Dear Experts,


I have a townhouse in the Boston area with a flat roof.
From top, there is the roof, the joists and insulation,
and then the drywall. ie. It is not a truss system.
There is no air space. Probably 2 x 10 joists.
They span 14 feet from one unit to the next.


The past few months, roofers came came to upgrade the roof,
and lay down a flat piece of new rubber on it. I'm told
that this is the best.

One day, after they partially finished it, the rain
came, and a leak started dripping through my light
fixture at the top of the stairs. Apparently, one of
the seams between the old and new roof was not fixed right.

I put a 3 gallon buckets under, and took out the light
fixture so that the water would flow freely. Over the weekend,
the buckets filled up (about 3/4 of the way) three times,
and I emptied them.

I know that the insulation is acting as a sponge.
The water gets in, and it slowly leaks out.

Since there is no air space, it is very difficult for the
insulation to dry. It's not summer anymore, so that heat
advantage is also gone. (Fiberglass insulation always
needs a slight air space to breath, otherwise it sweats.)

The insulation also gets compressed and loses its insulative value.

And, there is the possibility of mold and mildew!!


See the pictures I took when it was first damaged:
http://geocities.com/condor_222/ceiling/


Now starts the big debate as to how much to do, and who will
pay. There is me, the insurance comany, the roofers,
and the townhouse association manager (THAM).

The roofers first idea was that it was just
fine. Not much damage, so just paint over it!!!

I said, rip it all down. Let it dry out. Put bleach to
kill any mildew or mold. I'm sure that the area that we
see actually damaged, is not the entire area to be damaged.

So far, the roofers have said that they would fix it all.
They ripped out a small hole, about 2 feet by one joist
width and pulled out the insulation. This was not as big
as the THAM said to do. The roofer said that they would come
back and enlarge it. Apparently, they are using a
subcontractor to do the drywall.

I called my insurance agent. They expect me to file a claim
and pay the deductible. Then, they would have an adjustor
come out and give me an estimate. There is always
the talk that if you have too many claims, they won't
insure you, or gaily raise your rates for making claims.

I called Service Master and they came out to take a look.
They say that they will:
- take down the drywall and insulation
- dry it out.
- put anti-microbial agents on the wood
- but not put the drywall and insulation back in, only do
the "destruction" part. I would then have to find a
drywaller and insulator to finish it.

Service Master says that they used their probe/sensor and found
that the insulation was still wet. And, that the entire
area above the stairs needs to be ripped out. Much
larger than the area that looks damaged.


When I told this to the THAM, he says that Service Master
gets lots of complaints, for doing too much, and
charging for all the unneeded work. He says he will
bring out another company they used, and we will get yet
another opinion.

The THAM and the roofing company don't want the insurance
companies involved, suing the roofer's insurance company,
and raising their rates.

The THAM says that he will get the roofers to do what the
second opinion will say to do.

All this occurs as I have just taken a job out of state,
and I'm getting all my information over the phone, and
can't see the damage since I left.

So, I'd like to know just how bad this is. Do I need to
rip out the whole ceiling? Or, is this overkill? What
are people's experience? Has anyone had mildew issues
from something like this?

I'm hoping to get some opinions from people with
experience either having had these kinds of repairs
done. Or from someone who does professionally,
who can give me some unbiased advice.

Thanks a lot!!!

On Nov 16, 2:53 am, wrote:
Dear Experts,

I have a townhouse in the Boston area with a flat roof.
From top, there is the roof, the joists and insulation,
and then the drywall. ie. It is not a truss system.
There is no air space. Probably 2 x 10 joists.
They span 14 feet from one unit to the next.

The past few months, roofers came came to upgrade the roof,
and lay down a flat piece of new rubber on it. I'm told
that this is the best.

One day, after they partially finished it, the rain
came, and a leak started dripping through my light
fixture at the top of the stairs. Apparently, one of
the seams between the old and new roof was not fixed right.

I put a 3 gallon buckets under, and took out the light
fixture so that the water would flow freely. Over the weekend,
the buckets filled up (about 3/4 of the way) three times,
and I emptied them.

I know that the insulation is acting as a sponge.
The water gets in, and it slowly leaks out.

Since there is no air space, it is very difficult for the
insulation to dry. It's not summer anymore, so that heat
advantage is also gone. (Fiberglass insulation always
needs a slight air space to breath, otherwise it sweats.)

