Hello;

I realize this has nothing to do with repair, but the other alt.home.*
groups seem to either be near-dead and/or also inappropriate ...

Anyone have an experience with an evaporative air cooler, that they
can relate? An example would be the CoolAir 4000 air cooler:

http://www.coolair4000.com/

I'm looking for an alternative to an air conditioning unit to lower
the temperature of a 260 sq.ft. room by about 10 degrees.

Thanks in advance.

Dave wrote:

Anyone have an experience with an evaporative air cooler, that they
can relate? An example would be the CoolAir 4000 air cooler:

http://www.coolair4000.com/

Eeeww. Not that one. More hype than specs.

I'm looking for an alternative to an air conditioning unit to lower
the temperature of a 260 sq.ft. room by about 10 degrees.

In what part of the country? Nearest city?

Nick

"Dave" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hello;

I realize this has nothing to do with repair, but the other alt.home.*
groups seem to either be near-dead and/or also inappropriate ...

Anyone have an experience with an evaporative air cooler, that they
can relate? An example would be the CoolAir 4000 air cooler:

http://www.coolair4000.com/

I'm looking for an alternative to an air conditioning unit to lower
the temperature of a 260 sq.ft. room by about 10 degrees.

Thanks in advance.


Where do you live and what's your climate? If you have humidity, evap's
don't work. They are effective in dry climes (20% or less relative
humidity). I can't comment on the cooler you linked. We've used evaps for
years here in NM but our typical summers are quite dry (until the Monsoon
season and then the coolers are pretty worthless).
Cheers,
cc

On Jul 31, 10:56 am, Dave wrote:
Hello;

I realize this has nothing to do with repair, but the other alt.home.*
groups seem to either be near-dead and/or also inappropriate ...

Anyone have an experience with an evaporative air cooler, that they
can relate? An example would be the CoolAir 4000 air cooler:

http://www.coolair4000.com/

I'm looking for an alternative to an air conditioning unit to lower
the temperature of a 260 sq.ft. room by about 10 degrees.

Thanks in advance.

best advise is to visit someone else that has an evap cooler in your
area and see if you like it.

if no one in your area has one, that tells you something...

Mark

Dave wrote:

I realize this has nothing to do with repair, but the other alt.home.*
groups seem to either be near-dead and/or also inappropriate ...

Anyone have an experience with an evaporative air cooler, that they
can relate? An example would be the CoolAir 4000 air cooler:

http://www.coolair4000.com/

I'm looking for an alternative to an air conditioning unit to lower
the temperature of a 260 sq.ft. room by about 10 degrees.

Thanks in advance.

http:/groups.google.com on evaporative swamp cooler will tell you more than you
ever wanted to know.

Basically, if they don't sell them at the local bigbox hardware store, you can't
use them.

Evap coolers are good for 10 to 15 degrees max and only work when the relative
humidity is between 0-15%. Go any higher that and you risk creating a serious
mold problem for yourself and they don't cool above that level of humidity
anyway.

So unless you live in the desert SW, you shouldn't be using them. Even new
construction in Phoenix avoids them because a) they use a lot of water, b) the
grass and resorts have bumped up the local humidity, and c) going from 110 down
to 100 doesn't buy you much on the comfort scale.

--
"Tell me what I should do, Annie."
"Stay. Here. Forever." - Life On Mars

On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 19:07:28 -0600, Rick Blaine
wrote:

Dave wrote:

I realize this has nothing to do with repair, but the other alt.home.*
groups seem to either be near-dead and/or also inappropriate ...

Anyone have an experience with an evaporative air cooler, that they
can relate? An example would be the CoolAir 4000 air cooler:

http://www.coolair4000.com/

I'm looking for an alternative to an air conditioning unit to lower
the temperature of a 260 sq.ft. room by about 10 degrees.

Thanks in advance.

http:/groups.google.com on evaporative swamp cooler will tell you more than you
ever wanted to know.

Basically, if they don't sell them at the local bigbox hardware store, you can't
use them.

Evap coolers are good for 10 to 15 degrees max and only work when the relative
humidity is between 0-15%. Go any higher that and you risk creating a serious
mold problem for yourself and they don't cool above that level of humidity
anyway.

