I installed a GFCI receptacle outside (in a suitable waterproof box).
I'm reasonably sure the installation is water tight. Furthermore, I
have experienced tripping problems when it hasn't rained for a long
time. I'm wondering if these tripping problems are "normal" or if
they indicate the existence of a wiring fault of some kind.

I noticed that when I used my hand drill, I would frequently find that
when I went to start the drill, the GFCI had tripped (presumably right
when I stopped drilling last). I would reset it and then I could
proceed to drill. Is this normal behavior for a GFCI, perhaps one
that is very sensitive? I've used a drill in a GFCI in the bathroom
without having this problem.

The second problem device is a charcoal grill starter. This thing is
a resistive heating element on a handle. We were trying to start the
charcoal and it kept tripping so we ended up having to return to the
old method: extension cord to an indoor (non-GFCI protected)
receptacle. The heating element might have been in contact with the
metal grill body. Could current have been sneaking to ground from the
heating element through the body of the grill (which was resting on a
concrete pad)? This would presumably constitute a ground fault and
would explain why the GFCI was tripping.

So is my GFCI working normally?

On 23 Oct, 11:51, "
wrote:
I installed a GFCI receptacle outside (in a suitable waterproof box).
I'm reasonably sure the installation is water tight. Furthermore, I
have experienced tripping problems when it hasn't rained for a long
time. I'm wondering if these tripping problems are "normal" or if
they indicate the existence of a wiring fault of some kind.

I noticed that when I used my hand drill, I would frequently find that
when I went to start the drill, the GFCI had tripped (presumably right
when I stopped drilling last). I would reset it and then I could
proceed to drill. Is this normal behavior for a GFCI, perhaps one
that is very sensitive? I've used a drill in a GFCI in the bathroom
without having this problem.

The second problem device is a charcoal grill starter. This thing is
a resistive heating element on a handle. We were trying to start the
charcoal and it kept tripping so we ended up having to return to the
old method: extension cord to an indoor (non-GFCI protected)
receptacle. The heating element might have been in contact with the
metal grill body. Could current have been sneaking to ground from the
heating element through the body of the grill (which was resting on a
concrete pad)? This would presumably constitute a ground fault and
would explain why the GFCI was tripping.

So is my GFCI working normally?

It *could* be a faulty GFCI.

Why not run that extension cord to the GFCI in the bathroom and test
both devices on that one?

On Oct 23, 10:51 am, "
wrote:
I installed a GFCI receptacle outside (in a suitable waterproof box).
I'm reasonably sure the installation is water tight. Furthermore, I
have experienced tripping problems when it hasn't rained for a long
time. I'm wondering if these tripping problems are "normal" or if
they indicate the existence of a wiring fault of some kind.

I noticed that when I used my hand drill, I would frequently find that
when I went to start the drill, the GFCI had tripped (presumably right
when I stopped drilling last). I would reset it and then I could
proceed to drill. Is this normal behavior for a GFCI, perhaps one
that is very sensitive? I've used a drill in a GFCI in the bathroom
without having this problem.

The second problem device is a charcoal grill starter. This thing is
a resistive heating element on a handle. We were trying to start the
charcoal and it kept tripping so we ended up having to return to the
old method: extension cord to an indoor (non-GFCI protected)
receptacle. The heating element might have been in contact with the
metal grill body. Could current have been sneaking to ground from the
heating element through the body of the grill (which was resting on a
concrete pad)? This would presumably constitute a ground fault and
would explain why the GFCI was tripping.

So is my GFCI working normally?

I could never get my grill starter to get along with a GFI. I even
changed our outdoor outlet to a regular receptacle to be able to use
the grill starter. I don't know why, but they never seem to work well
together.

Jk

On 23 Oct, 12:03, Big_Jake wrote:
On Oct 23, 10:51 am, "
wrote:





I installed a GFCI receptacle outside (in a suitable waterproof box).
I'm reasonably sure the installation is water tight. Furthermore, I
have experienced tripping problems when it hasn't rained for a long
time. I'm wondering if these tripping problems are "normal" or if
they indicate the existence of a wiring fault of some kind.

