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#1
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R22 to 410: Need to replace line?
I've gotten conflicting advice on whether or not to replace the line
between inside and outside unit. Some say the current line with R22 can be purged and then used with 410. Others say no, can't be thoroughly cleaned and will cause problems down the road. Unit is a heat pump, if that matters. Any thoughts? |
#2
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R22 to 410: Need to replace line?
"GaryMichael" wrote in message ups.com... I've gotten conflicting advice on whether or not to replace the line between inside and outside unit. Some say the current line with R22 can be purged and then used with 410. Others say no, can't be thoroughly cleaned and will cause problems down the road. Unit is a heat pump, if that matters. Any thoughts? Just posted in another group... my comment is at the end. "Noon-Air" wrote in message . .. wrote in message ups.com... I have an older heat pump and am considering replacing it with a unit that uses R422. Replacing the line from outside to inside unit will be difficult and might involve carpentry and wall board work. A couple guys said the old line can be cleaned out, no need to replace. Others have said it must be replaced. Which is correct? If the lineset is correctly sized for the new equipment, it can be flushed, but its recommended by the manufacturers that when going from R-22 to R-410a, the lineset should always be replaced. Above is true, but I always like to run a new lineset with a complete system. |
#3
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R22 to 410: Need to replace line?
Check with your local HVAC contractor. In allot of cases when you go with a change of using a different refrigerant, most newer units have stepped up the size of the suction line from lets say a 7/8" to 1 1/8" line for proper oil return.
Plus the newer units use a different refrigerant oil so you do not want any of the older oil to mix with the new oil. You can flush out the old oil but it does cost allot of money to do so, -- Moe Jones HVAC Service Technician Energy Equalizers Inc. Houston, Texas www.EnergyEqualizers.com "GaryMichael" wrote in message ups.com... I've gotten conflicting advice on whether or not to replace the line between inside and outside unit. Some say the current line with R22 can be purged and then used with 410. Others say no, can't be thoroughly cleaned and will cause problems down the road. Unit is a heat pump, if that matters. Any thoughts? |
#4
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R22 to 410: Need to replace line?
Larger line for oil return??
Which crack jack box did you pull that one from?? "Moe Jones" wrote in message ... Check with your local HVAC contractor. In allot of cases when you go with a change of using a different refrigerant, most newer units have stepped up the size of the suction line from lets say a 7/8" to 1 1/8" line for proper oil return. Plus the newer units use a different refrigerant oil so you do not want any of the older oil to mix with the new oil. You can flush out the old oil but it does cost allot of money to do so, -- Moe Jones HVAC Service Technician Energy Equalizers Inc. Houston, Texas www.EnergyEqualizers.com "GaryMichael" wrote in message ups.com... I've gotten conflicting advice on whether or not to replace the line between inside and outside unit. Some say the current line with R22 can be purged and then used with 410. Others say no, can't be thoroughly cleaned and will cause problems down the road. Unit is a heat pump, if that matters. Any thoughts? |
#5
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R22 to 410: Need to replace line?
On Fri, 06 Jul 2007 06:20:10 -0700, GaryMichael
wrote: I've gotten conflicting advice on whether or not to replace the line between inside and outside unit. Some say the current line with R22 can be purged and then used with 410. Others say no, can't be thoroughly cleaned and will cause problems down the road. Unit is a heat pump, if that matters. Any thoughts? The thought that comes to mind is why change? tom @ www.FreelancingProjects.com |
#6
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R22 to 410: Need to replace line?
We just went from the old to the new freon, and they didn't change our
lines. They did a pressure test to make sure there were no leaks, and said the old lines were fine. We have not had any trouble at all. James |
#7
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R22 to 410: Need to replace line?
For those who 'need to know.' The [rub] comes from the "different types of
oil." The older refrigerant R-22 [Freon] uses mineral oil The newer refrigerant R-410a [Puron] uses a synthetic oil [PAG - poloyolyglycol]. The mineral oil from years of old is not compatible because of miscibility. The mineral oil tends to slug [thicken] under the newer refrigerant R-410a. It is highly recommended that "if" you use the older copper lines with the newer gas, you should be aware that the manufacturer recommends less than 5% of mineral oil be allowed to mix with the newer gas. This concentration can be tested with a refractometer. It is better to run new copper, but if you have to use the older lines...... 5% is the highest concentration of mix allowed. The larger suction line is needed with the newer refrigerant because of system capacity. If you choose to use a smaller refrigerant line, you system capacity will suffer. - Zyp "James" wrote in message . .. We just went from the old to the new freon, and they didn't change our lines. They did a pressure test to make sure there were no leaks, and said the old lines were fine. We have not had any trouble at all. James |
#8
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R22 to 410: Need to replace line?
