Looking to replace my current Hotpoint refrigerator if I can't easily
do a DIY repair - i.e. if it isn't just a matter of replacing an
internal fan - freezer works fine, refrigerator section having
problems. Or maybe even if I can repair it. I'm not in immediate
desperation, I'm using an old shorty "student" model that will tide me
over but will want to get the big one fixed or replaced in the near
future.

I've read assertions that "new refrigerators are more efficient".
Looking through the archives I see some debate as to whether this is
true.

How are they more efficient? How much more efficient? With a new 18
cu. ft. no-frills top-freezer Hotpoint -vs- a 1988 no-frills top-
freezer Hotpoint how much of a difference am I likely to see in the
monthly electric bill? For example, if I were to find the problem with
my old one is relatively easy to remedy and manage to squeeze a few
more years of service out of it, how much less would I be spending
over those same years on a newer model if in fact it's even true? I
see these tags inside the floor models with a measure of "cost per
year" and comparative energy consumption, but have no idea if they're
remotely realistic, or are more like the old EPA gas-mileage ratings
that in no way reflected reality.

Where do you find the straight story on dependability? Is Consumer
Reports really the gospel?How does anyone do a meaningful reliability
test on an item with so many models and where it might take years to
prove itself a "lemon" under real-world daily use. I wonder if brand
name is a reliable indicator since manufacturing/corporate issues can
change over time, so a brand that was possibly once regarded as great
becomes crap. Further, I don't see much concensus regarding what
brands are good/bad. I'm more interested in rock-solid dependability
and longevity than a lot of features. I've never even had an ice-
maker. Still using plastic ice-cube trays.

How would you find out the nitty-gritty on issues like where the
compressor for various models come from and what makes it great or
crap?

What's a good resource to learn DIY refrigerator diagnosis and
repair?

Thanks.

Check the "Energy Star" web site.

"Doc" wrote in message
ups.com...
Looking to replace my current Hotpoint refrigerator if I can't easily
do a DIY repair - i.e. if it isn't just a matter of replacing an
internal fan - freezer works fine, refrigerator section having
problems. Or maybe even if I can repair it. I'm not in immediate
desperation, I'm using an old shorty "student" model that will tide me
over but will want to get the big one fixed or replaced in the near
future.

I've read assertions that "new refrigerators are more efficient".
Looking through the archives I see some debate as to whether this is
true.

How are they more efficient? How much more efficient? With a new 18
cu. ft. no-frills top-freezer Hotpoint -vs- a 1988 no-frills top-
freezer Hotpoint how much of a difference am I likely to see in the
monthly electric bill? For example, if I were to find the problem with
my old one is relatively easy to remedy and manage to squeeze a few
more years of service out of it, how much less would I be spending
over those same years on a newer model if in fact it's even true? I
see these tags inside the floor models with a measure of "cost per
year" and comparative energy consumption, but have no idea if they're
remotely realistic, or are more like the old EPA gas-mileage ratings
that in no way reflected reality.

Where do you find the straight story on dependability? Is Consumer
Reports really the gospel?How does anyone do a meaningful reliability
test on an item with so many models and where it might take years to
prove itself a "lemon" under real-world daily use. I wonder if brand
name is a reliable indicator since manufacturing/corporate issues can
change over time, so a brand that was possibly once regarded as great
becomes crap. Further, I don't see much concensus regarding what
brands are good/bad. I'm more interested in rock-solid dependability
and longevity than a lot of features. I've never even had an ice-
maker. Still using plastic ice-cube trays.

How would you find out the nitty-gritty on issues like where the
compressor for various models come from and what makes it great or
crap?

What's a good resource to learn DIY refrigerator diagnosis and
repair?

Thanks.

On Jul 9, 4:40 am, "Jay Stootzmann" wrote:
Check the "Energy Star" web site.

"Doc" wrote in message

ups.com...



Looking to replace my current Hotpoint refrigerator if I can't easily
do a DIY repair - i.e. if it isn't just a matter of replacing an
internal fan - freezer works fine, refrigerator section having
problems. Or maybe even if I can repair it. I'm not in immediate
desperation, I'm using an old shorty "student" model that will tide me
over but will want to get the big one fixed or replaced in the near
future.