I noticed that when I used my hand drill, I would frequently find that
when I went to start the drill, the GFCI had tripped (presumably right
when I stopped drilling last). I would reset it and then I could
proceed to drill. Is this normal behavior for a GFCI, perhaps one
that is very sensitive? I've used a drill in a GFCI in the bathroom
without having this problem.

The second problem device is a charcoal grill starter. This thing is
a resistive heating element on a handle. We were trying to start the
charcoal and it kept tripping so we ended up having to return to the
old method: extension cord to an indoor (non-GFCI protected)
receptacle. The heating element might have been in contact with the
metal grill body. Could current have been sneaking to ground from the
heating element through the body of the grill (which was resting on a
concrete pad)? This would presumably constitute a ground fault and
would explain why the GFCI was tripping.

So is my GFCI working normally?

I could never get my grill starter to get along with a GFI. I even
changed our outdoor outlet to a regular receptacle to be able to use
the grill starter. I don't know why, but they never seem to work well
together.

Jk- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

-- I even changed our outdoor outlet to a regular receptacle to be
able to use the grill starter.

Ahh yes... the old "sacrifice safety for the sake of convenience"
trick.

On 23 Oct, 11:51, "
wrote:
I installed a GFCI receptacle outside (in a suitable waterproof box).
I'm reasonably sure the installation is water tight. Furthermore, I
have experienced tripping problems when it hasn't rained for a long
time. I'm wondering if these tripping problems are "normal" or if
they indicate the existence of a wiring fault of some kind.

I noticed that when I used my hand drill, I would frequently find that
when I went to start the drill, the GFCI had tripped (presumably right
when I stopped drilling last). I would reset it and then I could
proceed to drill. Is this normal behavior for a GFCI, perhaps one
that is very sensitive? I've used a drill in a GFCI in the bathroom
without having this problem.

The second problem device is a charcoal grill starter. This thing is
a resistive heating element on a handle. We were trying to start the
charcoal and it kept tripping so we ended up having to return to the
old method: extension cord to an indoor (non-GFCI protected)
receptacle. The heating element might have been in contact with the
metal grill body. Could current have been sneaking to ground from the
heating element through the body of the grill (which was resting on a
concrete pad)? This would presumably constitute a ground fault and
would explain why the GFCI was tripping.

So is my GFCI working normally?

-- ... we ended up having to return to the old method: extension cord
to an indoor (non-GFCI protected) receptacle.

I thought the old method was lighter fluid.

On Oct 23, 2:03 pm, Big_Jake wrote:
On Oct 23, 10:51 am, "
wrote:





I installed a GFCI receptacle outside (in a suitable waterproof box).
I'm reasonably sure the installation is water tight. Furthermore, I
have experienced tripping problems when it hasn't rained for a long
time. I'm wondering if these tripping problems are "normal" or if
they indicate the existence of a wiring fault of some kind.

I noticed that when I used my hand drill, I would frequently find that
when I went to start the drill, the GFCI had tripped (presumably right
when I stopped drilling last). I would reset it and then I could
proceed to drill. Is this normal behavior for a GFCI, perhaps one
that is very sensitive? I've used a drill in a GFCI in the bathroom
without having this problem.

The second problem device is a charcoal grill starter. This thing is
a resistive heating element on a handle. We were trying to start the
charcoal and it kept tripping so we ended up having to return to the
old method: extension cord to an indoor (non-GFCI protected)
receptacle. The heating element might have been in contact with the
metal grill body. Could current have been sneaking to ground from the
heating element through the body of the grill (which was resting on a
concrete pad)? This would presumably constitute a ground fault and
would explain why the GFCI was tripping.

So is my GFCI working normally?

I could never get my grill starter to get along with a GFI. I even
changed our outdoor outlet to a regular receptacle to be able to use
the grill starter. I don't know why, but they never seem to work well
together.