So unless you live in the desert SW, you shouldn't be using them. Even new
construction in Phoenix avoids them because a) they use a lot of water, b) the
grass and resorts have bumped up the local humidity, and c) going from 110 down
to 100 doesn't buy you much on the comfort scale.
I used a Master Cool Plus located on a flat roof for 8 years in the
Tucson, AZ area. Worked like a charm, did not need air conditioning
except during the monsoon season, mid June to Sept approx. It used
very, very little water and electricity; it just had to be
disconnected in the winter to prevent freezing. Big 4x4 filter was
hosed down once a year;, no mold, etc.
In southern parts of New Mexico, they are in use for most of the year.
Las Cruces comes to mind.
The picture of the unit y'all supplied probably operates on the same
principle, however I have no experience with it. I doubt if it would
be effective above 15% humidity, as indicated above.
hth

On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 09:35:46 -0600, "James \"Cubby\" Culbertson"
wrote:


"Dave" wrote in message
roups.com...
Hello;

I realize this has nothing to do with repair, but the other alt.home.*
groups seem to either be near-dead and/or also inappropriate ...

Anyone have an experience with an evaporative air cooler, that they
can relate? An example would be the CoolAir 4000 air cooler:

http://www.coolair4000.com/

I'm looking for an alternative to an air conditioning unit to lower
the temperature of a 260 sq.ft. room by about 10 degrees.

Thanks in advance.


Where do you live and what's your climate? If you have humidity, evap's
don't work. They are effective in dry climes (20% or less relative
humidity). I can't comment on the cooler you linked.

Itt is worth noting that afaict, the ad for that one says nothing
about its effectiveness depending on where one lives. It says nothing
about where the ones are located that they used to get the average 12
to 20 degree drop in temperature. They might be all in New Mexico,
Nevada, and Death Valley. They sure don't work in Maryland. The URL
looks dishonest to me.

We've used evaps for
years here in NM but our typical summers are quite dry (until the Monsoon
season and then the coolers are pretty worthless).
Cheers,
cc

Dave wrote:

Anyone have an experience with an evaporative air cooler, that they
can relate?

I live in Phoenix, and coolers are fine through about June, but once
the relative humidity exceeds 20% they become lousy. Here's a table
showing the best temperature you can expect from a cooler, depending
on the humidity and outdoor temperatu

www.swampy.net/humevap.html

Also coolers aren't necessarily cheaper to operate than newer air
conditioners ( 15 years old), and it was found that people who had
combination cooler-A/C units spent more on cooling than did people who
have only A/C.

Dave wrote:
....
I'm looking for an alternative to an air conditioning unit to lower
the temperature of a 260 sq.ft. room by about 10 degrees.

A 16'x16'x8' room with R20 insulation all round and a thermal conductance
of 768ft^2/R20 = 38.4 Btu/h-F would only need Q = 10x38.4 = 384 Btu/h of
net cooling to lower the room temp 10 F.

If it's Ta (F) outdoors with a wa humidity ratio and 80 F indoors with
wi = 0.012 pounds of water per pound of dry air (an efficient corner of
the ASHRAE comfort zone), evaporating P lb/h of water while ventilating
with C cfm of 0.075 lb/ft^3 outdoor air makes P = 60C0.075(0.012-wa) and
1000P = Q+(Ta-80)C. Dagget CA in August with Ta = 87.1 F and wa = 0.0077
makes P = 0.0194C and 1000P = 384+7.1C, so P = 0.61 lb/h and C = 31 cfm.

Fresh air might come from 2 vents with an 8' height difference. If 31 cfm
= 16.6Asqrt(8'x(87.1-80)) (an empirical chimney formula), A = 0.25 ft^2,
eg 6"x6" vents. Outdoor air with Pa = 29.921/(1+0.62198/wa) = 0.366"Hg,
and Pw = 0.566"Hg indoors and 0.61 = 0.1A(Pw-Pa) (an ASHRAE pool formula)
makes A = 30 ft^2, eg an 8'x8" diameter 2-sided porous shower curtain below
the upper vent with a 10 watt fountain pump moving 1 gpm from a sump with
a float valve up over the curtain whenever the room temp rises to 80 F.

Or maybe a 5' tall x 8" diameter nuclear bong cooler (see wiki :-)