The insulation also gets compressed and loses its insulative value.

And, there is the possibility of mold and mildew!!

See the pictures I took when it was first damaged:http://geocities.com/condor_222/ceiling/

Now starts the big debate as to how much to do, and who will
pay. There is me, the insurance comany, the roofers,
and the townhouse association manager (THAM).

The roofers first idea was that it was just
fine. Not much damage, so just paint over it!!!

I said, rip it all down. Let it dry out. Put bleach to
kill any mildew or mold. I'm sure that the area that we
see actually damaged, is not the entire area to be damaged.

So far, the roofers have said that they would fix it all.
They ripped out a small hole, about 2 feet by one joist
width and pulled out the insulation. This was not as big
as the THAM said to do. The roofer said that they would come
back and enlarge it. Apparently, they are using a
subcontractor to do the drywall.

I called my insurance agent. They expect me to file a claim
and pay the deductible. Then, they would have an adjustor
come out and give me an estimate. There is always
the talk that if you have too many claims, they won't
insure you, or gaily raise your rates for making claims.

I called Service Master and they came out to take a look.
They say that they will:
- take down the drywall and insulation
- dry it out.
- put anti-microbial agents on the wood
- but not put the drywall and insulation back in, only do
the "destruction" part. I would then have to find a
drywaller and insulator to finish it.

Service Master says that they used their probe/sensor and found
that the insulation was still wet. And, that the entire
area above the stairs needs to be ripped out. Much
larger than the area that looks damaged.

When I told this to the THAM, he says that Service Master
gets lots of complaints, for doing too much, and
charging for all the unneeded work. He says he will
bring out another company they used, and we will get yet
another opinion.

The THAM and the roofing company don't want the insurance
companies involved, suing the roofer's insurance company,
and raising their rates.

The THAM says that he will get the roofers to do what the
second opinion will say to do.

All this occurs as I have just taken a job out of state,
and I'm getting all my information over the phone, and
can't see the damage since I left.

So, I'd like to know just how bad this is. Do I need to
rip out the whole ceiling? Or, is this overkill? What
are people's experience? Has anyone had mildew issues
from something like this?

I'm hoping to get some opinions from people with
experience either having had these kinds of repairs
done. Or from someone who does professionally,
who can give me some unbiased advice.

Thanks a lot!!!


This really isn't that complicated. You need a contractor capable of
doing drywall work, as that is most of what is involved. He has to
start by taking out the section of drywall in the main area
surrounding the leak. That looks to be about one sheet worth of
material. Exactly how much and what shape will depend to some extent
on where the existing drywall joints are.

With it open, you will be able to determine how wet it is, where the
water ends, etc. That will determine if you need to remove more
drywall, insulation, etc. Then it's just a matter of letting it dry
out, then putting insulation in, closing it up, etc. Any competent
contractor that does drywall can do this whole job.

As to who is responsible, I would say the roofer is likely on the hook
to pay for this. You should check your condo documents and see what
they say about where responsibility begins and ends for this as
well. The condo assoc is usually responsible for the roof and since
this clearly is a result of work done on it and involves beyond the
drywall surface of your unit, I would think it is their area of
responsibility to repair and deal with. If you have to, then I would
put in a claim to your homeowner's insurance as a last resort.

The good news is that this doesn't look like a big disaster, but I
would get that drywall opened up ASAP to eliminate the possibility of
mold.

On Fri, 16 Nov 2007 04:28:39 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Nov 16, 2:53 am, wrote:
Dear Experts,

I have a townhouse in the Boston area with a flat roof.
From top, there is the roof, the joists and insulation,
and then the drywall. ie. It is not a truss system.
There is no air space. Probably 2 x 10 joists.
They span 14 feet from one unit to the next.

The past few months, roofers came came to upgrade the roof,
and lay down a flat piece of new rubber on it. I'm told
that this is the best.

One day, after they partially finished it, the rain
came, and a leak started dripping through my light
fixture at the top of the stairs. Apparently, one of
the seams between the old and new roof was not fixed right.

I put a 3 gallon buckets under, and took out the light
fixture so that the water would flow freely. Over the weekend,
the buckets filled up (about 3/4 of the way) three times,
and I emptied them.

I know that the insulation is acting as a sponge.
The water gets in, and it slowly leaks out.

Since there is no air space, it is very difficult for the
insulation to dry. It's not summer anymore, so that heat
advantage is also gone. (Fiberglass insulation always
needs a slight air space to breath, otherwise it sweats.)