Jk- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

AIUI: GFCI operate whenever there is an unbalance (i.e. difference
between the current flowing in the live and neutral wires). Such an
unbalance CAN occur if something is faulty or grounding to a metal
casing of an appliance or hand held device (such as an grill starter
etc.).
But I gather that anything with a motor, with its coils and possibly
the trigger switch in only the live side of the line, can, as it is
witched on or off, cause capacitive and or inductive 'kicks' in the
two currents which cause a momentary unbalance and operate the GFCI.
That's why GFCI are never recommended for fridges and freezers cos
they may kick off and food then spoils!
Not always understood why they are called 'Ground Fault .....'
Although they are great for protecting against potentially fatal
faults in appliances/tools especially those used outside or in wet
areas.

On Oct 23, 12:24 pm, terry wrote:
On Oct 23, 2:03 pm, Big_Jake wrote:





On Oct 23, 10:51 am, "
wrote:

I installed a GFCI receptacle outside (in a suitable waterproof box).
I'm reasonably sure the installation is water tight. Furthermore, I
have experienced tripping problems when it hasn't rained for a long
time. I'm wondering if these tripping problems are "normal" or if
they indicate the existence of a wiring fault of some kind.

I noticed that when I used my hand drill, I would frequently find that
when I went to start the drill, the GFCI had tripped (presumably right
when I stopped drilling last). I would reset it and then I could
proceed to drill. Is this normal behavior for a GFCI, perhaps one
that is very sensitive? I've used a drill in a GFCI in the bathroom
without having this problem.

The second problem device is a charcoal grill starter. This thing is
a resistive heating element on a handle. We were trying to start the
charcoal and it kept tripping so we ended up having to return to the
old method: extension cord to an indoor (non-GFCI protected)
receptacle. The heating element might have been in contact with the
metal grill body. Could current have been sneaking to ground from the
heating element through the body of the grill (which was resting on a
concrete pad)? This would presumably constitute a ground fault and
would explain why the GFCI was tripping.

So is my GFCI working normally?

I could never get my grill starter to get along with a GFI. I even
changed our outdoor outlet to a regular receptacle to be able to use
the grill starter. I don't know why, but they never seem to work well
together.

Jk- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

AIUI: GFCI operate whenever there is an unbalance (i.e. difference
between the current flowing in the live and neutral wires). Such an
unbalance CAN occur if something is faulty or grounding to a metal
casing of an appliance or hand held device (such as an grill starter
etc.).
But I gather that anything with a motor, with its coils and possibly
the trigger switch in only the live side of the line, can, as it is
witched on or off, cause capacitive and or inductive 'kicks' in the
two currents which cause a momentary unbalance and operate the GFCI.
That's why GFCI are never recommended for fridges and freezers cos
they may kick off and food then spoils!
Not always understood why they are called 'Ground Fault .....'
Although they are great for protecting against potentially fatal
faults in appliances/tools especially those used outside or in wet
areas.

My washing machine and clothes dryer have been on a GFCI for almost a
year and it has never tripped, FWIW...

nate

On Oct 23, 10:51 am, "
wrote:
I installed a GFCI receptacle outside (in a suitable waterproof box).
I'm reasonably sure the installation is water tight. Furthermore, I
have experienced tripping problems when it hasn't rained for a long
time. I'm wondering if these tripping problems are "normal" or if
they indicate the existence of a wiring fault of some kind.

I noticed that when I used my hand drill, I would frequently find that
when I went to start the drill, the GFCI had tripped (presumably right
when I stopped drilling last). I would reset it and then I could
proceed to drill. Is this normal behavior for a GFCI, perhaps one
that is very sensitive? I've used a drill in a GFCI in the bathroom
without having this problem.

The second problem device is a charcoal grill starter. This thing is
a resistive heating element on a handle. We were trying to start the
charcoal and it kept tripping so we ended up having to return to the
old method: extension cord to an indoor (non-GFCI protected)
receptacle. The heating element might have been in contact with the
metal grill body. Could current have been sneaking to ground from the
heating element through the body of the grill (which was resting on a
concrete pad)? This would presumably constitute a ground fault and
would explain why the GFCI was tripping.

