I have a 20 year old washer in the garage next to the dryer. In
between them there is a three prong outlet that the washer is plugged
into (the dryer, of course, has it's own).

The plug on the washer is two prong. I always just assumed if it came
that way, it didn't need to be grounded. It wasn't until recently I
began to realize this was a little strange. I can't move heavy things
so I never really have seen the back of the washer until recently when
it was moved. Well, on the back is a wire wrapped up with a little
flat connector thingy that I assume is the ground wire!

My guess is that this was done so if you had a two prong outlet that
was groundable by the plate screw, you would be able to use the washer
by screwing that end of the wire to the screw on the plate. Is that
correct? Is that a common thing (at least back then)?

This is an early '60s house with some grounded outlets, but most not.
Funny enough, the one there is a 3 prong one. So if I connect that
wire to the screw on the 3 prong outlet, will it be grouned?

I'm not very knowledgeable in electrical , so responses in non-techno
babble would be appreciated

Also, how dangerous is having a washer ungrounded?

--
John

On May 26, 8:18?am, John Ross wrote:
I have a 20 year old washer in the garage next to the dryer. In
between them there is a three prong outlet that the washer is plugged
into (the dryer, of course, has it's own).

The plug on the washer is two prong. I always just assumed if it came
that way, it didn't need to be grounded. It wasn't until recently I
began to realize this was a little strange. I can't move heavy things
so I never really have seen the back of the washer until recently when
it was moved. Well, on the back is a wire wrapped up with a little
flat connector thingy that I assume is the ground wire!

My guess is that this was done so if you had a two prong outlet that
was groundable by the plate screw, you would be able to use the washer
by screwing that end of the wire to the screw on the plate. Is that
correct? Is that a common thing (at least back then)?

This is an early '60s house with some grounded outlets, but most not.
Funny enough, the one there is a 3 prong one. So if I connect that
wire to the screw on the 3 prong outlet, will it be grouned?

I'm not very knowledgeable in electrical , so responses in non-techno
babble would be appreciated

Also, how dangerous is having a washer ungrounded?

--
John

yeah connect that green wire to the physical box somehow.

i had a washer like that years ago it was about 40 years old when it
died and could of killed me, it developed a internal motor short and
electrified the case of the washer

it had been bought to wash my diapers, i felt bad getting rid of it
but couldnt get parts.......

fix yours before you get shocked

wrote in message
it had been bought to wash my diapers, i felt bad getting rid of it
but couldnt get parts.......

Now that you can buy Depends, no need for the washer

" wrote in news:1180184500.907449.21160
@u30g2000hsc.googlegroups.com:

On May 26, 8:18?am, John Ross wrote:
I have a 20 year old washer in the garage next to the dryer. In
between them there is a three prong outlet that the washer is plugged
into (the dryer, of course, has it's own).

The plug on the washer is two prong. I always just assumed if it came
that way, it didn't need to be grounded. It wasn't until recently I
began to realize this was a little strange. I can't move heavy things
so I never really have seen the back of the washer until recently when
it was moved. Well, on the back is a wire wrapped up with a little
flat connector thingy that I assume is the ground wire!

My guess is that this was done so if you had a two prong outlet that
was groundable by the plate screw, you would be able to use the washer
by screwing that end of the wire to the screw on the plate. Is that
correct? Is that a common thing (at least back then)?

This is an early '60s house with some grounded outlets, but most not.
Funny enough, the one there is a 3 prong one. So if I connect that
wire to the screw on the 3 prong outlet, will it be grouned?

I'm not very knowledgeable in electrical , so responses in non-techno
babble would be appreciated

Also, how dangerous is having a washer ungrounded?

--
John

yeah connect that green wire to the physical box somehow.

i had a washer like that years ago it was about 40 years old when it
died and could of killed me, it developed a internal motor short and
electrified the case of the washer

it had been bought to wash my diapers, i felt bad getting rid of it
but couldnt get parts.......

fix yours before you get shocked




fix yours before you get shocked

....and it knocks the **** out of you and you need diapers!

John Ross wrote:
I have a 20 year old washer in the garage next to the dryer. In
between them there is a three prong outlet that the washer is plugged
into (the dryer, of course, has it's own).

The plug on the washer is two prong. ...[but] on the back is a wire ... with a little
flat connector thingy that I assume is the ground wire!

My guess is that this was done so if you had a two prong outlet that
was groundable by the plate screw, you would be able to use the washer
by screwing that end of the wire to the screw on the plate. Is that
correct? Is that a common thing (at least back then)?

This is an early '60s house with some grounded outlets, but most not.
Funny enough, the one there is a 3 prong one. So if I connect that
wire to the screw on the 3 prong outlet, will it be grouned?
....

Good guess, you're correct and yes, at least moderately common...

Well, at least the odds are good that the grounded outlet receptacle
is on a grounded circuit, but check to make sure -- a previous owner
could have replaced a two-prong outlet w/ a 3-prong one simply for the
convenience of having the place to plug in a 3-prong cord.