I've read assertions that "new refrigerators are more efficient".
Looking through the archives I see some debate as to whether this is
true.

How are they more efficient? How much more efficient? With a new 18
cu. ft. no-frills top-freezer Hotpoint -vs- a 1988 no-frills top-
freezer Hotpoint how much of a difference am I likely to see in the
monthly electric bill? For example, if I were to find the problem with
my old one is relatively easy to remedy and manage to squeeze a few
more years of service out of it, how much less would I be spending
over those same years on a newer model if in fact it's even true? I
see these tags inside the floor models with a measure of "cost per
year" and comparative energy consumption, but have no idea if they're
remotely realistic, or are more like the old EPA gas-mileage ratings
that in no way reflected reality.

Where do you find the straight story on dependability? Is Consumer
Reports really the gospel?How does anyone do a meaningful reliability
test on an item with so many models and where it might take years to
prove itself a "lemon" under real-world daily use. I wonder if brand
name is a reliable indicator since manufacturing/corporate issues can
change over time, so a brand that was possibly once regarded as great
becomes crap. Further, I don't see much concensus regarding what
brands are good/bad. I'm more interested in rock-solid dependability
and longevity than a lot of features. I've never even had an ice-
maker. Still using plastic ice-cube trays.

How would you find out the nitty-gritty on issues like where the
compressor for various models come from and what makes it great or
crap?

What's a good resource to learn DIY refrigerator diagnosis and
repair?

Thanks.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You can maybe save 75% on operating costs vs your old unit. Shop by
the Yellow Energy usage tag. a few years ago Sears were the most
efficient, my 19.5cuft unit uses apx $4.50 a month in electric
verified with a Kill A Watt meter, www.EnergyStar.com gives full
ratings of usage, it may take a while to find the page but its there.
You should buy a Kill A Watt meter and see what your old unit uses. I
would not repair the old one.

What's a good resource to learn DIY refrigerator diagnosis and
repair?

Thanks.


Try he

http://www.refrigeration-repair-tips.com/

"Doc" wrote in message
ups.com...
Looking to replace my current Hotpoint refrigerator if I can't easily
do a DIY repair - i.e. if it isn't just a matter of replacing an
internal fan - freezer works fine, refrigerator section having
problems. Or maybe even if I can repair it. I'm not in immediate
desperation, I'm using an old shorty "student" model that will tide me
over but will want to get the big one fixed or replaced in the near
future.

I've read assertions that "new refrigerators are more efficient".
Looking through the archives I see some debate as to whether this is
true.

How are they more efficient? How much more efficient? With a new 18
cu. ft. no-frills top-freezer Hotpoint -vs- a 1988 no-frills top-
freezer Hotpoint how much of a difference am I likely to see in the
monthly electric bill? For example, if I were to find the problem with
my old one is relatively easy to remedy and manage to squeeze a few
more years of service out of it, how much less would I be spending
over those same years on a newer model if in fact it's even true? I
see these tags inside the floor models with a measure of "cost per
year" and comparative energy consumption, but have no idea if they're
remotely realistic, or are more like the old EPA gas-mileage ratings
that in no way reflected reality.

Energy efficiency ratings, like EPA mileage estimates, are just that -
estimates. EPA mileage estimates assume certain things about they way the
car is driven, the relative proportions of city and highway miles, and
driving conditions (hilly country or flat, ambient temperatures, etc.). If
your personal situation agrees with those assumptions, your mileage will
pretty much agree with the estimates; if your situation doesn't, it won't.
Even if your mileage doesn't agree with the estimates, the presumption is
that the relative ranking will still hold true - a car rated at 30 mpg will
get better mileage than one rated 20 mpg, even if you don't get 30 mpg on
the first car.

I'd tend to agree that the EPA estimates are somewhat inaccurate - in my
experience over the last 15 years or so, they're too LOW by a factor of ten
to twenty percent.

For refrigerators, the assumptions include things like the ambient
temperature, seasonal variations in temperature and humidity, whether or not
anti-sweat heaters are operational, how often the door is opened, and the
settings for the compartment temperature controls. The testing and
calculation are technical and complex - you can read the regulation at
http://www.epa.gov/fedrgstr/EPA-GENE...-09/g22379.htm
(and much good may it do you). The end result is an estimate intended to
approximate how much electricity the appliance can reasonably be expected to
consume in a typical residential setting. Almost certainly, your actual
consumption will be different from that on the label, but again, the
presumption is that the relative rankings will be preserved under almost all
conditions.

A current energy star refrigerator uses approximately 40% less energy than a
conventional refrigerator sold in 2001 (as determined by these tests). In
2005, the most efficient refrigerator-freezer in the class you're talking
about was an 18.8 cubic foot Kenmore top mount with automatic defrost at
387 kWh/yr, again according to these tests. As expected, side by side
models use more electricity, and interestingly, bottom mount models also use
more electricity.

Is this rating realistic? If you keep the thing in a garage in Florida, or
for that matter an un-air-conditioned kitchen in Florida, probably not. I'm
all for healthy skepticism, but this stuff is fact based science, not
political opinion. If you buy a refrigerator rated at 600 kWh/yr instead of
one rated at 387 kWh/yr, regardless of what the actual electrical
consumption turns out to be, it's going to cost you more to run than if you
had bought the better rated model.

Where do you find the straight story on dependability? Is Consumer
Reports really the gospel?How does anyone do a meaningful reliability
test on an item with so many models and where it might take years to
prove itself a "lemon" under real-world daily use.

If the thing lasts for years, I wonder how it can be considered a lemon?

I wonder if brand
name is a reliable indicator since manufacturing/corporate issues can
change over time, so a brand that was possibly once regarded as great
becomes crap.

If you're going to adopt this sort of perspective, it's impossible to assess
dependability. A company's track record is apparently meaningless, since
this year, the year you decide to buy a new frige, they could have decided
to chuck a half century's worth of sound practice in favor of maximizing
this year's profit by producing something cheap that will fall apart and
charging all the traffic will bear for it. The only way to tell is to buy
one and wait a few decades to see if it's still working.

Actually, by this kind of standard, your current appliance is a piece of
crap - it's lasted only 19 years. The fridge I had in my college apartment
in the 1970's was manufactured in in the 1930's and never needed a repair.
It was probably still chugging away a decade later when the building burned
to the ground.

One final word on the efficiency of new vs older refrigerators. My parents
had the same refrigerator for something like 20 years - all the time I was
growing up in their house. They finally bought a new one, and some long
period of time after that, replaced it with a newer model. About five years
after buying the last one, my Dad had the electric company in to do an
energy audit of their house. They GAVE him a new fridge, saying that the
efficiency had improved in those five years enough to make it worth their
while to replace it at no cost to him. I suppose you could be real cynical
and say maybe the new fridge they gave him used more electricity than the
old one, but I don't believe it for a second. If you're a senior citizen
and live in Massachusetts, maybe you don't have to actually buy a new
fridge. And if it's good enough for the electric company, it's good enough
for me.

Further, I don't see much concensus regarding what
brands are good/bad. I'm more interested in rock-solid dependability
and longevity than a lot of features. I've never even had an ice-
maker. Still using plastic ice-cube trays.

How would you find out the nitty-gritty on issues like where the
compressor for various models come from and what makes it great or
crap?

What's a good resource to learn DIY refrigerator diagnosis and
repair?

Thanks.

ransley in
ps.com:

On Jul 9, 4:40 am, "Jay Stootzmann" wrote:
Check the "Energy Star" web site.

"Doc" wrote in message

ups.com...



Looking to replace my current Hotpoint refrigerator if I can't easily
do a DIY repair - i.e. if it isn't just a matter of replacing an
internal fan - freezer works fine, refrigerator section having
problems. Or maybe even if I can repair it. I'm not in immediate
desperation, I'm using an old shorty "student" model that will tide me
over but will want to get the big one fixed or replaced in the near
future.

I've read assertions that "new refrigerators are more efficient".
Looking through the archives I see some debate as to whether this is
true.

How are they more efficient? How much more efficient? With a new 18
cu. ft. no-frills top-freezer Hotpoint -vs- a 1988 no-frills top-
freezer Hotpoint how much of a difference am I likely to see in the
monthly electric bill? For example, if I were to find the problem with
my old one is relatively easy to remedy and manage to squeeze a few
more years of service out of it, how much less would I be spending
over those same years on a newer model if in fact it's even true?

buy used and hope that the fridge wasn't the jeffrey dahmer or edward teller fan club's
old fridge.

see these tags inside the floor models with a measure of "cost per
year" and comparative energy consumption, but have no idea if they're
remotely realistic, or are more like the old EPA gas-mileage ratings
that in no way reflected reality.

yeah, like those tv ads, "filmed on a closed circuit by professional children. please
keep adults away from this car and drink responsibly"

Where do you find the straight story on dependability? Is Consumer
Reports really the gospel?How does anyone do a meaningful reliability
test on an item with so many models and where it might take years to
prove itself a "lemon" under real-world daily use. I wonder if brand
name is a reliable indicator since manufacturing/corporate issues can
change over time, so a brand that was possibly once regarded as great
becomes crap. Further, I don't see much concensus regarding what
brands are good/bad. I'm more interested in rock-solid dependability
and longevity than a lot of features. I've never even had an ice-
maker. Still using plastic ice-cube trays.

even when hardly ever used, icemakers die in a few years. funny thing is well into the
80's even the plastic on the outside looked like the 80's icemakers. i imagine
icemaker guts in new fridges are the same old 80's garbage.

i don't use ice.

How would you find out the nitty-gritty on issues like where the
compressor for various models come from and what makes it great or
crap?

What's a good resource to learn DIY refrigerator diagnosis and repair?

imLIMITEDe, it's either refrigeration which i've never considered messing with, or it's
easy stuff (of which weirdest is only the defrost timer. the rest is obvious).

moving the fridge will break your back. so maybe the largest fridge
replacement expense is the medical bills :-)

no, actually i remove the innards and doors, and roll fridges strapped to hand truck on
shallow ramps out the door.


You can maybe save 75% on operating costs vs your old unit. Shop by
the Yellow Energy usage tag. a few years ago Sears were the most
efficient, my 19.5cuft unit uses apx $4.50 a month in electric
verified with a Kill A Watt meter, www.EnergyStar.com gives full
ratings of usage, it may take a while to find the page but its there.
You should buy a Kill A Watt meter and see what your old unit uses. I
would not repair the old one.

in ca, utility(?) issues a list, which i saw a few years ago. $ energy use of 8 year old
fridge was almost as good as new fridge. IIRC, even if you had a 15 year old fridge,
purchase cost of new fridge wasn't justifiable if repair of 15 yearold was more than
minor. (a pile of obnoxious minor repairs equals a bigger repair. examples: tearing
gaskets on both doors, bubbly rust where gasket "seals".) in my case, i was
comparing the existing 80's fridge (too damaged to repair) to a low mile (hardly even
"dirty") $125 4 year old fridge. i was only curious about running costs because the
benefit of the 4 year old fridge was undeniable :-)

either new or old fridge might be better than the other, if one fridge incurs terrible
ordeal to delint the coils and fan, etc.

the fat doors on newer fridges seem convenient, but are pigs.

If your freezer is working and not fridge....often
there is a vent that leads from your freezer to
fridge..usually located in back, on side of freezer..
if you block that vent with something,
that is in your freezer, then fridge part will
work very poorly...

check it out....

hope helps...have fun....sno

" wrote:

ransley in
ps.com:

On Jul 9, 4:40 am, "Jay Stootzmann" wrote:
Check the "Energy Star" web site.

"Doc" wrote in message

ups.com...



Looking to replace my current Hotpoint refrigerator if I can't easily
do a DIY repair - i.e. if it isn't just a matter of replacing an
internal fan - freezer works fine, refrigerator section having
problems. Or maybe even if I can repair it. I'm not in immediate
desperation, I'm using an old shorty "student" model that will tide me
over but will want to get the big one fixed or replaced in the near
future.

I've read assertions that "new refrigerators are more efficient".
Looking through the archives I see some debate as to whether this is
true.

How are they more efficient? How much more efficient? With a new 18
cu. ft. no-frills top-freezer Hotpoint -vs- a 1988 no-frills top-
freezer Hotpoint how much of a difference am I likely to see in the
monthly electric bill? For example, if I were to find the problem with
my old one is relatively easy to remedy and manage to squeeze a few
more years of service out of it, how much less would I be spending
over those same years on a newer model if in fact it's even true?

buy used and hope that the fridge wasn't the jeffrey dahmer or edward teller fan club's
old fridge.

see these tags inside the floor models with a measure of "cost per
year" and comparative energy consumption, but have no idea if they're
remotely realistic, or are more like the old EPA gas-mileage ratings
that in no way reflected reality.

yeah, like those tv ads, "filmed on a closed circuit by professional children. please
keep adults away from this car and drink responsibly"

Where do you find the straight story on dependability? Is Consumer
Reports really the gospel?How does anyone do a meaningful reliability
test on an item with so many models and where it might take years to
prove itself a "lemon" under real-world daily use. I wonder if brand
name is a reliable indicator since manufacturing/corporate issues can
change over time, so a brand that was possibly once regarded as great
becomes crap. Further, I don't see much concensus regarding what
brands are good/bad. I'm more interested in rock-solid dependability
and longevity than a lot of features. I've never even had an ice-
maker. Still using plastic ice-cube trays.

even when hardly ever used, icemakers die in a few years. funny thing is well into the
80's even the plastic on the outside looked like the 80's icemakers. i imagine
icemaker guts in new fridges are the same old 80's garbage.

i don't use ice.

How would you find out the nitty-gritty on issues like where the
compressor for various models come from and what makes it great or
crap?

What's a good resource to learn DIY refrigerator diagnosis and repair?

imLIMITEDe, it's either refrigeration which i've never considered messing with, or it's
easy stuff (of which weirdest is only the defrost timer. the rest is obvious).

moving the fridge will break your back. so maybe the largest fridge
replacement expense is the medical bills :-)

no, actually i remove the innards and doors, and roll fridges strapped to hand truck on
shallow ramps out the door.


You can maybe save 75% on operating costs vs your old unit. Shop by
the Yellow Energy usage tag. a few years ago Sears were the most
efficient, my 19.5cuft unit uses apx $4.50 a month in electric
verified with a Kill A Watt meter, www.EnergyStar.com gives full
ratings of usage, it may take a while to find the page but its there.
You should buy a Kill A Watt meter and see what your old unit uses. I
would not repair the old one.

in ca, utility(?) issues a list, which i saw a few years ago. $ energy use of 8 year old
fridge was almost as good as new fridge. IIRC, even if you had a 15 year old fridge,
purchase cost of new fridge wasn't justifiable if repair of 15 yearold was more than
minor. (a pile of obnoxious minor repairs equals a bigger repair. examples: tearing
gaskets on both doors, bubbly rust where gasket "seals".) in my case, i was
comparing the existing 80's fridge (too damaged to repair) to a low mile (hardly even
"dirty") $125 4 year old fridge. i was only curious about running costs because the
benefit of the 4 year old fridge was undeniable :-)

either new or old fridge might be better than the other, if one fridge incurs terrible
ordeal to delint the coils and fan, etc.

the fat doors on newer fridges seem convenient, but are pigs.

--
No matter how dangerous nuclear power may or
may not be.....
Is it any more dangerous then what we are doing
now.....???

This tag line is generated by:
SLNG (Silly Little Nuclear Generator)

Doc wrote in news:1184066943.479704.325860@
22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com:

On Jul 9, 8:32 pm, "Lou" wrote:

Where do you find the straight story on dependability? Is Consumer
Reports really the gospel?How does anyone do a meaningful reliability
test on an item with so many models and where it might take years to
prove itself a "lemon" under real-world daily use.

If the thing lasts for years, I wonder how it can be considered a lemon?


If it craps out in say 4 years, as opposed to 25 years.


I appreciate the input.



Have a look around this guy's website. I subscribe to his newsletter (archives on site) and he's got a lot
of good appliance info:



http://www.davesrepair.com/index.html


J.