I was very surprised when I saw what Coleman recommended for their:
Air Conditioning Condensing Units - 14 SEER Units 2 to 5 Ton, Single-Phase, R-22 Mfg. # Nom. Tons BtuH Cooling Max. Fuse Size Min. Circuit Amps Liquid Conn. Suction Fitting FRCS0241BF 2 24,000 20 12.1 3/8" 7/8" FRCS0301BF 2-1/2 30,000 20 14.9 3/8" 7/8" FRCS0361CD 3 36,000 25 18.1 3/8" 7/8" FRCS0421CE 3-1/2 42,000 30 17.8 3/8" 1-1/8" FRCS0481CE 4 48,000 35 20.6 3/8" 1-1/8" FRCS0601BG 5 60,000 50 31.8 3/8" 1-1/8" -- Moe Jones HVAC Service Technician Energy Equalizers Inc. Houston, Texas www.EnergyEqualizers.com "Zephyr" wrote in message m... For those who 'need to know.' The [rub] comes from the "different types of oil." The older refrigerant R-22 [Freon] uses mineral oil The newer refrigerant R-410a [Puron] uses a synthetic oil [PAG - poloyolyglycol]. The mineral oil from years of old is not compatible because of miscibility. The mineral oil tends to slug [thicken] under the newer refrigerant R-410a. It is highly recommended that "if" you use the older copper lines with the newer gas, you should be aware that the manufacturer recommends less than 5% of mineral oil be allowed to mix with the newer gas. This concentration can be tested with a refractometer. It is better to run new copper, but if you have to use the older lines...... 5% is the highest concentration of mix allowed. The larger suction line is needed with the newer refrigerant because of system capacity. If you choose to use a smaller refrigerant line, you system capacity will suffer. - Zyp "James" wrote in message . .. We just went from the old to the new freon, and they didn't change our lines. They did a pressure test to make sure there were no leaks, and said the old lines were fine. We have not had any trouble at all. James |
#9
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R22 to 410: Need to replace line?
FWIW: There's nothing wrong with Colemen. And, the line sizing is fairly correct. Although on the 2-ton size 7/8" o.d. is a bit much. I think it likely goes with stocking less sizes in the warehouse. 7/8" is good to 3 or 4 Ton capacity depending on line length. [You can turn to Proper Piping Practices manuals for the refrigerant of choice.] You'll find that 5/8" is good for 2-Tons. 3/4" for 3-Tons. 7/8" 4-Tons, and 1-1/8" is good for 5 Tons for air conditioning applications using R-22 or R-410a.
If the suction return line is too large, you may have oil return problems depending if the evaporator coil is installed below the condensing unit. This is why a professional HVAC/R contractor is needed. He can generally make the best choices for the particular installation. One that will provide years of trouble free operation. -- Zyp "Moe Jones" wrote in message ... I was very surprised when I saw what Coleman recommended for their: Air Conditioning Condensing Units - 14 SEER Units 2 to 5 Ton, Single-Phase, R-22 Mfg. # Nom. Tons BtuH Cooling Max. Fuse Size Min. Circuit Amps Liquid Conn. Suction Fitting FRCS0241BF 2 24,000 20 12.1 3/8" 7/8" FRCS0301BF 2-1/2 30,000 20 14.9 3/8" 7/8" FRCS0361CD 3 36,000 25 18.1 3/8" 7/8" FRCS0421CE 3-1/2 42,000 30 17.8 3/8" 1-1/8" FRCS0481CE 4 48,000 35 20.6 3/8" 1-1/8" FRCS0601BG 5 60,000 50 31.8 3/8" 1-1/8" -- Moe Jones HVAC Service Technician Energy Equalizers Inc. Houston, Texas www.EnergyEqualizers.com "Zephyr" wrote in message m... For those who 'need to know.' The [rub] comes from the "different types of oil." The older refrigerant R-22 [Freon] uses mineral oil The newer refrigerant R-410a [Puron] uses a synthetic oil [PAG - poloyolyglycol]. The mineral oil from years of old is not compatible because of miscibility. The mineral oil tends to slug [thicken] under the newer refrigerant R-410a. It is highly recommended that "if" you use the older copper lines with the newer gas, you should be aware that the manufacturer recommends less than 5% of mineral oil be allowed to mix with the newer gas. This concentration can be tested with a refractometer. It is better to run new copper, but if you have to use the older lines...... 5% is the highest concentration of mix allowed. The larger suction line is needed with the newer refrigerant because of system capacity. If you choose to use a smaller refrigerant line, you system capacity will suffer. - Zyp "James" wrote in message . .. We just went from the old to the new freon, and they didn't change our lines. They did a pressure test to make sure there were no leaks, and said the old lines were fine. We have not had any trouble at all. James |
#10
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R22 to 410: Need to replace line?
"Zephyr" writes:
It is highly recommended that "if" you use the older copper lines with the newer gas, you should be aware that the manufacturer recommends less than 5% of mineral oil be allowed to mix with the newer gas. This concentration can be tested with a refractometer. It is better to run new copper, but if you have to use the older lines...... 5% is the highest concentration of mix allowed. In cases where it's difficult to run new lines, can the old ones be flushed with solvent to remove the old oil? Dave |
#11
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R22 to 410: Need to replace line?
"Dave Martindale" wrote in message ... "Zephyr" writes: It is highly recommended that "if" you use the older copper lines with the newer gas, you should be aware that the manufacturer recommends less than 5% of mineral oil be allowed to mix with the newer gas. This concentration can be tested with a refractometer. It is better to run new copper, but if you have to use the older lines...... 5% is the highest concentration of mix allowed. In cases where it's difficult to run new lines, can the old ones be flushed with solvent to remove the old oil? Dave Yes |
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