So is my GFCI working normally?

My treadmill (it's close to a hot tub) used to do that a lot too,
until I replaced the cheap GFCI with a better one. If your sure the
ground connections are ok and a GFCI outlet tester shows everything is
ok then it could be the outlet. To test try using a GFCI-equipped
extension cord run outside from an indoor non-GFCI outlet, if the ext
cord also trips under the same circumstances then it's probably some
kind of momentary induced leakage current. If the ext cord does not
trip, then it's probably the outdoor outlet GFCI.

On Tue, 23 Oct 2007 08:51:57 -0700, "
wrote:

I installed a GFCI receptacle outside (in a suitable waterproof box).
I'm reasonably sure the installation is water tight. Furthermore, I
have experienced tripping problems when it hasn't rained for a long
time. I'm wondering if these tripping problems are "normal" or if
they indicate the existence of a wiring fault of some kind.

I noticed that when I used my hand drill, I would frequently find that
when I went to start the drill, the GFCI had tripped (presumably right
when I stopped drilling last). I would reset it and then I could
proceed to drill. Is this normal behavior for a GFCI, perhaps one
that is very sensitive? I've used a drill in a GFCI in the bathroom
without having this problem.


I had a GFCI that would trip whenever anything (even an unconnected
extension cord) was plugged into it. Eventually it started buzzing
constantly and I looked in the box. That box was full of ants, eggs,
and feces.

The second problem device is a charcoal grill starter. This thing is
a resistive heating element on a handle. We were trying to start the
charcoal and it kept tripping so we ended up having to return to the
old method: extension cord to an indoor (non-GFCI protected)
receptacle.

How about using one of those portable lighters that use propane?

The heating element might have been in contact with the
metal grill body. Could current have been sneaking to ground from the
heating element through the body of the grill (which was resting on a
concrete pad)? This would presumably constitute a ground fault and
would explain why the GFCI was tripping.

So is my GFCI working normally?
--
63 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Unlike biological evolution. 'intelligent design' is
not a genuine scientific theory and, therefore, has
no place in the curriculum of our nation's public
school classes." -- Ted Kennedy

My washing machine and clothes dryer have been on a GFCI for almost a
year and it has never tripped, FWIW...

Yep!

It's just not true that an "inductive kick" causes false tripping of a GFCI.

Heaters often develop "leakage" from crap getting on the wires and the heat
tends to fix it in place. It becomes a moisture magnet.

Ice boxes often trip because the defrost heater connections get damp.
Likewise, dishwashers have problems from the heater (see above) and also
from water getting by the seal and into the "guts" of the machine.

The power supplies of PC often/usually include a "network" that provides a
leakage path between the current carrying conductors and ground.

On Oct 23, 2:06 pm, RickH wrote:


So is my GFCI working normally?

My treadmill (it's close to a hot tub) used to do that a lot too,
until I replaced the cheap GFCI with a better one. If your sure the
ground connections are ok and a GFCI outlet tester shows everything is
ok then it could be the outlet. To test try using a GFCI-equipped
extension cord run outside from an indoor non-GFCI outlet, if the ext
cord also trips under the same circumstances then it's probably some
kind of momentary induced leakage current. If the ext cord does not
trip, then it's probably the outdoor outlet GFCI.

When I bought the GFCI (at Home Depot) I had exactly one choice for a
15A GFCI. (They have 3 grades of ordinary receptacle but only one
choice for 15A GFCI.) I can try to get one elsewhere. Any advice on
telling a good one from a cheap one?

What does a GFCI tester do?

wrote:
I installed a GFCI receptacle outside (in a suitable waterproof box).
I'm reasonably sure the installation is water tight. Furthermore, I
have experienced tripping problems when it hasn't rained for a long
time. I'm wondering if these tripping problems are "normal" or if
they indicate the existence of a wiring fault of some kind.

