Plague Boy wrote:
snip

The CFLs I have (mostly from Home Despot, "Commercial Electric", IIRC):

-come on at almost full brightness, even at 60F
-have an agreeable color tone
-have lasted up to 5 years (I have not had one burn out, although I
destroyed one dropping it in a sink full of water, another by physically
breaking it, and one by washing it).
-show no ill effects from being turned on and off many times per day and
only being on short periods

I jinxed myself. Yes, I had a CFL burn out on me today. It's the
overhead light in the pantry, the room off my kitchen where the
sink is. When I removed it, the date was 11-2001. So it has
lasted almost six years in a high duty-cycle environment. Every
time you need water/wash hands/get pots/dump dirty item/toss
trash, this light gets turned on and then off. The only time it
really is on for any time is when I wash dishes.

I read some time ago that Wal-Mart was going to start pushing
the CFLs and have a recycling program for the dead ones. Anybody
have an update on this?


PB

In article fGOOi.4585$rD1.3899@trnddc01, M Q wrote in part:

I have not measured the power factor on them, have you? I believe
that most all residential power meters are just "real" power, not
apparent power.

Residential electric meters do indeed read only "real" power. Power
factor is not an issue there.

EDIT FOR SPACE

-light output is often significantly lower than the incandescents the
bulb is "compared to" on the package.
Yes, the light output is spec'd for a CFL that is brand new, warmed up,
and with base down. Hardly typical. And then it is compared to the least
efficient version of an incandescent bulb that they could find.
Look past the BS marketing.

Most of the time, I find a brand-new CFL at optimum temperature to match
the output of incandescents near the high end of light output for the
claimed "equivalent wattage".

Exceptions:

* 23 watt ones (mostly claim 100 watt equivalence, while I find them more
like "90 watt" equivalence)

* In my experience, many Lights of America and Maxlite models were dimmer
than others of same claimed light output

* Some daylight models in my experience fall a little short

* Dollar store junkers - BIGTIME!!! - along with other issues that make
them outright stool specimens!

- Don Klipstein )

In article .com,
wrote:

SNIP stuff already said; edit for space

My experience has been exactly the opposite and very disappointing.
I recently bought a 4 pack of FEIT reflector indoor flood type ones at
Costco. First problem, despite looking very similar, they will not
fit in my existing ceiling cans. And no, it's not that they are the
wrong R type. It's that the area near the neck is too wide so it
hits the retaining clips in the can and won't screw in.

OK, so I go buy a couple of screw-in extenders, that cost $3 each and
the bulbs finally go in. Next problem, they take and extremely long
time to warm up. Longer than any other CFL I have ever seen. I have
them in the kitchen and you can imagine what that's like when you come
in at night and want to just get something quick, then leave. I'd say
it takes over a min to get anything close to acceptable and probably 3
mins before they reach full output. So, the obvious tendency is to
just leave them on if you think you'll be back in an hour. There
goes the energy savings.

And one of the first 2 lasted only 2 months. I thought this could be
just a fluke. Replaced it and that one lasted less about a month.
I'm on the last of the 4 now.

CFLs with outer bulbs, in my experience, tend to start dimmer and take
longer to warm up than ones without. Also, ceiling cans are heat
hellholes and many CFLs will overheat there.

I would recommend Philips SLS non-dimmable up to 23 watts with the
available clip-on R40 reflector (if R40 fits). If R40 does not fit, there
is an R30 clip-on reflector, but light output is compromised somewhat.

SNIP

IMO, we'd be much better off if they figured out what the essential
problems are here. Why does it take these much longer than other
flourescent lights to achieve reasonable brightness? My guess is the
size limits for the transformer/electronics may have something to do
with it?

The more compact tubing heats up more. Mercury vapor works best at
producing the fluorescence-causing UV over a limited temperature range.
They design the CFL to work best at the temperature it will normally on
average settle at. When this temperature is higher, there is a greater
need for warmup.

If that's the case, maybe we should be focusing on
developing new lights from the ground up, for new construction and
remodeling. If there were a good flourescent recessed light option
avaliable, when I remodel, I would put it in.

Philips non-dimmable up to 23 watts is outright rated for this.

It is now common for office buildings to have recessed ceiling fixtures
with CFLs, but they usually use something different. The fixtures are
special ones made for ballastless CFLs, are designed optically and usually
thermally for these CFLs, have ballasts, and take ballastless CFLs such as
industry standard 13 watt twintube or 26 watt doubletwintube.

- Don Klipstein )

On Mon, 08 Oct 2007 15:16:38 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:

wrote:


I have tried and tried these CFLs and find them hugely disappointing.
I
really think this is going to become the 1.6-gallon-toilet of the new
generation - a few work somewhat well, most don't, but the reports
from
the field are all hidden under the glowing, glowing hype. Leaving
the
closet light on because it won't come to full brightness quickly might
become the next double-flush.

I mean, I really *wanted* the CFLs to work. I like fluorescents, but
give me T8s in a proper fixture and keep the damn CFLs except for
a few special cases. Not only is there the brightness problem, but

-the light is poor in quality in most of the ones most people can
afford

-there is no discussion of power factor because nobody knows about it

-No energy is saved during the heating season

-even the most compact CFLs are bulky and heavy, and won't fit a lot
of
fixtures, and overstress sockets.

-in a fully enclosed fixture, I find that CFLs tend to overheat and
fail

-light output is often significantly lower than the incandescents the
bulb is "compared to" on the package.

Of course, nobody sees anything past the "ENERGY SAVINGS!!! YAY!"

I've been using CFLs for quite a while and have not experienced any of
the claimed issues. Color temperatures are good, initial brightness and
time to full brightness are fine in living area conditions, no CFL
meltdowns, no fit issues vs. "A" incandescents, etc. Only in an unheated
storage container in CT winter is there a noticeable dim start and full
brightness in a couple minutes and that's hardly a problem.

