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#1
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Bad A/C reversing valve?
We completed construction on our home in Florida in 7/2006. We have 2
Bryant central air units (one 3 ton unit and one 4 ton unit). Last week I noticed the 3ton unit couldn't keep up with the cooling during the afternoon hours. I called the A/C company that put the units in during construction. Here is what happened: Visit 1: (last week): the tech tells me the system is low on freon either because it was never filled properly or there is a leak (they'll test for the leak if it gets low again and the problem resurfaces). I received a bill for $90 and was told the unit would catch up that night then should be fine. The tech noted that air was now coming out 16 degrees cooler than when going in so I should now be fine. Visit 2: after I called and advised there was no change the boss sent out his "best diagnostician" who "made some adjustments" with the air handler which is up in the attic and noted we now had 18 degrees of cooling and the unit would be fine once it catches up tonight, but again there was no change. Visit 3 (today): the boss decided to send a team to figure it out, the 2 original techs plus one more. They each seemed to have their own diagnosis of the problem based on what my wife had overheard (unfortunately I wasn't around the whole time). They had simply told me the plan was to gather info and have Bryant diagnose the system. Now I'm told the reversing valve needs to be replaced to the sum of $720 even though the unit and part is under warranty (I'm told it's a lot of labor to replace it). I called another company who will come in the morning for a free estimate/2nd opinion. They told me the problem didn't sound like something caused by a bad reversing valve but they'd come out and see. I'm looking for any advice on how to proceed with and what questions I should ask, as I'm looking at a lot of money and not confident these guys know what the real problem is. |
#2
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Bad A/C reversing valve?
I guess I should have posted this on alt.hvac. which I'll do.
On Aug 31, 5:55 pm, wrote: We completed construction on our home in Florida in 7/2006. We have 2 Bryant central air units (one 3 ton unit and one 4 ton unit). Last week I noticed the 3ton unit couldn't keep up with the cooling during the afternoon hours. I called the A/C company that put the units in during construction. Here is what happened: Visit 1: (last week): the tech tells me the system is low on freon either because it was never filled properly or there is a leak (they'll test for the leak if it gets low again and the problem resurfaces). I received a bill for $90 and was told the unit would catch up that night then should be fine. The tech noted that air was now coming out 16 degrees cooler than when going in so I should now be fine. Visit 2: after I called and advised there was no change the boss sent out his "best diagnostician" who "made some adjustments" with the air handler which is up in the attic and noted we now had 18 degrees of cooling and the unit would be fine once it catches up tonight, but again there was no change. Visit 3 (today): the boss decided to send a team to figure it out, the 2 original techs plus one more. They each seemed to have their own diagnosis of the problem based on what my wife had overheard (unfortunately I wasn't around the whole time). They had simply told me the plan was to gather info and have Bryant diagnose the system. Now I'm told the reversing valve needs to be replaced to the sum of $720 even though the unit and part is under warranty (I'm told it's a lot of labor to replace it). I called another company who will come in the morning for a free estimate/2nd opinion. They told me the problem didn't sound like something caused by a bad reversing valve but they'd come out and see. I'm looking for any advice on how to proceed with and what questions I should ask, as I'm looking at a lot of money and not confident these guys know what the real problem is. |
#4
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Bad A/C reversing valve?
"Moe Jones" wrote in message ... wrote: I guess I should have posted this on alt.hvac. which I'll do. On Aug 31, 5:55 pm, wrote: We completed construction on our home in Florida in 7/2006. We have 2 Bryant central air units (one 3 ton unit and one 4 ton unit). Last week I noticed the 3ton unit couldn't keep up with the cooling during the afternoon hours. I called the A/C company that put the units in during construction. Here is what happened: Visit 1: (last week): the tech tells me the system is low on freon either because it was never filled properly or there is a leak (they'll test for the leak if it gets low again and the problem resurfaces). I received a bill for $90 and was told the unit would catch up that night then should be fine. The tech noted that air was now coming out 16 degrees cooler than when going in so I should now be fine. Visit 2: after I called and advised there was no change the boss sent out his "best diagnostician" who "made some adjustments" with the air handler which is up in the attic and noted we now had 18 degrees of cooling and the unit would be fine once it catches up tonight, but again there was no change. Visit 3 (today): the boss decided to send a team to figure it out, the 2 original techs plus one more. They each seemed to have their own diagnosis of the problem based on what my wife had overheard (unfortunately I wasn't around the whole time). They had simply told me the plan was to gather info and have Bryant diagnose the system. Now I'm told the reversing valve needs to be replaced to the sum of $720 even though the unit and part is under warranty (I'm told it's a lot of labor to replace it). I called another company who will come in the morning for a free estimate/2nd opinion. They told me the problem didn't sound like something caused by a bad reversing valve but they'd come out and see. I'm looking for any advice on how to proceed with and what questions I should ask, as I'm looking at a lot of money and not confident these guys know what the real problem is. It could be anything but you would think that the problem would be under warranty. Allot of the times you can play with the paper work to get it under warranty if it that close. Most manufactures have a 5 yr parts warranty. And most reputable HVAC companies will take care of the installation costs when it's just over a yr old. But, then again, the company isn't reputable or they wouldn't be relying on Bryant to diagnose a unit they installed!!!! |
#5
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Bad A/C reversing valve?