If it does have the ground wire, and a metal box (likely given age,
but plastic is still possible), then if the ground wire from the
circuit is properly attached, the box will be grounded and the plate
screw will suffice. If it is plastic box, that won't work as the box
will isolate the mounting strap and you'll have to arrange a jumper to
somewhere else. If the water piping is metal and is the house
grounding as would be pretty common in that time frame, then a clamp
around the nearest pipe would suffice.

It's not a danger _unless_ there's a failure somewhere that allows a
hot conductor to make contact w/ the frame -- that's the purpose of
the ground.

It's not a danger _unless_ there's a failure somewhere that allows a
hot conductor to make contact w/ the frame -- that's the purpose of
the ground.


Leakage from the windings to the frames of electric motors in large
appliances is quiet common and the reason why there are such strict
grounding rules. Air conditioners are notorious for this, but it can
also occur in washing machines and dryers. You don't really want to
claim that an ungrounded washing machine can somehow be considered
"safe".

In the 1960's, the manufactures of washing machines included an extra
ground wire and a strap for the cold water pipe to insure grounding
although it was later determined that this violated the single point
ground doctrine if the device was already grounded through the plug.

I read somewhere that this might still be a code requirement in
Canada. ??? Perhaps someone can clarify...

On 2007-05-26, Beachcomber wrote:

In the 1960's, the manufactures of washing machines included an
extra ground wire and a strap for the cold water pipe to insure
grounding although it was later determined that this violated the
single point ground doctrine if the device was already grounded
through the plug.

What's wrong with having a loop within the Equipment Grounding system,
as long as the EGC are interconnected to the service neutral at only
one point?

Cheers, Wayne

On May 26, 11:25 am, (Beachcomber) wrote:
It's not a danger _unless_ there's a failure somewhere that allows a
hot conductor to make contact w/ the frame -- that's the purpose of
the ground.

Leakage from the windings to the frames of electric motors in large
appliances is quiet common and the reason why there are such strict
grounding rules. Air conditioners are notorious for this, but it can
also occur in washing machines and dryers. You don't really want to
claim that an ungrounded washing machine can somehow be considered
"safe".

It still takes a failure to have a problem...while the mechanism you
pose is possible, certainly nothing I've ever seen flagged as
prevalent...in OP's case, while I certainly agreed it should have the
ground attached, it's pretty clear he's had 20 years w/o any
significant problem--that qualifies as pretty safe in my book.
Granted it only takes a failure to now occur to cause a problem, the
chances are pretty good it won't happen the next five minutes until he
can attach the ground wire...

On Sat, 26 May 2007 16:25:33 GMT, (Beachcomber)
wrote:


In the 1960's, the manufactures of washing machines included an extra
ground wire and a strap for the cold water pipe to insure grounding
although it was later determined that this violated the single point
ground doctrine if the device was already grounded through the plug.

Why would there be such a doctrine? What if the ground through the
plug fails, but the other two wires don't. One wire has to fail
first: it might be the ground. Or, what if the ground fails
between the outlet and the fuse or breaker box.
Or what if the outlet has 3 slots,
and will accept a 3-prong plug, the outlet is not grounded at all.

Why shouldn't there be a second ground?

It's not a religious doctrine that was revealed by God, so shouldn't
it yield when there is a good reason.

I read somewhere that this might still be a code requirement in
Canada. ??? Perhaps someone can clarify...

dont GFCI washing machines, or dishwashers

they will nuisance trip.

wrote:

dont GFCI washing machines, or dishwashers

they will nuisance trip.

Funerals are a nuisance, too.
As you said:
"i had a washer ... could of killed me, it developed a
internal motor short and electrified the case of the washer"
If the GFCI trips, fix or replace the appliance.

dpb wrote:
John Ross wrote:
I have a 20 year old washer in the garage next to the dryer. In
between them there is a three prong outlet that the washer is plugged
into (the dryer, of course, has it's own).

The plug on the washer is two prong. ...[but] on the back is a wire ... with a little
flat connector thingy that I assume is the ground wire!

My guess is that this was done so if you had a two prong outlet that
was groundable by the plate screw, you would be able to use the washer
by screwing that end of the wire to the screw on the plate. Is that
correct? Is that a common thing (at least back then)?

This is an early '60s house with some grounded outlets, but most not.
Funny enough, the one there is a 3 prong one. So if I connect that
wire to the screw on the 3 prong outlet, will it be grouned?
...

Good guess, you're correct and yes, at least moderately common...

Well, at least the odds are good that the grounded outlet receptacle
is on a grounded circuit, but check to make sure -- a previous owner
could have replaced a two-prong outlet w/ a 3-prong one simply for the
convenience of having the place to plug in a 3-prong cord.

If it does have the ground wire, and a metal box (likely given age,
but plastic is still possible), then if the ground wire from the
circuit is properly attached, the box will be grounded and the plate
screw will suffice. If it is plastic box, that won't work as the box
will isolate the mounting strap and you'll have to arrange a jumper to
somewhere else. If the water piping is metal and is the house
grounding as would be pretty common in that time frame, then a clamp
around the nearest pipe would suffice.