20 PI=4*ATN(1)
30 AS=10'screen evap area (ft^2)
40 CW=2*8.33*60'water flow rate (lb/h)
50 TW(0)=70'initial water temp (F)
60 CA=665'inlet airflow (cfm)
70 FA=PI*(8/24)^2'duct free area (ft^2)
80 VA=CA/FA/88'air velocity (mph)
90 UA=2+VA/2'airfilm conductance (Btu/h-F-ft^2)
100 TA(0)=100'inlet air temp (F)
110 PA=.1*EXP(17.863-9621/(100+460))'air vapor pressure ("Hg)
120 W(0)=.62198/(29.921/PA-1)'inlet air humidity ratio
140 QTC=0:QTE=0'initialize total heatflows (Btu/h)
150 FOR S=0 TO 9'evap screen number (0 is first)
160 QC=(TW(S)-TA(S))*UA*AS'water-air convective heatflow (Btu/h)
170 QTC=QTC+QC'total convective heatflow (Btu/h)
180 PW=EXP(17.863-9621/(TW(S)+460))'water vapor pressure ("Hg)
190 PA=29.921/(1+.62198/W(S))'air vapor pressure ("Hg)
200 BOWEN=99.4*(PW-PA)/(TW(S)-TA(S))'Bowen's ratio ("Hg/F)
210 QE=QC*BOWEN'water-air evaporative heatflow (Btu/h)
220 QTE=QTE+QE'total evaporative heatflow (Btu/h)
230 W(S+1)=W(S)+QE/(60*CA*.075*1000)'hum rat leaving screen
240 TA(S+1)=TA(S)+QC/CA'exit screen air temp (F)
250 TW(S+1)=TW(S)-(QC+QE)/CW'exit screen water temp (F)
260 NEXT
270 TW(0)=TW(0)-(QTC+QTE)/CW'new water temp (F)
280 IF ABS(QTE-QTEL).01 THEN QTEL=QTE:GOTO 140
290 FOR S=0 TO 10
300 PRINT TW(S),TA(S)
310 NEXT S
320 PRINT QTE

water temp (F) air temp (F)

62.82701 100
62.68013 92.83129
62.66226 87.01672
62.68551 82.32003
62.71742 78.53357
62.74708 75.48347
62.77165 73.02729
62.7911 71.04951
62.80624 69.4569
62.81795 68.17434
62.82701 67.14138

21850.99 Btu/h

Nick

On Jul 31, 11:35 am, "James \"Cubby\" Culbertson"
wrote:
"Dave" wrote in message

oups.com...

Hello;

I realize this has nothing to do with repair, but the other alt.home.*
groups seem to either be near-dead and/or also inappropriate ...

Anyone have an experience with an evaporative air cooler, that they
can relate? An example would be theCoolAir4000 air cooler:

http://www.coolair4000.com/

I'm looking for an alternative to an air conditioning unit to lower
the temperature of a 260 sq.ft. room by about 10 degrees.

Thanks in advance.

Where do you live and what's your climate? If you have humidity, evap's
don't work. They are effective in dry climes (20% or less relative
humidity). I can't comment on the cooler you linked. We've used evaps for
years here in NM but our typical summers are quite dry (until the Monsoon
season and then the coolers are pretty worthless).
Cheers,
cc

I'm in Cincinnati, which can get pretty humid during the summer. But,
I have central A/C. I'm just looking to cool an upper floor bedroom
by about ten more degrees. I'm hoping the central A/C has dropped the
humidity enough to make the air cooler effective.

On Aug 1, 7:42 am, wrote:
Dave wrote:

...

I'm looking for an alternative to an air conditioning unit to lower
the temperature of a 260 sq.ft. room by about 10 degrees.

A 16'x16'x8' room with R20 insulation all round and a thermal conductance
of 768ft^2/R20 = 38.4 Btu/h-F would only need Q = 10x38.4 = 384 Btu/h of
net cooling to lower the room temp 10 F.

If it's Ta (F) outdoors with a wa humidity ratio and 80 F indoors with
wi = 0.012 pounds of water per pound of dry air (an efficient corner of
the ASHRAE comfort zone), evaporating P lb/h of water while ventilating
with C cfm of 0.075 lb/ft^3 outdoor air makes P = 60C0.075(0.012-wa) and
1000P = Q+(Ta-80)C. Dagget CA in August with Ta = 87.1 F and wa = 0.0077
makes P = 0.0194C and 1000P = 384+7.1C, so P = 0.61 lb/h and C = 31 cfm.

Fresh air might come from 2 vents with an 8' height difference. If 31 cfm
= 16.6Asqrt(8'x(87.1-80)) (an empirical chimney formula), A = 0.25 ft^2,
eg 6"x6" vents. Outdoor air with Pa = 29.921/(1+0.62198/wa) = 0.366"Hg,
and Pw = 0.566"Hg indoors and 0.61 = 0.1A(Pw-Pa) (an ASHRAE pool formula)
makes A = 30 ft^2, eg an 8'x8" diameter 2-sided porous shower curtain below
the upper vent with a 10 watt fountain pump moving 1 gpm from a sump with
a float valve up over the curtain whenever the room temp rises to 80 F.