The insulation also gets compressed and loses its insulative value.

And, there is the possibility of mold and mildew!!

See the pictures I took when it was first damaged:http://geocities.com/condor_222/ceiling/

Now starts the big debate as to how much to do, and who will
pay. There is me, the insurance comany, the roofers,
and the townhouse association manager (THAM).

The roofers first idea was that it was just
fine. Not much damage, so just paint over it!!!

I said, rip it all down. Let it dry out. Put bleach to
kill any mildew or mold. I'm sure that the area that we
see actually damaged, is not the entire area to be damaged.

So far, the roofers have said that they would fix it all.
They ripped out a small hole, about 2 feet by one joist
width and pulled out the insulation. This was not as big
as the THAM said to do. The roofer said that they would come
back and enlarge it. Apparently, they are using a
subcontractor to do the drywall.

I called my insurance agent. They expect me to file a claim
and pay the deductible. Then, they would have an adjustor
come out and give me an estimate. There is always
the talk that if you have too many claims, they won't
insure you, or gaily raise your rates for making claims.

I called Service Master and they came out to take a look.
They say that they will:
- take down the drywall and insulation
- dry it out.
- put anti-microbial agents on the wood
- but not put the drywall and insulation back in, only do
the "destruction" part. I would then have to find a
drywaller and insulator to finish it.

Service Master says that they used their probe/sensor and found
that the insulation was still wet. And, that the entire
area above the stairs needs to be ripped out. Much
larger than the area that looks damaged.

When I told this to the THAM, he says that Service Master
gets lots of complaints, for doing too much, and
charging for all the unneeded work. He says he will
bring out another company they used, and we will get yet
another opinion.

The THAM and the roofing company don't want the insurance
companies involved, suing the roofer's insurance company,
and raising their rates.

The THAM says that he will get the roofers to do what the
second opinion will say to do.

All this occurs as I have just taken a job out of state,
and I'm getting all my information over the phone, and
can't see the damage since I left.

So, I'd like to know just how bad this is. Do I need to
rip out the whole ceiling? Or, is this overkill? What
are people's experience? Has anyone had mildew issues
from something like this?

I'm hoping to get some opinions from people with
experience either having had these kinds of repairs
done. Or from someone who does professionally,
who can give me some unbiased advice.

Thanks a lot!!!


This really isn't that complicated. You need a contractor capable of
doing drywall work, as that is most of what is involved. He has to
start by taking out the section of drywall in the main area
surrounding the leak. That looks to be about one sheet worth of
material. Exactly how much and what shape will depend to some extent
on where the existing drywall joints are.

With it open, you will be able to determine how wet it is, where the
water ends, etc. That will determine if you need to remove more
drywall, insulation, etc. Then it's just a matter of letting it dry
out, then putting insulation in, closing it up, etc. Any competent
contractor that does drywall can do this whole job.

As to who is responsible, I would say the roofer is likely on the hook
to pay for this. You should check your condo documents and see what
they say about where responsibility begins and ends for this as
well. The condo assoc is usually responsible for the roof and since
this clearly is a result of work done on it and involves beyond the
drywall surface of your unit, I would think it is their area of
responsibility to repair and deal with. If you have to, then I would
put in a claim to your homeowner's insurance as a last resort.

The good news is that this doesn't look like a big disaster, but I
would get that drywall opened up ASAP to eliminate the possibility of
mold.

There are all sorts of ways to deal with this, some complicated, some
not. In summary, you have 2 jobs to do.
1. Dry the insulation
2. Fix the cosmetics of the ceiling.

If you dont want to spend a fortune, just take out the insulation and
put it on a heat vent to dry, or replace it. Leave it out long enough
for the sheet rock to dry. Then paint the sheet rock with KILZ to
eliminate the stains. If the sheetrock is loose or deformedm you;ll
need to replace some or all of it. Otherwise just use the KILZ, and
repaint.

I am not seeing what you have, but you seem to be making a mountain
out of a mole hill.

If there is some mold, you are not the first person in history to get
some wet sheetrock. A little bleach water on both the top and bottom
of the sheetrock, let it dry, and use the KILZ on BOTH sides. Replace
the insulation last, when everything is dry.

Of course, make sure the roof is repaired before any of this....

On Nov 17, 2:48 am, wrote:
Thx alvinamo
http://repairceiling.com/