I noticed that when I used my hand drill, I would frequently find that
when I went to start the drill, the GFCI had tripped (presumably right
when I stopped drilling last). I would reset it and then I could
proceed to drill. Is this normal behavior for a GFCI, perhaps one
that is very sensitive? I've used a drill in a GFCI in the bathroom
without having this problem.

The second problem device is a charcoal grill starter. This thing is
a resistive heating element on a handle. We were trying to start the
charcoal and it kept tripping so we ended up having to return to the
old method: extension cord to an indoor (non-GFCI protected)
receptacle. The heating element might have been in contact with the
metal grill body. Could current have been sneaking to ground from the
heating element through the body of the grill (which was resting on a
concrete pad)? This would presumably constitute a ground fault and
would explain why the GFCI was tripping.

So is my GFCI working normally?

If it's happening when something start/stops or has a healthy inductive
load, it's pretty much normal. The phases of currents in the wiring goes
out of phase momentarily, allowing enough current difference to trip the
GFCI. If the Test and Reset buttons work fine, you're probably in good
shape.
FYI, the Test switch places an imbalance across the GFCI's Load side to
check its trip capability; same as a defective appliance would do. The
drill is inductive, and the grill heater probably is, too.

Another possibility is, it did its job in the scenario you described.

Try the drill on another, different GFCI in the house and see if the same
thing happens. IF it's the same brand, it's pretty likely repeatable. If
so, don't worry about it.

You could try an extension cord too, from another GFCI and see if the
trips repeat. If so, no worry.

Different brands of GFCI will work slightly differently but usually they are
repeatable for things like this.

Just for grins, you might check the polarity of the hot/neutral too, in the
outside outlet/s to be certain the polarity is correct. And be certain the
earth ground is present in the receptacles so 3-wire devices are properly
grounded.

A lot of people don't use them outdoors for just that reason unless it's a
pool lighting system, things like that; the motors are kept off them and are
earth-grounded separately as they're designed to be.

HTH

Pop`

Pop` wrote:

....

If it's happening when something start/stops or has a healthy inductive
load, it's pretty much normal. The phases of currents in the wiring goes
out of phase momentarily, allowing enough current difference to trip the
GFCI.
....
Don't think so. If the instaneous currents in the hot and neutral
are not exactly opposite, you have a lot of electrons going
(or coming from somewhere). Unless you think that they are
getting saved up in the drill (for a rainy day?), then they
are going somewhere (probably to ground) and you have a ground fault.

If the Test and Reset buttons work fine, you're probably in good
shape.
FYI, the Test switch places an imbalance across the GFCI's Load side to
check its trip capability; same as a defective appliance would do. The
drill is inductive, and the grill heater probably is, too.
Heaters are rarely inductive. They are almost purely resistive.

Another possibility is, it did its job in the scenario you described.

Try the drill on another, different GFCI in the house and see if the same
thing happens. IF it's the same brand, it's pretty likely repeatable. If
so, don't worry about it.
If the drill causes two different GFCIs to trip, you had better
worry about it.

You could try an extension cord too, from another GFCI and see if the
trips repeat. If so, no worry.

Different brands of GFCI will work slightly differently but usually they are
repeatable for things like this.

Just for grins, you might check the polarity of the hot/neutral too, in the
outside outlet/s to be certain the polarity is correct. And be certain the
earth ground is present in the receptacles so 3-wire devices are properly
grounded.
Good to check, but neither of those should cause a GFCI to falsely trip.

A lot of people don't use them outdoors for just that reason unless it's a
pool lighting system, things like that; the motors are kept off them and are
earth-grounded separately as they're designed to be.

What reason? That because of moisture, outdoor loads are more likely to
have ground faults and trip the GFCI?

On Oct 23, 2:06 pm, RickH wrote:


So is my GFCI working normally?