Or maybe a 5' tall x 8" diameter nuclear bong cooler (see wiki :-)

20 PI=4*ATN(1)
30 AS=10'screen evap area (ft^2)
40 CW=2*8.33*60'water flow rate (lb/h)
50 TW(0)=70'initial water temp (F)
60 CA=665'inlet airflow (cfm)
70 FA=PI*(8/24)^2'duct free area (ft^2)
80 VA=CA/FA/88'air velocity (mph)
90 UA=2+VA/2'airfilm conductance (Btu/h-F-ft^2)
100 TA(0)=100'inlet air temp (F)
110 PA=.1*EXP(17.863-9621/(100+460))'air vapor pressure ("Hg)
120 W(0)=.62198/(29.921/PA-1)'inlet air humidity ratio
140 QTC=0:QTE=0'initialize total heatflows (Btu/h)
150 FOR S=0 TO 9'evap screen number (0 is first)
160 QC=(TW(S)-TA(S))*UA*AS'water-air convective heatflow (Btu/h)
170 QTC=QTC+QC'total convective heatflow (Btu/h)
180 PW=EXP(17.863-9621/(TW(S)+460))'water vapor pressure ("Hg)
190 PA=29.921/(1+.62198/W(S))'air vapor pressure ("Hg)
200 BOWEN=99.4*(PW-PA)/(TW(S)-TA(S))'Bowen's ratio ("Hg/F)
210 QE=QC*BOWEN'water-air evaporative heatflow (Btu/h)
220 QTE=QTE+QE'total evaporative heatflow (Btu/h)
230 W(S+1)=W(S)+QE/(60*CA*.075*1000)'hum rat leaving screen
240 TA(S+1)=TA(S)+QC/CA'exit screen air temp (F)
250 TW(S+1)=TW(S)-(QC+QE)/CW'exit screen water temp (F)
260 NEXT
270 TW(0)=TW(0)-(QTC+QTE)/CW'new water temp (F)
280 IF ABS(QTE-QTEL).01 THEN QTEL=QTE:GOTO 140
290 FOR S=0 TO 10
300 PRINT TW(S),TA(S)
310 NEXT S
320 PRINT QTE

water temp (F) air temp (F)

62.82701 100
62.68013 92.83129
62.66226 87.01672
62.68551 82.32003
62.71742 78.53357
62.74708 75.48347
62.77165 73.02729
62.7911 71.04951
62.80624 69.4569
62.81795 68.17434
62.82701 67.14138

21850.99 Btu/h

Nick

Thanks Nick. It's a long time since I've seen a BASIC program
listing. I shouldn't have thrown out that Commodore VIC-20.

;-)

"Q. How effective is the evaporative cooling?
A. On the average, the CoolAir 4000 can lower the temperature
12-20 degrees. A great deal depends on the humidity in the air.
Evaporative coolers work best when outside humidity is below 50%.
"

From the ad page. Read with attention to detail, they hide the
details.


--

Christopher A. Young
You can't shout down a troll.
You have to starve them.
..

"mm" wrote in message
...
:
: Itt is worth noting that afaict, the ad for that one says
nothing
: about its effectiveness depending on where one lives. It says
nothing
: about where the ones are located that they used to get the
average 12
: to 20 degree drop in temperature. They might be all in New
Mexico,
: Nevada, and Death Valley. They sure don't work in Maryland.
The URL
: looks dishonest to me.
:

Even with central AC, I really doubt that evaporative mister
thing is going to do much good. I'd suggest looking at air flow
from the central AC, or get a window AC.

--

Christopher A. Young
You can't shout down a troll.
You have to starve them.
..

"Dave" wrote in message
ups.com...
: I'm in Cincinnati, which can get pretty humid during the
summer. But,
: I have central A/C. I'm just looking to cool an upper floor
bedroom
: by about ten more degrees. I'm hoping the central A/C has
dropped the
: humidity enough to make the air cooler effective.
:

On Thu, 2 Aug 2007 10:59:06 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

"Q. How effective is the evaporative cooling?
A. On the average, the CoolAir 4000 can lower the temperature
12-20 degrees. A great deal depends on the humidity in the air.
Evaporative coolers work best when outside humidity is below 50%.
"

Thank you. I missed that and it's in print the same size as the other
questions.

Of course it is artfully phrased. "Best when ...below 50%".
Apparently it does really really best when it is below 16 percent, but
we won't discuss the area between 16 and 49! Why not say "Works
best when.... below 90%"

From the ad page. Read with attention to detail, they hide the
details.


--

Christopher A. Young
You can't shout down a troll.
You have to starve them.
.

