it, else you
will have serious legal problems. Obey your lease, and sue the
landlord in small claims court to recover these costs.

It's okay if the landlord agrees. And he'd be foolish not to.

In article , "RBM" rbm2(remove wrote:
Your water heater wiring, while incorrect, has nothing to do with the main
disconnect problem. You are correct that a 4500 watt heater requires a 30
amp circuit and #10 wiring and that a 3500 watt unit would work fine with
the existing wiring and breaker

4500W / 240V = 18.75A

Should be OK on a 20A circuit, no? The 80% rule applies only to continuous
loads, defined as "maximum current expected to continue for three hours or
more." Shouldn't an electric water heater be able to reach temp in much less
than three hours?

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 17:42:01 -0600, "HeyBub" wrote:

KLS wrote:
On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 13:29:17 -0800 (PST), tysteel
wrote:

I contacted the landlord who owns the place, and I've told him about
this repeatedly, so I may just get it fixed myself, and take it out
of the rent.

Many jurisdictions prohibit this; make sure yours allows it, else you
will have serious legal problems. Obey your lease, and sue the
landlord in small claims court to recover these costs.

It's okay if the landlord agrees. And he'd be foolish not to.

Agreed, but the tenant needs to get this agreement in writing, else
he's foolish not to.

Doug Miller wrote:

In article , "RBM" rbm2(remove wrote:

Your water heater wiring, while incorrect, has nothing to do with the main
disconnect problem. You are correct that a 4500 watt heater requires a 30
amp circuit and #10 wiring and that a 3500 watt unit would work fine with
the existing wiring and breaker


4500W / 240V = 18.75A

Should be OK on a 20A circuit, no? The 80% rule applies only to continuous
loads, defined as "maximum current expected to continue for three hours or
more." Shouldn't an electric water heater be able to reach temp in much less
than three hours?


Not if you leave the water running.

Water heaters are treated separately. Branch circuits must be 125% of the
nameplate rating. Nec 422.13


"Doug Miller" wrote in message
et...
In article , "RBM" rbm2(remove
wrote:
Your water heater wiring, while incorrect, has nothing to do with the main
disconnect problem. You are correct that a 4500 watt heater requires a 30
amp circuit and #10 wiring and that a 3500 watt unit would work fine with
the existing wiring and breaker

4500W / 240V = 18.75A

Should be OK on a 20A circuit, no? The 80% rule applies only to continuous
loads, defined as "maximum current expected to continue for three hours or
more." Shouldn't an electric water heater be able to reach temp in much
less
than three hours?

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

tysteel wrote:
On Nov 25, 1:41 pm, "RBM" rbm2(remove wrote:
Your water heater wiring, while incorrect, has nothing to do with the main
disconnect problem. You are correct that a 4500 watt heater requires a 30
amp circuit and #10 wiring and that a 3500 watt unit would work fine with
the existing wiring and breaker



Thanks for the response. I went back outside and checked the 100
rated amp circuit breaker under the meter, removed the paneling, and
when I switched the breaker off and then on, I noticed that the arcing
(or sparks) is coming from the railing that the circuit breaker plugs
into,....

Sounds like a bad connection between the bus and the breaker. You'll
likely need a new breaker, and quite possibly a new panel as well if the
bus is too badly burnt up. I wouldn't wait on it, that sort of thing is
asking for a fire. The power company will likely have to come out and
pull the meter for that repair..

--
Robert Hancock Saskatoon, SK, Canada
To email, remove "nospam" from
Home Page: http://www.roberthancock.com/