My treadmill (it's close to a hot tub) used to do that a lot too,
until I replaced the cheap GFCI with a better one. If your sure the
ground connections are ok and a GFCI outlet tester shows everything is
ok then it could be the outlet. To test try using a GFCI-equipped
extension cord run outside from an indoor non-GFCI outlet, if the ext
cord also trips under the same circumstances then it's probably some
kind of momentary induced leakage current. If the ext cord does not
trip, then it's probably the outdoor outlet GFCI.

When I bought the GFCI (at Home Depot) I had exactly one choice for a
15A GFCI. (They have 3 grades of ordinary receptacle but only one
choice for 15A GFCI.) I can try to get one elsewhere. Any advice on
telling a good one from a cheap one?

What does a GFCI tester do?

On 24 Oct, 16:12, "
wrote:
On Oct 23, 2:06 pm, RickH wrote:



So is my GFCI working normally?

My treadmill (it's close to a hot tub) used to do that a lot too,
until I replaced the cheap GFCI with a better one. If your sure the
ground connections are ok and a GFCI outlet tester shows everything is
ok then it could be the outlet. To test try using a GFCI-equipped
extension cord run outside from an indoor non-GFCI outlet, if the ext
cord also trips under the same circumstances then it's probably some
kind of momentary induced leakage current. If the ext cord does not
trip, then it's probably the outdoor outlet GFCI.

-- When I bought the GFCI (at Home Depot) I had exactly one choice for
a
-- 15A GFCI. (They have 3 grades of ordinary receptacle but only one
-- choice for 15A GFCI.) I can try to get one elsewhere. Any advice
on
-- telling a good one from a cheap one?

Go to the parts counter at an electrical supply store (where the
contractors go) and ask them. Many lighting stores have an "counter
sales" section. Fancy-clothed people up front, workboots and coveralls
in the back.

-- What does a GFCI tester do?

http://ecmweb.com/mag/electric_think_gfci/

On Oct 24, 4:23 pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On 24 Oct, 16:12, "
wrote: On Oct 23, 2:06 pm, RickH wrote:

So is my GFCI working normally?

My treadmill (it's close to a hot tub) used to do that a lot too,
until I replaced the cheap GFCI with a better one. If your sure the
ground connections are ok and a GFCI outlet tester shows everything is
ok then it could be the outlet. To test try using a GFCI-equipped
extension cord run outside from an indoor non-GFCI outlet, if the ext
cord also trips under the same circumstances then it's probably some
kind of momentary induced leakage current. If the ext cord does not
trip, then it's probably the outdoor outlet GFCI.

-- When I bought the GFCI (at Home Depot) I had exactly one choice for
a
-- 15A GFCI. (They have 3 grades of ordinary receptacle but only one
-- choice for 15A GFCI.) I can try to get one elsewhere. Any advice
on
-- telling a good one from a cheap one?

Go to the parts counter at an electrical supply store (where the
contractors go) and ask them. Many lighting stores have an "counter
sales" section. Fancy-clothed people up front, workboots and coveralls
in the back.


I've got a lighting/electrical supply place I use regularly, but I
prefer to actually know what I'm doing rather than to hope that the
guy at the counter has a clue. (For fluorescent lighting issues, the
guy at the counter in the back of the lighting store has been
completely wrong. It's better if I know what I need.)

I looked in the Leviton catalog and they appear to have two lines of
GFCI, a "commercial grade" and a "hospital grade". There doesn't seem
to be a cheap "residential grade" nor do I see an "industrial grade".
So I can order a "hospital grade" GFCI if it's likely to make a
difference. But is it? I thought the "commercial grade" was
generally adequate. (I'd wager that the hospital grade GFCI is a
special order item even at the electrical supply store.)

For what it's worth, I used a similar drill (but not the very same
one) in my bathroom GFCI a lot and it never once tripped. (The
bathroom GFCI is the same brand and grade of GFCI as the one outdoors
except it's 20A instead of 15A.) It also seems that the tripping
problem may be getting worse: I'm told that the grill starter worked
in the past on the GFCI.