"mm" wrote in message
.. .
:
: Itt is worth noting that afaict, the ad for that one says
nothing
: about its effectiveness depending on where one lives. It says
nothing
: about where the ones are located that they used to get the
average 12
: to 20 degree drop in temperature. They might be all in New
Mexico,
: Nevada, and Death Valley. They sure don't work in Maryland.
The URL
: looks dishonest to me.
:

On Wed, 01 Aug 2007 15:31:55 -0700, Dave
wrote:


I'm in Cincinnati, which can get pretty humid during the summer. But,
I have central A/C. I'm just looking to cool an upper floor bedroom
by about ten more degrees. I'm hoping the central A/C has dropped the
humidity enough to make the air cooler effective.

I get confused when things get too complicated, but lets assume the AC
could make the humidity in the house 15% or less. But then this swamp
cooler would cool the temp further by adding humidity, which would get
down to the first floor** within a day or less, and which the AC would
have to work to remove.

Wouldn't this be just as bad as making spaghetti or taking a hot
steamy shower in a house with AC? Don't people avoid those things?
Because they add substantial costs to running the AC?

**and the second floor is air conditioned too,

On Aug 1, 4:31 pm, Dave wrote:
On Jul 31, 11:35 am, "James \"Cubby\" Culbertson"





wrote:
"Dave" wrote in message

roups.com...

Hello;

I realize this has nothing to do with repair, but the other alt.home.*
groups seem to either be near-dead and/or also inappropriate ...

Anyone have an experience with an evaporative air cooler, that they
can relate? An example would be theCoolAir4000 air cooler:

http://www.coolair4000.com/

I'm looking for an alternative to an air conditioning unit to lower
the temperature of a 260 sq.ft. room by about 10 degrees.

Thanks in advance.

Where do you live and what's your climate? If you have humidity, evap's
don't work. They are effective in dry climes (20% or less relative
humidity). I can't comment on the cooler you linked. We've used evaps for
years here in NM but our typical summers are quite dry (until the Monsoon
season and then the coolers are pretty worthless).
Cheers,
cc

I'm in Cincinnati, which can get pretty humid during the summer. But,
I have central A/C. I'm just looking to cool an upper floor bedroom
by about ten more degrees. I'm hoping the central A/C has dropped the
humidity enough to make the air cooler effective.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Naw, too humid. Here in the Denver area they work pretty good. Even
usable when the humidity gets up to 30% as long as they are moving a
lot of air. Outside temp above 90 and the air coming in will be in
the low 70s. When our temperatures get near 100 the humidity may be
below 10%. And here it always gets cool enough at night that only a
fan is needed.

On Aug 2, 10:59 am, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
"Q. How effective is the evaporative cooling?
A. On the average, the CoolAir 4000 can lower the temperature
12-20 degrees. A great deal depends on the humidity in the air.
Evaporative coolers work best when outside humidity is below 50%.
"

From the ad page. Read with attention to detail, they hide the
details.

I saw this ... I believe that with my central A/C, the room humidity
is less than 50%, so I was hoping ...

On Aug 2, 11:00 am, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
Even with central AC, I really doubt that evaporative mister
thing is going to do much good. I'd suggest looking at air flow
from the central AC, or get a window AC.

We had someone look at the air flow situation once, and from the work
he said would be necessary to improve things, it sounded like it would
be very expensive.

Regarding a window AC unit, I bet the other husbands out there will
understand this: my wife doesn't like them because she thinks they're
ugly. ;-)

(But after reading these posts about air coolers, I think I'm going to
make more of an effort to change her mind.)

Thanks all .....

"mm" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 09:35:46 -0600, "James \"Cubby\" Culbertson"
wrote:


"Dave" wrote in message
groups.com...
Hello;

I realize this has nothing to do with repair, but the other alt.home.*
groups seem to either be near-dead and/or also inappropriate ...

Anyone have an experience with an evaporative air cooler, that they
can relate? An example would be the CoolAir 4000 air cooler:

http://www.coolair4000.com/

I'm looking for an alternative to an air conditioning unit to lower
the temperature of a 260 sq.ft. room by about 10 degrees.

Thanks in advance.


Where do you live and what's your climate? If you have humidity, evap's
don't work. They are effective in dry climes (20% or less relative
humidity). I can't comment on the cooler you linked.

Itt is worth noting that afaict, the ad for that one says nothing
about its effectiveness depending on where one lives. It says nothing
about where the ones are located that they used to get the average 12
to 20 degree drop in temperature. They might be all in New Mexico,
Nevada, and Death Valley. They sure don't work in Maryland. The URL
looks dishonest to me.