It's not a danger _unless_ there's a failure somewhere that allows a
hot conductor to make contact w/ the frame -- that's the purpose of
the ground.

I forgot to mention 2 things:

1. There is another plug on the receptacle (this one is a normal 3
prong one). Does having that ground wire attached to the screw and
having this other one plugged in normally cause any problems?

2. The washer plug is the one removed in the garage when some tool
needs to be plugged in. So, with the washer 2 prong plugged in plus
it's separate ground wire screwed on the plate screw, when I unplug
the washer plug the ground will still be connected. If I then plug in
something else with a 3 prong plug, is that a problem? In other words,
I want to be able to unplug the washer plug, but now the ground to the
washer will be permanently attached to the outlet (and still there
when something else is plugged in).

thanks for all the replies

--
John

On May 27, 3:54 am, John Ross wrote:
dpb wrote:
John Ross wrote:
I have a 20 year old washer in the garage next to the dryer. In
between them there is a three prong outlet that the washer is plugged
into (the dryer, of course, has it's own).

The plug on the washer is two prong. ...[but] on the back is a wire ... with a little
flat connector thingy that I assume is the ground wire!

My guess is that this was done so if you had a two prong outlet that
was groundable by the plate screw, you would be able to use the washer
by screwing that end of the wire to the screw on the plate. Is that
correct? Is that a common thing (at least back then)?

This is an early '60s house with some grounded outlets, but most not.
Funny enough, the one there is a 3 prong one. So if I connect that
wire to the screw on the 3 prong outlet, will it be grouned?
...

Good guess, you're correct and yes, at least moderately common...

Well, at least the odds are good that the grounded outlet receptacle
is on a grounded circuit, but check to make sure -- a previous owner
could have replaced a two-prong outlet w/ a 3-prong one simply for the
convenience of having the place to plug in a 3-prong cord.

If it does have the ground wire, and a metal box (likely given age,
but plastic is still possible), then if the ground wire from the
circuit is properly attached, the box will be grounded and the plate
screw will suffice. If it is plastic box, that won't work as the box
will isolate the mounting strap and you'll have to arrange a jumper to
somewhere else. If the water piping is metal and is the house
grounding as would be pretty common in that time frame, then a clamp
around the nearest pipe would suffice.

It's not a danger _unless_ there's a failure somewhere that allows a
hot conductor to make contact w/ the frame -- that's the purpose of
the ground.

I forgot to mention 2 things:

1. There is another plug on the receptacle (this one is a normal 3
prong one). Does having that ground wire attached to the screw and
having this other one plugged in normally cause any problems?

2. The washer plug is the one removed in the garage when some tool
needs to be plugged in. So, with the washer 2 prong plugged in plus
it's separate ground wire screwed on the plate screw, when I unplug
the washer plug the ground will still be connected. If I then plug in
something else with a 3 prong plug, is that a problem? In other words,
I want to be able to unplug the washer plug, but now the ground to the
washer will be permanently attached to the outlet (and still there
when something else is plugged in).

No and no...leaving grounds connected is not a problem electrically.

Sounds as if would be convenienent to add another grounded outlet,
though. Or, if this is surface mounted, replace the duplex box w/ a
quadplex and the second outlet there might not be difficult.

In general, though, having the tool outlet in the neighborhood of the
washer/dryer station sounds like an inconvenience well worth relieving
unless you simply don't use an electric tool more than once or twice a
year.

John Ross wrote:
I have a 20 year old washer in the garage next to the dryer. In
between them there is a three prong outlet that the washer is plugged
into (the dryer, of course, has it's own).

The plug on the washer is two prong. I always just assumed if it came
that way, it didn't need to be grounded. It wasn't until recently I
began to realize this was a little strange. I can't move heavy things
so I never really have seen the back of the washer until recently when
it was moved. Well, on the back is a wire wrapped up with a little
flat connector thingy that I assume is the ground wire!

My guess is that this was done so if you had a two prong outlet that
was groundable by the plate screw, you would be able to use the washer
by screwing that end of the wire to the screw on the plate. Is that
correct? Is that a common thing (at least back then)?

This is an early '60s house with some grounded outlets, but most not.
Funny enough, the one there is a 3 prong one. So if I connect that
wire to the screw on the 3 prong outlet, will it be grouned?

I'm not very knowledgeable in electrical , so responses in non-techno
babble would be appreciated

Also, how dangerous is having a washer ungrounded?

--
John



It's very important that the washer is either grounded or protected by a
GFCI. (it doesn't really need both, but it wouldn't hurt)

If the cord is only 2 wires, and the receptacle is grounded, run a
separate wire from the washer frame to the center screw on the receptacle.

Be aware that an old washing machine might constantly trip a GFCI if
there is any leakage in the motor. So once you connect the ground wire
you might start having problems -- but if so, that means you had a very
dangerous condition before and just didn't know it.

Bob