wrote in message ps.com... I guess I should have posted this on alt.hvac. which I'll do. Ohhhh that should be fun. Be sure to report back and tell us what you learned. |
#6
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Bad A/C reversing valve?
"Clark" wrote in message ... "Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in news:g92Ci.1453$3Y1.1256 @newssvr17.news.prodigy.net: wrote in message ps.com... I guess I should have posted this on alt.hvac. which I'll do. Ohhhh that should be fun. Be sure to report back and tell us what you learned. Maybe he already knows how to ignore abusive folks? Like yourself, who offers the OP no useful information. |
#7
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Bad A/C reversing valve?
"Clark" wrote in message ... kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in news:2796a$46d947f0$9440c41e$20135 @STARBAND.NET: "Clark" wrote in message ... "Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in news:g92Ci.1453$3Y1.1256 @newssvr17.news.prodigy.net: wrote in message ps.com... I guess I should have posted this on alt.hvac. which I'll do. Ohhhh that should be fun. Be sure to report back and tell us what you learned. Maybe he already knows how to ignore abusive folks? Like yourself, who offers the OP no useful information. I did offer the OP useful information. The information is: posters in alt.hvac are generally abusive in nature. You are a prime example. So now you are wrong one more time. Will you ever learn? I already know that you're an idiot. Looking for a cookie? |
#8
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Bad A/C reversing valve?
"Clark" wrote in message ... kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in news:e70bb$46da2c0c$9440c41e$24038 @STARBAND.NET: "Clark" wrote in message ... kjpro @ usenet.com wrote in news:2796a$46d947f0$9440c41e$20135 @STARBAND.NET: "Clark" wrote in message ... "Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in news:g92Ci.1453$3Y1.1256 @newssvr17.news.prodigy.net: wrote in message ps.com... I guess I should have posted this on alt.hvac. which I'll do. Ohhhh that should be fun. Be sure to report back and tell us what you learned. Maybe he already knows how to ignore abusive folks? Like yourself, who offers the OP no useful information. I did offer the OP useful information. The information is: posters in alt.hvac are generally abusive in nature. You are a prime example. So now you are wrong one more time. Will you ever learn? I already know that you're an idiot. Wait right here. Someone will come along and explain it to you. No explanation needed, you're an idiot. |
#9
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Bad A/C reversing valve?
The four way reversing valve is energised on cooling
and de-energised on heating. Set the thermostat UP to 30C and the valve should de-energise and HEAT Set the thermostat DOWN to 15C and the valve should energise and COOL wrote in message oups.com... We completed construction on our home in Florida in 7/2006. We have 2 Bryant central air units (one 3 ton unit and one 4 ton unit). Last week I noticed the 3ton unit couldn't keep up with the cooling during the afternoon hours. I called the A/C company that put the units in during construction. Here is what happened: Visit 1: (last week): the tech tells me the system is low on freon either because it was never filled properly or there is a leak (they'll test for the leak if it gets low again and the problem resurfaces). I received a bill for $90 and was told the unit would catch up that night then should be fine. The tech noted that air was now coming out 16 degrees cooler than when going in so I should now be fine. Visit 2: after I called and advised there was no change the boss sent out his "best diagnostician" who "made some adjustments" with the air handler which is up in the attic and noted we now had 18 degrees of cooling and the unit would be fine once it catches up tonight, but again there was no change. Visit 3 (today): the boss decided to send a team to figure it out, the 2 original techs plus one more. They each seemed to have their own diagnosis of the problem based on what my wife had overheard (unfortunately I wasn't around the whole time). They had simply told me the plan was to gather info and have Bryant diagnose the system. Now I'm told the reversing valve needs to be replaced to the sum of $720 even though the unit and part is under warranty (I'm told it's a lot of labor to replace it). I called another company who will come in the morning for a free estimate/2nd opinion. They told me the problem didn't sound like something caused by a bad reversing valve but they'd come out and see. I'm looking for any advice on how to proceed with and what questions I should ask, as I'm looking at a lot of money and not confident these guys know what the real problem is. |
#10
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Bad A/C reversing valve?