We've used evaps for
years here in NM but our typical summers are quite dry (until the Monsoon
season and then the coolers are pretty worthless).
Cheers,

I live in Las Vegas, Nevada, and can give you some first hand information.
Before refrigeration, all we had was swamp coolers. It was better than
being outside in the heat, and at night, temperatures were good for
sleeping. That said, they have lots of limitations. When it's really hot,
they will cool things down, but not like refrigeration. When it's humid,
they hardly feel like they work at all. They put so much humidity in the
air that after a time, the house smells like one in South Louisiana. Damp
and musty.

We still use swampers for a few months a year. Mostly in the spring and
fall when we only want to drop the temps a little. Nothing works very well
in 115 degree heat. Even a 20 degree drop leaves you at 95 inside. And
swampers do not work well at all in humid weather, as we are having now in
Vegas during our monsoon season. 40-60% humidity ranges.

Swampers help. But, I think that they do the best for the people who sell
them, and claim that they will do all sorts of things they won't. And since
the principle they work on is temperature difference created by water
evaporation, some of the claims made in humid areas are laughable. Even if
you get one, and it works, it won't work all the time.

Steve.

On Aug 3, 3:35 pm, Dave wrote:
On Aug 2, 10:59 am, "Stormin Mormon"
A. On the average, the CoolAir 4000 can lower the temperature
12-20 degrees. A great deal depends on the humidity in the air.
Evaporative coolers work best when outside humidity is below 50%.

I saw this ... I believe that with my central A/C, the room humidity
is less than 50%, so I was hoping ...

It isn't going to stay below 50% once you start using the evap cooler
then.

On Fri, 3 Aug 2007 18:08:05 -0600, "SteveB"
wrote:



I live in Las Vegas, Nevada, and can give you some first hand information.

I have a llittle experience with swamp coolers in Las Vegas, also.

Before refrigeration, all we had was swamp coolers. It was better than
being outside in the heat, and at night, temperatures were good for
sleeping. That said, they have lots of limitations. When it's really hot,
they will cool things down, but not like refrigeration. When it's humid,
they hardly feel like they work at all. They put so much humidity in the
air that after a time, the house smells like one in South Louisiana. Damp
and musty.

My friend from San Diego said he could win at Blackjack, by playing a
system. I started studying the system, but then he wanted to leave
Chicago a week early and I had barely gotten started trying to
memorize it. Three of us drove all day and night and got to Las
Vegas in the middle of the night.

We stayed in one room at the hotel of his choice the next day.

Then they laft (the third guy was another college friend of Dick's ,
going to visit him in San Diego.

Since I was there to make money, and not to spend it, I went looking
for a cheap hotel. There was supposed to be one with AC, but I didn't
know where.

I found one with air cooling, and I figured that would be fine because
as everone knew, it gets cold in the desert at night. During the day
I figured I would be at the casino.

I think I paid for a week. I know I was in LV for 7 or 8 days and
left on July 5.

Boy, was it hot at night. The cooler was in the hall, only 3 feet
from my room's door, which I left open, but the fan was blowing down
the hall and my door was at a right angle. It might have been cool in
the hall, but it wasn't in my room. (The hotel was built as a large
house iirc.)

By the second or third night, I was sleeping in the back yard.
Unfortunately, the yard had no grass, only gravel. I sleep on my
belly so I put a towel under my face but it really wasn't comfortable.

Because I never got a good nights sleep, I wasn't able to memorize the
3 ten by ten arrays of numbers that I needed for the system (counting
tens) so I didn't win money. Like most, I lost slowly. Playing 3 or
4 hours a day for 7 days, on small bet tables, I lost about 40
dollars. 1967 or 1969. Probably the first. But that's not much
money, and I never planned to live on gambling, so I wasn't unhappy.

I did go to the fireworks July 4, in a residential n'hood. On the way
to the fireworks I walked past a public school and though seriously
about sleeping on the grass there. I don't remember why I didn't. I
guess I still worried too much about the police in those days. Within
a couple years, or days, I realized they would never do anything to me
for just sleeping.

Earlier I went on the tour of the Mint Casino, where they explain how
to play craps, and show you a bit of how they watch from above the
ceiling. I asked this guy if he was in the line for the tour, and he
was, and we went on the tour together, and then to a drawing he was
entered in across the street, and then he invited me to come out to
dinner later in the week. He had his own simple apartment on the
strip, behind the Flamingo Casino, and we met at the pool there. He
took me out to dinner on one of those all you can eat coupons at
another casino. During dinner he told me I was a great
conversationalist. After dinner he propositioned me. He offered me
free room and board and offered to rent a car that I could use to
drive him around, or just myself the other half of the time. When I
didn't bite, he offerred me an allowance, and to pay off the 40
dollars I had lost. (Of course I'd already paid it, but I guess he
meant he would give me 40 dollars.)