I am going to mostly agree, but with exceptions. I bought some of the
original CFLs about 6 years ago. They were two straight tubes that
formed a "U shape". Of the 3 that I bought, one was in a bedroom
light and lasted 3 to 4 years and were placed horizontal. Two were in
a kitchen fixture where they sit base at a 45deg angle upward. That
fixture is on almost 24/7. Once and awhile I shut it off during the
day, but it's always on all night as a security light. One died last
year after about 5 years, the other is still working fine. These
bulbs come on almost instantly. good color, etc. I was and still am
well pleased with them. Their only drawbacks are they are long (about
8 inches). They either dont fit in most fixtures or look kind of
stupid hanging out the end of an open fixture. Their other drawback,
they are no longer sold.

Then they came out with these spiral CFLs. In my opinion, they are
JUNK - JUNK - JUNK......
I have tried several brands. All are slow to light (some worse than
others). My biggest complaint is that they are short lived, and I
have had some literally go up in smoke. I cant complain about the
color or light output (if I get the larger wattage ones), but the full
output takes quite awhile. I cant think of one of them that has
lasted any longer than a common indecesant bulb. Some do not fit in
fixtures, but git better than those I mentioned above. In a cold
garage or shed, they are useless in winter. I just replace them in
winter with standard bulbs out there.

I am one person who was really sold on them, but am slowly getting rid
of most of them now. In my "always on" security light, I hope to be
able to find something that lasts, when my last "old" one burns out,
or I will just replace the fixture with a florescent tube. In outdoor
buildings and fixtures, most are gone now. In my bathroom, they are
gone (I want instant full brightness). In extremely flammable
situations, they are also gone after having several of them spark and
smoke.

At one time I had nearly every fixture in the house and out buildings
with them. The porch light and a few other places were the only
standard bulbs. I probably had 90% of all fixtures with CFLs. Now, I
probably only have 30% of them, and as they die, I just replace them
with standard bulbs. I am very disappointed with the newest ones.

Alvin

In article ,
wrote:

I am going to mostly agree, but with exceptions. I bought some of the
original CFLs about 6 years ago. They were two straight tubes that
formed a "U shape". Of the 3 that I bought, one was in a bedroom
light and lasted 3 to 4 years and were placed horizontal. Two were in
a kitchen fixture where they sit base at a 45deg angle upward. That
fixture is on almost 24/7. Once and awhile I shut it off during the
day, but it's always on all night as a security light. One died last
year after about 5 years, the other is still working fine. These
bulbs come on almost instantly. good color, etc. I was and still am
well pleased with them. Their only drawbacks are they are long (about
8 inches). They either dont fit in most fixtures or look kind of
stupid hanging out the end of an open fixture. Their other drawback,
they are no longer sold.

Are you talking about the 13 watt twintube? F13TT? PL-13? That plugs
into a ballast-adapter? If so, those are still sold. They are available
at home centers, electrical/lighting supply shops, and some (but not all)
hardware stores.

Or are you talking about quadtube and 6-tube screw base models? Those
should still be available at electrical/lighting supply shops and online
lightbulb outfits such as bulbs.com.

Then they came out with these spiral CFLs. In my opinion, they are
JUNK - JUNK - JUNK......
I have tried several brands. All are slow to light (some worse than
others). My biggest complaint is that they are short lived, and I
have had some literally go up in smoke. I cant complain about the
color or light output (if I get the larger wattage ones), but the full
output takes quite awhile. I cant think of one of them that has
lasted any longer than a common indecesant bulb. Some do not fit in
fixtures, but git better than those I mentioned above.

For better life expectancy, I would:

* Get ones that have the "Energy Star" logo
* Preferably get ones of "Big 3" brands (GE, Philips, Sylvania). Target
has GE ones and Lowes has Sylvania ones. NOTE - The "usual color" of
Sylvania is not 2700K but a pinkish shade of 3000 K - it could look on the
harsh side.

* Be wary of Lights of America. I had a lot of early failures and saw
many die young in locations that I frequented in my delivery job.
DISCLAIMER - I have only bought one LOA since 2001.

* Do not get dollar store junkers.

* Be wary of the few remaining older stock 25 watt spirals - there was a
bad production run of those.

* Not use spirals over 19 watts or so in small enclosed fixtures or
downlights.


In a cold garage or shed, they are useless in winter. I just replace
them in winter with standard bulbs out there.

There are special outdoor CFLs with outer bulbs. However, they have a
severe warmup requirement, even more so than bare spirals.

I am one person who was really sold on them, but am slowly getting rid
of most of them now. In my "always on" security light, I hope to be
able to find something that lasts, when my last "old" one burns out,
or I will just replace the fixture with a florescent tube. In outdoor
buildings and fixtures, most are gone now. In my bathroom, they are
gone (I want instant full brightness). In extremely flammable
situations, they are also gone after having several of them spark and
smoke.

So far, I have only experienced spectacular burnouts of dollar store
junkers and one Lights of America unit. If the CFL is an integral ballast
one (as in the usual screw base ones, as opposed to PL types and the
like), they are normally UL listed. Avoid screw base CFLs that are not UL
listed. Most dollar store junkers are not.

At one time I had nearly every fixture in the house and out buildings
with them. The porch light and a few other places were the only
standard bulbs.

Porch lights are actually a good place for CFLs since they normally have
long on-time per start. But use outdoor ones such as Philips SL/O.

I probably had 90% of all fixtures with CFLs. Now, I
probably only have 30% of them, and as they die, I just replace them
with standard bulbs. I am very disappointed with the newest ones.

- Don Klipstein )