The Four Way Reversing Valve is a sealed PILOT operated
valve with four ports. The two centre ports are connected to the Accumulator and Discharge and the adjoining ports if the Valve is sealing correctly should have temperatures equal to the temperature of a centre port. As an example on cooling with the Solenoid Valve energised the port connected to the outdoor coil should have a temperature equal to the discharge port on Heating with the solenoid valve de-energised it should have a temperature equal to the accumulator port. Cycling the internal slide valve backwards and forwards by switching from heating to cooling will usually Flush out contamination and seal the valve. wrote in message oups.com... We completed construction on our home in Florida in 7/2006. We have 2 Bryant central air units (one 3 ton unit and one 4 ton unit). Last week I noticed the 3ton unit couldn't keep up with the cooling during the afternoon hours. I called the A/C company that put the units in during construction. Here is what happened: Visit 1: (last week): the tech tells me the system is low on freon either because it was never filled properly or there is a leak (they'll test for the leak if it gets low again and the problem resurfaces). I received a bill for $90 and was told the unit would catch up that night then should be fine. The tech noted that air was now coming out 16 degrees cooler than when going in so I should now be fine. Visit 2: after I called and advised there was no change the boss sent out his "best diagnostician" who "made some adjustments" with the air handler which is up in the attic and noted we now had 18 degrees of cooling and the unit would be fine once it catches up tonight, but again there was no change. Visit 3 (today): the boss decided to send a team to figure it out, the 2 original techs plus one more. They each seemed to have their own diagnosis of the problem based on what my wife had overheard (unfortunately I wasn't around the whole time). They had simply told me the plan was to gather info and have Bryant diagnose the system. Now I'm told the reversing valve needs to be replaced to the sum of $720 even though the unit and part is under warranty (I'm told it's a lot of labor to replace it). I called another company who will come in the morning for a free estimate/2nd opinion. They told me the problem didn't sound like something caused by a bad reversing valve but they'd come out and see. I'm looking for any advice on how to proceed with and what questions I should ask, as I'm looking at a lot of money and not confident these guys know what the real problem is. |
#11
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Bad A/C reversing valve?
wrote in message
oups.com... We completed construction on our home in Florida in 7/2006. We have 2 Bryant central air units (one 3 ton unit and one 4 ton unit). Last week I noticed the 3ton unit couldn't keep up with the cooling during the afternoon hours. 1) Ask the installing company for a copy of the heat load calculation that was done when the 3 ton unit was sized for the space that is being air conditioned. That's the only way you'll know if it was correctly sized for the application. 2) What is the return-side temperature at the air handler? If it is more than a few degrees over the air temperature measured at the interior return grill(s), you have a duct leak on the return side. 3) Has the supply plenum and duct work been checked for leaks? 4) Any competent contractor can take a eight or so readings (of pressures, temperatures) and determine what the problem is without any guessing. 5) With an 18 degree delta-T I seriously doubt that you have a defective reversing valve. Don't let the contractor hack into your system unless Bryant confirms that this is the cause of your problems. Good luck - it sounds like you will need it. |
#12
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Bad A/C reversing valve?
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#13
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Bad A/C reversing valve?
I understand your posting that is good chance of having
bad/leaky reversing valve and I am agreeing with you in addition to that possible bad compressor but neither one of us can say that unless you are there with gauges to check it out. what puzzle me (and I am asking ) if you have any problem with air supply/moving would it be greater temperature difference instead of smaller because coil/evaporator would be working at lower temperatures unless you are taking air from outside instead of recirculating air from inside, hmm that is possibility that fresh air damper is "oversized/stuck open or ?". Tony Note: kjpro I do not need your **** oldacdude wrote in message ... On Fri, 31 Aug 2007 14:55:21 -0700, wrote: We completed construction on our home in Florida in 7/2006. We have 2 Bryant central air units (one 3 ton unit and one 4 ton unit). Last week I noticed the 3ton unit couldn't keep up with the cooling during the afternoon hours. I called the A/C company that put the units in during construction. Here is what happened: Visit 1: (last week): the tech tells me the system is low on freon either because it was never filled properly or there is a leak (they'll test for the leak if it gets low again and the problem resurfaces). I received a bill for $90 and was told the unit would catch up that night then should be fine. The tech noted that air was now coming out 16 degrees cooler than when going in so I should now be fine. Visit 2: after I called and advised there was no change the boss sent out his "best diagnostician" who "made some adjustments" with the air handler which is up in the attic and noted we now had 18 degrees of cooling and the unit would be fine once it catches up tonight, but again there was no change. Visit 3 (today): the boss decided to send a team to figure it out, the 2 original techs plus one more. They each seemed to have their own diagnosis of the problem based on what my wife had overheard (unfortunately I wasn't around the whole time). They had simply told me the plan was to gather info and have Bryant diagnose the system. Now I'm told the reversing valve needs to be replaced to the sum of $720 even though the unit and part is under warranty (I'm told it's a lot of labor to replace it). I called another company who will come in the morning for a free estimate/2nd opinion. They told me the problem didn't sound like something caused by a bad reversing valve but they'd come out and see. I'm looking for any advice on how to proceed with and what questions I should ask, as I'm looking at a lot of money and not confident these guys know what the real problem is. If you have an 18 degree temp difference then you have about a one percent chance that there is a problem with the reversing valve. You are getting the run around or some stupid techs or both. Some things to have them check: Are the return and supply ducts sized correctly? If they say they are then make them show you there manual D calculations. Is the return grill sized correctly? Are the ducts sealed and free of kinks? Is the return duct connected to a plenum or just hacked into the air handler? Is the line set free of kinks? Are the filters clean? Did the installing company do a load calculation or just take a swag at it? If they say they did a load calculation then make them show it to you. Is the system charged correctly? Is the indoor blower set to the correct speed tap? Is the evaporator coil restricted with loose insulation etc.? Is the condenser restricted or blocked by anything? Is the condenser placed under any structures like a deck etc.? |
#14
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Bad A/C reversing valve?
Thanks for all the info, I'll gather whatever info I can as I've had
different diagnoses, false fixes, and opinions from 5 techs now. All of the return filters and vents I have replaced and seem ok. Here's the latest: -I spoke with the owner of the company that installed and has been servicing the unit. He says one of his techs felt the TXV valve was bad but they worked with Bryant over the phone who said the reversing valve was bad based on the data given. He said it would be close to $1000 to replace both and I should call Bryant and bitch to see what they'd do since the unit is only 14 months old. -I called a new hvac company for a 2nd opininon. They sent a tech out. He measured the refrigerant psi for the lines attached to the condenser. He noted the pressure was climbing from 200 to almost 400 psi, at which point the release valve kicked in and it would soon start all over again. He had eventually gotten the pressure stable and said he believed there was contamination in the line and the issue was now fixed (although I found no change later on). This is the info he gave me on what he did: -found system overcharged -found system heat pressure raising to 450psi from 210 -pumped system down, inspected piston at liquid line at condenser & screen at condenser. Found a small chunk of possibly brazing rod -flushed nitrogen through lineset to make sure there was good flow -pulled system into deep vacuum -recovered some of refrigerant to proper charge -system working properly -suction & liquid pressure steady - 10 degree superheat LO 80 -12 degree subcooling Hi 200 -18 degree delta T - compressor amps 10.1 I called the company back and they sent out another guy. He energized/ de-energized the reversing valve using heat and cooling but it did not help. He had been looking at the air handler and says there's no filter drier installed and now the system needs to be cleaned out, txv replaced, filter drier installed and we mostly likely don't have a filter drier on our other system (although that one's been functioning ok). I looked at the documentation for this unit and the filter drier is listed under optional equipment but another page says it is suggested in all field-connected split-system heat pumps. Can the absence of this filter really cause the issue? If so, is this a major mis-step of the installers to not put it in? |
#15
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Bad A/C reversing valve?
wrote:
Thanks for all the info, I'll gather whatever info I can as I've had different diagnoses, false fixes, and opinions from 5 techs now. All of the return filters and vents I have replaced and seem ok. Here's the latest: -I spoke with the owner of the company that installed and has been servicing the unit. He says one of his techs felt the TXV valve was bad but they worked with Bryant over the phone who said the reversing valve was bad based on the data given. He said it would be close to $1000 to replace both and I should call Bryant and bitch to see what they'd do since the unit is only 14 months old. -I called a new hvac company for a 2nd opininon. They sent a tech out. He measured the refrigerant psi for the lines attached to the condenser. He noted the pressure was climbing from 200 to almost 400 psi, at which point the release valve kicked in and it would soon start all over again. He had eventually gotten the pressure stable and said he believed there was contamination in the line and the issue was now fixed (although I found no change later on). This is the info he gave me on what he did: -found system overcharged -found system heat pressure raising to 450psi from 210 -pumped system down, inspected piston at liquid line at condenser & screen at condenser. Found a small chunk of possibly brazing rod -flushed nitrogen through lineset to make sure there was good flow -pulled system into deep vacuum -recovered some of refrigerant to proper charge -system working properly -suction & liquid pressure steady - 10 degree superheat LO 80 -12 degree subcooling Hi 200 -18 degree delta T - compressor amps 10.1 I called the company back and they sent out another guy. He energized/ de-energized the reversing valve using heat and cooling but it did not help. He had been looking at the air handler and says there's no filter drier installed and now the system needs to be cleaned out, txv replaced, filter drier installed and we mostly likely don't have a filter drier on our other system (although that one's been functioning ok). I looked at the documentation for this unit and the filter drier is listed under optional equipment but another page says it is suggested in all field-connected split-system heat pumps. Can the absence of this filter really cause the issue? If so, is this a major mis-step of the installers to not put it in? Many condensing units have a small factory installed liquid line dryer inside the housing. On any of the systems me and my guys install or disconnect for repair, we in install a replaceable liquid line dryer and sight glass with a moisture indicator. Using flare fittings and sealer called Leak Lock makes it easy to replace the dryer or attach fittings for blowing out the lines or pressure testing. Another product I often use on sticky valves is Supco88, it's like Liquid Wrench for refrigeration and AC units. http://www.supco.com/Chemicals%20pg7.htm Injecting Supco88 into your system could help free up the reversing valve, expansion valve or clear a clogged port if that what is causing the problem. [8~{} Uncle Monster |
#16
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Bad A/C reversing valve?
wrote in message
ups.com... Thanks for all the info, I'll gather whatever info I can as I've had different diagnoses, false fixes, and opinions from 5 techs now. All of the return filters and vents I have replaced and seem ok. Here's the latest: -I spoke with the owner of the company that installed and has been servicing the unit. He says one of his techs felt the TXV valve was bad but they worked with Bryant over the phone who said the reversing valve was bad based on the data given. He said it would be close to $1000 to replace both and I should call Bryant and bitch to see what they'd do since the unit is only 14 months old. The tech "felt" the TXV was bad? That's a sure sign of a hack. And without the data Bryant's telephone diagnosis isn't any better. -I called a new hvac company for a 2nd opininon. They sent a tech out. He measured the refrigerant psi for the lines attached to the condenser. He noted the pressure was climbing from 200 to almost 400 psi, at which point the release valve kicked in and it would soon start all over again. He had eventually gotten the pressure stable and said he believed there was contamination in the line and the issue was now fixed (although I found no change later on). This is the info he gave me on what he did: -found system overcharged Yep, your system was hacked. -found system heat pressure raising to 450psi from 210 -pumped system down, inspected piston at liquid line at condenser & screen at condenser. Found a small chunk of possibly brazing rod -flushed nitrogen through lineset to make sure there was good flow -pulled system into deep vacuum -recovered some of refrigerant to proper charge -system working properly -suction & liquid pressure steady - 10 degree superheat LO 80 -12 degree subcooling Hi 200 -18 degree delta T - compressor amps 10.1 How do these numbers compare to the specs for this system? I called the company back and they sent out another guy. He energized/ de-energized the reversing valve using heat and cooling but it did not help. That's because the reversing valve isn't the problem. He had been looking at the air handler and says there's no filter drier installed and now the system needs to be cleaned out, txv replaced, filter drier installed and we mostly likely don't have a filter drier on our other system (although that one's been functioning ok). With an 18 degree delta T I'd say the TXV is working OK. I looked at the documentation for this unit and the filter drier is listed under optional equipment but another page says it is suggested in all field-connected split-system heat pumps. Can the absence of this filter really cause the issue? If so, is this a major mis-step of the installers to not put it in? As we know, the original installer is a hack. However, the absence of a filter dryer in a properly designed and installed split system isn't fatal in and of itself. Did you ever get a look at the heat load calculation that the installing company did? Oh yes, that's right... they are a hack. How about the return and supply plenum temperatures? You still might have a return-side duct leak. The most recent tech seemed to have the most scientific approach to diagnosis; maybe his company can do a heat load calculation for you and tell you if your system is correctly designed. |
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