I asked "What would this entail?" and although his answer wasn't
vulgar by Jay Leno's current standards, it's too vulgar for me to
write.

But now it was 11PM and the big dinner made me sleepy, and I had made
the mistake of leaving my swimming suit in his apartment. (My cheap
hotel had no swimming pool, and I was too law abiding in those days to
swim in the Mint's rooftop pool, where they did check room numbers it
seemed. I was hoping to swim in the Flamingo pool, where I think they
knew him, but certainly I could have in his apartment pool.

So walking the 200 yards back to his apartment, I asked if I could
stay there no strings attached. He said yes. He said I should sleep
in his bed, but I said the couch would be fine. He said that it would
be better for me to sleep in his bed because then he would know that I
was on guard and he would be especially careful not to do anything I
wouldn't like. I'm very smart, 1540 on the SATs, but consistently
slow-witted, and as ridiculous as this last remark was, I didn't
notice.

So he gave me a sheet and maybe a blanket and I went to sleep on the
sofa, on my back as I do when I have to wake up soon. Not sure when,
maybe 30 or 60 minutes later, I wake up to the feel of someone
tickling me through my underpants. "What an idiot, I am" I thought to
myself, without moving a bit or saying a word. "We're going to have a
confrontation. He's going to be embarrassed, and he's going to kill
me.** So what should I do?"

I just sat up without saying anything. He was kneeling on the floor
by the sofa and he backed up as fast as he could, ending in a cheap
padded chair with arms that was part of his living furniture, but only
3 feet away (since it was all in a corner of the living room). He was
scared, and I liked that.

But I still didn't preclude the notion that he would get tired being
scared and turn into the aggreessor again. Once I don't trust
someone, I don't trust anything about him. I had had girls stay at my
apartment, and when the agreement, spoken or not, was that I wouldn't
touch her, I didn't. How hard is that?

**Without any special evidence, I've long thought that one of the
reason women rape victims get murdered at least some of the time, is
they look emotionally crushed afterwards and the rapist is embarrassed
and to make the problem go away, he kills her. I haven't looked for
info on this, wouldn't know how, and if I were in the field, I
wouldn't know how to gather info on this from real victims.


But this guy's story was funny. He said he thought I might be cold
(because of the AC) and he was trying to wake me to ask if I wanted a
blanket, or a second blanket. Even slow-witted me knew that was a
lie. And even if I were cold, I'd rather stay asleep cold than have
to wake up to get a blanket.

In order to avoid a confrontation, I told him I was going back to
sleep and after he went to his room, I went to the bathroom and got
dressed, flushing the toilet so he wouldn't hear my belt jingling on
the tile.

I had his number and I should have called him to tell him how lucky he
was that I didn't beat him up. It took far far more to get me angry
in the old days, at least to get me angry for more than 5 minutes. He
did deserved to be beat up, so he wouldn't lie to someone else.

Oh yeah, one of the reasons I was willing to stay there was to finally
get a good nights sleep, so I could finally memorize those tables and
win at blackjack. But again I didn't get a good night's sleep. I was
doubly stupid if I didn't get 9 hours of sleep each night. I think I
was leaving the next morning, and only had a couple more hours to
gamble then.

Maybe tomorrow I will tell you how I got back to Chicago.





We still use swampers for a few months a year. Mostly in the spring and
fall when we only want to drop the temps a little. Nothing works very well
in 115 degree heat. Even a 20 degree drop leaves you at 95 inside. And
swampers do not work well at all in humid weather, as we are having now in
Vegas during our monsoon season. 40-60% humidity ranges.

Swampers help. But, I think that they do the best for the people who sell
them, and claim that they will do all sorts of things they won't. And since
the principle they work on is temperature difference created by water
evaporation, some of the claims made in humid areas are laughable. Even if
you get one, and it works, it won't work all the time.

Steve.

On Aug 3, 8:42 pm, Nexus7 wrote:
On Aug 3, 3:35 pm, Dave wrote:

On Aug 2, 10:59 am, "Stormin Mormon"
A. On the average, the CoolAir 4000 can lower the temperature
12-20 degrees. A great deal depends on the humidity in the air.
Evaporative coolers work best when outside humidity is below 50%.

I saw this ... I believe that with my central A/C, the room humidity
is less than 50%, so I was hoping ...

It isn't going to stay below 50% once you start using the evap cooler
then.

Hmm ... makes sense. Also reminds me of some comedian's bit, maybe
Steve Wright's, where he talks about putting a humidifier and a
dehumidifier in the same room and letting them battle it out. (Though
in my case the dehumdifier isn't in the same room. ;-) thanks.

On Aug 4, 7:07 am, Dave wrote:
On Aug 3, 8:42 pm, Nexus7 wrote:

On Aug 3, 3:35 pm, Dave wrote:

On Aug 2, 10:59 am, "Stormin Mormon"
A. On the average, the CoolAir 4000 can lower the temperature
12-20 degrees. A great deal depends on the humidity in the air.
Evaporative coolers work best when outside humidity is below 50%.

I saw this ... I believe that with my central A/C, the room humidity
is less than 50%, so I was hoping ...

It isn't going to stay below 50% once you start using the evap cooler
then.

Hmm ... makes sense. Also reminds me of some comedian's bit, maybe
Steve Wright's, where he talks about putting a humidifier and a
dehumidifier in the same room and letting them battle it out. (Though
in my case the dehumdifier isn't in the same room. ;-) thanks.

A small cooler such as that Coolair used along with a refrigeration
unit is just going to make the refrigeration unit work harder. The
refrigeration has to remove that excess moisture from the air.

The only way a evaporative cooler will work properly is to use lots of
dry outside air. To be useful in very hot temperatures it should be
capable of exchangine all the air in the house in three minutes.
When the humidity is in the 10% and temperature about 90 much less air
movement is needed. Most coolers have two or three speeds. And they
require open windows. They work great for cooling kitchens in a dry
climate. But when the outside humidty climbs comfort level drops in
comparison to refrigeration..

Some of you guys posted about how much an evaporative cooler can drop
air temperature. All answers mentioned incoming air humidity is a key
factor, that's right!
There is something called cooling efficiency, calculated by the
equation:
eff = (DBT1-DBT2)/(DBT1-WBT1)
where DBT is dry bulb temperature and WBT is wet bulb temperature ; 1
is measured at entry of the device and 2 is at the outlet. The wet-
bulb temperature is related with Relative Humidity, some equation sets
or psychrometric charts are needed to find it from Humidity-
temperature data.
What I would like to say is that each type of evaporative cooler has a
typical efficiency. efficiencies from 30% to 90% were found on my lab.
The efficiency does not change much with incoming air humidity
Another interesting point is about the ASHRAE comfort zone mentioned
by Nick. For Evaporative coolers designes must consider the "Modified
comfort zone", proposed by the Eveporative Cooling Institute/ASHRAE;
that I found on this World Bank publication; see the link below

http://www.evapcooling.org/resources.htm

EPA recommends very carefull maintenance in humidifiers to prevent
health problems. People should know evaporative coolers are
humidifiers. By the other hand, dry air irritates throat and increases
incidence of some respiratory illnesses.
I recommend aircooles without pads; beacuse these tend to grow
microorganisms inside the porous wetted media.


Tony
Airaquality

On Aug 4, 10:55 am, Rich256 wrote:
On Aug 4, 7:07 am, Dave wrote:





On Aug 3, 8:42 pm, Nexus7 wrote:

On Aug 3, 3:35 pm, Dave wrote:

On Aug 2, 10:59 am, "Stormin Mormon"
A. On the average, the CoolAir 4000 can lower the temperature
12-20 degrees. A great deal depends on the humidity in the air.
Evaporative coolers work best when outside humidity is below 50%.

I saw this ... I believe that with my central A/C, the room humidity
is less than 50%, so I was hoping ...

It isn't going to stay below 50% once you start using the evap cooler
then.

Hmm ... makes sense. Also reminds me of some comedian's bit, maybe
Steve Wright's, where he talks about putting a humidifier and a
dehumidifier in the same room and letting them battle it out. (Though
in my case the dehumdifier isn't in the same room. ;-) thanks.

A small cooler such as that Coolair used along with a refrigeration
unit is just going to make the refrigeration unit work harder. The
refrigeration has to remove that excess moisture from the air.

The only way a evaporative cooler will work properly is to use lots of
dry outside air. To be useful in very hot temperatures it should be
capable of exchangine all the air in the house in three minutes.
When the humidity is in the 10% and temperature about 90 much less air
movement is needed. Most coolers have two or three speeds. And they
require open windows. They work great for cooling kitchens in a dry
climate. But when the outside humidty climbs comfort level drops in
comparison to refrigeration..- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -